Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Rory Cellan-Jones with Sophie from Romania (Part Two)

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

We’re back in West London with Rory Cellan-Jones and Sophie from Romania! In this part of our conversation, we discuss Rory’s Parkinson’s diagnosis, what it’s like to host a podcast with Jeremy Paxman and how he feels about being known for being Sophie’s dad. Follow @rorycellan on InstagramRory’s written a brilliant book which follows the real journey of Sophie’s adoption – from her battles with anxiety, to the joys of play and her first time outside – as Rory and his wife Diane work to win Sophie’s trust and navigate Rory’s Parkinson’s disease. It is a moving story of love, kindness and a lot of patience, paying tribute to rescue dogs and their tender community. You can buy your copy here!You can get your copy of Ruskin Park hereYou can listen to Movers and Shakers: a podcast about life with Parkinson’s wherever you get your podcasts! You can listen to Emily and Ray’s walk with Jeremy Paxman from August 2020 here Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with Rory, Kethlyn Jones and Sophie from Romania. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already. And do, by the way, read Rory's brilliant book about his journey with Sophie. It's called Sophie from Romania, A Year of Love and Hope with a Rescue Dog, and I absolutely loved it. I'd also love it if you gave us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Rory and Sophie from Romania and Ruiway. This is before you'd got Sophie.

This is when you had cabbage. but it was around 2019, I want to say, that you were diagnosed with Parkinson's. Yeah, yeah. And you'd been working at the BBC for 40 years, working on various things, but, you know, I knew you best you were their technology correspondent. Someone had contacted, didn't they get in touch after watching you,

doing a broadcast that they noticed you might have Parkinson's? Oh, this is classic Sophie. She's gone into reverse. What are you doing, my love? She's now saying she doesn't want to go down there. she wants to go this one. Okay. Just let's just let's calm down, come down for a minute.

Let's have a little stroke and see how we go. Let's see what we can do. I think we're probably going back the way we came, but there we are. Yeah, I'd been doing a live broadcast on Breakfast TV in September of that year from Jersey which had great broadband connections and I was holding a broadband cable and they spotted the fact that I had a tremor which I hadn't noticed and said, oh, told the BBC that they should pass on a message that I should go to see a doctor about it. Actually, what they did not know was that I'd already had another symptom,

which I'd been on a holiday with Diane in that summer, and she'd kept saying, why are you dragging your feet all the time? I was dragging my right foot. It was just extra ammunition to me to say, go and see the doctor. And it took four months to get from the GP to the consultant, and then the consultant said, yeah, that's Parkinson's. Was that quite shocking when you found out? Would you know?

It wasn't really. I mean, I knew a bit about Parkinson's. My dad had Parkinson's when he was in his 80s, as just one of the other things that goes wrong late in life. But more importantly, I'd had, in 2005, I was diagnosed with a, a malignant melanoma behind my eye, eye cancer. And that was terrifying because if there'd been secondaries,

I'd had not a good outlook. God, Roy, you've really been through it, haven't you? And I'm still a customer in Morgal's Eye Hospital these days. I've still checked up every few months. And the very same year I was diagnosed with Parkinson's, that summer I had proton beam therapy on my eye, because they they thought the growth was growing again. So Parkinson's sort of fell into sort of relief, as it were, by contrast with cancer.

Cancer's to such a scary word. Which is maybe why people don't take Parkinson seriously enough. That's a lot. Yeah. In a relatively short period of time. Yeah. And I got used to the iron, that fear had faded. but I'd lost the sight in it.

I've got no sight in it now. So Parker says, well, here's another thing to deal with. And it wasn't too bad at first. First, two or three years, actually. I sometimes thought myself, what's all the fuss about? And now last two years or so, it's begun to show its teeth. I see Sophie as your gift.

But actually, because of her challenges, and because you had to be 100% focused on her during this really quite difficult period in your life when you're having to make these adjustments to your health and everything, I almost feel... Oh, Ray slipped out of his collar and his harness! Oh, look at that! Ray, mate, very silly, Billy.

