Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Stuart Goldsmith (Part Two)

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

We’re back in Regent’s Park with Stuart Goldsmith! Stuart tells us all about how his love of the Edinburgh Fringe, how he feels about vulnerability in comedy and how he deals with comparing himself with his peers. We also discuss Stuart’s new obsession - using stand up comedy to talk about the climate. Stuart tells us why he’s chosen to tackle such a scary, complicated subject in his comedy - and why it might just be the best way to communicate a very crucial message. Follow @stuartgoldsmithcomedy on InstagramYou can read all about Stuart’s work and keep up to date with his upcoming live dates at https://www.stuartgoldsmith.com/ Watch Stuart’s recent appearance on Live At The Apollo here! You can listen to The Comedian’s Comedian on all podcast platforms! Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with comedian Stuart Goldsmith. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already. And if you want to go and see Stuart Live, you can find out more at Stuartgoldsmith.com. And do, by the way, listen to his brilliant podcast, The Comedians Comedian. I'd also love it if you gave us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week.

Here's Stuart and Ray Reh. And so just in terms of how things happened, you were doing all the street performing and then did you start just doing Edinburgh after that? Was it? Yes, I, well, through Edinburgh, I discovered that comedy was much more doable. I think I always wanted to be a comic, and I was just terrified of the idea of being heckled. I was like, I can look at it now and go, I wanted approval,

and I'd heard that people could disapprove publicly in one go in a funny way where everyone laughed at you and they hated you, and I thought, oh, I'm not going to do that then. In terms of discounted it as a possibility. And then through going to Edinburgh, feeling funny, feeling professionally funny, feeling like funny enough to be worth people paying me and then spending all of the money I made at the Edinburgh shows on tickets for stand-up shows so I've been to 30 odd I think this year's 31 Edinburgh's I just it's just it's just heaven for me I love it and I race around my friend called me Billy Fringe Guide because I'm always running

from one gig to another go to desperate I thought all comics would do that and I'm like no most comics do their show and then relax or have a pint or do something else or I'm like can I get in nine shows a day can I fit in nine shows a day and my own one So all of this constant sort of joy and buzz and inspiration and ideas all over the place I love all of that and so I got really hooked into it at Edinburgh so as a street performer became a comic whilst being a street performer

and then the street just kind of dropped off as I as I just kind of went I just for it wasn't novel anymore it wasn't novel anymore I kind of went I know what this is I know what the thing is I'm not I could commit to it my friend Pete Peter Anderson he performs as unstable acts

and he's this incredible street performer and his show is so finely-tooled, so original, so precise, so brilliant, but I couldn't do it for as long as he's been doing it. I feel like there's a world out there in which a version of me has just an unbelievable roadblock street show, but I'm like, that's not,

that wouldn't hold my interest for long enough. So I basically, short answer, I got bored of street performing and started doing comedy and got that as a new obsession. I went on to have a really successful career and I think it's that thing where you have to remind yourself, Stuart, sometimes, don't you? Because, and look, we all do it.

Sometimes, because it's very easy, you know, you'll compare yourself to other people who think, why didn't I get that? Why isn't that happening? And then you think, sometimes on a day like today, I think, I've always wanted to meet Stuart. I love his work and what a privilege to be in the sunshine with my dog, meeting someone who I really admire. It's that thing of, well, it's appreciation, isn't it?

and understanding that you can't lose sight of that, you sort of make a choice and you think, well, do I want to spend my days doing what I want to do? Which it sounds like that's what you're very much doing. Well, this is some Pete wisdom. This is my friend Pete years ago. He said, you know, you might want to be a sort of rich and famous successful comedian or rock star or actor,

whatever the dream is. Instead of trying to be that, why don't you just start living the life that they have? You know, like what is it that you want about that? why don't you just start doing that? I was sort of thinking, well, what I'd want is sort of creative options. I'd want to be able to do whatever project I want to do. All of freedom, all that stuff.

And I just kind of, if something clicked and I went, well, I've got all that. I'm really happy. So, you know, so I do feel, like, obviously, constantly comedians compare ourselves to others. And I have to say, a wonderful byproduct of my new obsession, which is comedy about the climate crisis, is that that has completely dispelled loads of, of those. I was on the way to getting over them anyway. You don't kind of, you know, it's particularly hard, it must be the same for you, working in presenting, working in writing, anything in the public eye. Like if you're a plumber, there'll be better plumbers than you

out there, but you won't encounter them. Because if you're a comedian, every time you look at YouTube, an advert for your mate's face pops up, you know what, all this kind of stuff. And so you're constantly being reminded of, being reminded of all of your peers and friends' enormous glittering success. It takes a lot to get over that and go, oh, this is for, fine, it's fine, I'm pleased for them. And years ago I started doing a thing of when I saw someone and I felt jealous of someone who I love doing really well, I just text them and say, oh, saw you did this, well done, I'm so jealous. And chances are you get a text back saying, oh, thank God, guys.

