Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Stephen Mangan (Part One)

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

This week Emily and Ray take a stroll on Hampstead Heath with the wonderful Stephen Mangan, actor, writer, presenter and all-round comic genius.Stephen talks to Emily about his childhood in Enfield with his Irish-born parents, studying law at Cambridge, and ultimately deciding to become an actor. It turned out to be a very good decision, as he went on to appear in some truly iconic shows, from I’m Alan Partridge (as the unforgettable Dan) to Green Wing, Episodes, and the hugely popular legal drama The Split.Stephen is also a best-selling children’s author, and has just released his latest book Barrie Saves Christmas, illustrated by his sister Anita. It’s a brilliantly funny and heartwarming festive story about a giant St Bernard dog on a mission to stop an elf sabotaging Christmas, the perfect gift for young readers who love dogs, humour and the magic of the season.It’s a warm, funny and wide-ranging conversation with one of the most likeable and talented figures in British comedy and drama. And yes, he and Ray definitely bonded over their suspiciously similar hairstyles.Pick up your copy of Barrie Saves Christmas hereFollow Emily:InstagramXWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I got asked my autograph and I signed it and gave it back to the woman and she looked at my name and said, who? I said Stephen Mangon. She went, oh sorry, I thought you were Lawrence Llewellyn Bowen. So it wasn't all upside. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a stroll with a very wonderful actor, writer, presenter and all-round comic genius Stephen Mangon. Stephen and I met up on Hampstead Heath for our walk

and he seemed very taken with Ray. Mainly, as he decided they had spookily similar hairstyles. Stephen was such a lovely person to go for a walk with, partly as he's just fabulous company, but also because he's had such an interesting life and career, and we covered pretty much all of it, from his childhood growing up in Enfield with his Irish-born parents, to his law degree at Cambridge,

and his decision to become an actor, which, as it turned out, was a very good decision as he's gone on to star in some truly iconic shows from I'm Alan Partridge, where he famously played Dan, Dan, to Green Wing and episodes, and more recently, of course, the hugely popular legal drama The Split. Stephen is also a very successful children's author who's written numerous best-selling books, and he's just published his latest, Barry Saves Christmas, which, by the way, is illustrated by Stephen's very talented sister Anita,

and I loved it, because Barry is a huge slobbery, St Bernard Dog, who goes on a mission to stop an elf who's trying to sabotage Christmas. It's a brilliantly funny, beautifully written children's book. So if you're looking for a gift for a young person who loves dogs and Christmas, I can't think of a better present. Ray and I absolutely loved our walk with Stephen. He's obviously a very smart and very funny person, but he's also just immensely likable.

And he was so friendly and warm to everybody we encountered on our walk, especially the two beautiful Papillon dogs we met called Duke and Lady. I wish I could say Ray was friendly to them, but frankly, he didn't like those two bombshells stealing his focus. Really hope you enjoy this episode. I'll hand over now to the man himself. Here's Stephen and Ray Ray. Come on Ray.

Come on Raymond. I don't know how you feel about this, Stephen. Yeah. But I was thinking of wandering up in the direction of the coffee place. Lovely. And we could get a coffee or a tea. That would be good. Would you be up for that?

I've drunk quite a lot of coffee already, but I'm always up for more. So this is your manor, isn't it really, North London? This is my manor. This is my, I come to the heath at least once a week. I'll run up here. I'll run up to Kenwood House across the, yeah, I've got a particularly set route, so I don't normally get to this bit of it down by these ponds. But I do love the heath.

It's just mad that there is this huge expanse of quite wild and woolly. countryside and right in the middle of London. We've met our first dog, Stephen. Hello. Hello, fella. Little white dog. Little white dog. He's got a ball and he's just, he's not interested in us. No, he doesn't care. He's got his own thing going on. And what do you think of Ray? You've just met Ray? Ray's a great, got a great look. He's quite sort of back heavy, isn't he? How dare you? Well, there's more, there's just, I mean, I'm not saying he's not, I'm not saying he's got a big butt. I'm just saying there's a lot more going on at the back end and the front end. That has been said about me. On a date. Yeah, he's got junk in the trunk. He's a Kardashian. He's got charisma. I would give him that much. He's quite perky, isn't he?

