Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Rebecca Front

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

This week Emily and Ray go for a walk on Hampstead Heath with Rebecca Front and her Cockapoo, Bailey. They talk about how Rebecca’s comedy career began, how she overcame some challenging experiences in childhood and how she deals with anxiety. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My kids were bribing me to go in and when the vet says, so what seems to be wrong with Bailey to go, one-year-old Bailey is suffering because they're obsessed with my voiceover voice. And I was so tempted and I thought, no, I can't do it because they'll just look at me. They probably don't watch the show because would you, if you worked in a vet, you're not going to go home watch Superbed, are you? This week on Walking the Dog, I went for a stroll with writer, actor, and all-round comic genius Rebecca Front.

I first came across Rebecca in the day-to-day and knowing me, knowing you, with Alan Partridge, and I just remember being blown away by how brilliant and funny she was. She's since, of course, gone on to become one of the most celebrated names in comedy being brilliant in everything, from the thick of it to Grandma's House. Rebecca has a cockapoo named Bailey, who is so handsome, by the way, and we met up on Hampstead Heath for a chat, and I should say a big thank you to Mark Gaitis, because it was on my dog walk with Mark last summer for this podcast that we ran into Rebecca and Bailey, and he managed to convince her to come on.

I feel I should pay him a commission or something, but look, he's doing all right. The man never stops working. Maybe I'll lend him some poo bags next time I see him. I am so glad Rebecca did come on because she's such a lovely woman. She's funny, as you'd expect, but she's also very calming and sweet-natured and a lovely person to spend time with. We talked about her childhood and how she overcame a few challenging experiences. We also chatted about how she deals with anxiety and meeting her husband and soulmate Phil. as well as how her comedy career all began.

I have to say, my dog Ray was utterly obsessed by Rebecca. He just gravitated towards her. I was a little bit jealous. I'm not going to lie. But you know what? If Ray wants to be your friend, I'm sold. You can catch Rebecca being brilliant in Armando Junici's Avenue 5, which is currently on Amazon Prime.

It's a very funny series about space travel starring Hugh Lorry, so do check it out. As you probably worked out, I loved my walk with Rebecca, and I hope you do too. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. I'll shut up now and leave you with the podcast. Here's Rebecca, Anne Bailey and Ray.

Right. Now, look, who's leading the way? Because I've got no sense of direction. I've got some bad news for you. No. Okay. Okay, dogs, it's up to you. So what is Ray, apart from a dog? I mean, that's the eternal.

And very adorable. I would describe them as a small, very small. Right. What is Bailey? Bailey's a cockapoo. The classic North London dog. I mean, that is such... We've got friends who live in the wilds of Somerset who are like, you know, proper. They've owned dogs for a while and it was in fact their first dog who persuaded us to get a dog in the first place.

And I just remember them, just after we said, oh, we know, we've found a dog who's having a litter and we've put in an offer. And before we even said it, they both went to cockapoo. Such a cliche, of course it's going to be a cockapoo. I'm really thrilled and excited because I'm a huge fan of this woman's and I bumped into her when I was walking the dog with Mark Gated. It's Rebecca Front, the immensely talented, fabulous Rebecca Front who's a walking the dog with her dog Bailey. So Bailey is beautiful, Rebecca.

Well, thank you. I mean, what can I say? You know, he takes after me, Cliff. got my jeans. He's a bit of a stunner. He's a Bobby Dazzler. Oh, I would describe his colouring as caramac. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. I'm sure there's a proper name. In fact, I think it's, I think they say apricot or something. I don't quite see acot. Maybe dried mango, but maybe one of the more expensive dried mangoes you get in plant is organic. Something like I'm really, really overpriced. Oh, sorry, my dog's just vomiting mud.

Bailey, maybe that swim was not a good idea. You're supposed to be looking heroic. All standing, vomiting on a corner. Come on, Belle. We've all had a good night. It's time to go home. Look, Bailey, we've all had a drink, mate. Now, that's not for you, sweetie.

I'm now being, another dog is now after my treat. Oh, this is a cute dog. Hello. You're lovely, but I can't feed you. So tell me about your history with dogs, Rebecca. Did you grow up with pets? No, very much not at all. My parents really were not big fans of dogs at all.

I say were in the past tense for reasons that all become apparent, but they really weren't into dogs. I think my mum was maybe a little bit nervous of them. I think I've got a feeling she made me bitten by one when she was quite young. So no, we absolutely did not have a dog at home. And I became a bit scared because I think I always associate anything that's unfamiliar as being possibly slightly scary. So I always assumed I was scared of dogs.

And then we used to go for holidays in Yorkshire with my mum's old college friend and her family. And they had a lovely spring of spaniel called Fergus. And that's the first time I sort of fell in love with the dog. Because Fergus just seemed to really like me. And it really threw me that there could be this creature that I didn't understand anything about. But mysteriously, he seemed to kind of get me. But then I met Phil, my now husband, who death. desperately wanted a dog and always had wanted one.

Bailey. Apologous, my operatic deliver it. It's the only thing he answers. Come away, come away, good boy. When I met Phil, he was desperate to have a dog, and I just kept saying it's too much for draw, and it's too much pressure, you know, because I travel for work and blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, so to cut a very long story short, years went by. We had two kids. The kids desperately wanted a dog, but we all agreed, no, it wasn't fair to have a dog when we've got quite a small garden, and, you know, we were working all the time. And then finally, we decided years and years and years later

after falling in love with this lurcher, a mom too down in Somerset, that yes, we wouldn't you get a dog. Yeah. But the timing could not have been more ironic because when we finally got Bailey, after my kids had wanted this, their entire childhood, he arrived two days before my son went travelling for four months. My son, Ollie, were so cross.

It's just like, really? Really? Did you plan this? Just to drive me insane. It's not like someone's sick, Joe. I know. It was awful. It really did look like he was the Olly replacement.

Bailey, come away now. Oh, we're witnessing. Okay, this is true love. Bail! We've talked about this. Consent. Come away. Okay, unfortunately, she has now consented, so that's not good.

Bail, come away. Come away, come on. He's got a very, very. happy heart. He's got an incredibly sweet personality and really lovely nature. We like to, because he's so sweet and so lovable, we always like to kind of ascribe the worst possible political views to him. So we hear something really reprehensible being talked about on the news or something. We'll just go, Bailey voted for that. Because he's just so obviously such a sweetie. So you're basically an antidepressant, Bailey. Do you know, he's, you know, he's a very good. He's, you know, he's,

He's been an absolute godsend during lockdown and everything. So he jumps on my bed in the morning. My husband goes down and makes a coffee because I've got him very well trained. Much better trained than the dog. So he goes on and makes coffee and lets Bailey upstairs. And Bailey leaps on my bed and I just wake up happy because of him. It's a really wonderful thing.

He's running. Come on, let me back how you run. Oh, look at you. Yay! That's great. So I want to know about it. your childhood really because I'm fascinated by your childhood. I'm very extremely happy I'm glad to say I grew up in East London and in just near Ilford in

Essex as it was Essex I don't know if it still counts as Essex and it's just you know my parents thank goodness are both still alive and it was they were just wonderful just loving very very supportive to me and my brother I've got my brother Jeremy is four years older than me. And my parents, yeah, they're just amazing. They're just so supportive. Every live show I've ever done, they've come to, and everything that's on the radio,

they'll kind of, they'll either listen to it when it's going out, or they used to make recordings and label them. I mean, it's a real, they're like the archivists of the family. They're properly proud of both of us. It's really sweet. And it was quite a creative family, wasn't it, in some ways? Because your dad, well, there's something very special in terms of your dad's legacy artistically. Yes, my dad's output.

