Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Sir Ed Davey (Part One)

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

This week Emily and Ray take a (slightly blustery) stroll with a very special guest: Sir Ed Davey, leader of the Liberal Democrats.What starts as a walk with a politician quickly becomes something much more personal, as Ed opens up about the experiences that have shaped his life. He talks candidly about losing his father to cancer when he was just four years old, helping to care for his mother through her own illness before losing her as a teenager, and how those experiences led to a lifelong passion for supporting carers.Emily and Ed also chat about his time at Oxford, the surprising moment MI6 tried to recruit him as a spy, and life today with his wife Emily and their son John, who has severe disabilities. These themes are explored in his book Why I Care: And Why Care Matters, which is now available in paperback.Away from Westminster, Emily discovers a very different side to Ed, including his love of ABBA and Adele, and a willingness to let her scroll through his playlist.It’s a thoughtful, moving and surprisingly relaxed conversation that offers a rare glimpse behind the public image of one of Britain’s leading politicians. And yes, Ray managed to secure a cuddle from Sir Ed, which he has since described as a major diplomatic victory.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

These two girls dressed in their pyjamas, women, going down the corridor saying, I want to say to the other, oh, duffers, I've got shampas all over my gym jams. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a stroll with a very special guest, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Ed Davy. I know, I can't believe it either. Picking up Ray's poo with Sir Ed Davy watching over me definitely wasn't on my 2026 bingo card, but I was delighted he agreed to join us for a walk. And frankly, having a close protection officer following behind us

just confirmed Ray's belief that he is literally the most important dog in the world. But security aside, what was interesting to me was how relaxed the whole thing was. I mean, I'd envisaged an entourage of kind of scary Westminster men in suits saying, look, can we keep the Shih Tzu on message? But Ed and I ended up strolling around for a couple of hours, having a really in-depth proper chat about pretty much everything. We talked about his childhood growing up in Nottinghamshire, losing his father to cancer when he was just four years old, and how after his mother was diagnosed with cancer, he then spent much of his early teens helping to care for her before finally losing her when he was 15.

We also chatted about Ed's time at Oxford University and how MI6 tried to recruit him as a spy. But he decided espionage sounded far too stressful, so opted for the famously relaxing world of politics instead. Ed also told me about why support for carers has become one of the defining themes of his life, from helping to care for his mother to now caring for his son John, who has severe disabilities, and navigating that with his wife Emily following her diagnosis of MS. It's something he explores in his book, Why I Care and Why Care Matters, which gives you a lot of insight into Ed and why he's so passionate about advocating for carers. And if you want to give it a read, it's now out in paperback.

Ray and I genuinely had the loveliest time with Ed. I found him surprisingly open and unscripted for a politician. At one point, he even let me grab his phone to look at his playlist. And by the way, there was both Abba and Adele on there. And I was also incredibly moved by what he's been through in his life. and how that's gone on to shape so much of his politics. He also insisted on giving Rare a cuddle. Fortunately, the close protection officer didn't view Rare as a potential threat.

So come the next election, Ed, I think we can safely say you've got the full support of London's smallest ever Shih Tzu. Really hope you enjoy our walk with Sir Ed. Give it a listen now. Let's go into the park, Ed. Now, people always say, because Raymond, you are with a Sir. Yeah. I don't feel you're someone that I would feel the need to call, sir. Well, don't.

I mean, I'm really proud of it. I mean, cool, Sam. It was a huge honour, but I wear it lightly. And, you know, it was nice because it was given over things I've done. Climate change, which I'm really passionate about. By the way, I'm a big royalist. I love the Royalist. It's one of those things that I don't stand on ceremony.

I'm quite a sort of danceworth sort of person. Yeah. Yeah, it's a light touch. So, Ed, please. I know, but how nice to be a sir? Yeah, it's lovely. It is lovely. Do you ever get mail address to Sir Ed Dave? I do. I do. Oh, I'd be so proud. I'd be boasting showing that to the neighbours.

Well, what's funny is my wife is formerly Lady, Lady Emily, Lady Emily, Lady Emily, so I tease her a little bit. Ed, I am so thrilled you've agreed to come on this podcast. Thank you for my name. And I've already revealed, prior to this podcast to you, that I might be coming over to your side. Oh, fantastic. Yeah. I'll sign you up.