I think he's got a lot of elegance. I think you're quite like him, Stephen. I've got a good feeling about this relationship. I think he's going to be, we're going to be buddies. And we're going to talk about your brilliant book. We're going to get on to that, which I was telling you when you arrived, Barry saves Christmas, which is stars a dog at St. Burr's. It's St Bernard. And lots of other dogs. Yes, and lots of other dogs. And one of them, I do this because I'm obsessed with my dog.

And so when I read about dogs, I think, oh, which one's like Ray? And there's a poodle called Daphne in that book. Oh, do you think? Bit snooty. Do you think Ray's a bit snooty? He is a bit. Right. What do you think?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, at the moment, all I'm getting is just happy to be here vibes from him. You're quite polite and well brought up, I'm getting the same, so I don't think you'd say. you'd say. I think you'd go back to your wife and say, that dog was a snobby nightmare. No, I mean, so far, he's given me nothing to, there's been no downside to Ray. It's all upside at the moment. But, you know, the walk is young. Well, this is true. Let's go up here. Okay. There's a lot of this in my book. Dog's sniffing each other's bum. This is how they talk to each other. They pretend they're sniffing each other's bums. Oh, Ray's peeing

while his new best friend is checking him out at the back end. I mean, you're my new best friend, but I would never do that to you see. That's a little bit rude, isn't it? Ray, come on. You could have waited a microsecond. Anyway, he's watching him go, why did you? Yeah, he's gone, Ray. Why do you think he's gone?

Yes, no use having regrets now, mate. I mean, Ray, buy him a drink for her. Listen, Ray, it's all right to make a mistake. Just don't make the same mistake twice. That's all I'm saying. Oh, I'm going to enjoy this walk. I can feel it already. Yeah.

So, I want to get into the man in origin story a bit. Yeah. Because you've got a fascinating origin story because you come from a very big extended family, don't you? Yeah. Sorry, Stephen. Look, I'm going to carry him over. Yeah, no, fair enough.

Like Queen Elizabeth. Yeah. And is it 52 cousins? 52 first cousins. Yeah, my dad was one of nine, and mum was one of seven, Irish family, both. from Ireland, west coast of Ireland, County Mayo, the Wild West, about as far as west as you can get in Europe. And they all ended up, all my mum's brothers and her sister ended up in the UK and so did all my dad's family because no work in Ireland in the 60s. So they all came over.

Dad worked as a labourer, moved to Wilsden. Mum worked as a barmaid in Camden at the Camden stores and when they you know when you come over as a 15 16 17 year old you go to the pub owned by someone from your neighbourhood back in Ireland because you'll know you'll meet people who you either know or have a lot in common with you and there was also quite a lot of discrimination against irish people yeah it was a sort of you know no no dogs no blacks no irish kind of era and yeah interesting when because mum had me young she was only 21 and it's in i always think it's interesting she called us Stephen Anita and Lisa we're not called Paddy Sheila and Mary you know so I wonder whether she was consciously or not trying to kind of

free us from the probably the you know the agro that she was either getting directly or just could feel in the air the time so I don't know but yeah very happy family though very happy family and your dad he built petrol stations yeah well he was the fourth boy in his family to come to London. So, excuse me, his older brothers had sort of realised there wasn't, you know, they wanted to do something else other than labouring. So they set up a company together and they called it Mangon Brothers Limited, which is, you

know, does what it says on the tin. I don't know where that was a very short meeting. We're brothers, it's a company, Mangon Brothers Limited, done deal. But yeah, they ended up specialising and building petrol stations. And kind of during the 70s and 80s, that was quite a stable because those big oil companies kind of didn't suffer the, you know, they did pretty well during that period. So yeah, they did pretty, they did well. And they kind of, so yeah, I was this son of a, you know, working class Irish parents, but ended up going to quite posh English schools. Hello, hello, mate.

