Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - William Hanson (Part One)

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

This week Emily and Ray take a stroll through Hyde Park with etiquette expert, bestselling author and podcast host William Hanson. Impeccably dressed, unfailingly polite and armed with plenty of advice, William was the perfect walking companion. Ray, meanwhile, chose to introduce himself by doing a poo. Not quite the first impression Emily had hoped for.William grew up in Bristol, where a book on etiquette given to him by his grandmother when he was just 12 sparked a lifelong fascination with manners. He went on to become one of Britain's best-known etiquette coaches, sharing his expertise on programmes including This Morning and The One Show, and co-hosting the hugely successful podcast Help I Sexted My Boss with Jordan North.Along the way, Emily discovers that William is considerably more than a man who knows which fork to use. They discuss his childhood, his extraordinary career and the finer points of modern etiquette, including whether it's acceptable to bring your dog as a plus-one. William has some thoughts.There's also plenty to look forward to. William's first crime novel, A Fatal Forking, is available to pre-order ahead of its release next May, and he's been working with the BBC on a new Maestro course exploring modern etiquette and social confidence, available in December.A thoroughly entertaining walk with a man who knows the rules of good behaviour – even if Ray doesn't always follow them.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When I was referring to my grandmother, Granny, he quoted me of calling her nan, which I absolutely would not have done. Thank you very much. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I took a stroll with etiquette coach, author and co-host of the help I sexted my boss podcast, William Hanson. So given Williams made a career out of his immaculate manners, it was no surprise that he turned up early, beautifully dressed, and the picture of politeness. What I wasn't expecting was for Ray to introduce himself by doing a poo, not ideal behaviour for a gentleman on a first date. But luckily, William was way too charming to dwell on it.

And we had the loveliest walk in High Park, chatting about William's childhood, growing up in Bristol, and how an etiquette book given to him by his grandmother when he was just 12 years old ended up sparking a fascination with manners. He's since, of course, gone on to become the UK's best-known Etiquette coach, sharing his expertise on everything from this morning to the One Show, along with co-hosting his phenomenally successful podcast, Help I Sexted My Boss with Jordan North.

William is, as you'd expect, an absolute delight to go for a walk with, and he's such a treasure trove of information on etiquette. You find yourself constantly asking for his advice on everything. In my case, is it okay to bring your dog as a plus one? Let's just say he had some thoughts on that. He's also not just sitting around in a silk dressing gown all day, policing people who say scone instead of scone. Although by the way, please can we all agree, it's scone. He's one of the busiest men on the planet. He's written his first crime novel, A Fatal Forking, which is out next May, and you can pre-order it now. And he's also been working with the BBC on a brand new course for their Maestro series on Modern Etiquette and Social Confidence, which will be available in December.

Really hope you enjoy my walk with two of the nation's most impeccable gentleman. Here's William and Ray Ray. Would you like me to hold anything that isn't feces? This is the worst thing that's ever happened. I can't actually believe this. I'm doing the podcast. Britain's leading etiquette expert, William Hanson, who I'm obsessed with, by the way. I thought, I'll get Ray in a smart new lead and collar.

This is going to go so well. Within two minutes... He's done a poo. It was worse than that, William. A tourist said, oh, what a cute dog started taking a photo. He did a massive shit in front of them. I'm so sorry, William. Well, it all goes on.

So what's the etiquette of me dealing with this? Well, I'm going to take a great interest in the fountains for a moment. As if not to draw a scene. So what's your first impression of Raymond, William? He's gorgeous. He's not. I prefer smaller dogs to. bigger dogs. Yes. Why is that? I find very big dogs quite intimidating sometimes.

Although I sort of got when when my husband and I first started dating his family had what you call them now German Shepherds Alcation. Yes. Quite a huge, quite a scary dog. Gentle as anything so I slightly got over my phobia of big dogs because their dog was actually quite gentle, was very gentle actually. That's the thing though people do often say when they have a big scary dog he's ever so gentle he's ever so gentle we've got another gorgeous dog here now that's the sort of a type of dog that I like do you like don't ask me what breed they are it's a sort of a mocker color well I tell you what that is I think that might be a cocker or cavapoo

coca poo maybe I'm going to go cocapooh they're really popular now are they they became very popular during COVID and I think why people like them is because they've got all the intelligence of the poo. Yes. And the exuberance of the cocker. Yes. And what's wrong with that? And we're all after a bit of that.

