Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Sir Ed Davey (Part Two)

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

In part two of Emily and Ray’s walk with Sir Ed Davey, the conversation turns to the state of modern politics, from the rise of populism to the challenges posed by figures like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage, and what Ed believes the future of British politics might look like.Away from the political arena, Emily also gets to know the man behind the headlines, discussing everything from his taste in music and comedy to the moments and influences that have shaped him away from Westminster.If you haven’t already, do catch up on part one. And if you'd like to learn more about Ed's story, his book Why I Care: And Why Care Matters is available now in paperback.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with Leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Ed Davy. If you want to know a bit more about Ed and what got him into politics, I also really recommend reading his book, Why I Care and Why Care Matters, which is out now in paperback. Really hope you enjoy part two of our walk and do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Ed and Ray Ray. So tell me after Oxford, and I get the sense at Oxford, obviously it was very different then, It's a slightly more inclusive place now.

Both those universities are. But back then, things were a little bit more shades of Bullington at certain colleges. Well, I deliberately didn't go to those colleges, right? So my... Hello, wardens. My brother ended up at Oriole College. Because that's quite traditional. Which is very, very traditional, very public-schooly.

I remember when we visited him, me and my other brother, so three of us in his little room. and we opened the door and my first recollection of other students at Oxford was these two girls dressed in their pyjamas women going down the corridor saying and one said to the other oh daffers I've got shampas all over my gym jams and apparently apparently they were going to some champagne breakfast party organised by two guys from harrow down the corridor so I thought this is not quite me but it was very very very very good funny. You know things like that you just never forget do you? And so I'm never going to forget that I might quote them. And you were Jesus which is a bit smaller more kind of warm out.

Charles had a friend at Jesus and when I visited him one day I went to see, went to visit her and I just liked the feel the corridor. It was completely from Oriel. It was well known for having a high proportion of state school students. Yeah. So it had a completely completely fulfilled and I loved it and I was very fortunate to get a place there and um and you when you left it feels like did you start you started working as a parliamentary researcher was that fairly soon afterwards no no not immediately well because you went to spain you had the gap year before that didn't well it was a gap year for went to uni then after uni because i hadn't got my grant to do this msc and i crawley economics i hadn't got anything to do so i spent the summer

with my girlfriend at the time we just did different jobs and travelled and things and then i went back to live with my nana she'd broken her leg um and i love the sound of that nana oh no she's now you're talk i can talk about my nana for yeah she sounds what an amazing old those really strong women of that generation you know that held everything together totally totally and she loved a fag she loved a fag she'll come back to her to her folk smoking yeah there's lots of stories around that But so I lived with her for this period. She'd broken a leg, so I was caring for her. I also got compensation for her from the council

because she's tripped on a broken paving stone. And while I was living with her that period, so it was September, October, after leaving uni in the June, I thought applying for lots of random jobs. Right. And I applied to be the parliamentary researcher for the social liberal Democrats, paid nothing and I wasn't a member of the party I actually a uni I hadn't been involved in party politics I'm involved in environmental movement I joined

an organisation called the student ecology group and my first bit of political spin was calling it green action and you were at you were contemporary of David Milibands is that right but I feel was there a sense that someone like him was a bit more kind of I've got my eye on the prize for the future, you know. Totally. I mean, I went to one Labour club meeting just to try it out and I think David was there and a guy called Stephen Twigg was there. Oh yeah. And they spoke and I thought, it's not for me and these guys seem to know what they were doing. And the truth is, one of the things I felt uncomfortable about Oxford was a lot of people who thought they were

going to be the next Lawrence Olivier in acting or the next, you know, Seamus Heaney poet or whatever. and they had very strong ideas that they were going to succeed. And I was thinking, I'm not sure what if I'm going to succeed. And so I sort of had a different experience. I didn't go to the Oxford Union. I didn't get involved in any of the political groups. I did a bit of environmental campaigning, essentially. Yeah.

I didn't join the Green Party, by the way. I thought about it and decided not to. I'll break it to Zach gently. However you like. Gently or not gently. and and so yeah so when I applied for this job I didn't expect I'd get an interview because I wasn't member of the party but they were probably quite desperate and they interviewed me and went to the whips office in House Commons interviewed by Alan Beath and

Jim Wallace and the Nancy Seer and I was shocked to get the job and started work as their economics advisor on the 3rd of January in 1989 was still was really good on dates aren't you your number of dates you've got have you got quite a good retention for big ones yeah I forget what I'm doing next week and yeah and I was really surprised to get it I still wasn't member of the party then I met Patti Ashdown oh I always loved him Paddy Ashdown is my political hero yeah that sort of anti-establishment gritty liberal But then I also love the military background because I remember watching him and people would be talking about, you know, if there was a conflict and he'd just come in so confidently and go, look, I've got a bit of experience with this.

