Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Tim Peake

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

Emily and Raymond head to London’s Regent's Park to take a walk with actual astronaut, Tim Peake! Tim chats about his dog Woody, reflects on his childhood dreams and the journey that led him to spending six months on the International Space Station. And, of course, Emily finds out whether Tim thinks Ray would be a good space dog! Tim Peake’s latest book Space: The Human Story is out now published by Penguin. For more info visit: https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/239553/tim-peakeSpace: The Human Story marks the first time that the human history of space has been told, illustrated through the stories of the 628 individuals that have left Earth over the past 60 years including Tim himself. With details only an astronaut would know and is based on extensive research alongside hundreds of conversations Peake has had with his fellow astronauts, Space: The Human Story is the definitive story of humans in space, marking Peake’s first foray into writing 20th century history.Listen to Emily's walk with Jeremy Paxman from August 2020Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Walking The Dog is a Goalhanger Podcast brought to you by Petplan: visit petplan.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Walking the dog is sponsored by Pet Plan, who pay 97% of all the claims they receive. Pet Insurance can be a confusing business, but I think ultimately it's all about the quality of the vet fee cover provided. Pet Plan cover things other insurers don't and can pay your vet directly, so you get to spend your cash on other essentials. No, Raymond, that doesn't include dog biscuits. Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet Plan is a trading name of Allian's Insurance PLC. Oh, honestly, some of your behaviour. Are you talking to Raymond there or me?

This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I went for a stroll in London's Regents Park with astronaut Tim Peep. Tim's rescue dog Woody was back home in Chichester, so Raymond got Tim all to himself, and they really hid it off. He even said Raymond would make the perfect astronaut because of his ability to communicate simply with

the look. Although let's be honest, what he's mainly saying is have you got cheese? I adored Tim. He's just the ultimate example of a nice guy finishing first. And he's also written a brilliant book called Space, which is all about what makes astronauts tick and the human stories behind space exploration. So I really urge you to have a read. I so hope you enjoy my walk with Tim. And don't forget to subscribe to walking the dog. I'll hand over to the man himself. Here's Tim and Raymond. And Tim, what does that sign say? So it says no dogs except assistance dogs. Well, you're an astronaut.

Yeah. I don't know if you know that. And I think you're good at problem solving. So what would you advise? This is like a cockpit scenario and the alarms are going off. What should we do? We either ignore the advice completely and crack on. We don't tend to do that much in space.

You know, we get into trouble if we do that. We either abide by the rules and we turn around and go somewhere, different or we think how we can work within the rules and make Raymond an assistance dog. Do you know I think I want to like you, Tim Peek? What you're saying is we'll get away with it if I carry him. There you go. Okay, let's go. I am so excited to be with you. I'm in Regents Park, London's Regents Park and I'm with, you might be the most exciting guest I've ever had on. That's very kind of you say. I think that's true. Well, it's great to be with you. What a lovely way to do a podcast walking in the fresh air as well.

Let me, to give you official title, Military Pilot. Yes. Author. Yes. And this is the bit I love. Actual astronaut. I'm glad you said actual. Most people say real life astronaut.

And I always think it is very strange because you're like, well, yes, of course I'm a real life astronaut. I am alive. But I'm glad you said actual astronaut. That's much better. I think you should put that on your social media bio. Are you a major, Tim? Yeah, so I was a major when I left active service. I'm an honorary colonel in the Army Air Corps now.

So yes, so I'm still in the military in that respect. So it's Tim Peek, as if you didn't know. We're going to talk about a lot today. We're going to do the Tim Peake Origin Story. But we're also going to talk about your fabulous book space, which I've just read. and I absolutely loved it. Well, thank you. I don't want you to take this the wrong way,

but I didn't think I would love it. Well, that makes you a fantastic candidate then. Because I'm always, you know, people who love space, then that's great if they enjoy it because they kind of think, oh, great, you know, you've got an audience there that they know their subject matter and they like it. So that kind of, you can breathe the sigh of relief.

But I love it when people aren't expecting to enjoy it and then they come back and tell me that, so thank you. But first, let's kick off and explain We're with Raymond my Shih Tzu today. You laughed when I mentioned him. Why is that, Tim Peep? I know, he's lovely. He's just such a character.

Look at him. He's got a bit of a shiver, though. Is he a bit chilly? Hello, Raymond. Hello, mate. There you are. I think it'll be more comfortable with you holding him. I've grabbed you whilst you in London, but your manner is...

We live down near Chichester and West Sussex. Yeah, so I've kind of gone back to my roots. That's where I grew up. left school at 18 and went and joined the army. And after, you know, more than 30 years, I seem to have come full circle and back to where I started. But you do have a dog, don't you? We do. Yeah, we've got a rescue pup.

He's called Woody. And when we went to the kind of the dog rescue charity, dogs and homes, and we were really looking for a small female dog. I think that's what Rebecca and my wife really wanted. And we came with, back with Woody. Why did you want female? I think Rebecca just has a thing about male dogs.