Yes, we are. Well, welcome to Hyde Park. Come on, Ray. Now, he's not, sometimes he does this, William. He just won't walk. Oh, he's refusing. He's now refusing to walk. Come on, Ray.

He sometimes does this in a new location. But you strike me as quite patient. Me? Oh, I'm very patient. Are you? Yeah, yeah. Raymond, come on, good boy. He wants to meet you first properly.

This is William. Hello. Say hello. Hi darling. So Raymond is an imperial shih Tzu, which means he dates. He dates back to the Chinese royal palaces, and they were kept, shih Tzu's were specifically bred to be palace dogs. It was illegal to own one outside the palace.

Only royals could have them. Gosh. In Japan? Oh, yes. No, this was China. China originally. Sorry, yeah, sorry, in China. Ray, come here. Why won't you walk? Do you know what this will be? What?

He is so... Does he not like this texture of the... He doesn't like the texture. Well, it's a pebble-dash effect, isn't it? He doesn't like the texture, William. This is how fussy. Hello, my dog is. I might refuse to walk and get ready to carry me.

Well, we'll find a little bench we'll. can sit on but this is absolutely beautiful. We've got the fountains. You've brought me to an exceptionally beautiful spot today. We should say where we are. We're in high park by the Italian at the garden. We've just met at Queen Anne's Nook or whatever it's called. Queen Anne's Alco. Does you like her Alco? Yes, Capacious. And you know William Hansen is on the podcast. And you've been ever so sweet with Ray, but I'm interested to know what your history with dogs, and you say you don't have a dog currently. No, so we, in my formative years, we had, well, at one point we had five cats.

Did you? One of them was a stray that sort of we semi-adopted and then got rid of, because it was a problem, got rid of not in a, you know, not in a, it lived. A sinister sense. Just not with us. Yeah. And this was in Bristol. Just outside of, yeah.

and then when I was 16, we inherited a dog. Did you? It was sort of, I say next door's dog, umpteen fields away, but they would have, they had four dogs, and their attitude to walking dogs was just open the back door and go, off you go, and you'll come back. And that largely worked, but Dido, for that was its name, kept running to us and would end up in our garden.

And so we would go through this ritual of handing it back. She was a golden cock of Spaniel. She was gorgeous and we really warmed to her and my father as he was handing it back one day said well if you ever don't want her let us know and about four months later they phoned up and went we don't want her which is unfortunate when you've got three other dogs

and they kept them and Dido is the most gorgeous thing and yes thus we had a dog but I was sort of at semi at boarding school so I didn't have an awful lot to do with Dido but she was very timid in some ways because she went because of their attitude to walking dogs she had obviously years ago and they told us this got caught and trapped one of her ears got caught on barbed wire as she was going under a fence and she was there for days lost and they eventually

found her but she was so traumatised and so she had sort of half an ear she was so traumatised by that if you then hugged her if you enveloped her she would go it's the only time she'd go wild because obviously I thought it sort of reminded her of being trapped. She was lovely. But sort of my dog but not my dog because then I went off to university and blah blah blah. So you did have experience of dog but as you was just saying,

you're now married and you and your husband... We don't have a lifestyle for a dog. Exactly. Yeah. We'd love one. I mean, he's desperate for one. And what would you get if you were going to get one, do you think? What would be your dream dog? He wants a black lab. Classic.

Yes. I'd like a corgi which I think would work oh you are just you are so corgi thank you probably I haven't decided

if I want a bitch or a dog yes I don't know I don't know everyone keeps going everyone says all corgis are very snappy so am I to be fair so is my husband so many minutes

what's one more thing snapping I think also I always think you tend to think you get the dog you deserve, as in you really do get back what you put in. Yes. And that's also the thing. I don't have the lifestyle for a dog and I also don't have the time to train it. But I know you have to.

Yeah. I do several podcasts and my co-presenter of the luxury podcast, Jonathan Vernon Smith, his dogs are immaculately behaved. Are they? I mean immaculately behaved. And what do you mean? What do know? Like they walk to hill. They don't walk with leaves.

all right um yeah they just are no no I mean he just they just do everything he says yeah and I think also it's about that like Raymond's never barked that's good yeah but I'm convinced that's because I I made it really unacceptable and when I first brought him home he let out a slight sort of e-walk or sort of Chebacca growl yes he he went he's a touch Star Wars isn't he yeah and he went And I went, we don't do that. Good. And you know, he never did it again.