Oh, darling. Poor dog-ho. You know, when Ray just slipped out of his harness, Sophie was a little bit of smug. looked him as if to say, I'm not the bad one today. I'm obedient. I just wonder, thinking about everything you've been through, that she became this full-time focus. And if you like, distraction in some ways. And I wonder if that's ended up, even though it's been challenging at times, and it's not what you expected, but we don't always get what we want, we get what we

need. Yeah, I know. I know. It's, I mean, Sophie has, it's hard to overestimate what a big part of my life in particular. She's been in this last couple of years. I mean, a lot of worry and moments of joy. What's been the hardest thing, Rory? The hardest thing was when I thought she kind of might not make it, as it were. might test us to destruction by just making our lives impossible. But she came through.

I have insomnia anyway, it's a kind of symptom of Parkinson's. And I've had a lot of sleepless nights at the early stages wondering what I would find when I came downstairs. And too often finding nothing, which was not a good sign. Oh, there's another cat. Oh, is that the same? That's the same cat that gives a sort of comedy, Disney response. It's all right, darling.

Hi, how you doing? Good, good, thank you. Oh, I feel like I'm out with the mayor. Is it a very old friend of mine, actually? Oh, is it? You worked in for the BBC for a long time, which is interesting to me because even though your family, you know, your dad didn't live with you

and there was a, you weren't estranged, but you know, you weren't together as a family but I see the BBC as this replacement family in a way for all of you, the thing that became this constant in all of your lives. Oh, absolutely. When I left, I left just as sort of lockdowns were ending. And I put on a big party.

And I made a speech and it started by saying that this was a difficult day because the BBC in a very real sense was family to me. Because I worked out that from 1941 to where my mum joined in Bristol to 2021, to 2021 when I left, there'd been an almost unbroken period when either my mum, my brother Stephen, spent a short time at the BBC. My dad or me had been working for the corporation and I'm very much you know my country writing wrong about the BBC right or wrong about the BBC you know I'm just a passionate defender gets things wrong but I I just think it's very important yeah so I'm biased about it

well I had a similar thing I suppose because my dad worked there for years you calm down calm down sorry see this is this is how she escaped from the last harness you see this backing out oh we have to be careful Careful of that, darling. But she can't, she can't escape from this. What is it, sweetie? What is the matter? Do you think it's all those road work things up there, Role? Yeah, I mean, I have to tell you, this is actually a really good walk.

I'm so bad. We have been out for a long time. I kind of imagine that we take her out for a five minutes, drop her off and go off on a walk on her own. So you've done well, sweetie. But it's quite a typical shape of a walk. I think we're going back that way now. Come on, Raymond. Let's follow Sophie.

No, dear. Oh, now the two dogs go in different directions. Raymond, what are you doing, my love? Can we follow Sophie this way, please, my love? Come on, sweetheart, good boy. Yay, there's Sophie. Good girl, Sophie. He's going, that girl, that girl.

Good girl. Let's follow Sophie. He just stops like this, Rory. Oh, well, she too sometimes. Sometimes it's kind of, oh, for God's sake, which way do you want to go? Why do you think we've been sent fearful dogs? To try us. Do you think it is to make us more patient?

Yes, yes, exactly. Come on, Ray. Oh, no, he's gone into reverse now. Do you know what it is? Look at Ray. Look at Ray. Sophie, look at Ray. Okay, Warren.

not showing a good side to you. You go look at Ray, someone's worse than you. You know what it is? It's the wheelie bins. Oh yes. Does Sophie respond to wheelie bins like that? I think she used to be it's good. I mean for instance bin day used to be quite a terrifying day and that's just kind of what else. Now how about how about a treat? So I feel I'm not one of you know when you're at those mother and toddler group things and they're going oh no he's reading already he's not dead. Oh no he was toilet train. the year ago. How's Ray about people coming to your place?

Do you know what's odd? He's great with people coming over. And he's very excited. He does playbows. He does all of that. What he's more nervous of is being in, and he's, fine, it depends on the space. But I just cannot guarantee,

I cannot predict what environments he's going to be scared in and what environments he's going to be confident in. Yeah. Do you have the same thing? No, she's very, very defensive about the house. That's the most difficult thing at the moment, is in particular our son, his wife and the grandkids. So when the grandkids come to stay, we just have to separate them completely.

