Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Reverend Kate Bottley (Part One)

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

We’ve taken Raymond on a trip to Nottinghamshire to the beautiful town of Retford to meet the fabulous Reverend Kate Bottley! Kate is a Church of England vicar - as well as being a journalist, broadcast and TV star. The Bottleys are big dog lovers - they’ve had a succession of rescue greyhounds, but they’ve recently adopted a wonderful puppy called Tony (who has a very fitting namesake…) Kate tells us all about the unexpected joy of adopting a ‘dog dog’ and how he’s been settling into his new life. Kate told us all about how she grew up in a non-religious family - and then how a teenage crush led to her discovering religion… She also tells us about being a show off, why she loves graveyards and why she’ll always pick up a ‘karma poo’. Follow @revkatebottley on Instagram You can buy your copy of Kate’s book Have A Little Faith: Life lessons on love, death and how lasagne always helps - here!You can listen to Kate on Good Morning Sunday - on BBC Radio 2 every Sunday from 6am! Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You're always a celebrity if you're a vicar. You can never fall have a taxi drunk outside the pub. It can never happen because you were spotted immediately. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I popped up to Nottingham to go for a stroll with one of the nation's most celebrated vicarers, the Reverend Kate Botley and her fabulously named dog, Tony. Kate first rose to fame when she officiated a wedding and led the congregation into a flash mob style dance.

It went completely viral and led to her becoming one of the stars of Bonnie. She's got a togglebox alongside her husband Graham. She's since gone on to become a much-love face on TV, appearing on everything from songs of praise to would I lie to you, an eight out of ten cats, and also has her own show on radio too, Good Morning Sunday. So I was really interested to chat to Kate properly and find out a bit more about her journey into the clergy

and how she'd ended up going from a school teacher and busy mum to a church of England vicar. Kate is genuinely such a fascinating person to chat to, and we chatted about pretty much everything from her childhood, growing up in what she describes as a working class family, her commitment to her faith and natural talent for public speaking, which eventually led to her becoming a vicar. And of course, her very close bond with her wonderful dog, Tony.

Kate is obviously a great communicator. It's a large part of what she does for a living after all. But she's also incredibly warm and open and easy to chat to. And best of all, she has one of the most hilarious dogs. I've ever met. So all in all, Ray Ray and I felt very blessed to get to spend the afternoon with her. And I can't wait for you to hear our chat. If you want more Kate, you can catch her on her radio two show Good Morning Sunday. I'm going to stop talking now and hand over to the brilliant woman herself. Here's Kate and Tony and Ray Ray. Ray's getting used to Tony now.

Well, it's a big lad. He's a lot. But you know what? He's just really enthusiastic about saying hello. He's a five months old. He's a five month old puppy, which is what, you know, is what they like, isn't it? That's what toddlers like. They won't think everyone's their friend. Come along, Ray. Come on, Tony, you go in front. Come on. Let's go, pumpkins. Oh, Kate, I've already fallen a bit in love with Tony.

He's a bit of a mad thing, really. We didn't mean to get him. It's one of those wonderful rescue stories where you get a dog that you didn't really mean. I know. And we're just trying him on this tension lead because his dog sitter is like, he's quite poorly. We need to work on that. He's absolutely full of beans, isn't it? Yeah, he just won't stop.

And we've always had greyhounds before. And if you know anything about greyhounds, they sleep about 21 hours a day. Do they? They're good sleepers? They don't move, really. Come on, Ray. To get a dog that is, like a dog dog, like bring sticks back and, you know,

sits and does things like that. It's just all a bit weird. We're going over a lovely bridge. You can probably hear the water. This is a great bridge. It's one of our favourite. The park was gifted to the people of the town. And it's just a really lovely park.

We literally live on the other side of it. So it's walking distance from our house. And we swim in this bit of river just here. And in the summer it's just full of kids on inflatables. And we have the town duck race on their Maybank holiday weekend. And the rugby club. I'm so sorry. The rugby club.

Tony, you're getting excited. I'm so excited. I think it's because I'm carrying rail. There's also another dog over there running around. And so we should say what park we're in, of course. We're in Kings Park in Rettford. We're not from this part of the world, really. We're from Sheffield originally.

But it's how we've just ended up here, really. And it's so nice to have this park on our doorstep. But Tony is at that wonderful stage of toddlerdom where he thinks everyone is his best friend. Every dog loves him. Every human loves him. And he has no boundaries. Do you let him off the lead ever, Kay?

I am thinking about it, but I don't know. I don't know that dog and that dog owner, so I would. But it seems like that dog's on a long line, so I don't think we're better. I don't think he's a very confident boy. So I'm up. Ab up. He's just over-excited. We'll go up into the top field and let him off on there.

And then he can have a better run around. Ray's just got a weird thing. Ray has a strange thing where he sometimes just objects to surfaces. So he won't run on. He just, it's like, you know, a horse at the Grand National? And they just refuse. He just refuses the grass. Or he's like, you know, I like sand.

I don't like pebbles. Well, it sounds like he's gotten in a greyhound then, because that's what they're a bit like. Oh, no. So it's a bit weird having a, it's a bit weird having a dog dog now. Because we've always had dogs that were a bit prescy and slept all day and didn't do very, because greyhounds are a bit delicate. Yeah, a bit like Ray.