I don't think she likes the way they pee. She lives with three other boys now because me and two teenage sons. And so, yeah, perhaps it's not just the dogs. But no, Woody has turned out to be a 37-kilogram male. He's all boy and very boisterous, but he's lovely. He's very well-natured. He just loves to play. And sometimes you just have to remind him when he plays that he is 37.

kilograms. So he has to take it a little bit easy sometimes. But no, he's great fun. Are you a dog person, Tim? Yeah, I never grew up with dogs. I mean, growing up, we didn't really have pets, had a fish and then had a rabbit. And that was the extent of it. But Rebecca and I, since we've been married, pretty much, we've had a dog. So we had Foss was our first dog, a Rhodesian ridgeback. She was a rescue dog as well. She was a cross with something. but she very much had the ridge back ridge and now Woody. So, yeah, I think having a dog in the family is lovely. We enjoy it. It gets us out.

It keeps us active. And I think it's great company for young kids as well. Well, I think it's good for kids as well because it sort of is a great responsibility thing, isn't it? It's kind of like, okay, we have to get into a routine as well. Teach the kids that. Yeah, absolutely. You have to look after someone else. You have to take care of their needs.

And that responsibility is important. So no, I think it is very good. And also on that kind of emotional connection as well, you can see in the evenings when we're watching a movie and Woody comes and curls up next to them, it's lovely. And they had that real emotional connection to an animal. You grew up in Chichester, as you say, and it was Raymond, what are you doing?

Don't crowd the astronaut. I think Raven should be walk between us. Do you want to do that way? Have some respect Raymond. I'll walk on the other side of you. This man has done extra vehicular activity. He can have his own area there. I know, I know.

He's got no respect. I'm so sorry to him. What do you think of his walk? It's great. He's fantastic. If his hair was a little bit longer, he'd sweep leaves as well as he went by. We just need to let it grow a little bit.

He'd be good in space because he's so small. It'd be fantastic. Yeah, he'd be with the little bit. perfect space dog actually yeah really really good yeah might get a little bit warm on the space station forum I'd have to give him a haircut well you had one so growing up dad journalist mum midwife yeah yeah I've really had the impression that your childhood was immensely calm and stable and happy yes it was yeah we didn't move house at all so lived in the same streets grew up with the same kids

and it was a very safe environment. We were kind of on an estate, but with a kind of cul-de-sac street, ours was, lots of countryside around. We would go off on bike riding, a bunch of kids for hours at a time on a weekend. And, you know, there's that ability to go off and explore, I think was really fantastic.

And I just loved growing up in that environment. Your mum was quite sort of organised, wasn't she? Very. She was a guy's nurse. trained as a guy's nurse. So you can imagine the discipline and the organisation. Did you have that? Is that a quality you think you've got from your mum? I think that yes, in terms of that kind of organisation and discipline, I think certainly rubbed off on me and we didn't live in the biggest house in the world. So, you know,

we had to be organised and tidy and not cluttered and chaotic. And so that kind of is the the person I am, I like to be structured and organized and methodical. I'm not a kind of clean freak by any stretch at all, but I do like a tidy desk and, you know, I have to, I have to be very organised in how I work. That's how I work most efficiently. Yeah, I can imagine you were someone whose toys were quite neat and why they, your Lego space sets? They probably were they neat. I probably didn't think about at the time and I'm sure I wasn't a model kid who cleaned up after themselves. But I think there was just a necessity of, you know, the way you live, you have to pack your stuff away once you're finished with it because there wasn't room to do

anything else. You know, if you wanted to do something else, pack one thing away, get something else out. And so that's what I kind of tend to do today. And how was, I'm interested in people that go into the army, which you obviously did, and you went to sound to us, but did, what was there, how was discipline enforced at home? Because it was obviously something you were comfortable with. You were okay with authority. Yeah, it wasn't a strict household at all. I never remember, you know, discipline being enforced in that respect. Again, it's that kind of calmness, I think, and that understanding.

And I think if you are part of any team and you see family as a team sport, then you're kind of encouraged to be a good team player. You know, it's in everybody's interest. And so I think it was almost that level of understanding. and parenting is kind of everybody working together and pulling together. And you weren't one of those kids who would stare out at the window dreaming about space. You didn't have that sort of romantic astronaut's start, did you? No, I mean, I did look up to the stars and I kind of, I did wonder about the big questions and things,

but not with a view of one day I want to travel into space, I want to be an astronaut. Mine was kind of that curiosity that I think we all go through at various points. our lives when we you know we kind of do think about our origins and think about the bigger picture so i've always been fascinated with that that's never left me but in terms of a career for me it was all about flying and that took over in my teenage years more so than becoming an astronaut well when you went to a i think you're on a summer holiday in spain or something and there's an adorable story about you the entertainer at the holiday resort wasn't he asking all the kids what they wanted to do when they grew up and what did you say yeah so i think i said an airportist which i had no idea what an

airport was about five years old and i'd just been on my first flight uh and the whole experience was so overwhelming and so exciting you know airports and uh and getting on an aircraft and runways and taking off and i just thought i want to do something that involves aviation so i'll be an airportist as if that was a job you ended up going into the army and you went to Sandhurst, which is sort of the best place to go, really, isn't it, in terms of military? But you weren't very academic at school, Tim? No, no, I didn't. Certainly wasn't an A-star student.

