Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Shaparak Khorsandi (Part One)

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

This week Emily and Ray take a rainy West London stroll with the brilliant Shaparak Khorsandi, joined by her two beautiful dogs, Taylor the retriever and Jamie the Maltese. A gloomy day was instantly lifted by what can only be described as an iconic trio bounding into the park.Emily chats to Shaparak about her extraordinary life story, from leaving Iran with her family after the revolution, to growing up in London and the huge effort she made to fit in, including changing her name to Shappi. They talk about her journey into comedy, her adult diagnosis of ADHD and how that helped her make sense of her childhood, and a brief but memorable stint working in a charity call centre where she once hired a very confident young man called Alan Carr.Shaparak has also written the brilliant book Scatterbrain, an honest, funny and insightful exploration of her ADHD diagnosis. Due to popular demand, her Scatterbrain tour has been extended with dates now running until March. Tickets and information are available at https://shappi.co.uk/It’s a warm, funny and deeply engaging walk with someone Emily and Ray absolutely adored, and a woman with truly excellent dogs.Follow Emily:InstagramX Walking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

People said like, why are you doing it? I'd go, what, do you think? Yeah, do you think? Or deposit for a house, you know, whatever. It's not for the experience. It's not so I can dry Stanley Johnson's pants over a fire, which is another thing I've done in my life. Sorry, so excited.

This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I took a West London stroll with a brilliant comedian, Sharper Act or Sandy, and her two beautiful dogs, Taylor the Retriever and Jamie the Maltese. So it was a bit of a miserable. rainy day in London when we met, but seeing Shaps, as she very kindly tolerates me calling her, bounding into the park with Jamie and Taylor, was like a lovely burst of sunshine. They are simply an iconic trio. So we'd actually briefly met each other before a few times over the years, but we ended up being thrown together a few months back when our mutual friend, the comedian and

author Adam Kay, was having a party in the country and it was suggested I give Shaps a lift. And we based hit it off so well in the car, I ended up forgetting I had no petrol and missing the motorway turning, but I did end up thinking this woman was fabulous. She's obviously had a hugely successful career as a comic and author, but I wanted to find out a bit more about her life story and we had such an interesting chat about everything from her family leaving Iran after the revolution when she was a very young kid, her childhood growing up in London, where where she told me about the huge effort she made to assimilate, including changing her name to Shappi

and her decision to become a comedian. We also talked about her adult diagnosis of ADHD and how that's allowed her to make a lot of sense of her childhood, as well as the brief time she spent working in a charity call centre where she ended up hiring a very confident young man called Alan Carr. She's also written a brilliant book on her ADHD diagnosis called Scathe. to Brain, which is a really entertaining, fascinating, fascinating, and her tour of the same name has been so popular.

She's just extended it with dates until March. So do get your tickets now at shappycorsandy.co.uk. Ray and I had the best time with this woman. She's endlessly fun company and also just a really generous, hearted, warm soul. And she has the best dogs in the world. Next to you, Ray, stop getting jelly bags. So I'm going to stop talking and hand over to the main. event here's Sharperak and Taylor and Jamie.

Sorry, I've just left my dog there, I just need the loo. Sure, well wait, yeah, of course, yeah. Got him, yeah. So cute. No worry. Oh look, Shapo. Very sweet. I feel very responsible looking after someone's dog.

It's like we're grown-ups. I know, let's watch him. The thing is, me and you, we could just chat and someone will come and untie him and steal it, but we won't notice until... What are we going to do if something happens? What a good dog. Do you think this, what we should say, this woman has left us in charge of her dog, Shappi and I, while she goes to the loop.

And it was like the opening scene, it feels like the opening scene's her dumb and dumber. But that's what I love about us. You never know what you're going to get. So I should say, Shappy and I were just about to head off. Yeah. Having promised to look after this woman's dog and our producer will, I had to say, I'm afraid we can't leave yet, because we promised to look up. We'd forgot.

We forgot the dog. And also, it's a very good and quiet dog. It's better than our ones, isn't it? Let's be honest. My dogs would bark their head off if I went to the loo. So, yeah, we nearly wandered off, and that would have been horrific. Can you imagine? And that's a cute dog.

