Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Suzi Ruffell (Part One)

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

This week - Ray’s been on a trip to his favourite place - Brighton Beach - to visit one of our favourite people… the comedian Suzi Ruffell! Suzi and Ray get on famously and Suzi’s part of the very exclusive club of people who have appeared on this podcast three times - you can hear her first appearance from March 2020 and her second appearance from January 2024.Despite three appearances on the podcast - Suzi STILL hasn’t got a dog… but we think she may nearly be ready to join the dog ownership club!!We had a huge catch up to find out all about Suzi’s new book Am I Having Fun Now? The book is a candid, funny and often moving memoir. Suzi covers everything from masking anxiety with musical theatre, developing an obsession with Titanic, and struggling to find her groove at school, on stage, and in her love life, to (eventually) coming out, falling in love, and becoming a parent, Suzi lays her life bare with signature wit and style. You can order your copy here! Follow @suziruffellcomedy on Instagram Suzi is on tour from June 2025 across the UK - you can find dates and purchase tickets at https://suziruffell.com/ Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where's Ray gone? He's behind you. Oh. It's not Panto yet. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I pop to Brighton to go for a stroll with the very hilarious and very adorable comedian Susie Ruffle. Susie is officially a friend of this podcast and we've been lucky enough to have her guest before. So if you want to extend your Susie fix, do go back and listen to our previous walks. And just FYI, she's also one of Ray's most diehard fans. so he was very excited to see her as he knew he was going to be guaranteed some cuddle time.

Susie is obviously a hugely successful stand-up, who you'll know from her very popular live shows, as well as her TV appearances on shows like 8 out of 10 cats and live at the Apollo. But she's also one of those people who just brings a lot of joy into a room. Being around her just kind of lifts your spirit. I mean, in Ray's case, he literally got lifted because he basically insisted she carry him around everywhere. she got played. He saw her coming a mile off. Susie's also someone who's incredibly truthful and authentic

and in fact she's just published a really beautiful, very honest and also very funny memoir called Am I Having Fun Now? Where she writes about all those things in her life that have thrown up a lot of questions for her, getting advice from experts along the way on things like her issues with anxiety, parenting and how to get over a broken heart. It's such a brilliant book and really written from the heart so I thoroughly urge you to grab a copy of Am I Having Fun Now I also can't wait for you to hear our chat as I know you're going to absolutely love her I'll stop talking now and hand over to the brilliant woman herself here's Susie and Ray Rewe Should we walk Raymond? He really likes Brighton Suze

Well yeah is he gay? 100% yeah it's the hair isn't it? It makes you think probably and also the pink lead Although I'm guessing you chose that. Well, I told you this story once that my mother got a little bit drunk. She was a dramatic actress and she cried and said, I said, what's wrong, well? She was like, I'm just very sad that I'll never have a get-e son. Because that was her dream, because she worked in the theatre.

And you know what? I like to think I've fulfilled. That's good of you. How are you? I'm really good. Good. How are you, my darling? I'm so thrilled to be here.

I'm thrilled to have you. I was actually quite worried because yesterday it was absolutely pouring with rain. And I thought, oh, we're going to have to reshedge that. Do you know what? The sun's come out. The sunshine's on the righteous. Here we are. The sunshine is out for Susie Ruffle. And we're on right on seafront. Yeah, we're on Madeira Drive.

And I'm going to say, I've just worked out. I mean, it didn't take a great deal of maths, but a lot of maths. You, this is your third time on this podcast? Is it third? Oh, that's almost too much, isn't it? Oh, I'm ever so sorry. Oh, is he allowed to have some of that water? We're passing Vox Electric Railway. But it's close today because of a train failure.

Have you been on that, Susie? Yes, of course. What is it just like a little set? It's a very little train. It's really sweet actually. We've kind of gone on there with Ray. Oh, he'd have loved it. He'd have loved it. He's into trains, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he likes a train.

So, yes, this is the third time. I'm sorry to the listeners. It almost feels like too much. I don't know how much more walking the dog chat I have. I'll try my best. Well, go on. Don't start it with such a downer Suzy. Sorry, no, carry on listening, guys.

Carry on listening. Ray's still cute. Yeah, but I have to say, the only other person I could find who'd done it as many times as you is Lee Mack. Yeah, well, me and Lee are very similar in that respect. Every time Lee comes on this podcast, he gets a dog. First time he came on, he didn't have a dog. immediately after he got a dog. Well, I'm thinking of getting a dog, so we can unpack this.

A lot of people have got a dog after coming on this. You're going to have to do it. Oh, but this is not going to advertise him well to you, Suz. He's having a poo. Yeah. Does his hair get... Is that a problem with his bum? Instead of spreading it around, that was good of him.

