Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Shirley Ballas

Episode Date: October 26, 2021

This week Emily and Ray went for a walk with Shirley Ballas and her Lhasa Apso, Charlie. They chatted about how Shirley fell in love with dancing at a young age, her role as a mum, and of course, the current series of Strictly Come Dancing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

He looks like a handbag. Charlie Ballas has just said my dog looks like a handbag. Look how cute he looks. Look at his fur. He's just like draped in her arm. It's like I'm not walking another step, dear. This week on Walking the Dog, I went for a stroll in London's Dulwich Park with Queen of Ballroom dancing and strictly judge Shirley Ballas and her beautiful Lassa Apso Charlie.

I brought along my dog Raymond, who Shirley took an enormous shine to. But unsurprisingly perhaps, Shirley's dog Charlie's dog Charlie, was rather more disciplined and well trained than mine. Shirley seems an incredibly honest and open person and she was happy to chat about all aspects of her life so we did. We talked about her childhood in Wallersey being brought up by a single mum, how she completely fell in love with dancing at an early age and the strong work ethic and perfectionism that led to her huge success. We chatted about her role as a mum and her son Mark who rather brilliantly advises her on her wardrobe and she clearly adores him. And she also told me about her role as a mum and her son Mark, who rather brilliantly advises her wardrobe.

And she also told me about the tragic loss of her brother David, who she says she still thinks about every single day. We talk too about the current series of Strictly, which you can obviously see Shirley on every Saturday and Sunday on BBC One. I honestly had the best time walking with Charlie and Shirley. In fact, I'm going to give them a perfect tin. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. I'll stop talking and hand over to the woman herself.

Here's Shirley and Charlie and Raymond. They're going to get on. A little sniff of the bum and then he's ready to go. Come on Charlie, come on Raymond. I think Charlie's going to be quicker than Raymond, Shirley. No, Charlie will go at the pace I go at and if he runs ahead he'll come back. Oh, you've got him well-drained. He is the most well-behaved dog and what he does is he'll kind of wag his bum and then he'll dart to see another dog but he only, he means friendly, you know, but the other dogs get scared.

Doesn't matter how big the dog is. Oh, here. we go. Poop number one. Shirley, he's doing such a neat poop. Charlie, was that a neat poo, babe? What's that a neat poo? I knew your dog would have immaculate. Oh, it's runny. Oh, is it running? Bit on the runny side. Oh, that looks very attractive, doesn't it? Oh, there's a bin. Looks like a Find the bin. Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. So, Shirley, we're in your manner.

We're in the Dulwich area. Yes. And is this where you... Do you come here often is what I'm saying? I moved here when Mark was four. He's now 35. So this area had a house that was on the park and then when I got divorced I moved to another house

but stayed in the area. and yeah and now I've moved back and was able to move back into the house so it's good and we're with your beautiful dog

Charlie my Lassa Apsu and I actually can say it now because I used to say Lapa Atsu and it's Lassa Apsu and he's like a Tibetan dog that they're warriors they're protectors

he's the most lovable kind dog that you can possibly imagine And I think he's exceptionally well behaved, actually. Aren't you Charlie? Charlie, I'm beautiful. Well, I'm going to formally introduce you because I'm so excited to have this.

I'm going to go Ike on on Walking the Dog. I'm with a very wonderful Shirley Ballas and Charlie, and I brought Raymond. What do you make of Raymond? He's right behind you. I think Raymond looks beautiful. It's like a little Ewok off Star Wars. And he's got the tiniest little short legs,

bit like my ex-husband's actually just kidding listeners just kidding they were 5'4 six and had short legs but that's okay it's okay you've got a long you've got the greyhound leg

you say if you were a dog you'd be the greyhound oh look they're running together that's so cute that is adorable I think they'll get on really well absolutely Charlie will watch out for him and he's saying

Come on, play with me, Raymond. And he never barks. Come on, Charlie. Come on, Raymond. So tell me, I've read your absolutely brilliant book. Thank you. And it was out last year, wasn't it? That's correct.

And so I feel I know quite a bit about your childhood. And I wanted to know, I didn't get the sense. You didn't have dogs growing up, did you? Had a cat called Lucas and a goldfish. called Percy. No, my mother was definitely, while I was tiny, tiny, because she was working, we didn't. She loves animals, my mother is a dog person.

And later on, we took her sister's dog, which was a corgi, the queen's dog, called Judy. And then she had a spring of spaniel. So we have had animals in our house. We're more dog lovers than cat lovers, although my brother, who passed his daughter is a cat lover. She can't live without her cats, Mary.

Your mum worked really hard to raise you guys, didn't she? She did. Because your dad left when you were relatively small. Two, he left. I think maybe even a little earlier than that really. That was a disastrous marriage, I think. Was it? Didn't work out for them at all.

