Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Tom Basden (Part One)

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

This week, Emily and Ray are taking a glorious morning stroll on Hampstead Heath with the actor, writer and comedian Tom Basden! Tom grew up with a succession of Miniature Schnauzers - but he doesn’t currently have a dog… although his children are currently trying to convince him to get a Labrador… could a walk with Raymond be what brings him back to the dog side? We found out how Tom went from what he describes as a “really normal” childhood to writing and starring in some of the nations favourite TV comedies, including Plebs and Afterlife. We also discuss Tom’s perspective of Tim Key’s ‘great lie’, how he feels about casting himself in shows he has written and his experience of working with Ricky Gervais. Tom’s new film The Ballad Of Wallis Island follows the story of how old tensions resurface when former bandmates who were former lovers reunite for a private show at the island home of an eccentric millionaire. You can catch it in cinemas the UK from 30th May!Follow @tom.basden on Instagram Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think you're quite similar to Raymond. Okay. Okay, yeah. There's a sort of quiet intelligence. Yes. Well, definitely quiet in his case. I think it's hard to know, isn't it, about the intelligence? If a dog doesn't bark or...

I'll dare you. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I went for a stroll with actor, writer, comedian, star of afterlife and long-time collaborator of comic Tim Key, the wonderful Tom Bazden. We met up with Tom on Hampstead Heath and we had the loveliest chat talking about all sorts,

like his childhood growing up in Sutton to his interest in comedy which really started to take off when he went to Cambridge and got involved with the footlights. Tom will probably hate me saying this because he doesn't strike me as one to blow his own trumpet and it sounds a bit fancy

but he is very much the definition of a Renaissance man because he does it all. He was the co-creator and writer of the very popular sitcom Plex, which he also starred in. He was nominated for an award for his writing on the sitcom Fresh Meat. He's had lead roles alongside Ricky Jervais

in David Brent's life on the road and afterlife. Oh, and by the way, he's also a hugely successful playwright. It's almost enough to make you feel inadequate. But fortunately, Tom is officially the nicest man in the world. Plus, he really seemed to warm to Raymond. So frankly, I'm entirely sold. We also chatted about Tom's most recent project, a film he co-wrote and stars in alongside his great palte, comedian Tim Key, called The Ballad of Wallace Island.

It also features Kerry Mulligan, and it's a really funny, brilliantly observed and actually very moving story about an eccentric lottery winner getting his favourite band to reunite for a performance. And I honestly think you'll love it, so do go and see it at a cinema near you. I also urge you to watch Tom's BBC sitcom, Here We Go. It's a really hilarious, hugely original comedy about family love. with some amazing performances from Alison Stedman and Catherine Parkinson and of course Tom himself. So do get watching that on BBC I player immediately. I think it's time I stop talking.

So I'll hand you over to the brilliant man himself. Here's Tom and Rayway. Right, come along, Raymond. You don't carry him, do you? Well, it's a bit awkward you've brought that up, Tom Bastian. Because I am carrying him somewhat like a clutch bag at the moment. Yeah. But it's partly because we're in the car park and he's little.

But also, he is quite slow. He's getting on now, Tom. How old is he? He's eight. Yeah, okay. 56 dog ears, is it? Hang on, can I look at out. You see, we're so quick.

I know. Is that right? There is someone who went to Cambridge. Thanks. I didn't do maths. Yeah. You did English, didn't you? I did, yeah.

That makes sense. So, which way should we go, Tom? Should we go this way? Yeah, I think so. And we're walking. We should say we're in North London, we're on the heath, which is not far from where you live. It's very close, yeah. And we've just established that you live very close to where I grew up, which is lovely.

Yeah. Let's put Ray down, Tom, and you can see him in action. Here he comes. He's going another way. What's your impression of Raymond so far, Tom? I would say he's very chilled. And he's just sort of, he just takes it all in. He just takes it all in, isn't he? He didn't bark at me, which I appreciate it as well.

Do you know he's never barked? Oh, right, I'll be why. Amazing if I'd been the one. Not even like, you know, if someone sort of weird runs up and does something, he doesn't mind. It's an absolute superpower. And I took him to the vet when I first got him and I said, is it normal for a dog not to bark? Yeah. And they said, oh, some dogs don't and you should just be really pleased.

Come on, come and see Tom. I guess it depends what you want. If you've got a guard dog, then you're thinking, send him back. Do you think Raymond would function as a guard dog? Not very well, no. Right, I'm going to put his lead on Tom because he will slow us down. The reason I might carry him a bit, Tom, is he does get quite hot in this weather. Well, I was going to ask what your policy is towards his haircuts.

Because now it's summer's coming and it is really hot today. And I do pity him a bit because he's got like a big old sort of caftan vibe. Yeah, he's, do you know what? He's generally fine, but I think with all dogs, you tend to avoid walking them. We've met at the perfect time, which is half-plus-nine, so that means he's not going to get too overheated. It's getting hot, though, isn't it? Yeah, look, he's met a friend.