That's a stealable dog. And then they would have gone, oh, I just left my dog with these. No. These were given to me. This is a proper, this is one of the, this is one of the dog. of those four grand cockapoo's yeah that looks like it should be in a film or it's just come back from an audition yes it really does doesn't it and it's properly groomed it's got a nice coat oh that was the best coffee I've ever had oh did you

like it absolutely loved it thank you so while we're standing here looking after this dog yes can you officially introduce me to your dogs because we should say I've met your dog previously haven't I when I gave you a lift to Adam Kay's party who's a mutual friend of us have yes and I have a car that I can't drive and I said to Adam please help me and he said oh it's a lovely we were just saying how well behaved your dog was compared to our dog and I've ever met in the rain as well I wasn't sure I could take him in but you know that didn't stop my friend's dogs from going in they did go in and they they weren't really welcome I have to say I don't want to

get all Karenie as my daughter would say but if it's in a very doggy park don't have automatic doors yeah yeah and also Yeah. Exactly. What's your dog called? Otis. Otis. Yeah.

Aren't you beautiful Otis? His coat wouldn't stay on that well though. We need to invest in a better one but it's okay. Absolutely lovely. Oh, lovely to see you. Bye bye, my Otis. Take care. Yeah, so I'd given you a lift

to Adam Kay's party and he lives in the country and it was really weird, wasn't it? Because we sort of got put in touch. It was kind of like a blind friendship date. Yeah. And then we worked out we had met before, which we'll get on to. But I really felt, Shappy, the minute you got in that car, I just thought, yeah, this is a bit of me. I like this woman.

We fell in love, didn't we? We fell in love instantly. It was like, there she is. And there was this music that came on. And it was, and we didn't stop talking. And there was no need for small talk, which again we'll get on to. No, we don't do small talk, do we. We don't do how are the kids, how, we don't do small talk.

No, we go, how is the state of your mind? How do you sleep at night? Where do you sleep at night? How is your general emotional state right now? Yeah. A serious question. Hello. These are. are and right on you I've got to say as well there's an instant trust particularly

working in show business where so much of it is front and smoke and mirrors to actually meet someone who could be honest about the the stuff the work and the anxiety around it and the game that people play in it and how I think I was telling you that I'm so crap at the game like I didn't realize you're meant to I thought you went to parties and spoke to the bar staff all night, which is what I did and they'd come away with absolutely no producers meeting me, but everyone inviting me to raves. This was the 90s, you know. I always go to those things often and I think I sort of want to talk to the waiters and I don't know what that is about. I think it's almost like maybe it's a lack of confidence thing that I think I don't. don't know. There's less pressure or something.

The thing is I'm good at those parties now, but that's only been in the last few years when I've got stacks of therapy. What I realized it is, it's number one, it's my innate sort of, sort of way I was raised that, you know, you just. Give me a kiss. Give me a kiss, please.

Excuse me, can I have a kiss? And then we're all going to get on. Give me a kiss, please, my love. I love you so dearly. You know you're my best friend. I love you. Let's go and get these guys off the lead. and they'll be a lot happier.

So Shappie? Yeah. Let's head off on our walk now. We've just started at the cafe. You see, I've just remembered I've got a microphone on me. I kept going right up to you to speak. This is how clueless I am about a job I've been in for almost 30 years. And we're braving the rain.

We should say today we're in... Is this Gunnersby Park? This is Gunnersby Park, yeah. Which is absolutely beautiful. Isn't it? We're by a museum. There's a kids park. lovely pond shappie do you want me to put the umbrella up no I really like the rain as a dog walker and the reason being is because I've got quite a rambunctious

rambunctious rambunctious field golden retriever I've got an American golden retriever so he's she's different to the English ones who are very beautiful bears but But Taylor is an athlete and she needs exercise and she needs to run off the lead and when it's raining and there are fewer people around. I just feel a little bit freer with her. Got it. And this is Taylor, as you say. Yeah, so Taylor is, gosh, she's just turned seven.