Nip it in the bud. I think you would approve of how I've raised him. I do. Good boy, Raymond. He is the sort of dog. If I don't have a corgi, we could get that sort of dog. Because I want a camp dog. I'm not sure a black lab's a camp.

That's the only thing. They're so classic, a black lab. Whereas what I like about Raymond is he's silly. I always wanted silly. Do you know what I mean? Well, life is so serious, so you've got to laugh. Well, on a serious note, actually, I got Raymond after I'd had some sad things happen to me. You know what I mean?

My sister died and both my parents all in a short period of time and I thought, I need silly. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? This is not the job for a serious lab. This is a job for a ridiculous Ewak dog. Exactly. So... And his coat has sort of slightly changed colour as he's got older?

Yes, it gets older. some of this ombre. I get my hair done by George Northwood and I do sometimes take him in there. He hasn't had his hair done yet. He hasn't had this professionally died. But the grooming mills are expensive as you can imagine. They are, especially with a coat like that. So, William, you've had such a fascinating life because you have become this sort of, I'm going to call you, you are now often referred to as the UK's leading etiquette expert. Well, that's very kind of you. But it's such an interesting line of work or speciality. I'm so sorry. To, um, I just scratched William. Wack to be in the middle of the. I know. I do.

It's such an interesting sort of speciality or specialist into a subject to have. And I know one of the things I hear so often, or read when you're being interviewed, every interview starts the same, which is why I tried not to do that, which is I'm so nervous when I go to meet William. I have to be on my best behaviour. This happens to you a lot, doesn't it? People are slightly terrified. Yes. They're going to put their foot wrong.

And I'm one of the nicest people I know. So they don't really need to be. I'm not going to say anything. And why do you think if people feel that just because they feel that we're all secretly worried about getting it wrong? Yes. I think if I were a math teacher, because in fact, it's all I am is I'm a teacher. I don't think people would be scared unless it comes to paying the bill at the end of a restaurant meal

but that's sort of at the end of an interaction on at the start because I made a faux par when I met you but I was comfortable with it because I'm from a sort of theatrical bohemian family and my parents were performers I always hugged when I first meet in these kind of situations not necessarily with my accountant

but in this situation I sort of feel it's okay to do that. And you went to shake your hand, which was absolutely the right thing to do. And I said, and I just hugged you and I said, do you mind if I hug? But it was too late by then. I'd committed to the hug and you couldn't back out. So that's probably a faux part on my part. Well, it is and it isn't.

It's fine. You know, we're all friends here. We are now. But you see, I liked you. So I wanted to hug you. Well, that's very kind of. And that's nice. And I think, you know, you don't have, what we don't,

what I think this is a bad impression that etiquette can get is that we're trying to constrain others or we're trying to suppress someone's personality. That's not really what we're meant to be doing. So maybe how it was a while ago, but not in any of our lifetime. Do you know there are some people as well, and I'm sure you've encountered these people. I'm thinking of someone in particular, I know.

I'm not going to name on this podcast, but I will tell you after all. because you'll know who they are. It's been said of him, and I would agree with this, he knows everything about etiquette and nothing about manners. Have you come across those people where you'll always get the sort of smithson notelet, everything's always done to a tea,

but then it's actually very bad-mannered in terms of behaviour. Do you come across that? Look at my spirit animal hymines in the bouquet from keeping up appearances, well, which actually has got lots of etiquette wrong as well, But sort of, again, sort of, you know, at 90% of the time, the etiquette's meant to be correct, or meant to be, is going to be correct, but sometimes you have to break the rules in order to be more well-mannered. So, yes, people that do fastidiously, you need to know the rules. Yeah.

And it's a dial. Sometimes you turn it up when you need to be more formal and sometimes you turn it down. And you always have those things that you inherit in families, don't you? So, for example, in my family, my mum was quite into sort of ethics. care. Bloody thank you letters. It used to drive me nuts after every Christmas. We go, the bloody, but I'm glad she made us do them. But also little things like she would drum into us. If you get a gift and you don't like it or you already have it, you say nothing. You say thank you so much. And I said, but what if they say, oh, you can take it back. Tell us if you don't like it. And they're stuck in my head, William. She said, they've given you a gift. And if you say, you return it, you're giving them. admin. Yes. Don't ever do that.