So, I'm assuming, as you turned up dogless, you don't have a dog, Tom. No, I don't, I'm sorry, I did think about borrowing one from a friend, but then I bottled it because I just thought I don't know the dog. very well and it might go wrong. So I know I have two I have two young children so I don't really have the kind of bandwidth for a dog I think. What would they think of Raymond I think they'd like him? I think they'd love him my son but my my my kids are just desperate for any kind of dog really yeah yeah my son's got his heart set on a black lab and I'm kind of kind of convincing that that might be quite hard

work for us to sort of give it the right amount of exercise and stuff but he's really into that and then I think they'd honestly they'd take They bite your hand off for Raymond. And did you have dogs when you were growing up? Yeah, I did. My parents got a, I think they've kind of got it for me, even though I did and ended up not looking after it very much. But they got a miniature schnauzer when I was about nine, I think.

I love a schnauzer for the Bastards. Yeah, yeah, we've been a three schnauzer family now. So they're on their third. So it's gone Josie, Poppy, Lottie is the kind of the line of. of succession. They're fun dog schnauzers. They're kind of, they're quite funny. They're quite, they're quite sort of, they're quite like people and that they're sort of quite eccentric and they're all quite particular. Yeah. But they're not, they're really not great at like interactive stuff like games and and just sort of being part of a family. They're just,

I found anyway, there are ones that just, they're slightly at a remove. Are they a little bit? Yeah, that's what I found. They'll take themselves off. and just have a quiet sort of hour just next to like a hot bit in the sort of you know airing cupboard or something oh we can get a coffee here Tom yeah would that be all right do you mind if I just get a coffee no of course not well I might have a water or something if that's okay because it's it is hot now yeah we've just come across a lovely little coffee truck this is the perfect time to see the affordable art fair isn't it yeah we should say the affordable art fair has just sprung up on hamster teeth.

I didn't even know one took place here. They had one. Yeah, yeah. I've been to this one before. It's not as affordable as you'd like. They should put that in inverted commas, really. Affordable, they should have subject to annual salary. Right, yeah.

Means testing, affordable out of there. Affordable, is it? Asterox for Roman Abramette. Yeah, well, I think they kind of keep raising the kind of threshold of affordability. Yeah. You know. I like it. though I like the kind of you know the idea behind it is good I mean I don't think

that they drop their prices when they do when they do the fair I'm just gonna wait until the music started down and then I'm going to ask you about where you grew up sure because I'm particularly excited about the location because it has a comic link I think doesn't it if I'm right okay that's interesting do you mean well I guess it does in as much as I grew up between Sutton and Cheam so I grew up to the East Cheam and my house backed onto the railway so it was kind of like railway cuttings east cheme which is Tony Hancock's fictional address in Hancock's half hour so yeah that's all yeah that is basically why I grew up how it's like you know my dad

interviewed Tony Hancock really it's so amazing there's still little clips of it I think he was going through it was in the final throws of his depression and he wasn't so great but it's always amazing to me like it seems I can't believe he sort of existed as a real person so seeing that footage and then I found out Oh, you grew up near where he lived, which seemed like a fictional place East Cheam to me. Well, it's not a sort of, it kind of is in that no one calls it East Cheam. It's just, you know, East of Cheam. On the Maldgrave Road, going east of Cheam towards Sutton, that is I guess what you'd call East Cheam.

But there's not like shops there and things. It's not like, you know, there's no kind of locale. It's just a road. I look back onto the railway. And this is Sutton, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. which is a lot of comedians are from there. Really?

Yeah, David Williams is from there, Tom Davis, John Pointing, Lolliola Fopoe. They're all from there, yeah. Yeah, for some reason it's sort of like, I think there's something about the suburbs that is quite good for comedy. What do you think that is? That's interesting. I think you sort of see everything. I think you're out of remove. Like you're not in the heart of it. And you know that you kind of, you have to make quite a big changes to your life if you're going to be in the heart of things. So you sort of, you know, you're kind of a bit of an outsider in some ways and then you, you know, you see, I think you just see all different types of people, don't you? You just get a real mix of people in the suburbs.

Yeah. And it's also that aspirational thing. When you think about, you know, all sort of particularly British sitcoms over the years, so much of it is about the aspirational social climate or someone who thinks that they're better than their environment. You know, the sort of Basil Fulties and David Brent's and all of those, Alan Parks. all those people. So like I think there is something there's quite a suburban energy to that the sort of like wanting to be better than your neighbour wanting to kind of stand out even though you know you live in a sort of a very off the peg place there's something about wanting to stand out and you know improve yourself that I think taps into a lot of comedy characters. That's so interesting Tom I think you're absolutely right I never really thought of that And your childhood, if you were going to describe it, if I had to.