Well, this is a big boy and again, this is something you talk about and Barry says Christmas. Barry says this, St Bernard, but often when people encounter big dogs and they're a bit intimidated, they cover it by saying, oh, you're a big boy. And that's what I've just done, Stephen. You're just slightly worried because that dog looks like he could swallow Ray Ho, doesn't he? This is the thing. Yeah. I mean, they're like different species sometimes.

Well, yeah. So, yeah. And your mum was a homemaker, wasn't she? Her mum was a homemaker. I think that was very much the kind of expectation. He does this, Stephen. Look, you can write a dog about the stubborn shih Tzu. He's on a go slow.

Shih Tzu's do this? I only found out of where I got him. I was told, do you not know stubborn Shih Tzu syndrome? No. I said, no, I don't. They just stop. Right. What are they...

Come on, Ray. Follow Stephen. I get in the feeling that it's Ray's world. and we're all just living in it. Is that true? Yes. He's not having it, is he? He's got quite a healthy sense of entitlement.

Yeah, well, fair enough. And so... So, yeah, so they... So mum was at home. We also, because her mother died, I was the first grandchild on my mum's side. Right. So mum had when she was 21,

but her mum was really sick and died four of her. four or five months before I was born at age of 47 leaving two young kids still back in Ireland my aunt Bridget who was 11 and my uncle Alan who was nine so they now had to find somewhere to live they living with their father wasn't an option so we took Bridget in and my mum's elder brother PJ took Alan in so Bridget came to live with us so I think within a year of getting married

well just before they got married they ended up sort of inheriting an 11 year old girl my mum's youngest sister to come and live in the house so yeah I mean I don't think anyone thought twice and I'm sure dad you know was happy to do it but it's quite interesting

so family was a big thing for yeah huge you know those connections and my mum's brothers all work together My dad's brothers all worked together. In fact, two of his sisters also worked for Mangar Brothers. So, yeah, they didn't get their name on the, above the door, but... Which way? Which way, Stephen, towards that Parliament Hill coffee bit? Is it that way? That's Parliament Hill, yeah. That's probably the closest coffee bit, I reckon. Okay.

And so, was your dad... Was he quite sort of strict and boundary? Did he have rules? He was strict, I think, yeah, he was. I think his... parents had been pretty strict with him um he'd left school at 14 and so had mum god isn't that weird that's just unthinkable now i know and i think the schooling they did get was pretty shoddy yeah so both very bright both really almost completely uneducated and but you know very curious about the world and you know valued learning and mum read a lot dad you know taught himself I don't know, they were just so people who sort of sucked up knowledge and information

and I think mum would have loved to have had a proper education. So they instilled in me, you know, education is very important. Yeah. And getting, and getting not just any education, but getting something practical. If I'd said I wanted to go to university and read philosophy, I think they'd have looked to me. Like, why? Why would you want to do that? What's the point? Well, better to do something secure like acting. Something, yeah, well, this is it. But I went to do it. law I studied law that was what I read but yeah then they were they were they were fun and I think they sort of discovered you know they'd obviously both moved from another country to

move here and a big city and they sort of you know made the most of it loved eating out going to the theatre big parties at home yes I can see the man and big parties oh I mean sitting on the top of the stairs you know you could the rug roll back and them all just dancing to Irish jigs. I mean, I was a bit like Safi and absolutely fabulous, just going, please go to bed. I've got double maths in the morning, you know, I was that kid. What were you like as a kid? I always ask people, I think it's interesting to think if you were one of your friends' parents and they said, what's little Stephen Mangon like? What would they have said? I think a bit split personality. I'd be quite serious. Yeah. Quite, sort of anxious about doing it,