Is she frightened of kids? Yeah, she's particularly frightened of kids. Is she? But she barks at anyone who comes to the house. We've got builders at the moment, and they get royally barked at it. And then she sort of eventually settles down. but having people around it's begun to get tiny bit better

we've got some friends who come over on Sunday we go to their house and this this weekend she barked furiously and then sat around and noticed that everyone had nice stuff on their plates and started nicking it off their plates but

is that is she defending you when she does that we kind of think that that's what's going on she's defending her safe space and us we've got a cleaner who we've known for 30 years. Oh, is this Halina? Yeah, who is great.

But she, if we're in, she'll bark furiously at Helena. And Helena says that if we're out, she won't. I wondered, you had a huge amount of attention online. Yeah. It's kind of really revitalised in a way your career, hasn't it? At a time when you were thinking, oh, I'm going to wind down and start retiring. and Sophie's been part of that. Sophie's definitely been part of it.

I mean, I've had a ridiculously busy three years since I've left the BBC. Not just Sophie. I mean, there's been two great things in my life. There's been Sophie, and there's been this podcast to do about Parkinson's, Movers and Shakers. Which you do with wonderful Jeremy Paxman

who has been on this podcast with Derek. Has he? I didn't know that. I really liked him more, because I thought I was going to be a bit frightened. of him and I wasn't at all. I realised he's actually adorable. Derek's a star. I felt very jealous of Derek because Derek comes to the pub. Yeah. And Jeremy, Jeremy has been slightly rude about Sophie, hasn't he, Sophie? What did you say about Sophie? Oh, he did say at one point, we're not talking about that bloody dog of yours again, are we? We forgive him, don't we,

Now that's a cat place I know you like a cat He's just jealous because Derek hasn't had a book meaning about him Hearing about you as a child And I would describe you Oh here we go We're going to meet the cat

That's the third time we've been buzzed that cat You sound quite a sensitive Empathetic child You don't strike me as a kind of brash Extravert I suppose I'm quite sociable though But you're sociable That's what I was going to say to you

is that I was making a lot of assumptions. I'm thinking technology, super bright, good at numbers. You see what I'm going here. And I'm thinking, oh, you're more of a quiet introvert, but you're not. And I wonder, where did that interest in performing come from? Oh, I think that was around pretty early on. I think I am deep down, although I'm not an extra, I am a bit of a show off. Are you?

Yeah. Where do you get that from, do you think? Is your mom or dad like that? Well, I mean, my brother was in the theatre. My mum obviously enjoyed being the centre of attention. Yeah, I think nobody goes into television. Very few people go into television that are shrinking violets, do you think? Yeah, yeah.

Even on the sort of crew side of it, do you think? Yeah, because there's a lot of socialising to be done, isn't it? Yeah. But it's not, it's teamwork. Now, Sophie, Sophie's, Sophie, Stop it. There was the sort of, I always called it, The Look at Me, Gene. Yeah.

You had that. I did drama terribly at school and a bit at university. I appeared in various plays. I was always the vicar for some reason, hopeless. Yes, I see you as the vicar. Yeah. And I started in the BBC behind the scenes as a producer, and was doing really well on that,

and then chucked it all in to my mother's horror to go to BBC Wales to be a reporter. which meant giving up my pension, which she thought was the worst thing anyone could ever do, ever. But I just... Morning. Come on, Sophie. Come on, Sophie.

What's it like getting all this attention? Do you like it? Because as a result of Sophie? I do quite like it. So as a TV reporter, every six months I'd get recognised in the supermarket. Because people don't really differentiate between... National Union straightforward TV reporters.

And it changed a bit with social media because you were able to express yourself. But with Sophie, you know, all sorts of people stopped me and asked me about her. That must be nice to have that interaction. Because I know you've said you've been very honest about the fact that you suffer from depression sometimes. And is that connected to the Parkinson's?

I did. I mean, I had never suffered from depression in my life. And then I realized that a year a year into my practice's diagnosis, I realised because I was coming out of it, that I'd been depressed for a year. I mean, it is supposed to be a symptom. Because mostly I've been a half,

glass half full sort of person. I was just, had this permanent dark cloud over me for the first year. Oh, I was surprised. Presumably, I mean, Sophie's massively helped with that, but I think the one thing I really liked about your book was that

you didn't gloss over it. You were very honest about the fact, but sometimes it was really challenging and frustrating, wasn't it? Absolutely, and he found it's just swearing at the dog, which is not a good thing to do. But we've all done it. Yeah. And I think in your case, it was, you were just feeling, every time we made a step forward,

there'd be two steps back behind that bloody red sofa again. Yeah. There's another doggy. There's another doggy. No, no, calm down. Calm down. That dog's getting in a car. You've got to be better at that.

