Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Will Best (Part One)

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Join us in East London with the brilliant television presenter, Will Best!Will has a beautiful Tibetan Terrier called Sandwich. Sandwich and Ray had a very special connection due to their shared Tibetan roots - although, they had *very* different attitudes to how much actual walking it is appropriate to do in the park… Will tells us all about his early life - how he nearly became the Milky Bar kid, what it was like working as a model in Abercrombie and Fitch, and a very strange and rather humiliating tradition at his school… and we also discuss how a desire for freedom led him to seek a career as a television presenter. You can watch the new series of Celebrity Big Brother from Sunday - Friday at 9pm on ITV1 and ITVX!Follow @iamwillbest on InstagramFind out more about Bloody Drinks hereFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye Lawrence - with production support from Dex Roy on this episode.Music: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sandwich! Come! Now the key word there, so come is the command and supposedly when you say it very confidently, bang, he's like a bullet, he comes shooting over. Sandwich! Come! This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a walk in London's Hackney

with TV presenter and Big Brother host Will Best and his beautiful Tibetan Terrier Sandwich. Will and Sandwich made quite the stylish pair when they strolled over to greet us. And sandwich, just FYI, has one of the best hairdos I've ever seen on any canine or human being. So, full disclosure, as one of the most die-hard Big Brother fans in existence, I was dying to chat to Will about what it was actually like, getting to host it, and find out as much intel as possible about the brand new series of Celebrity Big Brother,

and boy, did he deliver on both those fronts. But I was also keen to find out about his early start in life, and some of the jobs he did before breaking into showbiz, which, by the way, included being one of those impossibly cool people employed to basically look fabulous in Abercrombie and Fitch, which he told me some truly hilarious tales about. And also how he dealt with the pressure of taking on the hosting duties for such an iconic show.

Will also has a very impressive side hustle as the co-owner of a Bloody Mary Cocktails Company called Bloody Drinks, so I was fascinated to find out more of. about this very entrepreneurial spirit of his. I have to say, Ray and I absolutely loved Will & Sandwich. They were a joy to spend an afternoon with, and we will be watching him avidly on the brand new series of Celebrity Big Brother, along with his co-host, AJ O'Dudu.

It kicked off last night, and you can catch it every night, excluding Saturdays. Guys got to have a day off for heaven's sake at 9pm on ITV1 or, of course, ITVX. Really hope you enjoy our chat. Let's hand over to you. him now. Here's Will and sandwich and Ray Ray. We've both got dogs that when they are lying down, I imagine it's the same with Raymond. It's hard to work out which end is which. Do you get people saying that to you a lot, Will? Yeah. I post pictures and stuff on my

stuff. I mean, my Instagram is exclusively sandwich in terms of Insta stories. And mainly it's people saying which end, which end, which end, where's his head. He doesn't, he doesn't have a head. Can I take a picture of Raymond for my fiance? Can I take a picture of you with Raymond? Yeah. Look at the prince and will. The two princes. He's a prince. You're a prince.

It's funny that you refer to him as a prince because we refer to sandwich as a princess. Can I just establish? Because gender's important. Yeah, sandwich is a boy. Okay. But we refer to him as a princess. In the sort of, my parents worked in the theatre. So in the way that my parents' friends would say, oh, she's having one of her moments.

Do you have a sandwich in that way? No, no. He's not a diva. It's more just he just I just think it's fun to refer to him as a princess Susan Sparkles we call him quite a lot

that's one of his main nicknames or just Susan Smooosh-Smush-Smush that's very common Raymond pup Which way should we go Will There's a path that runs

round the outside Oh hang on First poo of the day Yeah I know but I was in a rush this morning Will I didn't get a first poo of the day sandwicher he doesn't poo at lunch time. Oh hang on. Raymond's done what I call a very Raymond thing.

He's a phantom poo. He's done a poo but look he leaves a trail. Come on Raymond I'm going to pick up your trail of shit. It's like follow the yellow brick road except it smells. Follow the brown brick road.

It was interesting. I think Raymond like sandwich because they're similar looking. Yeah. Like different scales obviously. Sandwich is stealing someone's ball. Oh no, hang on. Sandwich is off. Sandwich? That's not your ball.

Will? Do you know what I like? You've got such a beautiful... I think the word is malefluous. But you've got such a beautiful, rich, born to broadcast voice. And so when I hear you're having sandwich. It makes me laugh.