Although, I have to say, all the years following, I never heard my mother say a negative word about him at all. even though she used to get us dressed on a Sunday for him to pick us up and he'd never pick us up and we wouldn't see him for six months or a year. So I think that really hurt the soul of her, you know. That's really tough that, isn't it?

I understand that because I think I had a dad who was sort of unpredictable, you know, and I knew people whose dads had just disappeared out of the picture and I sort of thought at least you can sort of draw a line under it, whereas it's that sense of will he, won't he? Well, I think probably sometimes it's better. This is just my perspective, is to be completely out the picture rather than promising children, you know, okay, your dolly for Christmas is in the mail

and I'd wait and it would never come. Or, you know, I'll send this for you and he never did. He never helped with a pair of dance shoes. He never helped with anything to do with anything I did, not a penny. I'm talking not a penny. I mean, not a penny. That's really tough, isn't it? It was for my mother.

Yeah. Because she was on the bones of her ass, you know what I mean? So it was difficult. So the area that you grew up, is it the we're all or would you say? The Liso housing estate in Wallersey. Wallercy, isn't it? Yes, Wollossey. My mum's still there at the moment, but she is fixing to move in with me.

And, yeah, I get the sense when you were growing up that your mum was one of those real, She kept a clean, immaculate house and always had sort of standards, really, despite your sort of financial hardships. We lived in a flat in Cameron Road, and back in those days you didn't have indoor heating, there was no refrigerators, no phones, but we did have marly tiles that she would polish every day. And if you walked on them in your socks, you broke your neck. So I do remember keeping this shiny, shiny floor, and she was always clean in the windows. and still is to this day at 80 floor, she's absolutely immaculate. You know, there's always the curtains

are going in the washing machine or something's being done. She never sits idle. She has a routine and she sticks to her routine. She is beyond impressive, I think. What sort of a little girl were you, Shirley? I think as a little girl, I didn't always accept criticism well

and I was always looking for approval. I wanted to be told I'd done a good job or I was doing okay or, you know. My mother wasn't over and over tactile person and she also wasn't overly complimentary. But when you did get a compliment, even to this day, actually, it's precious and it means something.

So nothing in life is for free, she used to say, keep working hard. No one will give you nothing, don't expect anything. And make sure you're always self-sufficient is what she told me. And you have been? I have been. I think the thing that really I was struck by was how bloody determined you were to dance from a young age.

I think at the time I didn't realize it was a determination. I think that work ethic had been so drilled into me and I loved the music and the dancing so much. I just never missed it. I never missed it. Not one Saturday come hell, high water, rain, snow. I always used to walk the couple of miles to get there, you know. And I took myself along to the class, the first class where normally you go with your parent. I went myself and enrolled myself.

My mother gave me the 15P for the class. And, yeah, I still remember that. So you were very independent, weren't you? Independent because of my brother and I were, you know, my mother was always working. So we didn't have a choice. We learned how to prepare meals. We learned how to do the shopping. Look at that one, Shirley.

Yeah, Scotty. Cuter. Well, he is. He looks. like a handbag. I don't know. Shirley Bellis has just said my dog looks like a handbag. Look how cute he looks.

Look at his fur. He's just like draped in her arm. It's like I'm not walking another step dear. Oh look at that. Look at the way that poodle's walking. Proper catwalk strats. Oh, aren't you cute? Have you seen Charlie?

Have you had a little look, Charlie? Oh, no. He's like, no. He's like, no, I don't think I'll bother. Go on, Charlie, say hello. And this is his favourite time of the day, Charlie. And Charlie is passed along like a handbag, actually. My friends take him, my neighbour, Ranji, he's very good.

She had him this weekend when I was busy. He'll go with anybody. He's so easy, you know. As long as he gets a cuddle, he's fine. He's a cuddler. He's a definite lap dog. He always wants to be sat next to you and with you and around you

So tell me, from the age of seven You were sort of fairly obsessed by dancing And you were at Brownies and you saw a dancecloth Didn't you go on? I did, it was in the church hall, St Chad's Church And I could hear this music playing in the other room And I went along to the room And there was a little glass portal

And I pulled myself up To see what was going on and that was the first time I saw the chop, chop, char. And it was to the music wheels, and I opened the door, and I asked the gentleman Vic Knox, as his name is. I asked him if there was children's classes. That was definitely the brat of the pack, that one, wasn't it? Charlie's like, oh, we don't deal with that, we don't deal with that, dear.

