Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Susie Dent

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

This week Emily and Ray headed to the Oxfordshire countryside for a walk with Susie Dent. They chatted about growing up with her love of languages, being the Queen of Dictionary Corner and her podcast, Something Rhymes with Purple. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I genuinely am only funny by mistake. So they're hoping quite a few times where I've said something and the audience have really laughed. And I thought, well, that's lovely, but I have no idea why they're laughing. And then on the train home, I think, ah, that's why, because I've said something which has got some filthy doublon tonder if it's cats down. And I had no idea.

This week on Walking the Dog, I took raid to the Oxfordshire countryside to go for a stroll with Countdown legend, Susie Dent. Susie's a cat owner, but she's a huge dog for. fan, so Ray was well in there. We had the loveliest chat about her childhood passion for books and language, and the incredible career she's gone on to have is the Queen of Dictionary Corner. Susie's one of the most charmingly modest people I've ever met. She'll tell you, I studied a bit in America. What she actually means is I have a master's degree from Princeton. She's just totally unaffected and has this very serene energy. She's basically a joy to be around. She also does a

fabulous podcast with Giles Brandreth called Something Rhymes with Purple about their shared love of language and you can go and see them live at London's Fortune Theatre on December the 18th. There are some dates for Jan and Feb too, so book your tickets at the Fortune Theatre.com. I loved my walk with Susie and I really hope you do too. Let's hand over to the fabulous woman herself. Here's Susie and Ray. Quite difficult to see when it's dark though. I imagine you're quite difficult to see. We've got this one dog on our road that's been fitted with sleigh bells and goes for walks, I know, 15 times a day. So she's constantly got what sounds like a

reindeer going up and down, or Santa going up and down, I'll write. I don't know if I need to put his lead on, Susie. No, I don't think you do. I think it's fine. I'm going to follow you. Okay, perfect. Right, Raymond, can you follow Susie? Yeah. I think he looks quite good with you. Oh, I would gladly take you home, Raymond. He looks a little bit discombobulated, though. I mean, we're barely a minute in and already I've had a discombobulated from Dent. Yeah, I could not be happier.

So I'm going to introduce. I'm with the wonderful Susie Dent and we're in, should we say the Oxfordshire area? We are. and I have Raymond with me because Susie is dogless I am

I am dogless but I have massive dog envy I spend my life cuddling other people's dogs and I have a rescue cat from Batterie who I adore but I have to say she's the only

cat that I really really cherish because I'm much more of a dog person and she's extremely scared So I couldn't have a dog with Bo, but also I'm just not at home enough. And I just worry, it would be the stress of leaving the dog at home. So for all those reasons, I don't have one, but I will. I'm determined to agree up with dogs and need to go back there.

So yeah, so I'm basically coveting your relationship with Raymond. I adore them, yeah. So talk me through your history with dogs, Susie. My history with dogs is essentially I grew up with a slightly mad Springerspaniel called Tufti named after some children's programme that's long forgotten I remember Tufti but I can't actually really remember who Tufti was

it wasn't a dog I don't think it was a squirrel I don't want to both but I think I was a member of the Tufti Club I think I was too he was a squirrel right was he a squirrel Taffty Club and the Puffing Club I don't remember the puffing club too Come on Ray come on so I grew up with with Tufti and then heartbroken obviously when he died and he died when

hi so yeah so Tufti died and then my mum got another springer and my dad was my parents when I was about 13 he's always had golden retrievers and their names always began with a bee So we had Bumble and we had Barty and we had Bartleby and Barney So I just have always grown up surrounded by dogs And I really do miss them I also felt totally in love with a guide dog That came regularly to the countdown studios pre-COVID When we had audiences called Bruce and his owner Craig

And I did all the things that I shouldn't have done Because I didn't realise you're not supposed to stroke guide dogs or pet them or give them food or anything and I did all of the above. Susie, I didn't know that either. No, if they're working, you're not supposed to distract them essentially. But I would bring biscuits in. I would go over and shower him with affection because I was dog starved. And yeah, he's just gorgeous.

So I miss lovely Bruce. Oh. Well, you were telling me about your dogs growing up and I'm interested to know a bit more about Susie Jr. because you grew up, is it kind of Surrey you grew up? Yeah, I grew up in Surrey in a little village where I was quite distanced from my school friends. I lived quite a long way away from them, but that was okay because I was pretty solitary as a child,

having an older sister who, she's looked after me all my life. I love her to bits. But we kind of did our separate things, and mine was to take off on my bike. with chocolate and ice pops, remember them, in my saddle bag and just go and sit by this with this little stream or forward nearby and I would just go and sit on the rickety bridge and be quite romantic and melancholy.

