Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - William Hanson (Part Two)

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

In part two of Emily and Ray’s walk with William Hanson, William reveals more about his unlikely journey from a boy fascinated by good manners to one of Britain's most recognisable etiquette experts.He discusses his rise to fame, the success of Help I Sexted My Boss with Jordan North, and how a lifelong passion for etiquette has turned into a career that's taken him in some rather unexpected directions.There's also more about his latest projects, including a brand new course for BBC Maestro, exploring modern etiquette and social confidence, and his first foray into fiction with the crime novel A Fatal Forking. William shares more about the book and what inspired him to try his hand at writing a murder mystery.If you haven't already, catch up on part one of Emily's walk with William, where they explore his childhood in Bristol and the etiquette book that started it all.A Fatal Forking is available to pre-order now ahead of its release next May.William's BBC Maestro course, Modern Etiquette and Social Confidence, launches on bbcmaestro.com on December 4th. BBC Maestro is the home of online courses taught by the world's leading experts, and William's is about helping people handle any social situation with confidence. To get 40% off the course, use the code - WALKINGDOG40Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with the wonderful etiquette expert William Hanson and by the way do remember to give walking the dog a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's William and Ray Ray. So when so after you graduated did you start working because as a company I know that you initially worked for called, is it called the English Manor? Which you initially work for now you own. Yeah. Did you, it? immediately start working for them? Yes, so Alexandra Miservi, who was former Royal Household, who started the English Manor in 2001, read about me in Tatler and the Telegraph, so that in the same week, they just sort of overlapped.

Tap around the Telegraph, we know your demographics at that point. Yes. I'm not seeing the Sawreauway Sun in there. No, no, no, no. And she just wrote to me and said, right, well, if you're going to be doing this, you're going to be doing it for me, as a way of probably neutralising the opposition.

and good on her. Do you want to tell us what the English manor is? Yeah, we are a modern day finishing school I guess. We're an etiquette training institute but we don't have a premises. It's manor double NER, not M-A-N-O-R. Yeah. And we work with businesses, individuals, organisations all around the world, telling them the right thing to do. And is that partly to do with, I can imagine, so let's say,

a newly emerging superpower like, you know, China, where suddenly there's an explosion of personal wealth and high net worth individuals and you've got the Gucci bag and you've got the you know, expensive tea set or all these things. But you don't know how to carry the Gucci bag. Is that what it is? Yeah, so I first worked in China in 2011 and at the same time I was finishing off my dissertation. I remember being this hostel in China trying to write my dissertation at the same time where there was a very demeaning incident where I had to go downstairs.

There was only one role of Lou Role and I thought, in fact it was half a role in my book, I had a private room. And you're working for the English manner at this point. Yes. And I thought, well, I'm going to get ahead of this and I'm going to go and ask for another Lou Role now before it's a problem. They didn't speak any English and I don't know if you've ever had to mime in the middle of a reception, please can have more Lou Role. but I did.

And I got more Lou Role. Anyway, so I was writing my dissertation, and that was the first time I was working in China, and no one had a clue what I had a clue was. No one had a clue. Really? And then quite quickly, we then, yeah, and then I spent most of my life living in China,

going back up until just before COVID. And there's a real high demand for that sort of British culture thing. And now you've got expats who live British expats or French expats who live in China, who basically do the gig. So there's no need to fly in the expense of people from London. And are you teaching what will happen?

Will it say it's a Saudi royal prince or you're teaching them how to behave in England? Do you know what I mean? How will it work? Yes. Well, I'm not teaching Chinese etiquette when I go to China or whatever. No, no, no, no.