Yeah, my dad's, he trained as an artist. He went to the Slade, which for a boy from, you know, kind of working class East London, that was quite a big deal to get into the Slade. He was really talented draftsman and still is at the age of 90 when he draws. He's just so. adept, you know, he's got the most incredible hand. So he went to the Slade and he started fine art and then got into advertising in the 60s, which was, you know, very much Mad Men, the London version of Mad Men time.

So he was there in his Natty Jaeger suits in Mayfair, you know, sort of... So quite glamorous, and good looking and, you know, quite a bit of swagger about it. So he did all of that, but actually hated it. He really wanted to be... He just wanted to be an artist. He wanted to be... He didn't mind what he was doing, but he really didn't want to be kind of selling bacon and stuff, which is what he was doing. Yeah.

So eventually he gave that up and went freelance and just thought, I'll just take my chances. I'll take whatever work I can get. And my mum, bless her, who had by that time two small children, supported him through it, which was an amazing thing to do. And one of the first jobs that he got was that Robert Freeman, who did most of the Beatles albums, got in time. got in touch with him and asked him to do the lettering for rubber soul, for the rubber soul album cover. So that amazing rubbery lettering, which is based on a drop of latex. He went and met the Beatles, went to Abbey Road, I think, met the Beatles,

discussed it with them. And then, yeah, he just came up with this idea of the rubber soul lettering being this sort of drop of rubber, molten rubber. And, yeah, he came up with this extraordinary lettering, which has become pretty iconic. and was sort of one of the precursors of bubble writing and pop art lettering and all that sort of stuff. So it was kind of an amazing thing for him to have done. Were you aware of that being an amazing thing at the time?

I mean, we used to be young. Well, I was tiny. I mean, I think I was literally six months old or something, yeah. But as you got older, presumably people talked about it and said, you know, your dad did this. Yeah, I mean, actually not so much until we were much more grown up. And then it started to be a thing. I don't know quite whether it was, whether he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he was. He's very shy, my dad, very modest, and I wonder if maybe he just didn't tell people.

So I suspect throughout childhood lots of people didn't know about it. And then as I got older, my brother and I would tell our friends, you know, when we were at university and stuff, we'd kind of say, do you know what, my dad did this. And gradually, you do start to realise that everybody's going, God, that's really cool. I mean, it's the coolest thing I've ever heard of how I'm doing. I'll tell him, he'll be very proud. But it is quite cool. And then he did a couple of other album cover things.

But mainly he was a book illustrator. He still carried on doing calligraphy, which is, you know, I think he would say rubber soul was much more a calligraphy job because it was just the font. But most of the time he did book illustration and that's where the collaborations with my mum came in because my mom was a teacher

but had always written stories for the kids at school and eventually they got a few things published. They ended up getting about five or six books published and she wrote the stories and dad did the illustrations. So it was really nice growing up that they were like a little cottage industry. And do you know what I get the sense is that it was a creative family, but you had sort of love and rules and boundaries and all that stuff as well?

There were, absolutely. The only, I think the only tax to it was that it was, the income was precarious. And as, you know, this is freelancer's entire life. We now realise it's all about, you know, you're either so busy that you're having to turn work down and therefore turn money down, or you're just not getting anything at all. So there was never a sense of kind of financial security. That was the only downside. And I think as kids, they protected us from it really well.

But I was aware of it. I was aware that there would be sort of quiet discussions around, can we have a holiday this year and that sort of stuff? Or can we need to get a new car because this one's conking out and we just can't. We just can't do it. So, you know, it wasn't, God, it wasn't poverty. People have so much worse. It really wasn't.

We were very comfortable, but there was no sense of real sort of secure its financial security. So I love the sound of your childhood and I get the impression you were close to your brother, Jeremy. Yeah, very close and we still are actually. In fact he ended up marrying one of my college friends

so we have stayed really, really close and he lives very close to me and yeah, it's lovely. And his daughter is between the ages of my two kids so there's a really nice kind of, it's like they're all almost like they're all siblings. You see I've often think

If siblings have a good relationship, you know, whatever kind of child has you have. Baby gets down. You're making Emily covered in love. Is my mic okay? He's just pulled my... Bailey, what have we told you? You come from a household full of people trying to do voiceovers and produce things, and this is how I've trained you.

You see what I mean there? He's a saboteur. He looks all innocent, but there's definitely that bit of him that's just thinking, yeah, call this a living. call this a job. It's not a job. Is this how you earn your living? I think he's looking at Ray. He's being carried as if to say, how come he gets special privileges?

Don't even think about it, Bail. That's not happening. You're very heavy. Oh, you lovely. Good boy, Bail. I was going to say, I always think that's a sign that the parents did a good job

on an emotional level. If the siblings are close in adulthood. I suppose that's probably true, actually. Yeah, so Jeremy and I really got close around six-form time actually for two reasons. Firstly, because we really got into comedy and started coming up with ideas together. And secondly, I think because I went from being

kind of really annoying and deeply unattractive to being only mildly annoying and mildly unattractive. And so suddenly I was welcome in his such a show-off. And in fact, we were briefly in a band together, me and Jeremy, and so we did, by the time we were 17 or 18, we were really close. I know, but it wasn't always that, you know, we did bicker a lot. I get this impression of you as quite a studious academic kid. Yes, I was, I read a lot.

I did work very hard and I was quite, I was very ambitious. I mean, I've always been ambitious and I think at that stage my ambition was all about wanting to be, you know, best at stuff and wanting to be top of the class and all that sort of stuff. So I worked really hard. I was quite good at exams, which is one of those things that, as we've seen, you know, more and more as each year passes, doing exams is a skill. And you get really brilliant people who are rubbish at exams and really not brilliant people who are very good at them.

And I happen to be quite good at them. And I don't think I was exceptional at all. I just worked hard and I knew how to revise. So, yeah, I was. I was always very studious. Were you in the sort of popular gang, as it were? Oh gosh, that's really interesting. I don't actually particularly remember there being one.

I was in a big, a group of friends. I always had friends around me, and I was never bullied, and I always felt very comfortable. It was really weird because, actually, I'd always been very happy and stable, and I'd always loved school. And then it was the summer before I transitioned from primary school to secondary school,

And the area I grew up, we still had the 11 plus. So I've done the 11 plus and I passed and got a place at this secondary school that everybody wanted their girls to go to. It's this posh girls' grammar state school, but run like a little bubble at school. And we went away for a brief holiday, literally like a week's holiday, staying at a family house that my cousin had up in Leeds. And we only went for a week because my grandfather had been unwell. he'd had some heart problems, but he'd come out of hospital and the doctors

have assured my mum that it was all going to be fine. And she kept saying, you sure I can go away? And they were like, no, definitely he's absolutely fine. He's coming in for a checkup next week, but it's going to be fine. So we went away. And about two days into the holiday, we went to the River Wharf, and we had a little paddling trip picnic. My dad is, you know, we're none of us particularly good swimmers, apart from my brother,

who's quite good. But we went for this thing. And so literally, my brother and my dad were wading up. up to below their knees in water because it was a very hot day. My mum and I were laying out the picnic. And suddenly we could see my brother waving and waving and waving. Classic like, you know, not waving but drowning thing. And we were waving back like idiots.