You know, did maths, physics and chemistry at A-level and should have got a lot better grades than I did. I kind of took my foot off the gas and my eye off the ball, if you like. I think that was partly because I had a place at Sandhurst before I sat my exams. And as long as I scraped two A-levels, you know, that was really. I was going into the Royal Military Academy. And, oh dear, Raymond, was that you? Tim. This is where I can stand back.

And as I am not responsible for Raymond. Come on, you're good at picking up poos and confined spaces. I've heard all about you. You know what goes on in space. You should be used to this by now, the pooing. We normally have to hit the bag, though, before it happens. So the good news is it's not going anywhere. The poo.

If that was in space, you've got a nightmare. If you miss the target, you know, it's bouncing around all over the place. Tim, I'm trying to find this relatable. But guess what? I'm not going to be in space any time soon. Certainly not with the pooing shih Tzu. Right, let's pick his poo up, Tim. They're quite small, aren't they?

They're very dainty, yeah, yeah. I bet you didn't say that to any of your other astronauts. Right. So what are we talking about, Tim? I got a C, D, and an E. I'm very happy to say that. I was forecast, I think, in my mocks of B, B and a C, which still wasn't brilliant, but better than a C, D and E. So, but when I tell that story, when I go around and talk to kids and I kind of suddenly see their eyes light up because there they thought,

wow, hang on a second. You know, we had you down as triple A star, maybe four A levels, all the rest of it. And I do then, you know, quantify that by saying I've never worked harder since leaving school. But my route is not the easiest route to take, but it does just go to show that it, you know, poor grades at A level doesn't have to be the end of the story. Or poor grades at GCSE doesn't have to be the end of the story. People learn at different parts of their lives and people get different inspiration for learning at different times in the life. And sometimes at school it's hard to relate to you know what you want to do in life and if that happens in your early mid-20s then so be it I was gonna say I think that

would be very inspiring although I can imagine the school were absolutely bloody furious it's like that damn Tim Peek I know the teacher's nightmare however they did name a building off to you 20 years later they did at Chichita High School yes yeah they did name a building up I was very very honored to to go there in that building yeah you joined the military and I feel like it was an absolutely natural fit for you there wasn't it it was yeah I've always felt comfortable in that environment when I first joined the cadets at school it just clicked and it was an environment I knew I wanted to be in and you know I loved the army life and I love flying so army aircourse seemed to be the way to go and I loved my time at

Sandhurst and never looked back really. Whenever I hear about the army, it just sounds terrifying. In terms of you have to get up so early, they shout at you, you have to make your bed and all those documentaries really frightened. Yeah, I mean, certainly in basic training, the first five weeks at Sandhurst is not pleasant. It's physically shattering and they are really, it's old school. they're trying to break you down before building you back up again.

And I think part of that as well is that it's no point trying to train somebody or trying to get somebody to go and have a military career unless they are going to truly enjoy it and be passionate about what they do. And that first five weeks test you. If you can't hack the first five weeks, then you're not going to enjoy a military life. So better to find that out soon, sooner rather than later. What's going on here? Well, you've done a lot of psychological training as an astronaut.

Yeah. Raymond has stopped dead. What do you think, do you think this is fear? Or rebellion. Who knows? Who knows? I wouldn't like to say, Raymond, what's going on? Come on, Sunshine.

Have you done your walking for the day? Shall I carry him? I think it's rebellion. Yeah. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Happened on Skylab 3, they say. didn't really. I mean, the press reported it as a rebellion. I feel, I feel bad for the Skylab

three crew because they didn't really rebel. They were, they were being asked to work really, really hard and in a stressful environment and kind of said, look, we just can't do 16 hour days back to back with everything you've got to, you know, got scheduled just for us to do. And Skylab 3, just in case people, can you explain what that is? So Skylab. Is you right about this in space? That's right. Yeah, Skylab was a space station that, um, It was the US's first kind of proper space station, really, after the Apollo era and the moon landings. And the Russians were experimenting with their space stations as well. And so Skylab was made out of an old bit of a Saturn 5 rocket, the upper stage of a Saturn 5 rocket.

And they had three crews go there. The first crew had a real problem in just getting it up. and running because it was damaged on the way into space. The solar panel was damaged and the first crew had to mend it and repair it. Second crew ended up getting loads of science done, being really successful and really laying down the gauntlet in what could be achieved. And so when the third crew went up, everyone was buoyed up, you know, this crew is going to do everything that the second crew did and more. And it doesn't work like that. Sometimes some crews just knock it out the park and it's really hard to follow. I remember Peggy Whitson and her crew on the space

station they arrived and Peggy's a phenomenal astronaut very experienced she's done 10 EVAs space walks and more time in space than any American and more most the woman with most time in space and you know it's an impossible act to follow and so sometimes you just have to accept that some crews you know work better than others and so the the Skylab 3 crew got a hard time I just want to say I think what I loved about your book and what I love about it's not past tense, but is that it was the human stories and aspects of people that have been in space. People say, what is an astronaut like? The answer is there is no answer to that because they're all such individuals.

