Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Zoe Lyons (Part One)

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Join Emily and Raymond on Brighton Beach with the brilliant comedian Zoe Lyons and her brand new puppy Zippo! Zippo is a Jack Russell with the most extraordinary eyes you’ve ever seen. Head over to Emily’s Instagram to see his beauty for yourself… prepare to fall in love! This is Zoe’s second time on the podcast - she appeared on the podcast during lockdown, during what we know understand to be a bit of a midlife crisis. We had a brilliant walk with her to catch up with how she’s doing now - and we find out how much light little Zippo has bought to her life. Listen to Emily and Raymond’s first walk with Zoe from March 2021 here!Follow @zoelyonscomedy on Instagram Zoe is currently on tour with her show Werewolf throughout April and May. You can find tickets and dates here at https://zoelyons.co.uk/ Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I was so uncomfortable in my skin as a kid. I think a lot of kids are, but I was bald and gay. I mean, it's like... It's like... This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I popped down to Brighton to take a stroll with fabulous comedian Zoe Lyons and her ridiculously adorable new little Jack Russell puppy, Zippo. So last time Zoe appeared on Walking the Dog,

and do go back and give that one a listen, by the way. She was accompanied by her good. gorgeous dog groucho, who she very sadly lost last year. So I was thrilled to hear that she'd recently welcomed Zippo into her life, and I couldn't wait to give him a cuddle. Whilst Ray's back was turned, obviously, Zoe is hugely successful, stand-up, who also regularly pops up on TV, on shows like QI and live at the Apollo.

But I think the TV appearance I was most impressed by was her stint on Celebrity SAS, Who Dare's Wins, alongside former health secretary Matt Hancock. So, as you may imagine, I had questions. We had the loveliest stroll along the Brighton Sea front chatting about her childhood, her passion for comedy, and bouncing back from what she calls her lockdown blokey midlife crisis,

and yes, it did involve buying a sports car, as well as her absolute obsession with the almost absurdly Disney cute Zippo. And if you don't believe me, do go to my Instagram at Emily Rebecca Dean and check him out for yourself. Raymond and I loved our walk with Zoe and Zippo and I really hope you do too. I also urge you to go and see Zoe on tour in her show Werewolf because she is genuinely hilarious. You can get your tickets at zoilions.co.com.uk.

I'm going to hand over now to the fabulous woman herself. Here's Zoe and Zippo and Rui. Raymond, meet Zippo. Oh. How do you think that went that meeting, Zoe? Well, I think, well, Ray's sort of half turned his back. So I think I'm going to say successful in that there wasn't a sort of tangle of leads and bearing of teeth. But I'm not feeling a huge amount of love from Ray.

If you were hoping for teeth, you've picked the wrong dog. Come on, Zoe. Let's make some sound effects noise on this. Pevelly Beach. I've got to be careful with him because he is a puppy and he does like to pick up pebbles. And we don't want an £800 vet bill straight away. So his eyes are something else. Oh, don't they? Why is he so extraordinarily beautiful?

I don't know. I think they call it because it's a Jack Russell. So Jack Russell's usually have brown noses and very brown eyes. But I think they call it a liver gene. when there's a slight sort of, not mutation, but a weird combination of genes, and then they have a liver-coloured nose and green eyes. I think Zipho's looking my nose. I know this sounds arrogant so, but I think Zipho likes me better than anyone else.

I think, yeah, I think you've made a new bestie. Do you think it's gone? Oh, it's little yawn. Yeah, you've made a new bestie. He's smelling, Ray. Having a little sniff. It's the smell of puppies. that is just, I can't stop sniffing him.

He smells like boiled rice and biscuit. It's just a puppy's armpit. That's the best place on earth, isn't it? Zoe, I'm so thrilled you've welcomed this beautiful puppy into your life. Oh, it's so, honestly. It's such a joy to be here. We should say I've come down to Brighton to see Zoe on beautiful. It's quite a reasonably sunny day.

I say beautiful, but it's a lovely sunny day. Yeah. And I wanted to meet the fabulous Zippo who, when did you get Zippo? We got him, oh, a month ago. Wow. Just over a month ago. So yes, the story behind Zippo is we lost our dog that we'd had for 18 years, Mr Groucho Barks. We lost him last September.

And we'd had him from a pup and he was, he was 18 when he passed away. And when he went, I mean, I was, I was, I was, heartbroken as you would be but I've never experienced my my partner my wife was so distraught yeah it was really tough and we sort of went right that's it we can't go through this pain again you know and we sort of made the decision there and they were like right really yeah we were like we can't do this again you know we'll just we'll just live without a dog and then what happened was various friends ended up rescuing dogs and they came to stay and um

Just the sound of the pitter-patter on the floor again. I was like, oh my God, we need to get a jog. And it's the energy they bring into the house. It's just something else, isn't it? And I have spent the last month laughing. You know, and it's been lovely. It's so true, isn't it? It's really lovely, yeah.