So from now on, do you agree with that? Completely agree. But I mean, I will always, if it's a jumper or something I've given someone, put the gift receipt in there anyway. So do I? Yeah. So should it be the wrong size? They hate it.

They've already got it. It can be dealt with. But again, it's not my admin. But I am always a bit shocked when people say to me, oh, thank you, but I've already got it. So ungrateful. I'm like that's not the point. No, no, not at all.

At time of recording, I mean, I'm going to say this story. I don't. I doubt, I doubt this person is going to hear it and if they do. I hope they do. Please know I like you very much but it's very irritating. So last year, my husband and I threw a housewarming because we've moved and a guest turned up and we had a lovely, you know, they were there. And then about halfway through this part, they said to me, oh, do you mind if I let my plus one in?

He's on your doorstep. I said, I'm sorry. And, okay, fine. What am I going to say? No, if they're on my doorstep. You don't have a plus one, but okay. And they didn't ask before. This isn't their partner or anything.

They just brought a random person. And they didn't ask? This story gets worse. So they come in. I go, oh hi, this is Bruce. Yes. I meet Bruce. I go, Bruce is a big fan of Sexted.

Oh, fantastic. Which is a show, William's podcast. Great, lovely. So you've got a stalker in your house? Thrilled. Anyway, we have a party this year. Not a house, I mean, just a party. And we thought, right, as a way to try to sort of...

And I don't think, you know, this guest had not done it maliciously. She doesn't really understand. This is a catered party. Okay, so there's a cost involved. effort, etc. Other people don't have plus ones either, so we can't start a lot unless they're in a couple or whatever. And I duplicated the invitation. It was a paperless invitation to be eco. So we duplicated it and sent to this particular guest, a version that said, named guests only, and then later on in the blurb, it said due to numbers, we're unable to accommodate plus ones this year. Reminder was sent to her on the day about travel.

I popped that in there too. And then I get a text 10 minutes into the party saying, hi, I'm on my way. I'm with my friend, Sharon. Do you mind if I bring her? Oh my God. And I thought, I'm just not going to respond to that. Because if I don't respond to it, I'm hosting a party.

I'm not with my phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to try on to it. Doorbell goes. There they are. Sharon's there. And how, and in the moment... Text this morning, I'm so glad you finally met Sharon.

I didn't know Sharon existed until she was in my house. Anyway. That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because... So to be generous, it could be a insecurity thing. Yeah. That if, you know, this person is single. But again, had I got a message...

I know, but you know what? I get it. Can I bring someone? If there was some say in it, if we had some... say, which I don't think is unreasonable in your own house. But I do think also, and I get that people get frightened. I'm single, and I have the best time at parties because I go on my own. And so I circulate, I've had to get good at socialising. Do you know what I mean?

It's like, I don't really have much time for that. Oh, I'm frightened. Can I bring a little friend? It's like, it's not primary school. No. And I get some people that are a bit shy than others, but you don't turn up to someone's house with an and also this friend knows enough. Come on, see what's happened to you while he's gone on strike now.

You're refusing Raymond? I'll give you a little carry, my love. You are an old man. Don't me to hold anything, dog or coffee. So good manners, isn't he? I love him. I want to know a bit more about your childhood at this point. Yes. So, we're going under the bridge.

Okay. Should we go under this? I like the look of whatever it is. So you grew up, you were saying it was just outside of Bristol. Yeah. And it's you, do you have a... have a brother? I do. I have a younger brother. Yeah. So it's the two of you and your mum and dad. Mm-hmm. Oh, our voices have gone very echoy here. I rather like it, though.

Very atmospheric. So, it's you and your brother and your mum and dad. Yeah. And your dad, am I right in thinking he's sort of a property developer? Yes. Every time I talk about him in interviews and then he then sees it, he tells me off that I've said the wrong thing. So I've just decided I'll just make up what he did. Let's just make it up. Yes. He was an astronaut. Yeah, he sort of before me, before he even met my mother, he's a qualified, he's a chartered surveyor. He qualified as a charter surveyor. Oh, wow.