And you've met Raymond already. Yeah. And I could tell you have quite an affection for dogs, don't you? Yeah, well, I love how all animals, if I'm honest with you. Look, there's some geese head. And baby geese. Yeah. All their babies.

Look at that. Hello. Yeah, okay. They're not happy with us. I'm just going to put Raymond's lead on. Yeah, I know there's mummies and their babies. They're not happy. Yeah, they can attack.

The thing about geese is they've got a bit of a... They can turn on you. Oh, they can turn on you. Yeah, but we're not going to trouble them today. No, they can get a bit, uh, Nigel Farage on you. But I do love animals. I was brought up with animals. Oh were you at? Yeah, a dog and a cat and a hamster.

Was this hammie the hamster? I think it was Hammy the hamster. Yeah, very original. My kids have had gerbils and now we've got a cat's lovely kitten called Copeland who wakes me up at 4 o'clock in the morning. It's just the downside but he is adorable. And so the dogs you had when you were growing up, you had, did you have a dog early in life?

Yeah, I think my dad was bought some dogs, but they were quite, quite vicious dogs, but I can't remember them. And so they ended up going out and buying a mongrel dog, who was much more child-friendly. Yeah. We called him Prince. He was a cross between a Labrador and a terrier. And we just had a lot of fun with him,

I'm obviously walking him. And you go, I don't know if this is the same with Raymond, but we go walkies, walk his, chocky, chocky biscuit. And he said walkies, he'd go mad, he'd run around because he thought, I'm after a walk, I'm therefore walk. And then obviously chock chock chisel, and he loved my granddad. So what we'd be said, walk his, walkies, choky choky chocker bissets, granddad, granddad, and then we'd say squirrel.

He hated squirrels, he'd barked squirrels, and motorbike. So we'd wind this lovely dog. up, he'd be running up and down. Exposure therapy. His worst fears, Raymond's worst fears are wheelie bins and me dancing. Oh right. So you don't have a dog currently though, but you have a cat. Yeah, I love a dog, but two things. A, my lifestyle's not really great.

Of course. And second, my son, who's quite disabled, John, he's got a phobia about dogs, unfortunately. But, you know, he'll, he'll love him. like that he goes horse riding right and he sees cows and sheep and he's quite happy with those but for reasons why we go into I think he's got a faux-billed dogs it's a shame but we haven't been able to train him out of it which I've tried I think Raymond might be the key I think you do what honestly Ed because he's I've had a lot of friends of mine whose kids are a bit wary of dogs and as soon as they see Raymond because he doesn't bark he's never

barred I trained him not to and I didn't train him not to I just got lucky but he's got a very gentle yeah disposition he's got more of a cat-like energy well John loves cats and our cocoa he adores and actually it was a long story about why we ended up with a kitten my daughter was on a campaign for kittens is Ellie yeah Emily loves cats but was on a main road and was worried about having us a splosh cat and so I... Slosh cat? Well you know she lost one of her cats.

In fact when we married I had two cats and she had two cats. She did you hear it? And any one of her cats got splashed and it was quite traumatic and because we live on this big busy road she didn't want that a repetition. However, I researched indoor cats in some detail and I bought my daughter Ellie to part of her campaign two books and indoor cats so she could persuade her mother

and we had a year-long campaign and first of all John reaction to cats was one of the things that got my wife over the line because she knew it would be good therapy for John. Yeah. And the indoor cat bit helped and then I'd said to Ellie, because Emily was worried about who was going to sort out the litter tray and feed it and all the rest of it. What's it going to be you, Ed? I bet it wasn't. Well, we wanted it to be our daughter, right, to make a response for it. And so I said, look, it's going to have to be a contract where you're going to have to commit to clearing it up and so on. And the next thing I know, she's at my wife's computer writing out a contract. She's only 11.

And she got, you know, italicized fonts, make it look like a legal document. And it was gorgeous. So I literally couldn't give in immediately. So I said, well, I'm going to have to say it to my brother, who's a lawyer, to see. if he thinks this is going to work as a contract. Sorry, you gave the contract to your brother who's a lawyer. It was teasing my daughter. That was a great fun.

And we've never had to be signed this contract about how she would. It's called the kitten contract and how she will look after the kitten. The truth is she breaches the contract quite a lot and there's no sanction. So it's not the most effective legal document. Although on a serious note, I do think that's quite, good thing to do with kids because I think it is about responsibility over another living thing isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, we wanted her to take it seriously. Yeah. And she does and she's really good with a kitten. Do you ever find yourself lapsing into political speak with your kids?