doing things right but at the same time quite silly i mean i had two younger sisters but we're very close in age yeah and a lot of silly laughing just rolling around on the floor laughing a lot of reading i always had my head in a book from the age of about seven or eight constantly reading sitting at the dinner room dinner table with a book beside me on the bench and were you always funny Stephen? Was that something that was more of a family currency? I think it was more of a family thing, yeah. I think it was more of a family thing. So no one would have, if they'd have come in, wouldn't necessarily have said this boy's going to be on the stage? No, but quite early on in my school life, acting became my thing. My first starring part was in Beauty

and the Beast, playing beauty. Lovely role. You can believe it, with an Auburn wig and a green emerald green dress I can believe it I mean I would imagine most people would cast me as the beast but yeah beauty and then Long John Silver Fagin aged 11 bit problematic now but we'll let it go I mean you know cultural appropriation was alive and well in the late 70s early 80s so yeah I mean I that you know sometimes you know things become kids have a thing at school when it's painting or football or maths and mine was acting and from very early on i would sort of play main parts and i loved it so i think it might not have been a total surprise to people that i

ended up doing it for a living was there a part of you because you obviously as you say you went on you went to boarding school first yeah weirdly i get the sense this was very much you were the architect of this decision. I was, yeah. My parents didn't want me to go at all. Yeah, and then because you sort of said, oh, I want to go, you were stuck with it, but it turned out you didn't love it, did you? I hated it. Absolutely hate the first two years. Why did you hate it? I was bullied, I was lonely. I wasn't used to be, you know, it's like being on Big Brother. You're 24 hours a day, you're never off. There's no way you can go and escape and led off steam and have your own little space you're in a room you're sleeping in a room with 20 30 other boys so even at night

there's people um you know everywhere and i was small for my age and i was quite probably quite gobby and wouldn't back down but didn't have the physical prowess to back it up when things got you know physical so i ended up getting bullied and hated it but i didn't tell my parents because they didn't want me to go there in the first place. It was totally my idea. I've got a scholarship to go. So, you know, it was a kind of, you couldn't have got a more alien education from one my parents had.

It was just, they just had no concept of why I wanted to go there and what was happening while I was there. But it was presumably a good school academically. Yeah. And do you think, was there any sense of you? I know it was your decision, but was there a sense of you thinking, well, I need to make good on this investment, even though it was a scholarship. It's like, I'm going to this school now, I'm going to have to knuckle down and get good grades. I just didn't see any other alternative.

Yeah. You know, it wasn't like there was a plan B. I was stuck there. I didn't want to tell my parents how unhappy I was because it was kind of my fault and my decision. And so I just sort of rode it out for a couple of years. And then things got better. And then I had actually had a really good time the last two or three years I was there. I loved it.

But I just thought, here I am. I've just got to sort of find a way to get through it. All right, Ray, here you go. Come on, you can go down now. Does he frolic down? I mean, does he fly down a hill? Yeah, let's keep him off his lead, Stephen. I think frollicking might be pushing it.

Does he move in the speed of light? That he was just being mean. No, I mean, I want to see him really going, I want to see how far, I want to see him, see what you can do, Ray. Come on, Ray. Show Stephen how you run. Come on. There we go.

He's very laid back, isn't he? He looks like he's walking in Labutans, doesn't he? Make me think. He looks like he's got high heels on. There's quite a wiggle on him. Yeah. Come on, Ray. Follow me and Stephen.

He's a big snobot. Is he? Is he? I suppose there must be just endless other dog smells, especially somewhere like this. Well yeah, and I was worried because he sniffed so much. And I spoke to this guy, Graham Hall, who does a shirt program called dogs behaving very badly. Which obviously Ray wouldn't be on. But he said to me, you must never stop them sniffing because that's dogs, that's how they get all their happiness hormones.