Oh, I'm so glad you think so because it was such a stress and all the rest of it. Oh, yes, because you're a three-dimensional person. And not just the avatar of my self-loathing or envy or whatever it is, you know. Self-loading is too strong. But what's interesting to me, and you talk about this a lot on your podcast, and this honesty because comedians you know there's a level of honesty with comedians which you simply don't get elsewhere

and you tell that anecdote you know you'll say as an example you'll text a friend if you're feeling jealous and you'll actually say oh I'm so jealous so that is sort of taking ownership of that as well and I really like that because what happens is as soon as you put it out there it's not toxic anymore and that's why I kind of

comics can drive you mad I'm friends with a lot of them but I will always come back to them because of their honesty. There's an integrity about it which I'm so drawn to. Yes, that's interesting. It's nice to hear nice things said about comics. I love comics. I think either the writers are comic to go, God, aren't we all awful? Do you know what I think I've earned that?

I've done enough stage time and done enough road trips all the rest of it to go, comics, ugh, you know, but from an informed sort of a perspective. I think that, you know, they are. I don't think there is a sort of homogenised, like that's what comics are like. But I'm interested in other people's sort of an outside view of comedians, because all, I think, almost all of my closest friends are performers and often funny performers of one sort or another. So to me, that's just normal.

And I really love it. But I think also when you talk about failure, a lot of people talk about failure, it's become more common to talk about it now. But I'm interested that a lot of people will talk about failure, but it's often from the perspective of what befell me. This thing happened to me. I hear comics talking about it, and it's they are the villain of the anecdote.

They are, I did this stupid thing. Yes. And that takes a whole other level of honesty and vulnerability. Yes. Yes, I think that in particular about clowns, if you see clowning like Natalie Palomides or Zach Zucker or Dr. Brown or something. Oh, I went to a circus school. Oh I went to circus school. We did a tini's years ago. It was only a one-year course.

Clown's frightened, were you a good clown? I was not a good clown. And this is what I'm getting to. The reason I am too, like that honesty you're talking about comics have. Some comics have. Some of us are just good at faking it. But I think clowns really have it. And I think I've kind of clocked now the reason I was never good at clowning. And you know, clowning is all about failure and failure. And even more so, I think it's much, much harder than street performing or stand-up really. clowning not in a kind of red-nosed in a circus kind of way but in a sort of a theatre clowning way where you're improvising and responding to an audience and not necessarily speaking not necessarily not speaking,

those sorts of that sort of sphere I think what you need is the ability to be the person who, if you farted in a lift, to say, that was me, that was me everyone, sorry. Like if you're comfortable with that, I think you'll make a good clown because you need to really accept your failings. I think you need to accept

your failings. You need to go, Here I genuinely am warts and all. Lots of comics, lots of media people are good at presenting a curated selection of their failures. Do I mean? Like this is, oh me, I'm just like this, you know. And you start going, that's not actual vulnerability, isn't it? That's just a sort of shiny, polished version of your mediated vulnerability that I noticed. Well, saying I'm jealous.

Go on. That is genuine vulnerability. Yes, for sure. That is. Yeah. That is an example of genuine. And very few people would say, if they're talking about failure, I was really jealous. of so and so. Sure, sure.

But I think when you talk about that clown thing, I think what's interesting is that sounds Frank Skinner, who I work with, that's him. I mean, I've never, it's like when we were fired from Absolute Radio, we know the drill. Yeah. You say, and they give us the opportunity to, you say, after 10 glorious years,

we've decided this time. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And Frank, I mean, Frank Skinner's not going to do that. Sure. So, of course, because he runs headlong towards any opportunity, to be honest to the point. So he just says, well, we'd be quiet.

I didn't want to go. I'm gutted. Yes, you know. And when we started a podcast, the first thing he said was, well, let's face it, was either this or panto. So that is... Yes, but saying the unspoken truth. Right.

I love that about comedy. I love saying what's the thing in the room that we're all thinking that no one's saying. I love that. Of course, of course. That's just like such a kind of part of their in the bones nature of... comedy. And you do it. Like with that guy, the dog walker that we met who may or may not appear on the podcast because of the names he gave to all his things. But like he, it was so funny. You said, oh, how is being a dog walker? And he said something like, oh, it's really hard. It's really

hard. And everyone, all of us thought, oh, he's got some sort of problem with this. Like someone clearly has said to him in the past, oh, that must be an easy job. And he's resisting it. And we all thought that, but none of us said it. So do you know, like that? I love, absolutely love that. It was really interesting. When you were interviewing, one of my favourites you've done is with Stuart Lee. And you said, and I love how honest you are. I think I know what you're going to say. You basically say, I was a bit frightened. Yes, 100%. I was so pleased I said that to him because I thought, how can I tackle this titan of comedy who is, he's just, everyone knows he's the best.

I think everyone knows he or he has been the best, he's capable of being the best. There's probably, you know, there's a top ten, you know. But he's so, so good and so he informed my comedy understanding. I used to watch him when I was a teenager, Ingle and Herring, all of that stuff. I do feel intimidated. He is also known to have upset and hurt comedians, some of them friends of mine, with his kind of lacerating wit, that he then is this sort of question over whether he takes responsibility for that or whether it was the character of Stuart Lee.