But oh yes, I like you. So you've learnt a lot from him. Yeah, and it was a huge privilege to work for him, advising him on the economy and Alan Beath and in that period. Was it quite a baptism of fire though, Ed? Because I imagine he was a very impressive man, wasn't he? but I imagine he didn't suffer, not suffer fools, but you know, he had high standards and it's your first job, you know. He was wonderful in many ways, but he didn't always get it right. So on a Monday morning, I go into the office and normally, and this could happen a lot of times, the phone would ring and be paddy.

He said, oh, come on office. No, bark his orders like I was an infantry soldier and I go up and he'd read something in the Sunday papers. It's a mad cap idea, which was really not very liberal and a bit stupid. And he said, we should do this, we should do this, can we announce it this week. And I said, Paddy, so was a young guy, I was in my early twenties. I said, I don't think is that good an idea, actually. I spent time talking the great Patti Ashdam out of some economic initiative because it wasn't really... But having said that he was, he was great. And one of the reasons I wanted to work with him became a little Democrat,

became passionate was he was so liberal on the economy he believed in trade European Union free markets competition as well as being compassionate as well as caring about people less well off as well as he merged those two and sorry I'm getting too political now aren't I you can be political but he because I don't I actually don't think you can separate politics from life really you know and I and I think that's what I find interesting about your story is that it's inseparable what happened to you because I feel like that gave that was your purpose wasn't it

everything that you experienced is kind of what drove you into politics maybe without you even realising it I've got to be truthful there was chance and fortune and mistakes and luck and you know I mean I've got elected in 97 not supposed to I wasn't in target C I got elected by the huge majority of 56 votes after three recounts is it Kingston and Serbberton But for that, but for a few people who decided to go and vote for me at the last minute, I wouldn't probably be here. You must be quite confident. I always think when you're campaigning, that would be the most cringe thing to me is knocking on the door personally going, hi, vote for me. You're actually right because when you're knocking the door for someone else, that's okay.

But when you are saying vote for me, it's a very different conversation. Was it hard the first time you did that? Yeah, very much so. But you've got to every. You've got to talk to people. You want to enjoy people coming. I love canvassing, actually. Do you?

You have to as a Lib Dem. Love you, but you have to. Well, when you know, that is true, but knocking on doors and what's back. I'll tell you what the assignment is. You knock on this door. You don't know who's going to answer it. You don't know if it's going to be the person who you want to talk to. You want to find out who it is.

You don't know what state of mind they're in. What if it's someone with a leave means leave t-shirt and a doverman pincher? Well, you know, you embrace everybody. Don't embrace them. We love dogs. You try and find some common ground. Right. And if it's clear they're not really interested in you and don't like you and you move away quickly.

There's no point. If someone really doesn't believe in your values and is completely opposite, well that's fine. You respect them. Hopefully they respect you and you move on to find someone who does. But I think you have to be quite calm, don't you? You have to learn how to become. I'd be saying if I knocked on the door and said, vote for me and so you are disgusting in your party.

I said, how dare you talk to me like that? But you can't do that. So do you have to learn that? Are you naturally not a drama queen, I suppose? Yeah, I mean, there's no sort of, you get some teaching about how to canvas. Right. But your interaction with the public

is what comes from you as a person. Yeah. You've got to like people, right? I mean, I actually like conversations, talking to people. Even people who disagree with. It's fine, right? Yeah.

But the world would be a very boring place if you all agreed. Well, look, I know I'd actually like it. Would you? If I agreed with me. That's because of Raymond. Raymond just agrees with you, you see, the whole time. So you ended up after you got this fabulous job and you had a break, we should say, working in sort of consultancy. Yeah.

Management consultancy. And then you went back to politics. Was it 1997? Yeah, I got left to that. Yeah. And that must have been a great moment and a kind of seismic moment for you because it was the start of your life in politics. Well it's a picture of because my team basically tried to keep my feet on the ground and they put in my diary the Monday afterwards, Ed goes back to work, you know. And we had these posters in the election which started off quite bold and bright and gradually faded.

There's a long campaign 97, a lot of it was quite sunny. They faded and they'd say, Ed, your posters are full. fading just like your dreams. See, that would make me cry. I don't know how you. You must be quite tough, I think. Do you think you have to be quite, have a sense of humour as well. And, you know, they used to call me the legal necessity.

You know, we have to have a candidate, so you're the candidate, you know. But listen, one of the, one skill I, I'm going to be a bit immodest now. One skill I have is I like building teams of people. Yeah. And I'm working out who's rubbing against each other and how I'm, we can manage that because they've got a lot to contribute but they don't necessarily like each other and how do you manage those relationships and you know the idea that it policies is all about one person has always been a nonsense and yeah

still is a nonsense I know there's a lot of personality policies but actually you're part of a team but I call it a family yeah a family of people who believe in the same sort of values and same sort of things don't always agree but broadly agree and it's about leading a family forward and so then you have to be very very good at conflict resolution as well yeah if you can I mean hopefully you can steer away from that early on but yeah sometimes not everyone you know people grumble don't they and that's fine that's life but you it's how you respond to that and I think one of the things that my childhood taught me was resilience