And in fact, he was saying that dad was drowning. And what had happened, we think, was that they were right by the bank because my dad's not a good swimmer. So they were wading a little bit into the river, but right by the bank. And we think that the roots of a tree had created a whirlpool. He lost his balance and he got sucked into this whirlpool and he could not get his balance. Couldn't get back at all.

And he thought, Dad tells it, Dad's got a really interesting take on it because he remembers it very, very clearly. He was absolutely convinced he was dying. But he kind of thought, you know what, if I'm going to go, this is not a bad way to go. So he had a very peaceful experience. But you're, it's not peaceful for you there because you're watching it. And once my mother and I realised, I then have this very clear memory of us running round things. riverbank I was barefoot I think I was in bikini or something I was running and I remember looking down the scene blood all over my foot and thinking I didn't even

know I cut myself because I was obviously in shock and then we just ran and ran and ran and at some point I remember seeing people go in and I also remember some people saying no we can't get him and someone saying there's nothing we can do I mean all the we could hear all this going on and we were just running to try and get to him and then I remember these three guys I've got this very clear memory these three Yorkshire blokes like rugby players yanking off their shirts and shouting one of them went boog of this and they all yanked off their shirts and they waded in and my dad's quite small so these three guys just got him you know one under each arm and

i think you know one got his legs or something and they just pulled him out they got him to the side and rolled him onto his side and by some miracle one of the other people having a picnic that day was a nurse so she suddenly appeared at by this time my mum and i were there i thought he was dead because as we arrived he was just lying listless and she suddenly appeared and whacked him hard on the back and all the water came out. She probably saved his life. And she definitely saved his life. Yeah, he was, the reason he was so peaceful is because he was dying. There's no question.

I think there's a thing, isn't there about if you go down three times or something, you're dead. And there's some, I don't know if that's scientifically accurate, but once the water starts to get into your lungs, you haven't got a lot of chance really. That's amazing that story So it was Thank God I mean it was incredible And he recovered very very fast My dad as soon as he

Was back properly conscious He was just kind of like Should we come back tomorrow You know I mean he was absolutely fine But for the rest of us Of course we were absolutely traumatised And we went back to the holiday house And we were all in shock

My poor brother who tried to save his life And couldn't Just didn't speak for about 24 hours It's horrendous Anyway so the next day my mum and I went to the local shop to get some milk and we came back ready to make breakfast and my dad opened the door to my mum

was like 9.30 in the morning with a glass of brandy and my mum is not a drinker so we knew something terrible had happened and mum said what is it what's going on and her dad had died so these two things happened within the day two days of each other and we just we packed the car up and we drove home

and so it was horrendous and then about a week after that I started the new school and I just couldn't cope with it. I just fell apart and I was terrified that my mum was going to be next. I thought well Bampas gone my grandfather. Dad nearly went and we managed to just snatch you from the doors of death. So clearly they're going death's going after mum now you know that's the pattern of this that's how this is going. I mean I think to be honest I think I was quite I was an anxious kid anyway I've been claustrophobic since I was about seven

so it's not like I was without any anxiety. It was kind of an overreaction to what had happened with my dad and my grandfather but it wasn't that surprising given that i already had this propensity to catastrophes and you know be scared of things and um i mean i i think it in my head it was a very very clear narrative which was this figure of death you know coming in stalking the family but actually it was now i look back on it i was just i was an anxious kid and something unnerved me something horrible happened and it really unnerved me and i got terrified i was just terrified of being away from my family and being away from home. See, I don't think that's an overreaction.

I think that's a really normal reaction because I think it's one thing having to deal, you know, of course people have to deal with loss at all ages, but I think something about watching a parent in that situation and feeling utterly helpless. And in your brother's case, feeling potentially sort of culpable him somewhere, even though of course he wasn't. No, of course not. But I think in his head, yeah, he just felt like he'd,

He'd failed to pull him out of this horrible situation. Of course he had, you know. My brother's 14. You know, of course he couldn't pull a grown man away from a world pool. There was no, and he was incredibly brave that he tried. But I don't think he, at the time, I think now he does recognise that. Oh, look, look at all those dogs. Bailey's not great with alpha dogs.

So he's actually, I think these two are really good together. Look up Vadoz. He's so anxious, Rebecca. Oh, sweet. Sweetie, I really do empathise though. Do you? What I'm like, yeah. How does your anxiety manifest itself?

I mean, the obvious thing is the stuff I can't do, which is going on, basically going on tube trains and going in lifts. But there is more than that. I mean, I have suffered with a lot of health anxiety, which I have to, which I've really worked on in recent years. And I'm quite proud of, you know, how, what a distance I've come, because that's been very difficult for a long time. and I've managed to really kind of get on top of it a lot more through CBT counselling.

I feel like I've got a lot of tools to deal with that. But it's still there. It's kind of always going to be there. I don't know. I suppose I think it is that catastrophizing thing that as soon as a new idea presents itself, like a new possibility like a holiday or a job abroad or something like that, I immediately go to what could possibly go wrong and how badly it could go wrong. and can convince myself completely within five minutes

that I shouldn't do this thing. So I then have to work incredibly hard to convince myself that actually maybe I should, because once you're totally sure that the worst thing is going to happen, it's really hard then to think, but I'm going to do it anyway. Given what you do for a living,

the high-stress job you do, as an actor... Shortly after I met Phil, who is one of the least anxious people I've ever met in my life. That's your other heart. My husband, yeah. He's a writer. He was for a long time

he was an exec producer. I met him when he was working in radio as a producer. Then he became a TV executive producer and now he's writing. He said a really smart thing. He's very well read, Phil, and he just threw this quote at me, which initially I didn't, I kind of thought, why are you saying that way? Which was that I was trying to explain being claustrophobic and being terrified of, you know, going in a lift, say. And he said, oh, okay, all, all. always keep a hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse, which is a quote from Hillair Belloc, one of the cautionary tales. And the point is, we are going up a hill, by the way, in case people are wondering. What? It sounds like I'm having an aspirate. I'm going to carry Ray through

the mud. Hang on. Hampstead, very hilly. But the point is about that quote that, actually, that kind of is what my anxiety is, that I keep a hold of nurse, which is my anxiety, which is horrible but it's very manageable. Because if I don't, I'm going to start being anxious of other things, which I really can't afford to do. And I remember once talking to a CBT therapist and saying, you know, my husband used this quote and she kind of wrote it down and went,

God, that's brilliant, that's exactly what it is. I don't think it is for everybody, but for me, I think the anxiety is a way channeling the stuff that would otherwise hinder my career. Yes. So, for instance, the example I always use, is that I remember years ago doing, have I got news for you when it was, they used to record it?