That's what I used to do. Oh, I love you. I lived in my head. It's a bit sort of romantic poets. Yeah, I've always lived in my head. Way too much, but obviously that was there from the start. So that was me. I was also a geek or a nerd, or a swat, all three,

long before they became fashionable. I just lost myself in French and German, predominantly, and vocabulary bits, because modern languages of my first love, particularly German, which I adore. And even now, when I hear German, I feel like I'm coming home. Strange. And so, and your parents, what did your parents do, Susie?

So my father was a textist. agent. So he was always really in the fashion business and a lot of my siblings went into the same industry, really. And my mum had worked as

an estate agent for quite a long time and then was a stay-at-home mum when we were growing up. So they're not linguists at all. So I feel a bit of an anomaly from that point of view. And you mentioned your siblings. Yes. So you have a sister

I have an older sister who I grew up with. I have a step-sister. I had a step-brother who sadly died, and I have a half-sister near me who lives down in Devon. Oh, Susie, I'm really sorry about your step-brother. I lost my sister, actually, and it's a really tough thing, isn't it?

Yeah, it is, especially so young. It was only 40, so, yeah, it's tough, particularly, obviously, for my step-mom, who was astonishing. So, yeah, never really. easy at all but am do you sure you're happy just being ferried around here I feel bad that you're having to carry no it's nice and warm I have to go have to give you another word because it's been uppermost in my mind driving here today which is we picked a day with apricity

which is one of my all-time favorite words I don't know if you know about apricity which is the warmth of the sun on your back on a winter's day and it's just this is it isn't it I love It's just gorgeous. There go. That's apricity. I'm turning my back to the sun. Big Raymond's enjoying it too. And was your house, when you were growing up, were you, I'm getting this sense of, as you say, quite a studious, I guess, introspective, quiet kid? Yeah, definitely. And was your house as sort of, what was the, I suppose, the energy and the atmosphere in there? Was everyone a bit like you in the family? I think it was quite a quiet house. When we went to Battersea for our rescue cat, the cat we have at the moment,

I remember them saying that she really needed a quiet house because she's so scared of everything and everybody. And I remember thinking, yeah, we are actually really quiet. So I feel like that quietness has been with me all my life. I remember it being freezing because my dad never switched the heating on. And so I would find any sunny spot that I possibly could and would perch there, often on my knees, just reading, really.

I mean, I had fun too, but I definitely wasn't a party animal. That didn't really happen until I went to uni. So, yeah, I guess I was quite quiet. I mean, but happily so. You know, not lonely. What sort of gang were you in at school then? Were you chess club? No, I wasn't chess club, but I probably,

I would say the uncool gang, probably. But not in any way that we were bullied. I think we just weren't cutting edge. But again, I'm sort of quite happy. I think we were fairly balanced, I hope. I think it was fine. I mean, I went to a convent, so that too really suited me because the style of teaching was definitely,

everyone sit down and be quiet. So I've never really been hugely good at noise. I was really scared of clowns as well at any circuses because of the noise they brought with them. So I think I am noise-averse, probably. Did you have, were you kind of anxious at all or did you, did you worry? Were you a warrior when you were a kid? Definitely a warrior now. I think I was, no, I do remember a phase when I was 13 when I went through the sort of hormonal angst stage and wrote a secret diary which I locked up with a key and just said how miserable I was and how nobody understood me. but again it's all that kind of back of the hand

against the forehead stuff I think I probably was quite melodramatic not in a history on it way but just in a way with me way but not for long thankfully but it was pretty grim when I was in it

but then presumably as well because your parents were they your parents split up didn't then was it around that time yeah probably around that time and also I have to say the really positive outcome from that

was that I did turn to go down there. Oh yeah, this way? Yeah. I did turn to books and work as my kind of oasis really. That was where I felt safe and comfortable. And, yeah, so from that point of view, it had really positive repercussions for me. And I found words really early or they found me.

I just was always, always drawn to them. So even now, I can't have a ketchup bottle on the table without having to read the label. I just, it's always the printed word for me. It just kind of draws me in. Really? I'm kind of strange, Emily. I think a lot of people,

I think that's a very kind of inspirational thing because it's very hard, I think, for a lot of people to find their passion. Yeah. And it feels like you were pretty certain of your passion from a very young age. Yeah, I was. I probably wasn't particularly aware of it,

but I, you know, I, I sort of struggled with areas where I had to use the parts of my brain that was kind of practical. So put me in front of geometry or trying to do origami. And, you know, I was just hopeless. I like that the only two things we can find that Susie Deng can't do is origami and geometry. I know. It's just tip of the iceberg as opposed to stuff I can't do. But algebra, which involved letters, that's why I like to see.

I absolutely loved. So, yeah, so the compulsion was definitely there from quite earlier. I just would sit in the back of the car. We'd go on these family trips at weekends where we'd take trips to the South Coast, even in winter, and I was so skinny that I would be freezing all the time. And I just wanted to stay in the back of the car because I had my vocabulary books with me.