Oh, that's nice. Well, it carries, and it means that people think I'm mad because I'm just shouting for sandwiches all the time. Well, what's happened here? He's stolen someone else's ball. Oh, no, no. Pup, pup, pup, pup, sandwich.

Wait, sandwich, wait, wait, wait, good boy. What's Raymond's recall like? Sandwich, come on, come in this way, pop, pop, pop. We've got to distract him with a stick. Well, it's funny you should say that, well. I mean, it is a bit like herding cats with these two dogs. Sandwich! Don't foot, no, no, no, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

We're never going to be standing next to each other. Oh, you can pick yours up. I think I, like, call him too much. You know, I overused his name probably in the park. Oh, do you think so? Well, maybe. They say that you're supposed to not, but I'm just, I quite want him to sort of be near us.

I do as well because I love Sandwich. He's just having more fun over there with, oh, he's nickle ball again. Do you know, he's becoming a nuisance. No, that lady's actually getting annoyed. Sandwich! Come in! Come on, Sandwich! Yay! So what's happening now is that Sandwich is follicking with the other dogs, looking like something that has a Disney movie with all this beautiful hair.

Yeah. And Raymond is being carried. like the spoiled wealthy child so so Raymond is the dog that my fiancee wanted basically when we when she wanted to get a dog it was always going to be called sandwich she she was saying for about two years before we actually got a dog she was saying when sandwich coming when we were getting sandwich before we knew what breed or anything but what she really wanted was a Shih Tzu because she grew up with Shih Tzu she would love Raymond she would love Raymond but is

Raymond's quite small for Shih Tzu isn't Raymond is I think you'll find Raymond is an Imperial Shih Tzu Oh, of course he is. Hence the prince. He's an imperious little. He does have an incredible little face. He's got to have been here before quality. Because of reincarnation. Well, they're Buddhists, aren't they? This is what I think, because they're Tibetan. Yeah, they're part of the same, because sandwiches are Tibetan terrier. No wonder they love each other. So you've got, you've got, because it basically goes up in order of size. So you have Shih Tzu's, then you've got the Lasser Apso's, then you've got the Tibetan terriers, and then you've got the Tibetan Mastiffs.

And they're all part of the same. same gang. And why did you opt for Tibetan Terrier, you and your other half? Well, because she wanted something fluffy, like a Raymond. And I'd previously had a rescue staff, but he was a staffy whipet cross. They're lovely dog staffs, aren't they? And I love staffs. Very, very affectionate.

Yeah, gorgeous. And he was, because he was a cross, he was like, he wasn't, he was quite tall for a staff, he was quite big. But, you know, I wanted like, dog, dog. Do you know what I mean? No offence Raymond. You are also a dog dog, but you know. I would say that Raymond is a brief gesture towards the dog. He's dog adjacent.

He's in the ballpark. He's in the same park as the dogs. But then some of her friends when she was growing up had had Tibetans. And she was like, what about a Tibetan? And then her friends like put us in touch with somebody who like had some puppies, Tibetan puppies. Next thing you know, we're driving to milk. Milton Keynes.

It's always Milton Keynes. It's always Milton Keynes. And there's often a leather sofa I find involved. Oh yeah, there was three leather sofas. One of them had a plastic cover. I've added that detail, but in my head it's got a plastic cover. I mean, Sandwich is buggered right off now. Do you know what I mean?

He doesn't care. Do you know, he's living his best life? He just feels very, this is the third time in the park today, so he's just, so he's just, should I try and get him back over? Yeah. That is the point of this, isn't it, to walk around with our dogs? Sandwich. Come!

Now the key word there, so come is the command and supposedly when you say it very confidently, bang, he's like a bullet, he comes shooting over. Sandwich, come! Do you want to know what's happening? Well, he looked at me. He's coming. Come on me! Yay! Come on!

Good boy! Look, this is what I do, Will. Oh, that's good. the open arms. Yay. Come on, mate. Sandwich, you can do it. Yay, good boy, Samu.

Everyone's waiting for you. And there's a stick for you. It doesn't want it. Good boy. No, he didn't quite, didn't quite get into your arms. Okay, pup, pup, we're going to walk now. Come on, we're going to do a bit of a walk. Come on.