And the human stories and the fact that they were presented as just regular people with flaws. Yeah, absolutely. Warts and all. Yeah, I think that's the point, that ordinary people being asked to do it. an extraordinary job. And yeah, you've got to have a certain skill set to pass the selection. But really, I mean, you know, everybody's got their flaws. And I think that's the point. Some of these stories really identify that. And it makes them more relatable. It makes them more human. And ultimately, I think that's what we want. We, you know, we're humans. We're storytellers. We like to know about experiences that other humans have. We like to know. We like to know.

know about the smells and the sounds and the sites and the different cultures and things. And so that's what I tried to get across in the book really, was that human element. I wanted to ask, when you, just to get back to your timeline, seems like, as I say, you really flourished at St.hurst, didn't you? And in the military, and you discovered that the Army Air Corps was what you wanted to, that was the area you wanted to specialize in. It was sort of being a military pilot. Yes, essentially. The army have helicopters and the army role was twofold.

We had gazelle helicopters which were light reconnaissance. So they are out there to move quickly around the battlefield, low level, spotting the enemy, or guiding artillery fire or bringing in fast jets, that kind of stuff. And then the Lynx helicopters at the time was they had troop carrying capability and anti-tank weapons as well. So Army Air Corps was all about supporting the army. Like I say, I feel you really flourish there. And what interested me, though, is I didn't know, Tim Peep, that you were such a prankster. I think everybody in the military has got this sense of humour. You know, there's banter. Practical jokes are a huge part of life there.

hunter and there's taking the u-bend off someone's sink so that their room gets flooded yeah yeah well yes their room gets flooded actually and you know worse still than that is that you know after a night of drinking in the in the mess for some people the loo seemed like a long way to go down the corridor so in the middle of the night if they happen to get up and decide to take a pee in their sink and the u-bend wasn't there then it was then it was even worse for them So that was even better when you found that out. You know, that was like, yeah, that was your prank's gone, you know, ballistic's gone. Did you do any pranks in space?

Yes, yeah, we did some pranks. There was one cargo vehicle that came up. It was called a Cygnus. And it had a payload on board, which was basically an incendiary device. What they were going to do is when that cargo vehicle, we emptied it of all the cargo, and we fill it up with rubbish. So it takes down the rubbish and burns up in the Earth's atmosphere. And the idea was that before it burned up in Earth's atmosphere,

NASA were going to actually set this spacecraft on fire because they wanted to investigate how fire spreads through a spacecraft. And so why not do it on a spacecraft that's going to burn up in the atmosphere anyway? Let's set it on fire and record what happens. And then we can learn more about it. He sound quite calm.

The point at which I heard from NASA, we're just, let's set it on fire. It's the point at which I say, I'm out. Well, we were a bit, you know, when you get told that there's a cargo vehicle about to dock to your space station, and oh, by the way, it's got an incendiary device on it, but don't worry, it's perfectly safe. It kind of makes you think, okay, how safe. Anyway, I was responsible for unpacking that vehicle, and so I was digging down to the bottom, and I found this incendiary device and I thought this is too good an opportunity.

So I got this fabric strap made up with a, you know, printed out a label that said, you know, danger, do not pull. And had this thing, it was wafting around. In fact, I know it was a pull to ignite or something like that. Anyway, it looked really realistic. And I just thought, you know, when Tim Cooper or Scott Kelly goes down there and they find this strap that's just flanging, flying around.

These were your fellow astronauts, we should say. Yeah, my fellow crewmates with his strap pull to ignite and Tim came up one day and he was apoplectic. And he said, have you seen that bloody incendiary device? It's got a, it's got a strap. You know, if we catch that strap, the whole thing is going to go up in flame. I was like, no, no, it's not. They wouldn't do that. That's ridiculous.

Yeah, it was quite funny. Scott Kelly managed to get a gorilla suit up on board the space station. Yes, this is a little co-pilot. Well, he's my ISS commander when I first got up. The pranking tradition is huge in the military, and it sounds like it continues over into space exploration as well. I think it's about sort of a sanctioned lack of safety. So I suppose I think when you're constantly exposing yourself to risk in your profession, I mean real risk in your profession like that, I suppose I can see that that becomes a way of

controlling the chaos. So you're causing chaos, but you're controlling it as well. Yes, I think so. I think it's a way of also letting off steam, it's releasing the pressure. You're working in a high performance environment where mistakes have real consequences and sometimes it's nice just to have that levity of a practical joke that just give you that sense of normality again. Honestly, some of your behaviour, bad... Are you talking to Raymond there or me?

Oh, Tim Pete, you make me laugh. You see Tim Pete, you do make me laugh. You've got such a good sense of humour, and I'm going to be honest, that's quite unusual for an astronaut. I think you're unusual because you seem to have a lot in your locker. You're obviously very composed,

but I think you've also got a real sense of fun and you're quite playful and you've got empathy. So that mix is interesting to me. Yeah, I think it's something, I mean, you build up your character and personality, but I think it's something over the years as well you develop. And I guess that that humour has come from an early, in the early days in the military.

Also, the professionalism, you can't have one without the other. And Pete Conrad is somebody I would love to have met. Never got to meet him. But he just sounded like the most colourful person, a wicked sense of humour. Who's he again? He was the third person to walk on the surface of the moon. He failed his astronaut selection test. First time he went through NASA.

He was messing around so much. And he didn't like the medical phase and the psychologists. And they handed him a blank piece of paper. and said, you know, what do you see in this? And he studied it for many minutes before handing it back and saying, it's upside down, which is just classic V. Conrad. And he got labelled as unsuitable for space light.