If you had to, I'm afraid you are going to have to. So I'll join in, I'll play. I'll say mine was, I would describe it as bohemian artsy chaos. Oh, that sounds good. Okay, yeah. I'm trying to think, I mean, what you've gone for there is they're quite sort of, you know, splashy adjectives, aren't they? But I wish my childhood was as vivid as yours sounds.

I think mine was, it was really normal. And loving, you know, and kind of, yeah, I guess it felt quite, it felt quite like, it felt quite sort of free, I think. You know, we'd play on the street a lot and me and my brother. And where we grew up, it was just, it was, you know, it was very green, a lot of parks and there's sort of football and cubs and all that kind of thing. I mean, I think of it now, it feels like I grew up in the 1930s now sort of think about it, the kind of stuff we were doing and, like, our weekends and sort of getting in the car and maybe going to Little Hampton or something.

And like, and it's hard to believe that that's actually not that long ago, that we were all doing that and we sort of go for fish and chips, like as a special treat once a month. Yeah. And your parents were they teachers? Yeah, they're both teachers, yeah. Oh, you see, I love a child of a teacher. Why? You sound very suspicious when you said that.

No, but I just... I think... What's the child of a teacher vibe? Well, that probably links to my bohemian Nazi chaos. Yeah. Because teachers represent structure to me. Right. And boundaries, love and boundaries, I suppose.

Yeah. Would you say... That was true? I think that, I think it definitely can be. Like an organised household, I would think. Yeah, I think we're pretty organized. I don't know, it's hard to say. Like, my dad is kind of incredibly calm.

And he was the one who taught in the school that I went to. So, you know. You were one of those? Yeah, I was, yeah. How was that? Do you know what? It was actually fine because everyone liked him. Like, he was just, he's a really popular teacher.

But he was also, he'd only really teach A level. He did biology. So most of the kids would never be taught by him. And then if they were, it's the sixth form and it's just a different vibe. It's not like he's the kind of, you know, the sort of Grange Hill teacher running around sort of, you know, sort of putting kids in detention who are sort of mucking about. He's sort of, he's the guy who's based the... He wasn't the one with a toupee.

What was his name? I couldn't remember. There was Mr. Baxter was the sports teacher. Yeah, this is going to annoy the hell out of me. Mr. are we're going to have to remember this. He had a bow tie and a two pay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

By the end of this podcast. We'll get it. Yeah. Look, I mean, he's basically, you know Mr Rooney in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, he's basically that guy but the British equivalent who was in Grangell. That helps anyone picture him. My dad was, it remains just a very sort of peaceful man. And I think there wasn't a huge amount of discipline or order growing up.

I think we were just quite a sort of, you know, classic suburban nuclear family who just sort did everything together because that's just what you did. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, I don't know, I remember when friends of mine started sort of going off to Carnaby Street or Camden on the weekends and it just, it was just too far away. I didn't live very near the school, you see. So it all just felt like, well, we can't do that. That's just, that's in London. That's like 15 miles away. Right. So we just generally sort of stay local or go to Kingston maybe. And what were you like as a kid? I know it's sometimes hard to assess yourself like that,

but I often think it's how it's the way of doing it sometimes thinking what would someone who came across you have thought of you? Would they have thought he's introverted or loud or? I think I yeah, I think a bit of both depending on the sort of on on when you came across me really. I think I think I was definitely a real show off at times. I was very annoying I think at times and probably I say was. I mean that's I'm sure that's continued but I think. you know, I would also be quite quiet, quite quiet, and I don't know, really.

It's, as you say, it's very hard to know, you know, how you come across. I mean, I think I was very difficult when I was a little kid. And, you know, my dad had a vasectomy shortly after I was born as I think a bit of a protest to say like, that's, that'll do now. It's not a great review. You know, it's not a great review, is it? So, sort of, yeah, what's the phrase? kind of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Yeah, so I think I think I was difficult. I think I think I was pretty quite hard for my brother to deal with. But you know, when I when I got older I think I was quite a good teenager. I was just quite self-motivated and just sort of did my own thing. I don't think I gave my parents any trouble really. Was it always clear do you think that you were going to you had comedy chops, you know, and that being funny was a kind of currency for you? I don't know.

It's, to be honest, I think, like, growing up I was completely obsessed with comedy, and I would sort of try and write out things that I liked so I could sort of see them on the page and stuff and then try and, like, you know, write my own stuff and see if I was somewhere doing it at school or whatever. But I didn't really think of myself as like a comic or like a sort of, you know, one of those kind of combustibly funny people. Like, you know, I work with people like that. Like someone like Tim is like that. Tim Key, yeah. And I feel like, you know, I...