Stay close. This is where the party's at, mate. Look at Raymond. Do you want to put him on a lead? No, it's fine. I'm only putting Raymond on a league because Raymond treats walks rather like browsing for clubs. Come on, Sam.

browsing for clothes in Zara. He just starts every second and thinks, so maybe I wear that on Saturday night. Yeah, nice, nice. So he needs a bit of gentle encouragement. Whereas sandwich... Sandwich is a wild animal. Do you know what I mean? He's a majestic beast

on the rolling savannas. Tibetan terriers, Will. What's their sort of vibe, basically? Sandwich seems terribly sweet and good-natured. He is. He is. He's really sweet and good-natured. So, I probably should have done more research, before I got him, because I assumed Tibet, monks, Buddhist, killed.

You think he'd feel like the monks? Well, so, okay, do you want to know some like Tibetan Terrier facts? Yeah. So in Tibet, Tibetan terriers are sacred and you're not allowed to buy them or sell them. They can only be gifted because they've got such human eyes that the tradition, the sort of traditional theory is that they are monks reincarnated. So I thought he's a Buddhist, but I think if he was a monk, he was a badly behaved. I think, do you know what he was?

I think he was a monk who broke bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He renounced his... Oh, listen to his music. This is fun. Yeah, yeah, this is the bit of the part where quite a lot of crack smoking in that specific spot. Oh, okay. Well, you know what?

A bit friendly. I've got a pretty wide French base. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think is I've got some crack on me. It's more edibles this kind of podcast. Come on, sandwich. Good boy. So, Sandwich, we've been hearing all about your history.

And Will, I want, look, this is what happens. You see, that's good. Raymond, Dave. What is it? You're right there, mate. You hurt your paw? He's hurt his paw. He's hurt his poor.

What happened? Raymond, you've only walked about three yards. Did you get something in your pool, my love? Oh, I think maybe his lead is on funny. Oh, yeah, he's got his leg caught through his harness. Oh, that was mummy's four. I'm sorry, my love. Oh, look, they're finally.

they're finally paying some attention to each other. Oh, that was rather sweet. They got up close and personal. So Will? Yes. I want to get back into the Will Best origin story. Right. And...

I was a Tibetan monk. You seem pretty calm. Yeah. I would say my first impression of you is very calm but impressively self-for-shore. Really? Yeah. Is that... Really?

Does that not feel accurate? No, God. That's the... opposite. Maybe pretending to be selfish. I think isn't most people, this is going to sound wanky in our industry, doing what we do, aren't most people like massively insecure and they compensate by sort of performing a bit? Oh yeah, that's interesting. Is that not? Yeah. I mean not to tie you with my own. No, flit, tar away because I. Good boy. Yeah, maybe it's like those close to you probably see you kick into a mode don't you yeah what I mean I want to put

that in another way because I don't want it to sound pejorative but I think you've got a very lovely pleasant energy already wow that's I really like your energy oh thank you well likewise and vice versa come on Ray Ray what about sandwich do you think Raymond's and you have good compatible energy yes although you know what Would you like to be being carried around more than walking? Ideally. I think I've made him because I think you have to acknowledge, you know, whenever people say, oh, my dog's this, my dog, that.

And I believe a friend of mine who's in AA once told me that the first thing you have to do when you're in a meeting is whenever you tell a story or something's happened, first thing you have to say is what was my part in that? And I pick that up and I try and do that myself. Well, as in any problem. Accept your own responsibility, your own account. It's accountability.

It's accountability for everything, so I had a row with some. It doesn't matter what they said or did, what was my part in it? The minute you admit that first, so with Raymond, I think what is my part in his personality? Right. Sorry, I thought you were going to say that's something you and Raymond have in common because Raymond is constantly saying, what accountability should I be taking for this? I've done a poo. It's on the floor.

And I think I've probably made him quite fearful. Oh, do you reckon? Because, yeah. I think I've made him a bit, but I've done. made him a bit, but I also believe he was a dog, he was like a bereavement dog. I got him when I lost my sister and my parents. And you know what? Apparently, when you get dogs for that reason, the dogs are so sensitive, they pick up and they sort of think, oh, this is what I'm here for. I'm here to be quiet and helpful. That's what I believe. I like it.

Whereas sandwich is here to cause havoc. Sandwich is here to cause havoc. A sandwich, so when I was doing my research into Tibetan terrorists, which I did after we'd got him, because of my assumption, and he'd just be like a monk. I went on some forums and the most common word that people on forums attributed to their Tibetan terriers was arrogant.