So we didn't mean to, we didn't mean to adopt him really. He wasn't the dog we had in mind. Hello, Tony. But Tony's a great name as well. Well, he's named after the patron saint of Lost Things. We'll go this way. He went, his name. Yeah, so what happened was he was found on the streets of Nottingham as a stray.

And he was about 11 weeks old when he was found. We don't know anything else about him. I don't know where he came from, what his story was. And the greyhound kennel, where we've had our dogs from before, were picking up a greyhound that had been brought in. And they walked into the council kennels and sadly it's a kill kennel. It's one where they're put to sleep if they're not claimed or if they can't be rehomed. So that was what was going to happen to Tony.

Leave it. Good boy. So that was what was going to happen to Tony. He was going to be put to sleep. Yeah. And the Greyhound kennel were there to collect another dog, saw him, asked about him and they just said, oh, we'll take him. We'll find somewhere for him.

And I saw him on social media and went down the next day. with a friend. And that was that? And that was that really. So we've never had a puppy. We've never had a dog other than a greyhound. So it's a complete change for us. And he's doing okay.

Oh, he's ever so sweet. He's a sweet boy. But that's why he's called Tony, because the Patriot Saint Saint of Lost Things is St Anthony of Padua. So that's actually his proper name. Oh, is that right? Yeah.

So when you lose something, you're supposed to pray to St. Anthony. You'll help you find it. because he was lost and then he was found by us. I love that so much. We also think I quite like old man names for dogs.

Well, you're pushing it an open door here. It was nearly Martin. Ray, Raymond. It's just a great name. That's why I went for Raymond because I thought, I want to go for the kind of name

where it wouldn't sound out of place on the Sweeney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was nearly a Trevor. He was also nearly a Martin. We thought Martin was quite fun. Martin. Tony's the one

100%. So tell me Kate, I want to know your history with dogs because you grew up in Sheffield as you say. We were just never allowed one. I always wanted one, never allowed one because both parents worked. My dad worked in the steelworks

and my mum had like a million jobs. So I'm first generation female literacy so a very working class family. And when you say that, I mean I read your brilliant book which I'm going to talk to you about. Oh, thanks. I loved it. and your grandmother was she couldn't read could she yeah yeah yeah and my mom my mom had limited

literacy and numeracy as well yeah yeah yeah so my mom didn't learn to read until she was an adult and my grandma couldn't read at all um so I'm first generation full female literacy um which is a big deal you know I'm first first one to finish school first one to go to your knee that sort of thing um so yeah so my mom and dad had to talk work really hard to make money to pay bills and so dogs you know that meant that there was no one in the house during the day so dogs went firmly off the and animals unless you know as you say unless unless they're working for you that's an expensive they're expensive but also there's no one in the house to look after them right you know we spent a lot of time as kids in the school holidays and stuff

just looking after ourselves and that was because mum and dad were working that's you know mom had I think she had six jobs at one point. And was it kind of the house that you grew up in? Was it a sort of terrorist house? Yeah, a terrace house. Lou in the back garden. Did you have outside toilet? Yeah, we had an outside toilet.

We didn't, we got one when I, we got indoor plumbing when I was little. And I do remember getting central heating. I remember getting double glazing. We didn't have any of those things. My dad built our bathroom. So lots of that sort of stuff going on in working extra shifts to pay for things. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, that was, it was a great.

We had a backyard, we had Mr and Mrs. Sacks next door, and Mr. Mrs. Wildsmith, two doors down. It was a great community. In fact, I drove through it the other day and was a bit nostalgic. It was a bit of quite like to live in a terrace house again. It was quite, I mean, you only remember the good stuff, right? Yeah. I don't remember putting the cricket bull through next door's greenhouse and getting shouted at,

that kind of things. You only remember the good stuff. Was your background, Kate? Was it quite sort of strict or was it? No, no, it was a, I had quite a relaxed. households. Mom and dad were, mum and dad and I got an older brother who's four years older David. We had a great time. Big huge extended family, lots of aunties and uncles, lots of hanging out with each other's houses, family parties, that sort of thing. We'll go along

the canal this way. Lots of going to cricket and rugby, lots of sporty stuff. And we did have a family dog. We had Pepe the Poodle, the miniature poodle that was my grandma's dog. In fact, we used to call her peppy nana, was how we used to identify her. because good boy. That's how we used to identify. It was Pepe Nannan, so that everyone knew which Nannan we were talking about. I want to put it back on the lead.

Don't worry. You're sure. Have you all right? You're sure. It's just that Ray will take forever. I put him down, but I know he will so slow us down, Kate. And you're a busy woman. You're doing the work of the Lord?