But you're teaching a British etiquette. And so how does that work in terms of do they have a specific list of things they want to learn. So will it be, I'm going to Royal Ascot, I don't know how to behave on that day or what are the rules there? Yes, actually, it's very rarely as specific as event. I mean, it has been events. Weddings, we get a lot of weddings. People go, oh, I've got this wedding coming up. And what sort of questions would they ask for the wedding? Seating plans, invitation. Hats or no hat. Hat or not, yeah, dress code. How do they tell the guests certain things,

that sort of thing. Lots of diet, we do a lot of dining etiquette classes because we have made it difficult in to eat? Well I had the rudest thing happen to me once which I think you're going to find unforgivable and again I will tell you afterwards who did this. Okay. I was just, there are two people you've got to tell me. You're going to know everything. It was a swanky dinner and as I arrived this person who I subsequently met and liked by the way but I think possibly they just showed them we all have an aberration in us. Yeah. And I saw him going around looking at the plasma. Oh, well done you for calling at class small. Thank you. I was well raised.

Yes. And... That means seating plan for our C2D e-listeners. Oh, shut up. He was looking... I'm so not pop. I'm arts and crafts. I asked my mother when I was young boy.

I said, what class are we not? And she said, we're classless, darling. And when I told a boyfriend that, he said, I think the darling mother goes away, don't you? Which I like, anyway. I saw him moving the plasma because he wanted to sit next to a very influential person in the TV world. And he was sat next to me and he obviously thought, what can this woman where the silly dog podcast do for me?

So he swapped his plasma to sit next to her. And I saw him do it and I called him out. What did he say? We were sitting there and he said something like, it was only because he said, oh, look, there's an empty chair next to you. And that's when I broke because I thought, well, we know there's an empty chair because you moved. So I said, yeah, well, the reason there's an empty chair is that you moved seats. Like, he went what? And he would flushed.

I said, I saw you doing it. It's fine. That's when I broke. Yeah. Don't go through the pretense of, yeah. Don't offer me sympathy when you're responsible for my mind. So anyway, in the end... Did he move back?

He left quite early after that. Don't blame him. But that's... Well, well done you. That is sort of... Although some might say what I did was not in line with etiquette, because it was rude. Yeah, but this is another misconception is to follow it, to be a good person doesn't mean say you have to be a push over. Really?

Okay, that's good. You can still follow the rules of etiquette and manners and, yeah. I was very boundered last night. Do you know, I haven't told you this yet, but I was very, in fact, you're going to get an email. He's talking, William is talking to Freddie. We will, we're going to call him head of operations. Yeah, he's, he's, he's, are you comfortable with that? Manager, management.

Yeah, management, okay. We're above. Yeah. We're above operations. And, yeah, so we were, we'd all had a group of friends, including Freddie. my husband and I had dinner, Mike and I walk into the tube, and this guy sort of come trotting after me and said, oh, oh, hi, hi, you're William, aren't you?

You're on Instagram, isn't you? Hello. This is a stranger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought, here we go, we're going to ask for a photo, which is fine. Not going to say yes to anyone. And he went, oh, yeah, I've got this scheme where I get people involved or get people to Cambridge, et cetera.

Would you mind if, you know, like you could, you know, we could do something? I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, absolutely fine. Well, let me give you my manager's email. He said, oh, no, oh, not, don't give me an email. I want your phone number. And I went, I will give you my manager's email. Oh, good. And he sort of looked at me and went, okay,

and just handed this email over, his phone over, so I put it in. And I thought, do I put it in like, you know, Bob at whatever, but I actually gave Fred's email. But I was, and Mikey went, well done you for setting boundaries and not caving, because I think, oh, about a year ago, I've probably gone,

Here we go, it's 07, blah blah blah. Yes. But then anyway, as I was, this is why we're not going to respond to this, as he was handing over his phone, there was an email that came in, not from the person in myself. It was probably the newsletter from Andrew Tate. Yeah. So not responding to that email.

Anyway, hello if you listen. You're very polite, but is, a bit pushy. You really don't feel bad about setting boundaries with someone like that. No, exactly. Come on. You see, he will walk to heel, but he will walk at his pace. We've only got little legs.