yeah become quite a resilient person and you mentioned thick skin I think I sort of let things go off me because you see things proportionate. Going back to actually when I was going to school when mum was ill and I was hearing my mates talking about what they'd watch on TV or what music are going to listen to or whatever and then complaining about something. I used to sort of feel in my mind why are you worried about that? Did you? You know my mum was at home ill and I would in my own mind I think you just have to see things in proportion. Yeah. And that may not help people who feel very

passionate about X, Y, or Z, but I think sometimes you stand back and go, that's, just relax, chill out, that's not that important. Do you know, I really relate to that, because I can remember when my sister died, and I was so close to her head, and I was so devastated when she died, I'm gutted for her girls, obviously, but I can remember someone saying, maybe six months afterwards, I was a bit upset, and they said, why are you crying? I said, just so you know, it will always be about one thing for the rest of my life. It will never be about the parking ticket or you know what I mean the fact that I had a small row with someone it becomes at the heart of everything you sort of carry that around with you and you learn to live with it obviously

but it becomes it's a weird thing isn't it it's just I know what you mean I sort of think I know that's my sort of um touch point for all my emotions really I'll always access it and I'm not sure if it always helps me because in my moment politics is very shouty isn't it Everyone's shouting at each other, social media and angry. And I get that people are angry, right? I get that people understandably feel problems, whether it's a cost of living or getting a GP, all those sorts of things. Things aren't working like they used to or people don't feel as well off as they should

and they're right to feel that. But anger doesn't solve it, right? You've got to be a practical person and think through, okay, things aren't working. How do we improve it? I understand you, I get you and I want to help you. And what I find odd about some of the more populistic extremist parties is... I don't know who you mean. Yeah, well, they sell easy solutions.

Yeah. And I think most people know there's no easy solution. It's tough. Yeah. Life can be hard and challenging and pretending that it's not is, you know, you're just for the bird. Well, it's the Princess Bride quote, isn't it? Do you know that? No, go on. It's something like life is hard. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. Hmm. Exactly.

And I think that is, you know, it's interesting, Ed, because I do want to touch on politics briefly just in terms of you, you obviously, I certainly first became aware of you. I'm not saying you only started to exist when I first became aware of you. But I can remember, you were obviously, prominent in the coalition government, weren't you? Yeah, yeah. You held some prominent positions and I wonder looking back on that. I mean, firstly, I just want to ask you, what was it like working so closely with the Tories? Did you like them?

Well, I mean, first of all, in 2010, people remember what it was like. It felt like the nation was in crisis. And it felt like we had to stand up and do things because it, we had to, we had to we it was our duty, our job to. And again, I don't sound, santimonious about it, but we felt that. Yeah. And I had never imagined I'd be in government with the conservatives because they'd be my opponents in Kingston-Serbton. I just felt that they were my sort of people I wanted to get out of government and the idea of

going into them was not something that had been on my on radar. Also, they keep getting shampas on their ginger hands, I find. So many people have mentioned that to me. And I, but you know, you felt right, let's do this. We felt that we got a good agreement with them. Governing them was tough, right? There was some, let me try me as a bounce I can. There were some conservatives who I got on with relatively well.

Who? People who were thrown out by Boris Johnson. People who... Can you say who they are? Well, I think people would guess they were more pro-European. Oh, I think I can't know who that is. They were more liberal Tories, more compassionate Tories. And they voted against Boris Johnson and they were chucked out.

I will give you one name. It will surprise people because he was no liberal in the classic. He was very much a traditional Tory. Oliver Letwin. But great thing about Oliver, he was a free thinker. Right. He didn't just, well, the party says this, he would challenge his own party. And that meant the coalition, you could have a debate with him.

And there were some people like that who, you looked at the evidence and you said, well, what do the facts say? And okay, you can interpret facts in slightly different ways. Of course you can. But you could have an adult, mature discussion. But then there were others in the society who I couldn't have that with. And I didn't get on with them as much. And I ended up, you know, in quite some battles with them. And one thing, if you look at my recording government, you would see that I fought the Conservatives

quite hard in lots of areas, because I just didn't agree with them. Probably most important. But then it becomes hard for you, doesn't it? Because I know I got the sense at the time that Nick Clegg's position on it was kind of, we don't want to rock the boat by making it look as if there's any disagreement. But I guess what happens retrospectively is then it becomes, people look back on that period and think, oh, austerity, tuition fees. Yeah.

perhaps not knowing what your views were on that or any private battles you might have been fighting. So what I'm saying is do you think maybe that could have been handled differently? Well, of course it could have been. Hello. Hello. But one thing I think is important if you're in a situation like that is loyalty to the person who's trying to do the difficult job of leading. Which is Nick Clegg in that instance. So I thought he deserved our loyalty.

