Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Steve Backshall (Part One)

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

This week Emily and Ray are joined by the brilliant Steve Backshall, naturalist, explorer and presenter of the much-loved wildlife series Deadly 60.Steve grew up on a small farm surrounded by animals and went on to carve out an incredible career sharing his passion for the natural world. He talks to Emily about everything from hippos and snakes to Raymond’s more mysterious wolf-like habits, as well as life with his wife, Olympic rower Helen Glover.Steve also tells Emily about his upcoming Deadly Live UK arena tour, a spectacular, action-packed wildlife adventure, and his new book Deadly: My Ultimate Lethal Beasts, full of fascinating facts about the planet’s most extraordinary creatures.It’s an inspiring, joy-filled chat with one of Britain’s best-loved presenters, a man who may just have stolen Raymond’s heart.Head to Steve's website for tickets, books and beyond.Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's the weirdest animal poo you've ever seen, Steve? Blue whale. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I met up with naturalist explorer and presenter of the children's wildlife series Deadly 60, Steve Bactual. Steve is obviously someone who really connects with animals, so it won't surprise you to hear that Raymond took a shine to him. In fact, you're witnessing the birth of an epic bromance. but I'm afraid they had to put up with me crashing their date

because there was so much I wanted to chat to Steve about. Steve grew up on a small farm surrounded by animals and with parents who worked for British Airways, which also really inspired his love of adventure. He made his first travel documentary in his 20s, but it was his children's wildlife show Deadly 60 that propelled him into a career as one of our most well-loved wildlife presenters. Steve is fascinating company.

He's so knowledgeable about animals. I learnt about hippos, snakes, bats. He even traced some of Raymond's weird habits back to his wolf ancestors. Not sure wolves demand venison treats on a pink blanket, but I'll take your word for it, Steve. We also chatted about Steve's family life and meeting his wife, Olympic rower Helen Glover, as well as his first ever UK arena tour, Deadly Live,

which he's so excited about, and frankly so am I, because it's set to be an incredible action-packed wildlife experience filled with stunts, experiments and mind-blowing animal anecdotes. Steve will be coming to venues all over the country in October and November, so do get your tickets now at deadlylifetore.com. I also really recommend checking out his new book, Deadly, My Ultimate Lethal Beasts, packed with fascinating facts about the deadliest animals that have ever lived. No mention of Ray in there, by the way. Ray and I had the best time with Steve,

partly because he's got this very infectious positive energy and absolute passion for what he does, but also because he genuinely just adores being around animals and seems to bring out the best in them, which is why Raymond will be moving in with Steve and family with immediate effect. I'm sorry, Steve, his decision is final. Really hope you enjoy our chat. Here's Steve and Raymond. already, Steve Bachel, you're in charge. I'm sorry, I do have that kind of right. Where are we off to? It's like a military thing, isn't it?

We proceed in a northerly direction up the Gloucester Road for approximately 200 metres. Yeah, sorry about that. I feel really safe with you. Is that a compliment? Well, I mean, I think we're pretty safe. We're in Kensington. It's not like we're not like we're strolling the mean streets of half. Is it really? Or even in the rainforest or the jungle. But can I tell you that? I mean quite

quite seriously, I honestly believe that you would be more safe with me in a rainforest than we would be walking in a city street. And I definitely feel more safe in the rainforest than I ever would do in a city. Do you? Yeah. Why is that, Steve? Because people, people are so much more unpredictable and so much more frightening than any animal could ever be. And we have so many things here that, you know, could potentially be dangerous. You know, cars being number one, I've got three small kids. And the thing I'm most frightened of in the world is, it's traffic, it's cars. You know, that's the thing that I think is the biggest risk to them. If we were in the rainforest, there would be things that could make us uncomfortable. You know, there would be things that could

