Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Vogue Williams

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Join Emily and Ray for a walk in Battersea Park with the absolutely brilliant presenter and podcaster Vogue Williams - and her two dogs Bertie and Winston. Quite how she found the time to take the time for a walk with us, we'll never know! Alongside looking after her two adorable dogs, Vogue hosts her phenomenally successful podcasts: My Therapist Ghosted me with comedian Joanne McNally and Spencer and Vogue with her husband, Spencer Matthews. She also has three small children to raise.... quite frankly, she's amazing. Vogue tells us all about what she calls 'Irish Modelling', the reason why she has two construction degrees and why she thinks sharing memories is an important part of dealing with grief. You can find Vogue's podcasts: My Therapist Ghosted Me, Spencer and Vogue, and Taboo Talks wherever you listen to your podcasts. Spencer and Vogue are on tour with their podcast! You can catch them in Dublin, Cork and Belfast in March. Get tickets here!Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Walking The Dog is a Goalhanger Podcast brought to you by Petplan: visit petplan.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There's modelling and then there's like Irish modelling. I wouldn't really. When people say model Vogue Williams and I'm like, please take that out. Like please take it out. No. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I headed to London's Battersea Park to meet podcaster and TV presenter Vogue Williams and her two dogs, Winston, a beagle cavalier cross and Bertie,

a rescue French bulldog. Both, by the way, officially adorable. Vogue, as you may know, is married to former maid in Chelsea star and now well-known TV face Spencer Matthews, who she co-hosts a hugely successful podcast with Spencer and Vogue. And that's when she's not co-hosting a hugely successful podcast, my therapist ghosted me with comedian Joanne McNally. Oh and she's also got three small children to raise. Quite how this woman found the time to take a walk with Ray and me, I'll never know. But I'm very grateful she did because we had the nicest chat. Vogue's one of those people who

kind of brightens your day. She's just bird. with warmth and positivity, and she totally adored Ray, so clearly has immaculate taste in dogs too. I really hope you enjoy our walk. Do check out Vogue's brilliant podcasts. My therapist ghosted me and Spencer and Vogue. And by the way, if you want to go and see Spencer and Vogue live, they're doing shows in Belfast, Cork and Dublin in March,

so you can book seats via Ticketmaster.co.uk. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the woman herself. Here's Vogue and Winston and Bertie. And Ray. Come on, Ray, Ray. Winston. When he, like, never goes in the lead, his dream dog. Come on, Ray.

But he is not road smart. So, like, if a car does come, he'll literally walk into the wheel. Come on, Ray. Your dog is so funny. Is it a Maltese? No, he is an imperial Shih Tzu. He's gorgeous. Oh, yes.

Shih Tzu. My aunt used to have a Shih Tzu called Maliki. Oh, really? Maliki and Peanuts, yeah. She used to have the coolest pets, like really amazing cats. Which way do you want to go? We go this way. Which way, though?

Can we go this way? Let's not go the way I go nine times a week with the kids. Why? Because you're bored of that food. Just because I just do it repetitively. I live in there a lot in the playground. Is he doing a weiripoo? Come on.

Oh, I just got a bit knocked back by winning. I'd say your dog is like tiny when you wash them. When I wash him? He looks like a tiny little rat. I'm not going to lie. Bertie's thrilled he's got a new little friend to harass. I'm so thrilled that you're on this podcast, Vogue Williams, because I'm such a huge round of yours.

Thank you. We're in Battersea Park. Yeah. And we're with... Winston and Bertie. Your two dogs. And I'm really relieved to see Winston. because when we turned up, we met about 10 minutes ago

and what was the first thing I said, vote? You're like, oh, Winston is he still with us? It's so funny, though, because if I post a picture on Instagram, people are like, they email me and they're like, oh, thank God, I thought you were saying he died. I'm like, Winston is in great for him. I couldn't see Winston, and so I said, is Winston still with us?

And you went, yeah, he's over there. He's over there, chilling. Winnie, he turned 12 there last week and he's on hard tablets and I feel like Bertie's giving him a new lease of life I mean he drives him mad but he loves him as well at the same time Do you know Winnie's still got it though? He looks great if he trim his ears he looks like he's had Botox

Doggy Botox looks fantastic for his age Everyone's always like why does Winnie look so miserable I'm like that's just his face He's very well looked after So let me through the dog so we've got Winston, I've had Winston since I was 12, not since I was 12, he's 12 years old. I got him when I was living in Australia and brought him back here. Oh did you? Was that quite complicated?

No, it was very expensive. You didn't do a Johnny Debt. No, I did not do Johnny Debt. But it was very expensive and it was at a time when I actually didn't have much money at all. Winnie. Yeah, it was very expensive but it was at a time when I hadn't really got much money. So it was a lot of saving and wanting to bring him back. And I mean, it was so funny because he's such an amazing dog. Like he's so easygoing.

I had loads of people that I knew in Australia being like, we'll keep him. You don't need to bring him back. But I was like, no, I have to bring Winnie back. He's like, my baby now. I can't just leave him. So is Winnie an Antipedean then? Is Winnie an Australian dog?