Yeah. in really difficult circumstances. You could have private conversation with them, but they would be private. Okay. And the only thing I said after the election, which people might interpret disloyal, it wasn't really, but I said, look, if you're in the middle of the road, you better wear a high visibility jacket or you get knocked a lot or you get an octalo. And the strategy that he adopted, and there was an argument for it, was to,

show that coalition could work and therefore minimize the public disagreements. Because his argument was, and it's a fair argument, that if you want electoral reform, coalition government would be more common. Parties would have to work together more. And therefore he wanted to show that coalition could work so that we could get that reform and people wouldn't be afraid of it. my my um my my thinking at the time and i think still is that you do have to stand out as a party and be clear and you there was a sense that people were enjoying it too much yeah and i wasn't

enjoying it i was battling sharp elbows you know this is what i want to achieve um and we were i mean only convinced me that the experience of coalition only convinced me i was in the right party I could never be an exerptist, right? So despite seeing some overlap on things like the economy, I could see that and defence, I could see that, but we were different tribes. And some aspects of that Nanny state thing, I believe you're not a fan of over-involve?

No, no. So they weren't as interested in the environment climate change as I am, or necessarily sticking up the most vulnerable people as I think we should but there were things where we could work together on it and to be honest I think that's grown up politics I think the idea we should stick in our trenches and just you know fire pot shots at the opposite I think it's in really bad politics and I worry where we've got into that but we're with extremists at either side of the spectrum selling with the kind of

rise of populism. Yeah, and that doesn't, populism doesn't lend itself to working with each other. But do you think, Ed, it's interesting, isn't it? Because we've been through, is it six prime ministers since Brexit? We could be on course for a seventh. That feels like we're burning through prime ministers at a very high rate. I mean, I have a theory. Obviously, I know nothing about this, but I sort of wonder if that is linked to Brexit in a way, that what's happened now is because people, because of populism, everything has become so binary. So instead of saying, oh, that's a manager who's made a mistake, it becomes traitor, enemy of the people, you must go. Everyone around that leader starts panicking because of social media, everything's around the

globe in a minute. I wonder if it's kind of a hysteria. I think the, I think this is a thing. I think There's probably a lot in that. I'm so pleased I got it right, Ed, agreed with you. I don't think I know anything about this. No, I think there's definitely something in it. Brexit, obviously, which I in my party were very much against, I think led to quite a few divisions. I think it led to lots of falsehoods that people think are now true.

Yeah. I mean, my experience of working in Europe was a far more positive one than the thing people believe about Europe. No one knows I got the biggest deregulation in the whole of the coalition government because I changed the European law. I mean, has everyone ever heard that? But I did it because I got off my backside

and I went and talked to the people who might agree with the UK and we got an agreement and we sorted it. So I'm in favour of working with other people and doing it in an adult, mature, grown-up way because that is what life is about. If you've got tough things, trying to do them by yourself is not going to work.

You have to find friends and allies and your mates and your friends and your, you know, to make sure that you're strong enough to do what you've got to do. Yeah. And that's not always easy. And it's not necessarily fashionable at the moment I hope it comes back in fashion

because I think that's the only way to get over the ungovernability stuff the fact that we've had so many prime ministers we're going to get to more stability which is so much better for people so much better for people who wants things changing the whole time you want to change yes

but of course you want to change I want to change our country that's why I'm in politics but you want to do it in a way which doesn't disrupt lives disrupt the economy disrupt people's personal plans I think people respond, understandably negatively, if governments are making changes that, you know, tear up the roots of what they were used to and what they believed in. You've got to work with people, work with communities, and you can get fantastic change. But then I suppose, it's interesting, isn't it? Because things are moving, I feel, towards more, I suppose, personality politics.

Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's the link to populism, isn't it? So I look at someone like Andy Burnham and I can see that that makes sense for the Labour Party just in terms of the optics of a candidate like that because his politics do feel slightly more emotionally driven. How do you, does that put pressure on you to feel I need to kind of people to connect with me? Yeah. Let me put it in a way.

I think you talk about emotion. I think emotion is really important in modern. politics. So back in the day probably people would just say it's all about reason and argument and so on. Yeah. But I'm afraid in there. Look at that man. What did he do? He high five me. Hi-fired me. Hi-fired me. Oh, I love that. Do you get that a lot? A little bit. I've seen quite a few people smiling at you and look really happy to see you. And no offense, I wouldn't expect that for a politician. Is that nice? Yeah. And people are nice too generally? Oh, the vast majority. Absolutely lovely. But that man, people really like you, I think.

that's good isn't it? Yeah, well, you know, you mentioned personality politics, hopefully. Yeah, this is good for you, Ed. But I think, going back to emotion, I think the age of just arguing people out and saying, I've got the best facts, I know what to do, you should do this. And that's gone. And, you know, you'll get someone like Farage or Trump to say,

oh, it's fake news and tell us some lie. I think the only way you will win the argument is if you can show its connection to emotion, and to people's real experiences. Right. So let me give you an example, talking about my son, talking about the brook. There's seven million people caring for loved ones out there. And after I got over myself and crossed the Rubicon and told the story, I realised that actually

it meant a lot to many, many people, not just a few, but millions. And therefore it's important to connect with people. And you do that in emotional way sometimes telling sad things. but also the humour. I mean, Boris Johnson connected with people, right? Because he was a shumorous guy. Talking of Boris Johnson, we've just got to the zoo, behind the zoo. I don't wish to be rude.