This Pepe the Poodle, this miniature poodle, was my grandma, my Nana, absolutely idolized this dog. To the point that we used to go to the seaside as kids, kids, all the grandchildren would get a cone of chips and the poodle would get a fish. So the poodle would get the fish and the ice cream cone and we'd get just a little coat of chips to share. And I remember his breath and she said him died pink and had little bows put in his hair. Sounds like my kind of grandma, if I'm honest. So we had family dogs and the other family dog we had was a dog called, oh gosh, Toby,

which was a some sort of terry. cane terrier kind of thing he was lovely so I always you know love dogs I'm always interested in people who go into you know the ecclesiastical life as you have how that started were you brought up in a very religious family no absolutely not christened as babies like lots of people are yeah just going past a weir on the canal oh isn't it beautiful it looks ever so lovely now that's what the rushing waters is Yeah, we christened as babies like lots of people are but never taken to church. Didn't even go to Brownies.

Didn't even go to church school. I started going to church in my teens because I'm a friendship group that I was part of, went to church. And because there was a boy there that I really liked the look of. And so I started going to church because he went to church. And we've been married for 27 years. This is Graham. You're the whole. Yeah, that's it.

That's him. So actually the religion thing That happened as you say Almost by chance Yeah well I think But you must have been quite I suppose a spiritual person Yeah I mean I think

I think most people are I think most people You know I think the box on the census form Asks the wrong question It says what religion are you And I think if it had a box that said Rather than Christian Jewish Muslim If I think if it had a box that said

Well I'm not sure what I really believe But I do hope that my granny's in a better place Everybody would take that right So I think that most people have a sort of inquiring mind about the things of faith and spirituality. And it's something that despite secularisation, despite a changing culture, we seem to still need the stuff of faith and belief. We seem to need to think that there's bigger stuff than us. We're just going under this lovely arch now.

Oh, isn't it beautiful? And this is, what is it? So this is the Chesterfield Canal. So this is the way that most of the sort of building. building materials and goods used to get around the place. It was by canal. Of course, they're not transported by that because the railways came along and the roads came along.

But this is still a working canal for tourist and pleasure boats and stuff like that. You really know your area. I'm not used to this. I mean, this is like a proper professional. You can tell you a radio presenter. It's like a Radio 4 broadcast. And we're now walking past the Chesterfield Canal. We're not used to this case.

I just need to make sure that people listening can't hear the sloth. of water and things. Are they actually on the loo? I don't want people to think it's a flushing toilet on this podcast. It's definitely a lock being opened and nothing else. So yeah, we've just we've got another, I think that, is that a look of cockapoo or something coming towards us. It is. Little cockapoo. Hello. He's lovely, he's just loopy. And brand new. Oh, there we go. Is that a cover or a cocker poo? Australian Labrudeau. Oh, is it Australian Lapidoo?

Oh, pretty. I'm a sucker for a ginger. Mind you so is my husband. Nice to see you. See you later. One of the things that I do get a really clear sense of is even though you may not have had that vocational sense, you know, from an incredibly young age. Bless you, have a nice day. Just realised who it was.

That lady said, come on, you're not the vicar, are you? Happens all the time. That's why she said, I think we've met before. I've never met before in my life. But it happens a lot. You don't like to correct people. I once had a full-scale conversation with someone on a train who was absolutely adamant.

I went to school with them. And I definitely didn't. Anyway, you were saying. Yeah, I was just saying that clearly what was there, even if you didn't know at that point that you were destined, you know, to have a life in faith, as you have gone on to have, it was very clear it seems from a very early age that you

you had what and I use this all the time this phrase but I think it's a handy way of describing it I call it the look at me jean oh the showing up oh I'm desperate attention seeking I love it I love being the centre of attention are you kidding me it's absolutely great give me a microphone no audience it's my joy you know we're not supposed to say it oh yeah I remember especially you know as a as a little girl and in a working class community very used to women making, I mean, women were definitely in charge behind closed doors, but you know, you didn't make too much of yourself, oh, Katie's a dreadful show up. You know, we're going off our Katie, all that sort of stuff.

But I just can't help her. I absolutely love a spotlight in me, I'm kidding, mate's brilliant. But I wonder if that's how sometimes people, you know, if you think about it, I think Vickers and also, see what happens here oh yeah what's happening here see what happens is this a Labrador okay I think it might be looks like a lovely little Labrador this one's a bit loopy I for I apologize in advance there we go let him sort it out good boy oh well done Tony well good good boy wait wait wait it's funny isn't it sometimes you meet

people are absolutely fine yeah yeah so I know you just never a hundred 100% no. And I'm always, I'm a great believer in like you let dogs sort it out. Yeah, I know. It's a dog. So another dog went for him the other day. And the other dog was absolutely justified in going for him. He was being too excitable. We're in the dog park. And the other dog sort of turned on him and hurt him. And my dog was limping. Well, the owner was absolutely distraught. I was like, they're dogs. It's fine. He's going to have, he's going to have a half a paracetamore when he gets home and lay on the surf with a hot water bottle. He'll be fine in half an hour. He's a puppy. it's part of his learning is to learn that he cannot be friends with everybody and he will get into scrapes every now and again so I'm a great

how's you going off there he's just having a little sniff he's all right come on Tony he's just all that whole kind of yeah I'm a great believing just letting the dogs just sort it out yeah well also I think sometimes it's like dogs will snap at all the dogs not bite but snap they're just teaching them and they just say like I noticed ray doing it sometimes I think it's fine he's an old dog and he sometimes says no I'm not anymore and the other dog goes okay yeah yeah I've learned something yeah that's okay that's one of the reasons why we socialize our pets yeah you know Tony's socialization is the most important thing which is why we take him to the dog park for him to run around with crazy other dogs get a little snap every now and again that'll teach him his place because I don't know the story I don't know whether he had litter mates I don't know what

I don't know what kind of parenting is that I don't know what his mom's done for him you know he was picked up on the streets so everything's a learning experience for him This kind of interest you had in performing. Oh, yeah. I know when you were pretty young, you went on a holiday, was it? Yeah, I won a talent contest, stage five. Yeah. Shuffed on the stage.