And I wasn't trying to learn them for a test or anything. I just loved being in this world, because, you know, French vocabulary books, for example, would be kind of thematic, so you'd go to the seaside and you'd learn all the words for the seaside. They're always called, we have called Vive lavello, we have. There are always these strange, and you know what I love about vocab books,

particularly when you're learning at that age, is that this sort of very pure, innocent world where, you know, everyone's so polite and speaks very formally and... Yes, yes, that is true. I mean, I still feel that if I went to France now, I would probably speak as though I was in a Balzac novel. because that was the kind of stuff that I lost myself then, whereas German, I said, you know, I lived there for a bit. And so I'm okay with German, I think.

And I just adore the sound of it so much. Where do you stand, Emily, on calling yourself his mum? Well, I wouldn't say fur baby. No. I'm not a fur baby person. I do sometimes, you find yourself saying, mum, it just happens quite organically. Because I think like when you go to the vet and things, they call out the name, you know, and they'll say, Raymond Dean. I never really thought of him as being Raymond Dean.

I mean, I don't, but then they'll say things, which is very sweet, like, well, you know, we'll get, let Mommy put you up here. And you think, oh, I miss Mommy. Oh. So, so you just kind of follow, see, I don't, sometimes I find it really nauseating. I think it's when, when I hear people saying, come to Mommy, come to Mommy, that sort of thing. I just think, no. but then I totally get the offspring bit. Come on, Ray.

So, you know what, I really like the sound of Susie Dent. I think I would have really liked you, but I was one of those kids at school. I don't know if you were aware of these kids who I was a people pleaser and I was so desperate to fit in. They were desperately try and join the sort of glamorous popular gang

who didn't really accept me. So I spent my life with my fingertips clinging on and them slightly being a bit mean to me. Oh, I do absolutely recognise that. I had a sort of slightly strange best friend relationship that was a little bit like that because it was very imbalanced and I also was kind of hanging on to her coat house.

And I don't think she was particularly horrible to me, but understandably she also had other friends. So I remember that excruciating moment when the teachers ask you in alphabetical order who you want to sit next to, where your desk is going to be. And maybe it wasn't an alphabetical order, actually, because I would have been quite high. But she always came first, and I would sit there in absolute dread, wondering whether she was going to choose me or not.

So I do recognise that feeling of wishing to belong. I think that's quite normal, isn't it? I think that ripples through life as well, that we all pick a tribe and desperately want to be part of it. Do you remember a moment, Susie, like connecting with a book or, you know, one of those sort of light bulb moments where you thought, um, God, I,

I think this might be the thing I want to do. When were you aware of what a, it's a lexicographer you are? Yeah. I know. Such a mouthball. My, my job comes with all sorts of really alienating vocabulary.

Etymology and lexicography and that sort of thing. I, well, not until really late, actually, because obviously everything I do now revolves around English. pretty much. I mean, I'll try and bring German in as much as I can. I've just written a book about emotions where I was looking at one's express in other languages as well, but for the most part,

it's English. And that came really late. So when I finished university here, I had no clue what I wanted to do, but I quite fancied living in New York. So I went to study in the US for three or four years, but realized quite early on I didn't want to be an academic. That wasn't for me. So I wasn't so sort of studious, I suppose, that I was happy to sit and write, you know, for hours on end. I'm quite fidgety, I'm quite fidget. Can I tell you, I'm going to tell you something, Susie, and this reveals a lot about you, that you just said, I went to university here, and then I went to university in the US. And what you didn't say was that you went to Oxford and then Princeton.

And I find that interesting. Well, because frankly, on paper, it's the first thing I would have said when I turned up. No, no, on paper, I know it sounds amazing. But honestly, I think with Princeton, it was, there was this kind of assumption that because I went to Oxford, I would naturally be brilliant. It was a sort of, you know, reputational thing. So I didn't, I don't think it really mattered what I was like.

Also, I was doing German, which was, and comparative literature, which, you know, were probably not hotly contested subjects. Yeah, that was very easy. Yeah. So, tell me about. At Oxford, what were you like? Were you excited to get in?

You must have been... Yes. Do you think it was sort of expected by that point? No, not at all. So my school did not cater for Oxford at all. So it was not something that I'd been directed towards, really. It was just something I felt like I wanted to do. My mum and dad hadn't been to university.