No. Raymond, let me pick you up. Come on, my love. So, let's hurry up and get you famous, William. Because you, what was, obviously I first heard of you through this brilliant podcast that you do with Jordan North. Yeah. Help I sexted my boss. Which, when did you do the first episode?

We recorded the pilot at the end of 2017. Yeah. So quite a while ago now. Yeah, and then we launched in March 2018. And you guys had met because you were working as an etiquette expert. Yep. He was on Work Experience at Five Live, was chaperading me in and out of the studio for an item I was doing one evening. We made each other laugh.

I thought, yeah, you're very nice, won't see you again. And then he moved in with some mutual friends in Manchester. And I went to go and visit them and they were there and we became very good friends. And you became cute. And the podcast has taken off. I imagine in a way that's even surprised you. Oh, yes. I mean, Jordan, I literally remember saying, I remember phone calls with friends going, who had listened.

And I've gone, oh, well, it's, you know, it's quite fun. I suspect we'll sort of, we'll do three series if we're lucky. Yeah. And that'll be that. Really? And here we are. And there are live shows now. Yes, yes, we were doing arenas at the start of the year,

me dressed as Kylie Minogue. Do you think you also, one thing I've noticed about you since you've been doing that podcast, I think you've become a bit more playful? Yes. Would you say that's fair enough? Well, I think I always had that side in me. I just sort of suppressed it too much. Why?

Societal pressure, I don't know, or just lack of confidence. And actually you realise that actually you can probably take it to some extremes in some instances and still manage to have a career. Wow. And for working at what works and what does. I mean my first many first three, four years of TV stuff, again, I was so serious. Cute, cute child we've just looked at. And then I did a weekly segment on a seminal program called Let's Let's. do lunch with Gino and Mel which used to come on in the summer when loose women they all had you know they went and had facelifts and Gino and Mel would come on and it was that I made I said Gino did something and I did a slight put down and it got a huge laugh and I went oh I could do this but make it funny really and

And thus, that was a big turning point. Deal with all sorts of extraordinary etiquette dilemmas. Yes, we're very grateful that people have such depraved lives and they feel the need to share it with us. What's the most common thing that comes in that you could almost do every week as a podcast? What are the issues that people regularly seem to agonise over? We've gone through in the last couple of years, I don't love it, we've gone through quite a lot of poo related question. You'd love it because, you know, all your stuff that you were doing at the start of this. All my stuff, picking up my dog's poo.

I mean, it's not a fetish, William. It's not, that's not my thing. Well, it is for a lot of our listeners, it turns out. It's not my king. It's just something my dog unfortunately does. but so a lot of people like doing a poo in a lavatory yeah well i nearly said the dreaded you know my mom had three words that abandoned our house mhm pl t she called it pardon lounge toilet yes okay i love it do you do you like plt do you like plt was she right to ban those words yes well lounge is a bit

sort of hotely or airporty toilet is inaccurate we said loo yeah lou's fine or lavatory and what we had to say instead of pardon. Yes, although I was in Foyles bookshop yesterday and I asked for a receipt. Yeah. And the cashier went, what? And I went and I thought, well, I know your sorry, sorry, is, especially in a customer service facing role. I know, at least you didn't say pardon, but actually it was so aggressive and like, what? I haven't asked for anything difficult. So you were saying the most, the things that come up most commonly in terms of, and not just on the podcast you do with Jordan, but in life, the etiquette questions that keep people awake at night,

what would you say your top two or three are? How to eat things. Really? We do a lot of friendship-y, sort of relationship-y, friendship-y, relationship-y questions on the podcast. What should they do? You know, their friend's done something annoying. How can they deal with it?

So people, and that's peculiarly British thing I think, is... Well, yes, because I think we care as a nation. We do actually care how we interact with other people. Well, I think we also... More than others. I'm not saying other people from other national states. We fear confrontation a bit more, maybe, than say, your average American. Oh, yeah, no, they drive into the confrontation, which we should do more of, actually, to be honest.