Oh. Because they basically do what they want. You know? And they're called terrier. No, he's rolling in something. Don't do that, mate. Raymond is being...

Oh, look! Oh no! Raymond, it's all right. Sandwich is playing! He's just refusing to move. I'm going to have to pick you up for a bit. Silly Billy. Oh, Sammy. So let's go back to your origin story.

Yes. You grew up, I feel like you were born in London, but then you moved to Tadcaster. Yes. Yeah, I was born in London, back in the mists of time in the mid-80s. And then we moved up to Yorkshire in like 1989, 1990. And why did you move to Yorkshire? Is that for your parents' work? My dad's work, yeah, yeah.

And he worked in the charity sector, didn't he? Yeah. So that's what? Yes. So he worked, yeah, for this thing called the Joseph Roundtree Foundation. So he's like a world expert in like social housing, social policy, that kind of stuff. He's devoted his whole life to making the world a better place. And I've devoted most of mine to like interviewing Littlemits in a semi-ironic manner.

So it's... Because the Roundtree, presumably because Roundtree's factory was based up there, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because my mum's boyfriend, his dad had worked there, I think. And so he would always bring us back this chocolate that we ate every Christmas. And it was sort of like they gave them to friends and family, I think. And they were sort of, you know, stuff they couldn't sell. Oh yeah, the broken bits.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we used to get boxes and boxes of broken bits. Yeah. And it was my first experience of like media and that because me and my sister, so my mum became friends with somebody that worked up for the factory side, which was totally separate to the actual, like, the charity. but she worked in advertising and marketing and me and my sister would model,

child model like animal bars. Do you remember animal bars back in the day? Smarties, all sorts of stuff. Got paid in chocolates. I bet you were good models. I was until open my mouth. Not great for a chocolate brand to have a kid with loads of gapy missing yellow teeth.

But I was offered, I mean I assume I would have had to have auditioned but I was told it was basically the job was mine the role of the Milky Bar kid in the ads because I was like I had very light hair at the time sandwich we're going keep up mate sandwich good boy so you were off with the Milky Bar Kid and I could ride a pony

at the time grew up in the countryside but anyway my dad said no really because he thought it would sort of turn me into a kind of precocious little twat. He didn't use those exact words, but that was always going to happen anyway, so I may as well have just done it. What do you think about that now, looking back on that decision? No, I think it was the right decision.

Imagine that. Imagine... I think you... I mean, I've never met a Milky Bar kid, but surely you're insufferable. You're like, A, I'm literally the Milky Bar kid. You know, this was at the height of the Milky Bar Kid mania. Did your dad, do you remember how he told you? Did he give you a reason at the time? No, he just sort of said, no, no, no.

But he told you, I'm turning this down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you and I have got something in, well, I was a child actor, and I acted quite a bit, and then my mum turned a part down, and she never told me. Ah. And it was in a film called the French Lieutenant's Woman with Merrill Streep and Jeremy I. Yeah. She never told me.

I think it's just interesting hearing your sense. story that I look at your dad and I think that was quite well handled because he said no but he took the risk that you were going to be unhappy with that decision and said to you you're not doing it and took what accountability for it yeah I don't remember ever being that upset I think at the time I probably just trusted him you know like totally so I was like well it's probably a bad idea. Also, you know, maybe, maybe he was protected to me. Maybe, you know, maybe my mum had exaggerated it slightly. I would have had to have auditioned and then maybe I wouldn't have got it. It was interesting when I first went into TV because I used to work in

advertising and, and I quit because I was really shit at working in advertising. You did a Nike account, didn't he? I did. God, you're good. But I was terrible and I hated it and I thought, you know what, I'm going to do something more fun when I'm young and can. And I told my dad, look, I'm quitting. I'd already got like a first little thing lined up. So, you know, I was able to like transition and still, you know, pay my rent. I had like a part-time job lined up and my first little filming gig. So it was fine, you know, I was secure. But I remember him saying to me, you do realise you're now at the back of a very, very long queue. Yeah.

As it, you know, I think, maybe it's a different generational thing. I feel like with people, certainly my dad's age, there wasn't this thing of, you can do whatever you want to do. You can be whatever you want to be. That wasn't really a thing, I don't think. It felt far less achievable, certainly. Yeah. You know, and I would imagine, where sandwich gone?