And it was Al Shepard, who had to persuade him to give it another go the following year, you know, go for the next selection. And he, oh, sorry, I nearly stepped over there. He's had enough. I love it. You know what? There's a thing called,

I don't know if you've come across this with Woody, but Raymond has, there's a thing called stubborn Shih Tzu Syndrome. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. There's a real just stubbornness there, isn't it? I want picking up, yeah. And it's just the earlift. But he's very quiet.

He's no, he's calm, he's not barking. Do you know he's never barked? Really, right, yeah. But he's able to have lots of non-verbal communication skills. That's really important. I mean, Raymond's got it in spades. You know, just a little earlift. An earlift tells you all you need to.

to know. I mean, that's why he'd be good in space, wouldn't he? It'd be great. It'd be great, yeah. Walking the dog is sponsored by Pet Plan. As some of you may know, I'm fussy when it comes to my dog, which is why I never went back to that groomer who gave him a mullet, but I'm fussiest of all when it comes to his health, and that's why I've always insured him with Pet Plan. I've always found them so easy to deal with, and they cover things other insurers don't, which is probably why they're the UK's number one pet insurer. Your number one as well, Raymond. Calm down.

Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet plan is a trading name of Allian's Insurance PLC. Tim, tell me about when you met fabulous Rebecca. Yes. Because she was also in the military. Yeah. And you really fell for her hard, didn't you? Completely. Yes, absolutely.

And I was in Germany at the time. in Guitterslow and she was in the Royal Logistics Court and it turned up and I wasn't ready or expecting to have a relation to. I'd been out there for three and a half years. I had about four months to go until I was coming back to the UK. I was coming to the end of my posting and I wasn't looking to get into a long-term relationship. I know you weren't him because come on. Oh do we have to go there? Do we? We don't have to mention anything. I will just say there was a little bit of a crossover.

Are we allowed to say that? Yes, that's a very polite way of putting it. Yeah, it was not my finest hour. Yes, and I paid the price quite deservedly so. But when you know, you know. Absolutely. When you know, you know. And so I was completely smitten with Rebecca.

So I got posted back to the UK. She carried out in Germany. And actually very quickly got posted to Kosovo to do six months on an operational tour. Yeah. And then as soon as she finished in Kosovo, that's a sprint. That's remarkable. That's remarkable. Hey, man.

Hey, goodness me. You can shift when you want to, can't you? And so, yeah, she got posted Kosovo, and then we had this long distance relationship, and then as soon as she got back from Kosovo, then she got posted to Macedonia when that all kicked off. And this was a really active tour. It was when NATO were involved and, you know, the Russians were coming down to Pristina Airport from the north and NATO was coming up from the south from Macedonia. there was artillery shelling going on and bombing going on

and it was really hard for me back in the UK I got to learn what it's like to be on the other end when you're not the one in the thick of it you know you're the one at home you're the one waiting for the phone calls and probably quite good for you don't mind me saying it was really good for me to experience that because you've got this weird juxtaposition

of one minute just being in the bar with your mates having a great old Friday night and then you get a good phone call and you've got somebody who's all going to kick off Tim what's happening here that a beautiful Dalmatian yeah he's lovely he looks quite young is he oh right four and a half months wow yeah what's the name Dale beautiful like a Disney dog isn't it Tim he's great Raymond is looking at Dale a bit like Basilder looked at the Earl Armstrong when he took his first step on the moon

You know what I mean? There's a little bit of jealousy. Yes, yeah, a little bit envy. He thinks he's a bit smaller than he is. Yeah. Yeah. They just seem to like not understand like themselves in the space. Yeah.

Yeah. Like when you see the bigger ones play with each other, they're really jumpy and like crazy. And he wants to do the same with little dogs. I can quite understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's going to be a lot bigger than that, isn't he?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's ever so sweet. Lovely to meet you. Yeah. Come on, Davey. So Tim, you decided to become an astronaut because Rebecca saw an advert. Yes.

In online? Yeah, online. So 2008 and this was the first time the European Space Agency had held their own selection process. And it was open to all member states and that included the UK for the first time. We had never been able to apply to become a. astronauts. So it was hugely exciting. You're sort of wrapping things up at the army at that point. You've had maybe 18 years there and you're thinking, okay, what's the next move? Yeah, that's right. I was, I decided to leave anyway. It was big decision for me that because,

you know, I was offered a squadron command post, which is really prestigious posting and in the Special Forces squadron as well. But I knew that would take me out of the cockpit and I knew it would be a great way to have a full in the military, but that would never include test flying again, or very unlikely. And it was in my blood. Flying was in my blood. I didn't want to leave the test pilot community. And so I decided to get a job as a civilian test pilot. So I'd already kind of made that mental jump at the time that the European Space Agency had

their selection process. So I applied. And you applied. It was a very long process. it must have felt when you got the gig, it must have felt kind of surreal, did it? Oh, hugely surreal, yes. I didn't expect it right to the very end because I gave it my, you know, absolute 100% effort and attention right from the very early stages of just writing out your initial application form. I mean, spent hours deliberating over, over those