Do you ever say to them, tidy your room, no, look, let me be clear. Well, with John, that would be a complete waste of time, bless him, because I think you wouldn't want to know on earth I was talking about. And we talk, my language with John because he can't communicate terribly well. Yeah. It's more about daddy bear and naughty parrot and things like that. So I think politics would get a bit lost in that one. Elliot, I think so. I mean, I mean, we just come back, we've been to the Harry Potter world.

Oh, did you enjoy it? Oh! She said everyone's going to be dressed up. So you've got to dress up, Daddy. So I got a Harry Potter outfit, glasses, everything. I was the only adult dressed up in this whole place. Of course you were, Ed, because no one else would do that. So she was Hermione, I was Harry, and we had an absolute ball.

Four four hours. I'm sorry, I would have paid so much money to have seen Sir Ed Davy, dressed as Harry Potter. The good thing is only anyone recognise me. It's great, I was incognito. It's almost as if they thought, Sir Ed Davy would never do that. So I want to go back to your child for the bit.

I read your wonderful book, Why I Care and Why Care Matters. And I've really loved it, Ed. Thank you. Partly because I think there was a lot that resonated with me, having lost my family. Yeah, yeah. And, but I also felt, I got to know so much more about you

and I was sort of telling people about this friends of mine and I told them your story and they said oh my God I had no idea and it feels like it's quite a recent decision you've taken I suppose to speak out a bit more about your own experiences isn't it why did you decide to do that well to be honest before I became the leader

I was quietly in the background doing a few campaigns so a lot of work on childhood bereavement, having lost both my parents as a child. But it was only when I became leader that I started being asked questions about who I was in my background. And so I sat down with Emily and I said, look, you know, this is going to impinge on as more than I had expected, how we're going to deal with it? And so we agreed sort of the red lines, but we wouldn't talk about it. And so I started the odd interview. And then what was really significant in the journey was the response of the public. So people started writing in saying, thank you for talking about that.

Particularly about my son, John, his disabilities, but also about my losing my parents. And being a carer, actually, that was a key thing, being a carer. Because I was a care for my mum, care for my grand, care for my son. And they said, no one's talked about it before in the way you have. I'm sure they had, but people hadn't heard that. And that just encourages and said, well, we probably need to speak out more about it. And so it was a sort of almost a dialogue with people out there encouraging us to talk about it. And I have to say it wasn't, initially it was not easy.

Did it feel a bit exposing initially? Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, there was the film we made during the election, our party election broadcast, where I talked to up my son. Like everything, we shot 20 hours and it was like two and a half minutes. So I got to talk a lot about my childhood and John and began to get more comfortable and partly because I could see it mattered to other people. I almost felt, I didn't be sanctimimus about it. I felt an obligation to talk about it. And the more I realized the issues that around care and carers, the more I thought it was actually quite important in our country's life in our society.

And it's sort of overlooked and is never in the political debate. So, yeah, I feel comfortable about talking about it now. I've got it across the Rubicon, you know? Yeah. I can see that it is exposing and you get to that. Once you do it, though, and when you realize it's helpful to people, I think that's what changes it. You know, I remember I wrote a book about loss, about losing my seat. and my parents and I remember a writer friend saying to me, I said I feel so vulnerable

and exposed this going out into the world. And this writer friend said, you know that bit that you're most frightened about sharing, that's the bit that someone will contact you about. And so that really was life-changing to me to read that and that is exactly what happened. So I think it's a lesson, isn't it? It is. I mean it's if you're up for it and I'm very privileged to have this platform as a politician a leader of a party and therefore you have an ability to reach a wider audience and if you can help people even just from what you're saying well why not why not and uh i mean the writing the book was another sort of rebecon really because although um i i remember part of it i had to cast my mind

back you know so i'm 60 now i know i don't look it but i'm 60 you do look quite good at well thank you that's very kind i was fishing for confidence And you were. But, you know, my mum, dad died when I was four, mum died when I was 15, so it's a long, long time ago. And I haven't spent the interim period thinking about it. And your memories of your dad, it seems to me that the kind of memories you have of a parent, when you lose them, he died when you were four.