Winnie is an Australian dog. And when he barked for you, he sounds Australian. That's not Winnie parking He's a gorgeous dog They only do them over there He's a beagle-cavalier They call him a beagle ear And he's really chill

He's a great dog I think you'll find they call him a baigleir A beagleia He's absolutely beautiful And then Bertie is a new edition Relatively new edition Yeah Bertie's not even won yet Bertie's a rescue dog

We got extremely lucky because he's a French bull dog and we got him as a pup so basically I was trying to get it's very hard to get a rescue dog because so many and which is great but like they seem to keep I lost grasp with them

so I was going through many tears rescues and there were so many gorgeous dogs that popped up and I was like oh I'd love him he'd be perfect oh I'd love him and some aren't suitable for children some aren't suitable for households with other dogs and all those things and for different reasons we kept losing them and then I had

friend who was going to give me a Frenchie he was nearly a year old I think he was a Christmas dog that someone didn't want and so I was like I'd love to take him but then I lost out on him and so when I told the rescue they were like we didn't know you'd be interested in a Frenchie and I said yeah and they said well we've got this litter coming in and we can put your name down for one and that's how we got Bertie who was previously called Gollum which he did look like he looked like a gollum yeah I wanted to keep the name Spenny not so much but this is Spencer Matthew is, of course, your husband.

Yeah. So tell me, Vogue, you've got two dogs now. So you're very much a dog family, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you grow up with dogs then? This was in Ireland. In Ireland, so first of all, we had cats. So we had a couple of cats when we were younger,

and then it wasn't until I was, like, I was obsessed with getting a dog, and I really wanted to get a dog. And eventually, when I was about 12, we were allowed to get a dog, and we got two Dobermen, Chloe and Zach. and then when they died I'd moved out and then me and one of my ex has got

another Doberman called Rocco who is still alive to this day but he's with my ex I think he's actually with my ex's mum there so he's living his best life and this was in just outside Dublin is that right that you're out? Yeah yeah yeah I live in like it's kind of like a seaside village called Hoth

it's gorgeous I love it Well, I think it looks beautiful. It's amazing. But when I saw you and your husband, Spencer, on one of your shows, I think it was the one, it was the Channel 4 show. Yeah. And you did sort of documenting the countdown to the birth of your first son. And then it was a wedding celebration that you had. And they were absolutely brilliant these shows.

Yeah, it was fun. And in one of the shows, you took Spencer back to your hometown. And I just remember him saying, Oh, lovely weather as usual here. Always lovely, isn't it here? Never rains. But it looks absolutely beautiful there. Oh, it's amazing.

Now, Spani does love it. I mean, I'd love to move home there one day because it is such an amazing place to bring up kids, I think. But with work and stuff, just the way our jobs are, it will never be possible for us to move back there. But, like, he loves it now because it's so relaxing. There's not a whole lot to do, We don't want to do a whole lot.

We want to train. We want to go for nice walks. We want to go to the playground with the kids and have the odd nice meal. But mainly just relax when we get back there and just see family and friends. It was you and your dad, Freddie. Yeah. And your mom. Is it Sandra, your mom?

Sandra. Yeah. Oh, God, that was, yeah. But they broke up when I was seven. You were seven? Yeah. And then, so my mom has been with my stepdad ever since. So he's kind of like he'd be as close to a dad as you could get, I suppose.

And you've got two siblings and two half-siblings as well, haven't you? Oh, look at that one, though. That's a pretty dog. What are they? What are those dogs holding in? That looks. They need a lot of walks now, though. I think you have to be quite careful and the type of dog you get. That would be too much for me. Really?

A cocker spaniel, is it? Yeah, coca spaniel. Yeah. They need a lot of walks. I think if people are going to get a dog, you really need to think about the kind of dog you want. Sorry. Sorry. Just as you were saying, I think if you're going to get a dog,

you really need to think about the kind of dog he wants. I feel like your dog is probably more high maintenance. Well, just as you said that, he ran into a child's ham. With Raymond, it's more like living with, it's not living with quite a difficult celebrity. I love that. I feel like on the PR.

Raymond sees you as the help for sure. I kind of love his vibe, though. I love it. He's very entitled, isn't he? You are, I remember, but you're very cute. He's so funny-looking. So growing up, Vogue, your dad, Freddie, was he a car salesman? Yeah, he was, yeah.

And what was your childhood sort of experience like? What was your home life like? People have a lot of sort of cliched ideas about, you know, big, warm Irish family, is constantly noisy, but was it like that? Was it a noisy fun family? Our family was definitely noisy. We had a lot of fun.

were like my sister and I were very much tomboyes and we we were and still are the best of friends but we'd always be out like swimming in swamps and just doing fun things and going like it was kind of like in Ireland back in the day you'd leave your house in the morning on summer holidays you might go back for lunch and then you'd be out again and you go back in when you have to have dinner and you were kind of gone for the day it's not like like with my kids now like they have such a big social life I mean, my Saturday consists of ballet, football, then we have swimming, then we might have a kid's party to go to.

And it's like, there's not really, if I don't take a day off during the week, I don't really get to too much myself. But when we were younger, you were just kind of let loose, but it's not the way anymore. I think it's probably more chilled in Ireland. I don't think kids do as many activities. But saying that my brother's kids do a lot,

they're at tennis or at gymnastics. So I don't know what it is. I think that it's less safe. You can't just let your child go out in London. Like I wouldn't even let tea go around the block. It's definitely not as safe. And that's what I would miss about Ireland because there are some mistakes

where you can just let your kids play out in the road with each other but it's kind of not the way over here for sure. Were you close to both your parents? Yeah, yeah. So that must have been, was that quite tough when they split? Was it a bit of a shock? Did you sit coming? Not really.

I mean, I was so young. I know a lot of people, there's Winnie there. Winnie always comes back. Winnie! He's so good. Come here. Winnie's got an amazing gate.

Winnie's a bit Liam Gallagher the way Winnie walks. Winnie go there and then sit. Yeah, so go on. You were saying about... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're saying about your parents? It wasn't very complicated for us.