That's most people, especially women. Yeah, most people's idea of hell. And I'm not a comedian. You know, I've done comedy, but I'm not a comedian. So I was very nervous about doing it. But what I was really nervous about was that where they used to record it, they would have drinks afterwards on the 21st floor in the bar. So to me, I could do the recording.

That was fine. What I couldn't do is go up in the lift. And once I realised that I could actually walk up, I literally got in touch with the producer and said, you know, is there a staircase I can use? Once you said yes, I thought, oh, can't find them. I'll be right. I can do the rest of it. Phil, who, FYI, I'm already obsessed with.

I love the sound of Phil. He is wonderful. Presumably Phil's take on that would be, okay, so that was handy for you to be able to focus on the 21st floor and the lift and that meant you were able to perform confidently and well on have I got news? I think that's right. Now there's a downside to that, which is that that then disincentivises you, if that's a word, from actually curing the phobia.

Because once you've got that in your head, and I genuinely do think that's the way my mind works, I then start to think, well, hang on a minute, if I start using lifts without any anxiety, does that mean I'm not going to be able to go on stage? I don't think there's any logic to that at all but mental health is not logical so that's the issue I think

and I really I think as I've got older I've decided there are certain things that I will hold on to which in my case is tube trains and lifts and all the stuff that's really hindering me like for a while I didn't want to get on a plane certainly didn't want to fly long haul well I can't do my job if I don't go on planes

and I don't do long haul so that's fine now That's okay. Yeah, no. You went to Oxford. Was that expected of you, Rebecca? No, it really wasn't. Because I went to, when I left the school that I was phobic about going to, I went to a different grammar school,

which then became an early form of comprehensive, and didn't have any real history of people going to Oxford. I mean, a few people, once every couple of years, somebody would go to Oxford. So it really wasn't. It was kind of a bit weird when I said, I wanted to apply. But I had very, very supportive teachers who gave up their free time to help coach me and oh that looks like fun kicking through the leaves. Do you want to describe what's going on?

A dog and a girl just kicking through a big pile of leaves and I've never seen two creatures happier. I mean that is the definition of joy, isn't it? That's just wonderful. But yeah, so going to Oxford? I realised when I got there, there are there are some people who are, are just brilliant and are just really gifted academically one of my closest friends at the time is just brilliant she's just got an incredible mind i was absolutely not that person but i was good at exams so i worked hard and then when i got to oxford after the initial imposter syndrome which lasted about a year did you have imposter syndrome there genuinely thought that um they got the wrong person didn't help that there was there was a girl in the year above me called rebecca fong

so our pigeonholes for letters and things were next to each other and in my first about my first week I was at women's college at hughes and my first week I got invited to tea with three boys from Oriol or something I thought what the heck just said you know dear Rebecca we'd love it if you came for tea and I thought wow and I was really excited and then I kind of read it a bit more closely and there was some reference to a seminar or something that went and I thought oh it's for Rebecca fall and then I started to get obsessed with the fact that Rebecca Fong in fact was the one they'd meant to give the place to.

No logic to that of course because she was already there but I just was obsessed with it was meant to be her it wasn't meant to be me. I would have wanted to bag myself a Sebastian flight. Oh that's totally what I was after. I wanted a floppy-haired public schoolboy. That's completely what I wanted. Funnily enough Phil is a floppy-haired public schoolboy but he's from a working-class council state in Streatham so that's kind of the best of all worlds isn't it? I hate you've got the perfect man. It's great isn't it? It doesn't play jazz piano. That was my other requisite.

So did you find any Brideshead characters? No, there was a guy in who was part of, who I'd met at some Owds function. I remember thinking, oh, that's him. He's very good looking, floppy head. Didn't know I existed. I mean, really not interested at all. So I obsessed about him for a little while. And then, no, I had a couple of boyfriends.

They were all interesting, all state school people from backgrounds very much like mine. So for all my... kind of wannabe snootiness, like, yeah, I'm going up in the world. I clearly wasn't really that interested because I was actually much more drawn to people. It's a slightly swatty, you know, state school people like me who just worked really hard and got there, you know, by just digging in and getting on with it. I think deep down I probably was much more impressed with that. And I think I was a bit intimidated as well by people who, there is a kind of swagger, isn't there? People who've gone to very good schools, have that.

women and men have a real confidence and a real swagger and I've always found that I love it I really admire it but I'm really intimidated by it really not me I just don't quite get it it's the sort of people that you know if they say I'm sorry there's no tables available tonight look here there seems to be a problem my good man yeah it's that I'm going to I'm going to solve this let's throw something at this problem Money, charm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to be able to do that. But I've just never mastered it.

Phil actually, maybe is the public school thing, I don't know. Phil is very good in that situation. He kind of, he used to teach business English to people learning English, but wanting to learn about how to negotiate in a meeting, for example. So he learnt from that all sorts of, he came at it as an English teacher, but he learnt from it all these negotiating tactics, which he will employ really brilliantly. So one of the things he taught me is that when you're, you know,

if you arrive at the restaurant and they say there's no table and you say, well, is there any way that maybe we could sort of push those two tables together or something? Quite often they'll use the word usually and they'll say, no, we don't normally do that, we don't usually do that. And I would not notice that, but Phil will always notice it and say, so forgive me, but under what circumstances would you do it? And at that point, because you've been polite about it, but also quite persistent, very often they'll say, okay, under these circumstances, I'll do it just to shut you up.

You need to solve the problem for someone, present them with a solution. So after you left, after you graduated, it seems like, and I may be wrong, but it seems like you were moved into radio fairly, it was fairly swift, was it? Yeah, I got into the Oxford Review, which was the... equivalent of footlights and um what extraordinary looking dog there's a fight breaking out what is he what is that I don't know I know nothing about dog oh I love this stuff like David Lee Roth yeah hello darling how a beautiful dog what kind of breed is this again oh it's an Afghan

we should really know that Emily we should have known that do you know it's the beautiful Afghan the coolest hair-dew on what's the What's it called? Malachi. Malachi. Malachi. That's the coolest name for a dog ever. So yeah, so you, so getting, I mean, I was first aware of you.

I remember, it would have been when you were doing the day to day and working with Steve Coogan with Alan Partridge and only knowing you and I remember watching you and I was with my mum who was an actor and she said, God, she's so funny that woman because we're really laughing at you. really laughing at you and then we said well she's really naturalistic and a brilliant actor and then you open your mouth to sing and my mom went oh great i love that that's the nicest thing i've ever heard because she was like you were the triple threat but oh that's nice most people were i was certainly first came across you through your work with you know with the day-to-day and steve keogh yeah what sort of led up to that and how did that all happen and that was that was

sort of among the first TV stuff I did. I was incredibly lucky that that all panned out. What had happened was I was in a double act when I left Oxford. I was in an act called the Bobo Girls with Sean Ed William who's now one of the comedy commissioners at Radio 4 in fact and she got much more into production as the years went on and became a brilliant comedy producer. So Sean Ed and I were in this double act. My brother wrote all the sketches and I wrote all the songs and and we had this wonderful guy called Yone Magnuson, who now exec produces Graham Norton's show, actually. And he was our musical director.

So it was a very tight-knit little group. And that's how I got my equity card doing gigs with the Bobo Girls. Then we got a couple of series on radio. Just because we were on the circuit a lot, we were doing loads of gigs and we got seen and we were, you know, I think quite unusual because it was half songs, half sketches. So we got a little series on radio. And that went quite well. And then during that time, I was working at the World Service. I'd managed to get a gig doing English language teaching programs at the World Service.