Oh, sandwich has made friends. He's always making friends. He's really friendly, isn't he? He's just very independent. He just, good boy. If we were in a different park where he was less cut, where he, that he knew less, he would stay closer. But this park, he comes here at least once a day.

It's all walled in. This is like a big garden. You sound like a woman apologising for her boyfriend. I'm sorry, it's just he's all his mate. So he's a bit like this one's mates her around. Yeah, yeah, exactly. A boy, and it's just us. He's honestly, is actually really sweet.

He actually got a really good sense of people. Yeah, you wouldn't know it. See, yeah, that's interesting about your dad, Will. I like the sound of your parents because I think anyone, I don't know, I think people who work in the charity sector I have a lot of time for. And I imagine, like I can imagine he was quite a sort of, you were raised with a strong sense of, I guess, values. Oh, massively, massively.

Also, work ethic. Like, he worked incredibly hard. still does. He's 80 this year and he works like, I mean he's completely full-time. He does a million things. But he would always, you know, he'd never get home before like eight at night. Well, maybe sometimes. But, you know, like his, that was his kind of way of being. What were you like as a kid? I always think it's interesting to think if I was one of your friend's parents and someone said, what's little will like? what would I say? Will is very...

What was I like? I think I was... I don't know. I think I was sort of simultaneously like quite... I don't know if it's the right word to use in relation to a kid

but I'm trying to kind of think the contradictions. Like I was simultaneously to like incredibly like stereotypical boy like muddy and like loved playing football

like all the sporty boy stuff, but then also I liked dressing up as a cat or dressing up as a washerwoman. So it was like this kind of like stereotypical like boy boy, but then also like camp little Thespi boy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I get that and I like that combo. Yeah, I mean I think it yeah. And you had a, did you say you had a sister? Yes, I've got two, I've got an older, I've got a brother, older brother and an older sister who are half, but we're super close and then a half and then a full sister. But we're all very, oh look, sandwiches now. Oh sorry.

Absolutely miles away. Look, he thinks he owns the park. Sandwich. Sandwich. Subwap, come. I feel like playing the black beauty music when sandwich on stores. It is. You don't see him running that much.

see him running that much he's not an athlete do you know what I mean well may I introduce you to Ray well can Ray have one of these yes a little bit of duck Ray do you know what Ray is some I think Ray has got the sort of attitude of you know in those ice skating there are always those slightly terrifying Russian ice skating coaches on the sidelines watching everyone else be active he's like that race yeah yeah yeah lovely Gosh, it's the imperial in him. You can really, it really comes through.

What he'll do, he'll, he'll bite it, and then he'll make me break it up for him. Ray, here you go. No way. Here you go, Pop Pop. Here you go. The ambassador's reception. You know when Ray eats, it looks so delicate.

You're literally crumbling it into his mouth like fish food. Well, he's not got many teeth left. Do you ever have to chew his food first yourself and then you sort of... Now you're taking the actual piss. Would you regurgated it straight into his mouth or onto a plate? Look, let's see these tricky questions. I'm not one of you a celebrity big brother chats now, mate.

Okay? Have some respect. Look, when I Fibre, I feel like singing, you know in Disney movies when it's like the ambassador's reception, they always play like do-l-l-l-l-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. He's so refined. Does he like music? Does he respond to music at all?

Yes, in fact, he stays at a place called the Country Dog Hotel. If you don't know it, you're getting involved. Where is that in Somerset? Yeah, we were going to send sandwich there. I mean, they do look after George Clooney's dog. Really? That's when you start thinking.

What's George got, George? You know, what's your... Other than an espresso machine. How is George, please? Is that what his dogs are called? They're called latte and... No, they give... When the Country Dog Hotel take Ray,

because I'm going to Morocco soon and they're going to have them for four days. Sorry. Hello, Rocky. Hello, Rocky. Hello, Rocky. Hello, Ricky. Hi, Chris.

You're all. Hi. How are you? What beautiful dogs? He's a lovely dog. Lovely dogs. Hello. What is it? Is it a husky or a husky across? Oh beautiful. What a lovely affectionate dog. Hello, hello. We're in actually sandwiches being, um, becoming famous. So he's a star now. He's a star. Chris, Chris walks sandwich. Chris, are you sandwich's dog walker?