I mean, it was to tell you the ins and outs, but you'd probably yourself think it was quite complicated because I know Spencer certainly things that I probably had a tough time but I didn't that's not our dogs no it's not thank you

see I just I took the credit for that but those people pointed in our direction and said how beautiful and I said thank you but I think they might have been saying that about a vogue and I just basically took I think they were saying it about Bertie

to be honest with you it was not either of us it was actually Bertie. I thought it was very. Bertie the snorter. No, I had it, as far as I remember, I had a lovely childhood. I mean, it doesn't come without its difficulties, but so does everyone. And if you, I know, Winston, excuse me. Stop making a show of me, come on.

He's barking at the ducks. I think it's the beagle in him and he thinks that he's going to go near them, but he never does. And he used to chase squirrels in his younger years, and he would like be so, he would easily be able to catch one. easily be able to catch one and just never would because I don't think when it comes to it when he came here. That's interesting what you're saying about

your childhood, yeah, so you your memory of it was that it was actually very happy and for the most part, yeah obviously when your parents break up you've got the, it was again, back in the day it was like you spend three weeks at your mom, we spend three weeks at your dad and then you decide who you're going to live with

I remember that happening which is a bit strange to think of now but like my dad was actually he was very good like he'd come every Wednesday and every second weekend and then he'd come to our school in between and he'd like bring ice creams

and give them to us over the wall so we were spoilt and my mum was amazing my mum had three jobs at one stage she works very hard she was essentially a single mom Winston come here she was essentially a single mom

which I think was amazing what she was able to do. I don't know how she wasn't absolutely exhausted, but she did it. And I think that we had a great childhood. Do you think that's where you get your work ethic from? Because it's partly your mom also remarried, didn't she? And that's your stepdad. And he was sort of super successful. So he kind of like a business person or... Well, he was... Neil was very much self-made. He came from a very poor background. He was, he He grew up in tenements in Dundee. His parents were not in any way wealthy.

He was very intelligent. And he kind of built from, he became a teacher, then he became a professor, then he started his own business, then he sold that, then he got into property. And he was very successful, but he's very, very intelligent. And I remember I once, like,

he turned around to people who were on holidays, and he was like, if you want to do things like this, you need to make it happen for yourself. not just going to happen. Like he wasn't one to just be handing me over money and stuff like that. We just, I've worked since I was 16 and he has an amazing work ethic and I think I kind of probably got that from him. Did it, did your lifestyle change quite dramatically then, though, when you know, is his, he, things took off for him and your mom married him. Was that? No, not at the beginning. He made a lot of money when we were about 12 and we moved into a very nice,

house and we got to go on nice holidays but um but he was very strict so my friends would be like go out after school and I wouldn't be and I would go and I'd just have to go home or I'd go to study or I'd be babysitting my little brother at the weekend so um we had all these nice things but he was like well you have to like we'd be up at seven in the morning on the weekends because we would hoover the stairs and we'd clean the kitchen and my brother would clean the cars so we all have to he was no fool me yeah no

it's a real feature that I think of self-made people because I had Gemma Owen and her dad Michael Owen on this podcast and they were both you know she was saying well my dad was like you know we were up at 637 from childhood yeah she said so it's not

I'm always shocked when kids lie in and things and Michael Owen went it was really getting quite passionate about this thing like you got to teach your kids to get up early and you've got to do it do you like a hundred percent like well my kids are so young they get me up anyway so like I'm thrilled if if I get to lie until seven but sometimes Benny and I like a couple of times a week we'll be like right you can stay in bed and he might lie until eight or half eight but that would kind of be

the latest that we'd ever stay in bed. Vogue when you were growing up were you the sort of the popular girl You looked like you would have been. Well, when I was younger, I hadn't quite grown into my mouth. I've got quite a big maath. It's very true. Do you mean literally? Literally.

Literally, I have a huge mouth. No, physically, sorry, physically. Physically, literally as well, I guess. Physically, I've a very big mouth. I do. Theodore and Otto also have very big mouths, and that's definitely for me. So when I was younger, I wasn't the most popular. but I was probably in a popular group in school,

but I wasn't the most popular in that group, if you get me. But I've always had really good friends, like really, really good friends. And like I'm super close at my family, my whole family. And were you sort of academic? Were you one of those girls that, did you copy homework or did people copy your homework? No one was copying my homework, no way.

I mean, I was very good in school. If it had been gradual, like continuous assessment, I would have done well. When I came to exams, I just, I didn't really understand how to study properly. I didn't really bother. And I just didn't like doing exams. No one does, I guess,

but I just feel like placing everything on one set of exam papers feels a bit outdated. Even back then it did. And I think that it puts a lot of pressure on young students that you don't really need to because you should be looking at continuous work. Well, that's what I'm saying, obviously, because I didn't do too well on exams.

Oh, look at that big one, Vogue. He's gorgeous. Look at the size of that one as well. Yeah, oh, yeah. Do you follow Nile Harbison? No, I need to. Oh, my God, you have to. Oh, I'm going to get involved.

He is, like, I only mailed him the other day, a little fan girl male. He basically up six, moved to Thailand, and now looks after Thai street dogs. I do know who that is. Oh, he's amazing. I'm going to follow because I do know exactly. I see those videos being shared, and they're incredible. It's such feel good. content for everything that's going on in the world

right now. Sometimes I just, his feed pops up and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to see what Tina's up to today. And I watched this dog who was so close to death's door and now she looks amazing. And you know what? If I could, I think the next time I rescue a dog, I might get one off him. I love

following his page. I suppose I can see that you're an extrovert, aren't you? You're trying to be as quite a sunny-natured up person. I very much try to be happy. I just I'm like anyone else though, I mean, it just depends. I know what, like, I used to get quite bad anxiety. I know exactly what my triggers are, what makes me have it.