And that's how I met Phil. Oh, you weren't doing a mostly cloudy today. I were doing things like, we would do crazy things like the lyrics of songs explained for listeners overseas. So I remember we did Phil Collins' groovy kind of love on one of them. And there's this actor who was reading out, you know, baby you and me got a groovy kind of love. and then I would have to at slow speed say, Groovy. What does Phil mean by the word groovy?

Simon. And then Simon would say, well, when Phil says groovy, what do you mean? And that was basically what we did. And then we did slow speed news and slow speed drama. So I was doing these two things concurrently. I had my moonlighting radio comedy career

and I had my World Service gig and that's how I met Phil and so on. But then we got a second series of the, Bobo Girls radio show and our producer, the first series producer had left to get a telejob. So we were then looking around for a producer to, you know, Radio 4 producer who could do it. And my friend Sean Ed, my Dabbalak partner said, oh, do you remember that guy, Armando Junucci, who we met once at again. And I'd literally, I'd met him once, I think, at Oxford.

Because people always think we must have been bosom pals and that's what. And I didn't know him at all, really. And she said, oh, do you remember that guy? Because he's now a producer at Radio 4 and he'll obviously see our work. Why don't we ask him? So we asked him, and it was the luckiest thing I could ever have done. He did the second series. And while we were doing it, well, Sean had actually at that point got a job herself at Radio 4 and started producing.

So Amanda then said to me, well, like, what are you going to do if you're not doing the double act? Would you like to come in and do a few sketches for me on the Mary White House experience with Dave Badell and co, which I did? And then he just kept getting me in. And then I remember about probably six months or eight months after that, he said, I'm developing this new show, which is going to be partially improvised. Was that the day-to-day? That was on the hour, which became the day-to-day. And I, like an idiot, said, I don't improvise.

Because this was the time when whose line is it anyway and stuff like that was going on. And all these brilliant people were doing improv, sort of almost competitively. And I thought, I couldn't do that in a million years. So I said, no. I said, no, can I just come in and do some of the reading bits and not do the improv? of and he kind of said well no you could come in but you know we will get you to improvise and I was just thinking I'm going to be thrown out but you know what's interesting I just think that says a lot about the difference between men and women in a way because I would have said

what you said yeah I think it's and I think women tend to you so don't want to disappoint or let yeah and I know I'm generalising here but I think no it is a generalisation but I think you're right you're right you're doing it's generally fuck it I'll learn it I'll have a go. Yeah. No, you're so right and I think we are, I hope that's changing, but I think it's so ingrained in us to just sort of, to toe the line and to not, not show off and not be, not draw attention to yourself. So even as an actor, I was trying not to draw attention to myself. I was sort of like, can I just do the quiet bits? I have to really school myself not to say sorry all the time. Do you? For things that I shouldn't be sorry because I shouldn't have to be

sorry but I can't do it I find it really difficult not to not to say that really sorry what your dog's done to my jeans I'm sorry for that I'd be embarrassed for I'm very sorry he on the other hand as a male dog he doesn't say sorry does he no he just keeps doing it so working with the day to day what was that working experience like for you it was it was incredibly happy and positive it really was I have I've got no negative I'm sure there must have been when it was exhausting and I was cross at the end of a day but I can't remember any of those things I only remember it being brilliant I got on with everybody I just loved the material we were

doing and it was it was such a challenge because I didn't feel because I didn't feel that I was really quite qualified to do it but at the same time I thought well I must be doing okay because Armanda keeps employing me and he's not a man who would do it out of charity he's clearly doing because he thinks I'm you know I'm giving whatever I'm doing is what he wants for the show So gradually my confidence increased and I just felt like each challenge then, I'm sorry, he's done it again, again with the muddy paws. Bailey, get down! Did you start getting recognised around that time then when you went out and what was that like? Not very much. I mean a little bit. The first time I remember being recognised, which was actually after a knowing me, knowing you, I think. It was just, I have this memory of this being really toe-curlingly embarrassing because I didn't, you know, you can't plan for it really.

And so you don't really know how you're going to respond. And I remember I was in a shop with Phil. And this person came out to me and said, I hope you don't mind my saying, but I saw you on telly last week. And I really loved the show. But he'd started it by saying something like, am I right in thinking you're the woman from knowing me knowing you? I think that was the phrase he used. And I don't know where this phrase came from because I've never said it before or since.

But according to Phil, I went, well done you. And Phil, afterwards just went, okay, don't ever do that. It's the most patronising thing. Well done, you, like pat on the head. God knows where that came from. I think I was just, I was so flawed by it, you know, and it was just like, you must be a genius to have spotted me without my wig and my false teeth or whatever I've been.

Do you think also as someone, and you've said yourself, you know, if you're someone who feels anxious some of the time, It's almost, there's almost a panic about not knowing what you're confronted with a situation you're unfamiliar with. Yeah. Where there's a lot of focus on you. Yeah. And you don't know what to say and then you, of course, inevitably say the wrong thing. Generally, people are absolutely lovely when they recognise you.

It's quite rare for anybody to say anything that's, I mean, I've had the odd one of people saying, remember somebody once saying to me, I saw you in that drama last night and I said, oh, right. I didn't say, well done you. just said, all right. And he said, yeah, we didn't think much of it. Things like that. There are a few moments like that when you just think, why would you bother to stop me and tell me? But generally, people are lovely. So as time's gone on, I mean, it doesn't happen all the time by any means. It's still relatively unusual. But generally, I'm quite relaxed about it now. I just think, okay, that's nice. That's a nice thing that somebody said. I'm presumably doing the thick of it, again with Amanda

Unici, that, which you were so brilliant in. That's been such a celebrated performance because that character has become so iconic. She's become like a warning, I think. I slightly worry she might have put more women off going into politics. That's always been my anxiety about it. How did people in politics respond to you? Did you feel you were suddenly on their radar at law? Oh yeah, totally.

I had this brilliant experience because that is really the job that I most often get recognised from because I look most like me in it. because a lot of the stuff I'd done previously I was in wigs and false teeth and stuff but Nicola obviously just looks like me but I remember I got invited to a charity thing at Downing Street after the first series had gone out and I knew lots of politicians

were into the show because I'd been at a screening with lots of politicians and they were all kind of fawning over me but I hadn't quite realised how much the political establishment the wider political establishment loved the show so I got invited to this thing and I was

it was a charity do So, you know, I was all up for going, but I was also really nervous about it because, you know, it's intimidating to walk into Dunning Street and not know anybody. And I can't remember how, but somehow or other, I twigged on Twitter that Catlin Moran was going as well, who I didn't know, but we were in touch on Twitter. So I sent her a direct message saying, can we meet up before? Because I'm really nervous about going to this thing. She said, yes, I'm terrified as well. So we met up in a pub just near Downing Street, which is of course frequented by political, by spads

and all these political obsessives. They were all having a drink after work. And I walked in literally it was like that moment in the Westons when somebody pushes open the saloon doors and the piano stopped playing. They all just stopped talking and stared at me. And it was really... I mean, that doesn't happen.