I certainly am. Oh. I was hoping he was going to mention. He's, we're getting round to that. But I'm trying to make it see. seem as though I do it all myself just to be more relatable. Oh, fair enough, I just you wander off. No, no, no, no, no, no. Chris, if you ever want a very easy gig, you're welcome to take my dog Raymond. Where have way to you live?

No, come. Yeah, I'm North London. You have to carry Raymond, though. He's quite lazy. Really? Hello. What is he? Good question.

You don't know. We think, I mean, I'm not really sure at this point. I think. He's got a fake like a Griffin, isn't he? Yeah, he's an imperial shih Tzu. But, you know, I've never been quite convinced, and I was meant to say to her that he is entirely shitsu. I think there's other stuff going on in there. You can do a DNA.

You're a little 23 of me for your dog. You can find out what they are. Oh, maybe we should do that. I don't want relatives getting in touch, though, wanting to get some of his fortune. Chris, it's so nice to meet you. See you later, mate. I take care. See you later.

Thanks, mate. See you, Rocky. Come on, pup. Come on, Will. So Chris, sandwich stays with Chris when we, if we go away, rather than sandwich going to the... George Clooney. Exactly.

Did you decide then? Did you always think I want to perform? Or, you know, was it more a case of, I hope I can be happy and do something unsuccessful at? It was more that. I think it was, um, I wanted freedom, I guess. And I thought that if I could get on, you know, a telly show, then that would kind of buy me freedom. Yes.

Because if you get profile, you can kind of, it just opens doors. The mistake I made, though, was not really doing enough social media because that is freedom these days. Pop, pop! Did you end up going to university? I did, yeah. I went to uni. I went to Manchester, purely because, good boy,

because I wanted to be involved in like the music scene in Manchester. So I used to organise club nights and we used to DJ around Manchester and stuff you know the home of the Hacienda although by the time we got there it was Haseenda was posh flats a bit less a bit less rave

but yeah that was I kind of I guess I was wanting to do something a bit creative in that respect but I didn't have like a burning desire to be on telly. I mean, I had done drama at school, but then I kind of stopped. I didn't do it for A levels. I, you know, did the odd school play. I just remember watching T4 when I was at uni and sort of thinking they're getting paid to like have a laugh and interview bands and work

with comedy writers and do all that kind of stuff. So I just thought I'll give it a go and it It'll be fun and if it works out great and if it doesn't I can go back to being incredibly miserable at an advertising agency. And you ended up as you say you worked for this advertising agency even though it's interesting because presumably you were there in a creative role were you or were you there in a sales role? No, this was the problem. I was an account manager. Right.

So I was kind of the link between the creatives and the client and the main criteria for that is to be incredibly organised. And are you organised? Oh God no. No, no, no, no, no. The reason why I thought I'd do well at that agency was they had an unofficial motto that was embrace chaos. And I was like, I'm chaos. That's my middle date.

And but it turned out once you actually get there, it was kind of a you're in the army now sort of moment. And they were like, we don't actually mean that. We wouldn't just be incredibly efficient at responding to complicated emails from, you know, the marketing manager at Nike. So, yeah, I was terrible. It's a horrible feeling that, isn't it, Will? because I've had that where I did it for a lot longer than you actually, where I was prising myself slightly into roles that I thought I should be doing. And I wondered why everyone else seemed good at this or understood what to do.

And I was always rubbish at it. Well, was that because you didn't like it? I think it was because I'm probably a bit like you, and that if you end up doing this sort of work, you probably are better suited to it if you're creative. Maybe your thoughts jump around a bit. And I was never suited to office life. No.

It just didn't suit me, probably like you. Yeah. But I kept thinking, what's the problem with me? Yeah. Why can't I fit in here? And then it took me so long to realize, I wasn't that there was a problem with either of us. It was just completely the wrong kind of work for me. Yeah, 100%.

It was always people saying, I remember that there'd be people like putting headphones on going, sorry, we're trying to concentrate. Did you ever have that? Yeah, but I've got a really funny story. So maybe say your headphones off. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think part of my problem was when I arrived, I didn't think it was what I wanted to do. So then when I arrived and realized it was incredibly competitive and difficult, it was kind of like, oh, shit, like I'm going to have to really apply myself to this thing that I don't care about.

