Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Pierre Novellie (Part Two)

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Emily and Raymond are in Ealing with our wonderful friend - the comedian Pierre Novellie!We chat about Pierre’s engagement and upcoming wedding - we find out whether he went down on one knee and how he possibly surprised his fiancee TOO much. We also find out why Pierre prefers podcasting to radio, why overthinking can lead to you living a richer life and we find out about his upcoming Edinburgh show - You Sit There, I’ll Stand Here. You can catch him at the Edinburgh Fringe from 28th July - 24th August at 19:05 at Monkey Barrel 3. Buy your tickets here!Follow @pierrenovellie on InstagramYou can listen to Frank, Pierre and Emily on the Frank Off The Radio podcast which is available on all podcast platforms. You can also listen to Pierre on BudPod which he co-hosts with Glenn Moore - and his brand new podcast Button Boys, a gaming podcast he hosts with Glenn and Sarah Keyworth! Order Pierre’s brilliant book Why Can’t I Just Enjoy Things? A Comedian’s Guide To Autism here - https://geni.us/pierrenovelliepb Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emThank you to Dex Roy for his production support on this episodeWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Pierre Novelli. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and do book your tickets to see Pierre at the Edinburgh Festival in his brand new show, You Sit There, I'll Stand Here, because this man is honestly brilliant live. I'd also love it if you gave us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Pierre and Ray Ray.

I want to discuss something else that's happening in your life, which is very exciting. Oh yeah. You're going to get married? Yes. You proposed December 30th Yes

Yes I did Did you do it in a very romantic way I think you did do it quite romantic I made a sort of mistake of achieving 100% surprise I think the ideal amount of surprise Is probably sort of 80% You know that

So she wasn't expecting it No absolutely zero Yeah no expectation of it Like it was in the air We discussed it It wasn't, it shouldn't, Alex Keely, the comedian, who's a friend of mine who's a very good routine about how it should never be a surprise. You should have discussed marriage and engagement at least a bit.

Yeah. But I mean, a surprise in the sense that it wasn't like, you know, oh, we're going on to Paris, get your nails done, you know, one of those that people do. It was a hundred percent surprise. Well, you're not very, and always your partner, boy done good, you know, the sort of Facebook. No, no, no, no. Do you know what I mean? No, no.

Posting about it, no. Sometimes my fiancé will say, oh, you don't post me on your Instagram, and I sort of go, yeah, but I don't, you know, some things have to be for you, you know. Oh, that's really lovely, Pierre. You think, but things that I think are lovely, other people think are... I think that more and more as I get older, I do feel that the more someone posts about how brilliant their relationship, is, the more I worry for them a bit.

Also, I mean, it is a business account. Like, I use it to try and sell tickets to my comedy shows, really. But I also think, I think, I understand everyone is a brand now, and your relationship is part of that. And I don't mind that. I understand that. If you're monetising it, that's fine. But I think there are some things, look, everyone is different.

And if you wouldn't feel comfortable, I respect that is all I'd say. I think as well, maybe it's partly to do with being autistic, maybe it's not, but you need to be a certain type of person with being comfortable in a situation where every moment, even at home in private, is a potential public moment. Right. To sort of go, oh, quick, get a picture for Instagram of this private birthday party or meaningful event. A, I don't think like that. My brain's not good at being on social media. I'm not good at it. It's a talent.

It's a very specific talent. and I'm no good at it. No, I'm not really either. I think because I don't like the idea of publishing, putting out into the world anything that I haven't double-checked, triple-checked and curated. The idea of just posting up something which might be shitty, I would never...

Do you know what you mean? Or there's a spelling mistake or it's blurry or... And that's absolute anathema to social media. If you think like that... Yeah, you're done. You'll never work. And that's why I don't really... Also, I want a clearly delineated break.

I don't get weekends in my life because I do comedy. I'm never completely at work and I'm never completely off work. That's a stand-up. That's the deal you make. But I do need to know for sure that if I'm at home in private, I'm not still having to think about selling tickets. But it's interesting now because this whole thing is, oh, you've got to post at 8 o'clock in the morning.

and I think there's a part of me that resents that as well. But I think, but this is my private time, 11 at night or 7 in the morning. I'm still expected to work. I still can't sort of believe the idea that in the past, and by past, I guess I mean, genuinely just 20 years ago, 15, not that many years ago, you would be a successful comedian, say, and it would all just be done by someone else. A PR. A PR or just like there would be these magazines. magazines that people would buy and actually read. And if you put things in them, they would sell.