paragraphs to, you know, describe yourself and your strengths and your weaknesses and these kind of things you only had a fun 150 words to do it in and so I paid a lot of attention to it but I never actually expected it to go all the way but I did think well let's see how far I can go through this process and then when we came to the final 10 of us who were invited to Paris it was like a haircut to the way they did it yeah it was and we had this final interview in Paris and I came away from that and my boss my new brand new boss at Westland's helicopter said Tim you're not actually going to get this job by you're like no no no no they're not going to pick a Brit because

we don't pay any money into the program. So, you know, it's, and they're only going to take four astronauts, so that's going to be two Italians, a French and a German. It's a done deal. The UK's not going to get picked. And that actually, they were originally only going to take four astronauts, and it would have been two Italians and German and a French. Simenetta to Pippo, who she was the director of human spaceflight at the time. She basically persuaded ESA's director of general. She said, you know, we need six astronauts. I think one of the things we're walking over water now, in case you can hear that, there's a fountain, isn't there? It's beautiful. Lovely. I love the park.

Do you like it out? You're very outdoorsy anyway. Very outdoorsy, yeah. Yeah, I'd spend as much time as possible. Do you like walking? I do. I love walking. I love running. It's kind of my happy place. It's where I clear my head. It's where I, you know, get my best ideas and do my thinking. When you were all suited and booted, you're done in all training, you're about to finally. go up into space and do you know one of the things I found so moving was that you'd said you'd written about this your thought when you looked at your boys and you were on the bus and you thought I just please let me see them again yeah and I

there's you know there's video of it because everything's being filmed at the farewell ceremony I've seen that so many times that me on the bus just kind of giving that heart symbol against the window and Oliver's been lifted up on the shoulders of Yuri and Thomas is being lifted up by one of our French colleagues who's helping Rebecca you know and she's dealing with all the stress of two young boys there are four and seven at the time and so and just looking at through the window the bus and just you know you want to be happy you want to try and leave your children with happy emotions and make it a happy day.

But you can't help thinking, you know, don't let this be the last time. And as you drive away. So it's a real mixture of emotions, definitely. Was that the hardest thing? Because you've said, haven't you, that people say, weren't you terrified? And your response to that is generally no, because you've got all that out the way with the training. Yeah. Yeah.

But was that the only thing that you were frightened of, was not seeing your kids again? Absolutely. They're kind of not seeing them, but also not being there for them if something happened during the mission and obviously not there for them for the rest of their lives if something catastrophic happened. But when you're in space, you're not coming home for six months. So imagine being on the space station and hearing a horrendous phone call, a message from ground control saying, you know, your family's had an accident. Something horrendous has happened. and I'm sorry but you're not going home for four months. You've still got to do your shift, finish your shift on the space station. That would be a horrible situation to be in. So that's the risk that every astronaut takes when they go up there. It's not just their own personal safety,

but you hope that your family has got the support structure that they need whilst you're away. You talk very interestingly in space about just some, some of the stuff that happens up there and nothing I imagine can prepare you for the launch and the re-entry. I mean those are the two things aren't they which which felt kind of indescribable that actually you had to be there. Yes yeah because the centrifuge can train you for the G-forces but it's more than that is that kind of that visceral feeling the raw power of launch, the acceleration and the speed

and the kind of mind-blowingness of it, the fact that you feel like you're entering a different realm. And when you get to space and the engines cut out and there's this peace and quiet, you... I don't like the engines cutting, that's him. I don't like the sound of that. Well, that's when they're, as long as they're cut out when they're supposed to cut out,

otherwise things get tricky. But no, you're kind of aware that you've just gone and put yourself into a barking mad situation. You're doing 17,500 miles an hour now. One of the strangest feelings was undocking and feeling so vulnerable in that tiny little spacecraft because the space station has become your sanctuary for six months.

And it is a big place, it's the size of a football pitch, and you float around, we eat meals, we watch movies up there, we work, and you kind of get really comfortable in this environment. And then on the day that you leave the space station in this tiny, tiny little cramped spacecraft. You feel like you're jumping into a dinghy from an ocean liner and rowing off into the waves. So yeah, yeah, that's probably the most vulnerable. I've probably felt more vulnerable at that moment than I did when I went out on a spacewalk. So it's, you, you don't cry really, do you? No. Why is that? I don't know. Is it military, I think it's

military training. You have to part your emotions. Yes, I think partly. It's not to say that, you know, I'm not emotional, but I just, yeah, kind of control my emotions, maybe more so than I should, I don't know. But I can't remember the last time I cried. Did they offer you, like, therapy in space, like a psychologist to... Yeah, every two weeks you get a call with your psychologist, which is nice to have. I mean, mine I always kept fairly shortened to the point. It's like, fine, everything's great, thanks very much, can I have a cup of tea now? But it's nice to know that someone's there if you wanted to talk to them and somebody who's not in the command chain,

somebody who's not going to report it back to your bosses. It's a way of getting things out to your system. And that has been useful for some astronauts to have. What is the one quality that you think got you that give? What makes you perfect for space exploration? That's really difficult. That's really difficult. Because like on a professional point of view, I think I'd say something like judgment because that's what it all boils down to at the end of the day.

But that's a very cold technical answer. And actually what makes you a good astronaut is not a cold technical answer. What makes you good astronaut is empathy, I think, really, is being able to have that mixture of skills to be able to do what the armstrongs of the world have done, but also to be able to relate to other people and be that team player. So I think it boils down to having that level of empathy. And certainly that's what we looked for last year when we were selecting new astronaut recruits. You're after people who can relate to other people.