But he has not done a day's surveying since his surveying exams. Right. Then he was an estate agent. Then he became a property developer. And I used to say he was a land agent because he would buy land and then sell it. Well, that is a land agent as far as I'm. But apparently land agent has another connotation, not another connotation, but could mean that he sort of looked after somebody's estate, which is not what he did. Oh, I see. Yeah, they don't want to turn him into some Mellers gamekeeper type.

Yes, exactly. So yeah, that's, and he still does that. He's, you know. Look at that. Is that a heron, William? I think it is a heron. Aren't they impressive? I wouldn't want them getting near Ray. I think he'd be their dinner. Yeah. You have to watch these little dogs with birds of press. You know. Hello heron.

Oh it turned around. Oh look. Look, there's a heron and then a heron statue in the distance. Look at that. If we had a long lens, that is a nice photo. That is so cool. Hello heron. They're beautiful looking birds, aren't they?

And your mum worked, she worked for House of Fraser? Yes, she was on the management scheme at House of Fraser Group, but she stopped working when she had me. Yeah, to sort of raise you guys. Yeah. And what would you do? describe your sort of atmosphere at home like was it a sort of structured household oh very structured was it I'm very happy oh that's nice I'm very fortunate I more I get on in life I realized that not a lot of people came from very happy homes we don't think I

ever saw my parents or have never seen my parents argue bicker when my father you know go to waitress and forget to buy the Greek yogurt that was sort of about as tense as it got and my mother would be a bit annoyed I mean it's not exactly the inciting incident for a misery memoir is it? No, yes I do think if the time comes when I start to write a memoir, there's no child's drover to talk about, not from home anyway. So pretty happy childhood and you, as a kid, were you always quite polite, quite well put together, this sense of sort of, which you definitely have it's a sense of you being very polished yeah we were watching some we went

around for my cousins 30th birthday in Bristol a few weekends ago and my uncle started to show some old videos he'd found I was quite a serious child on reflection looking at it I didn't smile very much and I took everything very seriously well I didn't I didn't but yes whereas Compared to my brother, my brother used to sort of run around naked and was a wild child in the sense. I mean, it wasn't, you know, wasn't that wild, but was much more extroverted. And ironically, he's actually quite introverted now and I'm probably more extroverted. So we seem to have switched.

Can I look at these beautiful swans? Yes. Do you like them, William? I do like swans. I mean, don't want to get on the wrong side of a swan. I often hear that. They're quite aggressive. Oh, yeah.

No, no, no. I mean, they're not as aggressive as geese. What I like is they have, from a fashion perspective, is that they've got those beautiful white plumage and then these sort of spice girls black plumpy boots. Do you know what I mean? That's what I love about a swan. Yes. They should have little dainty glittery laboutan, but they don't. They've gone for the thick black, ugly platforms. But they're very interesting birds.

You sort of want to be friends with the swan, but I don't think you can stroke a swan. I don't think they'll like that. No, I think you're possibly right. These ones in Hyde Park are probably as tame as they come in terms of it does look there's even a sign one of them's next time today Don't put your hands near them Well it's got a picture of a hand which looks like sort of an Osferatu's hand It has also does the hand look like it's got a hole in the middle of the park Maybe that's that's that's that's that's what'll happen

So So talking of which don't fit one of my favourite things is Mary Poppins and when I was at recently at Disneyland Paris I wish I'd taken a photograph there was a sign that said don't feed the birds. I'd like pick a lane Disney. You're an entire song about it and now you're confusing us. Ooh. That's a pigeon. Oh it's a shame. Yeah. We're not like we don't love pigeons. It's not their fault. They've been born on the wrong side of the tracks.

They can't help it. So I'm loving the sound of Junior, William. Would people have expected, should we sit on the bench for a bit, William? Yes. Would people like? people have expected when they came around were you always to the house yes I would apparently well I'd I like to tell it that my parents would ask me to go and answer the daughter guests when they had dinner I actually think I just ran

there I don't know if I was asked and I would sort of greet people take their coats and show them through to the drawing room that sort of thing and what would you say would you go hello would you speak were you quite adult yes oh yeah were you I was always more interested with the adults so I'm the guest little William is it ding dong or not What were we? We were a pull. Oh I'm going to go for a pole. Yes. Ling Ling Ling Ling Ling Ling. Hello William. Hello. No we don't accept Jehovah's witnesses. Thank you. No I did go say how well I knew who was coming so I'd go

Hello Richard and Isabel do come on through. Right. Oh so very very Paul Burrell probably I think very poor burrell how rude. That's a dangerous thing to say when Where there's an open body of water, Emily. Have I ever had a guest around you? Very sort of... It's funny actually because we had these families... Would you like to... Oh yeah, shall we?