Because people would look at them with their eyes. Their money would change hands. Well, it used to be if you were an author or a comic or anything that actually you didn't have to, if you didn't want to, you didn't have to get involved in that. You just turned up for the interview on TV or radio. Your publicist told you where to be and that was it. But you didn't have to personally be proactive about that or get involved in the business end. But that's just not the case anymore.

be that you're, if you were a writer or a comedian, your job was the writing or the comedy. No, it's not anymore. No, you've got seven or eight jobs. 24-7 Brown, my friend. Go back to the proposal then. So you don't have to, I understand that's a private moment. You don't have to say too much, but were you pleased with how it went? Well, she said yes. That's a start. I'm not allowed to know if you went down on one knee. in the morning lying in bed, so there was no need to... I love that. I could have done that, but it would have looked mad, I think.

I love that. That's so nice. I wanted to do it by a lake, but the lake was not good enough. It was a bad lake, yeah. We were visiting her family up north, so I didn't know the area. She must have been so thrilled, Pierre. I hope so. I think so. I looked up this lake on Google Maps, because I thought we could go to the lake.

And on Google Maps, it looked pretty good. You know, you have pictures, swans and so on, willows, you know, a good lake. We went on a walk, and I thought, I'll peep the lake, do a reconnaissance. The lake was fine, but the only way to access it as a human was a kind of badly tarmaced pavement and a plexiglass bus shelter with a near motorway going, and, boom, cars going by. You can't do it there. And there were a bunch of kids throwing bread at the duck's over arm. It's no good.

Like a gang of sort of feral bread-hirling children. And I thought not here. I've got your wedding to look forward to you. Yes, yeah, next year. Oh, don't sit me on the crazy aunt table. I'll sit you on the culturally refined table. Don't sit me next to a man with a multicolored tie and eccentric. Do you know what I mean?

Someone who looks like a composer. I know these types. I wonder if there would even be anyone who could fit that category. No, maybe not. Possibly not. I wonder. There'll be lots of South Africans about, though. You'll see how tall my whole extended family are. Lots of Novelli's in the wild. Some, yeah, yeah. I can't wait.

Lumbering family. Some coming from South Africa, which is very good at them. Mm. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm looking forward to that. And we should also say, you and I have started working together on a podcast. Yes. With Frank Skinner, because, again, last time we met to do this, we'd just been fired. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. I think we both, even though I'd obviously be doing it a lot longer, I felt you were sad as well.

I didn't feel it was something you took lightly. No, yeah. I mean, it was very unexpected. That was an example of I asked you something and you didn't know. You thought, was she asking me a question? Yes, exactly. I wasn't sure. I understand that.

I thought it might have been a statement. Because I didn't phrase it as a question. It was a statement I also agreed with. So I thought perhaps no more needs to be said. perhaps we shall pass over so what I should have said to make that clear is something like were you very upset when we were fired from absolute radio

not very well was I very upset very upset I was upset I wasn't considering joining the priesthood over it but it was bad news it was definitely a a terrible bump in the road you know

It was a good thing. I mean, our ratings were going up and up and up. I think I was more, I was also really upset. I was just really missing. Just that weekly check-in with you guys, with you and Frank. And it's longer time to talk as well, because, of course, it's five minutes on air and then five minutes off air with songs and news.

So it was actually more spread out than podcasting is. There was more time in total. Yeah. But everything's changing with... But fortunately, we found a way around it. Yes. And then we met up... I want to say it was like October last year.

And Frank suggested we do... It wasn't just Frank suggesting it. It was a collective decision that we do a podcast. Which we've been doing. Yes. Yes, yes. It's Spiritland. The heavily insulated wooden Japanese-style listening bar.