So, again, it wasn't expected from them. Oh, I'm taking you to a... Where am I taking you? She'd see if we can go down here, I think. this is lovely isn't it I think we can go down here fingers crossed well those tractor marks

yeah this used to be a royal forest I discovered this very recently that yeah it was where village boat came to kind of gather their fuel and things they were allowed in anyway going back to expectations I knew nothing about Oxford at all

and I chose my college Somerville because it sounded like an American ice cream parlour genuinely I thought it was sounded really lovely and happy. So that's why I chose it and was just really, really lucky. I had a fantastic tutor who interviewed me and happily thought I'd be okay. So it was not, it was not a clearly defined path for me at all. I just did what I thought sounded really nice and was lucky enough to get in. But and also genuinely, I think, I think I don't know where I'm taking you now. we can go back if you like and go back to the proper path

I'm not sure how Raymond's going to shall we yeah because I don't want him to get caught up in brambles oh Susie you're so kind to Roman oh I love Raymond I do I can always pick you up again if you want and so when you were at Oxford were you sort of going out and partying or yes eventually I struggled a bit at the beginning because I didn't really know anyone or not many people and Somerville at the time

It's such a lovely college. I'm so lucky that I went there actually because I go back there now and its current principal, Jan, is just lovely. But as I say, it was sort of coincidental that I ended up there. And I was living in what looked like a celebrity squares block.

So there were just lots of square windows and I was in one of them that looked out onto the main drag. And I was acutely aware of being in on a session. Saturday night when obviously that was not the thing to do. I should go this way? And I didn't really want to put my light on. So I would sit there, again, quite sort of reasonably happy. I didn't feel too anxious.

And I would sit and listen to Jane Armour Trading, me, myself, I, honestly, what a sad person. And UB40, Elvis Costello. And I would just sit there and be quite happy. And then that was my first term. And then I decided that I would join the drama group. So I became a stage manager, which essentially was a gopher for everybody. But that way, I met a lot of people and, you know, made some lifelong friends, which was great. So eventually I did go there and then, yes, I was a party animal.

I made up for lost time, for sure. And I'm really glad I did, but it just took me quite a long time. and you then went to Princeton which is incredible what an extraordinary achievement were you what was it like going over to America what were the sort of differences you

experienced did you feel slightly fish out of water or did you blend in because I imagine it to be quite you know that sort of preppy college vibe yes there was definitely there was a real distinction between those who were undergraduates and those who were at the post-grad college. So those at the post-grad college were definitely thought of as being very geeky. In fact, graduate college was nicknamed GC Geek Castle. So I fitted sort of in there, but I was acutely aware of, I wore a lot of black at this time and I would wear these big silver

hooped earrings. And so I looked very different to the chinos and polo shirts and it was quite happy with that actually and then I met some fellow anomalies and was incredibly happy there it was it was great but yeah again went there not really knowing anybody and then taking a little while to to settle in but I look back now and think wow I could just amaze that I did it I remember flying out to JFK not knowing anyone having to spend the night at the airport because it was snowing so hard the shuttle bus couldn't come and get us and just say I don't know how I took it all in my stride I definitely wouldn't be able to now but yeah and then it was a really happy time and then as I said I didn't I knew I didn't want to stay on

and do a PhD so I did my MA and then decided to teach and I was given a class of freshmen and then we're called freshmen even though it was mixed who had to study a language it was a requirement and I kind of got the ones who were really reluctant to be there. at all but they were just brilliant so I taught them German for quite a while and so you ended up working for Oxford University Press yes but I feel it was pretty soon after that wasn't it that you got your first TV break yes so I sent you when I got back from the US I was living in London I very luckily became part of this fair redise flat scheme in Westminster so I went to live with an acquaintance someone I didn't know very well

but who was living in Broadwick Street in the middle of Soho by Berwick Street and I went to live there which was incredible at a pretty low rent and loved Soho and lived in Soho for the first two years while I got the job at OUP so I commuted and probably within about two months I suppose my boss said we have this arrangement with this program called countdown and we provide the word referees would you like to go on and the answer was a definite no and it was a no three times until i just not me it was that was absolutely not my chosen trajectory at all tv was just not something else particularly interested in and it it's funny i i i i i i'm sorry i i i I mean, I look back now and I have the best gig in the world and I adore it.

But I know for a lot of people in TV, it is this magical world that they would never be without. I don't think I ever saw it as being this sort of dream, heavenly place that I wanted to be part of. I was always been quite not cynical about it, but just sort of fairly neutral about it, I suppose. And I think I'm just very happy not with my head below the parapet, really. Just fly below the radar, just to introduce another metaphor. and just get on with the stuff that I was doing. So I've never really wanted to be part of the circuit, just because I'm quite shy.

I'm very self-conscious. That was one thing I didn't mention about me when I was a teenager. I was acutely self-conscious, just so aware of how I looked and how other people might view me, etc. And how did that manifest itself, just in terms of your behaviour? Just, yeah, just kind of, I said, shrinking, from sort of big gatherings maybe. And yeah, I think I shrugged that off at university, really.

But that wish just to be, to live a kind of quiet life, I suppose, was always there. And anyway, I did eventually say yes because it became quite clear that this was going to be part of my job description. So I went and now famously, for me, sat next to Rue Lelenska. who was amazing and Richard and Carol were there and did my first show looking terrified and unfortunately you can still see it on YouTube. Well, I have seen it. Yes, and there's a bit where Rula Lenskreen

this fabulously throaty actressy voice and says, we've got a lovely girl here and she's rather nervous. I just look so rigid. I actually think I look arrogant, whereas in fact I was just terrified. You know, I don't think you do. I actually found that really touching watching that, Because I think it just, I suppose it reminded me of a time when people weren't, didn't spend their entire childhood, I suppose, becoming accustomed to being on, to performing. Because it was pre-social media.