Yeah. And it's almost like, you know, when you pull up your phone and it gives you memories of a year, and they're like these fleeting snapshots. Yeah. I wonder if that's sort of how you remember him, just visual pictures of him maybe. Well, there's obviously the photographs, but in terms of my interaction with him, there are two moments that I think are real. Ed, I'm so sorry, this is a very moving part of the interview, and guess what Raymond's doing?

I'm so embarrassed of you, Raymond. We've got Sir Ed Davy and you are, oh my God, and it's massive as well. Ed, look away. Ed, I'm so sorry. down to earth, doesn't it? A man of your calibre should not be seeing this. I'm so ashamed. Despite the contract with my daughter, guess who ends up doing the litter tray for the cat? So, uh, that's fun. Do you want to hear that everyone? So Red Davey does the litter tray, okay? This is who you want running the country. Right, I'm now in that awful position, Ed,

where I stink of poo. And I don't know what to do. I'm going to, I'm looking for a bin. A bin, a dog poo. been. I'm going to hold it. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. Because Raymond, why is it so big? Is that a bit over there? Oh yeah, let's go there, Ed. I feel really relaxed with you, Ed. You're very sort of easy to talk to you. You're not like most, I've imagined you to be, to be honest. Well, that's kind of, yeah. I think one thing I've really valued is my work with my constituents, right? So people in the area I represent, Kingston's servants, I was London. And the nicest thing

say is that you're all very approachable and um yeah i would say that's true important i think it's very important to be approachable politics i don't think don't think don't be approachable do you well don't get me started here my god blimey i'll start ranting i don't want that on your no i love a rant ed let's go back to your childhood because you were telling me about your dad so there were two moments i recall one was when mum was driving the car and they comes to fetch me from nursery and dad was in the back with a very it was winter it's probably january he died in the march and he was in a thick coat and i i never sort of seen that before and it's all stopped them i can very much visualize him there um and he obviously wanted to be with me

as much as he could and his other sons um and then the other one was in our house henry and charles my brothers yeah and then there was another one where i was sitting on his knee but most of my memories really are from my mum. So my mum, who is a really amazing woman, she would talk about dad. We often sit on her bed and she tells stories. And that was her way, I think, of grieving and managing that, but also sharing with us who our dad was and what it was like.

So I guess most of my memories are in, from. mum. That's really lovely that she was the archivist, you know, of his memory. How lovely. And it was, this was in Nottinghamshire that you'd grown up and your dad sort of a self-starter really, wasn't he? Because he was from a mining family and then became a solicitor, which is a big leap. Yeah, he went to uni, his first person in his family to go to he had a uni, became a solicitor. So he was quite successful? Yeah, I mean, he was, I think.

He died me, it was 38, right? Oh. Which is horribly young, had three boys, and had built up two offices in Cochney Nashville and Sutton, Nashville. And mum used to say that he had this gift because he could speak, sort of more, not posh, exactly, but speak. sort of middle England, if you like, to the business people, but his real accent was quite, quite, you know, working class and you speak to the minors, so he could...

So he was adaptable? He was adaptable, yeah. So it's almost as if that's a family trait that you've inherited, because presumably that's something you need for politics, isn't it? Well, do you know what? I had always thought, when mum was live, that he was a conservative. because one of her memories was telling us about him was he'd go down to the concertary club to pay snooker. But many years later, after I'd become an MP,

I was sitting with my gran in a sheltered home looking through a photo album. And there was this newspaper cutting from the late 50s and it was of my dad. And he was the guest speaker at the Mansfield District Liberal Association. with his main thing was only the Liberals understand the NHS. And I can't tell you the impact that had on me,

because I thought he was a Tory, it turns out he was a Liberal, and I've had that confirmed by one of these people. Can we just say, thank God, because I'm already feeling a lot better about him. But I can't tell you what I meant to me. What do you know, it's like a... It's the moment in the Richard Curtis film. That feels like in your, in the movie of your life, your life, that's a big tear-jerk a moment. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. And I thought,

why no one ever told me, right? And mum had said that he had political aspirations, and it was into politics, and obviously he was, because he was speaking this, this garden party, whatever. But we hadn't really progressed around that. I thought mum was a sort of Ted Heath Torrey and I can remember discussing around the table I was discussing I was listening during the minor strike in 74 if people remember that and you know the three-day week and mum bought one of these gas primer stoves so we could still cook and then it fell over and burn the lino in the kitchen and it stayed birded forever because we could afford to fix it you know those memories of him and my mum