And that just became impossible. Let's walk around this way, because much as I love the gentleman enjoying. Oh, yeah, yeah. What I'm going to euphemistically refer to as cocktail hour. I think we should It's quite the cocktail Yeah, yeah, yeah And so

You started interviewing Sort of bands, didn't you? Yeah Like to get practice Yes So I My first job Oh let's actually

You worked in Aparambian Fitch I did work in Abercrombian Fitch I can see you there I wasn't one of the people With their tops off I was kept near the back In the dark shadows In the darker areas

So if I'd have gone in So I'm going to go in Hello there, I wonder if you can help me. I wanted to get this t-shirt with random LA printing on it. I'm going to stop you there. I'm not allowed to help you find clothes. This is true. I have to direct you to a member of our impact team who will,

I'm literally paid to stand here. Oh, are you a greeter? Well, I sort of a greeter at the back. I would Bagsy being a greeter at the, by the changing rooms. So people would come into the change rooms. say hello and then they'd give their clothes to somebody else who would then help them. We were told we weren't allowed. I didn't know where any the products were.

They'd basically you'd have somebody. It sounds terrible. The job title was model, right? Did you see the documentary about it? Yes. It's bad. I mean, it was really weird place. And so they'd just have somebody in every room who was just, their job was just to stand there. And then people come up and say, oh, like, I'm looking for jeans. You're like, ask somebody. Did you say I'm just a model? I don't know about that. Ask one of... I was going to make a terrible joke. No, go on you. We don't have to keep it in, but I need to know.

No, no, but no, just ask one of the ugly people. No, that's obviously a joke. So Abercrombie and Fitch wasn't for you. So Aibonby and that was a means to an end. Do you know what I mean? That was very flexible work. You know, you just... The trouble is I now, if I smell the Abercrombian Fitch after shave, it brings back terrible memories.

And I didn't, I was an outsider, I was too old to be there. All the other staff were like 17 to 19. Do you know what I love? It would like be going on like Love Island. I'd like to go now like in my 50s. Yeah, yeah. Hello there. I'd like to work as a model.

Yeah. See what makes that. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot. It was like that. I don't know how I got the job. And everybody was really young and they'd all go out clubbing and not really invite me.

And they, one day they made me dance. I had to dance. There was a podium. And I had to sort of. of I think the word I'd use to describe how it's dancing was I was grooving and I think if you're grooving in in Abid Crobian faith next to like this girl who was you know I was up I think I was 23 24 and they were all like 17 it was just I'm in my head I'm an adult and this is unbecoming but I need it's a most heartbreaking tale I never heard it's a real tale of

woe but I needed I needed I needed the work did you did you like how you look Did you feel confident and did you look in the mirror and think, yeah, I can work with this? In the context of Abercrombie? In the context of yourself? No, no. Like, I mean everybody mainly sees their flaws, right? So I think I just fall into that pretty standard category. I was always, I was very, I never kind of took much stock in the way I looked because at school I was, I was,

School, I was very small. Like, I had a very late growth spurt. There was this kind of, at my school, there was this like, if you were the smallest boy in this, in like, because the schools divided up into like, you know, houses or whatever. And if you were the smallest boy, you had to do this thing at Christmas, and I had to do it two years in a row. What was it?

You had to do this, like, do this sort of speech thing at this Christmas in, like, assembly. What did you have to say? So apologies. a sort of poem. I can't remember it exactly. About being small. Yeah, yeah, about being a muntabalumba. It was an extract from Willie Wonka. It's not easy being green. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, you had to sing the song short people. Um, no, uh, it was like a sort of toast to, it was this thing assembly to, to, to the, like, to the house. But why did all the short people have to do it? It was just the shortest, the shortest boy had to do it, the smallest boy. I don't know. It was a,

addition. But you're right. These are the questions I should have been asking. I just didn't. I was just all right. But I had to do it two years in a row. I don't know if anyone had to do that. So I was a very, I mean, I don't know if I've necessarily bloomed now, but I was definitely a late, what you might call a late bloomer. Yes. You know, I didn't, I, I wasn't, I wasn't like, you know, fending off female attention. And, like, well, you're not. Well, I never have, but it like, you know, until very much towards the very end of school with before I saw. of. So I never really thought in those terms. You know what I mean? I was more, I think that's probably why I was more interested in like being silly. You know, you've got to have a thing,

haven't you? My thing wasn't sexy guy. It definitely wasn't that. What was your thing? Silly guy. Was it? Maybe more that, yeah. Yeah. I wanted it to be sports guy, but I was not good at sport. But in my head, I thought one day, if I keep plugging away, it's England all the way for me, any sport. You know, maybe the Olympics. I liked to throw it, trying to throw a javelin. Just couldn't make it go far enough. Well, not while you were still doing that play every year. Well, I was too small.