It was a real kind of pivotal moment. I was very shy as a little girl, really. And I remember that talent show in Saloo, in Costa del Sol getting put on the, just going to print it back on the league because there's no dog. Wait. Yeah, I find that so interesting, Kate, that I suppose it's a bit like back. harristers in some ways that you know I wonder if they start off as well like because with that sense of oh I like having an audience oh there's definitely

performance aspect to me I mean you'll meet introverted clergy as well of course sure but you do have to have some oh that's kind thank you thank you so much hello puppy are so cute say hello yeah so okay this one's only a little one there's a lovely lab what kind of dog is it a lab is it a lab is Park Holly What a lovely mix. You're very excited. What's the name? This one is out.

Rudy. Rudy, aren't you lovely? Bye, Rudy. You're tired. You're going to sleep well tonight. That's a good boy. Bye. Wait.

So when did the interesting faith start? So it was at school. I got invited along to church by a group of friends. And then there was this, so I was just started going on a Sunday night. was a youth club there was you know there was a pop and Chris there was boys there we listened to music we talked about some stuff and the same people that I saw at church on a Sunday I saw in my classroom Monday to Friday so it was friendship really and then there came a sort of pivotal moment where a very old friend of mine from primary school said oh you've started hanging out with these new

people that go to church and I was like yeah come there to new friends and all that sort of stuff and she said so you're religious then I said I don't think so do you believe in God and it was that one question. So I just asked the question, do you believe in God? And I realised in that moment I'd gone from a place of not really being sure, not, I mean, I'm still not sure, it's called faith in it, it's not called sure. I went from that moment of not really having a faith that I expressed to go, no, actually, yeah, I do. Something's changed. And I've come to a place of believing in something bigger than me. And I think that the word God is quite a heavy word. I I think it's got quite a lot of baggage attached to it.

I think the word religion's got a lot of baggage attached to it. And so sometimes the God that people tell me they don't believe in, I don't believe in either. So, you know, it's the sense of something bigger. The sense of something that we're not just walking, talking meat lollipops, that there's more to our existence. Hello again. Do you know what's nice about Nottingham?

Everyone says hello to you, even if they're... Well, you see that a bit further north than Nottingham. I think it's because I'm with you. you that people think oh it's the vicar i feel safe well also i just talk to everybody anyway yeah i talk to absolutely everyone that's what i do so i was fine you know well you've let us tag along with you i forget i forget that not everybody chats really but i love it i love a chat so do i kate i really i wish people did it more and that's why i love dog walking because if you go up to people and say hello or have a brief conversation if i went up to that man just now that we met with the lab collie

cross and I said oh hello I like your trainers he'd think I was weird but I can say I love your dog you've got dogs do you know what I mean it's like I'm not breaking the social contract and you also when you when you when you start I mean we didn't have a dog for about two and a half years and that was one of the things that I really missed was um you didn't I don't know anyone's name I didn't use to know anyone's name but I knew all their dogs names and I'm now I'm just Tony's mom you know like I used to be Buster's mom um you know you you recognize people's dogs so there's a There's a guy that I meet sometimes walking the dogs and his dogs are called Poirot and Hastings. That's good.

It's great, isn't it? And I know Poirot and Hastings. I have no idea what the mansinate called. We've chatted for hours about all sorts of things. No idea who he is. It's Poir and Hastings. I love it. I meant to bring chicken out, but I'm afraid we've got a bit little class in his snacks today.

He's got Manchego wrapped in Chiritsa. Oh, I love. I love that for him. Gravybones and Manchego, you posh thing. Oh, you've changed. But our middle class, there you go, sweet. Have you man, there you go? I've got a chonks as well.

And here's the water. Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug. We like to drink with Ray, because Ray is our mate. And when we drink with Ray, he gets it down in eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. I don't think you want Ray on your rugby team.

But I'm interested to know, you know, you were talking about how your friends were saying, oh, you're hanging out with this sort of church people now, as it well, or you know, you're into... Yeah. Not everybody was very happy about me. They weren't? They weren't?

No, of course now. I think my mom and dad thought I joined a cult. They were... It was just the church of England. I had to reassure them. It's just going to be cake and tea. But yeah, they thought I was going to start shaving my head and wearing crazy robes and, you know, all that sort of stuff.

And, you know, I was 15 at the time. I had to reassure them that this was probably quite a good thing. I wasn't going to go. I wasn't going to run off or anything. It was going to be alright. Why can't she be off taking drugs with the tan? sealing cars like normal teenagers. Why do you think that is, Kate, that there's a sort of inherent...