make us too hot, that could make us sweaty, that would get us, you know, covered in bug, but you know that's just that's just discomfort we can live with a bit of that so yeah I mean and also this just isn't my place I mean kind of you know look at me compared to everyone else around it I mean to look at you the the picture of sartorial elegance with your your gorgeous I mean your dog has a better haircut than me seriously we should say Steve did not disappoint me this morning he was I'm going to say you were very on brand well because he's staying this hotel because you're in London at the moment because you're here to chat to people about your tour which we're going to discuss and your book and all these exciting deadly projects and I turned

up at Steve's hotel this morning and I saw this figure coming outside in camouflage shorts great big sort of timbreland type walking boots I'm such a cliche aren't I but it was everything I wanted to see I'm very glad to hear that I mean if I'd have turned off and you'd have been in a pinstrived suit. I'm going to thought, what a ford. No, I mean, I've kind of spent my entire life, either dressed in my P-E kit or in stuff that I got from Army Surplus stores. And it's not really changing now. I mean, you get to my age and it's kind of, you know, yeah, I mean, you're lucky that I'm wearing shoes at all, to be honest, because most of the time I'm just wandering around barefoot, but I kind of figured that might be a little bit too far in

the middle of London. No, I quite like that, because I grew up in Australia. Did you? Yeah. Whereabouts? We're sitting in Sydney. Oh, lovely. So, well, we're going to talk about that because I've had a theory about why it's desensitised me to certain creepy crawlies. I think an Australian childhood is great for that.

Yes. So we're going to head over to Kensington Gardens and do a quick circuit with Raymond. I want to apologise for the fact that Raymond is not walking currently. It's because he's so slow and I'm going to let him off the lead in the park, but he will slowest.

What do you make of Raymond so far, Steve? Oh my gosh, he's absolutely adorable. What a character. And he seems to have taken to me a reason to be well as well. He really liked you, but then I think you have an affinity with animals. I would say I definitely have an affinity with dogs. So I completely grew up with dogs. I've had dogs my entire life.

And if you're a doggy person, then there are certain things that you do, certain ways that you hold yourself, certain ways that you approach a dog. dog that work and we you know everyone's seen someone who isn't familiar with dogs that has that slight nervousness about the way that they act and they move that dogs don't like and don't take to um a dog's like a lot of animals in that respect that yeah actually all if someone's calm and comfortable with them and confident yeah i think you know there is there's definitely such a thing as being good with animals and The majority of people that you meet who get a really positive reaction from animals

have been working with them for a long time and just have an ease around them, a kind of gentle, predictable way of moving, but also confidence about how you hold yourself as well. It's really important. Let's cross here, Steve. Yeah. I'm sorry about all these people.

I haven't got any crocodiles for you. Anyway, you were talking about feeling comfortable with animals. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that... So when we were kids, we were growing up, my sister was really, really into horses from when she was very, very young. And she wasn't massively into wildlife.

The horses were her thing. And the way that she deported herself around the horses meant that she never got hurt by them in our entire childhoods. Whereas I was a bit more nervous around them. And I didn't quite get them as much as she did. I spent a fraction of the amount of time with them and yet I got trampled and bitten

and kicked, and it was just because I wasn't as confident. I wasn't as at ease with them as she was. You know, if her little ex-wall pony, who was an absolute psychopath, turned around and tried to kick her, she'd kick him back. And, you know, he'd go, oh, right, okay, that puts me in my place. Whereas for me, you know, I would just have taken two who's in the stomach. Well, it's, you know, there's a, I can't.

remember what it is you'll know because you're a very cultured man and multilingual but there's a french expression which translates literally as comfortable in your skin oh something d'an peil or something and i love that expression because it's an energy that someone has where they come across as comfortable in their skin and i feel that's sort of what you have to have around animals because yeah that's very true i want to be around people that are comfortable in their own skin you know um We're heading over to the park now. Steve, welcome, by the way. I should welcome you. This is one of the most exciting episodes of Walking the Dog I've ever done because I adore this man. I'm such a huge fan. Raymond sometimes watches deadly six, Steve. What does he make of it?