I can't believe it. Wow. Oh my goodness. She's seven years old and she's only just started to calm down a little bit. and my little Maltese is called Jamie. They're both girls and she's three years old. And so yeah, I've got little and large. And Jamie, I mean they're both lap dogs.

Taylor, given half a chance would be sitting on me all the time. Well the first time I met Taylor was when I came around to pick you up for the lift. And Taylor was just, she just produced her belly as soon as I arrived. And I love that in a dog. Yeah, I'm like that too. I am. Just rub my belly. I know, I mean, I sort of produced my belly when I got into your car.

She was just like, let's be friends. But that is what humans do, isn't it? Oh, Ray, he travels his own path. Can you see? Yeah. How often do you have to get Ray groomed? Fairly regularly, about every six weeks or so. And then do you in between, do it yourself at home?

Yeah, I have to do a lot of brushing. Do you not like the rain? rain darling do you not like the rain I know I look like a mub but I don't like water no oh you little cute what a little oh gosh I want my daughter to meet you I think she'd really like him she'd eat you I'm afraid she'd got me up do you know he's got that being here before Dalai Lama quality gentle soul which makes sense because they were originally owned by Tibetan monks in monasteries And I always think with Shih Tzu's that's why they've got the energy that you need around the monastery, they're observers.

And are they related to Tibetan Terriers? Because they, Tibetan Terriers look like a bigger version of them in some ways. They do. But they're less, they're slightly more, less yappy. They're less sort of silent witnesses than Shih Tzu's. They're not terriers, aren't they? No, they haven't got the terrier. No.

There you go. So, I'm just trying to remember where. Which way should we go up here so we avoid the lake? there's another lake. Come on. Taylor will jump in. Come on. Come on, Taylor.

It's actually quite nice when there's no one around. So then if she does accidentally... Who was Taylor named after? Good question. People think it was Taylor Swift, but it was not. No. So we had an opair that we absolutely loved called Taylor. And me and the kids were really sad when she had to move back to Canada.

For visa reasons, we tried everything. we couldn't keep her in the UK. And then to sort of make up for her loss, I sort of said, we'll get a puppy. And then we couldn't decide on the name. And then I said, why don't you call her Taylor after our tailor? Who, by the way, is still a good friend of ours. Yeah.

Turns out she's not that into dogs. And I got into a muddle, because she said her mum had golden retrievers, but she never said, I'm not really a dog person. And then I just thought, oh my God, I've named my dog after you. And that's not a cop. If someone called their dog Shappy, which frankly I think is a really good name for a dog, I would be so touched.

Yeah. But she, yeah, we worked through that and we're still friends. I wanted to ask you, talking of Shappi, yes. I've always called you Shappi and that was the name you went by professionally. But not long ago, you'd have. decided to use your real name. My real name, yeah, Sharparac.

So Sharpaac is quite difficult to pronounce, because in the English sort of rhythm of English, you don't really go Sharpa. So it ends up being sha pa. I've noticed a lot of people say, Chaparac, and I listened to how you said it. And yours was more Sharpaerac. Sharpaac, yeah.

Because I did the work. You did do the work, yeah. So at school, it's always like, Chaparac, shapparack, crack a jack, shitter-attack, shark attack. It's a beautiful name. It means butterfly. It means butterfly. And I loved it.

So when I went to high school, let's go a little bit. Yeah, let's go a bit further on and then do a poo. Oh, you're doing a poo-poo, Taylor. So many this morning. Taylor, just to confirm again, is Shappi's dog. No, Taylor Swift is in Gunnarzubark doing a massive shit. I've quite dramatically changed, well, not that dramatically, but I've changed my dog's diet.

And they are, they poo a lot more. Yeah. But they are a lot happier and they're a lot calmer. I cook for them now. And I give them loads of like red kidney beans and Taylor. Taylor here. Oh, look at that running. Yay, good girl.

She's a good girl. So the name change. Oh yeah, sorry, the name change. You don't want to talk about my dog's food. I love your diet. I love your dog's diet. But I just want to establish because I'm interested. I'm assuming the reason

that you changed that back was because like a lot of people of our generation you know back then there was almost like a slight intolerance for people who didn't have a British name. Yeah, when I was a kid that actually say do you have an English name? Yes, it's John.