Well, I mean, you know, what do you mean by that? Well, he's got quite a hairy bum. You should see some of the men I think with. Well, I was going to say, you weren't frankly. goodness, I suppose. Can I just say, we've never been down that lane. Thank you very much. I was only joking. Do you know once, when he asked me to do the radio show and he enjoys this story, I'm quite ashamed of it. Okay. But when he called me, this is obviously 15 years ago and said, would you like to do a radio show with me? Apparently, the first

thing I said to him was, oh God, do you know what? I'm so relieved I never slept with you because you wouldn't be speaking to me now. You've never, you've never called me. So we're in Brighton, I'm with the wonderful Susie Ruffle, official friend of the podcast, and Raymond. Sorry, Raymond, I keep giving him his, like calling you M, but you're very much an Emily, aren't you? No, I'm an M.

Are you? Can I call you M? Yes, I love you, too. I call you Suez. Yeah, well, you're very welcome to. You're very welcome to. And I was listening back to the first time, what was I chatting about? Well, the first time Susie Ruffel,

of this podcast I mean it was awful because the first thing I said we were genuinely going we were in when you lived near sort of beckoning yes and we were in the park there and there were a lot of feathered creatures in the sky oh yeah I remember did you like birds so yeah and it sounded oh it was awful yeah it did sound quite homophobic didn't it if we're honest which is a surprise from you because you seem like such an ally with your gay dog but actually

and I remember I was thinking also you sort of picked me up on the fact I said I was sort of trying to sound like your parent and your dad or something I was going so's soes I don't mind it no so I won't be asking you about the birds today that's fine both them are fine my wife and my daughter

both my birds are all right but we've discussed please by the way I really recommend you go back and listen to Susie's previous podcasts, one in South, when you're in South London. Yep. Last time you were in, you moved to Brighton. Yes. But since then, and partly why I wanted to chat to you today is because I've read your

brilliant book. Thank you for reading it. Oh, I loved it, Sue. Oh, thanks. Well, you know what it's like writing. You've written a book. It's really exposing. Yeah, it is.

It's really exposing. It is. And it's, the worst thing someone can say is. I had a woman once, and it sort of put me off her forever. Sure. Because she said, I remember sitting there and she said, So, I read your book. And that was it.

And that was it. That's so rude. That's like if you do a stand-up show and someone says, how do you think that went? You go, just tell me I did well. I desperately need praise. Why do you think I'm doing this with my life? It's like, don't mention it.

Yeah, just don't mention it. Dreadful. Well, I have read your book, and I love to. it. Oh, thanks for reading it. And I think you're such a lovely writer, but what I loved about it as well is that we should say it's called, are we having fun yet? No, am I having fun

now, but can we start again? Please. We should say it's called, am I having fun yet? Because your book was, everyone died so I got a cat, wasn't it? Let me say it clean. She's not going to let me do it. I'm going to make you say it.

I'm going to make you say it. Okay. Right, Suez, tell us the title of your book. It's called Am I Having Fun Now? Anxiety, applause and Life's Big Questions Answered. It's got a second title. Apparently that's what we have to do. I was told to do a little second title.

Are you meant to do the second title? Well, I don't know. It was a title. And then a little title underneath the title, a subtitle. And what I love about this book. Sorry, is he just stopped so he can be carried for a bit. Yeah. He does this.

He's old now, Sus. How old is he? He's eight, and I'm getting very worried. you know. Yeah. We don't want to talk about it. No, of course. But it will happen.

Oh. And what I love about your book is that, you know, sometimes people, I think with memoirs, it's sometimes people don't manage to quite write it in their own voice. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And I think it's so in your voice, it so feels like you, it feels like chatting to you. Oh, well, thank you. Do you know, Josh Whittaker gave me a great tip

when I was writing my book. He said, as you're writing it, read it aloud because remember you'll have to do the audio book and it needs to feel natural. Oh, that's good. Which was a good thing. Can I hold him for a bit? Oh, do you want to hold him, Sue?

So much, yeah. There you go. Oh, yeah, come here, Ray. Oh, Ray, you're back where you belong. Yeah. He looks so comfy. with you do you know what I'm I'm comfy with him I feel very good having this little this little guy see that lady felt good about the little guy in my arms as well

no very cute very cute that woman said oh yeah because Susie does you do look very good with him oh well this is a thing I want a dog I want a dog but I think you look slightly better with him if I'm honest no no I won't have it sort of athletic looking and so is he No, he's not. I need like a visler. I think the contrast is what I like. Because he's a pampered little fool. Yes.

It's like Tom Allen with a rock violin or something. Yeah. And you're this seniorly athlete. I'm not an athlete. I'm the best thing from an athlete. Oh, well, that's my view of you in my head. Is it? I think I sort of look more athletic than I am, which is lucky.