That's the equivalent of going on a two-week holiday for us. Because he's sniffing dogs that were there. Yeah. He can smell there. I don't want to say what you're smelling, Stephen, but... So I come running up this hill when I'm running. Oh, do you? And I try and run up this bit as fast as I can.

So I associate where we're standing now with severe pain. Well, there's another big boy on his way. Huge dog. He looks a bit big for Ray, so... Ray so always doing a poo pee. Look away Stephen. I'm not looking right and in fact I'm getting out of poo bag and poo bags are in your book as well you know poo bags are absolutely crucial turning point in the whole story yes because we won't say maybe we shouldn't say where they end up because it's a bit gross it is yeah which kids love well Lawrence who you know who does

the offending action with the poo bag, feels awful about it afterwards. We should say this is in Barry Save's Christmas Stephen's book. He's not just suddenly telling me an anecdote about a friend of his called Lawrence. No. Come here. So, your parents, that you were in, am I right in thinking you were sort of North London? So you were sort of Enfield or something? Yeah, I was born in Ponder's End.

And so you're at boarding school in London, though, aren't you? Hartford. It's Hartford. Yeah, between Hartford and Hodderson. So it's sort of half an hour, 40-minute drive maybe. Wouldn't you just think, oh, I just wish I could walk home? I wish I could go home. Well, yeah.

I mean, one of my cousins was at boarding school and tried running home one night and was picked up on the A-10, you know, having run about eight miles. And it did occur to me, but he'd already done that first. And I kind of, yeah, I mean, we got to go home every three and a half weeks. Right. And it's just ridiculous. Because, you know, there are 13, 14, 15-year-olds can be all, 13, 14, 15-year-olds. They can be all, I was very young and I was very small.

Hello. Hello. Now, this is a very friendly fella. Hello, darling. He's so friendly. Slightly. What's you do it? That is, Dexter.

Dexter. Dexter. Dexter doesn't mind the first day etiquette. Oh, Dexter. Bloody hell, Dexter. We should say Dexter is, what would you describe it as he's honping my leg? That's the lady in the tramp dog, isn't it? Dexter is kind of desperate to get at Ray.

Shall I put Ray down and then maybe Dexter will... And they think, yeah, that's better. Now we can actually sniff each other. They've calmed down a bit. I think Dexter just wanted to sniff. And I like the fact, Ray always seems just to stand there and let the sniffing happen to him. What is Dexter? Minisher snauzer snauzer.

Minicher snauzer's a great dog. eyebrows. Bye. Bye. See, I love that, Stephen. I like the exchanges with dog owners. I mean, you don't have a dog, we should say, do you? No, we did have one for a while.

My father-in-law wanted a dog, so we, because he was getting on, we said we would get the puppy and do the first six, eight months. We've got a Bedlington Terrier. Oh, they're cute dogs. And, yeah, so we had him for eight months and I absolutely loved it. I loved taking him out for walks. I loved meeting other dog owners. I love the whole thing.

I would have a dog in a heartbeat. Oh, what's Ray? Well, do you say this? But how are you feeling after spending time with Ray? Well, I mean, Ray, as I said, Ray has got... I'm going to pick you up. You're slowing us down. Stephen's an athletic man.

You're embarrassing. You're embarrassing. I think he's a bit like the Dalai Lama. He's got a been here before quality. Yeah. He's a bit like that character in Kung Fu Panda that Dustin Hoffman plays. My producer's laughing, because he's got two small kids.

Do you know the one I mean? He's a kind of guru. He's sort of wise, but also can break your legs if he wants to do a bit of kung fu on you. Well, at least he doesn't mount your legs like Dexter. Yeah, Dexter was oversell. Dexter was a bit of a sex pest. Dexter was not shy in coming forward.