I can imagine Ricky Javees, who you've always worked with. Yeah, yeah, he's like that as well. Yeah, absolutely. He's like that, absolutely. Like always the funniest in the room even when he was a kid, you know. and just so front-footed as a kind of comic energy, you know. And I think, you know, I think I've, even as a kid, I was probably just a bit more thoughtful, anxious,

just a bit more sort of backfoot about stuff. So I never, I didn't think that I would end up like doing it, like performing it necessarily, but I hoped I would kind of have something to do with it. You went to Cambridge. Yeah. Was that considered, sort of like wow Tom's got into Cambridge or was it kind of oh well we thought this might happen he's super bright

I think it was I don't know I think well it's a couple of things to say there like my my school um was just you know it is a really academic school and they have a really good record with getting kids in talks it's got quite famous alumni hasn't it but did it had a gamble go there yeah yeah yeah um and uh so I think from the school's point of view they're you know they sort of expect to get a fair old chunk of kids into Oxford, Cambridge. For my family, it was a really big deal, because none of them had been to university before. Wow. So I think there was a lot. Yeah, they were really excited about that.

I mean, my mum had done teacher training in Safran-Waldon. And in fact, she told me a story that when she was there, she used to get something, this in the 70s, you used to get something called the Love Bus, where you'd get a bus into Cambridge on a Friday night, and then you'd come back on Saturday. and there was no return. But yeah, so anyway, I probably shouldn't have shared that.

But so she, mom and dad knew Cambridge really well because they'd been courting when she was, when she was doing teacher training and getting on the love bus. I love the love bus. So I think they were just really excited to kind of like, you know, go up there and spend time with me there and sort of help me sort of settle in there, you know. But yeah, it was, it was.

I guess it was a big deal. I think, you know, I think I've sort of, I think I'm quite, because I'm just quite pessimistic by nature. I think, yeah, I think like even when things go well, I'm quite suspicious. I feel like something's going to go wrong here. Well, I noticed when I said, I love the children of teachers. Yeah, I know. I feel like there's a sting in the tail. Maybe that's your finest quality, though, in some way. Yeah, I think, given what you do, I think a healthy dose of I don't know about pessimism, but it's about, otherwise then you can turn into this kind of a bit monstrously self-confident. You know, and I don't really get that energy from you.

Oh, good, I'm glad. Which makes me really like you. Okay, good. Well, I'm doing a good job of hiding it then. You know what else I like about Raymond? He doesn't have that underbite that some shitsuits have. What the George Michael, as we call it. Do you call it that?

These we have loved. I mean, I'm allowed to say that because I was his biggest fan, but he did have that, George. And, yeah, he doesn't have it at all. No. Then he hasn't got much of a mouth. No, but I think that's to his credit. Maybe that's why he doesn't bark.

I think you're quite similar to Raymond. Okay. Okay, yeah. There's a sort of quiet intelligence. Yes. Well, definitely quiet in his case. I think it's hard to know, isn't it, about the intelligence? If the dog doesn't bark or...

I dare you. Well, okay. What's your intelligence claim based on in Raymond's case? He's not that intelligent. Okay. I think he's just, you know, sometimes people don't have to actually be that intelligent, but he gives off that energy.

It's the Chauncey Gardner in being there. Right. Do you know what I mean by that? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do, actually. It's a brilliant Peter Sellers film, and it's this guy basically sort of says everything he says, because he's quite simple, really.

Yeah. But people interpret what he says as incredibly profound. Yeah. Bits of wisdom. Now I'm sounding like I'm saying you're like that and I just couldn't be that's true. No, that's okay. I take that. I think that's better than sort of saying things that you hope are wise and intelligent and they sound simple.

So when you're at Cambridge, you got very heavily involved in footlights, didn't you? Yeah. No, it is. Tim Key, who we're going to talk about in a minute. Yeah. He joined Footlights. Yeah. And Tim's been on this podcast a couple of times.

He's friend of the podcast, and I hope I can say, a friend of mine. And Tim's told, I know everything. I've got the receipts. Tim's told me about the great lie, as we call it. But he kind of went to Footlights, Tim Key, and he said, oh, yeah, fine. I don't have an email address at the moment, but I am at Cambridge, and of course he wasn't. And you guys all got on very well, and, you know, the rest is his. So I want to know, I've heard it from his point of you,

when did you discover that Timke wasn't actually at Cambridge? I think, yeah, good questions. I think actually he'd been outed as not being at Cambridge before I sort of got to know him properly. But I think what's, the funny thing is, right, about the great lie is that at the time, I think, like, I just recall everyone being like, oh, well, that's fine.

Doesn't matter. And there was only a couple, there were a couple of people I won't name who were up in arms about it. Simply because Tim had got cast in the end of year, like show that goes to Edinburgh. And they felt like, well, maybe he'd taken their spot. And as students at Cambridge, they should have been given priority. So there was a kind of, the only real umbrage taken was from people who had a kind of vested interest in his. him not being allowed to be part of the footlights. But everyone else, as I recall, just sort of, you know,

just very quickly identified that he was very funny. Yes. So, you know, what's the problem? Yeah. And it was Alex Horn as well. Yeah, that's right. So Alex Horn and Mark Watson and Stefan Gajewski, Lloyd Wolf, we were all there at the same time.