A lot of it is like a lot of like sad moods or feeling awful or not feeling productive always come from when I've had a night out because I drink so rarely. When I do drink, it really badly affects me. And I just feel, thank you for money. When he's taking a comfort break. I say I'm going to go spend a penny. Oh, do you? Yeah.

I think I got that for my mum. Poor Winnie must be constipated. Look, oh God, great. It's not great. Come on, Winnie, come on. Yeah, so that's interesting. So you were saying the anxiety, you were talking about anxiety,

and that is something, because you did a really brilliant documentary about that, which I saw. It's something that hits you occasionally, but... Not so much anymore. It's very much a stress reaction as well. I've got a lot going on.

That's why I'm hyper-organised, I'd say, to an annoying extent. But for me, like, even things like, I get the kids' clothes ready before I go to bed at night, so I know what they're wearing the next day. So the next day we wake up, it's kind of mayhem in our house between certain times. So being as organised as possible just makes things a lot easier. And I think that not boozing. God, it makes... I'm only trying to once this year, and I've never felt worse the last two weeks.

I'm like, this doesn't really. really work for me. I better hit the vodka again. And you did a bit of modelling when you were younger as well. Is that what you wanted to be initially? I know. There's modelling and then there's Irish modelling. I wouldn't really. I don't know if I did. When people say model the vulgar, it's not like, please take that out. Like, please take it out. No, I wasn't like Naomi Campbell or anything like that, you know what I mean? I was basically, if you wanted to sell like a burger or an ice cream or something, I was your woman, a very commercial model. You go up this way. Yeah. But I had such a laugh because like you would do shows in Ireland and you'd sit back with the girls all day and we just

have a very nice time at work and it was fun. So it was kind of the first thing that I got into but no, it was never, I enjoyed it. Of course I enjoyed it. But like when I was doing it in Ireland, It certainly wasn't a career at that stage that I could just live off that. So I was doing that and I was waitressing. And you know when you're younger, you're working in a bar, you're wagering around, you're doing your little bits on the side. And I was in uni anyway. And then when I left uni, the building industry had collapsed

and I had two construction degrees. So my step-tel was kind of like then, okay, I'll let you go and try what you want to do now, which was presenting and everything. And that's kind of how I ended up getting into. to it. And the construction degrees, that's so interesting that you did those, because your, was that again, was that from your stepdad, do you think? I actually wanted to do architecture, I think it's because my brother did it and I thought it would be a great thing to do.

It's quite glamorous as well. I know, I like the idea of it, yeah. And you, I think, you turning up with the hard hat, it's not what they'd expect. No, and then I didn't get the points for that because obviously I didn't study and I'm terrible exams. And then my stepdad was like, right, here's a different route for you. And then I just never bothered changing it because he was like, maybe you should do product design, maybe you should go into fashion. And I kind of knew I didn't want to do any of those things in the long run.

So I was like, I'll get my degrees, keep him quiet for a while. And then, like, to be that age and to know what you want to do, like, yeah, I mean, how do people know they want to be a doctor at that age? Well, I suppose what's interesting is that it tends to come from, I'm good at this subject, therefore I'll do this. But I suppose what a lot of doctors find, you know there are certain qualities necessary for it like you need to be the kind of person that can completely shut off your emotions yeah if you're a surgeon for example and some people aren't those kind of people and you don't find that out until you're like seven years into it and you're on the job and i think i am like way too empathetic in a way not saying doctors are unempathetic but like i wouldn't be able to take the pain and suffering of other people i would just i'd be sent over the edge every day i'm terrible honest

Were you quite emotional when you were a kid? Were you... Not that I remember, no, no. I wasn't that much of a winger. Not a winger, but I suppose, some kids sort of express their feelings quite, you know, quite vocal about that. No, I wouldn't have been overly like that.

I don't think anyone around me was like that either. I don't know, we kind of have a tough, tough nature in Ireland, I suppose. We spend our entire time taking the piss out of each other, so you wouldn't want to get offended too easily where you'd be offended the entire time. Have you got quite a thick skin, do you think? Yeah, I'd say I do. My husband Spencer has a really thick skin

and he's very clever about it, particularly in this industry, but it's not just in this industry that I work in. It's everywhere with people. People are going to have an opinion of you and you just shouldn't really care about it. Unless there's somebody that's actually important to you or if it's necessary for your life,

why do you care? And I kind of, I feel like that now. I'm just like, oh well, like I really don't care what people think. Because I know, once you know you're not being an awful person, you're not doing anything that's going to hurt anyone else. It's like people will just always have a way of thinking. And some people are quite unhappy themselves. And so they just like put it on you.

Yeah. It's something you have to teach yourself though, isn't it, I suppose? Because it's not, as a human being, you're kind of, I suppose, you're wired. to react to what is a perceived threat. It's like a predator, isn't it? Well, look at Julia Roberts even, though. Like, she came out with that, and she was hurt by comments on her page,

and she's, you just wouldn't expect Julia Roberts to give a shit. So after the modelling, which you've called Irish modelling, which I think is hilarious, after the modelling, you then, you're in a, kind of a reality show, really, in Ireland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was your first, and that was your first, with fame. That was my first kind of, yeah, into TV for sure. I mean, it's one of the most

embarrassing shows ever, but it was so funny. And like my sister only mailed me the day, she's like, why do they keep putting it on the player? And I was like, she was like, can you not tell them they can't do it anywhere? I was like, what kind of contract did you think I got? When I first started on TV, they can do whatever they want with that. And it actually, to be honest with you, I just find it really funny. Like, it doesn't make me feel embarrassed. It was something I did when I was younger, and I really enjoyed it.