Do you know what? And it doesn't show him in a good life, Steve. I think he's quite cruel because he enjoys it. He enjoys it when it's like we're watching a cheater and you're saying, she hasn't eaten for days. and I think he quite likes that. I think whenever he sees animals potentially in peril, he feels a lot of schildenfreude, I think. Oh my gosh, you are building up an incredibly complex character for your dog. I really do.

I really do. I ascribe a lot of human emotions to him. But what was your history with dogs, Steve? So you grew up in Bagshot, Surrey, and did you grow up with dogs? Yes, you were saying you did. Absolutely. Which dogs specifically? Did you have any? So we've always had rescued dogs. My first ever job, much younger than you'd be allowed to do it now, actually, was working for the RSPCA.

And I worked for the RSPCA in Chobham. And we got our, I think it was our second dog from there. And we, I've never had a pedigree in my whole life. They've always been rescued dogs. They've always been dogs. We've got a bit of this, bit of that, bit of the other. We have a Romanian rescue dog at the moment. and our attempt to find out what his genetics were was intriguing to say the least. For me, life has never been complete unless we've had a dog. And I think if you are a dog person,

you kind of understand that. And it sort of makes sense because our human connection to dogs goes back thousands. Some might argue tens of thousands of years. That's so true. And obviously, dogs also have this connection to wolves.

Yeah. And we're going to touch on your book, which I love, which I've just read, which is my ultimate deadly bee. Yes. And you refer to wolves in this. Yes. And I'm fascinated by wolves, Steve, because I find it so weird to think that Raymond is, he's descended from wolves, really, isn't he?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so in modern taxonomy, so that's the science that figures out kind of essentially what animals are and where they come from and what they're related to, most modern taxonomists would call Raymond canis lupus, that's wolf familiaris, so of the home or domesticated. Ray, you're canis lupus!

So some would call them canis familiaris, which would be a different species, but very closely related. Others would say that all of our modern breeds of dog are a subspecies of the wolf. I know it's quite a lot to get your head around, but it means that they essentially are wolves. And you know, you do get a good-sized breed of dog today.

It can interbreed with a wolf successfully. Yeah. I don't think Raymond could do that. I don't think Raymond could. I mean, you might want to cover his ears here, but I think if there was an attempt, it would probably end with, it would end badly for Raymond, let's put it that way. But yes, there's lots of ideas as to how it would originally have happened.

So when I see Raymond, sort of, because I always think, oh, I'm just imagining this. But honestly, Steve, he does some things like if I put clean sheets on the bed, he starts digging and burrowing. Yeah. Like he's making a nest. Like he's making a nest. Is that a wolf thing? That's exactly what he is. That is a wolfy throwback.

That's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Isn't that incredible? And also things like, he's a very docile good nature dog. But when he's playing with his very spurious, squirrel, he's tearing it to pieces. And he takes it into the corner as if I want it. I mean, I keep thinking, why would I be interested in that? Why are you hiding it from me? Well, it's because you are, you are the alpha in this relationship. You are, you are the head of the pack. And so he is bringing you

his, his, his kind of his fealty, his, yeah, his offerings, his present. Oh, do you know what, Steve, that's made my day. I know. And I want to talk. You talked to you a bit about your childhood. I want to talk about early Steve. Early Steve. Steve's origin story. Yes. I'm a bit obsessed with.

Because I love the sound of your parents, Steve. They're pretty amazing people. Yeah. They really are. Your parents sort of took advantage of the free travel they had access to with British Airways. Yeah. To kind of show you guys the world.