Yeah, exactly. I was throwing knitting needles. So, you ended up eventually going into TV because presumably did you send that show reel you'd done off to an agent? Yes, sorry. I feel like I'm telling that. I'm not really telling the story, am I? I'm just waiting for the prompts.

This is the whole point. is that I love this because this is what walks are like. When you're talking to friends, you don't sit there and read the Gettysburg Address of your Wikipedia entry, do you? You're just like, oh yeah, I did that. Do you know what I mean? But when I'm sitting with friends, whoever is the smallest has to do a very brief recital. I just want to say, it's time for my yearly speech about how small I am.

I know I haven't grown this year. Maybe next year. Maybe next year. What the fuck is this store? It was bizarre. And you just normalised this. I know. Well, yeah, because otherwise it's going to eat me up.

Now I haven't. I'm going to have to just finish the random therapy. I'm going to go back. So you sent the show reel off to an agent? So I sent the show reel off. And I'd kind of interviewed bands and stuff like for the internet. And I sent a show real off to an agent. And I guess I had, do you remember Justin Bieber's hair?

in like 2012 when he, was it 2012 when he first came out? Yeah. So I'd had that hair for a while but like in a sort of it was like indie hair.

Yeah, yeah. You know like the big fringe? If we're putting it in big brother terms because obviously Frankie Kikoza. Got it in one. You know what I mean? That was my haircut.

And I think at the time the directive from the powers that be controlling the television industry was people with hair like Frankie Kikoza. So I think that's how I got an agent and then they sent me to a screen test at MTV and I walked in and they said Frankie Kikoza. I was like no, Will, same hair though and they gave me a job. I think that was basically... You see I find that interesting because it's funny but it's also quite Will I think which is I think you slightly undercut your achievements.

No, no but you don't want to seem arrogant. Well I think that's what you're like. I think that you're I think that you, you, the one thing I've learned in this, like, in sort of working in tele-ish for 14 years, yeah, is, it's like mainly luck. Do you think so? I think so. I think you make your own luck by just not like giving up and just kind of staying in it. You know, I've got friends who are much more talented than me who worked in the industry for a beer and then kind of, you know, ended up doing other things in the end and sort of drifted away. And I just kind of stuck at it. You know, I had some very lean years where I was like racking up very significant debt.

Did you? But I just sort of stuck at it. And I was trying to start businesses at the same time and keep busy outside of TV. So it was always kind of that feeling of like, well, maybe next year, Rodney. You know what I mean? Like that was always the vibe. Some people end up having incredibly successful careers and they're, when they talk about it, it's, well, I made my own luck. Yeah, but that's bullshit.

I mean, even, even. Why don't you? But even like. That's what they would say. Yeah, but that's just, like, you're not living your life like me. But even if it's like, even like, no one's made their own luck, right? Like, okay, so, so Lee Mack is like, clearly the nicest guy in the world. ever met him.

Oh, you would love him, Will. His brain works on a different level to, like, the speed of thought that where he can just come up with things and put joke. That's luck. He happened to be born. And that's not to take anything away from him. He's a comic genius, I think. It's almost like it's luck, but he's done something with it.

He's done something with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's done something, you're right, with something he had anyway. Exactly. Yeah. It's not like he was, you know, rubbish at comedy and then somehow, I mean, I'm sure he would, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm kind of oversimplifying, but you know what I mean? Yeah.

Everything really comes down to luck that you had the environment you did, you grew up in the place that you did, you had the impetus you did, you know, all the external factors that drove you into a certain thing and then. Yeah, that's interesting though. I mean, I tend to agree with you. I think it's a more, and I'm not asking you to declare your politics here, but it's a more sort of left-wing perspective on life, or it's a more egalist. I suppose perspective on life because it's saying well you know it's your chances often have a bearing on what happens to you in life. It's not this idea that well it's that we're all born with the same you know advantages it's up to you what you make yeah exactly exactly and everybody has their own innate set of skills I guess you know the work you can do on yourself

is in understanding what those are and then applying a you know a certain work ethic but we're all just working with what we were lucky enough to be born with, whatever that is. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.