Okay. Very lucky. So what's handy about this, Sus, is you writing this book, is that it maps out a lot of your basic biography as well. Sure. Sure, there's a bit of that, yeah, absolutely. So I figure, because I know a fair bit about you, but what I love about this book is that it's part memoir,

there's also kind of essays as well, on subjects that interest you and affect you, you know. That's exactly right. The way I sort of thought of it was, I didn't, I thought, oh God, am I, is it a bit grand to try and write a memoir? like I don't know there was something about it that slightly gave me the ick and then I thought well if it was through the sort of lens of anxiety so it was a book you know I didn't want to be like I didn't want it to just be all about like and then I did this and then I did that and then that happened like I felt like I wanted sort of a framework to tell the stories off or for the things to all be related somehow and then how the book came about is that I um I had been in a so the book broadly is about anxiety, I should let people know. I mean, I think that was kind of obvious. Sorry, I said the same thing about four times. You might have to make a little edit there. Just make me sound clever. Make it sound like the book's great. It is. So I'd been in a bit of

an anxiety dip for a while that I couldn't get out of. And when my anxiety is really bad, I ruminate a lot. I have obsessive thoughts. I can't really get beyond the sort of the same worries that I'm going over again and again and again. And it was, yeah, it was a bit of a bad bit. And I started looking for a book. I've always found quite a lot of solace in reading. Yeah.

Especially when my anxiety affects my sleep, I'd get up in the night and just sit and have a little read until I felt tired again. Yeah. And I was trying to find a book that would make me feel. sort of less alone about anxiety and make me feel a bit more hopeful maybe and I mean and I would also have liked for it to make me laugh and then all the books that I found about anxiety and loads of them were brilliant don't get me wrong but they felt very texty they felt like you know they were written by people who have great understanding of these things and those books are brilliant and very

important but what I was looking for was something a little bit different and I couldn't find that book and so this book is me trying to write that version of that book. Yeah. It's got genuine tips about living with anxiety, but also laughing at anxiety. It will also make you think about all kinds of different things as well of, you know, how we're all made up. And then there's genuine advice at the end of each chapter from an expert. So I speak to psychologists and psychotherapists and then sort of Elizabeth Day about career highs and lows and Dolly Auditon about how to mend a broken heart.

Oh, Dolly Alderson's great. She's great, isn't she? She was really lovely. I don't know her, you know. And she's a friend of a friend, and I just reached out from her. I said, can I interview you for my book? And she said yes. She just strikes me as very, I've only had a few, you know, things with her through.

Again, similar through people. Yeah. She just strikes me as very authentic, you know. Yeah, I like that. Do you know what? She's a woman that supports other women. 100%. We love that.

I really want a coffee. Can I get you a coffee? Oh, let's do it. We'll get them, won't we? So's this is our treat. Okay, this is my tree. Let me hold Raymond because they might not... Let's see, I don't know what the rules are.

Can we find out? Probably you can take a dog in because we're in Brighton. Oh yeah. It's so nice here. It's lovely, isn't it? What a lovely coffee shop. Shall I put him down? Right, we've got our ice coffees.

So you can't go out this way to the beach even though it looks like you can. I'm so sorry, we'll go around this way. Come on, go this way. Follow me. Genuine pebble-boot sound effects. Yeah. Should I put right down? Yeah, put him down to, so let's see what happens.

There you go Ray, you're on the beach now. Isn't this lovely? There's people playing beach volleyball over here. Yeah. You know, we could be in LA if it wasn't for the pebbles and the weather. Yeah, what's this? I think that's for people to take, like, a boat down. Maybe Ray will like it. Ray, do you want to come on this nice surface?

Ray! I feel so happy bringing him to the beach. He deserves it. Is it cold today? Oh, you've not been in yet. I love you. No, I bet. It looks so beautiful. Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it? Well, you sometimes go in the sea, don't you? No. Oh, but that I feel good. Oh, this time of year living here is just such bliss, isn't it? So lucky. Have a nice swim. Oh, this is lovely. Everyone's jolly friendly in Britain as well, that's what I'll say.

Yeah, but I would describe you as jolly friendly as well. Yeah, maybe. Don't you think you are? For a famous person, you're quite oddly friendly. Oh, I don't think I'm famous. Do you not? No, not famous. Would you say you're recognisable? Sometimes. I sort of have the level of fame where sometimes people look at me

and I can tell they're thinking, you know, were you on Live of the Apollo? Would you go to school with my brother? You know, like I'm that level of fame. But I don't know, no, no, I don't think I'm famous. Oh, God, no. Oh, God, no. Do you not like that to think of that? Oh, I don't know. There's something about it that feels a...