Do you like doing the podcast more than the radio show? Do you think in some ways you prefer podcasting? I definitely prefer podcasting. Why is that? More creative freedom, more casual. I've trained first as a podcaster. By the time I was on the radio, I'd already been podcasting for years. So I had to almost revert more to that kind of more tight.

You're listening to, you know. Ah. A terrible disaster. Bye-bye. On-air radio is very, very different. And you can't say certain things, you can't go too off the rails. You can't say anything that lasts longer than five minutes. Right.

So it's much more restricted and it's a different art form or craft. Yeah, yeah. I do prefer podcasting. It's more on your own terms. Right. Whereas on the radio you've got, you know, this whole structure around you and the advertisers don't want you to talk about Julius Caesar anymore or whatever it is.

Yes. But I do feel, it's weird when you think of the chemistry between certain people and why it works because you, Frank and I individually couldn't be more different in so many respects. Yeah, but there's a core of similarity I think which is media, and by media I don't mean, you know, the media. media as in film, film art, TV, books, media nerds. I think there's also a shared sensibility. Yeah. And not just in terms of what we know, but how we view the world.

People who notice things about films. Yes. Or books or... But that feels a bit more factual to me. Do you mean that feels more like what we know? Whereas I wonder in terms of who we are as people rather than what we know. Yeah. I feel who we are as people. It's interesting, what is that shared thing? Because that's really why you connect with people. There are some people who care about very different things to you. I think it's to do with the noticing though. Because... But that's more just a curiosity. That's not knowing things about film. No, no, no. I think if you're the kind of person who watches a film or a play or reads a book thoughtfully, you're like that in your whole life. There's no one who is thoughtful and curious just. in the cinema and then they go back to being a complete idiot outside of this.

It's very, very rare. So if you're like that, you'll like that in everything. And I think that's a shortcut to figuring out if you're going to like someone. But what is that quality? That's not, that's maybe that is a curiosity. It's curiosity looking for more than is obvious. Right. Looking deeper into stuff.

I think that also comes to a certain amount of anxiety. If you overthink about things, you're an anxious person, but sometimes if you overthink about something, you discover things. So it's not a tool you necessarily want to put down. It's just a double-edged sword to slightly mix metaphors. So your overthinking makes you an anxious person. Hello.

Hello. But your overthinking also means that you noticed all that interesting stuff in that piece of media you consumed. You noticed that your friend actually wasn't having a good time talking to that other person in conversation or you picked up on some hidden, you know, you lead a richer life, but a more anxious life. There's always a cast.

Here's a question, and you don't have to answer this, if it makes you feel uncomfortable. What did you get wrong about me when you first met me? Hmm. Oh. More things that you do are deliberate than natural than I think. natural than I thought. There's some people in comedy or radio hosting who do things naturally who if you said to them, well, why did you say that to that person or why did you decide to move on from this topic? They'll go, what do you mean? They're just a natural. Whereas I think you're more able, you're more in control of what that is and aware of it. But you don't know but until you

meet someone. But I knew you had a very artsy family background. So I thought you maybe were just one of these people that's just naturally a broadcaster, naturally a, but it's more, it is more and more like a stand-ups brain. Really? Yeah, I think so. Stand-ups are not all of them, but a lot of them are mainly conscious. We know that Rob Beckett prepares for a big game by having a lovely big sleep, which blows my mind.

And I'm not an over-preparer at all by the standards of, say, my friend Glenn or Phil. They sit with little notebooks and agonize much more than I do. But even I'm much more of an anxious overthinker planner than a big sleep, you know. would require. Yeah, so I would say, because you weren't a stand-up, I didn't have a category for you. And I hadn't read your book at that point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just sort of vaguely knew, like, the arts or, so I sort of, I thought, dilettante. I don't even to say dilettante, but there's a, sometimes you go, is this a, is this a, is this a, a, to what extent is this a combination of sense of humor and charisma or wit?

Some people are just charismatic, but they're not witty. It's not the same. So I know people who are purely charismatic and not witty, but people will say, if you say to them, is that guy really witty? They'll go, yeah. What they mean is he's very charismatic and possibly quite handsome. He's not witty. You just nodded a lot while he was talking because he seemed really confident.