And I certainly don't regret doing it, because when I did that, from that, then, Orte, the... It's like our BBC in Ireland. They offered me more documentaries, and I spent a long time doing documentaries, and it was kind of the way I made my way into TV. You'll kind of take anything you can get to try and edge your way in,

because it's a difficult industry to get into. Yeah. And so your career... was sort of starting to take off and you were getting all these offers and then were you in your 20s, babe, when your dad died? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think I was about 24. That must have been really tough. I mean, do you know what, it was and it wasn't. Like, I still feel so sad for him because he loved life. He was so much crack. And like, whenever it's the summer, I'm like, because he just loved the summer months so much.

He just really enjoyed himself. and sometimes I have dreams it's the weirdest thing I have dreams where like because I think that I have like obviously I have a bit of disposable income and stuff now and I have dreams where like because his house really needed to be done up

and I have dreams where I have done up his kitchen and I'm so thrilled and then I wake up and I'm like oh God that's terrible I know but but you know what I kind of his death wasn't a massive surprise my dad was sick when you ate

my dad was Winnie My dad was sick From when I was about 12 Like he had two heart attacks in two days So like he was kind of sick my whole life And he lived fast He loved to drink

He loved a cigarette He loved to have butter on his chipped He did not like doing any exercise And so He was not living a healthy life Yeah But even so vogue Even though when you know something

might happen when it actually happens there's a real finality to it isn't it? Yeah I think you just feel so I think like obviously you're in this world of grief but like you just feel so sorry for that person because it's like he definitely had another 10 years in him I can tell that you've experienced that though I do think people that have experienced loss

and what I mean it I know everyone experienced loss as part of being human but what I mean is I call it a life interrupted it just makes you have quite a few more spidey senses about how other people are feeling and I was really interested when I first met you when we first started this walk

you complimented my coat and you said I really like your coat and I said oh thank you and you I think you asked where was it from and I said well it's kind of a weird story and you put your hand on my arm and you went who died I know I know

I'm so like what you know I should be more careful with that because obviously you have come to a point where it's okay for someone to say that. But some people would find that like really upsetting. I'm like, who's dead? I don't know what it is. There's something about death that I try and make a joke out of. I don't know what it is. But I do it with my friend Joanne because her dad's dead too.

And we kind of like talk about it as being the dead dance club and kind of I suppose because it's so sad. you kind of have to try and take anything that could be slightly funny from it I suppose. No, I think that dark comedy is what, you know, it keeps you going through times like that. And all those things that made me laugh, like, you know, you do, you end up laughing at really weird moments. But I could really tell when you said that, I think what occurred to me was that you felt very comfortable navigating a conversation like that. Do you know what you didn't do? The fact that you went straight for it, a lot of people would have been like,

oh well I won't go there. I like when people, so when somebody dies, like let's say your sister who died, which is like that's one of my biggest fears. I literally have to go and touch wood now. Where's wood? Here's a stick. Honestly, because it would be one of the worst things

that would ever happen, I think. Like I think that you're in a club on your own. I'm not even allowed to disgust my dad around you. I think when someone brings us, up someone who has died, I think it's nice because it gives you a chance to remember them. So do I. But yeah, I thought that was interesting about you and it told me a lot about you that you're an empathetic person as well. Yeah, oh for sure. And your career was going brilliantly and you got married quite young. Yeah, I got married and divorced quite young.

I'm a happily divorced. Happily divorced and remarried. Way too young. Do you think so looking back? Oh God, yeah. Way too young. But I don't regret any of it. I don't really regret much that I've told in my life, to be honest. Because there's no point.

You just end up, oh, you're, oh. If it's not going to matter in five years' time, who cares? Your ex-vis high profile, did that bring issues with it when you split up? Was that difficult? I think when you split up from anyone, difficult I just I always that's my worst for people when they when they break up with somebody because like there's nothing you can do for somebody when they've broken up with someone you just have to ride through it and you're not gonna

want to hear it just takes time but just takes time and it's like it's the worst advice when you're like well but that's just it's just it's just the way it is you want to go down there let's wind Winnie can't let me all right don't worry Windsor Windsor Is it Windsor? I thought it was Winston. It's Windsor, it's Winston, it's Winston, it's Winnie, it's Winnie Box.

It's Wayne. Yeah, so you, that was interesting what you were saying, and I wonder if actually, we'll get onto your current marriage, because that's what I want to talk about, but I wonder if, looking back, I wonder if that marriage did have, might have been, you know, getting married young is often a response to, when you've gone through grief. Oh God, yeah, it's 100% it has, everything, everything, everything. aligned. I'd come out of a long relationship. My dad died

and then I'd jet it off. It all aligned. But everything brings you to where you're supposed to be, I think. And where this brought you, so you were doing, take me back though, because it's one of my favourite how we got

together stories ever. You were filming a show called The Jump for Channel 4 and your career was doing really well at that point. I feel like things have really started to take off for you. Things that started, I'd done Bear Grills, I won it. And then I got asked to do the jump, and I'd always wanted to do the jump.

And Bear Grills was like, was it, was it Mission Extreme or? Oh God, Mission survived, that's what it was called. Bertie, stop. I had brought enough makeup to do a smoky eye. Like, I honestly was like, I was like, we're not really in the jungle. Like, they're filming it. They wanted to look gorgeous. We're going to be in like campsites with gorgeous.

just lights and it's going to be stunning. No, no. I remember the very last night we were literally just like they didn't even give us a blanket. We were just lying on the ground under leaves. It was desperate actually. But it was so much fun. What was bear like? Bear is a very nice guy.