So and it was normal. Do you remember there was a cartoon? called the storyteller in Germany I'm Johann in England I am John and so oh god I remember that I used to fancy him and he was a cartoon oh I like Johann yeah Johan yeah yeah yeah so I in lockdown I was watching the football and there was a Bacaya Sarker and Rahean Sterling and they're from my neighbourhood they're from Brentford and Greenford right and I just thought at school they would have changed their names they would have been ray and you know

barry or something yeah so true and i thought oh my god the young people don't do this anymore and then the older i got the weird because no one really calls me shappie my friends call me shapp yeah i call you shaps yeah shaps or shappie oh sorry shaps or shapp is like what everyone calls me and shappie sort of became this stage name and the older i got this sort of, I don't know, it's a bit cutesy, like shappy, shappy, happy shappy. Like sort of bunny or something, yeah, you know, with that. Then, yeah, so I kind of wrote this article about wanting to be called Charpac again, but that actually got really complicated.

Why? Well, because people are very, very sensitive about identity and names. And so people that have known me for like 20 years, I kind of thought that if they called me shappy, it would be offensive to me. And it's not. It was like, it's literally, everyone called me Bob, but I quite like Robert now. Yeah. And someone said, I didn't want to, I didn't want to dead name you.

Oh, no, it's not like that. Oh, no, no, I haven't transitioned. Like, it's, yeah. So then it was all this thing about now, you said you want to be called Sharperac. would you prefer Sharperac or Shappi? And I was like, do you know what, guys? Just call me Shappi again. It's fine.

I don't mind either. But on my books, because I write books, I do love to see my real name. Yeah, it's your heritage. Yeah, but on radio, tell it. I know, I've been Shappie for years, it's fine. No, you're not going to say, if someone comes up to you and said, I'm a big fan of your Shappie, you're not going to say,

how dare you? No. No, I feel like I made my point. And everyone knows I have, because my choice, because my children didn't even know that my name was Sharpaedek. Because, you know, my family will call me Shapp. And yeah, so anyway, I made my point. And also, I'll be honest, it was lockdown.

I had a weekly column. I'd run out of stuff to talk about. It happened. I made it was hard. And I want to go back to your childhood, which is so fascinating, because obviously you came over here as a result. You were born in Tehran. right you yeah and then you came over here after the revolution uh well actually we came here

so my dad was a poet writer journalist yeah he had um columns in the main uh nationals national dailies in iran and in 1976 like so many young professionals who was like oh we'll have like you know we'll spend some time in london or Paris or new York. So we came to London and we his news agency got him a flat in Kensington. Right. And you know we went back and forth to Iran and the plan was that we just spend a little bit of time here. My mum and dad and us could have the experience of living in Europe, learn English and then go home before we started school because in Iran you start school at six or seven years old.

Right. And this is you in your brother Kavan yeah so yeah brilliant before they start school we can go to England and that was a very very common thing and then the revolution started happening so back then Iran had the Shah and the history is really interesting it's very it's very well it's part of British history too that it's really hard to talk about without talking for five hours. I'm trying to figure out how to distill it.

But long story short, in the 1950s, a fledgling democracy that Iran was establishing was crushed by the British and Americans. And they put in the Shah. And yeah, people wanted democracy. And there was a revolution in 1979. So they just didn't want that, you know, they didn't want what it was replaced.

I mean, is this the first time the Ayatollah has been talked about on your lovely podcast? Well, it's so weird because obviously growing up, my first experience of the Ayatollah, which is awful, is through not the 9 o'clock news. Oh God, I love that. As this sort of comedy figure. Ayatollah don't maybe closer. It was Billy Connolly of playing the Ayatollah. Oh, was it? Pamela Stevenson. Pamela Stevenson.

And I think, don't quote me on this, I think that's when they like sort of fell in love. That's so brilliant. So there we are. The I toll of what people to get back. So you ended up coming over here. Yeah, so we got asylum. Because he was a satirist and a poet and pretty high profile figure, wasn't he? Yeah.