Yes, and that was my first insight here in the music and seeing the dancing. And then I started that Saturday, and I never looked. I look back, I think the only time I ever had off from dance was a little bit when I left my first husband and then when I had my son. But I've never really taken a break from it, not to this day. I keep my teaching and lecturing up and I, you know. What I'm interested in, though, is that the idea that you get a dance partner and it almost feels surely, and this may not be true now, but certainly back then, it feels like you get a dance partner and then you sort of have a relationship with them almost automatically. I had a little girl partner first called Irene Hamilton. She was my first dance partner. And then I got a guy called David Fleet and I stayed with his family and Kirby,

nice friends. We had a little courtship going on there for a minute. And yeah, and then Nigel got engaged, Sammy got married, Corky, got married. I feel like when you got together with Sammy, that was when you really started sort of rising up through the ranks, wasn't it? That was, that was a meteoric rise. That was a from zero to hero rise. rise. That was a dream come true because my teacher, Nina Hunt, who was also his teacher, saw potential in me. But Sammy had never heard of me. So he, I remember him saying to me,

I don't know who you are, I don't know where you come from, Shirley Rich, but you've got this try out because of our teacher and our mutual teacher, and let's have a little look. And he was quite fierce and strong and yeah. And that's where it all started and it was a whirlwind, you know, being together. I think growing up, I know you said you used to get teased by... Bullied? Bullied? Actually bullied, yeah.

When you were a kid, did you get bullied? I did. You know, it was because my mother had me in Elocution. I was always trying to better myself in some way or other, and she liked me to go to Elocution. I learned the fly by Walter Delamere. I got honours in that. And she loved that.

And then, of course, I was... I'd be practicing my poetry and people thought I was trying to be better than them. And then I had the dancing. I'd be organising everyone in the playground to dance formation teams because Peggy Spencer's Penge formation team was the hit at the time. And people didn't like that. They like you to just be under the radar and I was always trying. I was always above the radar.

So yeah, I got picked on and beaten up on the field. And then I broke my leg doing high jump and one girl said to me, She said, you'll never dance again now, look at you, things like that, and you worry about things like that when you're a kid, you know. So it was unsettling. But I think it just pushed me. Not that it made you hard, but it definitely put an outer shell on you, you know. You had this meteorite rise, as you say with Sammy,

and then old corkey came in the picture. We had this meteorite rise. We became, within four or five years, we were already the British Open to the World Champions. We got married. And I think we got married for the wrong reasons, really. We got married because it was dance. It wasn't like we ever dated. It wasn't like we ever had holidays or date night or really even got to know each other on the personal basis. I got to know much better once I left than I ever did while I was married to him. And then, yeah, I met Corky. moved to the United States to cut a long story short. That's all in my book. That was really... Realised I'd made a mistake after three months, wanted to come back. Sammy wouldn't have me.

So my mum said you made a choice. You better figure out a way here. It must have been really strange, though, because you'd suddenly gone into this strange world of sort of Texas wealth. And you're quite a grounded person, it strikes me as. It's suddenly a monogromatown towel. But I think it was at first what I enjoyed was there was time off, there was a bit of a holiday,

there was somebody paid me personal attention to myself and I think that I enjoyed that. But after three months I realised it wasn't for me. You know, I went back to work, I trained corkey from scratch as a dancer, even though everybody had lost faith with me in Great Britain. Nobody ever thought, not even my mob, there would be another go-round, the merry go-round. And the thing was, I won with Sammy, but Sammy always remained in second place or first place after I left, so he didn't drop anything in results. When I came back with Corky, we went back to the first round and started from scratch.

I believe in fate, though. I believe sometimes I'm a bit strange. I do believe our lives are somewhat mapped out, and then we're given choices. And I wouldn't ever say that I made the wrong choice because I have a beautiful son with Corky, you know, and the experiences when I went back around that industry again. with Corky. I learned more about the industry. With Sammy, it was a meteoric rise. With Corky it was like a turtle. You couldn't go any slower. It was gradual and you had to learn the industry and... And you had to teach him. Oh I taught him from scratch. I

did. And he was not an easy student. He used to say stick with me, I'll take you places. And then he couldn't, you know, didn't know what a Walter or a fan was or anything. And stick with me. I'll take your places, Shirley. I'm the one. And he was like, he was coated in this like suit of armour. Nothing sort of bothered him, you know what I mean? Go on, Charlie. He grew up with money as well.

When you go out with money, you do have that confidence. Well, when his family started off, when his family started off, they didn't have any money. But the father then opened a big dance studio called dance city. USA, biggest dance studio in the world. He did the syllabus for the Fred Astaire chain, so they did have some dancing. And they started to do quite well.