He's very supportive of people as well. Like he's very supportive of Spencer. But like, do you know what? He's a very nice man and he's like, I'm not going to say Like, he's kind of of simple enough needs, do you know what I mean? He's a very, he's a real family man. His wife is lovely.

And, yeah, he's always been very nice. I'm very fond of him. So you won that. Yeah. And then you agreed to do the jump. It's now regularly cited as the most insane premise for a show that ever existed. If that show came back on Channel 4 and they asked me to do it, I would jump in with.

both feet. It was the most crack. Like, don't get me wrong. Of course it was dangerous, but like going into it, I knew it was and I knew there was a huge chance of getting injured but like it's a ski show. It was so fun. It was six weeks being away. You're skiing every single day

and learning all these new things and I loved it and I met Spenny there. And it's a competition basically, isn't it? We should say it's you're doing is it Winter Olympics events in general? Yeah, so you're skiing. Did he do luge?

We did the luge. I loved the luge. It was all a lot of fun. So you signed up for this and then you meet Spencer? But when I met him, I was like, I remember being on the phone to my friend after and I was like, he is greycrack. Like, we're going to be made with him.

Did you think he was a laugh? Such a laugh. I didn't fancy him, but I thought he was such a laugh. And I said to my friend, I will definitely hang out with him. Like, he's really good fun. And yeah. and then we kind of just hit it off and here we are, three kids, two dogs

but you were friends? We were friends but then we were the friends that were kissing each other then we were friends that were like whatever I think there's a word for that and the word benefits I wouldn't even say it was that honestly because it was building

such a huge amount of respect but neither of us wanted to be in a relationship and genuinely neither of us wanted to be in one and we just really clicked and got on well together and then eventually we were like right like we just keep coming back to each other

and then that's when we started dating properly. But think about it, we got to know each of this so quickly really well because we spent six weeks together and like we were together like all the time. Like it's like spending six months with somebody who you're actually

dating because you're like we were all living in the same hotel. We'd all hang out with each other. We'd all have lunch together. We'd all work together all day. So it was quite full on. Yeah, I'd enjoy spending time when I have to say But I was really enjoying being single at the same time. And people have often said as well, the fact that he was on Made in Chelsea and, oh, weren't you worried. But I guess it's interesting because I think it was so clearly a performance that in a way.

Do you know what I mean? I was 100% a performance. But also at the same time, people forget that that's a 20-year-old on TV. Like, what were you doing? I don't want anyone to. I was so glad no one knew what I was doing when I was 20. I think what is interesting about your relationship is that he said, which I think is really lovely, that he sort of said, oh, well, it was just everything changed because I felt I had an equal and I had someone I was completely on the same level with. Yeah. I mean, I definitely don't take any shit off Spanson, but you wouldn't take any shit off me either. And I don't think that you, like, I think respect is such a massive thing in a relationship. And I'm like, I'm real about honesty and respect and just, like, even the way our lives is.

have changed. Like we've changed the people that we hang around with. We've changed the people that we spend a lot of time with because like my best friends are people that I've been friends with since I was 12, people that I can literally trust with anything. And I think that as we've gone on through our life, like there have been people that I would question them. And so like as soon as something goes in my mind where I'm like, hmm, I'm not quite sure about you. If I don't trust somebody, I just don't want to be around them and I don't want to be friends with them. So we've definitely made our friendship group a lot smaller, but we've other friends that...

You know what you need to do, Vogue. You've got to do the Waggatha, Christy. That's the way around it. I did consider a Waggatha on a few occasions. But then I thought it's a bit long-winded, isn't it? I mean, you could just not be friends with them. I loved that show, I have to say. It was very interesting, but my God, can you imagine being arsed? And you and Spencer got back. It was pretty whirlwind. Yeah, yeah, it was very quick.

But we've been together now. God, I always get this wrong. Seven and June. No, I don't know. Six years and worse. I don't know. We'll have to work it out. Can we add it in after? It's six or seven. A long time, though. It's now my longest relationship. He always wanted to get to be my longest relationship, but now he is.

What do you think? you sort of brought to him how do you think you've improved him I wouldn't say I've improved him I'd say he's grown up a lot I'd say he's improved himself

and I think that as you get older your priorities just change and the people that you want surrounding you change and like what you want to do with your life changes and his change just the same as mine changed

and I think stopping drinking for him for a period of time completely stopping was really, really helpful to him. And now, like, he would have a drink on a rare occasion, but, like, I wouldn't drink very much either. It's kind of not on our radar as much as it used to be. And you two really laugh together as well,

because you do a podcast together, which is absolutely brilliant. I love doing the podcast with them. It's interesting, because you've got to this... You were having a really successful career doing as everything, really. You were as a model, presenter, influencer, influencer, you've written a book, documentary, all sorts of things, and DJ. Yeah, I'll do that.

Then it feels like, you suddenly thought, oh, maybe I'll do a podcast. It kind of did go like that. Because we'd never done a podcast before. Podcasting was relatively new then. It wasn't like brand spanking new or anything, but it was certainly not on our radar. And somebody was like, would you do one

because we weren't doing our TV show anymore? And then we were like, yeah, I suppose, why not? and then it was very successful and that's the reason Joanne and I decided to do our podcast. Which is, we should say, in case you hadn't realised, the incredibly successful, brilliant podcast, my therapist ghosted me, which Vogue presents with Joanne. Yeah, my pal.