That's very true too. Sort of an innocence and, I suppose, an authenticity about it, which I actually rather loved. Oh, well, yeah, I just don't, I'm not sure I really knew how I was supposed to behave. behave but yeah I mean rich and carroll are all amazing and and I was I have to say I was one of many people who sat in that corner so we rotated and I probably went up all the while working at oup about two or three times a year so yeah so rich and carroll were there they a few years later decided well 10 years later actually pretty much decided that they wanted to make a full-time team of it and and I was there thank you very

goodness and thought actually this would be a lovely thing to do. I could be at home more because I had my daughter was still quite young. So it kind of worked out really well from that point of view. And this year is my 30th. I'll believe it. How did you find suddenly being recognised and being do you know I wasn't? Honestly Emily I really wasn't. Until the comedy version of Countdown came out, I really didn't. If I was out with Carol, or even Rachel, when she started, then yes, people would recognise me, but honestly, barely before. And if people did recognise me, they would come up and tell me what their favourite word was

or how brilliant the current contestant was on Canada. And it was a really benign, lovely thing. And then because Catsdown, as we call it, is prime time, that's when the recognition factor went up dramatically. But still, it still seems like it's a really lovely thing, you know, and that people do genuinely just want to talk about how much they love Countdown or, you know, whatever their linguistic bugbear is at the time. So it still feels like a really, a world that's still rooted in what I love, which is words.

I think why you're so great on Cats Stars Countdown is because I think you're being you, Yeah. And you're there doing what you're good at. Because there would be a temptation. It would be very understandable to think, I'm going to have to start coming up with some zingers and being funny. Oh, I did feel that at the beginning. I really did.

And I suppose even now people think, gosh, you know, you need to get your own back on Jimmy because of his barbed introductions, which is always quite apologetic about, I have to say afterwards. But I really did at the beginning feel like I had to be funny. I'm not sure whether Rachel felt the same thing, but I had to wait a while. I suppose this is becoming a recurring theme in what we're talking about. I had to wait a while until I found who I was on that show. And it just didn't work.

I genuinely am only funny by mistake. So they're hoping quite a few times where I've said something and the audience have really laughed. And I thought, well, that's lovely, but I have no idea why they're laughing. And then on the train home, I think, ah, that's why, because I've said something which has got some film. the Duval Ententee if it's Katz Dan and I had no idea. Trying to be funny, particularly on a show with such brilliant comedians was just never going to work. And so now I am just me, excuse me, I'm Jimmy Stoge, I am, yeah, I do the words bit, I think they probably edit it so I look as if I'm looking down on

everybody which I'm not, I'm laughing as much as anyone else but it's almost like it's a sort of role that's been slightly assigned to me and I'm happy with that. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Did you learn that? Did you watch yourself back and sort of think, okay. I never watch myself back, ever. Never listen to myself, never watch anything. I think like a lot of people who feel the same,

it's just especially if you are self-conscious, it's just not worth it really. Hate being photographed. Do you? I hate it with a passion, which is also a little bit unfortunate in today's selfie world. But I'm so happy that I escape that. You must be as well, but, you know, I'm so glad that social media wasn't around as I was growing up because that would have upped the self-consciousness by a factor of, you know, a million.

I find you a very calm presence on TV. Oh, thank you. I do feel at home there, very much at home, you know, because it is, it's my world and Countdown is genuinely my second family. I mean, a lot of the people on the team, including. cameras and people behind the scenes have been there for as long as I have. So it is definitely a home away from home and during lockdown I really miss them so much. So I do feel quite centred when I'm there and it's partly because I suppose with cameras you've got no sense really of who's on the other side and you know who's watching it.

It still feels like kind of intimate setting especially if you know everybody quite well. Yeah. So yeah I don't I hope I'm not a flappy person and it's really nice for you to say that I come across as being calm. I think inner turmoil is something I try to hide I suppose sometimes but I don't feel it I don't feel it on countdown at all but and you were talking about this sort of anxiety or not anxiety but you said that you tend to fret quite a bit are you're a warrior. Yeah I'm quite selective in my fretting I definitely get this gene from my dad um who who is a warrior and who will always sort of foresee a negative outcome

rather than a positive one. But I'm trying really hard to change this. And I tell you, he's been brilliant at trying to kind of reconfigure my brain as a friend, is Rob Rinder, who is a warrior himself, but he also really trains himself to try and be glass half full. And that is definitely what I'm trying to do. Really? Yeah.