And I've just seen some giant buffoonish camels. Look at, look, these are amazing. He's got the hump, hasn't he? Ed, stand up comedy, we're getting it all with this man. Hello. Fine, thank you. Wow, do you know what I reckon John might like the zoo? Has he been to the zoo?

Oh, he loves zoos, yeah, he likes us. Just because I think animals are really good to connect as well at making those, because there are sort of emotional connections, aren't they? Totally, totally. We've got these to zoo in my consistency. It's called Chessington World Adventures. Chesson Zoo. I mean, your name dropped that one.

Of course I know Chessington. So I've taken my kids there and, Yeah, I what were you saying? I'm sorry the camels the the Boris Johnson at Camels distracted us. Boyd, Boris Johnson connected people because he had a sense of humour Yeah, crazy stuff but that's not enough is it? You need some substance so yeah, I mean I was known for doing a few crazy things during the general action. Oh yeah, a roller coaster and and paddleball and bungee jumping. What do you think of that now? Do people sort of say to you or you do Stumps and things? Well I mean some people do but actually a lot of people really engage with it.

And I had some fun with a great team doing it. I mean, the bungee jump was amazing. So they all said, are you sure you want to do this? He's sure you want to do it? And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure you want to do it. And then the best advice I had. Was don't do it. No, no, no.

You didn't take it. No, no. It was don't look down. Look at the horizon. Jump at the horizon. And I followed that. And then it was fine. And my mates who did it with me, the amazing Josh Baburinda,

is now the MP Free Sporn. Yeah. He looked down. And when he looked down, Do you know what he saw? What? He saw a cemetery. Oh my God, that's awful. Guess what? He was a bit nervous about jumping. But he did it. Do you fare to him? Did it?

Should we head back now? Yeah, this way is... Yeah. That little baby. Isn't he like a baby? He's very calming. He was very calming to me when I lost my family. I would just, it was really weird.

It was just like a very benign presence he was. And that's why I got obsessed with dogs, Ed. because I realised dogs live in the present and that's something I think you'll understand this you have to learn with grief you have to keep moving forward you know you've got no choice otherwise you know you go you go into a very deep deep dark place yeah and um dogs get you up in the morning that's partly what I thought is I need a reason to get up in the morning well my brother Charles when my Nana had lost her only child and her husband yeah to this black Labrador in me and uh in Nana would say it saved her life because she could pour her love into this is when your grandfather died yeah and her daughter I mean really traumatic time for her as

well very much so so going back to politics briefly I wonder what do you make of the time of us doing this interview there's all this talk about Andy Burnham obviously yeah is he someone you could see yourself doing business with if he became the next Labour leader at the moment I don't really know what he's stands for? Yeah. As we speak... He's not even been elected yet.

He's not been elected and he's not even elected to Parliament yet. He's got to win that by-election in Makerfield. I mean, take Europe, which you mentioned, I think it was a mistake leaving. I think we've got to get back there at some stage. It's not going to happen quickly, but if we want to improve our economy, cut cost of living, cut taxes, can the grow economy and be safer, more secure, defence and such. We've got to work with our European friends. But Ed, how do you communicate that to people without saying you voted for the wrong thing?

And James O'Brien, who I love, I think always deals with this brilliantly because he says, you know, contempt for the people who conned you, not for you for voting for them. Well, I think people are understanding that things have changed. Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump wasn't a thing. We hadn't had lots of the things that have happened since Brexit hadn't happened. I think it's changed the calculation dramatically on defence and security and on trade. Yeah.

And therefore, if things change, it's not unreasonable for people to change their minds. So I don't in any way look to. down on people who voted Lee. That was their right to express their view. I disagree with them. But I said before, it's with democracy. Yeah. I do now think that things have changed. Well, they voted with the information they were given. Yeah. Yeah. And now they can see that it's been a, frankly, a bit of disaster. Yeah. But Europe no longer, it doesn't trust as either, by the way. You know, the idea that we haven't affected the other side, of course the affected the side. they're pretty they've suffered by the way because the whole thing about trade is you benefit both

sides benefit but they've been hit too so I don't know I think we we need to build a closer relationship with Europe we have to do that and going back to the Burnham point we should start this conversation I don't know where he is on that you know one day is this and one day is that flip-flop how can you make a judgment when he's all over the place as another leader do you feel a bit sorry for Kirstormer at the moment I guess you can feel sorry for someone from a human level. I mean, I'd had very high hopes, to be honest, when he came in. I did want to see the back of the last Conservative government,

which is shambolic by the end, and I hoped he'd bring change. And I've just, I think, like a lot of people, I've been disappointed. And then I've got frustrated and annoyed, frankly. So I... Do you like him as a person? I don't know him terribly well, but you tend to meet other party leaders on Remembrance Sunday when you're queuing up with your wreath and you chat and you're having a coffee. What do you say to them? Hello, Lear.