It's very complex. So honestly, to be in front of him and say, I'm kind of scared to talk to you in case you then later put something I say in a piece of stand-up that goes on a DVD or on a special. You do an impression of me and you go, well, it's a bit like the comedian, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? He thinks she's a comedian's comedian or whatever. And I said, so I'm a bit frightened of that. And he sort of giggled and he's got a very sort of disarming giggle. And he giggled and he said, yeah, yeah, I might do that. Yeah. That's not. And there was a very honest moment. But it's lovely to me that I guessed what that moment was on it. Yeah, that was the best bit, wasn't it?

the bit where I thought Bill Burr might punch me. That was almost the best bit, isn't it? But again, vulnerability was the key to that. Yes. Because you're saying, I'm frightened of you because you're high status. Yes. That's not why. But it's almost an acknowledgement that he has the power to hurt you emotionally, if you like.

I feel like I'm in the best group therapy session. I can tell you've had therapy. Well, I think, and you probably do this as well, because you're good at, like, I'm saying things I don't normally say and what have you. part of my interviewer brain, I'm trying not to say out, so as not to spoil the flow. I'm trying not to overuse the sentence, oh, that's a good question. Yes, I'd have said that. You know, because I can sort of see the moves. Like, this is a real and honest and authentic conversation, but we are both making decisions and we're both aware of them, you know. For the benefit of the listener, Emily has creased up.

Because I've accurately called her out. Louisa Omulan was on the podcast once and she said she got some issue with her dad. and I can't remember, I just kind of looked at her and I might have just like let my hand fall open slightly as I said, give me a bit more and she went, Stuart's just let his hand fall open slightly to say give me a bit more and he isn't speaking and I was like, oh shit, you got me.

But one of those things that I think I do well on the podcast. Oh, little baby. A sound you'll be familiar with. We're live, we're live people. I'll tell you what, the sound of someone else's baby crying is genuinely relaxing to a parent. You're like, oh, that's not my department. Love it.

Actually, what I want to talk to you about is what you've, the sort of area you've moved into more recently with your comedy, which is you are officially a climate comedian now. Is that right? Well, yes. Yes, but a qualified yes. Like, on the surface of it, 100%. It's all I talk about now.

I did two gigs last night. All I talked about was the climate and how the climate interacts with our lives and what I have you. So definitely yes. I also am aware as I find out more and more about the climate. And it's been like three or four years now. So I'm completely subsumed in it. I'm obsessed with it.

And it came along and rekindled my love for stand-up. When I think I was starting to get a bit like I did with street performing, I was a bit like, oh, I need novelty and new experiences. And this is like, this isn't sustaining me anymore. Just doing, I was doing material I cared about my kids, my mental health, that kind of stuff. But I kind of got really bitten by this. bug of going, oh, I want to scale this unscalable wall of how do you talk about the climate crisis in a comedy club on a Friday night when people aren't expecting it? How the, can I swear?

Of course. Fuck do you do that. How do you do that? So I'm really, really hooked on that. The reason I say it's a qualified yes is in order to have the most impact on people, as I've discovered more about how to communicate about the climate. One of the ways that you have to communicate about it, it's not that you have to be sneaky, it's just that even bringing up the climate

has probably made half of your listeners at least consider going, I might skip to the next one. Where's the skip advert button or whatever it is? Because it is such a complicated, frightening topic and it feels like, at the best it feels like homework. Even if you're an opted-in

climate person, it can feel like hand-ringing earnest homework. One of the tactics of communicating about it is not to talk about the climate, but to talk about how much money you're saving from your solar panels or how cool your EV is or the, you know, just to ostentatiously use a reusable bottle and a reusable cup and stuff like that. So one of the tactics is not to mention climate. So I've discovered that fairly recently kind of following the work of some of my favorite climate communicators. So as a result, I'm like, oh God, no, I've just branded myself. the climate comedian. So there's a tension for me, there's a sort of an elasticity between whether I, here's the thing. When I, in 2023, I did a show at Edinburgh called spoilers, which was like a nakedly,

this is an hour about me encountering the climate crisis. It did really well. It's very lorded and hugely important to me and really confirmed what I'm trying to do on this kind of climate track. But in the run-up to it, I thought, what do I call it? What the hell am I going to call it? Do I call it my big fat climate comedy show? That would be a very easy flyer not to take, wouldn't it? That would be an easy thing to opt out of. If I call it my big fat climate or whatever, will the audience just be nice, older couples in North Face and crusty hippie yogget readers? Yeah? Will it just be that? I don't really want to specifically niche down into that audience. I want it to be for everyone. I think that's what the climate conversation needs is to really explode and go mainstream.

So what the hell do I call it? And in the end I settled on spoilers, which is like a pun on like I'm giving away what happens at the end because I'm talking about like the end of the world, three question marks. And that was that. And then what I've since realized is that that question, what should I call my comedy show about the climate, is pretty much a sort of distillate version of the whole question about communicating about the climate. What do we call it? How do we talk about the climate without saying the word climate? How do you get people engaged and interested and energized? And how do you move them from complacent to concerned and concerned to alarmed and alarmed to taking action?

With this phenomenal scale challenge without... mentioning the sea word. The sea word. Or without sort of getting... You know, I spoke to someone who does a big climate show who said, oh, we're thinking about taking the word climate out of it. So how do you do it? It's like advertising periods on TV in the 70s. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't say the thing. You know, all the amounts of, you see now those old kind of black and white classified ads for a ladies massager, which is clearly a vibrating delto, which is like, you know, cock shaped.