You and your sister, wasn't it? That's right. But it wasn't, let's have two weeks in a hotel, tell and never leave, you know, which to be honest, a lot of people do when they go abroad. They were very intrepid travellers, weren't they? Yeah, the more I go on through my life, the more impressed I am by how my mum and dad kind of led their younger lives. So they both came from working class origins. They didn't have a tremendous amount, but they knew that they wanted to see the world. And that was not an

opportunity that had been afforded to them. So they both, when they left school early, you know, they both left at sort of 16 and went to work for British Airways. And after a while, that gave them the ability to travel for a certain amount of the year for free. And they took my sister and I to some of the most wild, wind-swept, exotic places you could ever imagine. And the kind of travel we did, you know, was incredibly challenging. We were just literally rock up with backpacks on our back. We had nowhere that we had organised to stay or to sleep. And we'd just go out and wander around us,

wander around a developing world city by night, trying to find somewhere that would take us in for, you know, 50 pence a night. And they gave us the most extraordinary experiences. We went to Africa, to India, Sri Lanka, to South America. And we did it for a fraction of the cost of what we would have paid to go camping in Devon. Yeah. And I think their adventurous spirit, it is particularly put in sharp focus now because I'm a dad of three kids and I'm someone who

considers myself to be super adventurous but I wouldn't do that with my kids. It would be way too much like hard work. You know, the last thing it would be would be a holiday. So yeah, I'm so grateful for them for the opportunities they gave us when we were young and that also extended to the fact that they took on when I was about four years old a small holding which um, They took on with no idea of how to run the place and filled it with rescue animals from around the local area. And so we just had this wonderful, bizarre, thriving kind of cornucopia of weird, damaged animals all the way through our childhood.

It was just brilliant. How, God, what an incredible childhood. And so the small holding, I'm not in thinking, that's sort of a small piece of agroquite. cultural land essentially, is that it's not used for professional farming purposes. I think of it like the good life. Yeah, I mean, that's what we saw it as being like as well. You know, I mean, all of your sort of Gen Z listeners are going to be scrabbling for the

internet to try and find out what the good life was. Google it. I know, sorry, chat GP to it. But yeah, that's kind of exactly what it was like. My mum had this big self-sufficiency handbook that she found in a car boot sale, and she would just go through it and find out. how to help the goats give birth and how to how to milk the goats which I used to do before I went to school in the morning and yeah I mean fair play to them both what are

your parents names Pat and Dave I love Pat and Dave yeah very very special people are and Dave still with us they are still with us yeah oh that makes me so happy yeah they must be so proud of you Steve yeah I mean I I I guess it's tricky, isn't it? Because, you know, I've done all of the kind of things that I've done and achieved in my life. My sister has spent most of her life working as a nurse in pediatric oncology. So working, you know, with kids who have cancer. And I make me cry. I know. I couldn't do her job for a day. It really makes me cry when someone is that kind. So it kind of puts, you know what I mean. Exactly. So it puts into very sharp focus what I do for a living, which is essentially having a laugh and doing all the stuff that I

really want to do. But you know what? But you know what? doing that. It must be so proud of both of you because what that sounds to me like anyone who goes into nursing, it's a vocation. Yes, exactly. Let's face it, you don't do it for the money in the hour. No, that's quite right. You do it because you have a passion for helping people and you're empathetic. Yep. And so I know that she followed her passion. Yeah. I can tell that you followed yours. So to have two children who both ended up following their passions and doing something they love that I think you can consider yourself a success as parents. Yes, I think I would agree.

Now, we've just reached. Ah, here we go. We're in the park. Do you know, Steve, I could see you almost exhale when we got into nature. Yeah, I quite literally did. You did. Yeah. Like as soon as he left the cars in the city and we stepped into the park, I saw your

shoulders relax. As did your sound recordists? That's an old pro. Now, we've reached a coffee bowl. Can I get you a coffee? Oh my gosh, seriously. Oh, come on there. Oh, he's doing this poo.

Now, if anyone was not going to be squeamish about this, I know a man here. It is me. What's the weirdest animal poo you've ever seen, Steve? Blue whale. So, the most amazing thing about blue whale poo is that they feed almost entirely on krill, which is kind of like a shrimp that occurs in vast quantities and clouds. Could be the most numerous animal on the planet. And they are filled with particular substances that are bright pink.