And that podcast was inspired by, I mean, that did actually happen. Yeah, Joanne's therapist ghosted, yeah. I can understand it, though. We both ran to each other all the time. time. It's great to have a friend like that where you can literally just rant at them. And then like you go through it and it's like, thank you for listening. Goodbye. And you two started this podcast. You were mates. Well, Spreney and I had done ours first. So ours is Spencer and Vogue and we had done ours first.

Because that had done well, global, who I do our podcast with, we're like, right, would you like to do, if you have any other podcasts, please, they bring it to ours first, to us first. And then I was talking to Joanne and it was during lockdown. And then we did it together. And like, to be I feel really lucky because I get to do two podcasts that I have such a laugh on. And then I do another one with boots and it's really enjoyable. And I think if you're enjoying doing it, the conversation is enjoyable. Joanne and I, because we speak so much in the pod, I try not to really speak to her too much outside of that because we're saving uploads of stuff. Don't get me wrong.

Of course we go out and we have drinks and stuff like that. But that would be conversations that wouldn't be had in the pod anyway. but there's a lot of stuff but we have groups so I have a group with Joanne and then I have a group with Sven and that's where we send everything in because obviously we've got our editors in there and everything like that and so we're constantly I'm constantly sending stuff into those groups and like we'll have a backup

of stuff and there's always something that is so interesting and like for instance I was working at the Baptist yesterday and I was just thinking God this would be great for content did you go on your own or did you take Spencer because last year he embarrassed you. I know, of course, as any. What did he do? The embarrassing bit was when

he went up to Killian Murphy and I said, don't go up to Killian Murphy. He notoriously doesn't want to talk to anybody and he went up anyway and actually do you know what? It was great content because I got to watch from afar I made sure I hid so I wouldn't be associated

with him. What did you say? Well, Killian Murphy doesn't really want to. I don't think he wants to be at those things. He seems to be a super private person in a very unprivate life. And he kind of was just like taking it back as to why Spencer was even talking to him. But it was very entertaining. No, he wasn't there. I was working. I was working out this year. But he is actually genuinely kind. And he's interested in people.

And he likes hanging out with people and he likes making new friends. And he's just... Oh, look. I'm getting all emotional, that. But he does. He enjoys that. I'd say he's a bit more open to new people than I would be. Not saying I'm completely closed off, I'm just a bit more guarded probably than he is. I feel like I've a very good gauge of character before he would. He's more like, come in and do something to piss me off and then you're gone, whereas I'm like, no, you can't come in at all because I can see what you're up to.

Are you a bit like that? I can tell in a person. I know if I'm going to trust somebody very quickly. So what sort of thing would be a red flag for you? Oh, God, if anyone's rude to anyone in my company, I can't bear it. And there's so many people like that that you meet and you're just like, can you not see the way you're being to that person? Like you can't, and it doesn't look good.

It doesn't make you look like a bigger person. It makes you look like an arsehole. Are you quite direct, though? You're quite a straight shooter? I wouldn't be direct, what I wouldn't be mean. I would be more along, like I just, if there's somebody that like I just felt like I didn't want to have my life, I'd just kind of avoid unless I had to tell them.

But I wonder if that's as interesting. Would you say that you're the one that would be less frightened of those kind of conversations than Spencer, for example? We've had to have a couple of those conversations and I'm just like, I'll take it. Because I'll just be completely honest. Because if I know that what I'm saying is right and fair, then I'm just like, listen, sorry, but like, no. I think it's important not to be nasty, though. Like, I'd never want to be mean somebody or, like, purposely. hurt their feelings or anything but I think

if I'd rather, instead of feeling annoyed at somebody over something I'd rather just be direct and say listen like I'm annoyed about this otherwise it'll piss you off for so long and then you just you'll explode about something. It's even like in a relationship like I'm like oh god

Spenny again has not put the bin sent downstairs or something like that and I'll let it build and I'm like okay do you know what there's been eight things that you've done and I haven't said anything and if I just said it over the time like come on now pick it up then you wouldn't get us annoyed, you know? I want to ask as well, because you've got three kids. Yeah. Are we allowed to name them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Theodore is Etonato. I mean, what brilliant names?

Oh, they're amazing. I did want to call it Theodore Frederick, because obviously that's my dad's name, but Spenny was like, well, then I want to call them Michael. And I was like, okay, fine, they can be the, they can be the middle names. Where are we going? We walk back this way. I'll walk towards my haste. And Theodore, he was your first. Theodore is so good They're actually all very well-behaved kids She's pushing her weight around a little bit at the moment

That's how it should be there I think that's a sign of raising a good family The girls should be pushing a way around I know but I'm a spend he's away now He's gone for 10 days and I have to say She has me up every single night And I kind of am like, wait Stop doing that

I'm exhausted from her But, no, she's very good. They're all very good kids. I get the sense, actually, with your kids, that you were quite keen to think, right, I want to do this. And I thought, that's a very vogue Williams way of doing things. It's like, we'll make a plan. We'll do the kids.