And you're right, I can see that, you know, suspicion around that almost. What do you think that is based on? Well, I think that a lot of times the church particularly has been, and lots of religions have been a tool to control people. But, you know, the opium for the masses, isn't it? It's that idea that this is something that... Wait, good boy, he knows where he's going. So we're going to go around the old Victorian...

of the graveyard and of course I'm going to have my dog on a lead at the whole times in the graveyard because that's what was supposed to do I'm so glad you're so responsible I'm so responsible and grown up so this is this is one of my favourite places to walk I love it and I love I unexpricingly I love cemeteries and graveyards it's like going to the office yeah not everybody I think I think the thing is about religion is it's being used as a tool to control people and to make people feel bad about themselves. But of course, because I came to faith from a non-faith background, if you like, from a culturally Christian background.

So you weren't indoctrinated into it, if you like. Yeah, we weren't made to go. It was a choice. It was a choice for me. I didn't have a lot of the baggage that other people seemed to have when it came to belief. And so what that also meant is

I didn't always realise how you were supposed to do things. And that's the same, being a vicar now. you know I wander into places and I've got no idea that there's old boys clubs and codes and rules and I thought when people asked me which college I went to they were genuinely asking me which college I went to which because they're not they're asking is that religious college you mean which brand of which brand of Christianity are you evangelical or you're this or you that and I'm like I just sort of believe in God and is there also a status thing attached to it like you went to Durham or yeah of course I mean it's old boy network in it's the same in any of those kind of professions here

He likes the tap sometimes. And were you... Here's an interesting thing, Kate, I wonder. Were you someone that was sort of well-behaved, head girl, always delivered academically? Very good girl. Always behaved myself. So I guess...

People copied your homework. Yeah, becoming religious was a bit of a rebellion, actually, in a lot of ways. It felt like it's sort of... And it still does feel like that. You know, there's... I mean, it's getting less and less. as I get older, but especially, I remember when I was first ordained in my early 30s and,

you know, you go out clubbing in town and people have got, so what do you do for a living? And you go, actually I'm a vicar. That's just that glorious moment when they go, you're not. It's just perfect. When you made the decision to do that, which must have been, was it after you went to university because you were an R.E. teacher originally, weren't you? Yes, an RE teacher, a couple of kids. We had two children, been married for a little while.

And then... Did you like teaching? I loved it. I bet you were a great teacher. Oh, thank you. I like to think so. I really do like to think so. I would have been like, oh, thank God.

Well, you weren't Mrs. Botley then, were you? I was Miss Stevenson to start with and then Mrs. Botley, but I was definitely one of those RE teachers that when the kids got me on their timetable, they went, yes. Yeah, which I really liked. Hi. All right. Yeah, I loved it.

And I taught in quite tough, tricky schools with, and I taught RE, so nobody wanted to do RE. did they so i just did my best at kind of trying to make it as interesting as possible i've had it so interesting your book i loved it and one of the things you discuss just with regards to sort of religious education i realized something kate when i read your book which is i'm from that generation because i'm you know gen x where religious education was mandatory so i had it all through primary school weekly i had it up until you know gcc or whatever i don't think I even realised this, how much it kind of informed my understanding of things like Chaucer or

history of art or history. Absolutely. Absolutely. I suppose it's so interesting now that. There's not that around. My daughter's, my daughter's an English teacher. She starts in September with her first full-time job and she's teaching Shakespeare and Chaucer and all that stuff. And the cultural frame of references just aren't there anymore. So she'll show a picture of like, I don't know, they'll be doing something about, I don't know, I can't even think of an example, but she'll show them a picture of the Virgin Mary holding a baby and to those kids it's just a mum and a baby. They don't know who that is.

They've got no idea who that is because it's not in their cultural frame of reference anymore. Have you got a spare poo bag? I'm just going to do what we call a calmer poo. You know what I've got? We call it a calmer poo in our house. What's a calmer poo? That's not his poo.

That's another dog's poo. But I know he will have been a poo on some walk at some point. We can do a makeshift poo bag? Okay. I've done this before. chuck this off the back. Because I think I used my last poo bag weirdly. I think I've used my last poo bag. But you know what? Oh no I've got one. There we go, I've got one. We've got these as well if necessary. So I'll explain because this is quite a nice story. So I've got one of those

dogs who is terrible. When he goes to the loo, he does it miles and miles away. I've got no hope of finding it in the undergrowth. So I often do what I call a calmer poo. You don't do the poo. No, no. What I do is I pick up another dog's poo to balance out the universe because I just think somebody's dog's obviously done a poo and they've not noticed because that's what happens right so if I pick this one up and put this one in the bin then when my dog does a poo that I don't notice that means we've kept the universe in balance a little right that's how this works I love that so we call it a calm a poo and it's just looking out for other dog owners and going I've got you let's not let's

look after each other let's not get a bad name for dog ownership so but it is a bit changing another baby's nappy. Like it's okay when it's your baby but if you change another baby's nappy it's a bit... yeah I'm fine with Ray's poo's yeah it doesn't bother me of Tony's poo don't by the middle but another duck oh yeah makes me ill disgusting muggers. It's cold as well when you pick it up oh when you were ordained and that's how that's what you call it yeah yeah ordained back in 2008 but the first sort of female priest I was looking this up was it around 1994? 94 was the first ordination of women in Church of England.