So when a blue whale poo comes out, it's like makeup. It's like bright fluorescent pink makeup. And if it wasn't for the intense fishy smell, then you could pretty much use it as lipstick. Oh my God. And it goes in these big streams across the wall. I bet it looks kind of beautiful in a way. Well, I mean, I found it very surprising. Yeah, for sure.

Right, Ray. I'm going to put your lead on because you can't just go where you fancy. So, little Steve, I'm getting this impression of a character who's very into animals. Yep. Um, from a very young age. And you're obviously an incredibly good communicator. Was that evident? evident. Were you always, were you an extrovert? Were you popular at school? Do you know what? I,

I, despite all of my, my halcyan memories, there were a lot of elements of my, particularly school life that weren't good. So, you know, I had this very, very particular, I mean, if I was Liam Leeson, I would say that I had a very specific set of skills, but I had a love for, I'd like to get off this, I'd like to go more off the beaten, with you because I think you prefer wildlife to the big boulevard. That's very true. Yeah. Go on. So I had my particular fascination. I had the thing that made me happy, but I was in quite a rough, comprehensive school where I could never have admitted that. You know, the kids would never have gone for, what do you do over a weekend? Well, I love going out into the woods and going,

seeing if I can stalk deer and going looking for, I mean, I would have been beaten senseless. So for a big portion of my childhood, I just kind of hid it. all of that and, you know, tried to be one of the boys and didn't do it very well. So I suffered with bullying, with, you know, not having a good close friendship group. And it wasn't really until I left school behind that I started to rediscover all the things that had always made me happy that I'd lost sight of. And I, you know, I just, I think one of the most important things that I can do now is I have this opportunity to talk to a lot of young people. I really want to give them the opportunity to embrace who they are

the things that really do make them happy. And not to be ashamed of it, not to try and put themselves into boxes that have been created by anybody else, because I could have been the world's happiest child, and often I wasn't. And it was, you know, for reasons that they're a bit of a shame, really. Yeah. And that's so interesting what you say about, you know, it's a form of masking in a way.

It's a form of, you know, it's performing, isn't it? Exactly, yeah. These are what these kids like. I suspect a lot of us, if you look back at your childhood, a lot of people would recognise that what you're saying, you know, because it's that awful pressure to conform when you're a kid. And how, what do you think, going to university then, that sounds like quite a big thing for you, because you ended up doing, but you ended up doing English, which is really interesting to me. Very good university, was at Exeter.

That's right, yeah. So, why do you think you resisted doing, you know, some sort of science degree or, oh, look, we've just had a friend. Oh, hello. Hello, friend. And... Two friends. I wonder how that... I find the social dynamics fascinating between dogs, too.

Like you say, it's so comparable to humans, isn't it? It really is. Sometimes you can see the little social rejection on their face. Do you know what I mean? Oh, look, I think this is a shih Tzu. Hello! So, yeah, so why do you think you ended up doing English? Well, because it was what I found easy.

I know it sounds really, really sad, but at the same time, you know, the things that I learnt doing that degree have given me so much in my ability to be a communicator and to be a writer and all those sorts of things. And actually, you know, my brain is not a scientific one. I find maths very hard. I find stats very hard. And when I went back to do my biology degree and then going on to do my masters and, you know, to become a lecturer. in science. It was the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. And that's another thing I've got to say to young people is don't ever think that you've set yourself on a path that you cannot shy away from. But you know what I also think, Steve? You know, I did English. And if I'm really honest, I'd always been obsessed with books and reading. A friend of my dad's once said, don't do English, it will kill your love of literature.

Because you'll see it as, you'll have to read like three novels a night as you get towards your finals or whatever. And you'll start to see it as a chore. And he wasn't wrong in some ways. No, that is definitely true. I mean, I've rediscovered my love of reading since. Yeah. But, you know, also it's a big part of my job.