When William did that, he gestured expansibly to the bench. Like he was saying, please, come in... Like it was a drive at downtown Abbey. Now, we want young Freddie... Yeah. Who's your chap? Yeah. And Will, who's my chap...

Yeah. To be able to sit down. Why didn't you sit on the end? Yes, it's funny. We had these friends, these family friends, and the two boys were at Winchester, and it really stood out how... The way they were taught to my mother was so sophisticated, even when they were eight or something. And she'd go, hello, Hamish, darling. Oh, Christine, this is crazy.

We haven't seen you for ages. This is crazy. And he'd obviously picked up on a parent talking like that or something. sounded so odd for an eight-year-old. This is crazy. They sound amazing. They are well amazing. But I think that's really interesting that that came from you. Why do you think you were sort of like that? I don't know. I think it's probably because I didn't know how to, or didn't know how to, or didn't know how to, interact necessarily with other children. I mean, I did have very close friends at school, but I just, I wasn't very interested in them.

Really? Or interested in what they wanted to do. Like I'd go and, when I was then in the upper school, I'd go and hang out in the print room with the Virger, who was also head of the photocopying department. And we'd just, and chat. This was probably more actually upper sixth and lower sixth, because I had free periods. But I get all the gossip was what's happening in the staff room, which I found so much more interesting.

Well, that's interesting because we were talking before about often you do find people who end up performing in some way. My not only question is normally what's your damage. But in your case... No, I'm not damaged. You're not damaged, but you did have a sense of difference, which I do think that is

possibly something. And it's probably the gay thing. Yeah. Probably. And sort of just safer in that environment because the kids, you know, I mean they were largely fine. Again, I wasn't really that bullied because I was gay.

Not that, again, no massive trauma there bits, but nothing that anyone else hasn't been through. But it's just that sense of slight otherness, I suppose, and that these aren't really my people. You know, and some, I guess it sounds like maybe you were thinking, I'm still waiting to find my people, and you hadn't really found them at school, maybe. Yes, and I'm still close with several friends from school, very close.

but probably close with university friends. Yeah. And the school was in, is it Clifton College? Yeah. Yeah. And that's, is it just outside Bristol? No, it's in the centre. It's in Clifton, which is part of Bristol.

And what sort of college, what sort of school is that? Is it quite traditional? Yes, I mean, it's a minor public school. It was, I mean, this says everything about Clifton. It was built to look a lot older than it actually is. It's quite, it's quite key. Like a McMaster. Yeah, exactly. I mean it goes about to 18 something or other.

That's quite old. Well, yeah, but not compared to some of them. Some of them get so competitive. I make school in Highgate Village and Highgate Boys, which is the school there, they would always pride themselves when they say, who's your best old boy? And they say, Chaucer. You can't really meet Jeffrey Chaucer.

I mean, that is a really good old boy to have, isn't it? Yes, we had John Cleese. He was our most, probably still is off. Oh, that's quite cool. It's a good one. He got, supposedly, there's all sorts of rumours and stuff. And he's never really talked about it, but whether he got suspended or expelled for doing various pranks, throwing. Well, there was one where supposedly there was a statue of St George in the quad overlooking the playing fields. Well, the garden, as I called it, because I didn't do much playing on them.

And they... The garden. The grounds. And he supposedly at night got a bucket of peasant. and stood in it at their foot of the state and then walked across the quadrangle to the gentleman's loos and back again. So it looked like the statue had got off in the middle of the night and gone to the loo and then come back. It was quite a funny joke if that happened. And then the thing that supposedly got him the final nail in his coffin was during commemoration

day, which is like the big speech day, foundation day, blah blah blah. He had got a man, I mean it's very politically incorrect. He got a mannequin dressed it up in school uniform, climbed to the top of the Wilson Tower, which is the biggest tower. And whilst everyone was gathered in the quadrangle all the dignitaries and the parent shouted I can't go on I've had enough of the homework and threw this mannequin off yeah yes which I can see why the school got rid of him if indeed that happens it does yeah it makes sense I mean it's sort of funny but it's not funny but very John Cleese very John Cleese very on brand yeah yeah I can see that So generally, even though you're sort of not feeling particularly like throwing yourself into the social life of school, you're still feeling...