Because I just waste too much energy on predicting the worst. And I don't do it. I hope I don't do it too explicitly and worry everyone else in the process, but I definitely inside that's what's going on. Do you think that's sometimes the tax you pay on, I suppose, thinking a lot, reading a lot? Yes, definitely. And as I say, living in my head, you know,

there's this great German word, Kotzkino, which is mind cinema. And it's essentially playing out the narrative of what's going to, happen usually an unpleasant one in your head the mind cinema copp's kino copse mind cinema yeah because german is great for i mean obviously there's the obvious ones charon fruider etc yes but german is great for those kind of words describing very specific things yes i mean i think that's why people will always say oh there'll be a word in german for this because you can't you can't you these sort of linguistic pylons where you can just basically as I say like Lego build build these kind of amazing compound words but they also do German also does yearning

really well which is probably why I'm attracted to it and I mean now the part of the reason I love where we are today is just the trees I'm a total tree lover and they have this wonderful word Wald ein sunkite which is forest solitude and it's just going to reconfigure figure yourself. Well, you see, I've reconvolute. I love that because I'm quite obsessed by German romanticism in painting. I like that Caspar David Friedrich. Yes, of course.

And a soul in quiet contemplation, pondering the universe. Normally looking out over a cliff. I'm waiting. It's just that sense of waiting, I think, which I've often felt. I always feel like I'm sort of waiting for things to happen, not always really good ones, but that sort of sense of anticipation. think you find in those paintings as well. And there's also a great Japanese word as well with a similar tree thing which is

Shin Rinoku which is forest bathing if you heard of this and it's a big thing in Japan apparently where they go and bathe. Susie we need to mention well I want to mention your girls we won't talk in depth about them because they've got their own lives and yes they didn't ask to be on this but you've got two girls and I want to know just generally What sort of a mum you are? Are you a panicky mom? Do you... I mean, all mum's worry, but...

Does that... No, I don't think I'm panicky. I hope not, anyway. I am... I am going to come up. What sort of mum am I? But I just... I would like to think that I'm sort of quite a gentle mum.

I probably could be pushier if I tried. So I would like to think that I'm fairly empathetic. But I'm sure I have all sort of... what's a shortcomings which my daughter could tell you about but I know I wouldn't sound panicky. How great to have Susie Dent as a mum though. Oh no honestly I would take them around and kind of point out a flower and said you know where Daisy comes from it's a shortening of the day's eye because it opens its petals at dawn and they'd be just like well originally they loved it and then eventually it's just like mum I just I just get

the mum as all parents know and then we move on so I'm not sure it is that great. as my mum. No, because you grow up thinking you're slightly deluded into thinking your parents know everything, whereas in your case, you do know everything. I absolutely don't. I remember during lockdown trying to cope with parallelograms and feeling at such a loss that I honestly didn't know where to turn. And also, even though Rachel Riley insists that maths and its teaching hasn't changed in 200 years, I swear that times tables are different now and long division and things. things. Susie, I need to talk about your fabulous podcast with Giles Brandre. Oh, yes. It's fun. Something rhymes with purple. Yes. And the podcast has been a huge success. And you're now, you're doing it sort of live as well, aren't you? You're taking it. Yeah, we're doing some live shows, which have been great, actually, in London and then hopefully next year around the country. And, oh, it's just, you know what? You must have found this, Emily.

The most surprising thing for me about the podcast is the community that you build up and just how engaged they are because as I was saying with telly, you don't really get a sense of who's watching and obviously people will get in touch via Twitter or whatever. But you don't get that whole sense so much of a conversation, I think. And that's really taken me by surprise and I love that about what we call the purple people. and you know there are many of them are kind of from around the world as well which is also great but this was entirely

Giles's idea he just said I want to do a podcast about words and I'd like to do it with you and you two were sort of mates anyway yes so Giles has been on countdown for way longer than me and he was there almost

since the beginning so we're talking 40 years really so that's where I knew him and yeah I was lucky that he just said you know let's do this together and yeah I think we I mean we're on almost 300 shows now which which is great so it's been a real revelation for me podcasting and do you think it suits your personality as well because there's a sort of a quiet intimacy to it in a way that I think TV probably is the more natural home of slightly look at me extroverts. Yeah.

Apart from Countdown, I'd say. I think Countdown is slightly different and allows me to sit in the corner and people to win a teapot. So I do feel like that's a glorious exception. But yeah, I do know what you mean. Yes, it is a very intimate setting and even more so now that we record from home.

And I just, you know, we're so different, Giles and I, in every respect. And he is the extrovert. He is the... You'll see when you come to see, if anyone comes to see our shows, he is the showman and he is fantastic at getting the audience on board. And I will be the one, hopefully, bringing up the sort of, you know, the knowledge of the words that we're discussing and that kind of thing.