And they're like, I just know this on my neck to relax, because everyone knows what we're talking about. You know, it is a bit like that. You've got to work out. I've got to work out how to do it. And it's. But then it's interesting. I find this fascinating because isn't that what all comedy does? So actually, you know, Chris Rock has educated me about race from his perspective. Yeah, for sure. He's done it via comedy and stealth. And it's more memorable because it's funny. Because all that material he does on, you know, cash points or whatever.

Or, you know, when he's talking about men and women. And I remember that because comedy's truth, but comedy is memorable. Yes. And so when you're talking about, you know, climate change, hopefully the idea is that that will stick with people. It will resonate more because you remember funny things. Yes, absolutely. So the bit of material at the moment,

a new bit for this show that I'm doing like a work in progress at Edinburgh this year. And one of the bits I'm, I feel like, I'm proud of loads of it, but this bit I think embodies in quite a short way what I'm trying to do is I've got a bit about how I feel like I'm going to end up turning vegan against my will. And I'm bitterly resent it. I don't want to be vegan. But if I end up vegan, it'll be not because of the ethics, but because the inefficiencies of the land use driving up the wall.

And the joke is, and it's a true fact, if you just get someone to switch from beef to pork, you can reduce their food emissions by 20%. Is that true? Beef is an extraordinary problem. Beef is unbelievable. Can I just say, Faye the producer, who is... I'm vegetarian.

That's why. Great job. She knows. That is life-changing. I did not know that. It's colossal. Beef is a colossal problem. If you see a map of America, for example,

of how much land is given over to what. I saw this incredible map where each little cube is, you know, a square whatever, I'm not a big numbers guy, but it's like a visual representation. This enormous block in the middle of America is beef. Yeah? And it's not just the beef, it's not just the land for grazing, it's the land that is cut down, where, you know, trees are cut down, deforestation, or it's land that's used to grow crops like corn or soy

to feed to the cows rather than feeding it to people. So if we just stopped eating beef, that would have a massive impact. Absolutely colossal. If everyone stopped eating it. Absolutely colossal. But the joke in the show is that if you, if I say to them, you can reduce your food emissions by 20% by switching just from beef to pork.

Yeah. So you know what this means is if I can convince five of you to do that, then I don't have to be vegan. So do you know what I mean? It comes from a perspective of I am not perfect. I'm constantly throwing myself under the bus, like exploring and exposing my own hypocrisy. Because there is no way to live a perfectly carbon-free, guilt-free life. You can do all the things you need to, but maybe you can change your bank.

That's the other huge, huge impact thing people can do. Every 10 grand you've got in a bank that isn't basically triodos, that's like the one shining right of a bank. Every 10 grand you've got in the bank, and that's your mortgage, your pension, your savings, is the equivalent of flying London to New York round trip 11 times a year. Because it's all being invested in fossil fuels. So, change, like, go vegan.

If you can't bear it going vegan, go vegetarian. If you can't be vegetarian, just quit beef. If you can't do any of that, change your bank. If you can't change your bank, stop using a wood burner. If you... Please stop using a wood burner. That is one hill I'm going to die on. I've become obsessed because I live in a particular part of North London

where those things are very fashionable. People all got them to go with their fow and ball and everything. And I've started, I've become that lunatic woman. Isn't it funny how it gets like that? When it personally affects you? Sure. And so because of my dog. Because he started, he was really, I could see he was struggling with it.

I go out there at night in my street and it's like... Block up all the chimneys. I honestly expect some Victorian man in a top hat with a doctor's bag. It's a leap, it's so foggy and you can just almost see it. It's like arriving in LA in the 80s. So I've started becoming so angry about it because I think this is just, this is just because you want your house to look like something at an interior's magazine. You don't need it.

Yeah. Are they bad word burners? burners? Yes, they produce polycyclical aromatic hydrocarbons and I've spent a lot of time rehearsing how to say that so I say it as often as I can. And basically they not only are they bad for the climate, they also produce particulate matter which is like tiny little particles. They do something complicated with water vapour, that's bad as well.

But they cause cancer and they're worse than lorries. Why are they being bad? Yeah, well, yeah, they should be. But again, it's a political problem. 90% of climate problems are political problems, not technological problems. Right. So what that means is we've got most of the technology we need to fix the climate crisis. In the same way that we've got, you know, butter mountains and mountains of food and hungry people.

That's a political problem, not a problem of we don't have a big enough van. What's so fascinating to me is you're right, I'll be totally honest, Stuart Lee interview style. I am a bit turned off by the subject. Sure. And then as soon as you start talking about it, as soon as you start talking about it, I feel fascinated and very invested. And that's probably the first time I've ever spoken to someone. I'm so thrilled to hear that because at the same time,

I was just about to apologise for getting on my soapbox. I've just done loads of facts at you because I've got all passionate about it. I've got to constantly check myself and go, don't sound mad. Because the question for me, how to most effectively communicate this stuff, like the driving force for me was three months before COVID, beginning of 2020. I just noticed tiny little articles about this thing called coronavirus. And I watched over the next few months as they got closer and closer to the front page. And I thought, I just think this is going to go.