But you're likable, aren't you? Well, that's what interesting when Yuri Gagarin was selected and Kaminin was having to make this really difficult decision. between Yuri and Germant Titov, both exceptional characters, you know, absolutely the best of the best. Either of them could have done that first flight equally well. And it just came down to Yuri had a great smile. He was a likable person.

People loved Yuri. And you think, wow, and that's what made him the first human to orbit the earth is he was likable, perhaps more so than German, which was a bit unfortunate before old, poor old German Titov. So sometimes it does boil down to that. I think. But you're, it was interesting that you were saying during the application process, it was

quite frustrating at times, the endless, are they going to call me or just the endless rounds of it and you, I got the sense you stayed very calm throughout that, even when the questions were confusing or it wasn't clear or you were having to do a lot in a small amount of time. And I wonder if that's exactly what they were testing was actually this guy doesn't seem flappable. Yeah, yeah. I mean that you can you can wind yourself up in circle. if you start second-guessing the system.

You know, what is it they're trying to get out of this? Are they working out how fast I work or how accurately I work? I mean, the point is just to be yourself. And some of the most frustrating things last year when I was interviewing candidates and on paper they were exceptional. I knew they were exceptional people and they had done amazing things in their career.

And they were just giving the stock answer every single time. It was like talking to a military robot. And I was thinking of myself, you've got one hour. You have got one hour to convince us of who you are as a person. And if you don't leave this room with us really feeling like we know the real you, you will not be picked because you're a risk. There is a risk because we don't know you. And we won't select you if we don't know you.

And I was wanting to cry out to these individuals just to relax, be yourself and be honest. Don't worry about making mistakes. We just want to know you as a person. person. I'd rather pick somebody who I know, but they may have made a few mistakes in the interview, than pick somebody who gave the perfect answer, but I have no idea who they are. And so that's really important. That'd be my top advice for anybody going for any interview, really, but I was going to say, Tim's advice, should anyone want to be an astronaut? Yeah, is relax and be yourself. Well, you did that when you went on Jeremy Paxman. You had a very tough interview,

and you were so cool-headed, weren't you? They now use that to show to... Is that right? In NASA? Media training. Yes. I think... Because they tend to be a bit nicer in America

on the PR front. And I don't... They couldn't believe... How dare you, Tim. They couldn't believe it. When they saw that, they're like, oh my God, your British media is really quite nasty. How does your anger show itself?

Like, if you're cross with the kids, You know, your dad, of course they must frustrate you all, because they're, by definition, irrational when they're really young. If you're in a bad mood, how would Rebecca know? That's a good question. I'm going to have to press you on it, Minister. How would she know? Yeah, so I do tend to kind of articulate, you know, if I'm not happy with something, but try and do it in a way that is, you know, it's conversational or not confrontational. and be able to discuss things.

It's not always the case. And I probably, she would say, I'd probably just go quiet, you know, if I'm in a, in a bad mood. Solky, sulky. Yes, maybe it's a bit sulky, but it's also a way, I think, of processing things as well. And I found it really difficult with my two children becoming a parent because they're completely different character types. And they both need completely different styles of parenting. and my eldest Thomas is perhaps a kind of a more traditional style of parenting and Oliver, my youngest, is perhaps a more alternative style of parenting. And you can't apply the same techniques

to both in order to understand them and help them and also to kind of discuss with them what their problems and their fears are and where they're in a bad mood. So it's still, it's been a real learning curve for me as a parent and it's pointed out my flaws as well. You know, I've realized that... What's your biggest floor? Well, I think, you know, the one style doesn't suit all. You know, I've come from this discipline. Well, I guess I'm trying to say, maybe being too rigid and being too military, having had that environment.

And I've now... That's what I love about. Every stage in my life is different. And now I'm working in an environment. I mean, I've been presenting TV shows. Never thought I'd be presenting TV shows or writing a book. And that's opened my eyes to a completely different world that's not military and maybe not so structured and organised. But I love it all the same.

And working with people who are very creative and just have, you know, most of the people I've been working with in the TV industry wouldn't have dreamt of going through military training. It would have been their idea of hell. But they're equally fun to work with and interesting to work with. Even if they haven't been to space. Yeah. Do you find when you meet people, it must be, you know, there was that Walter Cronkite quote, wasn't there? Which you mentioned in the book, which I love, who's the, if anyone doesn't know, he was a famous American news anchor, wasn't he? Yes, yeah.

He said when the Apollo 11 mission returned and he said, there's a sense that they have secrets, we'll never know. Yes, yeah. Is that true? I think it is. And I think it's also a responsibility, but it's a suppression. there because you feel like there's a responsibility to try and tell those secrets and it's very hard to articulate that. Certainly for the Apollo astronauts, they really struggled and everybody will have their own private experience and so to try and articulate that is not possible and maybe

you don't want to. Maybe you do want to keep a little bit of that to yourself. It sounds very selfish but it's yeah it's almost too hard. Pete Conrad used to say people said so what was it like He's just gone, he's flown to the moon on a Saturn 5, he's landed, he's stepped on the surface, he's been out there, third person on the moon, come back. So what was it like? How did you answer that? What was it like? So he used to just say, it's super, I really enjoyed it. And I just think that's the best answer ever.