Yeah. They are... When I picked Raymond up earlier for that photo and held them in my face, Have you got hairs? A bit of raven coming out my mouth. Not the first time I said that in Hyde Park. Can I just say, when he says he's got a bit of raiment coming out of his mouth, it's not Winston or Mears or...

Oh, they're cleaning the pedinoles. Well, at least they're clean. Yeah, well that's good to know. It makes me want to be in a pedalo more. Yeah. So it generally that kind of thing is, you know, people, want to know. It's eating. It's... And I do wonder whether part of my popularity or any etiquette's popularity, because there

are many other people that do this, is because it is not taught as much. Oh yeah. And it used to be such a staple and it became very politically incorrect to teach it or to talk about it because people wrongly link it to class. That's really true, isn't it? just about being a nice person and actually that that is as your mother would say classless. Darling. Darling. Do you think at all that I wonder about the current princess of Wales as opposed to the former? Yeah. Not suggesting she's going to be replaced. It's just distinguishing it. Well she will eventually that's how it works.

So Catherine Medalton. Yes. I wonder as well the timing is interesting in terms of your career taking off and people suddenly needing someone like you. Well, you had China emerging as the superpower. Then you've got Catherine Middleton. It's sort of this absolute rom-com story, isn't it? Yes. And also the raw wedding of William and Catherine, 2011, was when I was finishing university and Downton had just started as well. Downton, of course. So I genuinely do think the timing was right. Yeah. And I was pleased it happened then because I had finished university. So I had sort of done the studies, got the degree and then was launched proper. Well I mean I was doing I was working anyway but could make it a full time. And you have worked, have you worked for

royals? I've worked for five royal households in the course of my career. Beyond that I'd have to kill you. Oh my I think one might be in this country. He's smiling and looking wistfully over towards Buckingham Palace but we won't say anything. Tell me about Maestro. Yes. This is something you're doing for the BBC. Well, I'm flattered they asked. Yes, so BBC Maestro, which is this sort of beer moth of online learning.

And they have great leading names doing online courses, self-guided online courses, a series of videos and whatnot that you can sign up to and learn from the great. you know great the greatest chef that's currently living doing cookery or someone doing and they've actually got I presume it's AI Agatha Christie on writing so that that's one that you can do but that most of them are living people and these are courses that you do buy the BBC essentially yes it's the BBC's commercial arm yeah and yeah anyone anywhere in the world can can learn it so in December We've got my modern manners and social confidence course launching.

I'm going to sign up. Thank you very much. I need it, let's be honest. No, you don't. But so you sign up to this and it's you, this is great as well, because it's you talking. That feels like a great way to learn because it's not exposing as well. Yeah, and you can do it in your own time.

And also it's private. And you see, I think particularly for something like etiquette, especially for Brits and some other nationalities, they don't want others to know if they've had the training. That's it. There's not that it's in it is the net curtain twitchy-tritchie mentality. So you know you can you can subscribe to the course and no one will know you have. And you're covering everything from

friendship, table manners, table manners, meeting and greeting, business etiquette. There's a great fun bit where I've looked through clips from films and TV and review what's going on. I mean it's a fun bit that's sort of towards the end of the course. in terms of the etiquette going on yeah so pretty woman Titanic I mean pretty woman etiquette went out the window in that film but it's a

I wouldn't call it Markwood's of Queensbrioles there but it was it was fun including I mean it was also so I don't know whether they'll keep this in because I'm yet to see the course is launching soon and I'm yet to see it all edited but it was a bit where we're watching Titanic and it's the dinner scene

where you've got Cal and Ruth and Rose and Leonardo Jack. And I've just come out of the West End doing a stint as Ruth, De Witt Bakater and Titanic. Yes, you need Titanic. I realised half of my scripts from the film. And I went, oh, I really, really, really should have watched the film again before I went into it, because that's why that line makes sense. But never mind.