You know, it's different. Interesting. Yeah, it's different proportions. Whereas, yeah, I'd say you'd tackle these things much more in conversation like on air on the radio. and much more like the stand-up things of conversation and just timing and things like that. Like where is this going and yeah, well that's the end of that and we'll introduce a new topic now. Whereas you know as well as I do, you sometimes have guests where they haven't picked up on the secret signal that it's time to talk about a new thing now actually. You know.

Well, I should tell you what I got wrong. You thought I was Dutch. What I've certainly learnt is that how important. it is to spell things out to you. And how I realize now sometimes, certainly when you first met me, I'm someone who relies a lot on, I suppose, the social contract and nuance and the worst kind of British middle-class politeness of not saying what you mean.

Yes. And I really like being with someone like you, because sometimes it's great when you're just a truthful and direct. It saves a lot of time. Yeah, and I feel I've realised with you that certainly when I first met you, I think sometimes you were probably smiling, sullately thinking, what the fuck does she mean by this? Is she being polite?

Yeah, I don't know what this is driving at. When she says, you know, I would give you a lift sometimes saying from the radio show and instead of saying, you might say, is that okay, instead of saying, yes, it's absolutely fine, I am going in that direction. It is not out of my way. Yeah. I think you understand. language like that, whereas I think I'd say, don't think anything of it or something.

That would be an example of how that might leave you thinking, what does she mean? The way I got around that growing up, where people go, yeah, it's fine. And it wasn't fine. It was an inconvenience. Or maybe it was, but they'll never say. They'll just say it's fine. My strategy was to go, if I take people at their word, at least I've got that in the kind of, in the courtroom situation in your mind. I can at least say, they did say it was fine in my defence.

Whereas interpreting and constantly questioning and stuff just made my anxiety worse. So my choice was to be sort of quite a bluff person. Yes. And to lead a better life or to be a very trying to get it socially correct person and to live life like a kind of anxious courtier. It's constantly going, constantly going, but may I sit by the bishop? Perhaps it would be wrong. I can't live like that.

I just have to accept. I have to accept blundering and the costs of blundering and just accepting people at their word. Yeah, it's a cost-sunk, it's a cost calculation thing. Oh, I mean, my biography could be called the, my autobiography could be called the anxious courtier. In fact, it will be the next month because it's so great.

Yeah, so you just go, at least if I take people at their word, I can say that I've done that. That's something. Because then it is at least partially on them to not say what, to say what they mean or whatever. It doesn't often work that, especially in a society where people don't say what they mean, but it's something. I can satisfy myself with it anyway. I think the thing I struggle with more as I get older is this suppression of feelings.

I mean, and it's interesting, I think partly the reason we get on is I think I do express my feelings in a different way. I'm much more emotional, and I'm more likely to cry or respond in that way. But it's still, I see that as that's an honest representation of how I'm feeling. This is it. It's very clear. Right. That's interesting. People who are very emotional, that I can, I mean, I find the intensity of it stressful, maybe.

I'm sorry, because you probably had to deal with my intensity of emotion. Yours, I've had, there's been people who I have had to deal with much more intense, much more stressful. Don't worry. No, but I did, like a few times I've been having a bad day and I've maybe been a bit tearful. But that's, no, but that's fine. But the thing is, like, in a way, it would be more stressful for me to be in a situation that I can't read. So yes. So if I was sulking or being passive aggressive.

Yes, yes. That's impossible. I can't do that. I can't deal with that anymore either. But if you say, okay, this person is very intense. But if I know what they're in what direction, yes, I'm not delighted about the level of intensity. But at least I know where we're sailing. You know, at least I know where we're going.

You'll never not know where you're going with me, yeah. That's the thing I think, you know when I said what surprised me most? I think how much I adore you as a friend. I don't think I ever thought I would get on so well with you. No, great, yeah. Well, you don't know, do you really? I really like you, Pierre. And I always liked you, but I, oh, there's a dog's come along to break the embarrassing emotional.

Is that embarrassing for you when I say that? No. Are you sure? No, I don't, I'm worried about getting my response correct. Oh, so stupid. But I'm not embarrassed. It doesn't need a response. I don't need a response to that because it's not transactional, I don't know.