Dan Stevens used to do stuff with the footlights as well. I know. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, he's funny, Dan. I mean, I guess people have sort of come to discover this post-Dountain when he's done, like the Eurovision film and stuff like that.

He's very funny, he's very good comic actor. But I think when you're cast early in a kind of Downton Abbey or Line of Beauty, then it's hard to break out of that, if it? And you, after you graduated, was it pretty clear then that comedy writing and performing was, that was it for you? That was what you wanted to do? I mean, maybe. I think it was certainly what I wanted to do.

I mean, I think where, you know, where I was very lucky is that at the point of leaving Cambridge when I did, there was a group of us who all wanted to do it and, you know, could kind of split the cost of an Edinburgh show, say, and also just kind of motivate each other and just, it just helps having a bit of a gang. Yeah. So you're not kind of trying to do it all on your own. and even just to have, you know, a sense of whether or not it's any good. You know, when you've got, when there are four of you, which is what we formed a sketch group immediately after leaving. That was me, Tim, Stefan and Lloyd.

It really means that you, you know, if you're laughing at each other's stuff, if you're enjoying what you're writing, then you kind of, you feel like you're onto something. And I think if you're on your own, not only is it just much harder logistically, but It's just so hard to know, I think, if it's worthwhile or if it's actually going to reach an audience. So that really helped. But I think even during that period, I think there was probably the feeling that like, well, we might have to just sort of find, you know, another thing. And the kind of other work you're doing might end up taking over. I nearly managed a cocktail bar.

Did you? Yeah. What was it like? Well, it was, I don't know if it's still there. It was called Lucky Sevens at some Westbourne Park Road, I think. And I was working in a pub and the manager there, I got on really well with him. And he went off to manage a bar in Notting Hill. And then he said, listen, this other bar need a manager.

Come down and have a look at it and see what you think. And I came quite close to taking that job. Because I just was quite into that sort of lifestyle. And, you know, I had some friends who were doing that kind of thing. I mean, I don't know how close I came to that, but that would have been quite an interesting kind of sliding doors thing if I'd taken that job and then, you know, not done Edinburgh that year or something. But then you would have been the guy in the park that one says.

Yeah, that legend, yeah. But everyone would have said, Tom is so funny. I don't know why he's here. Maybe, maybe. Look, it's hard to know, isn't it? It's hard to know, you know, the way these things play out. I applied for a job as well with, you know, Avalon, the comedy producer. I applied for a job to be an agent.

I was a bit all over the place. I think, again, this goes back to my pessimism. I think I just imagined that I would need, like, a couple of safety nets. I can't imagine you being an agent. would have been terrible. Okay, let's hit the role player now. You're the agent. All right.

Hi. So we'd like to offer Frank Skinner. Yeah. It's this panel show. He's in. Well, I haven't told you the fee yet. That's fine. We'll take it.

I'll be terrible. I'll be terrible agent. What was funny about that job interview as well is that they found out that I was doing life comedy. And they were like, do you want to be a comedian? I was like, no. No, I want to be an agent. And I think you might want to be a comedian.

But you didn't feel, were you initially drawn to stand up or did you think, no, I want to. Because you did really well at Edinburgh, didn't you? I remember there was this real buzz about you. And did you win a war? A one best newcomer for my first show. At the Edinburgh Festival. Yeah, in 2007. But what's pretty worth saying is that that show, it was, it was, it was.

It was songs and sort of pictures. I've done pictures and various kind of, I don't know, like visual jokes, I guess. And it was called Tom Bastern't won't say anything. And I genuinely didn't speak for the whole show. And I think, you know, that probably is a fairly good indication of why as a stand-up maybe, you know, it's not my natural habitat being a sort of, that kind of, yeah, like. loud, very confident, chatty stand-up. Right.

I don't really know how to do that. I have done shows since, I've done more conventional stand-up, but I think even then, like, I find it, I just find it very hard being sort of, you know, very, very kind of confident about it in the way that some people just take to that very naturally, I think. Yeah, you know, you see someone like Rob Beckett,

and you sort of think Rob was kind of made, to be on stage in the sense of he just walks on and he's at home and he thinks, did you feel, I'm thinking just because also there are these two strains to where your talents lie because you're very funny, but also writing is obviously something you have a huge talent for. And the nature of writing is quite solitary. Yeah. So. Yeah. And I quite like that bit. Yeah. I like the sort of solitary bit where you're sort of, you know, doing a campaign. characters voices in your head and and sort of pissing people off of the nearby. But that indicates someone who's a little bit more introverted maybe.

Yeah, yeah maybe I mean I think I mean I don't I don't really know I don't really know how the sort of introverted extroverted sort of the division works really I think in comedy it's it's quite common I think that's with people who who are really extroverted in some environments and really quite introverted in others I I think it's just much, you're much more like to find that than you are in, say, acting, where I think a lot of actors are straightforwardly extroverted. That's very true. Have you seen the Beatles get back?