Well, you can't possibly comment, you have a bit of a gossip. I did go up to, I probably shouldn't say, as I'm going to say anyway, there was David Cameron talking to Bryce Johnson. When I remember your team, it looks like he's about to vomit. So one of these coffee moments before we went out to Whitehall with our reeds for a remnant Sunday, I saw Boris Johnson talking David Cameron. And they both left Parliament by this time. But past Prime Ministers invited back. And their concessionses had both been, took a concert to be defeated.

They now had Liberal Democrat MPs. Yeah. So I rather mischievously went up to them and said, Hi, David, hi, Boris. What's it like having a Liberal Democrat MP in your constituency? How did that go down? Well, they smiled. They knew I was being mischievous and naughty.

This one. Pull of him. I'm not sure if I was making friends, but... So, I know you've obviously spoken a lot about Nigel Farage, because you're not really a fan of his politics, are you? It's fair to say? I think I'm the opposite. I think I've sort of disagreed him on almost everything.

Yeah. Have you met him, Ed? Yeah, I have. I bumped into him on TV studios for interviews. I once bumped into him in a TV studio. I was going on this morning doing something, and he gave me his business card. And a friend of mine, I said,

oh, look what I got earlier. She said, I'd get rid of that. I think that's quite a bad thing to have in your bag. The problem is, with someone like Farage, is people read into him what they want to read into him and aren't necessarily asking quite the questions about what life would be like. And so I coined this phrase, don't let Trump's America become Farage as Britain. Right.

And the reason I've done that is that, to be fair, he does think Donald Trump is the greatest thing he is that he admires him. He even called him, doesn't he called my boss at Mar-a-Lago. So he's a bit of a Trump lover. And I don't think many people want us to go down the Trump America route, myself. And I think you need to sort of explain to people, that's what it would be like. If you want to look into the future, if Farage became prominent, that's what it would be like. You know, it would be much more unfair.

I think, you know, the NHS's future would be in doubt. You know, he said some crazy things about gun laws. I would just caution people. Look before you buy. Look before you buy. It's difficult though, isn't it? Because I suppose you're traditionally the third party. Do you think that they're challenging your reform for that currently as the third party?

Well, I think they're trying to say the second party. Well, they're leading the polls. I think their biggest opponents are the Tories. I mean, the Conservatives and Reform are really massive. massively up against each other. Yeah. I think, though, we are in a position where we could stop reform winning and stop Farage getting to number 10.

And the reason is this, the rationale is this. We took most of our seats, and we had our best result for 100 years. At the last election, we took most of our seats from the Conservatives. Seats the reform would like. So we're already in their way. Yeah. And I think we can do well up the next election. I think we can win more seats off the Conservatives, as well as Labor.

But a lot of seats we can win off the Conservatives. And for Nigel Farage getting to number 10, he has to win those seats. Right. So if we win those seats off the Conservative rather than reform, then we stop Nigel Farage. So, you know, it's one of many things motivated. But then if that's your... I suppose that's what's become tricky, though, isn't it? Because you're right.

That's your objective. Well, one of my objectives. Well, that's one of your objectives. But then does that then mean in various seats that you're thinking... you know, oh well actually I prefer labour getting. So let's say with the Andy Burnham situation, is it better to allow him to get in? Well, the way we think about this is slightly different from that.

Yeah. Because it's not, you know, some seats, it's extremely difficult for you to win because you haven't got any counsellors or you've got no tradition there or the demography, the sorts of people who live there are not your natural supporters. Yeah.

And in those seats, it is genuinely difficult for us to make progress. And by the way, there are seats like that where it's impossible for Labour to make progress. There are seats like that where it's impossible for reformers to make progress. So I think the media, in their wisdom, try and make out every seat's the same. Every seat is completely different. There are different political opportunities for different parties. And that's just how life is. And so there's some seats we can win and some seats we're not likely to win.

I obviously want to increase the number. I want to do better in the north of England. I think there's huge opportunities there. I want to do better in urban areas and there's huge opportunities there. So yeah, we want to do as well as we can, but we also have to be realistic. We don't have the money. We've not been given millions of pounds by a crypto billionaire who lives in Thailand. I don't want to just get too back to Nigel Farage again, but he has extraordinary

people who don't even live here giving him lots of money. Yeah. And I think that's not right myself. But it seems quite shameless about acknowledging that as well. So would you say then, Ed? Will you interview him, do you think? Do you know, I couldn't do it? So amishable.

I don't think I could do it. I think I just... You might find it's a bit nicer than you think. Do you know, I bet he's charming, you know? I bet he's charming. My concern, Ed, is that I can sort of look, I grew up in a family that would probably be called liberal elites now, you know, and sort of bohemian literary sort of left-leaning. Yeah, yeah. But I could always tolerate what I call the Michael Heselheim sort of conservatives.