Come on. Oh, no, be careful. Sorry, she's very nervous. Yeah, come on. Come on. Come on. This way, this way. This way.

Come on, so. It's all right, my love. Now, I am going to lead you a bit along this way. Come on, my sweet. Good girl. Good girl. Do you know what I've noticed? story, I may be making an assumption here, but I've noticed she had a bit of a reaction to that

man she didn't know. Yeah. And yet with me and my producer, who are both female, who she's not met before, she was much more relaxed. Yeah, she's, there's definitely a thing there. Is that right? Well, she's amazing with Diane, partly because Diane is amazing with her. Right. Um, Dianne is so relaxed. Whereas, when we had difficult times, uh,

I get tense and she can read it, I think. I had a terrible fall in the first year I got her, broke my elbow and had a bad time with the NHS. And it was just as we were trying to get a Sophie train to use a harness. And we went backwards. She could sense my, well,

first I could do nothing because I was, you know, in a sling and so on. You could first, my love. Yeah, she generally, I think it's not uncommon for rescue dogs. I mean, she's not got a terrible history. That's the funny thing.

She was abandoned by the roadside in a Romanian village and then rescued by a vet. And the vet gave her and some of her siblings to her dad. So old guy had a barn and he kept them in the barn. And I just think they'd been, you know, isolated. They'd never been in a house. never been properly socialised. And that's how she turned out. The annoying thing is, two of her siblings are now in this country.

And we haven't met them, but we've communicated with their owners. And they seem to be pretty chilled. Yeah. Yes. So you can never tell. But you realise with dogs, and I've realised this with Ray, Rory, that he wasn't the dog I expected. I thought my dog would be waking me up at six hours.

to go for a two-mile walk. Yeah. That's not Ray. He has more of a Princess Margaret approach to waking up. Well, he has a fagin of gin and tonic. You might see him before heaven if you're lucky. He likes to lie in. And then he just stops on walks and I have to carry him.

But you know, it's really weird that I've started to realise, and I found that inspiring in your book, this idea of this is who he is. Yes. I'm investing in him. I don't own him. Yes. Yeah. He's sharing my space with me. I've made that choice.

He didn't ask for it. You know? And it's a partnership. Yeah. I know a lot of the old-school dog training stuff is all show them who's boss. Yes. And I hate that. Well, so does Cy, our advisor.

And he's really talking about that, about, you know, don't get the idea that you're the leader of the pack. That's just such old thinking. Sophie's doing a poo-poo. Do you want me to do that? No, no, I will sort this out. Are you sure? Hello again. Good that you've waited this long. Hang on, you're looking at me. I didn't do that.

She's, she's, um... It shows she's now really relaxed, actually. Well, Sophie, you're so good. She's kind of sat on the loom with the Times Crossword. Relaxed. Good girl, my goodness. sweet. Isn't Sophie a good girl? She's ever so good good girl, isn't she? I was reading that tone makes a big difference with dogs as well. Yeah. Have you heard that

Rory? Well, lots of people advising us, one of the things they said was, why don't you learn Romanian as if that was a realistic prospect? But I think you're right about tone and maybe a confident tone. Oh, damage spread over a wide air. you're Sophie. Good girl, Sophie. You're such a good girl. Well done. So your approach has been very... My approach has been do what Psi says, which is be patient and move at the dog's pace. And every now and then completely lose it going, this is nonsense. Can we just get on with it? And then realizing that, you know, he's probably right. What are some recent milestones?

Sophie then. Does she sleep on the bed? Well, the big milestone was a few months ago in October where she went upstairs. She hadn't been upstairs at all. We'd once carried her up there, but she never went upstairs. Now she loves it up there.

And she sleeps in a little bed in our bedroom. And if I'm away, I think she sometimes sleeps on the bed. I have come back from the loo in the middle of the night to find the dog in my place

because again she's slightly more comfortable with Diane but so that's been the big milestone do you think Sophie's one of the best things decisions you've ever made Rory well it didn't feel like that at the time for a long time

but she has been wonderful she's a wonderful part of our life and it's like saying you know do you Do you wish she had a different child? Well, not once you get to know them. Oh, that's not what my mum said, though. She did wish that.