That feels pretty recent. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're at that age. I mean, I don't know how old you are, but we are at that age when the 90s seems like really recent. It really wasn't. But yeah, 94 was the first time that women were ordained into the Church of England. The URC Church, the United Reform Church had women's ordination for 100 or so years before that. And the Methodist Church had women's ordination for a few years before that.

But we took a little bit longer to catch up in the Church of England. But what I mean by that is... You didn't have hundreds of years of history to look at in terms of I can do this. Well, what we did. As a woman? Yeah, well, what we did have was the first witnesses to the resurrection were women. The first people to find the empty tomb was Mary Magdalene. The woman to stand at the bottom of the cross.

All the men had cleared off. All the disciples, they've been his mates for so long. They were nowhere to be seen, but it was his mother and Mary's best friend Mary that stuck with him. So we took our examples from them. And if you do a very careful reading of lots of the early church documents, there are women all the way through it. It's just because the documents were written by men for men. Their names aren't known and you have to look really carefully for them.

But they are there. There's one called Junior, Junior J-U-N-I-A. She, it was a deacon in the early church. And the people translating the documents were so confused because Junia's a woman's name. They thought, oh, the person must have spelt it wrong. They must mean Junius, a man's name, so they just changed their name. But actually, it was a woman, but they couldn't believe that a woman would have been important.

So they are there, but patriarch, that old, you know, chestnut patriarchy. Did you get any resistance when you were starting out? Do you? Still do, yeah. To being female? Yeah. Really? And sometimes people don't even know they're doing it.

You know, I had it this morning on social media. I preached at Sutherlminster yesterday for their Pentecost festival. So, you know, big cathedral, really important service. I've been asked to preach, so I go and preach. And somebody in the comments and ran in the comments said, well, don't you own a hairbrush? It's like, what? So there I am in like my robes, preaching in a really important place,

people listening to what I've got to say. And all someone can say is, don't you own a hairbrush? Because obviously that's the thing that really matters, is that my hair was a bit, a bit, you know, a right. So you get that? You get people who, I mean, it is less and less, but you do get... Well, you get that if you're a woman? Yeah, of course.

Of course. And, you know, I interviewed Richard Coles, you know, there's some stuff that he'll get that I don't get, but there's very much lots of stuff I get that he would never be said about him. Right. Because he's a bloke. Of course.

And because his accent fits and because his education fits and all those things. You know, I have had people say to me before now, you're actually quite bright aren't you? You're just like, what gave it away? Was it the two degrees? You know, so you do, there's always, I mean, you know, perhaps I've got a bit of a chip on my shoulder about it,

but there is still a corner to before. There's still, we do still have to stand our ground a little bit and go, no, no, no, I won't be silenced. You won't make me small. Well, you know, Frank Skinner, who I work with and is a very dear friend of mine, but he, obviously, as you probably know, he's, uh, Tony.

He's the other, he's the other, the other side. He, well, he's a cradle Catholic, isn't he? Yeah. Lovely man. Come here. Great person of faith. And he rediscovered his faith as well, didn't he? Had a re-in-he stance on his faith. Would you know what's interesting?

I notice how, I think I understand what his faith means, you know, what it, what role it plays in his life now, that it's about, not only on the one hand is it a kind of, I suppose, a kind of moral check for him, that he's got. this set of guidelines to live by. Yeah. And it's, but I can also see how that it plays a big structural part of his life. It's like, it's the spine of his life. Yeah.

That Sunday, that confession. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we do all that. I mean, when you say it's for the other side, I'd argue it's the same side. Oh, it's all the same side. It's just a, just a different expression of it. That's all. Yeah.

That's what I would argue. But, yeah, I mean, I love ritual. I love, you know, I love that I've got somewhere to put things. So when my mum died two years ago, there were things I knew what I needed to do. Hello, Lovelace. Hello. My mum died two years ago, I knew that there was prayers for that moment and there was things that can be said. And there can open a book.

And when you're thinking, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do, there in a book is some words that you can say right now. And here is a candle to light and here is a place to go. And here's ritual. And what I find is that it doesn't matter what you're ex-examination. expression of faith or non is, people are still looking for that sort of ritual, really. They don't know what to do. You know, I'm going to go this way. Do you think that's why, Kate, you know, now that we live in a largely, I'm sure you'd

agree, a much more secular society. Do you think that's why people have suddenly rushed to embrace mindfulness and wellness culture and it just shows that there will always be... I'm going to a secret. It's just the same thing. but that's what I think it's just the same thing it's just got a new shiny package that's all

right because people don't want to say the god word or the religion word or they don't want to sign I mean look at membership to all organisations is dropping right political affiliation everything you mean look at the way that our children express their sexuality these days you know it's no longer gay straight by it's just like people

you know when I talk to my children about their sexuality or gender anything like that things are much softer around the edges and I think that's a brilliant thing and it seems that that is culturally what's happening to a lot of things. People just don't feel the need to be binary in their expressions of anything, which can be confusing for older people, can be confusing for people of a generation where you signed up to something