You know, there was an old school honour where I felt, look, I didn't like Mark. Ken Clark. Yeah, Ken Clark. I sort of felt there was an ideology behind their politics, that they believed it. I didn't really like Maggie Thatcher, but I believe that she absolutely believed in what she was doing was the right thing. Yeah, that's true. And what concerns me about people like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson is I don't think they believe it. I think it's completely self-serving and self-interested and they just changed their mind, depending on what suited them.

Emily, I couldn't have put it better myself. Take that, take that. That's really good. I like that. I got it right again. I don't know anything about politics, but this is just what I think. Oh, this way. I think that's my problem with him. And that's why I would feel nervous about having someone like him on, because it's giving a platform to someone who's not gone into politics for the right reasons.

Well, as I say, I strongly agree with that. And I really fear what would happen to our country. And you look at what Trump has done undermining American democracy. America's a wonderful place, right? I'm it's very odd people think oh the Ed Davy likes having to go at Donald Trump I don't in a way I don't because I think America is a really important ally and at heart most Americans share our values because they're not a perfect country but you know there's a lot in common we share and I think Donald Trump is against those

American values let alone British values yeah and I think he represents self-serving I mean, blimey, the amount of corruption that he's a, he's seen and his cronies are into is extraordinary. And I wouldn't want our country to go that way. But then it's difficult because you have to do business with him, don't you? I know you were a bit critical, won't you, of the King's state visit, because of your feelings on Donald Trump. And now, it seems like that was quite as successful, though. So do you feel differently about that now? No, I don't. I mean, listen, the King is amazing.

is our best diplomat ever, and his speech to Congress was just a triumph. Huge success. However, here's the point. First of all, should Donald Trump have been rewarded with that? He insulted our troops in Afghanistan. He insulted our Royal Navy. His policies are against our national interests. You know, his war in Iran is hurting families across the country.

So why do you reward someone when they're like that? And secondly, yes, our kingdom is a fantastic job. No question about that. But will Trump in two months' time say, oh, you know, the king came over, he was a really nice guy. Let's treat Britain nicely. He didn't do that when he had state banquet. He gave him an unprecedented second state banquet. And the week after that, he was criticising the UK.

So he's so unreliable. He's so unpredictable. But I think giving him sweeties just as we encouraged. him yeah yeah maybe it's like trying to people please with the school bully yeah he's a bully and he's i mean i'm hoping that and so the polls suggest he's going to have a very very bad election night for his party uh in november um we'll just see we'll have to wait and see but i mean i meet a lot of americans who are embarrassed by him how do you switch off ed because you know i've You must have so much pressure with your job.

And I want to know, if you and Emily are saying to yourself, look, let's just give ourselves a night off work. Because she, we should say, is very heavily involved in politics. Yeah, I met her in the party, yeah. Yeah. And how do you switch off in terms of, if you're sitting down saying, let's watch this on TV, this is our favourite show. What are you going to watch?

Now there's a good one. She doesn't like action films, she doesn't like misery, so it has to be a comedy. She likes the carry-on films. She likes to carry-on films. I'm just, listen, Ed Davey and Emily sitting down, carry-on, camping. What do you like, though? What do you like to watch? What comedy would you like?

What shows would you like? Well, I mean, this is a bit old-fashioned now, but go on, I'm old-fashioned. I was a big into Monty Python. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, 40 towers. Yeah. And all like comedy. It's all, I love it.

Have you seen Saturday Night Live UK? I have at different times, yeah. Did you like it? Yeah. Would you feel, well, how would you feel if you, they did a Kirstama impression on that? I'm sure. Listen, if they're doing impression of you,

that probably means that you've succeeded and got elected. So it's not a bad place to be. I mean, in terms of relaxing, there's two types of relaxing. First of all, with the family, right? Yeah. I think if I just went off and played golf or something, everybody would look at me rather askance and said, oh, what are you going to do with the children?

You don't strike me as a golfer? No, I've never had time for golf, afraid. I thought it's a lovely sport. But, so what do we do? We go swimming with the kids. We go walking with the kids. So what music is on in the car? If you put on the car, if you turn on the engine and you think this song makes me happy,

is it going to be a bit of Abba? What, the kids love Ava? Do they? Yeah. They also don't like the fact that I like playing Sweet Caroline. I think it's a night that I beat reminds me of election night when we did really well. And they take the mic of a lot of my music. Go on.

What's the, what's also on Ed Davies' playlist? Let's look at my music. I shall go through. Okay, let's have a little look. There you are. You can have a little look at a Davy's playlist, everyone. I'm excited. So we've got Abba Adele Adel. Ava Adel.

All the Ayes. Alan Partons, Alison Moyet, Barbara Streisand, then classical music, Beach Boys. What, I didn't know you're such a diva with your Barbara Streisand. Beatles. Oh, the Beatles. Beverly Cray, Billy Joel. I love Billy Joel.

He's one of my favourites. Black Pink. Carol King, Carpenters. Cold Play. Coldplay, Coldplay. Do you know? Cranberries. I really like this playlist.