And then he invented the weed eater, and of course that skyrocketed him into another realm of money. But you know, you can have all that money at the end of the day. They died. Broke people, they lost all their money, and bad financing, bad people managing. So again, you learn things from that, you know. You had Mark, obviously, as you say,

which I imagine is one of the best things you've ever done. I was 25. We just got married and I was ill on the honeymoon. And I thought like maybe a urinary tract infection or something. And I went to the doctor and he goes, nope, you don't have that, Shirley. But you're going to be pregnant. You're going to be a mother. I said absolutely not. You've got that all wrong. I'm on the pill. Nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, afraid to tell you. So it took me several weeks to.

And I remember telling my mum and she goes, oh, you're not. I never forget that life. I mean, we fast got used to it, but it was in the middle of a career I was trying to rebuild and had to rebuild it in the United States. I had to become the United States champion first and then the British champion. You know, it was a format. And I really felt for you actually, just this sense that I felt you were under quite a lot of pressure to lose weight after you had a baby. I think I was under pressure pretty much. all my life and weight issues, body image issues.

You know, I didn't have, I read some stories, I get quite emotional when I think, I read some stories about some people in TV and they talk about being daddy's girl, and the reason why they've got such wonderful husbands is because the dad showed them the way. And I never had anything to balance anything off with about a man. I really, truly didn't.

My brother, I mean, he was a brother, he was a father, he was everything, but, you know, he was just 18 months older than me. So he didn't have a life experience of all that. And I think it was difficult. Everything always felt like swimming upstream. I wouldn't change anything for the world, you know. But sometimes when I sit by myself, I think, you know, it was quite lonely.

You can be married and in a relationship with people. And you can also have a lot of friends, but you're still lonely. You're still in that place. And I think that was probably, I kept busy for the sake of keeping busy because I, I was lonely, I think. But, you know, if I look back and, you know, people are saying, oh, you made this mistake or that mistake, but did I, because I've got this most beautiful human as a child,

did I make the wrong? Did I take the wrong path? Because if I'd have taken a different path, I wouldn't have him and he is in my life. And actually, interestingly, it's interesting, the way that you were forced to go back and learn how to teach, really, with Corky, which sort of gave you...

With no one believing in me. Nobody. Not my mother, not my teachers. They all said, and then when I got pregnant, they said, have your baby, stay where you are, you'll never amount to anything, you'll be nothing but a wallflower. So it was those words, those constant, from a young child, you know, another mother telling me, oh, you've got acne, you're going to pull pock skin,

and you're too fat, and you... I think all those things combined, some people, would shrivel under it and I think I excelled with it. I, you know, having school dinners even, we'd go to the gate. My brother was so embarrassed. I remember him, I can't go in there. And the kids at the gate, you're on welfare, you're on welfare. One child, my brother, would go and hide and wouldn't go for his dinner.

And I'd figured out in the queue where to go to get the biggest helping. And then I'd come out and they'd say, you're on welfare, you've got no dad. Look at you with your free school dinners. and I'd say, and look at you with the cheese sandwich, because I've just had a two-course dinner. You know, so I took everything a different way. I was never frightened to ask for help, or, you know, if we had no sugar at home,

I'd be the one who's, my mother couldn't ask for anything. She's so different from me. She's such a private person. She's so quiet. She's so not a shareer of her life. And sometimes she looks, she says, I don't know where you came from, Shirley. I'm so the opposite to her,

but then I think about who do you think, you are and all those strong women that are on my dad's side. I think about that and I think maybe I got those skills, you know. I'm telling you, your dog's spoiled. Shirley's lovely rep is here and I'm afraid she's having to carry Ray. Just for the listeners, I want you to know that Laura, my publicist, is now carrying Ray because he doesn't want to walk and he's having his cuddle and just having a lovely little rest in the arms of Laura. Laura seems to be enjoying it. Laura loves dogs.

Oh, that's handy, Shirley. Because she's got a hands full this afternoon. Charlie's like you. He's more self-sufficient, you see. Charlie's independent but extremely well-behaved. That's like you. My mother always thought I was a bit, you know, you're always got to have the last word, Shirley. You've always got to answer back. But I think she raised me to be strong and independent, even though.

So when I was married to the two husbands at the beginning of those relationships, I was really quite submissive when I look back. Are you? Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine that. It took me a minute to find my feet. Both were strong personalities, both of them. Both husbands were strong personalities.

I still talk to Sammy today, and Nigel Tiffany, my first fiancé, is my financial advisor. Corky, you know, we've had a few bumps along the way, but we occasionally chat. And as you say, you've got a kid together. Yeah. But it feels like you have these sort of peaks and troughs in your life, don't you? Where there was, I feel like you've had to start again a lot. And starting again is my middle name. It is Shirley Start Again Ballas. So, and I don't have a fear of starting again, you know. And I think that after my engagement to Nigel, married to Sammy, married to Corky and then had two long-term relationships with two different people, of which I'm still friendly with one of them.