and you stood for something. But for the people that are coming through now, for my kids, I mean, they're so exciting. I mean, conversations with 20-year-olds about belief and religion because they're like, oh, I'll have a bit of that. And it's like countdown when they're choosing the numbers. They'll have two from the top and three from the bottom. please Carol, it's fantastic. I love it. You know, and who am I to, who am I to police anybody

else's spirituality? Who am I to do that? I can only police my own. So I love ritual. I love the parameters that my Christian faith gives me the boundaries, the, the, the roadmap, I guess, where it says, okay, you know, I mean, I remember leaving the house on the day of my mum's funeral and I opened my prayer book and it said, prayers for on the day of the funeral. And we stood there as a family and we had words to say. You know, when the dog died, we had words to say. I mean, you know, the kids knew exactly what they wanted to do. We went into the garden, we buried his lead and his collar,

we said some prayers, we let a candle. It gave us that structure, you know, which is really helpful. So if it's helpful, it's helpful, right? But for me, my faith is less about control and telling me what to do. It's more about knowing that I'm really loved. I'm really loved by the very author of loving the universe, by the very entity that I believe brought love into being, whatever you want to call it, I call it God. That same creator of the universe, that same author of everything, loves me, infinitely. And I go to bed every night knowing that I am loved.

No matter what a mistake or mess up I've made that day, I am loved. and that is a very powerful thing to know that I'm loved. It's great. How lovely. And that fills me with joy. And when the church has been an absolute arseal, which it is from time to time,

or somebody's been mean to me, or we talk about people that we exclude, you know, the church is a great thing and I love it dearly, but it does make some awful mistakes from time to time. Yeah. So I remember that I'm loved. You can hear the train.

line that's the main east coast train line that goes up all the way up to Scotland and all the way down to London is that the one we would have got this morning take you about an hour and a half to get back into London it's very quick you know it's really quick I'm thinking we're going to come to Nottingham it's not actually Nottingham is it no it's nottingham sure so it's more it's actually more Doncaster than it is it's a bit of an oman's land it's a bit of a neither here nor there we're now from Sheffield and an hour from Nottingham Redford's our new place, isn't it? We like to hear.

I'm so friendly. And I'm interested, when you started your religious training, it was actually another sort of member of the clergy, wasn't it, who said you were working as a church warden? Yeah, church warden. So, and a PA to the Vicar. So just doing like office work. I love the Vicar having a PA.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speak to my PA, please. Vickers need PAs. Some of them are so badly organized. I can't even tell you. Yeah, I was a PA to the Vicar. So just basically, you know, looking after the phone call, answering the phone calls, doing the office stuff, which I was absolutely terrible at.

What did you say? Hello, Judge. Can I help you? That sort of thing. People try and book funerals and things. I was absolutely awful at it because people would phone up to like ask about like servicing fire extinguishers. And I wouldn't let them leave. We'd end up going out for lunch and things.

I just get talking to them. And I think it was at that point that Mavik went, I don't think it's really office work you're called to. I think perhaps a more pastoral ministry might be it. How nice are that? They could obviously spot that you had some sort of calling in that area. And that's how you called. You know, you don't know see your careers advise and go, I want to be a vicar. That's not how it works.

What happens is you are called by the people you serve. There's a moment in the ordination service where you turn to face the congregation. And the bishop says, is it your will that Kate Botley be ordained? And the church say it's their choice. It's their choice. So they could, it's a bit like, what's the thing you say in the marriage service, Kate, when you ask if anybody has any objections? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you have to do a sort of judge's houses? Yeah, we, so when you get selected for ordination, and you're only selected for training, until the moment you're, until the moment the bishop puts his hand on your head at any point, anyone can say no. So I gave up full-time work. Graham gave up full-time work. We moved to a whole new city.

To Nottingham, yeah. Yeah, to train for two and a bit years. Are you refusing, Ray, Ray? I want to take a picture of him on this little tree stomp. How adorable. Because I think he looks like a little lord of the forest. He does look like. We should make him a flower crown of some sort.

Yeah, let's put him here. Sometimes I see things like a beautiful tree stomp. I've got to have it. And I think I need to remember that because. Actually, I look back at old things. I think, what a lovely day that was with Kate and Tony. And it will remind me of that. But yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, you're called by the people you ought to serve. And you go away to this kind of, you have a mad selection process where you have to have, like, interviews, and that's the train going past again. There it goes. You have to have to have these kind of, like,

loads of interviews, you have to write essays. And you go to, at the end of that sort of process, you go to this, what's called a Bishop's Advisory Panel. And you go to, it's like the X Factor Judge's house in the middle of nowhere, and they kind of watch you have your breakfast. and see how you interact with people and psychosometric testing

you know, make sure you're not crazy or anything. Well I suppose also it's to see if you have the suitable temperament because you've got to get on with everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always think it's really weird that they take you to a country house in the middle of nowhere with lots of other potential vickers. They should take you to a supermarket or like a pub.