That's not the level that I'm at at all. But it was most peculiar feeling. And do you know what's slightly intoxicated? if I'm honest, a little bit, a little bit heady. It was quite nice. It was quite nice. I think there's a sort of feeling that is immodest to say I like being recognised. But actually sometimes it is really nice.

My husband used to say whenever we went to, when the thick of it was going out, you know, that was kind of at the point when lots and lots of people would watch that show and it did have a kind of real cachet about it. Yeah. And we would go to, oh, parents even. at my kids' school. And we knew that, you know, because the kids would say to us, the politics teacher loves it or the history teacher loves it.

Oh, what is that? Oh, I just saw another pop-a-poo, and I thought, but no, Bailey wouldn't get involved in that? Doesn't do that. It steers well clear. Someone, a journalist said about you not long ago, don't do an intake of breath because it's a nice thing. Okay, good. I know as a performer.

I know as a performer. That's sometimes a tricky to do it. But a journalist said Rebecca Front is one of those performers that you see her name on the credits and you relax and you think, oh, this is going to be good. Oh, that's nice. That's a very nice thing to say. I really think that's very true of you. In the sort of biography channel, Rebecca Front, you know, when they make one of those movies of your life, what are the things that you feel really sit up there as things that you feel? I'm so glad I did that. I think, I mean, I've been so lucky because actually there are quite a lot that I'm really, really proud of.

But I think definitely think of it is one of the things I'm most proud of because it was the most fulfilling job and I loved every second of it. So I think I would definitely, I want to be thought of as an actor. I'm not, I'm really proud of having written a couple of books, but I find writing incredibly hard work and I have so much admiration for people who do it. because I'm not temperamentally suited to it really. It's just all the pressure is on you. I think actually I'm quite a team player and I like to be around people and I like the collaboration.

I don't quite trust myself to be able to come up with the goods when it's just me. Do you consider yourself an extrovert? No, not at all. Are you not? No, no, no, very shy. I think most actors are actually. I think I've rarely met an actor

who, even the most outgoing ones, who genuinely thinks that they're an extrovert. I think we all just put on a good show. My mum wants to describe me as a dreadful show off. Would you have been described in that way? Probably. Yeah, I think I was always, you know,

the first one in auditions at school for school shows, and I was always the one trying to make people laugh in class and who could do impressions of the teachers and all of that stuff. But, you know, it's like the oldest story in the book, isn't it? But that really is what you do when you feel insecure and you feel like you're not really that good at anything. You think, well, at least I can make people laugh. Often people say about performers that, you know, what's the whole?

There's always a hole they're trying to fill in somewhere. I don't really see that with you. There doesn't seem to be one. I think probably there is this ambitious thing. There is, it's never quite enough for me. So maybe that's the hole I'm trying to fill is I'm always thinking, yeah, but I could have done this. I could have achieved that.

I don't quite know where that comes from actually, but that is quite a big part of me and that that was there at school as well. Yeah, but I could have got an A. You know, I got a B plus, but I could have got an A. And then you get the A and then it's, yeah, but I could have got an A plus. So I think that's probably the hole I'm trying to fill. But why I don't really know. Do you think also if you were always conscious that you had sort of anxiety and, you know, the performing is a form of self, it's a kind of a cure in a way.

It's almost like, right, I'm going to be driven to that. Yeah. Because that's going to force me to focus on that. Yes, that's my next goal. Yeah, I think there's a big part of, if you are an anxious person, then your whole life is a performance in that you're constantly having to tell people, you know, nothing to see here. I'm absolutely fine.

I'm in control of everything. Yeah. And maybe that's a part of it as well, just that thing of, you know, constantly having to tell the world, it's all cool, it's all fine. Look, I can do this, I can do that, I can skate on this thin ice over here. I'm absolutely in control of my world when actually you feel like the world is totally out of control. Bailey, come on, pups. Do you find that dog walks are good for you mentally? Oh yes, undoubtedly. Yeah, I mean, he really, really, he gets me out in the, in the sunlight, even if it's very milky sunlight like now.

I'm outdoors getting fresh air and some vitamin D and breathing and looking at trees and, you know, and that's all down to him. Yeah. Every single day, sometimes twice a day and that's just made all the difference to me. And now, having gone from not growing up in a dog family, not only are you a dog family, the matriarch of a dog family, but you do the voiceover. I know. The supervert.

Supervert. The glorious blessed Noel Fitzpatrick. Yes. Who you've met and I haven't and I'm so jealous that you met him. Do you know, Rebecca, he gets a lot of interest, shall we say? I'm not surprised. He's got very twinkly eyes and an incredibly lovely accent. And he's, you know, he's good with animals.

What can you say? Yeah, I was so frustrated actually a couple of years ago, you know, when he did his live tour. He did that big thing at the O2. And the production company who makes SuperVet invited me along. Yes. I was so excited to go and then I was filming and I couldn't go and that was my one chance to meet Noel. So I still haven't met him. That's a date. We're going to go together. Let's do it. When we first got Bailey, because I'd already done sort of six series or something of SuperVet at that point. And we first got Bailey and we signed up with our local vet.

And my kids were trying so hard. They were like sort of, you know, bribing me to go in. And when the vet says, so what seems to be wrong with Bailey to go, one-year-old Bailey is suffering. Because they're obsessed with my voice-over voice. They're always trying to get me to do things in my voice-over voice. And I was so tempted and I thought, no, I can't do it because they'll just look at me. They probably don't watch the show. Because would you, if you worked in a vets, you're not going to go home

watch Supervettes, so I didn't do it. But I slightly regret it to this. Are you tempted to do your voice-over voice when you're having an argument with Phil? Phil thinks he's always right. Rebecca has other ideas. End of part. I dent, credits, roll.

Yeah, that might be the end of a happy marriage if I started doing that, I think. It's interesting, though, isn't it? That, as I say, I remember looking at you when I saw you on, you were doing the day-to-day and you were doing, you know, must have been that first series, wasn't it? Yeah, Steve Coogan.

And I remember when I looked at you and I thought, God, that woman's so beautiful and kind of self-possessed. Oh, you. No, honestly, because I think I honestly had this idea that to be funny, you sort of had to be a certain way. Do you know what I mean? It was a bit Joan Sims or, you're coming around my house. No, absolutely.

That's what I kind of grew up with. You couldn't be young and beautiful and be funny. I think I grew up thinking exactly that. And I absolutely didn't set out to do comedy because I think there was a part of me that just thought, well, that's not very, like, elegant, you know, ladylike. I don't want to do that thing. And then I drifted into it because actually because I was auditioning for stuff at Oxford and I wasn't getting the part of Ophelia or purditor, you know.

And then people were just like, oh, you're quite funny. You could be the cookie maid. I remember a man once saying to me, men don't write loud girls. Oh, you're well out of that one. Because all the best men love loud girls. Do you think so? Loud, mouthy, funny girls. Yeah, of course they do.

I mean, surely you would want to be with someone who's going to make you laugh, wouldn't you? Someone who's going to just, you know, keep the conversation flowing. Maybe not. Actually, maybe, shall I ask Phil, should I text him and say, Darling, what is it that attracted you? Was it that I was mouthy and funny? Or was it actually that I just liked your cooking? You seem such a sunny natured, lovely person, Rebecca. Oh, Phil would find that very amusing.