I thought that was it for me, you know. I thought this is it now. I'm going to be on my own. On the shelf, I just keep working hard. Maybe my life is dedicating it to other people and so on and so forth. And then I met Danny from Liverpool, who would have ever thought. So let's see, I was engaged with a Yorkshireman, married to a Mancunian, married to a Texan, dated an Italian for six years, dated a Russian for six years.

Now I'm with a Liverpoolian. I've come right back to the square one. You're like football. I've been around the block, darling. Shirley, you're like football. You've come home. I've come home. I've come home.

He's a handsome cat, isn't he? He's a bit of all right, isn't he, Danny? Very sweet heart. Well, he seems really kind. He seems really kind, which I like as well. Yeah, he is. Always befriend them first, I say. Well, I took care of him with his honey and his lemon drinks.

because I felt sorry for him, but then shortly into that, you know, run and they took me out with a group of people, and then I noticed one day the light was shining right across those big blue eyes and that jet black hair. And I'd always wanted a boyfriend that was six foot. I'd always had, you know, Nigel was about 5'8. Sammy was 5'6. Corky was 5'4.6.

Ricardo was about 5'4.5. Yeager was, I don't know, 5'10 or something like that. Yeah, Yeager. I love Yeager. You deserve height? He's sweet. Hight. That's what I got with Danny. Six foot one. Oh, lovely. A beautiful heart, I feel.

We did the lockdown together, but now it's getting back to normal, and he's got a son as well, so I don't see him very often, but, you know, we talk every day, and seems like it's going in the right direction. And I want to talk about your brother as well, because I was really moved. Oh, my hero. hero. Oh Shirley, I'm so sorry your brother died. I just wonder now he'd have been here and he

could see how well his daughter's done with their job at the NHS and fixing to get her own place to live and an independent woman, you know, despite losing her dad to suicide and her mother to alcoholism, and most of her mother's side of the family too to the same disease, has turned out to be. She's so fabulous and so she's inspiring even for me. I look at her. I look at her so she never complained. And she has Crohn's disease, so she just gets on with it. So she's got that gene of, I'm just going to get on with it, I will not complain. She has this expression.

She goes, happy days. You're all right, you okay, Auntie Shirley? Yep, well, happy days. And close relationship with my mother. Yeah, she's wonderful. And he'd suffered from mental health issues for a long time, hadn't he? Well, I wasn't so aware of that for the length of time, But I did the last six weeks new.

The last six weeks and one or two little stories I've been told before. But I was busy travelling, raising children. And my mother was really dealing with that. And as I said, she wasn't an over-communicator, my mother. So nothing was ever a drama. Had she made it a bit more of a drama, I think I would have stopped in my tracks and paid a bit more attention. But we were inexperienced.

We didn't know anything about mental health. We do now, though. And something nice came out of that. I'm able to help and use the strictly as a platform for men's mental health calm, campaigning against living miserably. And I'm really proud at the Alder Hay Hospital now. Last year we had this vision to build this little unit inside the hospital grounds for children age 2 to 15, I think.

It's a mental health unit and I went to visit it and it's already up and in another year it'll be running. There's beds in there for children and there's an outpatient. And so I'm truly grateful that, you know, able to do that and raise funds and be there for not just, you know, for everybody with mental health. And when you lose, I lost her sister and my sister died, a similar age actually to your brother. And I certainly feel it's really when you lose a sibling,

it's kind of a weird thing, isn't it? Because I felt I had to sort of slightly take over and sort of, be in control for my mom and do all that. Did you, did you experience that a bit as well? I definitely had to be there for my mother. That was for sure. You know, it was just a haze, I think. Yeah. And my get on with it kind of personality just kind of took over. And it was such a shock. It was such a dreadful, dreadful part of my life, you know, and a part of worse for my, well, bad for both of us, but my mother, you know, losing a child is, Losing a brother is just devastating, but to see my mother go through what she went through was horrendous. Yeah.

So I can have a tinkle. You know, he was buried in the north and when I moved to America, I dug him up and took him with me in an urn. And then he came back from America and he sits right there by the fireplace with all his beautiful photographs. So yeah, he's there all the time. Oh, he'd be really proud of you, Shirley. Don't you think? As a young girl, he pushed me to stay off the housing estate and not getting trouble and you will be a dancer and I feel it and he was so encouraging. Never a jealous bone in his body.