So I should say, I should ask you actually, did your parents have pets when you were growing up? No, because mum was brought up in pretty extreme poverty really. No running water, no electricity, no, yes. And they had a sort of one room house for sex. room house for seven kids and it was basically two beds and a fireplace and that's where the whole family lived in that one small room and a one room cottage and I think there were chickens and

a lot of so I think when she got a house of her own I don't think she wanted to share it with animals because yeah so we had a cat called solo who's only allowed in certain bits of the house but other she wasn't particularly fond of the cat but she you know allowed us to have one And that was pretty much it. So, yeah, there were no pets growing up. My dad was really into dogs. They used to have dogs all the time in his house. I see Mr. Mangon with a dog.

Yeah, he was cool with dogs. So, no, my sister has a Portuguese rescue dog called Dusty. And Dusty makes a star return in the book, Dusty Cooper. That's my sister's married name is Cooper. And is that your sister, Anita, who illustrated it? Who illustrates the books? And I put a husband in as old man Cooper. There's a drawing of him.

I know, yeah. Just to slightly annoy him, I've made him really old with a grey flappy beard. He's not actually like that in real life. I thought he looked quite cool. Yeah, I mean, he does look cool in real life. So, you know, it backfired on me because I actually made him look more cool than... And you ended up going to Cambridge, didn't you? Yeah.

Was that a sense of huge joy in elation in the house? Oh my God, he's gotten to Cambridge. or was it kind of on the cards all along? No, it wasn't on the cards. All the reports at school were always, he's fairly bright, he doesn't work hard enough. So I think none of my teachers expecting me to get in.

But absolutely huge joy in elation. I think my parents were, I mean, completely thrilled. First person to go to university and their family and, you know, somehow I managed to get into Cambridge. So, yeah, it was really, yeah, they were really chuffering. to bits definitely and you did you decided to do law yeah was that because that felt like I'm laughing because I still can't believe I did it but I did yeah I did I did it

I did it because I had weird a partly because you know do something practical do something useful partly because I didn't think I could become an actor so what am I going to do if I'm not an actor did you secretly want to be an actor oh yeah I mean I would if if I thought it was an option I probably would have gone for it but they were just just where do you even start we didn't know any actors Yeah. It wasn't, it just felt like an impossibility. So, yeah.

And I did weird mixture of arts and science, A-levels. I did English and history and maths and further maths. So sort of right brain, left brain. And someone said, you know, be barrister, you get the law bit, you get the acting bit in court. So I was like, in the absence of anything, any better ideas, I thought I'd do law. But you don't get the emotion bit.

Well, this is it. Law sucks. The whole point. the law is to take the emotion out of the situation, look at it clinically and rationally. But the emotional bit is the interesting bit. I don't want to know what the precise definition of manslaughter is with murder. I want to know what it feels like, you know, to be lying there with someone standing over you with a gun. You know, what is that moment like? Yes. Not, you know, how do you quantify it legally?

And did you realise that when you were studying it? Oh, I knew within a month. Yeah. It wasn't for me. I knew really quickly. But again, I kind of stuck at it. I thought, I've come here, I've got in, I'm not going to, I'm going to do it, I'm going to get a degree. You had to. It was, as I believe Princess Diana's sister said to her the night before the wedding, too late now, your face is on the teetail. Which is one of the greatest quotes ever. Isn't that amazing?

But I think your face was on the teetail. Yeah, I mean, that was it. I got in, I couldn't possibly turn around and go, I'm throwing it all into George. the circus yeah plus I loved Cambridge is incredible I met amazing people the facilities for acting were fantastic but you didn't join footlights no I didn't join footlights was that because a part of you felt you were you were you sort of shy or a bit partly because footlights was all about comedy and sketch comedy whereas I was an actor so I wanted to do plays so you didn't know you were

funny at that point i didn't know i was funny or at least if i was funny i was going to be funny in a play rather than writing a sketch and standing on a stage and playing and doing that so and i went to an audition for the footlights and they were so cleaky and unwelcoming that i just didn't go back and just never thought about it again yeah but a lot of my friends who were there when i was there were in the footlights and have gone on to not just do comedy but also you know do a lot of a lot of them have been actors, so maybe it was a mistake, but I had a good time. I did 21 plays in three years when I was there, yeah. Are you quite sort of industrious? Do you apply yourself?