But it does work really well, and his name dropping is astonishing. I mean, honestly, I said to him the other day, Josie, have to have a separate podcast or write a book about people you've met in the lift. because every time anyone is mentioned, whether it's Michael Jackson or Mariah Carey, he says, oh yes, I'd been in a lift with them. And he was telling this brilliant story about Michael Jackson the other day when he apparently said, oh, hello, Mr Jackson, it's lovely to meet you, and got no reply whatsoever. And when Giles questioned the bodyguard after Michael Jackson had walked out of the lift,

he said, well, I hope I wasn't too rude in saying something to him. and he said, don't worry, sir, Michael never talks on a Monday. Oh, I just did an Irish accent there. Anyway, Michael never talks on a Monday. So I thought, I'm immediately adopting this. No conversation on a Monday. Do you find yourself drawn to, I suppose, quite big personalities? Yes, but there's a limit.

So if someone is so out there and such a performer that they just kind of smother you with energy and have little subtlety, then it goes the other way. I just retreat. I just become a complete turtle and just, you know, it makes me more introverted. So, Giles level is perfect. And, you know, I have met some people who I just think, oh, I can't deal with this. And, you know, it's just like the clown thing I was saying, you know, I just, I find that sort of level of noise and energy a bit disconcerting.

That's just me. And I think that's quite a lot of social media, isn't it, unfortunately? Yeah. And do you... I want to know how Susie expresses sort of displeasure. Well, I'd love to think that all the words that I put out on Twitter, which is these amazing historical insults, would be ones that I would use.

People often think, well, you must bamboozle people with their vocabulary, and they won't know whether you're complimenting them or insulting them. I don't tend to use them as much as I should. So things like, you know, I guess, oh, you're such a mumpsimus. I might say that, and that's someone who insists that they're right despite clear evidence that they're not. But I wouldn't say you are a flap doodling ultra-crepredarian.

So that's not how I expressed displeasure. I think I, I think silence, I think I've learned the value of silence, really, which is just not to engage. and I remember being really scared talking of Twitter and social media being really scared about going on there because I wasn't sure I could deal with the level of vitriol I was positive I would get because, you know, obviously it's there and it can really ruin people's lives.

But I decided quite early on just to put words out there rather than me and I think that's been my safety net really because, you know, the vast majority of people who do engage are just words of us really and that's and that's lovely so that too has been a really nice community do you when you have to confront someone are you okay at that do you struggle with that do you feel nervous um yeah i would say not great at confrontation and that interestingly where i am really outspoken is when animals are involved so i do some work for um for guide dogs i mentioned bruce a lovely guide dog where I'm becoming one of their my guides, a sighted guide,

so I can take people out and hopefully describe what I'm seeing and allow them to go to places they couldn't necessarily. But if there's any kind of animal cruelty and guide dogs get quite a lot, unfortunately from other people, I... That's it, I'm right in. No, no hogsbard. Oh, is that a tree? Yeah.

It's from far away because my eyesight's a bit poor and I haven't got my glasses on. It looks like a rhino. That's what I thought. Did you? Should we sit on it? Should we take a picture on it? Yeah. So I'm interested in what you were talking about the confronting thing that you...

Yes. The silence thing is interesting, isn't it? It's very powerful that. Yeah, especially for a linguist. Quite strange to say, I don't use words. But I think it's just something you learn as you grow up, is not to give the knee-jerk reaction, which is so tempting. And then repent in leisure.

pleasure so I'm trying trying to master that I know but I can imagine getting an email from you and just I'm just reeling oh no I definitely don't write those I'd love to think that I could do that but no I don't really let rip do you know no I don't have outbursts not really I have a rule and I was telling a younger person this the other day just something I've learned yeah is never express any extreme emotion over text. Yes. And I realised it's something,

I haven't stopped to much in my life, but that's the one thing I've got a consistent record on. No, it's true. Well, where do you stand on emojis? Because they can be quite powerful. The trouble with emojis is that I worry that the ones I would select, I would send them, and the response at the other end would be,

Okay, boomer. Because I worry that I send a boomer one. For example, the red love heart is a boomer one. Oh my goodness. I've heard that the red love heart is only used by, yeah, by us. And essentially no one else. And I also randomly choose the one that's pulsating in the wrong context. You know, the pulsating red heart.

So I get that wrong. So, yeah. I mean, people often think that I should hate emojis because they're trying to replace words. But actually, they're one of the fastest moving areas of language. Isn't that gorgeous? Should we see who it's dedicated to? Or donated by. Joseph Bert Davy.

Our scholar travels yet the loved hillside. Isn't that beautiful? Our scholar travels yet the loved hillside. So it's a lovely memoriam bench, isn't it? It's beautiful. Isn't it lovely having yet in that context? Yeah. Because you don't really have that much, do you?

modern, do you? Not at all. No, it travels yet. I think it's like travel still. That's how I'm interpreting it anyway. Well, you know what I trust you. But yeah, that's really beautiful. I'd quite like to donate a bench, actually. Do you know what I've noticed spending today with you? Hmm. It's that I've really raised my game on the language front. Oh. And I think I've not, I didn't, wasn't consciously doing it, but I think I have been searching a bit for the appropriate word, whereas normally I'd be a bit lazy, whereas I notice I use a word like fret. Now, I haven't used that since I was in a guitar shop. I think I thought I'm with Susie Dent, so I'm going to use fret. And I feel really proud of myself.