mum yeah they they need so much she's he's going again no Ed come on I thought you understood this as the litter tray monitor I have to put we have to be responsible definitely but I thought he was going again I mean oh Raymond stop it you're not going in there don't we're not putting you in that now I might have to carry him for a bit Ed because he's getting on a bit and I know you'll be this because you're very pro care and as an old man sometimes he needs to be looked after yeah definitely Raymond I think he's looking forward to it Raymond come here there we go you're gonna be oh you're up near Ed now you're

happy one thing that really moved me was a letter that your dad wrote you and your brother's letters before he died yeah and I'm not gonna lie I was in bits when I read what he wrote you I can't actually say it because it'll make me cry and I can't cry in front of the leader of the double Democrats. Do you remember what he said to you? Yeah, I mean, he just said be a really good boy and a clever boy for your mummy. He actually started off saying, I know you won't be able to read this because obviously that was four. And it's very short.

But he said, here in my kiss. your mommy will give them to you. Oh, don't. So, yeah. I'm so sorry. That's made me cry. But it's, you know, the only thing he obviously wrote to me.

I'm so sorry. I feel so stupid. I'm sure lots of people listening have those sorts of things in their life. I think for me it's because I think that's a very difficult thing for a parent. Because you know,

I know my sister, she lost, you know, she lost, you know, she lost similar circumstances to her dad. I think that's why it's made me emotional because she was 43, again, late diagnosis, only had like three months and then she was gone. And actually what really breaks my heart is that she, she had a one-year-old and a 10-year-old.

And I remember when she found out, she went, I can't, when they said you've got, you know, you're going to die and she went, but I can't. It's that sense of, not just for yourself, but for your kids, So I think that's why it makes me very emotional that story, because I wonder if... Well, I think people really fight when they're ill. I mean, clearly they couldn't do very much. It was late.

And in your case, Dad died after three months. But they tried spiritual healing. Yeah. And when mum became ill, come onto that, she fought it like anybody in order to be there for her boys. But I probably lived a year and a half longer than she was supposed to live because she was fighting. And I have a little insight into it because obviously, with my son John he will outlive me

by a long way and my wife and I obviously worried about who's going to look after him when we're not here and who's going to give him the love that you know we give him and and who's going to check on him and check on the carers

and all that sort of thing and it's my room 101 you know I and I think when a parent is saying goodbye to the children all those thoughts go to the head There was one instance, I think I wrote about this in the book, I'd been on a school trip to Germany, and we stopped in a car park with a coach car park, and we got out stretch our legs, and we saw these girls, the German girls who got out of their coach. Okay, Ed, look, I'm a fan of Emily's.

I don't want to know about this period in your life. She knows about it. Nothing happened. However, they're 13 or 14. We took a little photo. And when I got them developed, because they were not digital in those days, and I showed them to mum, She looked at this picture of me and this German girl I'd spoken to for five minutes. Yeah.

And she said, I wonder who you're going to end up with. Yeah. And obviously when I married Emily, she was there with me and I wish she'd been there. Yeah. But how lovely that with both your parents having that sense of, you know, kind of guardianship over you, watching over you. Totally. You know? Totally.

I mean, it may sound odd, but I still feel their love. I still feel that surrounded by the love. And through my dad's letter, through the very close relationship. Don't talk to me about that letter. I've already embarrassed myself. But you know what? I didn't feel embarrassed about crying in front of you. I would have in front of some people.

I know it doesn't happen not with Paxman and Peston when you're being interviewed by them. but I think we should get less ashamed of showing emotion. I agree, I agree. And I think politics becomes very sort of saccharine and very unreal to be. Yeah. Because so much about life is emotion. But laughter as well, by the way, it's not just all sad, lots of laughter.

You know, I'm all in favour of having a little right smile on your face when you're talking about politics. As long as you also know that there's a lot of people hurting us. there in many many ways. When you were caring for your mum, because your mum valiantly carried on obviously after she lost her dad and you know was as you've said it wasn't poverty you grew up. But there was she was a single mom so there were some she had to be thrifty and balanced the books. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah there's no way we were poor at all. No. I mean dad had provided for us. We always

went to private school so there's no way we were there was an issue about getting food on the table but nevertheless it was not a lot of money and i used to think you know go to mate's houses and they'd have fizzy drinks and crisps and we'd never allow that sort of stuff did you also get um you didn't have branded cola i won't mention the brands but no no we never have that not allow that stuff and i don't know whether that was her being tight or her being health conscious um but you know I was mentioning the three-day week when the lights went out. Yeah. Mum went and bought one of those kits, the K-Tel kit for giving yourself a haircut.