Oh, why, there's so many in a row. God, yeah, we went out of quite quick. But I have to say, going from two to three, and everyone was like, God, you won't even notice. I found that very difficult. It was very, very, very full. on. Like, I just, I was like, whoa. Like, I even think that, like, because if, like, we haven't fully decided if we're going to have a fourth or not have a fourth. And but I even think

about that. I'm like, I just don't know, like, I don't know how many more kids parties I can go to. I just don't see the time. Like, we already have to split a lot of it. And, well, I suppose then they get to an age where they're like, like, like, now tea's party. Some of them are drop off. And I'm like, wow. Brilliant. See you later. And as they get older. And I say, I don't know. It can be full on in the early years for sure. We're kind of out of the tough part now and Otto's in the middle of being potty train

so soon enough nobody will be in that piece that'll be quite nice aren't it? And do you find, it's interesting what you were saying about the podcast that do you find sometimes you've got a... because it's a real privilege getting to work with people you love like your close mate and your partner but you still have to

make sure to also nurture those relationships outside of work in terms of just recognise that, okay, there are boundaries there with work and friendship. I think for Spendie and I, though, we try recently, we've really been trying to just like, like we went skiing on our own for three days and that was brilliant for us. But it was so lovely to go away and just be on our own together because we hadn't actually done that. Yeah. So to do, that we went away on a work trip when tea was quite small and we were like oh my god we need like to do this is such a privilege and it was so lovely to just be together on our own and remember what that was like and for us we tried to do like like we went to

the cinema we're trying like just any kind of small date we go running once a weekend together and it's it's actually lovely to just go running for an hour and chill you're very active as well yeah yeah yeah have you always been like that yeah yeah I've always been very sporty. I like being outside. I like walking. Lots of my friends are active and it's just kind of easy to do that with each other. Like going a walk with your pal.

Instead of going to the pub, I don't really go to the pub. Do you know, often when I do this podcast, people say, oh, I'm knackered or I thought, oh, she'll be fine. She'll keep going for hours. You are a very calm person, actually. Thank you. You are? Not many people say that to me.

No, I think you're a very... I guess if you came into my house, you'd find it quite chaotic. I think I can sense you'd be very good in the crisis. Because I've noticed that Winnie... Let's be honest, you're sort of doing... Winnie does what Winnie wants to do, yeah. And you're not panicking. No, because I know Winnie's very easy.

I know Winnie wouldn't... Like, he wouldn't run away. He's quite relaxed. He's a very good dog. If I could morph Winnie. If I could get another Winnie, my God. We've got a green man. Go, Winnie.

Go, Winnie. Right, let's cross over. You're going to go back now. I wasn't saying that to you, Vogue. I was talking to the dogs in that voice. Do you use a doggy voice? Well, I do do pretty, like just to try. I'll tell you what I do sometimes.

I say, I do that thing, which people also do with kids, is if I'm annoyed by something, I'll say, Don't worry, Ray. That silly man obviously didn't see you, did he? So I talked to Ray, but I'm actually slamming the man. You know, parents do that with kids. They'll go, oh dear, Daddy seems to be sleeping in. Never mind, darling. Oh, wow. Daddy didn't eat enough after dinner again. Silly Billy Daddy.

Silly Billy Daddy. Don't come home. I thoroughly recommend it. It's quite a cleverer. way of doing it. It's really good. I feel like my kids would cop it. I know. I'm so happy that your life seems to be going so well though. Thank you. It feels like you.

It's having a nice time. Did you always think I'm going to be doing something? Did you always think you'd be famous in some way? It wasn't so much fame. I just always wanted to work in TV and just be doing something. I never wanted to be in an office. So even when I was doing my construction

degree, I was working on a building site and there was obviously an element of office work to it, but I spent a lot of time on the site. And like, I like being out and about doing things. I'd find it very hard at a desk all day. So that's why I love this. But I always knew I'd have kids. Is this your local shop?

I'm really jealous. This is where I get my delicious pasta, yeah. I don't buy those fars. They're a rip-off. Look at that. A bunch of lilies for 20 quid. You get them in Tesco for a tenor. And you quite like that?

And what I mean by quite like that? Well, I don't like feeling I'm being ripped off. Yeah. I think those, like, what's, like, they're gorgeous flowers, but my God, they're expensive. But even though, that's interesting, because even though you've got, you know, earning a decent living now and I think that's interesting. I think it's interesting that people that are so, like, when you look at anyone, even if you're a billionaire to just like never consider, like, what you're buying is mad to me, I suppose.

I think people that have been brought up, which both. Both of you have that in common, I would imagine, is that sense of, I suppose, a work ethic and self-discipline. Even though you both grew up with money. Well, I mean, you do make your own way in the world, but you're also in a very lucky position that, like, you have something to fall back on. I don't know. I think that, yeah, we still grew up with privilege. We were very lucky. Like, I was lucky that I was, went to university and all those kind of things.

And I think that you have to understand that. But at the same time, I did have my parents there if something went wrong and not everybody has that. Yeah, you had that safety now. Yeah, I had that safety now. Are you quite strict? Who's stricter? You're all Spencer? Oh, me for definite.

Are you? Are you? And they've gotten to the point where they'll ask me for something and I'll say no and they'll go to Spencer and I'll hear him say yeah. And I'm like, no. I said no. I wouldn't say how massively strict. I try to have a lot of fun with my kids. Like I'm going to go into the mouth, dinner time, bath time.

my aura ring when I do bath time picks up an activity because it's so full on you're wrecked you're aurora ring yeah I've loved our walk and I like

do you know what you're every bit as lovely as I knew you would be I had such a good feeling about you that was a lovely chat isn't it funny that people have never met and we just went around chatting for an hour and a half I love these dogs as well and I'm so

I should say not that you need anyone to listen any more people to listen but Vogue's podcasts are so brilliant. So if you haven't listened to SpencerVogue, please do and my therapist ghosted me and your roots podcast as well. Yeah, to Votox. Yeah. What do you think of Ray Vogue? Ray's so funny. Ray's his own little man. Ray doesn't need any like he doesn't need any other dogs. He's just happy being the king. Bye, Bertie. Bye. Thanks for having you. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.