Honestly, people often worry about their language. I can be as inarticulate as the next person. I've had people say, I really couldn't bring myself to text you because I didn't know if you'd expect semicolons and things. It's like, no. Oh, I really don't. And speaking of frets and guitar shops, I did hugely embarrass myself once by going in and asking for some plectra instead of a couple of plectrums and was generally laughed out of the shop. So, yes.

Are you very conscious about, you know, there's a lot of pressure. There's a brand to protect here. So if I were you, I would be proofreading every day. text I send every WhatsApp. No, not so much, but you probably heard about my bookwork perfect, which was just a career low, really, for me. Do you want to just remind everyone what happened? Yes, so what happened was, it was published during lockdown, and the wrong typesetting file, so the first typesetting file, which was full of typesetting areas, etc., plus my own, were sent to the printers,

and that was what was printed. So I didn't get my advance copy because, you know, there was so many people off and staff were thin on the ground, were thin on the ground. So I opened my copy on Publication Day and saw one paragraph where it was the, the, the, I think. And I just thought, what? What has gone on? And of course, it was called Word Perfect. And it was really very much Word In Perfect.

I would have cried. I did hide under the duvet for quite a while. But I was assured at the time that all publicity is. good publicity and actually do you know what it's done better than any of the bits that I've ever done so there was a silver lining come here Ray talking of crying Susie when are you are you do you cry often no no I don't actually I I think I well use the word fret I probably fret and might feel the sting of tears but I I don't openly sob very much.

How about you? I cry a hell of a lot. Do you? It's a really good thing. I cry a lot. It's a really good thing. And do you feel better after? I do, but what I've learned as I've got older

and is I've almost treated crying. I think it's important to cry, but I try and do controlled crying as an adult. Okay. So it's almost like I feel it's learning to sit with comfort is quite important. Yeah, I agree. And do you have an oasis where you go in order to sort of immediately make you feel better? Because for me, predictably, it's a dictionary or a book where I just escape and think all is okay because they're my sort of known parameters.

So I've kind of learned that as well because there's nothing worse than feeling, you know, like a sort of toddler sobbing over something they just absolutely can't control. And as you say, that kind of discomforting not being able to control things is actually quite tricky. So I think going to a where you feel a refuge is really important. Would you literally sit down and read the dictionary then? Yeah. But it's the best book in the world. Honestly, Emily, it's just got so many adventures in it.

It's not just a word and a definition. There are just so many stories in there. So, yeah, I'm going to go home and I'm going to try this, Susie Dent Therapy, I'm calling it. Okay. What do I do? Do I just open it randomly? Get a dictionary which has got word stories in them, so etymologies. So that's where I go is to the...

you know, the history of the word and what it used to mean and why it used to mean that and that kind of thing. And then you'll get lost. Yeah. So get a really good dictionary. It can be a printed dictionary. Can you be online. I mean, I look at the Oxford English dictionary online all the time and that is the mother of all dictionaries. It's brilliant.

Oh, Susie. Do you know, you're a very lovely calming person to be with. You've got very good energy. How would I say that to you? Is there a German or a French way of saying? And good energy? Good energy. There's a lovely general word Beaufortite which is a kind of consciousness which I think is being there in the moment.

And there's another lovely word which I discovered. It shouldn't describe me at all but it's the approach that we could all take which is philocally from Greek. And it's Filo meaning loving and color meaning beauty but it's basically loving beauty wherever you find it. So even in the smallest things. Even in that barking dog? Yes, exactly. Look for beauty in the... Because it's a happy dog I think.

I hope just like Raymond. It's so lovely to meet you, Raymond. It was. I think, do you like Raymond? I do love Raymond. If you ever want to, we can sit here, let me know. Although I would struggle a little bit with our cat. Although, given the size, it might be a bit of a standoff.

Well, Susie... Oh, look those dogs. Pedr just are all so excited at seeing each other. I love the way dogs communicate like that. Oh, no, it's brilliant, isn't it? Raise a bit more a young Susie Dent. Yeah, I think he's... It's very quiet, quite introspective, looking around for guidance, but equally just taking

it all in. I would describe him like you as he's self-possessed and he knows who he is and what he is and let the barkers bark. That's true, but he also looks like he's waiting for something. So that's another thing we have in common. Let's wait together, Raymond. Susie, can we have a hug? Thank you so much for having me.

Let's... Oh, we've loved you when you... I hope I showed you a bit of Shost. over it's just gorgeous and yeah it's it's a really calming place to be love the trees be a dendrophile i really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate review and subscribe on itunes