And the image of sitting in our kitchen, she cut in my hair with this K-Tel cheap kit. And I had a, I was not having it. Because she wasn't really that good at it. You're like, Mum, this is so embarrassing. I've got to go into school with this awful hair. But she was, and the only about, I don't know if I wrote about this in the book again, but if she'd found that there was something cheaper at the supermarket up the hill, she'd make me walk there and I'd say, why are they going all the way up this hill?

They're selling a cost cutter or whatever. They're selling coffee two p cheaper. So she was very thrifty. And when we got back from a shop, she'd make us put everything away and take the receipt. and mark it each off on the receipt. Really? Oh yeah, yeah. I think, you know, teaching us a value of money,

keeping us involved and everything. She was a teacher. That was what she was trained to do. Yeah. Training used to do those budgets. Yeah. From an early age. Well, I like those dogs.

I think they're called Bedlington Terriers. They look like little sheep. So your mum, you ended up, obviously, caring for your mum when she... She had a mastectomy, didn't she? It was breast cancer and then it metastasised and spread. And so you were in this position where you're, I mean, a really difficult thing to be told. But she told you and your brothers individually, which I kind of love that she... Yeah.

That took... That was not an easy conversation and she chose to do it three times. Yeah, I mean, there were two, those conversations, the first time when she had the mastectomy. Yeah. when I was nine and then she said it will be all right and she was very matter of fact and reassuring. And then as it metastasized and went to her bones, she had to tell us that, you know, she had another fight on her hands. Initially we, you know, we were optimistic because she'd beaten the breast cancer, why wouldn't she beat this form of cancer? And she should have tried everything. When the NHS said they couldn't do any more for her, she went to a naturopath,

and tried a whole range of things in sort of slightly gruesome really. It was one way and she was only able to eat on this special natural path diet apple juice and carrot juice. Right. And I was spent hours juicing up apples and carrots for and taking it to her and sitting on her bed and talking to her. And you had, you would administer her morphine as well wouldn't you? Yep. Well I pour it out so we had, I don't think they'd allowed these days had two big bell jars one of the morphine and one of the some syrup that you added to the morphine to make it drink of all and i would measure these out and take it to her she had injections and so you're going off to school are you doing this before morning in the evening

yeah really did you think did you feel that that made you i suppose kids internalize that kind of stuff it just becomes normal to you doesn't it but i wonder if you're taking on all these complex adult responsibilities if that gives you a slight sense of otherness? Oh yeah, I mean definitely at school. I mean I felt quite different and isolate a little bit not that the friends were you know bulimia or anything but I felt different and I didn't feel able to talk about it and I don't know really if my friends knew what was going on how could they really yeah so yeah it was a little bit isolating and you try to find ways to escape a bit and so you know sport

But the point was I wanted to be with my mum, right? I didn't want to walk away. I didn't want to spend time with her. And she bought this remote control colour TV. And this was like amazing. So first of all, she was spending money. And they had a remote control. And that was like, oh my word, this is magical.

And I'd lie on her bed next to her. And we'd watch rubbish TV together. It's great. And then. And then when you lost her, how old were you when she died? 15. You were 15. And it was just like any other day, I suppose.

She's in hospital at this point having palliative care. Yeah, she was, so she spent the last two weeks of a life in Notting General Hospital, in a Victorian ward, not really suitable. It was a geriatric ward really. It wasn't meant for end-of-life care. But I go and see her every morning on the way to school. And June the 3rd, 1981, I was by a bedside. And she was, you know, wasn't able to speak

because she had an awful lot of morphine to deal with the pain. Because by this time, she wasn't racked with pain. And her head went to the side and I called the nurse. The nurse took me out and then told me when I died. And it was in my school uniform. And then my, I think, presumably my brother's turned up. And then we did, made it.

made all the arrangements, but it was quite a moment in my life. And again, I don't know if other people have experienced this, in many ways, because mum had prepared me that she was going to die, there was a sense of relief as well. Right. So yes, I was, I cried, but mum's face that had been taught with pain was suddenly relaxed. Yeah. And, yeah, I know. I felt that with my soul's over.