Yeah. Yeah, God, I love it. Very obsessed. I am too. Who are you in that? Are you Paul McCartney? I think you might be. I think, I mean, I flatter myself that I'd like to think I was Paul.

Do you know what, though? I didn't realise just what an engine pool was until I. saw that because I thought like oh let's get way out the way there's some very powerful male runners coming there they go there they go they're like some of those characters yeah it's a bit it's a bit like when you see just a herd of wild animals just crossing the Serengeti and you're like there they go look get out of their way you know what you'll notice what I did I did that thing I often do which is I use Raymond and I speak to him and it

to send passive-aggressive messages. So I'll say something like, oh, we better get out the way, Raymond. I don't think those men are going to stop. That's nice, yeah. Do you do that with your kids as well? And so the old lady, obviously, doesn't like children, don't worry. No, I do do that.

My wife gets very angry when I do that. So go on, Paul McCartney. Yes, I see you as Paul McCartney. I love that. I'm very happy with that comparison. But, yeah, look, I think that's probably right. And I think that... Because he was very...

Well, to me, I think that's probably right. What an incredibly arrogant thing to say. I think, like... Tom Bazden announces he is Paul McCartney. You tricked me into that. No, no, I said it. I'm owning that. And why... It's not 100% positive either. No, well, this is the thing. I was going to say, like, if you, you know, for... If you look at his albums after the Beatles, like, is it McCartney 1 and McCartney 2?

Yes. There are some brilliant bits. But it's kind of a bit... I hope that's a dog. Okay, I think she's found Livy. I think it was a girl. Ah, that dog just wet me with it. Is this Livy?

I don't know. Hello. Hello, Livy, is it? Okay. Yes, I think she's found Livy. Okay. Alright, fine. I wish we knew who she was looking for.

Yeah, we'll never know, unless we just go and ask her. Yes, because I think with Paul McCartney, there was an element of him being fabulously creative but also very that person who's like, come on, we've got to sit down and get this done. Yeah. We've got to get it down on paper. But also what I was going to say is a little bit scattergun

like a little bit like distractible and you know there's a point where a lot of his songs become about 40 seconds long and he's just like, you know, and then there's that, no, do that and then we'll move on and it's like, and you go, no, Paul, Just sit down and write the whole thing. Don't do 20 songs. Just do 10 and finish them. Yeah.

And I think I can be a bit like that as well. I remember seeing a show you did called Cowards, which is a sketch show. Yeah, yeah. So that's the sketch show that I was talking about that we formed straight after a meeting. Yeah. And it's really interesting. It's still on YouTube if anyone wants to have a look. And it does feel slightly ahead of its time to me. That I look at that now and I look at the kind of stuff.

And this is no judgment on that stuff, by the way, but the kind of stuff that was doing very well back then, comedy-wise, on TV, which was, I suppose, broader, more catchphrasing. And this felt slightly more surreal and dark. Yeah. And I wonder whether, yeah, it felt ahead of its time. Like there's a scene that a sketch is very famous, which is just these judges standing around having a cigarette on this rooftop.

And one of them goes, Sorry, what does a quitted mean again? Yeah, yeah. And then runs off in a panic. Yeah. I think it's Tim Key. That's right, yeah. And what I love about it is that it's never explained.

Yeah. You do the filling in and that's why the comedy lies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we just loved that so much. We really felt like, particularly when we finally got to do those three episodes for the BBC, We felt like, you know, we'd kind of cracked something. We were really proud of it. And, you know, the whole time we were sort of trying to fend off.

Christ. Wow. Do you want to explain what you should? That looks quite threatening, isn't it? Do you want to explain what you see? Well, I'll try. So two, I want to say poodles have run past, and one of them... But giant poodles.

Oh, sorry, gigantic poodles. And one's got a huge, like, improbably large stick in its mouth. And it's chasing the other one that looks like, you know, with aggressive intent. But when you say stick, I mean, it looked like... I'm doing a disservice, aren't I? Yeah, it looked like the kind of thing that you'd use to bolt the doors

in the sort of Game of Thrones castle. It's impressive. It was a hell of a jaw on him. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, so it was... Yeah, we'd had to fend off quite a lot of notes about, you know, can you have more catchphrases, can you have more recurring characters?

So even the judges, for example, you know, we ended up writing maybe, I don't know, like eight sketches for the judges maybe. And that was sort of our attempt to kind of deal with that note of like the recurring characters thing. And I mean, at the time, sketch comedy was in the sort of long tale of Little Britain and the fast show and shows like that. And I think that the BBC was sort of fairly convinced that that was the way to make something popular. to make something that people were going to watch is that you had to have these kind of very vivid characters that had very very clear catchphrases that you could potentially put on a t-shirt at some point and um and we just didn't want to do that we just never wanted to do that and felt like that you know it must be possible to just do something that's just a bit more surprising and as you

say a bit more surreal and it was it was really hard it was it was a bit of an uphill battle at the time and then we only got to make those three episodes um And, you know, there was sort of crazy conversations where they'd say things like, can you put the word comedy in the name of the show so that people on the kind of program guide can see that it's a comedy? Like, which comedies have ever done that? Like, that's absolutely crazy. And also it's breaking the Martin Amos rule, which is only right for the top 5% of your audience. Yeah, but he wasn't making TV shows.