I think this is going to be something big. And Wallop, it became massive. And I've been doing the same thing with the climate crisis for a long time, watching it creep closer and closer to the front page. Nostra Goldsmith. I'm not saying that I have a special ability to predict the future. I'm just saying that for me I went I think a lot of people have a sort of blissful it'll never happen to me quality which of course with a hundred percent yeah and I don't know whether oh god I've never considered this I the last time the last thing about which I used to say people feel blissfully it'll never happen to me was about car accidents I've always been a nervous passenger because having been in a car in more than one car accident one very serious one I felt like God people

drive like idiots and it's because they've never had a crash. So like admittedly I'm hypervigilant and a bit more predisposed to worry about things going wrong but at the same time 99.9% of scientists agree that unless we reduce our carbon emissions by 40% by the end of the decade we're in serious trouble and we're currently predicted a 10% rise and that's a huge huge problem which sitting in glorious Regents Park we are blissfully unaffected by so it's so easy to go That seems complicated and boring and scary and I'll think about something else. I'd quite like a coffee.

It's very easy to do that. It's very easy to do that. It's very easy to do that. You know, in poverty and people are like, I remember because I grew up with my parents, I mean, they would have been dismissed as champagne socialists now, although my dad always said, no, no, Claret's socialist. We didn't think champagne. But they were your classic, yeah, they'd be called liberal elites now, I guess.

They worked in the arts and they were very left wing. But I remember encountering at university, and I remember, it's that weird thing of what you're raised with, isn't it? And I remember this girl was saying, well, most people can cope. Most people are better off. So my dad always says, and you know you get to those my dad conversations. My dad says, you know, you just need to vote for what's best for you. And I said, oh, but my dad says you have to vote for the best for everyone else.

And now I realize that sounds so pious. And do you feel, because you're discussing, something which is incredibly important, but there is that, you know, you're a comic and you don't want to come across as, look, I'm a good person. Totally. And you're all assholes. Totally. So I'm always, I always begin with what an asshole I am.

I always begin with that, with climate stuff. And it is, it's a huge learning process for me because I'm trying to work out how do we communicate about this. And so I'm listening to some of the best scientists and some of the best neuroscientists and some of the best communicators. And no one is an expert in all of it because it's all so completely confusing and complicated. But I think that the, the, the, The biggest thing that anyone can do, almost without taking any action, is just talk about it.

Talk about, have conversations with it, have conversations with people in your life. One of the things I've got to do much more of is saying to people who work in, who run comedy clubs, you've got throw away, you know, disposable plastic cups. Are you recycling them? Wouldn't it be better if you had like hardware plastic ones like they have at Glastonbury now where you go, that is a reusable cup that we wash and reuse? It does change your life though, doesn't it? Like my friend bought me a Stanley Cup and I thought, oh, this is ridiculous.

It's just like, she actually said to me, she goes, it's getting a bit embarrassing you don't have one. So I've got the Stanley. This is another world, everything. So I've got the Stanley. But you know what? I do feel better now I've got it because I think, well, what would I have done before? I would have bought a bottle of water every single time I went out? Yes.

Yes, just to be a little bit intentional. It requires almost no effort to decide for yourself, I'm not going to do. plastic water bottles, I'm going to carry one of these. The joke I say in the show is this one is made of reclaimed ocean plastic, which is great because at the end of its life, you can go back up to the ocean, just fuck it back in. So, but again, it's like

that's a silly joke about a water bottle, but it allows me to say, that's a funny idea, isn't it? Why don't we just never use disposable plastic water bottles again? If you have the option, like, and there's also there are elements like, don't beat yourself up. Make a rule that I'm going to, I'm going to not use those things

or, but, you know, you make that rule for yourself. But if you break it, it's not the end of the world, just try. That's that thing about meat, you know, just have a meat-free Monday. Oh, I really? Just find out how easy it is to just make a tiny, tiny little challenge. It's totally put me off. I don't eat that much beef, but it's really put me off now. Okay.

My mate, Tim's a beef flower. He hates me doing this stuff. My mate, sorry. There it is. You've already changed, me. So listen, you must tell me, with, is this, you're gigging at the moment? Are you on tour with... I'm writing the stuff at the moment.

Most of the work that I do, I'm much less on the circuit than I ever was. I'm going to the Edinburgh Festival and doing some comedy festivals and stuff. Well you're going to go into companies and talk about this, so you do a lot of that. What I want to do, okay, this is my grand plan. I think everyone has to use their skill set, right? And my skills, every comedian, I think,

most comedians, male comedians, when they start, they think, I want to be like Bill Hicks. I'm going to smoke a cigarette and wear a leather jacket and just hang out under a streetlight, just telling my truth. The reality is I am as far away from Bill Hicks as possible to be. One of the things that's dogged me my whole career, I think it's dogged me, is that all of my reviews say, as soon as this guy walks on stage, you relax and think we're in safe hands.