bit, oh. Like thinking that you're famous, I think is a bit gross. Don't you think? I see what you mean. But also, well, I mean, there was a time when I thought being famous would be very cool, but actually I think that it's, I think it'd be very stressful to be famous. I'm, I'm very content at the level that I'm at. I'm in a lovely situation where I get to do things that write a book. Occasionally I'll pop up on telly, but not loads, or do bits and bobs of TV and I get to tour and I've just got to the level where I can play proper theatres. And that's, I don't know that stand-up really gets better than proper theatres. And you don't have the sort of messes with your head stuff. I mean, yeah, and I don't get

bothered. No. You know, some of my friends are really famous and they get bothered, loads. And should we sit? Oh, that's nice. I'm just wondering if, I mean, obviously briefly this is quite nice but then people might be like can you stop marching on the breach I don't want to annoy any of our lovely listeners come on Ray Ray you just weed very close to the that's a bit rude of you actually look at his little tongue oh Suze look he's so happy to be with you and to be in Brighton yeah see you're a good boy aren't you eh you're a good little guy what's he called not his name what's the kind of breeders he um so he's an imperial shih Tzu of Of course. Sorry, I'm so sorry I didn't know.

A little bit disgusting. It's a bit rude, yeah. Yeah, he's imperial, don't you know? Of course, of course he is. So, I like an imperial collar. That's the ones that are just there, aren't they? They're nice. Are you going to come and see your friend?

Yes, look. He really likes you, Susie. How much are you brushing him? Pretty much daily. Yeah. But he's got a grooming appointment. coming up soon. Does he...

Yeah, because he must have to get the hair away from his eyes and stuff. He has to get it done regularly, yeah. And I bet he looks quite funny, wet. Oh, he looks ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, he's about that big. Yeah, he is... Yeah, he's mostly hairy, isn't he as a person?

Yeah, he is very hairy. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, but it's long hair. But then you know what? So are the Kardashians. And they've done all right out of it. They've done great out of it, haven't they?

Maybe he should be like the... face of some sort of like vitamin that's good for your hair. You know? You're like how mere cats are now linked to car in, sure it. That makes no sense. You do so well. Does he sleep on your bed? Oh, absolutely.

Do you sleep in your bed? Absolutely. Yeah. I don't understand these people. So show the dog who's boss and don't let them sleep on the bed because then they'll get ideas above their stay. It's like, well, I wouldn't treat anyone like that. I mean, if I'm going to let someone in my house,

I've slept in your bed loads of times. Emily, I'm just going to have run that a kiff in your bed as that okay. There you go straight in the bed. It wasn't an unusual dinner party, but you know what? It was lovely. Look, if you're welcome in my house, come plumbers, come on. You are welcoming that. You will be expected to top and tail.

But other than that, it's really nice. Oh, dear. I don't think I realised until I've realised, until I've realised. your brilliant book recently, how, just how much kind of anxiety was such a defining thing, wasn't it, throughout your life? From a really young age, you really struggled with it. And it seems like there was this incident when your granddad died. And that was like a real, almost like a tipping point for you, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like, well, yeah, I guess the catalyst initially for, for the anxiety. I mean, I think that my brain is just sort of wired that way. So that's, that's a

That is why the, that I am someone that is experiencing so much anxiety. But yeah, I mean, for a long time, I was quite ashamed of how much anxiety I had. I think that, you know, grew up in the sort of 90s and early naughties, it wasn't something that was spoken about. Mental health has not discussed at my school one bit. I felt kind of ashamed for the overthinking, the intrusive thought. Like, I thought that people would, I thought people would think I was mad. Yeah.

You know, I thought people would think that I was totally mad if I told them, really. And it took me a long time to sort of, A, unpack that and then be sort of, get rid of the shame. And just, and be a bit kinder to myself. And how did it used to manifest itself? Was it, did it feel like panic attacks? Yes, I've had panic attacks. Then it feels like dread, like something's about to happen, like something terrible is about to happen. And you're just sort of waiting for it to happen.

happen and then you know it doesn't usually because that's the whole thing of anxiety is your body sort of goes into this your body's like we're about to go to war and then you're not going to war you know you're not going into um but but it's well you haven't got a sort of saber-toothed tiger chasing you exactly yeah and that's the evolutionary thing that you look into yeah is that why we are like that or when you get it in an extreme form like you is that why your body responds like that well yeah that was a really interesting thing where I did sort of deep dives into anxiety and as I said I spoke to so many experts. I talked to Dr. Kieran Snack.

He was brilliant. And we were, oh, look for Ray. He's such a good boy, isn't he? He's such a good boy. A good, fluffy, ridiculous little guy. He's got a lot of female energy, I feel. Yeah. Yeah.

He's just ridiculous and lovely. I just love him. Oh, that makes my day you say that. When he came home to you, is he tiny? You're obsessed. I'm obsessed with him. Why do you think you are? Because I want a dog.

You've come to the right podcast. Yeah, I mean, we pretty much plugged the book. Please buy the book. That'd be great. No, we're going to talk. Excuse me. We will be discussing. I want to talk.