I reckon you do, because you've written, is it eight books now? I mean, I think the older I get, the harder I work, and I definitely now do. I work seven days a week, probably 14 or 15 hours a day, yeah. I just, you know, that feeling of time running out just gets more and more urgent. the older I get. It really does, doesn't it? Yeah. Plus that feeling that I think a lot of people

who are self-employed have that, you know, it might all end. The phone might stop ringing. I have to make the most of it now. Plus I've got three kids who need feeding. They're boys. I mean, we have to have truckloads of food brought to the house every week. So that needs taking care of.

But yeah, that feeling of like I want to get stuff done. I enjoy my work. love my work. I want to do as much of it as I can while I can. So yeah, I have definitely become more industrious and less lazy the older I've got. I was probably laziest in my 20s in that respect. But yeah, I've always wanted to get stuff done. I've always sort of got involved. You know, I'm, if something's going on that looks like fun, I want to be part of it. Yeah. I can see that. I can get that. I can get that. always got that sense from you you know because I think my mum was an actor and I

think I was always aware when I was growing up of that terrible you know in those days obviously you had to keep the phone free yes and my mom was always I keep the phone free my agent would be trying to call and my dad would always say alas he never does it's awful and so I was always had this sense which is why I was a child actor but I never went into it when I was older only because growing up with people that works in the business I had this real sense of but isn't that awful you can't control and back in those days I think it's really positive now that I think performers are more encouraged and understand that well I can be a children's author

yeah but it really was Stephen I always had the sense back then I'm an actor and this is what I do and I wait for the RSEC and not just that you know you're you're a pigeonholed you know if you're If you're a straight actor, you didn't do musicals. That was a whole separate branch. And if you went to do musicals in a way, you wouldn't be allowed to do straight stuff again. They were kind of kept apart. And the idea of being an actor who also wrote or presented shows on television,

that would have killed an acting career even 15, 20 years ago. But the world has changed, yeah. And I think people are much more open to the kind of crazy multi-hyphen-a, or however you want to describe it kind of career that I've ended up. I also think, if I'm really honest, my mum quite liked calling herself an actor and sitting around smoking silk cart and a dressing gown all day. It was a sort of vibe rather than an actual joke. You know, and she used to just say, I went to Rada.

She would tell everyone she went to Rada, but this gay stage manager friend of hers would say, your mother goes into the shop and says 20 Silt Kart and I went to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, which she did. Love it. But you know what, if I went to Rada, I'd be saying that, and you did go to Rada. I did, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What an amazing training that must have been.

It was. And it's so different from university, because the university is 10,000 students, 10,000 undergraduates, the university I went to, so you can find your gang amongst all, you know, eventually you find the people. At Rada, there were 30 people in my year. God, really?

Fifteen men, 15 women. And there were three years, so there was 90 students. So it's a totally different, environment, completely different training. I mean, at Cambridge it's all about, you know, it's an intellectual rigour. Yeah. And at Radi, it's all working on your body and your voice and your singing and you're acting. It was a, I mean, I was lucky, how lucky to have both. Yeah. Absolutely amazing. Well, I was, really, because you need a bit of luck to get into those sort of places. So many people apply. And I think,

But you made it happen and a lot of people would have probably ended up becoming a lawyer. Maybe. Maybe. I'm glad I didn't. I would have been a terrible lawyer. Should we get to coffee? Yeah. What would you like, Stephen? I'll have a flat white please. What do you want, Ray? I'm going to have the same as Stephen. I'll have what he's having. Ray won't have anything. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog.

If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week. Thank you.