If they want to see if you can talk to normal people, don't put you in a room without people who might want to be vickers. Because, of course you can talk to them. Can you talk to the... woman that serves you at Morrison's because actually that's more important as a person who works in a community as a community leader yeah what's happened to those I wonder about the ones that didn't get through where are they now the other gorgeous houses well you know a few a few people have to go a couple of

times before they'll say yes to them and then other people not my Kate no I was I was I was in and out of there very quick I did warn them though I did say look I have the attention span of a toddler so if you don't snap me up I'm gonna I'll find something else to do so you need to get working quick and you did the first time I think you were on most people's radar it's fair to say and you kind of broke through gobble box no it was the video that went viral the flash mob viral video yeah that was a big thing wasn't it which was you were doing a wedding weren't you yeah wedding in my parish church where i was vicar uh gary and tracy and um we did a dance to Everybody dance now.

Like that. And it got posted on YouTube and got 10 million hits. We've just seen another dog. No, don't worry. I'm sorry about this. And this one's very friendly as well. What is he? Is he a little Jack Russell or something?

He's lovely. You don't often get little black and white ones like that. It's his half and half face. Has he got pauliness? He's lost to there. They're all right, that was really. Really? I didn't know that.

Happens to lots of men in their old dirtage. They're falling out, doesn't it? What a lovely little Jack Russell. He's a cute thing. Do you see Kate? He's quite a gent. He likes the path. He doesn't like to go off many.

I don't really like to walk on the grass. So go on. So you did, how did they approach you and say, look, we know this is a bit weird. No, it was sort of. idea really because I'm I'm the vicar that likes to say yes so that and everybody wants something a bit different and they went what what will you do and I did the dance to the whole yeah yeah it went a bit it went and I freed I freestyled it and

so it went a bit mad but yeah it was great it was great fun and I didn't we never expected it they posted it on YouTube we never expected it to go as far as it did it got to about 10 million views 10 million hits on YouTube and then Gogglebox phoned off the back of that Did you get criticism for that? Yeah, of course. What did people say? That you shouldn't be dancing in a church.

Somebody said it was blasphemous. It was like doing an abortion on the altar, someone said. I know, right. Shocking, isn't it? People said that I was going to burn in hell. Some people just said I couldn't dance, which I found more offensive, to be honest with you, because I can dance.

Yeah, but it's fine. They're just crossed. They're not cross with me. They're just for themselves. They're just weird. You know, but I still get it now. At the time, it really upset me, but I'm much better now at filtering all that out

because I get a lot of it, and it's just thinly, a lot of the time it's thinly veiled misogyny or snobbery. People mistake holiness for taste. Just because they think it's bad taste. Don't mean it's not holy. Do you know what?

They're like, it's like, I went to a silent disco in a cathedral the other week. People were kicking off about a silent disc going to cathedral. If it'd been ballet, nobody would have batted an eyelid, would they? They're just snobs. That's all that is. It's just snobbery. and I've got no time for that

you're right you know we are not the custodians of taste we're not the custodians of taste you know it's fine if you don't like it weren't your wedding were it and there's always a reason like you say I notice something when I work with Frank who's so he's someone who really

champions women Frank Skina yeah you know and and I notice when I get because a lot of his fans it's that you know the old 90s football thing there's a lot of those Men of a certain generation, and they'll say, that woman. They always call me that woman.

And I think it's so interesting that whenever someone is offensive, I don't mind someone just saying, oh, I don't like you, but when it's offensive, it's always prefaced by that woman. And I think how interesting, that's a choice. Yeah, of course. Because what you're saying is you're less of a person. I'm not even going to bother to Google your name. Yeah, yeah, that woman.

And then with me as well. You probably get that woman. Yeah, yeah, all the time. That woman. you're never off that. People get very cross that I'm on TV and it's largely a certain kind of bloke and what I hear when they say it

is why are you getting the attention and I'm not? No, it's true. Why are they listening to you? In fact, I had it once. I was preaching at some Oxfordbridge colleges I did some after-dinner speaking there. You know, I'm good at what I do and I was preaching at these Oxfordbridge colleges

and a male colleague came up to me and went, what have they asked you for? And I went, do you mean why haven't they asked you? Anyway, and he started backtracking and I went, they've asked me because I'm really good. I'm really good at what I do. That's why they've asked me and not you. Now you might be really good at it too, but they don't know you, they know me. So, hello, lovely.

So I just, I've started owning it. I'm too old. And, you know, that's the gift that depleting estrogen gives as well, is you just don't give an actual monkeys. Isn't it great? It's so great. It's so great. Well, do you know what I think it's partly to do with? is that I realise most of my life, probably up until if I'm really honest, the age of like, you know, my early 40s,

everything was driven by, but will that make me look unattractive? And what I mean by that is un-feminine? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not trying to get anyone to breed with me. I'm not ovulating, it's not making me, it's not making me insane. Yeah, I mean, even if it's, you know, it was never intentional, but of course, everything within you is, must breed, must produce young, that's the evolutionary aspect. Can't sound aggressive, you know. Can't sound, you know.

I'm really good at what I do. I didn't used to be I used to be like oh this has all happened by chance and yeah of course there's been look along the way but I've made the most of an opportunity that's come along to me and I'm riding a wave and I'm going to ride it for as long as I can and the reason why I'm on the telly and I'm on the radio is because I'm good at what I do I'm good at what I do. You are good at what you do. Yeah and I'm going to own it. I'm not having it anymore I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat it'll be out on Thursday so whatever you do don't miss it and remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.