What dog should I get? What are you after? So you like Raymond? What do you like? Think about what appeals to you about Raymond? Good vibes. Yeah? Good vibes.

I would want a dog a bit big. I understand that. I'm quite tall. You know? I've also got a five-year-old so I feel like I need a dog that's a bit more robust. Is that fair? Again, fair point. Fair point. I'm thinking greyhound. What's your vibe? No, not greyhound. Whippet? What's your vibes on a whip it? What about, have you thought of an Italian greyhound? No, because they're so little and they shake so much. I think it's because their brains are so small. That's my, that's my take you know, they're like, everything, is everything okay? I don't want a pet that's more anxious than me.

Do you mean the last thing I need is to have somebody else's bad mental health in my house? My wife's got enough to deal with. She simply can't have a dog that's pissing under the table because it's so nervous. I'm already pissing under the table, you know. I understand that. I can really see you guys with a whip pit. Yeah, right? They're beautiful dogs.

Yeah, great dogs. Don't need too much exercise. Apparently they're like a cuddle. That's me. The exercise. Quite athletic without doing much exercise. You need quite a bit of exercise. That's all right.

I've got a ball. Don't want to brag, but I've got a ball. I could chuck that for him. I'm going to draw off a list for you. Are you? Yeah. If anyone's listening that breeds Whippets, do get in touch. Rep.

Rep. We don't want to go to a puppy farm. And we might consider one way. And rescues will be considered. Of course. We do like a rescue. Of course. But I don't, you know, it's interesting.

I never judge people for not getting a rescue, a rescue because it depends on and I'm always really open at that people you know because I often get people saying you know it's wrong that you didn't because Ray's not rescue dog but then I hate it when people do that because it's like I don't know why we have to that's okay that's your feelings on something that's fine yeah yeah so you do that yes I don't like people go well you should have done this thing and you go well no I've still given a dog a really lovely home I know I find and it's quite upsetting because it's almost saying oh he doesn't have a right to be here.

Well, also, he only existed in the world. You know, it's not like you went to a laboratory. I just gave from a more glamorous life. But you know what it is? I think also it's because you don't know people's reasons. And for my reasons, it was because I just had a lot of funerals. I was a bit funeralled out. And I thought, all the dogs, I just thought I don't want a dog at the end stage of his life.

Yeah, that's really understandable. Also, Ray's always in black. So when you were experiencing that grief, it was nice that someone was going to go. It's permanently in mourning. Yeah, he's like Queen Victoria. It's got quite golf vibes as well. Quite what? Golf vibe.

Goth. I thought he said golf. And I was like, I don't know how those things are linked, but I'll run with it. He likes to sit in front of Susie. You love your Susie Ruffle, don't you? Why do you love her? Because she's so fabulous. Yeah, so, well, I'll get back to you on the dogs thing.

Okay, great. If you can reach out. Well, you know, it's been proven that children really benefit from having a dog in the home. Yeah, totally. Have you read that, so? Yeah, yeah. And also my daughter's an only child,

so I feel like it'd be nice for her to have a little hairy mate. I think it really is. I think it's nice to... Well, that's partly why Frank's, you know, he got a dog. Right. And Buzz, they have Poppy now, the Cockapoo, who's lovely. And Buzz was just desperate for a dog. Well, you see, we have my mum's dog quite a lot.

Ron. Ron would be good friends with Raymond. Run. Your mum... Am I right in thinking because there was Cocoa the Poodle when you were growing up? Oh my God, that's incredible that you have that knowledge. Yes, Cocoa the Poodle. Now, Ron is also...

Cocoa's no, I mean, if he was, it would be in the Guinness World Book Records. He... Ron is a Poodle cross, a bison frousse. He's... He's... he's... actually, he's... he's very pretty. But he did like the Sky Man the other day. that's quite a sort of 80s thing like personally a dog biting

a tradesperson is quite old school and the sky man yeah and my mum went and you know he was really annoyed about it I said you're asked what he was mum she went oh I thought he'd laugh it off

I was like no mum your dog bit him I know that you think that your dog can do no harm even when he's biting people I mean I think he just nipped him to be fair before anyone gets in touch but yeah of course he wasn't happy about her but it's because there was a man in the house and Ron is little. He has Napoleon. Is it Napoleon syndrome?

Where if a man comes near my mum, he's like, why are you going near my mum? Why are you going near my mum? Come on then. My man, the skyman is going near my mum. And does your mum? Oh, okay. But your mum is really into dogs, isn't she? She's very into Ron. She can, you know, she'll say to me, she brings him up. So she comes up on a Wednesday to hang out with, often me and always my daughter. and she'll say to me she'll text me and say we're on the train Ron's being a good boy she just loves Ron so Ron sometimes stays and I think that's what's put the idea in our heads that we just think it would be very nice we liked having Ron and my daughter was so happy she would sit on the sofa with him and just say I love you so much I'm actually crying

that makes me cry Susie so I'm like she needs your own dog oh no that's maybe me cry. What's that? Menopause. I can't. That's made me actually cry. Yeah, I cry a lot, though. It's things like children expressing love for animals. That's the Venn diagram. I don't know. Is there something so pure about it? It's so pure. Where's Raygon?