Did you sort of have that sense that... I mean, were you academic? Did you enjoy that side of things? No. I mean, I wasn't... I was... I got worse academically as I got older. Did you? I was always top set for everything until I was sort of 15. How do you think that was? Other than maths.

The path has never been my strong point. I don't know. And then I just dropped down a few sets, although English I was top set. I don't know. And then I sort of just think couldn't be bothered with subjects I didn't like. Yeah. But then we have this thing called exams.

And they don't like it when you don't do very well in exams. And you, it was your grandmother, from what I understand, who first kind of got you interested in Essek, really. Yes. Because she, did you buy you a copy of, was it DeBretz? She did, yeah. It was the John Morgan edition of DeBrette. And we should explain what Debrecht is, if anyone doesn't know.

Yes, they are, well, they were, basically, they started off in the 1700s as in effect, what we've now called the Yellow Pages, if indeed we still have that. For posh people, yes. But they obviously didn't list telephone numbers, but they would list the baron, blah, blah, blah, who had this child. Yeah, and then they say they live in the Bolton's or whatever. And they did that. And then in the sort of the 1980s, late 1980s, they started to write. an etiquette. They decided to write an etiquette book, which was written by Elsie Birch Donald.

I discovered recently, it's still alive. Because I thought Elsie Birch Donald was dead. But no, she was in her 20s and verses, wouldn't she wrote it? You all have to meet her. Well, I try to reach out to her. No, I didn't get a response. It'll be like Ian Wright meeting his old teacher. Have you ever seen that clip that went viral? No. And the footballer Ian Wright meets his teacher who inspired him to play football and he says, Mr. Piglin. I thought he was dead.

And he says, no, Ian. like that with Elsie. You'd be Elsie. Unless you, Ian, you would never say, I thought you was, Ted. I would not know. My English teachers would not be very happy. So no, she's a love.

Then John Morgan, who is dead and died. He'd actually die, committed suicide. I took his own life, I should say. I knew John Morgan actually because I worked at a Sunday Times when I was young and he was there. And then he went to GQ, I think, for a bit. Yeah. This is a terribly sad. Terribly sad.

What happened? He lived in Albany, I seem to remember, which is a very, Which is a very, sort of it was like the address in London, wasn't it? Yes, but he was in, I think, the smallest possible flat there. Purported to have a particular lifestyle, you know, lavish lifestyle, but was actually incredibly lonely. Oh, bless him. And ultimately chose to take his own life. So, yeah, Granny gave me that book, it was very funny.

And I think had she given me, no disrespect to Elsie, but had she given me the Elsie version of the book, which is still very good, but without the jokes. It's kind of the same book. It follows the same pattern. John just basically put in some catty asides. I don't think I'd be sitting here. So she gave me that book. And it's sort of things like, you know, it's those societal...

It's not really... Would you describe it as rules or recommendations? Yeah, guidelines. No one really... I mean, there are people that do, but I'm not saying you have to do this. Just saying, I think, Sometimes 90% of the time life is better if you do.

But yeah, sometimes you've got to break the rule to do the right thing. As long as you're doing the right thing, you're a nice person. That's what matters. We've got to know what rules you're breaking in order to do the right thing, not just blindly hope that you're getting it right. Has he gone to sleep? He's having a little sleep. I'm sorry if I'm boring you.

Ray, Ray, this is terribly rude to sleep when Williams. No, it means he likes it. Fred is dropped off as well. He feels soothed. No, well, that's nice. There's certain voices he likes. He likes Lewis Capaldi. Oh.

You like Chopin? It's not a voice I'd be particularly soothed by, if I'm honest. Well, it's weird that he likes Lewis Capaldi, but he also like Chopin. Which I feel him liking Chopin's music is a bit more on brand. That's more on brand to Lewis Capaldi. It was a shock. Who talked about rimming on BBC Breakfast. He doesn't like that.

He likes his romantic love songs. Yeah. Oh, I see. Oh, no, he likes this. to the musical. No, he doesn't like listening to him speaking on BBC breakfast. Are you kidding me? Look at this, we're just watching something. People on a pedalo. People, what do you think of a pedalo? I can't remember if I've ever been on one. I can't see you on one. No, I think there might be, I might be going on one in a few weeks in Spain. Really? Don't ask. Your new life.