I think you can say to someone, I really appreciate your friendship. Yeah. Well, likewise for what it's worth, but yes. Yeah. I didn't realize you were going to become such an important friend, and I like that. Yeah. And there's something lovely that we have working with. with Frank. It's the most eccentric dysfunctional family ever and that's why I like it.

Yeah, it's good. I think yeah it is quite a quite a solid and unique little triangle. Right come on Ray. Oh that's a cutie. Lovely freshly groomed dog there. Raymond's a friend here. Oh yeah. There must be a certain terrain where Raymond picks up more sort of debris. Yes. Normally that's why when I take him to the groomers that's what they do is groom him sufficiently. Keep him slightly above hovering. Yes, although last time, I love my groomers, but I've got to be honest, a little longer than I'd have liked last time.

They thought you just wanted a trim? Me, yes. Come here. Has he ever been sort of shaved down to his bare bones? No, because I like him to look nice. Yeah. And that would look horrible. So, you're going off to Edinburgh, and I shall miss you because you won't be around for our

prodigons. Yes, yeah, off to the fringe. This is your new show. Yes. Which is called... You sit there, I'll stand here. Why is it called that? I think it's a funny, sort of like the way an alien would describe stand up.

Well, you all sit there and I stand here, and that's how this works. Yes. Because... Or someone with autism. Well, indeed, yeah. And it is sometimes called Wrong Planet Syndrome. Ah. Well, Asperger's was back when it was called Asperger's.

but just consult chapter three of the book. Did you do your poo-poo? There you go. I just have to check his bottom. Look away, please. That's just grass in there. Very good boy, that was a lovely big poo. Can you not take that and use it out of context, please?

That was Raymond, I was talking to it. Yes, so your show, yeah? Yes, it's much more of a sort of observation. stand-up show, the last three shows were sort of more about something. Yes. This one is about something, but I don't know. I just thought, but look, frankly, they make you choose the title in February when the show doesn't exist yet.

Yeah. So you could be a real hostage to fortune if you call it, you know, a comedy about... My marriage, which is going very well. Indeed, yeah. Not in your case, by the way. I might say that again. No, no, no, that's fine. I'm not married yet.

Yeah. I mean, the people who have it the worst of the satirists, like, you know, Matt Ford and things. Yes. There was that one year where by the time the fringe came around we were sort of three different Prime Ministers in and the amount of, I can't imagine the amount of rewriting. So you do have to try and come up with a title that's simultaneously vague but appealing or interesting and that's not easy. So we'll see.

But you like being on stage better than anything else, don't you? Yeah, if I know what I'm doing. I wouldn't say, I would miss it if I didn't do it, definitely. It's definitely a need, but it's less of a need than it was, I think. Do you know what I've worked out? You talk about executive dysfunction as being something that sort of goes hand in hand with neurodivergency. Yes. And that's something I relate to.

Yes. But I think one of the reasons why I suspect there are a number of neurodivergent, people in this industry. Oh yeah, loads. But I think there's reasons for that. And I think one of them is that in order to, you know, the worst that will happen, let's say you're working in insurance or banking. And if you don't deliver on a deadline, your boss will be furious, your line manager will be upset, your colleagues may be pissed off, may even be sacked, but that is private. I think the thing about the stakes are so high. If you don't prepare, it's almost like, you're not. like it's public humiliation if you don't hit the deadline.

As a stand-up, yes, exactly. So I wonder if it's almost like the stakes need to be that high in order for you to hit that deadline. But also I would say there needs to be, so in a situation where let's say you don't meet a deadline for drafting some kind of important legal contract or something businessy, there are second order effects. So the deal doesn't go through, the company loses money, the business collapses, if I don't prepare for a gig and I go on stage and get humiliated

there are only first order effects on me there are no second order effects that's what I mean but in a way it's the worst kind of it's more motivating but also less worrying because once you're okay with yourself being humiliated then what's no one else's problem who cares whereas what's stressful is

oh god I've fucked this up completely and now I've ruined their life over there and that guy's day over there and that's the guilt of it is much worse. But you don't get that nervous on stage, do you? No, not on stage, no. There's always adrenaline.