He's behind you. Oh. Well, it's not Panto yet. Ray's auditioning. He's such a Biggins. Yeah, he's such. Do you know, Kristen Biggins once asked me and Tom Allen if we were a couple. Isn't that the funniest thing? I've always said this gay dog's a bit on the bridge. I was like, me and Tom Allen, are you joking?

Butch Casti and the Sundance kid. And I'm Butch in that scenario. Ridiculous. I mean, I'd expected of some but bigans. Talk about letting the side down. Yeah, I mean, come on. So he laughs, isn't it? What are you saying?

Yes, yes, the purity of the, I think there's something really lovely about that. But I also... Oh my gosh, we're my cat dart. So we asked cat d'ad. Yeah, Valma dives. Oh, because last time you came on, Susie. Velma was sort of still just about with us. She was still knocking around, yeah.

When, oh my gosh, when she died, having to explain that all to my daughter was absolutely heartbreaking. And then about three months later, I was putting her to bed. And she said to me, I still miss Velma. And I said, so do I.

And she said, but you know what, we've all got used to the idea of her not being here. And then I had to leave the room to cry. You crying? Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. If anyone's got any HRT,

do you send him to the show. Put the patches on this morning. Ruffles broken me. She's basically swimming in that gel. I'm going to have to speak to the jeeping. I'm going to need some ruffle-proof patches. Do you know what? What?

Well, I'll tell you. Yeah, go on. You always make me laugh, but you're really making me laugh today. That's good. I don't know what? I got in really late last night, and I've had quite a bad night's sleuth, so I think I'm... You know where you're sort of slightly on the edge?

You're a bit manicly funny. I'm a bit like, ah! Do you know, there was a bit in your book when, well it's actually at the beginning when you're talking about you're losing your granddad

I don't mind this we should say I know what you're meant to do is wait for the praise to go but you know what this isn't a sitcom with Felicity Kendall in the 80s we don't need to observe this things are a bit more natural now

so that's like a little plane oh it's a bike plane is it? Yes and I imagine that I'd be going to Lansing What about Biggin Hill? Oh, it could be going to Biggins Hill. It could be going to Biggins, Biggins Hill. And my mother-in-law lives right by the little airfield.

Biggins looking at pictures of Jojo from a Straitly come dancing saying, Are you stray? Who's your lovely girlfriend? Biggins. So are you married to Katia? But yeah, you talk about, it was just interesting that that came up about your daughter's reaction to Velma dying, because you sort of had a human version of this, obviously when you lost your granddad.

And I was really fascinated by that, that your parents were so well-meaning because they wanted to protect you from pain. So their way of dealing with it at the time was to say... And you would have been how old, Suez? Seven. Seven, right? And so they said he's in a better place.

Yeah. Which I think that's terrible young language to use for a child. Because you go, well, what's better than being here with me? Yeah. And also, like, he's got... on to sleep and then you think, well, I'm, I'm going to go to sleep. I mean, I don't know, I mean, you've obviously, you obviously experienced a lot of loss and I don't know how you doubt with it, or whether you're religious at all, or how you cope with it. But I sort of, I sort of go

with the facts and just sort of go, well, we don't really know what happens when someone dies, but I like to imagine. Maybe she's up there with, you know, I say to my daughter's, like, maybe, you know, Verma's up there with Mynan and you know and so she's and so but I think that sort of oh the sort of slightly fluffy language I think actually can just be quite confusing yeah I totally agree I think it's I think what happens and again I'm so fascinated in how you're approaching parenting because it's this thing of our instinct I suppose is to shield and and protect kids from difficult information like that. I mean, I don't have my own kids,

but I know from my own experience with my nieces when my sister died, it was just speaking to people about, how old were they? So Mimi was, she was 10 and Bertie was one. Oh my gosh, that's so little. Well, it's a very different thing because Bertie, of course. Well, they're like opposite sides

of understanding anything. And Bertie, interestingly, we've had to make a real effort to sort of make a feel included in that loss oddly because Mimi and I will often talk about my sister. Of course. And she'll say, oh, do you remember when mum did this? Do you remember when mum did that? And I'm aware that Bertie, it's just a sort of bunch of photos to her.

So we really have to make an effort. We call her her name. We call her mummy Rachel. That's what they suggested. Don't just call her mum, give her the name. So you get a sense of her being a whole person and all that sort of stuff. I think what was so interesting about what you wrote is how just kids will fill in the blanks.