You know, proud, totally proud. I felt. Come on, Charlie. Come on, Raymond. And we need to talk about when you were offered strictly because it was, that was quite a call, isn't it? But it wasn't really, you didn't suddenly? get the call you just found out didn't you that you knew Len Goodman was leaving well my son had told me because you know we'd known Len all our life I was being bullied in my own industry at

the time and men at the top stopping my work I had this little job in Bulgaria I'll never forget it I was booked I wanted to see a couple I've been training retire so I agreed to go the next thing I know I got called to say you know that World Dance Council have said that you are on fit material to judge this event. And so that I got fired from that job and it was, I had already had a lot of work taken off me with bullying one thing and another. And my son said, why don't you go for this other job on TV? I said, because I'm 57 and I have no TV experience. He said, yes, mother, but you know, we'll go this way. You know, you know, you know how to do it, mother, you are experienced. Anyway, cut a long story short, I secured an interview, which I failed miserably

on. And I had a second interview and I passed with flying colours. And then I got the call. I was in the United States teaching. They called. My son had really given me a shove to go and get that job though. Were you really nervous though? Yeah, because I had to sit next to Craig Reveld. I have to go and tinkle. Oh, I'm going to wait for you while you tinkle. Charlie! I'm following you. Come on. So go on. So we were talking about strictly. Oh, and then I went for the job and the first interview, Craig Revel Horwood was sat next to me and I remember, you know, they put these couples up and you had to critique them. I couldn't get two words out in a sentence and I'd done it all my life.

Was it just nerves? I was just nerves. I was just nerves. I'd flown in. I had jet lag. I had a bad back. It was freezing cold. The studio was freezing cold.

It was unfamiliar surroundings. But somehow the next day I came back to the interview and I, I was. You know, I managed to do well, you know, so... Quite an intimidating, when I think back as well, you know, this whole big shoes to fill, especially being a woman, because it is tougher anyway. I never tried to fill his shoes, though. I just put my slippers right next to his shoes

because you can't fill somebody as iconic as Len Goodman's shoes, so I never tried. I could only ever be who I was, and of course I had help and direct. from my son because he's in the TV industry, music industry. So what did he say to you? He was just saying that you have to be really authentic, you have to be who you are, you have to let your walls down,

people need to see you for the person that you are. And if you try to put anything fake on, audiences will see right through it. So I got a lot of direction from him at the beginning, because I didn't have a manager and I didn't have a publicist at the time, so I relied on Mark for a lot of advice. He was the one who dressed me at the beginning, you know, in the kind of devil loves Prada type of clothing and the way to stand for that first interview. And then we did some interviews at the beginning together and I never forget it in the United States.

They did a cover or something and I think it was hello actually. And they came in. This is one she wear this evening dress. He goes, no, you went in my closet and he bought out these like leather pants and this leather jacket. And he wore these ripped jeans and we're laughing because the man was not happy photographing. And he's whispering in me, and they caught this most fabulous shot. Anyway, that shot made the paper. So, you know, you might be close to 60, but you're not dead.

Let's get you're rocking. Oh, you look fantastic. I do find it really inspiring, actually. Like, when I look at you and you look amazing. But it's not about how just you look. It's about an energy and it's about living, you know, and it's about feeling. I think the industry I'm in, though, my own industry, not the strictly world, but my own industry keeps everybody young.

I mean, we've got my first teacher, George Code. He's in his 90s, and he's still on the committees. He's still getting on the train. He's at the British Dance Championships with his wife, Pat. You know, and you look at him, and he doesn't look a day over 60. He's fantastic. Always in the three-piece suit, dapper. We've always got something to look forward to in my industry.

The British Dance Championships in May, the International at the Royal Albert Hall in October. We have the United Kingdom Championships at the Big Centre in January. the three biggest championships in the world we host here in this country. So you're working towards these championships. It's going to be an evening of glitz and glamour. And then we've got the other side, which is strictly, which is more general public, which I love as well.

Which I'm loving at the moment. And I'm, I mean, everyone has their favourite. You're not allowed to say yours. I'm allowed to say mine. You can say your favour. And it is, John. I like, is it, Johanna. Oh my goodness, yeah.

I mean that Pirates of the Caribbean were all recovering. You're recovering. I had to sit there and watch it and I was absolutely just, well, a good word would be gobsmacked. You know, I was not expecting that. The thing with Johannes is he takes his job seriously, but he doesn't take himself too seriously. So with that in mind, he's able to produce something that's classy, respectful. beautiful, iconic, with the right principles. He brings a wealth of experience and John is just a great student

because he's never danced before John apparently. To my knowledge. He's incredible. And I just think, I mean, but Johannes isn't the only one. We've got, you know, if you take Sarah, for example, who would have thought she'd have been at the bottom of the leaderboard. And then I thought it was a one-off wonder and she came back with that samba, all dressed in green who would have thought she would have produced that. Tilly, little nervous this week that the week before she...