I sometimes, I don't know about you, but I sometimes... I'll just turn around and I'll see Ray pulling this really old expression. Yeah. Oh, for me, it looks very human. Yeah. Yeah. And I just burst out laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so funny, you know, we got him as a pup and we saw the other pups and people always say, pick the one that comes to you, you know, pick the bold one that comes to you and he actually wasn't that one at all. And I was like, I just sent something from him. I was like, I think he's got a really gentle, lovely nature. Let's take him. And I really wasn't sure. And then I looked down on him and he's got like he's got this sort. swirl on a bat on his back. Yes, I noticed that. And I thought, well, he even comes with a question mark, so he's not sure. So I was like it's meant to be. He's got a question mark

on his back. He doesn't know. I was like, fine, let's do it. And it's honestly, it's, it's changed, changed the energy in the house. It's changed my energy. Oh, so I'm so glad. It's so lovely. He's a really gentle, fun little thing and he's, He's smart. I mean, he's, you know, he's our baby, so he's the best, isn't he? You know, he's great, you know. Yeah. And he seems really sweet with Ray, actually.

Yeah, he's very sweet with other, he like, I mean, puppies love me other dogs, don't they at the minute? You know, but he's very good. He's very playful. I think what it goes to show is he's playful, but he's incredibly well-mannered. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think what it goes to show is.

that there really is whenever people say oh he's just very spirited he's very boisterous and i always think is it him or is it you yeah it's funny how and you're an example of how actually it's never the dog it's the owner it is it is funny how people like you can see that reflection of energy from owners and dogs can't you yeah yeah they always say oh well they're just like that yeah yeah then you think no well actually you're a bit it like maybe that's what it is yeah he's lovely oh he's not brilliant at walking on the lead at the moment no nor is Raymond and it's been eight years oh right we should say we're walking along is this the promenade the front on brighton yeah

brighton come to a cafe the bandstand and if you can hear this music it's a bit of a Greek tavernor theme makes you want tapas now oh it's Spanish is it Spanish is it Spanish It's called it Mediterranean. Oh yes, that's safer. It's Mediterranean. There we haven't offended anybody. It's the leave means leave cafe, I call it. Yeah, it's just here.

We can have a bit of fetter. Also, it's so lovely to be here. Last time, you have been on this podcast before. Yes. And we chatted, I think it was during lockdown, which is why we couldn't meet up. Yeah, it was. And you subsequently said to me,

when I said, would you come on again? Yeah. You said, oh, I'm glad I'm getting to come on it again because I worry last time I was going through a midlife crisis. Yes, yes. Why are you, looking back on that now, what's that a midlife crisis? Oh, gosh, yeah. I think a bit of a, I mean, I think the cliched expression is a midlife crisis. I think probably what it was was a, I don't know whether they call it the dawning of the soul or the dawning of the ego.

I mean, coupled with the fact that it was locked down and all of the craziness that was going on, there and lots of things seem to culminate and come to a head in that particular time. I always remember when lockdown happened and people tried to behave normally, you know, started baking bread and sort of trying to do normal things and lots of comedians were sort of going, I've got to get my material out there somehow. And in my mind, I just sort of went, this is an extraordinary, extraordinary life event to live through. I mean, utilise it for something extraordinary and I sort of had a sort of

A bit of an extraordinary time You split up with your... Yes, and you know I split up. I ended up living in... Where is it? That building there, the white building there, the tall white building there. We won't know exactly where it is

but it's a beautiful building. So I lived there for a bit. I lived there for 11 months in quite a bare flat. Was it? Yeah. It was perfect for a breakdown. It was quite bare, but it had a wonderful sea view.

So, I used to look out on this. I can imagine you standing at the windows, looking out onto the sea, like you're in an independent British film. Yeah, a very low budget independent British film. A film that didn't have enough budget for proper set or talent. Straight to streaming? Straight to streaming. Yeah.

I just want to know where we stand here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. straight to streaming definitely. And then very low numbers. But you did buy a car, didn't you? Yeah, what did you get? I bought an old Porsche boxster. I bought two of them.

I mean, how cliched is that, Emily? That is so cliched. I spent a year there, had a lot of therapy, felt a lot better. I mean, we're sort of joking about it, and I know that's what you do. Yes. Because you alchemise sorrow and melancholy and turn it into comedy. it kind of goes with the territory literally. But that must have been a difficult period as well.

Oh, very much so. Very much so, yeah. I think, I mean, you know, I've had ups and downs before in my life. I have bouts of depression. You know, doing this job, doing the job of the work I do, of course it comes with highs and lows and dopamine and then lack of and all of that. So I'm sort of used to not being on an even keel, if that makes sense. That's sort of common territory.