So presumably he was sort of a dissident, wasn't he? Oh, yeah, not even sort of. So the thing is, my dad, he was popular. He was extremely popular. And in a country like Iran, which is a very little, literary culture if you and his poems were in the voice of the every man you know like Joe blogs and he and that was what his magazine what isn't that what it literally translated as almost yeah oh you have done your research ashtar rahs it's like Joe

blogs right yes so he wrote columns then criticizing the Iotlis and cartoons and satire because I thought that's all he he'd always love that you know under the Shah he might be censored and sometimes his column would appear blank right and that was like you know censorship rather than a but he wasn't going to get a death threat no you know but then but then he went back to Iran after the revolution and the Ayatollah's the regime change he went back going hooray we've got you know Iran back and yeah his officers were mobbed and there calls for his death and he

had to run he had to go that moment that day to the airport and we were already in London and that's when we realized there was no going back while these guys were in and no one thought they'd last and here we are 47 years later and I don't know when this is going out but there's currently a revolution to get rid of these nut jobs so yeah it's really really sad situation and that That was another part of it about my name. It's part of my Iranian identity, you know? Yes.

You go to all the trouble of naming your kid something pretty, like Sharpaedak, and then, you know, it kind of gets shortened to Shappi. So, yeah, that's a bit about my name. And when you came over here, yes. Presumably that's something that hangs over you as a family, that sense of danger, I suppose. Because your dad's life didn't stop being under threat

when you were here, did it? No, because he carried on. He started to publish a satirical magazine from London for all the other Iranians that got out. And, you know, we heard stories of people smuggling my dad's newspaper to Iran, and that was like so dangerous. Really dangerous.

People who just sort of... it's really hard to explain how brutal the Iotolers are it's really hard to explain that inhumanity that they inflict on people and you know you could risk death if you carried an illicit magazine that criticised them then you know and then I you know you had all these horrific stories of people trying to escape friends died trying to escape someone tried to smuggle themselves in on a suitcase

and they suffocated in the heart whole, it was every single day you heard about horror. Right. Yeah. And I remember reading something which really brought it home to me. I think it was in your brilliant book, Scatterbrain, which we're going to discuss as well, which was, you came home once and you were so sort of used to living under that threat that you came home once and saw a burnt out car.

Yeah, and I thought it was my dad's car. I thought it was a car bomb that's happened because it was also a Ford Cortina, which is what my dad had. but it wasn't my dad's Ford Cortina and it was just something that had ignited in the hot sun and I just ran up to our flat and just ran in all right, they're alive, okay.

Yeah, we've got death threats all the time and then when I was 11 we had to go into hiding for a few days because Scotland Yard uncovered a plot to assassinate my dad in London. So yeah, it was very... God, I mean this is not... Yeah.

Where we were, you know, we were doing... oh little town of Bethlehem at school and making paper lanterns and then going home and having people ring up our landline going I'm going to kill your father I'm going to cut his throat and yeah it was that that moment where we had to go into hiding and and it was real two men who the only reason they weren't able to kill my dad was because there was an informant who rang Scotland Yard and said the hit on Haddi Korsandi has been activated and so that man

exiled himself by doing that he now lives in Germany oh yes and didn't you see him giving evidence and he spoke about it? I read the transcripts the trial was in the Hague yeah and the order of my dad's death the code was let the celebrations begin and that that meant shoot my cute little dad

So chilling, isn't he? He's so sweet, my dad. I'm wondering, you know, that obviously doesn't not affect you in some way as a family and as a kid who's presumably trying, as all kids do, trying to assimilate, trying to integrate, trying to presumably hide any sign of otherness as much as you can. And it's like, oh, don't worry about the death threats, you know. Well, my mum, I remember my mum and dad saying, don't tell anyone at school. And I was like, oh, right, yeah, because obviously it's classified.

they're like no no no they'll just think you're weird you know like you know there's always that kid that's a compulsive liar at school that on Sunday we went to the moon my uncle Jack can eat trees that kind of thing but you did tell a massive lie which ended up to being a great thing because you made a Sky TV show about it about how you lied to your classmates once and said that Tucker Jenkins from Graincheel, which if anyone listening is younger than us and doesn't know that, which is highly likely, there was a huge show called Grain Shill, wasn't there, which was the biggest kid's show, would you say on TV?