And most of the reading I do is scientific papers and is, you know, guidebooks of particular kinds of animals. I'm probably the only person in the world that has more than a hundred books on snakes. Nothing else, just snakes. Really? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, there's there are other reasons why, you know, reading. You've got to rediscover reading as a pleasure, haven't you?

And you're so, so right, going through my English degree when you might have to read the fairy queen or the Canterbury Tales in a week. Christram Shandy. Yeah. And it can, it can really take the idea. off your love of reading. But, you know, one of the reasons why it was such a, um, an obvious choice for me to do English. Oh, I love Steve. He just picked up rubbish. Oh, I love Steve. Um, was because reading, you know, I read like lightning. I, I read a whole book on the train yesterday. I'll read a whole book on the, on the, on the way home. And, you know, it's, it's a,

it's an, it's an, it's an amazing joy. So you ended up working, which I think was a really brilliant route into your chosen career, because you started working for rough guides, the travel guides, which is great, because that combined your skills, which was, you know, or your skill set or your qualifications, you were good with words and writing. But secretly you're thinking, oh, this is a handy way into what I really want to do. And then you got my favourite job of all. You know what I'm going to say, Steve.

Is it adventurer in residence? Isn't that the coolest job title in history? Yeah, I came up with an idea for a television program. I got myself a video camera, used my dad's free tickets to get out to Columbia, and I spent about six weeks there, filming myself in the jungle, catching snakes and spiders and scorpions and living rough,

and I made it into a film and sold it to National Geographic. That was in 1998, And they took not only the film, but they took me on as an adventurer in, well, the adventurer in residence, which I did for five years with them. And they were some very, very special years. You know, I'd spent a lot of time struggling, working in bars and markets and in pubs and things to just get enough money to pay the bills. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I was travelling the world on National Geographic's coin. It was, yeah, really special.

time. But it's interesting that you did that yourself. So this is pre, you know, the social media age where you decided I'm going to make this, I'm going to film something, I'm going to get off my ass, I'm going to go over there, and then I'm going to sell it to them. Yeah. I'm not going to sit there saying, can I have a job? I really want to work for you. And that, I think, tells me quite a lot about you. Do you know what? I think it's actually, it's a very very, it's a very modern way of getting into the media. So it is what I see now from a lot of people who are, you know, essentially becoming influencers, going out, making their own stuff, what we would call content now, going out, making their own content, putting out on social media,

and, you know, creating things under their own drive to their own narrative. And, you know, that's what I did, like, 20, 27 years ago. Well, it's like Sam Ryder, you know, that was his approach to music, wasn't it? It's like, I'm just going to put this stuff out on TikTok, and then he becomes a star, and he enters Eurovision. And I think, I love that. I love that work ethic that goes along with that. I think it's very impressive, but I think it's unusual to have had it back then, because most of us did have that sense of, we better wait until someone gives us a job. But what I'm saying is that suggests someone with a strong entrepreneurial streak.

Would you say that's true of you? Well, I mean, I think I have a huge amount of ideas. I'm a super, super creative person. I've got ideas popping all the time. The one reason I wouldn't use the word entrepreneur is that I'm abominable with money and business and anything to do. Yeah, I'm hopeless, just hopeless. Does Helen? She's worse.

Yes. I love you and Helen. I love you and Helen. You're my son of people. So do you just, when you say, are you disorganised? It depends in what. If you were to sort of come into my expedition room where I have all of my kit for expeditions, everything is perfectly organised and numbered in exactly the right box,

all ready to roll the second I head off on an expedition. if you were to look at just about any other element of my life. Yes, a catastrophe. And Helen's the same, you know. She can put together. Olympic rowing, by the way. Yeah. She can put together an Olympic rowing program.

She can train three times a day. She can organise all of that. She is the messiest human being I've ever seen by some stretch. That makes all of us feel so much better. Because we look at you guys and think, oh my God, the pinnacle of human achievement in each respect. and then you think, oh no, they're just as chaotic and all over the place as us. It's worse. Worse, considerably worse. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog.

If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.