Do you know why? Because it seems genuine. I mean, I know it's genuine because you just pulled it out. Unless remember of your team said, I'm just going to get a playlist together in case yours. Do you think we have the time for that? But that's really good.

Elky Brooks. I love Elky Brooks. Elton John. Everything but the girl, that's my favourite. Freewood Mac. You've got good musical taste. You see, you're not going to fall into what I call Gordon Brown.

Do you remember that? He was asked about what they always get asked this. What's your favourite favourite song or music? I think he might have said arctic monkeys and he got something wrong. It was one of those moments. But I wonder if how you get around those moments is just be honest. I mean listen most of my friends would say my music is hopeless and they all laugh at me. I remember my first year at uni, friends came round to my room and they looked at my record collection and said do you listen to BBC Radio 2 and they didn't mean it as a compliment for a 19 year old. But um hello hello there hi there so pleased to meet you that's coming nice see you yeah yeah yeah yeah good you're from Somerset Taunton get you you're a good you know he's

great guy yeah yeah yeah are you a fan of it absolutely yes absolutely thank you that's very kind of you you're doing a great job Can we say this has not been stage, has it? No, I'm interviewing Ed at the moment. Are you? Yeah. And it's nice that he's met a nice fan. Oh, yeah.

I've always voted live down all my life. Oh, right, thank you. Thank you very much. Jeremy Brown before. Oh, he's a great guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God, who's we have? Jackie Ballard.

Jackie Ballard. Thank you. He knows them all, you see. My job. That's fine. Can I put my arms on you? Oh, thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you very much. Let's go here Adam, we'll just do a quick video. Can I ask you a question before you go? Of two questions. When did you last cry? Oh, just now, didn't I? Back there. A little bit. Let's just think about my dad in the letter you wrote. Proper crying there, proper crying. I mean, I can respond to things that are quite emotional. So here's the thing. My wife and I cried when it We were talking about we needed to invite a Ukrainian to our family and to live with us, which we did. And it's quite an emotional moment in a funny sort of way because we're thinking about them,

realising it have big input on our lives because my daughter and son had to share a room so we can make space for them. But we knew we had to do it. And it was, and it says, oh, that we cried about that, but it was almost about thinking about what they're going through over there. And I think we should never forget the sacrifices they're making. I mean, it's just soaring. When you talk to Ukrainians and their country is being demolished, their kith and kin are being murdered, it's just horrible. And I mean, there's lots of wars in other places, of course,

but I don't know, there's something about the Ukrainian war that was close. And it was not very much, but you just do it. something. Yeah. I wanted to also ask you what do people get most wrong about you Ed? Oh they underestate me. I don't mind being underestimated but the underestimate me the whole time. And they that sounds a bit big head, isn't it? I mean, I am determined the values that I represent win, particularly with the illiberalism, populism extremism we're now faced with yeah we have to push that back we have to protect our democracy we have to protect our freedom we have to

protect British values and they're on the they're on the line at them and both from the far left far right and I just want I hope and this interview is helpful people hear what we're about because I think most people actually would agree with our ideas if they heard more about them and one of my biggest challenges is making sure more people hear about them. Finally, you leave a room. What do you most fear people will say about you and what do you hope they would say?

Ed is very... We'll do the bad one first, Ed. Yeah, no, I'm doing the bad. I'm thinking what is I worry about? He had nothing to say. He had nothing to say. What do I like them to say? about me um wow wow i'm going to vote for him and you know someone who's decent who who

stands up for what he believes in and i can relate to him and somebody who likes dogs i think there's a lot of dog owners in this country and i think you're going to have to get dogs more involved we've already as you pointed out we've already got steve darling who's one of your MPs? And he has a dog called Jenny, and it makes me laugh so much, some of the videos you see of her, just like falling asleep

in the middle of someone giving an impassioned speech or something. But I think you should get dogs. I've had a theory about that. I think getting dogs into the House of Commons would be, because dogs have a calming effect on people. Well, the speaker does like animals. Really? All different types.

He collects them. And I keep meaning to ask him, if I can have a cat in my office. Obviously not a dog. There's anything about a dog if you had in your office. You do need them to have a lot of time. Yeah, but Ray would be fine because he's like a cat. You could borrow Ray if you want to.

I don't think you would give up Ray for a second. Do you know, I never would have. But for you, I might make an exception. I have thoroughly loved walking with you. Have you enjoyed it? No, totally. As I say, I'll come back next week. And I really recommend everyone buys your brilliant book. Thank you.

Because I absolutely loved it and it really gave me an insight into kind of who you were and what had driven you into politics, you know. I just felt like it comes from a genuine place. Ed, I've absolutely loved meeting you. Thank you so much for coming on our podcast and for being so lovely to Raymond. Oh, that was easy. He was gorgeous. He is gorgeous. Do you want to say goodbye to him?

Bye, Sir Ed Davy. Bye-bye. Bye-bye, Raymond. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of One. Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.