Yeah, and I'd say Tucker Jenkins as a personality. I mean, he was a fictional character. He was as big as Harry Stiles. Well, I'm a producer, you're how old? 40, yeah, I know. Yeah. But he wouldn't have been part of your... Grain Chil was.

Was he Todd Carter? Yeah. And he went on... Actually, you might know him from Eastenders as well, because he's... played Mark in EastEnders who famously had HIV. He did. That was an incredible story line, you know. But I want to know, let's discuss this lunch because...

My brother had a friend and his friend at school was the coolest boy in the school. He was just good looking and he had the gift of the gab and he got a part in EastEnders. Sorry, he got a part, a little bit part, one line in Grange Hill. And that was my first experience of nearly dying with jealousy. Right. I was about, I was about maybe 11. Right. The very fact that he had an inn into that kind of world was so wild to me.

And I was so jealous. I'm not in like a hateful way, but just kind of, oh, never. that's like I want to go to the moon and no one will have let me go to the moon how come he gets to go to the moon because he's who he is and I'm a dork and I can't ever go to the moon a dork

who terrorists want to kill the dad of and and when you lied about Todd Carty then you said he's coming over to lunch and you thought on your feet very quickly when the sort of bully said how why would he be coming to yours

and you came up with I think this was genius what you came up with you said they were filming in your street filming in our street and friends with my brother because in my head I was like connecting my brother's mate to Todd Carty and I keep not saying my brother's mate's name because he's he's still like really cool and he's like it's quite private so so I'm getting this idea of you as a kid yeah and I have something of an idea of you as a kid because I've read your brilliant book Scatterbrain which is so interesting and I really recommend people read it if you

haven't already because it sort of is a slight journey through your life through the prism of this late diagnosis of ADHD you had and I feel it's kind of really kind of quite moving in a way that you're going back and making sense of things you couldn't make sense of at the time yeah yeah sort of looking at it there's a lot of self-forgiveness Yeah. And realizing, okay, so it wasn't that I wasn't trying hard enough or if I wasn't being smart enough. It's like my brain is wired and I needed something specific that the people around me couldn't see and so couldn't give me. And that was the awareness of how my brain worked. Yeah. And how, see, that that whole story about my dad and how we, you know, how to leave a wrong. not go back and also then there was the Iran-Iraq war so all of the people that we left behind in Iran we were then trying to call every night for 10 years to see if they've made it through an air raid right the symptoms of ADHD and trauma are very similar and I do think that someone

in a different environment a more peaceful environment might not be as profoundly affected by their ADHD as somebody who was in a chaotic environment, high anxiety, you know, all of the worries and stuff that my parents had. So I do think that I can't really tell where like ADHD begins and trauma ends. You know what I mean? It's all part of who I am. But I do know that my amygdala, that part of my brain that organises the rest of my brain goes into a full. fog unless I give it dopamine. So I have a dopamine deficiency, which is why walking in the rain with my dogs is brilliant, which is why I get very excited about meeting new people because I'm a vampire of other people's energy.

And, you know, I go running. Nature is so healing. It's unbelievable if you've got a divergent brain. I have trees. Do you think also the meeting new people thing, a lot of ADHD is connected to shame about past behaviour. And do you think the new people thing is that, right, a fresh start, that they won't know any of the bad things I've done, even though they're not bad things, but in your head? I don't know about that because I'm very likely to share those bad things immediately with somebody. Right.

So I think the new people thing is... And by the way, it's not that they are bad. This is what's so crazy about this, is that you would think it, something which someone else wouldn't even remark on. They must think I'm the worst person in the world because I didn't put a full stop at the end of that text or whatever. Well, there is that rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which learning about that was a game changer for me.