The Charleston. She was... Now as we move forward into week four, you see, this is... Maybe away from that tractor, Shirley. This is where you'll see... He's fine. He's fine. We will see now who's got the strength of mind.

At the beginning, it's all... Ooh, it starts and it's light, but then comes the strength of the brain. Because in my industry, it's a little bit of talent. You need a good brain. You need to know how to operate. You need to be able to learn. You need to be able to understand. And it'll be the same on strictly.

Yes. you need a little coordination and footwork you do but can you sustain the nerves you know so that's the key at the end of the day Charlie come here babe I know why he's trying to chase the van because Carlton brings him sweets and treats and that's Carlton on that van and he knows it so he's not chasing who's Carlton is a gentleman that clears cleans the park come on Ray that's how you doing Raymond how you doing sweetie are you doing doing all right? Are you hanging in there, babe? Are you? Look at that. Look at that lovely fur.

And that's so interesting, Shirley, because that really sounds like... The tennis players are athletes. It's a similar mindset, isn't it? It's everything. Who can go in for an interview? Who doesn't buckle under pressure? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's not just dancing. It's in the office. It's getting a job. It's life. You can be talented. You can have two really very talented people going for a job in the bank. It might not be the most qualified who always gets it. It might be the person who's qualified but has a great personality and who can deliver a message. Now we're going to see who really comes through with the strength of mind. Can they deal with the pressure? Are they able to

learn two dances when we get down to two dances a week? You know, how are they going to get on as all some of these competitors now leave and it becomes a lot less? You know, how are they going to cope? It's not just the cha-cha-cha-cha, the B-Nese waltz. or the couple's choice, it's not just that. Do you know, I like that as a life motto, Shirley. It's not just the cha-cha-cha. It's correct. It's true.

It's not. Stay here, please, Charlie. Charlie, oh, there's Colton on his track, on his lawnmower. Shirley's friend. Are you, are people really nice to you, Shirley, when you're out and about? Because you must get recognised a lot more now. So if we take two worlds,

We have the Strickley world and then I have my own industry world. In the Strickley world, it's just lovely. The general public on a whole, except for some trolls, but generally it's marvellous. I've had at the most brilliant time over the last four years. And in my own industry, there is still so many politics, there's a lot of hate, which is very, very sad. And still bullying goes on and manipulation and some men at the top

who just revel in the pain. that they watch other people suffer and it's just so sad sad well do you is there resentment towards people that get those gigs like you guys have got those high-profile TV gigs even just talking about me and without mentioning names yeah it's many people in the industry that are at the hands of other people that manage to influence other people you know it's I love it though you know it's difficult industry but I love it I continue to teach I lecture I travel I do things in different schools and, you know, I'll do a tour next year of the United States.

I love it. I love what I do. I'm just, think that my own industry is in a sorry state at the moment. And just because of a handful of people. Are you a cryer, Shirley? Do you cry a lot? No. Sometimes I wish I did, you know. Well, that's a spectacular chair, if ever I saw one. I know, right? Unbelievable. It's great for cycling like here.

Well done. Well done. That's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. What was your question? I'm not a crier. Sometimes I wish I could be a crier, but I'm not a crier. Really, why do you think that is?

And I bottled things in, you know, and sometimes I'll have a tear when I'm on my own, but I'm not outwardly a complainer or a crier or a... But I'm definitely on an observer. I observe what goes on in my industry and behaviours. Do you think maybe you learnt to be, that was that sort of toughness and resilience when you're a kid, you know, that comes from there, that? Probably, and my mother has a philosophy of life is short, look at me Shirley, I'm already 84 years old, don't sweat the small stuff, just get on with it. Try to enjoy your life a little bit more, you know, and stop worrying about things because things will be what they're going to be. Yeah, that's good, isn't it? That's a good philosophy.

So if I can help people and if I can put some kindness about that's what I would choose to do I certainly wouldn't want to choose what some of the men and women in my industry do and that is sit and revel in the misery of other people. It's disgusting. You can tell them on one with that.

We've just had some things happening in our industry that are really, really below the belt and to watch other people just loving it, you know, and relishing in it. it just a, oh, makes me want to bough. Well, in that sort of, yeah, it's really, it's unpleasant that, isn't it, watching that when people are, so much hatey, you know. Yeah.