We should also talk about your book, which is so exciting. Yes, my first novel. Yeah. A fatal forking. I mean, how brilliant is that? Thank you. It was originally going to be called something else, but I was told it was one word too long. Oh.

Picky, picky. So do they like three words, do they, with prime novels? Well, they didn't like five. Oh, really? So even though one of them was the the, which I think doesn't really count. Literacy standards are going down. People won't understand five, would you? Exactly.

And it's called The Faith of Walking. I'm hoping that somebody in this novel is an etiquette expert. The protagonist, yes. And is he tall and blonde and dashing? No, he's not, actually. No. No, I try to make him very different from me. Because he is, of course, in no way inspired by me.

Oh, look, there's some ponies. Oh. Do you go? go riding? No. I think I did as a child. I'm not quite into it for a while. Did I say that right? I said riding. You did say riding. Well done. So what would have been inaccurate? Horseback riding. Do people say horse riding? Or horse riding. Horseback riding is what they'll say in America. Horse riding is maybe less preferable in this country. I want to get back to your book to find out a bit more. But just quickly before I do, what makes you win? What makes you win?

What word makes you wince when people use it in conversation? P. Not as in the little green vegetable. Are we as a euphemism for... Wee. No, no, actually we-wee's pretty grim. Just wee. It's fine. I do that because of Raymond. Everything's Ray-Rae, We-Wee. You don't like pee.

No. So if someone said, if I'm sitting with you at dinner, I need a P. Well, A, don't announce it anyway. Even if you say we, just go. just go what would you think when I say just go I mean leave the table I don't mean just you know let your bladder go so and what about bathroom is American just going to the bathroom is American unless there's a bath in it okay so what's a I'm sitting with you and my bladder is bursting yeah what do I say please excuse me really so you need to say please excuse me yeah I mean I know way I mean we can all work it out what you do where you go I mean if you get your

coach as you stand up I mean I might be slightly worried what about if I say I'm just going to the ladies. Well in a private house that would be ridiculous because there isn't ladies or a gentleman's. Well you haven't seen my house. Um no but if I'm in a restaurant can I say I'm just going to the ladies. I'd rather you didn't but I'm not I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if you do. Is it a a bit Tyersinth bouquet? Uh yes actually at Hyacinth didn't really ever talk about bathroom. She said bathrooms should be seen and not heard. I think That was the only quote we had from her about lavatorial masses.

This is interesting because I think why she was so enduring and successful as a character is because people do have a genuine anxiety about these things. Yes. And she ramped it up for all of us. But she was anxious herself, but then thus made people more anxious in the process of doing so. Yeah. It's such a good show. Well, it was so great. She's so great Patricia out.

isn't she? Yes, I was told, I haven't told you this, I was told there is a play being developed and I was told who's actually in it and who's writing it and I went, that'll work. So, I'm very excited. You tell me in our meeting, yes, yes. So go on, so this book, so there's, I'm assuming there's a murder of some description. There is, yes, potentially more than one. Really? Oh, you've gone out of her on me. Say no more. Say no more. Yes.

So it was a way, in fact, do you know Sophia Money Coots? I do. Yes. She's nuts about doggies as well. She is, yes. She and I met up in 2019 for a coffee because we had some mutual friends. We just thought we'd say hi. And she said, oh, I bet you could write a great autobiography.

And I said, oh, yes, but I'd never work again. So I will wait until the end of my career. And she said, well, just write it as a novel. I went, oh, that's quite sensible. So a lot of these things might well be inspired by things that happen in the IRL. Plus a murder, which is not real. Not real. And I love murder mistress and I used to read them at school and still do.

Do you feel nervous about? Because there's something sort of uniquely personal about this, I think. When you're sharing your creativity, do you know what I mean? Particularly with a first fiction. Yes. It's like I've created this world and I want, you know, I'm confident enough that you're going to enjoy this world. Do you feel nervous about it? Are you someone who does feel nerves? Yes, because this is not, I haven't done this before.