So after you go to university to read English, that seems to suitable for you. Yeah, English language, yeah. Yeah, I like that. Are you not literature? No. And it was at Manchester you went to? Yeah, I couldn't be bothered to read 10 books in a day, which is sort of what I was told sort of had to happen if you did English literature. That's true, I had to do that. I mean, I struggled with that. I'd struggle with that. It was a lot of staying up all night. Thinking, oh no, Northanger Abbey, page 390. Yeah, and again, books I don't want to read. Right. It's not like, oh, read 10 Agatha Christ is right, oh, all right, I can do that. But I don't care about the Canterbury Tale. Sorry, George.

Second reference to Chaucer. So you do English, and then at that point are you sort of thinking, because it started, we should go back in terms of your career and the whole etiquette thing, while you were at school, you started teaching the younger boys how to do table settings. Yeah, literally how to set a table. I found the other day my first piece of printed press coverage that I got, launching me in the Bristol region what is now called the post but was the Bristol Evening Post.

It's this double-page spread on my first quoted word so camp, I'm so pleased. Our first quote, literally the article opens with obviously something I had said to the 12-year-olds, which I don't think I've ever said since was mind the overhang. It's hilarious. Of the tablecloth. Oh, so you can't have too much than overhang. No. Well actually you probably could. I can't even remember the tablecloth. I'm

stumped at the school gave us tablecloths to use. So did you become at that point a sort of and finally news story of it? Yes. Did you? Yeah and it was Britain's youngest etiquette coach was the story. Okay. And then I can't remember what it was but I can remember a couple of years in, just someone found out just for a quote. And I was like, oh you just want to quote. Lovely. All I need to do is give you three sentences on tipping or something. thing. I'm not the story

in all, that's quite nice. And so, while you went, when you went to college and things, were you still doing sort of the odd media appearance? Yes, yeah, so the, the, the, the, the, receiving post was my last, my upper sixth at school.

University, I don't say uni. Younger people say uni. Oh no. Educated people went to university, the rest go to uni. It's my attitude. I hate it. I refuse to write. Get on board with you. If I'm having to text, I'll put Univ with a V. I really cannot be bothered.

But I refuse to say uni. Uni as you were doing beer pong. University as you were studying. In my opinion. Yeah, so no, I then got a lot of coverage. I was in Tattler and the Telegraph in between school and university. And doing what I'm saying again. That was a story.

precocious etiquette expert. In fact, it was Richard Denon who now edits Tatler, who did my piece in Tatler. And it was just introducing you as, you know. Who's this upstart, 18-year-old, yes. How did you feel about that? Were you proud and happy? And did you think, right, okay, this could be a career. Yes, I was, although I didn't love it.

I mean, I don't know if I've ever told Richard this. I've run into him occasionally. I'll never think he quoted me, which is fine. when I was referring to my grandmother, Granny, he quoted me of calling her nan, which I absolutely would not have done. Thank you very much. I don't think I've ever referred to her as, if I did refer to her as now, I would have been given a short shrift. And that was quoted, and I thought, well, now everyone's going to think I refer to her as nan.

And Tatleridus, you know, they're so judgy. Anyway. I love that that's the worst misquote you've ever. Well, it's not, actually, but it was the worst at the time. Maybe I should sue. So had you already decided at that point? Because that's quite unusual to have a sort of a little public facing side hustle like that. Are you thinking maybe there could be a career in this?

Yes, I didn't know it was going to be a career. It was only sort of first year of university that I thought, oh, this could be. This could be it. Yeah. I wanted to be a newsreader. Oh, I can see that. Yeah. The only thing about being a news reader?

is that I worry sometimes it doesn't allow your soul to sing openly. No, you've got to control yourself. But I wanted to be a newsreader like, well, I won't mention, there's only one of this type left, still working. Is this person still employed? Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, no, no, no, very much so. And I wanted to sort of just turn up, look at the scripts, tweak it a little bit, read it, Yeah. Go across to the Langham for a Martini, go back and do the tent. Shuffle some papers. It still happens. And whereas now they want the newsreaders to have done 10 years in Basdra and all of that.

And it's not for me. You don't want that. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday. So whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.