So I had a therapist in lockdown who was also ADHD. and all of those times, which was most times, I had any encounter with someone or I would just be left with this feeling of anxiety and dread and I'd lose sleep or the slightest, you know, unfriendly tone in someone's voice. Maybe it's because they were tired. Maybe it's because they were an asshole. I wouldn't know. But it would wound me. And I learned that that's rejection sensitivity and that's partly ADHD and also it's partly having constant negative things thrown at you trust you. Oh look who's late again. Oh yeah no surprise there you've forgotten this and so your self-esteem sort of ebbs away as a small child and so you always think you're in trouble and is it that thing where I had it once when it's emotion and excess of the fact as well so

and someone just said to me, when I was seven minutes late or something, and some really close friends who I adore were just joking. It was harmless. They said we were having bets on it and we all said seven minutes past. I started crying and I didn't. It was like someone had died. I didn't stop crying for 20 minutes. And that's shame, is it?

Through the past times when you've let people down or something that you think the idea that they were talking about me being late was the thing that got me. That's very wounding. That's hurt me. Has it? I might cry for 20 minutes. That's really wounding.

What is wounding about it? I think it's realizing there's something dehumanising about it. And ha ha ha we're all going to laugh. But they have no awareness that it's hurting you because you have trained yourself to mask how you're feeling. And if at any point you've gone, that's uncalled for.

they would have gone, oh, sorry, but you couldn't do that because somehow there's some sort of feeling that there'll be a calamity if we stand up for ourselves, so we don't. And it's about not having learned to lay boundaries of how you want to be treated. And then being all at sea when you go, oh God, I'm the one.

I went to a party on Saturday night. It was one of my neighbourhood friends 50th. It was a gorgeous party. and when I turned up, first thing she said to me was, oh, you remembered. The first thing, she goes, oh, and then she sort of corrected herself. She goes, oh, it's just I didn't set up a WhatsApp group, and I was going to text you.

I was like, oh, she doesn't know how much this invitation meant to me. It means a lot to me that you've invited me to your party. I'm not going to forget, and had I forgotten, I would have been absolutely traumatised. Yeah. So, and that does happen. I have accidentally put things in the wrong date, but it was on my mind and I checked with other friends because she,

you know normally these days people have a WhatsApp group. And they're yeah, yeah, yeah. And I went and she's the first thing. And I noticed that it didn't hurt my feelings. That's good. And I noticed I've, that's because I've worked on that part of me that gets upset. So that, that's the beauty of therapy and awareness. and growing.

And also, when you've got ADHD or whatever, part of the time, for ages, I was like, I'm so misunderstood. But then now I think I now need to understand other people. Yeah. And not think, not assume what their intentions are. Yeah. Not assume the worst. Yeah. And be kinder.

Like, actually, that's kind of an odd thing to blurt out. Oh, I thought you'd forget. Maybe, you know, maybe there's her own divergence there going on. So many times, I'm. I've thought people are, people hate me, but turns out that they're on the autistic spectrum. I'm saying, I'm giggling as I say that, because it was a genuine thing. I thought, a family member of mine said to me, she's only 22, so she's a lot more, has a lot more access to the language around this sort of stuff. And there is autism spectrum of my family, I know now.

and she was saying to me with my friends if we went for a walk in the park and they were all chatting I wasn't saying anything and in the end one of them said do you hate us and I was like no I just don't have anything to contribute

and I can't do the little sounds of yeah yeah and I can't do all that so I just listen and I thought oh my gosh that really explains a lot especially if you've got ADHD like I do I'm a tall talker and if someone's quiet I experience that as them judging me I experience

that as not liking my company and judging and that's not how their intention so what you need to know I now need feel I need to reassure you that when I'm quiet and I're a professional it's because I know it's irritating people hear it because my thing is to go I know women do that a lot as well because they're very generous conversationally and they're reassuring and they'll say yeah exactly and then I once listened to this back quite early doors and I realised okay I'm here to talk to the person and occasionally get my views on things but it was just me every second going mm mm mm mm mm but isn't it funny men don't do that not to the same degree

shaps I don't think I really hope you love part one of this week's walking the dog if you want to hear the second part of our chat it'll be out on Thursday so what Whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.