I mean, I've had a great, great fun writing it and it sort of, most of it was sort of plotted out in 2019. Right. And then it was finessed when it finally got commissioned last year and will be out in May, 2027. Yeah. So no, I'm excited for people to read it. Not many people have read it yet, but proof copies are coming soon. Well, I want to be getting one thing, thank you, Freddie. I shall talk to the publisher.

I'm super excited. No, I'm excited. It's nice to do something different. You seem, William, you're immensely controlled. I have my moments. Well, that's what I'm interested in. What do your moments look like? Well, you wouldn't want to know.

No. No, they're not, I mean, look in the grand scheme of things, they're fine. I'm living my twenties in my thirties. Do you? What does that mean? Well, just, you know, having a nice time and just enjoying yourself. And I don't think I ever really let my head on because I didn't really drink. Yeah. And I was too busy working. And my advice to anyone younger is don't bother too much having a nice time in your twenties do it.

first is when you can afford it. You'll have a better time. Your social media has really taken off. You've got how many followers across your various platforms? Across various platforms. I think we're on eight. We're calling it nine. Oh, we're calling it nine.

So nine million. I'd probably like to round up. Well, that's extraordinary though, isn't it? And did most of this come from you posting these etiquette tips? In addition to your podcast, obviously, but the younger generation suddenly sort of craving this content. Yes. Well I mean and that's that's the beauty of social media is your video you can post it and I know no one sees it or everyone sees it or and you can't control who sees it. You

obviously have your followers but the nature of the algorithm is it is going to be distributed potentially far and wide and again there are there are many other people that do etiquette tips. In fact, for years, I had resisted doing them because my great friend and colleague Mike Amaya in America would do them and would do them so, but she wouldn't speak. She would do this thing where she would do something

and sort of wag her finger at the camera as if to go, no, then do it correctly and then put a thumb up. And I thought, it's so clever because if you are, you don't need to speak English to understand that. To understand that. And it was lots of people would copy her. And I said to her, well, I'm never going to copy you

because they were friends, but also it'll just look like I'm copying you like all these other people. And then it was Freddy and I met up and he said, well, you just, I think you, did you just say to me, just speak? You went just speak. Just forget the language thing. Yeah. Just speak. And of course, now with AI, I get translated into Punjabi and Spanish at the touch of a button. So I spoke... And how do you... Because you're not perfect. Occasionally you must have moments

where you think, oh, that was poor etiquette. Oh yes, yeah. How do you deal with that? Well, I've got a good therapist. Isn't therapy wonderful? Oh, it's very good, yes. No, I'm all for it. You know the etiquette of if you see your therapist

in public. Yes. You have to discuss that with them how they want to play it because true actually. Generally most decent therapists would wait for you to acknowledge them because it's very private. Yes and actually I know I know someone who did see their therapist in public and wasn't sure what to do but it was fine. It's always about common sense though a lot of this etiquette stuff isn't it? And I think it's about making other people feel, you know, it's little things like, I've got a friend who's South African, and he says to me, I get so confused by your British rules. And I remember, like I was talking about dinner, and I said, oh God, if I was taken to dinner,

you know when someone makes it very clear at the start, this is on me, this is my shout. I just, it's sort of been drilled into me that I would never order something ostentatiously lavish or expensive. Yes, well done, yeah. I'm not saying I'd, oh, I'll just have a suit, but I wouldn't order Wagu B for lobster. Yeah. Because I just think the optics. Unless your host does. Yeah, I think the optics are a bit tacky of that and I just wouldn't feel it's a bit Billy Bunter, fill my boots, you know. And I said, I don't have been, it's like, why? Why are you playing these weird games? But I think... So to some people, what I'm saying is these sort of British...

You and non-new stuff can be quite baffling. Yes. Yes, it can be. And again, we've made it harder for other nationalities because we're not as direct. Yeah. And we're quite subtle. We do a thing on social media.