I'm like, but no, I want to be Bill Hicks. But that is in my skill set. I'm personable. People like me. And I look nice and I sound nice to a sort of white male, you know, standard. Well, to everyone. I think you're, yeah, that you are very likable, Stuart. Thank you.

it is a cross that I bear. I mean, what I'm trying to do is use being likable. So what I do is I go and support sustainability departments, of big organisations, and I go, I'm funny. I don't say I'm funny and likable, but basically the thrust, the harpoon is, I talk to the sustainability person and I say, what would you say to your CEO,

if you could have them up against a wall and slap them around, or what would you say to your employees that you would like, please God, can you stop doing all this and that? Yeah, I'll write jokes about that and sneak it into the middle of my very funny climate thing that I'll come along and do it your health and safety briefing. Because it's about impact and the biggest impact you had. If I had a legion of fans and followers like Jimmy Carr, if I had millions and millions of followers, then I'd utilise that.

As it is, as I said, I'm extremely niche famous. But what I can do is use the fact that I look and sound nice and kind of weaponise that to go, hey, shall we have a sort of funny, silly, lighthearted conversation about these things? And maybe that has a positive effect. And if I can get the game plan is get that in front of someone with their hands on the leave as a real power. You know, if I can write a joke as memorable as, like Seinfeld's got a bit about the vegetables in the crisper and how you, every time you put them in there, I put them in there and I leave them to rot.

I've maybe heard that joke 25 years ago and I've never, I think of it every time I use the crisper. So if I can write a joke that says, oh, you know, every time I'm about to make a man, massive decision about carbon budgets, I think of X, Y, Z. And it's funny, and I get it in front of someone who's making those decisions. And that feels like that might be a worthwhile thing to do. You're talking about being likable, and you took that very graciously. Oh, it's an impossible compliment to say, yes, I am. I agree, Emily Dean. I am like it.

But is there a side of you that thinks I would rather be dark and complicated? Not that I'm saying you're not complex, but I'm saying... No, I think I've worked. that I've worked that out of myself. I was very like, I desperate, I was, I was a terrible goth as a teenager. I was like a rubbish goth with a sun tan. I tan very easily. And I was like, oh, I wish I was pale and interesting. I think I've been through a lot of that stuff and kind of managed to shake it off, I think. You realise as you get older, I think, do you know, I realised it from bereavement when all those qualities that I'd sort of prized in my life,

being cynical and sharp and funny and quick. Yeah. And then standing, it was watching my sister die, you know, as a young mum. And I thought, oh, those aren't very useful now. Yeah. They're actually utterly useless. And what you need is kindness and empathy. What a horrible way to learn that lesson.

That must be so hard. But what a memorable way, because I will never forget that now. So when I meet people like you, I think these are the people we need more of. And you know what? I mean, that's lovely to hear. Yeah, but you're annoying because you're funny as well. I'm just annoying as well. My wife, by the way, is a huge fan of this podcast,

my wonderful, glorious wife. And I think she will like that I've told you I'm annoying. She will not like how nice you put about me. So your wife, I'm a little bit obsessed with your wife. She'll be thrilled with that. Is she like you? And how does she differ from you? She is better than me in every conceivable respect.

She is an ocean of patience and kindness. She's really grounded. She's funny. And she's cool. And she's just the best conceivable mum. Like our children are happy, wonderful, incredible kids. And I've had a little bit to do with that, I guess. How did you meet her?

We met at Glastonbury. We met at Glastonbury Festival. The producers enjoying this. Oh, lovely. Love it. Love it. Never miss it. We met at Glastonbury and she's keen for everyone to know whenever I bring that up. She likes people to know that she met me and kind of went, oh, this guy, this guy's a bit of all right, before she knew I was a performer. I was doing, and I think I was doing street shows there. That was a sort of crossover year where I was doing street shows and a little bit of stand-up. And she saw me, I think she saw me do a street show. show with a kid on what's called the pavement riser where the big festival turns

into the sort of circus theatre festival and there's this little riser stage and I had a child volunteer and the child had a little wig out moment on stage and they wet themselves and I think I dealt with it really kindly and ignored it and just you know made them just got them off stage and moved on and you know what I mean and I think she was like oh that was a kind thing I like that so she was attracted to you for all the right reasons Isn't that lovely? I just think she's, I just think she's wonderful. I tell you what annoys me about her is that she is kind of really, what's the word, humble?

Like if I say, if I ever compliment her or say you look fantastic, she'll always go, oh, do you think? Oh, I'm not sure. You know, like that. Like, I wish she would, I wish that one day I could say to her, not just having, look, you're amazing, you're hilarious stuff like this. I love it. Well, she does do this occasionally. I love it when she's like, yes.

Do you know what I mean? And I wish she would do that more because I think she would. She's brilliant. I wish she could see herself through my eyes. Well, do you know what I would say to you? I suspect, and I may be wrong, but I think that's something I understand as a woman, because I think as a man, it's more acceptable for you to accept compliments. Whereas I sometimes think as a woman, it's like a lifetime of being conditioned. She's a bit arrogant. Who does she think she is?

Sure. Do you know what I mean? So someone says, oh, that's a nice dress. And I experimented for a brief period. I'd go, everyone would say, oh, your hair looks nice. I said, I know, isn't it lovely? Yes. And I thought, I just want to see how people react. It was quite an interesting reaction.

Absolutely, absolutely. This conversation exists within patriarchy 100%. And that's something I love is that my kids are very turned on to that. Really? My son, he's nine and he's watching all of the Simpsons. There's all you can't see his face in there. You dip your head down, he uses his little eyes in under there. That is so sweet.