And people would look at him and say, no, no, no, seriously, what was like? He said, super, I really enjoyed it. And that was how he dealt with it because he thought there is no way I can possibly articulate to you what was it like. Do people say that to you a lot, Tim? Yeah, they do. And it is quite frustrating. I love it when people ask a more detailed question. You know, what's the Aurora like?

Or can you see the stars and say, or something that you can... Let's face it, Tim, it's normally what were the toilets like? Yeah, well, that's fine, though, because people want a specific answer. But the whole what was it like? You know, meet me halfway here. You know, you give some thought to the question and I'll give some thought to the answer. You know what I'm seeing? The rigid military

It's coming out, Tim. But I do feel for poor old Pete Conrad then, I think that was just his way of dealing with that. Well, I think what you seem to have managed is it's very difficult to go through something like that because you're only a handful of people in the world for life not to become hard after that. You know, you get the sense that happened with Buzz Aldrin

where it's like, how do I follow that? Yes. You can't. No. And, you know, he self-confessed. He says he had a good old-fashioned breakdown, you know, after the Apollo mission and trying to process that and trying to deal with it. And what does come next and how do you follow that?

And I don't think you need to. I think sometimes people put a pressure on you that you should follow that with something more challenging or more demand. It's like, well, why do you have to? There are different challenges in life at different stages. in life and why should you feel that pressure to, you know, excel at something further than you've already done. But I can see how that is a frustration for many people. People like you, don't there? You get, it's a really nice form of fame you have. Do you know what I mean? I think,

Pete, you've achieved something. Yes. And I mean, yeah, I'm very lucky that I've been able to do that. And when people, you know, talk to me, it's because they're interested. And so I'm interested in them as well. you know, I'm interested in space and like to share the stories of what we've done and the experiences we've had. So I think that is a luxury that not everybody who's famous has. And I think people do relate to that. If you've actually gone out there and achieved something, then it's a, it's something you've got something nice to talk about. I knew I was going to like you because every time I saw footage and it felt like the whole nation was so behind you and got so excited. and I really found it quite lovely watching children getting excited, you know,

because it's been, it feels like there's a renewed interest. And I think you were partly responsible for that, quite honestly, that we couldn't even get the money to get you up there. Yeah, no, and that's one of the lasting legacies of the mission I'm so proud of is that kind of the inspirational factor. And I think the fact that youngsters can now look up and think, yeah, do you know what, I'm going to be an astronaut. I think that's brilliant.

Do you miss space, Tim? I do, yeah. I think about it pretty much on a daily basis at some point during the day. Something will come back to me. So, yeah, I think it's an amazing environment and it's surreal. I mean, I love diving as well

and I haven't died for a long time, so I miss that too, but I often think about that environment and I think space is similar. It must be weird, though, because I mean you're looking up and thinking very differently from us. Do you know what you mean? That's your manner.

Yeah, yeah. No, I know. And that's when you look up there and you kind of see the blue sky, and you think it's not blue. No, no, no, go on. I know what, 16 kilometres up there. It's a very, very different place. Yeah, and so I guess you do have that kind of secret look up at the sky and think, yeah.

No, I know what's up there beyond that blue sky. Tim, we're going to say goodbye to you because you've been ever seen. so busy, but it really was a genuine pleasure. You are such an interesting, nice man. Well, thank you. It's been a lovely way to finish the day with a walk. I said I was being looking forward to this today as well

because I kind of saw it in the schedule and I thought, oh, podcast, but no, no, I'm out in the fresh hour, I'm going for a dog walk. That's really cool. And Tim Peek. I'm with Raymond too. Hello, matey. Tim Peek, what do you think of Raymond? He's lovely. He's adorable. Absolutely adorable. I mean, this is the idea

of my boys would love him as a that would be the perfect dog. As lovely as Woody is, he's a big boy to sit on your lap. You know, he's not a lap dog. He can't share a sofa with him. He's kind of a lie by your feet dog. Well, Maimand, say goodbye. I think this might be the first and last astronaut we ever meet.

He's brilliant. Tim, I think you think he's a bit weird. No, not at all. I think he's a character. He's got back, I've never known a dog who can be so expressive without actually making a noise. He's wonderful. Do you know what?

He's got a slight astronaut vibe. Yeah. He's like one of the Russians. He's one of the Uri's, isn't he? He is. Has he had a haircut recently? Has he had to trim? Do you know, I might have given him a special.

Yeah. Because I happen to know it's astronaut tradition. I read this in Tim's book. They cut their hair two days before or two weeks before? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's two days before. We fly, yeah. We have a traditional hair cutting. Why is that?

I have no idea. I think it's just basically because Yuri Gagarin did it. And whatever Yuri did, it worked. So ever since then, we've followed in Yuri's footsteps. The other thing you do that Yuri did? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we pee on the back tire of the bus too. Yeah, that's perhaps the less salubrious tradition that we followed. What a wholesome end to the podcast. Tim Peek, it's been a pleasure.

You're the nicest astronaut I've ever met. probably the only one. It's been a pleasure walking with you. Thank you. Bye, bye, Raymond. Great meeting you too. Bye, Tim. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog.

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