I think nerves and adrenaline are not the same. I think you can have, well, you have no choice about adrenaline. You have it. Your body makes it for you. But you can deal with being nervous. You can get rid of your adrenaline. Have your feelings ever been hurt by a heckle? Feelings hurt.

I don't know really. It's more about people being rude. I sort of hate people who are badly behaved. I remember growing up thinking, sort of socially disruptive people, people who take advantage of freedom, social freedom, are the reason why we're,

can't have nice things. Who are you talking about? So for example, let's say that there's a youth center and the youth center has like some bicycles in for the kids to use. The kids who ride those bikes and break them and don't fix them or who ride them somewhere else and just dump them there and walk somewhere else and get distracted or who don't take care of it to, they've been given this thing and they are squandering it or breaking it or not doing, you know. And hecklers are often a similar kind of person where they sort of go, well, I need to make this knight that's for everyone about me or I'm bored so I'm going to intervene in some way. But I feel what about people who have the volume turned up on their phone.

Yes, and they have conversations. Yeah, people who litter. All these people, I think, are in the same category. Yeah, or noisy neighbours or something. It's almost like, I feel, It's a very, it's a sort of solipsism, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's solipsism and in the worst cases a kind of narcissism where the only things that are real are things that are happening to them. Or the only things that matter maybe and they're the main character. And I think some people are obsessed to the idea that they have the right to do something but not necessarily that they should do it. or that rights don't come with responsibilities. It's not a very fun sentence.

But the fact is that, like, yes, you have a right to come to this place and drink alcohol and watch comedy, I suppose. But you don't have, you have a responsibility not to throw up all over yourself. I mean, try telling that to a student. Well, but they're never students. They're never students. It's always middle age people. That's the thing. It's always the people who look like they should be responsible.

Right. At the gig. Yeah. Interesting. The worst behaved audience members are, are, are people of the boomer generation. Isn't that interesting? Often. And Gen Z.

Gen X and millennials can get a handle on it, but Gen Z are all anti-socialized and TikTok weird. Thank God I'm safe. Yeah, well. And the boomers are just spoiled. I want to also say you have two other podcasts, in addition to the one that you do with me and Frank Skinner. Yes.

You do one, you do Budpod, which, was with Phil Wang and now you're doing it with Glenn Moore who's been on this podcast. Yes, he has, yeah, an alumnus. Yes, and he was lovely and he loved Ray. Yes, yeah. And I'm really enjoying it actually. I've been listening to it a lot and it seems like you guys have a great chemistry. Yeah, I met Glenn a long time ago actually.

I met him at the fringe in 2011 when we were doing sort of studenty comedy. That's good. That's going well. And then he and I... You were having a very funny conversation on the last week I listened to. Was it talking about bands introducing something? Was it someone in songs or the sort of... Oh, when songs sing, going to have a good time tonight, going to have a big rock and roll time tonight.

It's so pathetic to do a song about what a good time you're going to have later, like a child. Glenn was saying, it's like, oh, I can't wait for the... I can't wait for tomorrow's party. I find that with female songs like, I'm going out, getting... Look on. It's like, what? I don't need to know about your preparation.

Put it on my lipstick. Hiring a car. Yeah, it's embarrassing. They're to take a damn bags just in case. I think if you're going to commit, a little bit more detail is required. Gonna make sure I update Google Maps. So I've got the most recent routes available. And weighs a shit out of London.

So yes, I love your podcast with Glenn. Yes, we were actually. started, Glenn and I, well we've all started a new podcast, me, Glenn and Sarah Keyworth. Oh, they're great, aren't they? Yeah, they're very, very funny. And it's about gaming, which is, I know that you're an anti-gamer.

It's not that I'm an anti-gamer. You're deeply suspicious of games. Listen, yeah. I... Games and cartoons. No, don't get me started on cartoons. I think it's very linked to these two things. Do you?

Yeah, I do. Yeah, but it's ridiculous, Carter. Even as a child, I used to get so frustrated and say to my dad, it doesn't make any sense. They just got into a fight and they came out with plasters on their eyes. They didn't go to the hospital. You just saw a scuffle and then they had plasters on their eyes. Yeah, that's reasonable.