No, I'm quite, I've got better as I've got older, actually. I'm not particularly, I don't get particularly angry, I do get quite moody. I get sulky about things and when things aren't going my way, I get cross and resentful. Oh, it'll be, you know, that, I think my biggest problem actually is that I'm very, really passive aggressive. So I don't say outright, you know, like somebody, Phil will say, for example, we've been invited to so-and-so's for lunch and I'll think, I really don't want to do that because I've got lines to learn on Sunday and I'm working, you know, I'm being picked up at 5am tomorrow. I just don't want to go.

But I won't say that. So consequently, the lunch plans go ahead and then in the run up to it, I'm just kind of quiet and sullen and feels what's wrong. And I eventually, in the car on the way there, we'll say, well, I didn't want to go, obviously. And he'll say, no, not obviously. You didn't tell me. If you told me, I would have said she's working tomorrow. So it's that. That's the sort of thing where I just get moody and sulky, whereas actually it would be so much easier if I just said, could we not do that.

because that's not a great day for me to do it. I'm the kind of person that goes, I'm a bit sunshine and showers, you know. I'm either like really happy, but then I do cry quite a lot. Yes. Do you cry? I do. Oh, yeah, definitely. And particularly, as I got older, I find it easier to cry very useful as an actor, obviously,

very valuable. But I do. No, I cry a lot. It really sometimes will just completely take me unawares. There was a very strange thing actually recently, because I'm Jewish. I'm, you know, from a Jewish family. family and I'm not very observant by any means and like most Jews I go to synagogue once a year for Yom Kippur which is the big fast day. Nobody enjoys it, no

one enjoys it. You sit in synagogue for nine hours and everybody's starving so everybody's breath smells and it's just it's really not fun. No even the rabbis will tell you it's not fun but I kind of love it because I'm with my family and my parents have always done it so my brother and I go and we sit with my parents and it's that's a wonderful thing. Anyway this year we couldn't go because of the pandemic. So the synagogue organized a Zoom Yon Kippur. My dad sent us a link.

So we all sat in our separate houses and we watched this zoo thing and we kind of messaged each other saying, you know, oh, I love this hymn or, oh, this is the bit where, you know, we usually get the giggles or those kind of things. And I, and at the time I remember thinking, oh, this is great actually because I don't have to go and sit there all day and uncomfortable chairs and stand up for hours, which she normally did. So it seemed to me like this was going to be the best Yon Kippur ever,

because it was stress-free. Actually, it suddenly really got to me, midway through the day, that actually Yon Kippur is not about sitting in uncomfortable chairs and not eating. It's about being with my family. And I suddenly wasn't with my family. And it got to me in a way that the whole lockdown hadn't got to me.

I'd been really gung-ho all the way through lockdown, getting up every day, doing my yoga, being very upbeat and on the phone to my parents and taking shopping around and being very, you know, very happy, happy, happy. and suddenly Yon Kippur on Zoom sitting on my own in the spare room watching it on a computer and texting my family that's what got me and I cried more that day than I've cried throughout the whole of this horrible year it just suddenly it's making me cry now suddenly got to me I just thought this isn't what life is it's just it's horrendous but to me that's the good reason to cry

because what you're doing is you're letting that out and I suppose I feel going back to looking at when you were a kid and that incident happened with your dad I do wonder if and it wouldn't have been anyone's fault but there just wasn't enough awareness about how to deal with trauma which that was then maybe just by school you know just by sort of people in general were even therapists and things that all should have come out and you should have processed it I'm just wondering if maybe you didn't get an opportunity to process no that's a that's a really shrewd point because I stopped going to school around that time I did end up having to go to therapy in order to transfer to a new school

that that was the local authority insisted that I had to go and see an educational psychologist for I think it was three sessions and they would then say yes all right you're okay to transfer to a new school or whatever and I remember these sessions being an absolute waste of time because they'd asked me these stupid questions like you know a frying pan is on fire and your mother is on the telephone what will you do and I was thinking what do you think I would do I I'd go and tell my mum. I'd say, get off the phone, Mom.

You know, I'm not an idiot. So there was all that going on. But the last session, I remember they said, now is there anything we've missed? We've got five minutes left, Rebecca. Anything you'd like to tell us? And I said, yeah, I thought I might mention that my dad nearly drowned.

They didn't know. They hadn't asked me about it because they didn't know. And it was that thing of, you're psychologist. Did you, sure that the first question should have been, has anything happened recently? But it might have upset you

a bit, you know. So yeah, I think things have changed. I hope times have changed and that people are much more aware of childhood anxiety now. So I know you've been working with Armanda Units again recently, haven't you? I have, yes. On this brilliant series, which is, it's HBO, isn't it? I watch it on Sky here, but it's called Avenue 5. Yeah. And it's one of my favourite jobs to do. I mean, It's my first American job for a start. Yeah. My first American TV thing. And, yeah, it's set on a space cruise.

So I think it's meant to be 30 years in the future. And it's, but it's suspiciously like a 1980s cruise ship. It's incredibly glamorous and lush and everything's gold and white and sleek and marbled and beautiful. The most wonderful design. And something goes catastrophically wrong in episode one and suddenly they're trapped. But what's, as with everything, that Armando does, there's a weird prescience about it. I mean, I have to say, when I first heard about it, I thought that's a hilarious idea, but I also thought, it doesn't really

sound like satire in the sense it's not like veep or it's not thick of it, you know, it's not obviously satirising. But he's so, he and the writing team are so clever because they tap into the zeitgeist and everything he does ends up being really prescient. So there was an episode of Avenue 5 that went out where, you know, they really are approaching catastrophe and they're all about to die. And there are warning signs around the ship, which basically say, you know, hands face space. These red and yellow warning signs

exactly like the ones that Boris was standing behind when he was giving all his warnings. And this had been filmed eight months before or something. It was the most uncanny thing. And it's like Amanda just has this sense of this is the way things could be going. And then he puts it into a comedy and it's hilarious but also really terrifying.

And the other one, which I also, I also really recommend people to check out because that's a lovely show. Was on the BBC earlier this year, wasn't it? Yeah, it went out during lockdown and I think as a result of that got a lot more attention than I think, than I expected it to. Yeah. I thought it deserved a lot of attention because it was a really good show, but I just, I expected it to just kind of be, you know, to get a little bit of notice. But as it happened, I think it really appealed to people. And it's a lovely show. It's Holly Walsh and Pippa Brown have written it and it's a sort of, it's a, female writing team, predominantly female cast, all about basically a big goodness relationship.

And it's just, I think it's beautiful, it's really nicely written. I play a very sort of passive-aggressive, slightly more aggressive than passive-assive this time. Passive-aggressive character. He didn't tend to often play quite passive-aggressive. My mum said to me recently that in recent years I've played, I mean, Karen in Abney Five is an exception to this, but I have played quite a lot of really not very nice women. Most notably, I was in a few episodes of Poldark, and she was a monster. She was an absolute monster that one.