If you don't tell them the truth, they'll fill in the blanks and come up with sometimes very troubling alternative ideas. Like you did, didn't you? You almost started to think you'd cause your granddad to die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the first line of the book when I was seven, I killed my granddad.

And that's, I kind of liked it being a bit. I mean, I didn't. But that is sort of how I felt for a bit. I sort of, and it doesn't make any sense, but then when you're a kid, nothing really makes sense. Do you know what I mean? There's all these rules and there's these, oh, we do this, you know, oh, we have Christmas on Christmas Day, why?

Because Christmas Day. Oh, okay, like, you know, I know that it's linked to religion, but in our house it wasn't. Yeah. So nothing ever, nothing really makes sense. So I thought, oh, maybe if I hadn't gone to a sleep over that night, my granddad wouldn't have died. And I became sort of convinced.

of that and then I didn't sleep away from my mum for nearly a decade because I was so worried she was going to die when I was like I was protecting her somehow and then I mean I think this is quite common with people that have sort of intrusive thoughts or sort of ruminate a lot but I would sort of feel like I had to make deals with the world so I'd think like if I can outrun that bus everyone will stay safe tonight and if I can climb up to the top of the stairs on the banister without touching the floor and holding my breath, that will mean that this will happen. And if I swing the cord from the light this many times, it will mean that this is like,

you know, and it's, it is, you know, that's all linked to an anxiety disorder. Not that my parents had the language for it and not that I really told my parents. Because in my head I'd sort of decided that part of keeping the secret of it was how I was sort of controlling the world. Not controlling the whole world. But controlling the little, our house. I was going, well, I'm doing all these things, so my brother's safe and I'm safe and nanny's not going to die. My nan looked very elderly for a very long time because she'd had stomach cancer, so she

had three quarters of her stomach removed, so she was really skinny, and she lived into she was 95, but for the sort of, the last 25 years of her life, she was like a size six, she was dinky. So she was kind of visibly frail. Yeah, visibly frail. And so I was always worried about her dying, even though, my. my gosh, her constitution, her doctor would be like, oh my God, Joan, you're incredible. You're like, wonderful. He'd call her Wonder Woman. She used to go in and have all these injections because she didn't have a pancreas anymore,

but she just, she was absolutely fine. I felt like I needed to keep her safe, and I'd have to go and check on her, then I'd have to check again. And, you know, it's really exhausting having that sort of anxiety disorder where you've got to keep checking things, making sure it, it's a real pain in the ass. it's really to begin with it's because you can't tell anyone either

I think that must be even more exhausting because it's like well it's like having something like autism or ADHD when you're masking all the time people aren't aware that of their sort of you know it's like the paddling duck's legs underneath all the time when other people are relaxing you're never really relaxing

no and I think yeah that's exactly right that's exactly right and I think that I was also very ashamed I was very ashamed that my brainwork like that. And you know that and shame is very harmful as we as we all know but you know then I think it linked to having sort of a secret so I had this secret about my anxiety and my and how I was controlling in inverted commas the world but then when I was you know a bit older not not that much old 11 or 12 you know that when I realised my sexuality and when I realised I was gay it was then it became

Oh my God, I can't tell people this. There's another secret about me, and this is deeply shameful, and I don't want to be this. And I'm really embarrassed that I'm this, and I'm going to try and trick myself into not being this person, because I don't want this. I don't want to be gay, I don't want to be different. Listen, I've got a wife, so you can't change it. Turns out, there's nothing you can do. But I do try.

Well, you, again, I found this, you know, it's those little details, and that's what I love about your book, is sometimes that, The big things are in the small details. Often that's where there's things that sort of hit you a bit. And there was a thing, and I don't think it was intended to be sort of, you know, I don't know if it was meant to affect me as much as it did, but it was when you were getting posters in your bedroom. And we'll get on to Kate Winslet in a minute.

But everyone else. She's going to, like, I've spoken about Kate Winslet so much. She will be in touch soon. Just so everyone knows there is a chapter called, do Kate Winslet make me gay? And the answer is pretty sure she did. I guess I guess so is the answer. But you had posters on your wall of Leonardo DiCaprio

because every other girl had that. And then there was, you'd managed to find one where Kate was in it. Yeah. And I just, I don't know, something about that kind of moved me in a way. Yeah, I tried to keep pictures of Kate in where I could so no one would realise, but that I'd have a picture of her. am I am. Yeah, sort of adorable, tragic?

Sure, maybe. But you know what? It's lovely to kind of be open about that now. Well, I also, when I was interviewing Owen O'N. O'Kane, who's a really brilliant psychologist that I spoke to for the book, one thing he said, which actually, after I interviewed him, I was still working on the book. And it sort of made me go back through the book and be more honest in moments. Because he said to me, the thing is, when you bring shame into the light,

It can't thrive. Yeah. And that was such a sort of moving thing for me to hear. And then I thought, oh, do you know what? I'm going to be really sort of, I'm going to be brutally, radically honest about all these feelings because for such a long time, I was really ashamed that I had this anxiety disorder.