sister that she'd been in such pain in those last couple of weeks you know and I actually felt it was weird I remember looking at her thinking this doesn't look like you but it feels like I feel happy that you're not in pain anymore I think that is very common I'm sure to feel that and so you're suddenly your grandma was amazing and she stepped in and help bring you up well and my brothers and your brothers. So I lived for a fair bit in the same house in Nottingham. So at that point with the three teenage boys, is the Davy household becoming quite a cool place to hang out? Well yeah, my eldest brother was at uni and year off and saw. My eldest, my middle brother Henry was in sick form and then have a year off and part of the time he and I lived together. And we had a few parties, fair to say. We were up a cul-de-sac. So we were up a cul-de-sac. So we, we were. weren't really overlooked.

The next door neighbours we had on one side were profoundly deaf. So it was a great place to have a party. He won the lottery at this point. Well, not with the loss, I should say. They're not having neighbours who can hear you properly as a result. Did you... I want to ask you another question, Ed, which is when you were a kid, what was the naughtiest thing you ever did?

And please don't say running through wheat fields. This will be over. The naughtiest thing that I ever did, Oh, I did a lot. I mean... Come on. Come on, Davy. I'm trying to be... Because I did a few things, which I probably... I couldn't get out there. I mean, there's the teenage smoking, right? Oh, yeah.

That wasn't terribly naughty, but... We all do it. And I remember smoking cigars, like age 50. Donald Trump? Yeah. And I wouldn't touch it now, but there you are. I thought I was a cool and an adult. I did, I'll try and give you an answer.

This is quite foolish really, but it shows. So, after them died, I still wanted to travel and do stuff. And I organised an interrail with three mates from school. And I had to go into their parents to persuade them to allow them to come on this mad interrail, but relatively young age. And I booked youth hostels, so the international youth hostels Federation and they organise it all my Thomas Cook timetable for Europe and we had a ball for a month had a fantastic time slept out on part benches you know

great time and one night in Paris had a little bit too much to drink and there's a place called Place La Concorde and Pondla Concorde over the same and I ran through ahead of my mates and I climbed over the balustrae And so you got the balustrade, got this little ledge and dropped down, and I crawled along this ledge. And there's a sort of towering around the towers for the bridge. And I crawled round the ledge round that tower, so they couldn't see me. And I thought it was very funny. They thought I had jumped in.

Oh my God. Why would you put them through that? It was naughty and silly, basically. It was stupid, very risky. And I remember going there many years later, look at it, and I thought, what was I doing? But I think yeah. Did they go mad at you when they found out you were fine? I think we were just relieved, yes, and wanting to get back home, what is something else stupid? So you ended up, sort of getting on with your schoolwork,

and I know there was a period when you were thinking, because it seems like you were quite diligent student, you were a head boy, weren't you? And you were thinking, what's the point? Mum's gone, you know. Yeah, I mean, my two brothers were also very studious and one going to Oxford, one going to Cambridge. So, you know, they set a bar quite high. God, you're the triple threat, you three. Yeah, I ended up. Do you think that comes from your parents? Why did you think you all did so well?

Well, I think we worked hard and, you know, we got lucky in the gene pool. That's what I mean. It definitely also comes from environment, I think. Yeah, I mean, we went to great school. Yeah. We're very lucky, some great teachers. For me, though, there was a point that I think you're alluding to where I, mum, gone and, you know, I think a lot of kids, they work hard to please their parents.

Yeah. And I had no one to do that for anymore. And I remember standing in the kitchen at our house and thinking in Otisian, and thinking, why am I going to do this? I might go, I've got to do all this work for my O levels. and I sort of took a decision when I'm doing it for myself now so you better buck up mate and sort yourself out and also I had to be competition with two brothers right I couldn't let let them do better than I did so I had to work hard to beat them as well in some sibling rivalry also helped so you're quite are you quite

competitive we were in those days with each other I mean you have to be you don't become leader no impolitic of course I'm I mean this to change the world I mean this to get into power I'm in this to win for my values and and the way I will see things I mean that's what politics about isn't it you want to be in it to wear yeah but I often think it's interesting with people who go into politics because you get quite a hard time and what I think is that you've had to do you know often you've had to work pretty hard you've gone to good university you've worked damn hard and And then presumably with those qualifications you could go on to work for a city firm, but you choose not to.