I know. Bye. Bye. My son's watching all of The Simpsons from Go. He's got like 37 seasons to get through. I think he's on season eight. And how old is he? He's nine and my little girl is six.

And my son, they're both very, like my little girl will always go, oh, that's a lovely cat and I'll say, I'll say, yeah, he's nice, isn't he? And she's a yes, or her or non-binary cat. And I'll go, yeah, yeah, good point, good point. You know, picking me up, I get that. And my son watching the Simpsons, he said, who's the one, It's Ralph Wiggum, Chief Wiggum's son. And he said, everyone's a bit mean to Ralph, isn't it?

Because really, everyone says he's stupid, but he's just got additional needs. And I'm like, oh my God, are you kidding me? You know what I mean? Like, yes, of course, yes. And so we have a nice conversation about that and about the patriarchy on display within the Simpsons, whereby it is progressive, but it was progressive 35 years ago. And things have moved on, and there's not enough female characters and stuff like that. And a lot of, I think those are combined values of me and my wife.

Yes. But what I love is that there is a really open, conversation about like my kids spot patriarchy and things. Right. And it's a constant, you know, I'm being educated. I have young women where I'll tell them about stories perhaps with men that I turned into, I anecdotalised. And I turned into funny stories that, that time when X did this to me or whatever.

And I see young women like my goddaughters and my niece and they're looking at me, that's, that's awful. That's not funny. and that's really helpful because you're like, oh, okay, I did that because I felt it was my only option to turn that into a joke, but it's actually not funny, they're right. So it's amazing what you can learn from younger people, you know, and that ties into that whole thing what you were saying about climate as well, because younger people are much more tuned into all that stuff, aren't they? Yes, yes, they are, and we definitely have to be talking to children about climate, and we have to be doing it. in a way that doesn't scare them and crucially doesn't effectively say to them, hey kids, we've fucked it, it's down to you now, bye, I'm just going to age out and die.

This is your gig now because that's incredibly demotivating and awful. You're very positive person, aren't you? Um, I think I, I think I'm really good at faking positivity all the time. I don't, I, I, there's a lovely thing in Capoeira which is a white person in the early noughties, of course, I did briefly. Where Capoeira says, I don't remember the Brazilian Portuguese for it, but it's a phrase, Brazilian? I can't remember.

There's a complex relationship between Brazil and Portugal in terms of Capoeira, so I don't want to tread on any toes there, but it translates as, I have negative, but I am positive. And I really like that. I really like that because I'm not always positive about things. I have chronic anxiety. I'm hypervigilant. I always imagine the worst. My wife will be the first person to tell you I'm very probably difficult to live with.

You know, I'm kind of, I don't know if mercurial is the word, but the permanent present, the ADHD thing. When I got the diagnosis, which is her idea to go and find out, she was very like, oh God, oh, now you've got a thing and now we all have to. She was very sort of more politely about it than that. But I imagine I am a pain to live with. But I am good. Come on. I was just going to say, someone asked me recently about, about. being a dad. I think I'm a good dad, but it's really funny. You know, if someone says,

like, I'm really good at giving up smoking. That means they're not, right? So I think I'm a good dad because I'm really good at apologising. But I am. I'm really, like, if my, if I get frustrated and I've done the wrong thing or I say the wrong thing, I think I'm really good at very quickly, calming down and saying to my kid, whichever one of them it is, I did the wrong thing there. I was really, I was really frustrated about this. And actually, that's because I'm, I'm impatient. You're right. I did hurry you then. And that was unfair. And the reason we're hurrying is my fault because I didn't plan things right. You know, so I'm impatient and I've got it wrong. And I tell you what, apologising to your kids is crucial, I think. And I've got such a brilliant relationship with both my kids. And I think I try to be a sort of whole person in front of them and admit my mistakes and things like that. I love that. It's so important. I don't know how I got onto that. something about my wife. Well, I love that you did.

Oh yeah, whether or not I'm a positive person. So yes, I am positive. I'm good at apologising for bad stuff I've done. So before I let you go, I want to ask you something that I often ask people on this podcast, which is what do you most

fear that people will say about you when you leave a room and what do you most hope they will say? That's a belt of a question. Did we get it? I like it. Fine. It's part of it. Fine. Sorry, I was just as panicking as I thought they were chatting too about it. Sorry. But I'm definitely keeping that in to show how conscientious. I'm good at his job for years. Oh God. I'm a nightmare for producing other people's podcasts while I'm on them. I'm so sorry. Can you give them a credit? Exec producer, Stuart Goldshead. I would love that. I would love that. I love it and I wish I'd thought of it. Good. It's yours.

What do I most fear that people say when I leave the rule? Well, I do have a lot of sort of social anxiety. I do worry that, you know, know I've got loads of, I've got lots and lots of friends that I wish I saw more of, but I don't contact them enough. And I don't know why I don't. I'm doing that thing again. Why don't I, oh God, I'm going to admit something awful. I've got two lists, this is very new. I've got two lists, a list of 20 people who I wish I saw more of, and a list of 10 people who are already very close friends, but I should contact them more. My friend, Marky, really, really close friend. And I just feel like I'm making him. do all the work here. I'm just being a bad friend. I'm always flitting around from one thing to

another. I forget to contact people. So I've made these two little lists and I've got a 10-sided dice and a 20-sided dice and I roll them and I go, today I'm going to send a text to this person and this person and just check in with them, just remember, which is an appalling. It's like, oh God, I think I'm okay with saying this. I've only been doing it for a week or two. But I feel like it is simply just a memory thing to stop me from losing touch with people I love. because life moves so fast, especially when you're a parent, it's just whoosh. And you suddenly go, oh God, you see someone, you go, I've not seen you for 10 years or something. And you're like, you lose people.