She didn't. Do you know, I don't know what you think, but I actually think Ray and Sophie has been quite a success. It has. There's not been, I mean, there's a bit of growly stuff from Sophie at the beginning, but now... I think she just wanted to play. Yeah.

She's been very calm with you all, actually. Well, that's because we love her, and we're sending her such positive energy. Then we're just going up to her front door. We're getting to your front door. Sophie, what does it feel like to be one of the most loved dogs in the world? It's all right. The food's okay. Sometimes. The walks are a bit much.

Walk, walk, walk. That's all he talks about. Sophie, you're going to get home. We're daddy now. Yeah, you've got to your house. Oh my love. Rory, why don't you take Sophie in and she can do what a woman needs to do. I'll see you in a second. Okay. Here we go.

Come on, Ray. Come on, Sophie. Here's Rory. I'm just closing that gate so you could come out if you wanted to, sweetie. I think she really likes you guys. Oh my God, this has really made my day with Rory. Do you think so? Well, I think she's enjoyed it.

Look at her there. She's sat on the doorstep. Hello, my dad. Hello, darling. Do you think she's been quite calm with us? Yeah, she has. She has. I mean, we've done a much longer walk than normal.

Yes, we've stopped and started, and she's gone into retreat, done that classic thing where she tries to back out of her harness, and luckily she can't anymore. But I think she's enjoyed it. And there she's on the doorstep again, going, what's going on, Dad? She's not barking. No, no, she's quite calm. Do you know what?

I feel like I've interviewed sort of Ronaldo or something, and he's really opened up to me and shown his vulnerable. I do, Sophie. I feel like I've seen a whole different side to you. What a beautiful girl she is. Well, Rory, what a joy it has been. And to hear your story, and I really recommend everyone reads your utterly brilliant book

about Sophie from Romania because I loved it. It's very honest, but it's also so inspiring. It's one of those books you will just not regret reading. And also your brilliant memoir at Ruskin Park. which was fascinating. I couldn't put it down. Well, thank you. It's been great fun. Have you enjoyed it? I always enjoy talking about myself.

And, yeah, it's been good. And what do you make of Raymond? Raymond is rather sweet. He's looking at me. He said, it's slightly, you know, slightly dubious, but, you know, oh no, we're getting a little cuddle. He's quite nervous.

Yeah. I don't blame you, boy. Because that's safe. I'm quite a. I wish she's still there. Rory, it was an answer? absolute joy to meet you and I'm not going to lie let's get the billing right it was an absolute honour to meet Sophie from Romania and it was lovely to have you with us Rory Ketland

Jones I didn't say it I'm going to say it again Rory Ketland how to say it kethlin Ketlan Ketlan Ketlan Ketlan is actually a teacher at school who taught me to say it because I was at school in south London and a Welsh teacher said you're not pronouncing it right boy Ketlan Ketlan Ketlan do you have people your whole life getting your name of your name Absolutely. Selen? Mr. Selen. Mr. Seelion.

Yeah. Well, do you know what I'm really pleased about? I love your story with Sophie. But you know I'm also really touched that you got to know your dad a bit. I think that's really lovely and you had that relationship with him and I remember something in your book which made me well up a bit. It was when you were pretty young and you were looking at a copy of The Daily Mirror. There was a picture of your dad in the paper and he had a little bit.

And he had a dog, didn't he? He had a boxer, a little boxer. It was a young boxer. He loved boxers. Had them all his life. And I was shown it by the childminder, Mrs. Gregor, who's got auntie, nice cockney lady, and she got the mirror, and she showed it to me. And I said, I don't know what to say.

I said, oh, he's got a dog. And she turned to her husband and said, oh, ain't it a shame? Oh. And I couldn't quite work out what the shame was. shame was but yeah that's so sad isn't it but how interesting I thought what moved me was that you connected with that little domestic detail yeah that you knew nothing really about your dad no the idea of you see a picture of your dad you always got a dog I know I know it's what I latched on to but how

lovely that dogs have become so significant to you again a bonding thing Rory I've adored you I adore Sophie we're gonna leave you to it but Bye bye Sophie. Say bye-bye, Sof. Good girl. Bye Sophie, we love you. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed.

And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.