I was really ashamed that I was gay. I really, really didn't feel like I was enough. And it was horrible. And, you know, everyone's enough. You don't need to be a certain amount for your life to be meaningful to a while. other peoples. So once I started being that honest and started talking about my feelings, I sort of couldn't stop. It was like I'd uncorp something. And then I

would just, and actually it's been really liberating. But now I've got the thing where people like you just said to me, I really enjoyed the book and I go, hello, people are reading it. It's really scary. Yeah. Does that make you feel a bit kind of vulnerable? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's it's, it's yeah. I mean, it's the most honest thing I've ever written. It's like my mum read it and I think she found it really hard. Like she found, she was like, oh, I read your book. And I was like, oh, right, what did you think?

And she went, yeah, it was good. I mean, it was quite a hard read for me. And I was like, oh, sorry. And she was like, no, no, I think people like it. It's very honest. And that was sort of all she said about it. But I know she's really proud of me and proud that I wrote it. But I think that, you know, it is, I am really sort of putting it all out there.

But then that's the sort of stuff that I love. The sort of stand up that I love is when people are honest and sort of, and really tell us something about what it's like to be them in the world. The sort of books that I love are the same, where you do talk about the ugly bits. And so that's what I've tried to do. But now we're writing it's one thing and then other people reading it as a mother. Yeah.

Did you feel like that? I really did. I mean, I was Googling. And I tell people this when they're at this stage because no one talks about that enough. And I think you see people, particularly, I mean, listen, some people write books and good luck to them, and it's much more my fabulous life, and it's light, and it's on one level. And I have a huge amount of respect for people that write those books, and if anything, I'm envious of them.

I couldn't do that, and I don't think you could. It just wouldn't work for me. But writing the kind of book that you've written, and I had a similar thing where I was Googling. I honestly not joking, it was the week before, and I took a screenshot of it, and I took a screenshot of it, kept it. But you know that anxiety and that madness you talk about? And I was schooling how much cost to pulp

book run, how much pay printers? Like I wanted to stop it, to get the book and I was going to pay for that. I was going to finance this. How much would it have cost? I mean, I ended up and the madness up all night.

It was three in the morning. Oh no, it's probably going to be more than that. Oh God. It's three in the morning, I'm just absolutely going insane and there's like weird printing houses. Well, yeah, it did really well, but it was one of those things where it was the fear. It was that fear of being judged. And I realized, and I'm sure you'll find this, is that the things that someone gave me a piece of advice, someone who'd written a lot and said, you know the thing that you're most worried about,

the thing that's keeping you up at night, there's probably two or three bits in that book that you still feel a little bit uncomfortable about. And this writer said to me, those are the bits that people will write to you about in 10 years' time and so that changed my life. And do you know what? He was right. Really? I still get people.

It was the thing that I wanted to take out. So interesting, isn't it? Had you had things, I'm sure, that you thought, I wish I could take this out. Maybe I shouldn't have said this. Yeah. They are the things that will change people's lives in a way, like they'll read it and say,

oh my god you felt that too yeah I think so there are bits certainly when I talk about sort of becoming a parent and and there's a lot of stuff about coming out and about I mean there's a chapter where I sort of describe a breakup

in sort of glorious technical colour about how awful I felt and then I sort of think I wonder if my ex-girlfriend will read it and then I kept going on it through it being like I'm not mean I don't think I'm mean about her like it's definitely me that's the issue in the relationship but also you know she wasn't perfect because none of us are but I kept

going through that and being like oh would she be I don't want her to hate me um not that we're really friends anymore or anything but and I kept going back and forth whether it was a good thing to share so explicitly how broken my heart was but then I thought oh well when I when my heart was that broken I really wanted to consume any media about having a broken heart I really wanted to cry about someone else's broken heart and so I thought well maybe someone will read that when their heart's broken and feel a bit better because someone else has experienced it

I think that would be a great business model I might do that is just if you just hired yourself up as the person someone could call instead of their ex oh that's a great idea call me instead of your ex great and then give the number and it's just like you can and you know what we can stay in the forensic room and we can keep on having the same conversation.

It's the way he did it. No, or she did it. No, it's not. It's that they did it. But you're not at that point yet. So I'll agree with you for now and so it's the way they did it. Your job as a friend is to agree with everything.

Yes. Don't you think? Yeah, but what about when people break up with their partners and they get back with them and you've slagged them off? I mean, that's the worst. And you go, do you know what? I've always thought it was a right prick. And you go, oh, you're back together.

Do you know what? I'm really pleased you're giving him another chance because he's, Yeah, no one's perfect, no way. Oh, God, it's awful. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it.

And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.