So I suppose when I leave a room, I suppose my biggest fear is that my friends all go, thank God, he's gone. And I realize they don't actually like me or want to hang out with me. And what I wish they said about, oh, God, I don't know. What do I hope they're saying about me? I imagine what they're saying about me is God, I wish you'd chill out a bit but they may not be so I don't know what I'd like them to say about me

what do I say? Oh do you know what? There are a couple of people I can think of who when they leave a room everyone goes God, aren't they great? Oh God I love them and I definitely on some level would like that to be the case. Well I will be saying that about you I really will and Raymond will say it too oh he's a little hairy puddle

Stuart it's been such a joy and please keep on doing what you're doing because you've really got me inspired well I will I've no plans we're coming up for episode 500 on the podcast and I've no plans to stop ever I keep thinking I should have you had this thought as a podcaster have you thought I should

pre-record the episode for if I accidentally darn have you not is that hypervigilance again Your face had that thought If you haven't I keep thinking What would I put in The sort of time capsule Goodbye everyone

It's been great kind of podcast I should do that Hey please subscribe to the Patreon And it'll go to my kids Something like that That'd be clever Maybe we should do one like that Yeah I think podcasters should

I think that would be nice Or maybe I would just choose I would say Can you nominate a celebrity To say sadly To eulogise me at length Yeah well that'll happen anyway But I like the idea

Of being part of it yourself So Oh, how did I get onto that? I had a second thing I was going to say. It's almost like an ADHD. I know. I've done pretty well, I think, today. I've sort of managed to stay on course a lot.

But then I've got a similar kind of brain. So I think when you meet somebody who has a similar kind of brain, it feels like you're sort of talking the same language and it feels natural. You know what I mean? As soon as I started talking about having ADHD on my podcast, over the next year, lots and lots of friends of mine with whom I have relationships based on incredibly fast, bubbly conversations about half-remembered YouTube videos about sebiotics, you know, that kind of thing. And crucially, I bet you can ring them ago.

So that thing happened. You never say hello. So many of them got in touch with me, just individually dribs and drabs kind of going, Stu, can we have a chat about ADHD at one point? By the end of it, I ended up saying to people, oh, if you're my friend and you're calling to check, then congratulations you have ADHD. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's just like, oh, it turns out that's what all my closest friendships are kind of based on.

And I found the best thing, Pierre Navelli, who's a comic, that I, Yes, I love Pierre. Isn't you great? He's so smart. He does the show with you, yeah, of course. Yeah, and he said, because he has autism, he said to me, when I talked about it, I said, you know, it's difficult, isn't it? Because you do get a lot of people saying, oh, well, everyone in comedy has ADHD.

Everyone has autism. And Pierre has a brilliant response to this, which he says to me, yes, isn't it weird how everyone at Train Club appears to have autism? It's so weird that all these people at the Star Trek Convention appear to have been neurodivergent. Yes, all of these people, all of comedians who have seen, self-selected for being in a different place every night with different people at the cost of their social relationships. And he was going, yes, and I said, all people say about ADHD,

she said, isn't it with that you've chosen a very financially precarious, unpredictable job? And so it absolutely makes sense to me that, of course, it's just that you're all attracted to this profession. Well, one of the self-diagnosis things is, do you struggle with boring or repetitive tasks? And my answer is, I can't answer that because I've designed my life so that there are no boring or repetitive tasks. Well, also one of the things that really was when you said, and I find that interesting, your wife had said, I think you should get tested. Because when I saw a specialist, he said, why did you come here? And I said, oh, my best friend suggested it.

And people around me were sort of hinting that they felt it might help me. He said, well, that's often a very good sign to me because people with genuine ADHD are mostly the last to know. Yes. It takes people around you having 30 years or whatever of dealing with it. Whereas people, he said, that are rushing to do online diagnosis, generally, you might find it's not that. Not always, but you know what I mean? I said my brother was a bit resistant to the idea. He's a very solid guy. My brother, he's very definite and deliberate.

I'm sort of miming being a big, he's like a big stone guy. And I was telling my mum and my brother about it. I went back to see the two of them. And I said, so, I've had this ADHD diagnosis. And I could feel he was a bit resistant. Here we go again. It's you trying to be special kind of thing. And he said, well, what does that actually mean?

And I said, well, you know how I'm a bit much? And he went, yeah, and I was like, it's that. And he seemed very happy with that. He's like, yeah, fair enough. I can handle that. Well, we don't think you're a bit much. Oh, thank you. We think you're just perfect.

It's been lovely. Thank you for having me. We've loved it. Will you say goodbye to Raymond? Can I have a little cuddle? I'm going to go home and take some more Leratidine. We love you. Bye-bye.

Bye bye, mate. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.