We've done it a couple of times, but we've just filmed a few more, where we do what the British say versus what the British mean. Oh, yeah. And they seem to do quite well. Because, again, we say one thing. And if you, especially if you speak English as an individual, language you only hear what is said right by the way I should just

point out as we come to the end of High Park or the east side over there is the joy of life fountain which may or may not be a seminal plot point in my book just for you know so you can look at it we're getting the full backdrop well we're approaching the Dorchester hotel which is also in that's in your book as well it's set at the Dorchester stuff you've taken on a at all. Yes. Well William I have to say what a thoroughly charming man you are. Oh stop it well thank you very much. I aspire to be as charming as Raymond. What's your lasting impression of Raymond? Well I don't want it to be a last

here. I want it to be the first impression of Raymond. I think he'd be a nice friend for you. He would be a lovely friend. Is he on Borrow my doggy? He's not on Borrow my doggy, but to certain individuals I will make an exception and I think you're a very good. I think you're one of them. Well I'll have him after he's done his next poop. Because I think I feel spending time with you would rub off on him if you know what I mean. Yeah. In a good way. Well I'll send him to sleep. I'll just speak at him. I always think with dogs. It should be, I sort of think you kind of have a responsibility as and I'm not going to say owner. Super vet told me don't say owner. You're not, you don't own an animal, you're a guardian of its

soul while it's here. Oh. What do you think of that? It's very woo-woo, isn't it? I mean, I... As an owner, as a guardian of his soul, yes. I would say it's my responsibility, like you would if you have kids,

to raise them so that they're pleasant to be around. Absolutely. Oh, completely. Completely. And I'd much rather be around a pleasant dog than a dog that hasn't been trained or that is an inconvenience or is also a distraction. Because, look, dogs are gorgeous and lovely,

and this one is a... credit to you and to its entire species. But I would also say, like, we go to meet the friend. And so anything that's sort of overly distracting or is getting in the way of, no, no, I, you know, you get more from a human than you do a dog because you get speech. Speak for yourself. So. But I know what you mean.

Yeah. Like don't raise anything to be obnoxious. Yes. That's the rule. And when the guardian of the soul is constantly faffing over the dog and you, you know, I've actually got stuff to talk to you about and I can't because you are, your dog is so badly trained. Where this is actually quite stressful. But that happens with friends with kids sometimes.

Oh, completely, yes. What's the etiquette of that? I've got to stop. We're going to let you go, but just one last question, please. When you're calling a friend and they have kids and then it gets like, stop doing that, darling. I know I gave you that. I gave me the hummus, I told you earlier. It's always hummus.

And then it just goes on. And then they'll break off and have a 20 minute conversation with their child. While I'm sitting on the phone, have you experienced this? How do we handle it? Should I phone back at a more convenient time? That's what I would say. Oh, that's what I'm going to do. Or let me phone back at a more convenient time.

Or give me a call back when it's sociable. Do you know what I often say, and it gets me out? I'll let you go. Yes, I've taken up too much of your time. Make it about you, not about them. I'll let you go, you rude bastard. Well, that's the thing. In Britain, we are really telling people to go away, but in the nicest way possible, most of the time. I love it, and I completely adore you. I was so excited to meet you, and you're everything I hoped and more.

And I know that's not very British. It's a bit American, and I shouldn't be giving you a review face-to-face. I should be discreet and say, pleasure to meet you. But I think life is short, and I believe in telling people if they've given me... a happy heart for the morning. Oh bless you. This has been a lovely way to start the week. Lovely to do on the Monday. Can we reconvened same time next week? Just go on another one. I'm holding you to that. I'm going to turn up like some loser. And I wish you so much success with your wonderful book and your Maestro series and help I sexted my boss. And that's because your man, Freddie, is here and he looks so happy when I mention all the things

at the end. And I want to keep Freddy happy. Yeah, you don't want to get on the wrong side of him. I tried that once, didn't work. Could you say goodbye to Raymond? Goodbye to Raymond. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.