Yeah, this is fantastic, isn't it? beautiful Tom so we're right at the sort of summit almost of the heath it feels like and we can see is that Kenwood house over there that isn't that's I want to say that's one of the Russian mansion that's one of the Russian mansions that church is St. Michael's where Coleridge is buried yes but you know all this you're from there it's really beautiful I love that church and it still seems surreal to me that Coleridge when you walk in and you go oh what's this and then it's oh it's Coleridge is great on the floor. I know. Where were we? Yes. You're talking about the sketch show.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we only made three episodes and that was, it was really heartbreaking. I mean, I obviously had known about you because I went, not obviously, but I knew about you because I was in Edinburgh. Yeah. Working with Frank Skinner, we were doing our radio show up there. And everyone was talking about this play the party. Oh, right, yeah.

And I think Frank may, I may have gone to see it with Frank actually. Okay, cool. And I just was blown away by it. I thought it was absolutely brilliant and I wasn't the only one. And it went on, I feel that kind of almost really hard launched you. It certainly, do you know what it did is it gave me the, it gave me a lot of writing opportunities from that. I didn't really have any, any sort of way of writing my own stuff really before then. I'd just written sketches.

And then when I did that play, first there's a kind of half hour thing at a theatre festival and then And then it was Tim actually who sort of convinced me to write a sort of Edinburgh version that's like an hour or so. But when I did that, that's when, you know what it's like, that's when suddenly people like, oh, you could write theatre and you could write TV. And, you know, I got a writing agent and suddenly I was, you know, meeting Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain about writing on fresh meat and things like that. And there's just a lot of opportunities that came from that play. So it definitely kind of, it sort of changed what I was doing and also the kind of, the kind of things that I could do. But you went on, you've continued to do, because obviously you wrote PLEBS, which was such a huge success and is so brilliant.

Oh, thank you. I think partly because it's a real example to me of how it's funny, but it's also, you couldn't write that without being fairly smart. Do you know what I mean? the fact that it feels, because whenever you do that sort of, it's almost a mockumentary style in a way. And what I love about it is that having those historical characters, obviously speaking in sort of modern lexicon, but it feels like written by someone who sort of understands everything historically as well. It feels like it's written by a smart person that show. Well, I should confess that there's a lot about ancient Rome.

I really don't understand very well at all. So I co-wrote it with Sam Leifah, who directs it, and he studied classics. So, I mean, he's very good on that kind of thing. And then, you know, I guess I would sort of, you know, my sort of role in the writing in some ways is to make sure that it just doesn't go too far on that route. It's funny. Yeah. And you're not putting in Latin words and happens to translate them. You also, because in plebs, you appear in plebs.

Yeah. And I'm interested how that goes, Tom, because you don't strike me as someone who sort of shoves your head above the parapet and goes, what about me? I want to be in this. Yeah. Is that awkward that conversation? We said, well, I've written apart for myself, the water carrier. Do you know what? It's, funnily enough, but PLEB's, I wasn't in the pilot. And there was also a point where I was talking to Sam Leifra and I thought I should play Marcus, Tom Rosenthal's part before we started.

casting and that that was a kind of tentative plan to do that and I don't know what ITV would have thought of that And then when Tom Rosenstall came in to audition we were like oh well he should do it because he's much better at that That would be much you know there'd be a massive improvement on me doing it and then and then I think with the with the part ended up playing of Ourelius I think I think yeah, we just sort of We just decided to recast a couple of roles in the pilot and then and then and then like, I think it might even be an ITV who were like, well, why don't you do it? It's quite weird that you're not going to be in this. And so then I ended up doing it.

But you're right, I, I, I've never, I've sort of tended not to kind of like assume that I'm going to just be in something or try and make myself the main character in something or see it as a kind of vehicle for me. You know, I was nearly not in here we go as well. Well, with that in mind that putting yourself forward, I suppose, fountain centre in something appearing in it, you've worked with Ricky Javaisal. Yeah, yeah.