I think when you're mean to somebody else, to be careful, because it'll come back to bite you in your ass, maybe not you. It could be your kids. It could be something else. Could be something else. You know, I think this world needs more kindness and love. Did you find us? In our industry, there's one rule for one set of people and another rule for another set of

people it's not fair the industry is not fair as a whole there are different rules for different people yeah which is now even infiltrated into some of our biggest championships in the world you know it just sometimes I feel it's a bit mafayosa run you know and people can be bought I'm going to say that and stick my neck out you know so that's well money money money money you don't you seem like you have a lot of intakes me I try. I haven't always got things right in my life. I wouldn't say I'm perfect but I like to stand up for the underdog and I hate to watch people suffer. I've never liked, even though there's been people really close to me who relish when I've suffered. Are there? You know,

oh yeah, and caused me pain and I just look at them and I feel sorry for them because I look at their life and I look at mine and they're miserable. I'm not. I's really, I like the way you say I'm not. You know why? I hear the real scouser. All right, they love. I'm not. I love it. Did you, and also you've had to deal with, I won't go into details, but you've had to deal with things appearing about you in the paper and stuff,

which is really tough, Shirley. And I've always thought, it's so, do you think, take the high ground, just leave it? Yeah, I had some advice at the beginning. Yeah. I did my very first interview was for Dan Wotton in the Sun newspaper, which was marvellous interview and I remembered Dan I didn't know anything

and I remember Dan at the time who was a huge fan of Strictly he loved Strickley Show and he told me just be honest, just be straight just be who you are and I think I took that advice and I thought yeah that works

it's the same in anything you do try to be that the person that you are like my son said if it's fake people will see through fake you know so do you fight when you go to parties and family functions and things like then events,

do you always think, is it a bit like a doctor everyone's saying, can you look at my arm or my leg? Does everyone say, oh, give us a dance, Shirley? They do. What do you say? I'm off duty today. I'm just going to enjoy watching you dance. And I do try to join in sometimes

if I've had a hot totty or two. But I'm not a general dancer kind of person because it's my industry, it's my work, you know. Yeah. It seems like you're really happy at the moment. Yeah, I'm excited. My mom's going to move in. I've got Panto coming up and I've a tour. You know, that's coming up after Christmas. And of course, my book got picked up for Broadway. And, you know, there's so many little exciting things going on. And it takes about five years to get a book on Broadway. And right now they're interested in mine and we're on about level three, I think. We've had meetings already with some attorneys. They see if they can make it work and what the budgets are. And they seem to think there's a story there and a show. show there. Look at this wild one.

So, we'll see. I think you're fabulous, Shirley Ballast, but there's one thing I can't forgive you for. And that's that you've got to dance with Tom Cruise, and I'll never get over that. Tom Cruise, Donnie Osmond, I gave him some lessons. I think I just adored him. I'm still friends with Donnie, actually, to this day.

He seemed nice. A few nice people, and of course, one could never forget that rumba that I did with on Jonathan, was it, Graham Norton? Or Jonathan Ross, which I was there. Will Ferrell. Yeah, it was Will Ferrell. And that was an iconic rumber that I will never forget.

Well, I love this part, Dulwich. And I love Charlie. Charlie's a cutie, isn't he? Look at his, watch his waddle now. Watch that bum. See? You know, and I got him as a rescue. Watch that left leg.

It's a bit wooden because he had a broken hip and everything. And then he'll go see if the dog he wants to say hello to him. Oh, there you go. Hello, he says. They keep you really calm dogs, don't they? Yeah. Don't you think they make you happy? Yeah, sure. Oh, Shirley, I've really enjoyed our walk today. What are you going off to to do now?

Well, now I have some people coming to the house for various different things that I need gates fixing. So you've got a domestic day today? I have a domestic day and some teaching later on. Oh, so you still teach, don't you? Yeah, I teach online. I go in the studio. I'm always busy with that. So I keep my own industry because you never know when this job might one day be moved on, as they say. And you're doing Strictly, I'm so excited about Strictly. I mean, I've picked my favourite. You're not allowed to pick yours, but...

I just think they're all doing so marvellously well. And who would have thought it would been such an iconic group of celebrities? I mean each one and every week it's hard it was so hard to send anybody home but just say to the listeners you know you've got to vote because it does not matter who I send home it will be somebody's favourite so that's the thing that's the thing that's tough and if you love them you must vote I'm calling right now for your hands yes because if they go in the bottom two and I had to send them home and you haven't voted then you'll have a go at me I didn't just have a go at you but you didn't pick your phone up and vote you've got to vote Shirley Ballas is having a go at me. I do vote. I vote every week. Please, listeners vote. Help me. I'm asking for your help. Now, can you say goodbye to Ray, please?

Well, goodbye, Ray. I'm sure you're absolutely exhausted. Are you exhausted? Are you, your little legs? Oh, look at you. Shirley, my legs aren't that little. Oh, well, let's see. Let's see. Yes, you could do the cha-cha-cha there. Little rumba going on here on the back legs. Love it.

Did you say goodbye, Charlie? Did you enjoy your walk today, sir? Goes on a lead now, Raymond. Does Charlie? There you go. Goodbye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.