And my mum said, What is it with you? Because I'm really sort of smiling and amenable, and I kind of just put up with any nonsense from anybody. I'm so not a sort of, you know, aggressive, horrible person. And I'm always being cast like that. So I don't know if maybe there's, I mean, it's fun. Don't get me wrong. They're fun parts to play. I don't know if maybe, is that something to do with the way society looks at older women, maybe?

think you're either going to be a victim or you're going to be a bully? I don't know. But it's interesting that I have gravitated towards those parts. Well, it's interesting in the book, Rebecca. I think those contain the two tropes of women. I've always felt that with that book. It's the young vulnerable girl. And Mrs. That's essentially what it becomes. You're going to be Mrs. Danvers. Which one are you going to be or the beautiful vulnerable narrator? And do you know what?

I'm good with Mrs. Sand. Oh, yeah. So much more fun. So much more fun. Yeah. I mean, I fully anticipate as I get, my hope is if I'm lucky enough to get properly old, that I can become more and more outspoken and terrifying. I want to be a sort of, you know, dowager duchess of terrifyingness.

Once I started having to wear reading glasses because I'm quite long-sighted so I need glasses to look at a text but in rehearsals I always have to have them perched on my nose so I can look at the other actors and I became aware that I was suddenly this rather terrifying woman who looked over her glasses at young men I thought I'm good with that

actually yeah I'm all right with that I've gone through the phase where I feel I have to be nice and lovely to people I'm now just going to terrify you into submission I love you saying if I'm lucky enough to get older such a lovely way of looking at life And I see it like that, you know, because I think so often we attach sort of, you know, this idea of it's all down here or misery to being old. And I, to me, I honestly meanness.

I genuinely feel it's such a privilege to get old. And I hear about your parents. And I think that's so amazing that they're still here. And I'm sorry not getting to spend so much time with them because that must be tricky with lockdown. But how lovely. I read that you've been in, they've been in the same house for, is it? 50 years or something. They were.

I mean, they've moved now. 54 years. Thank goodness they have. They're now closer to where we are. But yeah, they were in the same house where I think it was, yeah, about 52 years. And it was that, yeah, that was quite a thing moving out of it. It was the right time. It was the right time.

It was the biggest hoarders. Yeah, they are. They're not great at throwing stuff away. But there was a real continuity to that house. And I think when they moved, I think there was a slight anxiety from all of us that maybe it was the house that we, you know, we're such a close family. Maybe it was the house somehow that had that magic that held us all together. Of course it's not.

It's the people. So they moved and nothing changed at all. They've got a bit less space but it's all much more manageable. I should let you go enough. I could talk to this woman for ages. I've been having such a lovely time. Thank you for putting up with me. Would that be your effort off?

Send you the laundry bill for your jeans. I'm so sorry. Would that be your effort off? Thank you for putting up with me. I think it would. You know, I think it would. Thank you for me. putting up with me. I'd just like to thank you all. I could record that in my voice over voice

for my funeral, could not. I just like to thank you all for putting up with me. Please don't tune in for part two because I won't be there. What do you, I always ask people, what do you most fear people say about you when you leave a room? What do you most hope they'll say about you? So what do you worry they'll say first? Oh, that's interesting. I worry that they'll think I'm a downer, I think. And I think that's why I kind of put on a big show of being very upbeat a lot of the time because I worry they're just going to go, oh, God, she's dragged us all down, isn't she?

That's like the worst thing I could imagine. And what do you hope when you're good, you know, what do you hope that they would say? I hope they'll say that I made them laugh, actually. I think that's kind of like my greatest achievement. If I feel like I've genuinely cheered people up and really made them laugh, I feel like I've had a good day. You've really cheered really up. I hope so.

I feel my spirits are lifted from spending a couple of hours of you. I appreciate it's not possible for you to see everyone who listens to this podcast, but I really recommend a walk with Rebecca Bruns and Bailey. I'm here all week. Alternative to medication. I mean, do keep taking your medication. Yes, obviously. want to encourage anybody not to do that. But a nice walk and come and meet Bailey and yeah,

I'll be here. And Ray is so good of you. Ray is just is glued to my side now. I need to take you back to your cupboard. Before I want to ask you one more thing. I'll be on the walk back. I'm going to take advantage of the last minute. Rebecca, you lie to shop assistants, don't you? Because I do as well. Well, like the sort of the over politeness thing. Out of over politeness. So for example, I once went into the chemist, just down the road from here actually in South End Green, because I'd caught, I don't have kids myself, but I'd caught knits from my godchildren. Right.

And I had to buy knit shampoo, but I was ashamed that I was buying it to myself. So the man's, the chemist said, how many children? And I couldn't say, no, it's me. And at the time I was like, I'm a 35-year-old childless woman with knits. And I said, too. You invented children. That's absolutely brilliant.

But I'm only telling this is a pre-cursive and what happened to you. Yes, it was one of my madder moments. I was buying loads and loads of white chocolate buttons for a recipe. This is such a middle-class story. There's a brilliant Ivy cookbook recipe where you make chocolate sauce out of white chocolate buttons. And I thought even I can't screw that up. So I went to Iceland to buy loads of white chocolate buttons. There was like a bulk pack.

And then I just got embarrassed about the fact that I was buying so many white chocolate buttons. So I said, she hadn't even asked me. I said to the woman behind the counter, it's for a kid's party. And she sort of looked at me like I care, you know. And I said, it's her birthday. And again, she sort of, you know, really wasn't interested. And then I realized that the woman behind me had a daughter. in my kids class.

And I thought, well, she's going to know that it was, it's not my kid's birthday, because this is September or whatever, and my kids are not September. But it seemed at the time, it seemed quite logical to me because I thought, well, otherwise I'll be judged for buying too many chocolate buttons. I always worry about that. Well, the people are judging you on your shopping.

Yeah. Yeah, but do you judge people on their shopping, be honest? Yeah, that's why we worry about it, because you know that if you're looking at people's trolleys and thinking, oh, that's a lot of fanta for one person. Then, of course, they could be doing it to you. My kids actually called me out on it. You know, as they get older, kids are very good at picking up on all your foibles.

And they sussed out quite quickly that I was incapable of buying a job lot of anything unhealthy without saying to the person behind the counter, it's not all for me. In a jokey voice, I do it all the time. And I never do it with apples or plums or anything, but it's not all for me. They don't care. They don't care. They're just looking at their watch thinking, is it nearly my break time? Nobody is interested in how much chocolate I'm buying. It makes it worse when you go, don't all for me and they go, $4.99. Exactly. And they always do because they're not interested. That's the other thing actually is that there's an undercurrent with all of that that people are interested. People aren't, you know, really people don't care what you're buying. They've got a job to do. We've just got to stop saying sorry all the time. time, haven't we? If we just said sorry a bit less, then our lives would be so much easier. That's your homework for this week, Emily. Say sorry a bit less, and I promise I will too.

Sorry, no, I won't actually. Sorry, I'll be... Well, I'm not sorry. I was here today because, honestly, Rebecca, is in one of my favourite walks. I've loved it. I've loved Bailey. Even though, he's covered me in mud. I know. I am sorry about that, actually. I call these happy stains. No, scratch that. This sounds really dodgy. I have so enjoyed it. Thank you very, very much for having me. I've really loved it. Bye-bye, gorgeous, Ray.

You're sure? I've got really big pockets. You're quite sure I can't put Ray in one of my pockets and just take him home. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.