But it was things like that really bothered me where it sort of defy. That's quite autistic. I know. To say, well, that doesn't make sense, you know, logically. Well, there's a lot of crossover, Pierre, as you know, sometimes. You know, there can be. I think I also was noticing how it didn't make sense in that sense, but I think that's what I was enjoying.

Right, you were leaning into it. It was always resisting. And when they ran off the cliff and I would cry and go, how was he alive? So you wanted a sort of horrifying version of Tom and Jerry where a mouse was just splattered with a hammer by a cat somehow. Dead, episode one mouse, yeah. I like my cartoons

to be a bit real. I want my cartoons to essentially be like Mike Lee. I want improvisation. You like Bojerk Horseman but that is a real cartoon. That is exactly what you're saying.

It's very realistic. It's more like a long-running drama. But I'm able to suspend my disbelief of it. I don't mind that. It's not that I reject the surreal. No, no, no. It's just that

I think cartoons are quite awful. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is about gaming. Yes. And it's you, Sarah and Glenn. Just talking, yeah, we're just discussing gaming and new games, stuff that's coming out, stuff that we've been enjoying, playing ourselves. And what's this one called?

Button Boys. I love Button Boys. It's got a really nice, really funny intro theme tune that Jazz Emu, the comedian slash musician composed for us. Very fun, silly theme tune. The first one came out this week and there'll be a few more. We've recorded a few to cover us while we're all away at the fringe or Sarah's in Montreal doing just for laughs. So, yeah.

Hopefully anyone who likes gaming will enjoy it. Well, Pierre, I've so enjoyed walking with you today. Yeah, me too. I think I've even enjoyed it more than last time. Oh, good. Okay. Yeah, I think so. I loved last time, but I feel you're like a tiramisu.

each time I peel back the layers are more delicious. Delicious feels a bit inappropriate. Maybe I should say you like a tiramisu. I'm soaked with coffee. Each layer gets better and better. Is that okay for you? Yeah, yeah, I'll take that anytime. Well, we're at the gates of...

The imposing gates of Lamas Park or the Loafmastay Park. Lowe's Day Park. Ray has loved seeing you. Would you like to say? We've just been told by the producer, it's not my usual producer today, because she's off on holiday. We have lovely decks with us and he's told us it's a bit noisy so we're going over here by the dust bin, good for you decks. Yeah, it's bin time. So it's crying child versus traffic.

Sounds like the sort of dilemma Pierre and I face every day on the noise front. Yes. Hello. It's so weird, isn't it? that every tantrum like that is always about the same thing, isn't it? A curtailed freedom. It's not even, it's not real crying. It's not even curtail freedom.

I wonder, maybe you're partly right, but it's also what it comes down to is, you don't love me. I tend to think most tantrums are about, please love me. I think sometimes it's just about how dare you... But withdrawing privileges. How dare you end my...

fun. But that is about being loved because you're doing it because you don't love me. Yeah, maybe. It's about rejection, isn't it? I think that's what a lot of neurosis comes from. I mean, I'm diagnosing this poor child who was just screaming in the park. It's not about you, lovely child. It's about the human condition. It could just be awful. So, Pierre, we're going to say a fun farewell. Yes. We've loved seeing you. Likewise. I'll shake a very small paw under the under the big wig. I think he really likes you, Pierre. I think he likes the attention I give him. I think if I Fet him, what's his favourite chicken? He likes better cheese. Really? Gosh, I'm a very London dog.

Very North London Greek Turkish dog. He likes better cheese as his absolute favourite. Okay. Isn't it baby? He's done well in the heat. He has. Say goodbye to Pierre. He likes us, because you're a gentle giant. Hi, bye, buddy. He's a gent and so are you. Yeah, we've both got slightly drippy noses. The two gentlemen of our owner I'm calling you. Bye bye Pierre, do you do a dog impression? How would Raymond speak? Raymond? Oh, let's say he'd talk like um, Hercules grit pipe thin from the Goon show. What would he say? Um, he, he sounded like that. Oh dear. Yes. Yes. Well, good day. See you later.

it's been it's been lovely something quite aristocratic and oliginous you're oliginous yeah except you do go to the toilet in public which is a bit is less or more aristocratic actually more probably love you I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog

we'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts