Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Shaparak Khorsandi (Part Two)

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

In part two of Emily and Ray’s walk with the wonderful Shaparak Khorsandi, the conversation continues with more warmth, humour and reflections on life, comedy, hiring Alan Carr(!) and finding your people.If you haven’t already, do go back and listen to part one. And make sure to catch Shaparak live on her current tour Scatterbrain, which has been extended due to popular demand. Tickets and information are available at https://shappi.co.uk/It’s a warm, funny and deeply engaging walk with someone Emily and Ray absolutely adored, and a woman with truly excellent dogs.Follow Emily:InstagramXWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Sharperak Corsandy. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and do make sure to catch Sharperak live. Her show's Scatterbrain is touring at the moat, so do make sure to book your tickets now at shappeecorsandy.co.uk. Really hope you enjoy our walk and do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Sharperac and Taylor and Jamie and Ray Ray. I want to go back to your childhood. Yeah. Because you obviously, you know, I'm getting this idea of you at school where you're clearly an incredibly bright kid, but undiagnosed, as we now know.

And you're also an interesting combination, aren't you? Because I get the feeling that you like the attention, but there's this sort of nerdy, quite self-conscious side to you as well. Yeah. Yeah, I am a nerd. I was a nerd without portfolio for a long time. My nerdiness wasn't picked up on at school. I loved learning. And I also get very, very shy.

And I think the liking the attention comes from like, oh, I'm being seen. And so if you're used to feeling not seen, then when you are, it really means something, right? Do you know, the other week, I was walking across Ealing Common. And as you know, I'm training in psychotherapy. And someone from a different class to me called out to me from across the green, Shappie!

And they were the bunch of mate. And they ran over, gave me a hug. Because it was lunchtime. You should say Shaps means her class at school, not saying they were upper or working class. And you said someone from a different class to me had the temerity. to approach me and I won't have that. Know your place. What do you believe in this?

Incudent fellow. But anyway, yeah, someone who you'd been at school. And called me by my first name. I said it's Miss Chaparact to you. No. Anyway, and that was it. Gave me a cuddle, introduced me to all their friends and then went off.

And I just had this moment of like, when I was a kid, I was never the one that anyone called over to. I was never the one that oh they're shabby, shabby, shabby, shabby, shabby, shabby. That was never me. Right. And I wonder if part of that was

me feeling so invisible that, you know, you sort of don't even notice even if it is. You know, like when you feel like underwater, I always felt underwater. I need to put this in the bin because I can't concentrate with poo in my hand. Oh no, and that is a big smelly one.

It is, yeah. I wonder as well then, if becoming well known, did that feel validating? Ah, very interesting question. Superficially. Right. Superficially it did. And then, as my friend Jen Brister said so eloquently once about...

Oh, I love her. I want to get her on this podcast. Yeah, she's amazing. And I was talking to her about when you talk to comics, and they kind of remind me of me, like newer comics, that I kind of feel that I'm not going to be happy until I'm successful. And then Jen goes, yeah, and then you get there, and it's just all dust.

What I found was getting on telly and stuff, suddenly it was like I was getting invites to weddings of people I didn't know. And, you know, getting all these party invites that I understand were networking things. I get that now. but at the time I actually thought there were friendships and it took me a long time to work out that this wasn't friendship this is a business and my mind didn't really work like that about comedy and I wish I'd had a mentor or something to explain it all to me but I didn't so I ended up getting quite hurt because things just weren't really real and then I just got a shit loads of therapy and also I'll tell you a little another thing is so my dad's a you know he's very very well he's famous right in Iran or he was back in the 70s and 80s and um it was such a thing with the Iranian community when they found out whose daughter

I was really yeah what in this country huge so they'd go oh this is had de Kossani's daughter had he called so much attention for being hardy Kossadi's daughter and then at school just being like you know dumpy girl that was last to be I'm so sorry. Picked in games, that's all right. You're your little doggy. Just sitting there like a smush. If anyone's not going to judge me for forgetting to turn my phone off, it's shaps.

Oh yeah. I don't judge anyone for anything. Oh, that's another dog barking at Taylor. And there's a little corgi, Welsh corgi or something. You don't see corgis that often, you know. No. They're quite rare these days. They're not the best dogs around children.

Are they not? No, because they're so. small but they've got sort of um a very sort of big dog vibe and so kids treat them like they're a like raymond or yeah they're not they're not they're interesting bye bye corgi they need to be they look like me when they run i look like that when i run with your tail fan with a little bottom in the air um yeah that's interesting when you talk about that you know you were known as hadie cosandie's daughter and I wonder so I was a nepo baby but like by proxy but not in the actual industry or country that it would have served me but I can see why you would want to find your own light no I didn't

you know I think is I just right so I felt that I couldn't excel at school like I loved English I love drama I love French and I love sociology and I hit in history everything else I felt miserably and I felt so invisible at school and I had this life at home where I was like you know had your cross and his daughter and I'd go to school and I just it was really tough in the 80s I didn't look the part in school I was not one of us you know cool kids and all of that stuff and when I did impressions I made people laugh you did mr. Thatcher didn't you I did Mrs Thatcher and I did like people at school and I remember one girl where like Shappi's a character man, Shapparach's a character and I was like oh my God one of

the core kids just said I'm a character I am indeed a character because I could I could do impressions of the teachers and at home I did impressions and made all my my parents had parties every night and I made them all laugh and my dad was basically gave me the most attention when I made people laugh and I know that's a real cliche that but but it's Yeah, getting my dad's attention, you had to make him laugh. Right. You know, he... And you had, I'm imagining, because we discovered this on our epic journey, Thelman Louise Car Ride to Adam Kays, that you and I had a similar, albeit in different countries, but my parents were very literary.

We didn't have money, so we didn't have status. I was embarrassed because my parents sent me to private school and they all had money and I thought, who are we? Because we've got all these books, you know, and we have these incredible intellects round. but we're sort of quite poor, so I don't really know where we belong. Yeah, exactly that. My dad got loads of kudos because of who he was, but we didn't have the, you know... The status symbols that normally go along with sort of, you know. That sort of thing.

And also it was part of who my dad is. You know, he's a socialist. He was never going to be comfortable. Yeah, my dad was too. I was going to say driving an Audi because I couldn't think of a single posh car. What's a better car than an ad? We don't know

posh car. I tell you what they have now Teslas. They like Tesla's, don't they? Maserati. Yes. Let's not do Elon Musta. Oh yes. No, that's people who like Putin like Teslas, don't they? I always think if someone drives a Tesla I'm like, okay.

I think you might be in favour of capital punishment. Yeah. Yeah. Or some people have cars you think, You've just pinned your bank balance on your head, haven't you? So, yes, we had all that. I can tell who you voted for at the last election. Show me the car, and I'll show you what box you ticked. I voted green.

Did you? At the last election, I didn't vote Labor. It was interesting when you were talking about, you know, becoming a comedian, finally, because I know you went to university. It's now called the University of Winchester, isn't it? It wasn't there? Is it King Alfred's College?

And you, after that, because did you do, was it theatre or drama or something you did that? Oh, this is the thing, because I have ADHD. Yeah. And I didn't read the prospectus properly. I thought I was doing, all I read was drama theatre television. I thought they're going to train me to be a TV presenter and with a bit of acting and teach me to write radio plays. but I got there and it was a highly politicised course run by these sort of Marxists

and it was a experimental course and it was all theory and it was all like drama and theatre and television in politics and in the community so it was really a sort of arty political sciences course and I was like

oh and after the first lecture they said any questions and I said is there an end of term play And they went, no, I know. I know. I was like, oh, and I'd been accepted at Loughbredderd, but by then I'd, I remember it. Oh, Jamie! Is she running towards a motorway? No, she's all right. Jamie, here! Jamie! Here! Jamie! Good girl. And he took five times. Good girl. Taylor, come here! So, you're such a good girl! Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah. Let's go up here. up there yeah okay so let's get on to oh we'll get you so oh yeah so with so then with comedy so i kind of felt really invisible at school and i never found my tribe and then saturday night live

ben elton and all that lot rick mail alexie sale yeah um harry nfield i i thought i found my world these people are speaking to me um i need to be part of the of this world. Ben Elton especially because of the whole, you know, the sort of lefty student staff and it just spoke to me and I was flabbergasted when I'd go into school the next day and not everyone had been glued to their and that's when I really found my tribe and then my dad started to get me like comedy cassette tapes of like Richard Pryor and you know oh gosh I can't remember anyone's name because my brain doesn't work. And I just got obsessed with stand-up.

I just thought it was the coolest thing. And I knew that that's what I wanted to do. But it took me a long, long time to get consistently okay or good at it because I was just full of anxiety. And one of the stories I love is that when you were, you know, like a lot of people breaking into that business, you were having to do odd jobs to support yourself. You've done your time, cleaning, working in Petre-Manger.

And then you worked in a call centre. and wasn't Alan Carr there? Yeah. So I worked in this call centre in Farrington and everyone there seemed to be hustling in some other autistic career. And I remember they let me interview new callers and Alan Carr came in. And I just remember I thought he was so confident

because you know that thing about having a need and telling another human being that you have that need? and asking for it to be met. That's taking me years to do. Me too. Like, I will hold in a wee because I'm too shy to ask someone whether Lou is. He came into an interview and went,

it was a really hot day and he goes, oh, I'm sweaty, Betty. You couldn't get us a cup of tea, a cup of water, would you? And I remember just going, I could never walk into it. I would just be sandmouth. And I thought, always going to be huge.

Really? Yeah. because i listened into his call what does he say oh he was completely off script he was he was raising money for um water aid i think it was something like that and you know everyone's got a script they keep to and i remember i listened to him to his call because i was like a kind of a little supervisor by then and he was going oh no this whole village they've got no clue they had one bucket of clean water and the other day an ox just came along and stuck his head in it 20 pounds a month, thank you. So kind. And I was like, and I said, you should be a comedian. He went,

that's the plan. I was like, oh, he's going to be huge. Yeah. Did he remember when you saw him all those years later? I think so, yeah. Because we used to like go back in those days, we used to go and have a pint at lunchtime together. If I had a pint at lunchtime, I'd just fall asleep for three days. I knew it's so interesting because you obviously became hugely successful but it took a while didn't it and you were doing shows at Edinburgh. Yeah. It was joining you eventually your manager who was also a great friend of mine the lovely Addison Crestwell who's no longer with us but I thought he was a big part of your kind of career. Well he was my plan. I saw back then I knew that if I got him as my manager and by then I think I was I'd been going for 10 years and I wanted to have a child and I I needed to make a living now

you need to make proper money because there's that thing with comedy isn't there where you can keep going as a kind of club comic and you can make decent weekly money from gigs but then you go into that next level which is the sort of like beginning of it is live at the Apollo almost isn't it it was back then certainly I can't have a baby and be going to Swansea on a Thursday evening. None of us can be. But yeah so he really helped me but I do feel quite when I look back on it I got a lot of chances when I wasn't mentally well and so I didn't really utilize them and I and I was going through a divorce and all of that and it all happened like in my mid 30s to late 30s and then after I had my daughter I sort of was so I had my, so I had my son. Yeah, we should explain. So you had your son with your first husband.

Yeah. Are we allowed to name him? Christian, yeah. And then my career was going really well. And then we divorced and I had a breakdown. Yeah. Really. And I was just messing up left front.

I remember being on Jonathan Rocheo and crying before I went on about my divorce. I was crying everywhere. And I remember once, you know, my manager said to me, you know you're you're darling yeah you know I love you right but you are becoming the divorce ball you're clearing rooms he was always honest we loved him for it and now now it would be different I think now everyone's got so much more of an understanding and vocabulary around mental health and back then also now you talk about Alan car asking for the glass of water no one knew because now you would ask for that I think now you would advocate for yourself and

you'd say I need two months off actually Alison and he'd probably say okay yeah but you know what it was the circuit was so different then there were so few women and I was having a breakdown and my cousin oh hello love you're all right nice to see someone else's poo so I'm good we should warn you we're doing a podcast so this is being recorded so don't say anything you're going to regret I don't want you to say anything and then think oh my god you didn't tell me I just have Lovely to meet you.

Lovely to see you. Bye, love. I love that woman's energy. I don't know who she is, but I love her. She's my neighbour opposite. Obsessed with her. And my neighbourhood is so amazing. I went on holiday with 40 families in my neighbourhood.

96 of us all together, including the children. If there was anyone else, I'd go, what? Because it's you, that feels like a Tuesday. That's so you. Honestly, it's like... We need to get back to your... Korea by the way. Oh yeah. So I had my baby and I remember I was going through such a terrible time and I was on telly all the time and I was just missing up, missing up chances because I just

was broken and I had a cousin, a distant cousin who's very wealthy and he had a beautiful hotel in Thailand and he said Shappi pick up your baby and come and stay here for a couple of months and just let us look after you. And did you? No. I went, I'm a female comedian. If I disappear, I'll get forgotten. And I wanted, I just didn't have the understanding of looking after myself.

You didn't do a Ryland? No. Do you know what? I read Ryland's book and I was like, oh, you brilliant, brilliant man. And the decade between us shows, I think he's about 10, 15 years younger than me, understanding that if you don't look after your mental health, everything will go to shift anyway. And I was offered chances. But again, there was so few women then.

Of course. That I felt that I was fighting constantly to be part of the gang. And guess what you were? Yeah, I was. You know, you weren't imagining that. No, I wasn't imagining yet. It was like I didn't want any. And so, yeah, it was really bad.

And then I had another baby on my own without a father. The dad wasn't in the picture, yeah. Yeah, he wasn't in the picture. He very much left the picture. We am. I was left holding the picture in my hand. She can't say. On my ultrasound.

I'm not a huge fan of his, but that's just my personal opinion. There is still, in my house, a sort of cartoon whole shape of his body after I showed him the ultrasound. Never saw him again, never saw him again, but thank you for my beautiful daughter. and for her aptitude for maths and athletics. Yes. So. He served his purpose. Yeah, well, you know, you've got to look on the bright side.

Look at this. These two are going to get on, I reckon. Ray, go on Ray, say hello. Nice day for it. Yeah. Ray, say hello to these dogs. Dogs love it. What do you got in there?

Mindy, Vitchin. Yeah, she's a bit chivalry. Hello, little park, aren't you? Hello. She is so chivalry. We've met a beautiful pug. I love her. Do you know, Ray's a bit shivery as well?

Yeah, you're all. She's got your stick. I know. Come on. Bye. Take care. Bye now. Look at all those dogs.

There's a beautiful. Looks like a border collie, I think. Beautiful. Beautiful. So, yeah, so, yeah, I had my daughter, and then I, my focus went a lot more on looking after myself, and I wrote a novel and I sort of... And you went on, I need to discuss I'm a celebrity.

Because do you know what? I think that was probably a really good thing for you to do in some ways. Yeah. Because you did I'm a celebrity. You and I talked about this in the car. I waited a respectful 15 minutes before I brought it up because I was dying to know about it. And it was fascinating.

You know, you were so honest about it to me because you said, you said, I walked in the... and I sort of felt, oh, I didn't know that this is, you're meant to create a story for yourself and a narrative. You don't just go on and be yourself. Yeah. You don't, you, yeah, there's a game. Yeah. And the thing with me is that I didn't even watch it before I went on. I don't prepare. Again, if we can just talk about Rylan. He did Celebrity MasterShare. You did it as well. I did it too. And he practices things. And you thought, if I do well at this, if I win this. I know, I'm going to hose her down when I get home.

Taylor has just rough. Yeah. I need to take a picture of that. Sorry. Oh my God, Taylor. You can't keep Taylor out. She's literally two colours now. The whole undercoat is round.

But you know what, though, retrievers, because they're double-coated. If we stay in the park for long enough, it will just fall off. She's having the best time. Oh, she loves it. So go on, so you said, riding on Mastership. I didn't plan. Whenever I went on telethings, I didn't research, I didn't look, I didn't go, what's my game plan? What's my game plan?

And sometimes I have kicked myself about that, but now I think it's not me. If it was me, I'd have done it. If I'd wanted it, I would have done it. And when I was a I was a name of celebrity, I knew I'd be the first or second out, because I knew I would be kind of boring, because I'd plan not to, I didn't want to cry and I didn't want to have an argument with anyone. And when I came out, Richard Osmond wrote me the most beautiful text message that just distilled my experience. He said, it was your way of finding out what you really want and seeing for yourself, you know, that sort of ITV fame made you figure out what's important to you and what's not.

And I was like, yeah, it was a bit of a wild way to do it. But I thought, oh, I see what the people that were on it that were really good on it. it like yeah you're really there was it was Georgia Toffler who won it and she was the person on there I probably had the best chats with yes I had her on here and I thought she was lovely yeah I had the best chats with her and when I came out she said you're so good at this and she goes well I was a maiden Chelsea and she goes my brain is wired yeah for this and if I did it now I think I would really enjoy it yes because I've learned a lot more about myself um But yeah, it was...

Helps to be medicated as well. I needed to be medicated. I really need... If I'd had my ADHD pill, I would have had a blast. Yeah. And you know what I did on it? I don't know if I should tell you this or not. Another one of my lies.

I don't like eating things that are revolting. And the second I found out I was in the running to be on it, I went vegan. I just went vegan. and I carried it through. Like I live my lives. I'm covert operation, right? And I became a vegan and I told all the producers I'm a vegan

so I wasn't put up for any eating trials because I did not want to put a life. Is that when they say, Jutah, what is it, special circumstances? What's the reason they leave you out? Special circumstances, yeah. The medical reasons, Shabby, will not be taking part.

And I always think, I do think that, shaps. Do you have a big fat light? Shat me or not. No, but I did continue being a vegan for a whole year afterwards, but I relapsed on eggs. I mean, it could be worse. Yeah, I'm always trying to. So that experience, you wouldn't say you were necessarily a fan

of reality TV per se after that, but it was a learning, it was a teachable moment. My kids were really small as well. So my daughter was only four. Good money. I bet. Of course. When people said like, why are you doing it? I'd go, what, do you think? Yeah, do you think? Or deposit for a house, you know, whatever. It's not for the experience. It's not so I can dry Stanley Johnson's pants over a fire, which is another thing I've done in my life. I was sorry, I got so excited. And they'd ask me before, and it got to, the money got to a point where as a single mother, I'd have been stupid to turn it down.

So it probably a year's salary or something. Yes. And my builder, Adrian, who I was on a podcast the other day and I was talking about him coming to my show. And Nish Kumar said, that is quintessential shappi. There's people working on her house and she drags them to her show in the evening. Yeah.

But he said, you had a plan, didn't you? Because you said to me that you're not going to see your children for three weeks. because you're in like complete lockdown for a week or two before. So you knew you'd come out first. I was like, yeah, my daughter's four years old. And then they make you stay there for the next month, while the show's on, don't know. With your family in a five-star hotel. I missed my children on that program.

Let me take a picture of you with your stick, beautiful girl. To the point of madness. I missed the kids to the point of madness, but for three weeks, I'd have been mad not to do it. So I want to touch on your current dates that you're doing, and this is with Scatterbrain, isn't it? Yes. You're touching the tree.

Did you like it? Yeah, I like touching the tree, but also I'm getting some stick gunk off my hand. I understand. I thought this was a big sort of spiritual moment. Oh, no, did you think it was me going, and then also what I like to do is I like to talk to the trees as I caress them gently.

I thought this is going on. No, no, no. So tell me, Scatterbrain was the book. you wrote which I absolutely loved and I found it so I mean it's a brilliantly written book so honest and also just very insightful and a brilliant read and you have you've been doing you have a live show kind of the same name don't you yeah so my live show scatterbrain is all about ADHD and late diagnosis ADHD and you know what it still blows my mind that I'm saying this stuff out loud

and people share the experience with me. I thought I was on my own all my life, this weird problem I had of not being able to concentrate, not being able to stop talking, and then sometimes not being able to talk. And this anxiety I had and how I learned to mask,

and if you're not familiar, if any of your listeners aren't familiar with masking, it's basically pretending. Pretending that you're, okay and coping and socialising and all of this and then going home and utterly unravelling. And it's why it's very common as well for kids with ADHD to be labelled as problem or difficult or drama queens. Language like that is often used because you're so... Or asshole.

Bitch, I go. Because you're masking, you're masking all the time when you're out and people can't believe it. So Emily's always so lovely and polite and organised. She's so efficient. And then you go home and it's when you can release and be yourself But sometimes you release so much that I have a meltdown. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was the thing that I was the most honest about in my book was my meltdowns In front of my children or at my children. Yeah. And then going I cannot be screaming like this. I cannot be behaving like a toddler. What did your son? Cass said something that made me cry. He said lots of

the things that made me cry. When he was three, he said, you're not shouting it. You're not angry with me. You're angry with something else, but only I'm here. I know, but isn't that amazing? And I was like, whoa. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. And then when he was about eight, I had a meltdown. I said, darling, I'm so sorry. I never want you to think this behavior is acceptable. And he went, that's okay, I don't. And they both, you know, they both have seen a massive change in me. But I did to him last night, he's 18 now, I said, you know, I hope that one day you'll find your way to therapy. Does that get us on to the road chat? Yeah, that's where you go. I've got to go this way. You go this way, yeah. Because I think Cass has learned really well to cope with my emotions.

Yeah. And I'm very aware that he might not actually have felt there's space for his. So my daughter's different because by the time she came along, I was much better mentally. But when you've had a mum who's been through a breakdown when you've been a toddler, you know, there's stuff that needs to be... We're going now, Taylor. Addressed. We're going now. And I'll say that to him.

Let's stand here while we say a goodbyes under the shelter. Yeah, I'll say that to him and he'll just say something really funny and witty with possibly a bit of Latin in it. And then I'm like, you see, you're deflecting with humour. this is a problem well if people want to get tickets they should go to your website yeah yeah yeah my comedy show yeah it's called scatterbrain and I've it's just the last leg of my tour this year and shappie.co.uk is my website and all the tour dates are there oh and actually Emily I really want you to come to my new show that I just started writing oh what's this it's called recovering people pleaser and it was slightly

inspired by our trip to Adam's party that car journey. Are you joking? Yeah. Because I think that people pleasing comes from a place of trauma and pain. And so many people relate to it and so many people pleases are undermined in work, in relationships. And I think that it's a relatable comedy subject, I think. Oh, look. Oh, look.

Oh, it was my dog. You know the dog that's barking incessantly and you're going, who's that annoying dog? That's your dog. Taylor, come on, darling. I love it when it's someone else's dog barking. It's like when someone else's baby's crying. You go, oh, God, it's not. But you know what?

That's made me, I'm so thrilled to hear that. And what a brilliant show that's going to be. Yeah, because I think that. Because I inspired it, so it will be the best one you've ever done. Taylor, here. And then it's also like, nice to be but people please are, inspired by the worst people please or I know. But no, we did talk about that because it's when other people notice...

Leave it! So East Enders. Leave it! It's not worth it. She's not worth it, Hay. Ray, leave it. Oh, look at... I've got to take a photo of Ray for my daughter.

Come on. Shaps, we need to let you go now. I've had such a lovely time with you, have you? Have you enjoyed it? It was great. Was the interview okay? Yes. Am I going to walk off and go, oh my God, I just banged on about terrorism

and that's not going to make anyone want to come to my comedy shows? Yes, yes. You are, but that doesn't mean it's true. Okay. Do you see what I mean? You're going to do it, but that doesn't make it true. And then, also, will you come to my house for dinner and I can tell you all the things that I couldn't say on there?

Yes. Okay, cool. And I'll secretly record you so my listeners can hear it. You know what? I'll probably put them all in my show. I'll see the bits that you laugh at and I'll keep them and put them in my show. I've loved our walk and please go and see...

I'm going to use your formal name for this because it's a formal occasion, which is your gig. Yeah. So, Sharpaac Kossandi in her brilliant show Scatterbrain. You should buy her book, Scatterbrain, which I absolutely love. I think I've read it a couple of times now. I love it so much. It's had the most amazing reaction.

I was blown away by people's reaction to my book. Yeah, it's amazing. And all of that has just made my comedy just a lot more me. I used to feel that every bloody gig I did felt like an audition. I do feel now like I've got the job. So much more fun. I think you've got the job. I've got the job.

Can you say goodbye to Ray, Ray? Goodbye, Ray, and one day you shall come and live with me, and we shall be happy together. Hey! No, sorry, sorry, I'm so sorry. Sorry. I'm a bit creepy. Sorry. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed.

And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.