And you had a huge role in afterlife. And I wonder when Ricky asked you, I mean, firstly, how did you meet Ricky and how did you, because you guys have worked together a lot. You're also pitted Derek and you're one of his regulars. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I, um, I, the way that I met him was. that I'd made a short film with Rick Edwards

that he'd written for the... that Rick had written for the Olympics. Who was the TV four presenter and you... Did you cheer a flat with Rich? Yeah, I did. I lived with Rick in Kentish Town after university as well. And yes, he was writing these short films about the Olympics and I think Tim did one of them

and maybe Diane Morgan did one of them and I did one of them. And it was really fun and we just got to kind of piss about and improvise around the Olympics. Olympic Park and then he and Rick knew Ricky it's confusing well and and and sent it to him and he enjoyed it and was like who's who's that guy that you cast and then he just Ricky just offered me a part in Derek and what was great about it and it continues to be great about Ricky is that I've never once had to audition for him he just yeah

because I think he just he knows when he he knows when he's found performers that he's that he's that you trust and he likes what they do. And then he'll just be like, well, you know, get me that person because I've sort of written this with them in mind. And so the first time I worked with him was in this one scene, Derek, where I was playing an autograph salesman. And it was with Ricky and Carl Pilkington. And it was so much fun.

And he really is like just such a kind of force of nature on set. Does he, I mean, famously he kind of corpses a lot, does he? Is he getting the giggles a lot? Yeah, the whole time. I've never seen him not do that. To the point where you're like, oh, I think you'd probably ruin that take. You know, there's quite a lot when you're working with Ricky where you're like, that's a shame that you keep laughing because this is really funny and we probably can't use it.

But, you know, he can't stop himself. He just, like, you know, he just loves comedy. He loves laughing. when someone that funny enjoys other people being funny. Completely. Do you know what I mean? Rather than feeling threatened by it. I do.

And it's influenced and maybe changed the way that I try and make things now, where I feel like what I really learnt from, particularly on afterlife, is that you do get more organically funny performances when you have a really funny. funny atmosphere on set, when everyone's kind of keyed into the same thing and it doesn't feel like a slog. And I think it's very easy for anything, you know, even the funniest comedy to feel like a slog when you're shooting it and to obsess about takes and obsess about different, you know, bits of camera, camera positioning or whatever. And Ricky just keeps that to a minimum to make sure that it just feels really sort of alive and funny. And it's, you can really tell when you're watching stuff.

Oh, there's a big old lab. That is a big lab. You see, that's my worry with the lab. Is it some of them are massive? Oh, look, that lab's having such a lovely time. Fox poo, no, isn't it? Oh, is that when they roll on their back, isn't it? Does Raymond not do that?

No, I've brought him up to be very refined. Clearly. Maybe you can't be asked to roll, isn't it? But yeah, that's so interesting what you say about Ricky Tom. What was that like for you? Because in afterlife, you had a big regular part in it playing his kind of boss and brother-in-law essentially. And that was a global sensation.

It's huge in America. And did that suddenly increase, I suppose, your profile in terms of were you getting recognised more? Yeah, a bit. Yeah, a bit. Do you know what? It was only when I'd sort of go and see my family down in Devon. They all live in Devon now.

Yeah. That I'd start getting recognised for Afterlife. Because around North London, no one likes to come up to you and say, oh, I saw you in this because I just think it's just a bit gauche. And also it's like, oh, Harry Stiles is on my life. Well, exactly. That's the thing. That's the thing.

You're being trumped by bigger celebs all the time. But, yeah, I think, you know, definitely, like, I'm aware that a lot of people have seen afterlife. And sometimes, you know, in other countries as well, there'll be people who've seen afterlife. But, you know, it's, yeah. It's hard to say like how it might have changed things. I think probably what it did is gave me another sort of boost as a kind of performer as an actor because I think it came at a point where I was I was edging towards just writing really. I was getting more work as a writer and I was kind of happy doing that and I sort of felt like if

if acting just kind of falls away, then that's kind of fine. And also, I just didn't want to be that person who's writing sitcom scripts, you know, kind of with a part for themselves in it, and sort of Trojan horsing your way in front of the camera, like that way. I just didn't want to kind of have those icky conversations with broadcasters. But being recognised, is that something you enjoy? Do you find it a bit embarrassing? I would say, I don't think I love it.

But generally, like, people are really nice. So it's kind of, it's usually fairly straightforward. I mean, I think the thing about, that's very particular about afterlife is that sometimes people come up to you and they want to talk about a loved one who's died. Oh, yeah. Which is obviously, you know,

it's a kind of privilege to, to hear people sort of talk about these things. But there'll be times when, like, you know, I was at Emirate Stadium with my son watching Arsenal and he wanted to get a hot dog and someone comes up to you and wants to talk about their dead wife. And it's like, well, this is quite difficult because I don't really, my son is pulling my arm

to get this hot dog, I promised him. But I can't possibly sort of say, sorry, I haven't got time to listen to your story of your heartbreaking grief. You know, so it's I think I think yeah

Afterlife is a very particular one because for fans of that show It connects with people on an incredibly deep level doesn't it? It really really does in a way that is I think to a Ricky by surprise as well but yeah

you know there will be occasionally people who want to talk through something incredibly personal and incredibly sad with me, aka a complete stranger, you know. And it's hard to know the sort of the correct way to handle that if, for example, you're also having to look after a six-year-old boy.

Yes. No, it requires careful navigation, isn't it? I see that. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our... walks every week.