Well, I had a number of things I was thinking about doing. And this is when you were at Oxford. Yeah, so I was thinking about what I do before I graduated. And one of the things I wondered about working for John Lewis partnership, because I really like John Lewis. I love the fact that the employees have a say in a voice. So I went to their milk round and decided not to do it. I also was really keen on working in developing countries. Yeah.

Because my cousin Peter made a big impact on my life, Peter Lawton. Yeah. Worked for Mari Stopes and the World Health Organisation. Going to different countries and building primary healthcare centres working with local people. Mm-hmm. May need to help women with women's education and women's choices over their bodies and their future and their families. And I was quite inspired by him and also he championed the tiger. He had set of a tiger charity.

His belief was if he saved the tiger, we'd save the world environment. I was his thesis. I was really inspired by him and so I did think about, I applied for a grant from some government department to do an MSC in agricultural economics. So I could take my economic background and try and help less well off countries. Because you did PPE, didn't you?

at Jesus College. Yeah. And I ended up not getting a grant. So I ended up applying for loads of different jobs and ended up with the Liberal Democrats as their economics advisor. But prior to that, Ed, we're not skipping over this, so Ed Davy. You were approached by MI5. Yeah, I think it's MI6 actually.

I never understand the difference, Ed. What is it? MI6 is foreign. MI5 is domestic. So yeah, no, I applied to the civil service. And that's another story. but they sent this letter out of the blue saying there's some position civil services which aren't open to competition. And we'd like you to apply.

Were you thrilled? I'd have been so happy that I was chosen. I was excited, but I was a bit sort of nervous as well. I thought, what's this about? So I applied and you had to tell them that the inside leg measurement of your great aren't. So you could do their sort of background checks. And then I went to an interview. What was that like? Well, it was just me and this sort of guy, and it was a big, massive room.

And he spent the first hour asking about me, about my life, so I'd be like you're doing really. Don't compare me to there, and I'm much nicer. Yeah, well, they were quite nice, but you're much nicer, obviously. And then halfway through, there was a table in the middle. He said, now I want you to, before I say, go any further, you've got to sign the official sequence act. You're going to go and sign the official secret to us. And he said, you probably guess, yeah. Really? You probably guess this is for the Secret Service and he told me what you do, how you'd be trained to be a spy.

How you'd learn languages, all that sort of training. You could have been James Bond. Yeah, there's a joke about 007 Davie, but I mean, I don't labour that point. I probably would be a very bad spy. You don't labour any point. That's one of your worst words. I like the political reference. No, the thing was, I asked him questions and I said, look, who do I tell? Can I tell anybody?

He says, well, you can't, you can't. You can't. You can't. You can't tell anybody? I said, could I tell my girlfriend or my wife? And he said, well, possibly. You know, it's this whole life of secrecy, which I wasn't attracting me. And so, yes, it was that, you know, I like James Bond films and all that.

see that but you I realize it wasn't like that because what you would do like you'd be posted as a defence attache or trade attache to a embassy somewhere yeah and you'd be garnering information that wasn't the public domain to help foreign policy or to help our war against drugs or to deal with terrorists so it's a really very important thing the people who do it you know shoot the behind them but I just didn't feel it was for me and I'd begun to get the political bug because I started working for the Lib Dems yeah and Do you think also, Ed? I know this sounds weird, but do they look into your family history?

And do you think they're part of the fact that your parents weren't around? Do you know what I mean? Like they would have said, oh, he's an orphan, so less fewer ties. I know that sounds weird. Yeah, no, no. That's definitely gone through my head. That, yeah. And obviously, James Bond lost his parents as would be famous, you know.

And I wouldn't be surprised. All superheroes do. but he uh i think um i wouldn't be surprised it's one of their things yeah tick off their list because you you're then focused on them the service doing the job doing serving your country you're not worried about these other ties so i guess i guess that's that's part of their thing how fascinating well i lost all of my family with three years they missed a trick they should have come knocking on my door i'd have been perfect at it so you'd have been great you want to be posted. Moscow. Do you know my problem is I'm not very I'm not I don't think I

could do the keeping my mouth shut I would just blurt things out all the time I say oh no I shouldn't have said that should I you're going to kill me now. I really hope you love part one of this week's walking the dog if you want to hear the second part of our chat it'll be out on thursday so whatever you do don't miss it and remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week