But I think what was alarming and a real eye-opener for me was just quite how low you can get. And in fact, at one point, I was scared by it. I was scared by it. because because you and I remember saying the words I don't think I'll ever be happy again and I genuinely felt it at the time because well because you know everything that was going on on the backdrop of the pandemic being separated having no work and then really I don't know I think it but you know what it just made me the thing about hitting the great thing about hitting rock bottom is you've got nowhere further to go. But also, if you hit rock button, very much like in a swimming pool,

like when you get to the end of a length, it gives you something to kick off. And you can bounce off it, but you've got to get there. I see that, Zoe. Yeah. I see that because you know how when you're in, and I've experienced really severe depression,

and by the way, I still, it's never quite gone. No. I still get low some days, and there'll be some days where I think, I don't want to get out of bed today because it just feels exhausting and I can't cope. Yeah.

And do you know what's weird is when you've reached the real pit, as you say, when I just managing, partly because Ray, if I can get up and feed him and get dressed and shower and get out and take him for a walk,

that feels like such a major achievement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I see what you're saying that actually, because I've got something to compare it to which was so much worse. Yeah, yeah. Presumably is that sort of a real thing?

you as well and it was also the first time in my life I reached out and got professional help did you yeah and I don't know why I had I'd always been a bit sniffy about it in a very immature way I think now when I think about it I always thought to myself you know I should be able to sort this out myself I can I could sort myself out I probably you know in that sort of arrogant way I probably know more about my own psychology than anybody I don't need help and it was fascinating just asking for help and getting that help and and then it's like peeling an onion like you know the layers just come

away and you're like oh wow I used to try and do a bit of material about two rhinoceros is having a domestic argument and the female rhinoceros shouting at the male rhinoceros it's not about the spoon Nigel because it's never about the spoon or it's never about the fact there's no parking spaces or it's never about the fact, you know, you've put this thing in the wrong place. There's something much deeper that's affecting all of our behaviours. And just for the first time, I was able to really look, analyze, and think about the way I was behaving, think about the relationships I was having, think about the way I was

behaving in those relationships. And, yeah, it's really interesting. And actually, it's not a self-indulgence. it's a real key to understanding yourself. And trying to be, trying just to be. Ooh, Zippo, do not bite through that. This will not be good for production. Zippo, are you biting?

He's got a little wire in his mouth. Oh, what's this? No, let's not do that. Let's really not do that. He's got. Right, I'm going to put you down. Hey, got it. Yes.

I brought some treats for you. Oh, did you see you're a much better? a dog mother than I am because I forgot the treats. Do you want a treat? Yeah. Zippo. I need like one too. These are Great British Bakes.

Carrot cake treat. Carrot cake treat. That felt quite brightened. Oh, that's very brighton. Yeah. Do you want a treat Zippo? These are quite good treats. Thank you, Auntie Emily.

Oh yes. Well, you can't have one. They're massive, aren't there? aren't they? It's very looking sad. Sorry, darling, you can't have one of these. Why can't he have one? Oh, he's not, yeah, no, he's just got,

he's got major issues with his teeth. Oh no. So I can only have, he's soft food only these days. So it makes me obviously sad to hear that you went through that. But also, I think the fact that you embrace therapy, you know, it's interesting. Already I sense a real difference in you. Yeah. Post therapy.

Yeah. Makes sense that the fact that you have volunteered all this information. Yeah. I don't know if you would have before. No, I was actually when in looking back in hindsight

I was quite hard and I was hard on myself and I expected other people to cope because I was having to cope. Do you know what I mean? And my wife says this. She says, you are so much more emotional and you're so much more open these days

and in doing that it's so much you know I would never have described you as hard but you know it's um I think you probably feared being judged more maybe yeah do you think yeah and also I think just doing the job

I've done for the last 20 years you know as a stand-up comedian you know constantly being told you know when I started women aren't funny is it how I'll being a woman in comedy is it you know why aren't women funny it was constantly it was all it was in the press anything in the newspaper you know it was i don't mean the press about me i mean in general you'd

read articles about it are women funny you think what bollocks is this what planet are people living on how could we be saying that half of the population hasn't got the uh understanding and means to generate and understand humour what a load of tosh so i i am I never entertained it and I never let myself feel any of it. So I just, I sort of had to become a bit of a hard knot, if that makes sense. Do you want to walk on here? Is it better for the puppies? He might need a little, we'll give you some.

He might need a little deposit, my darling. After his big treat. We talked a lot on this podcast about your childhood and how you ended up getting into comedy. Yes. So I won't go into that too much just because go back and listen to that. They'll listen to that. But I'm interested. Just it's interesting, you've been talking about how you've been doing therapy recently.

Yes. And I think I'm just interested to know, because I found my iodide therapy, a lot of stuff came up about my childhood that I possibly hadn't realized at the time. Just about me as a person. It's a discovery process, isn't it? Oh yeah. That's what I mean, the onion, the sort of human onion you become, peeling it away. Well, looking back on that now, how do you perceive yourself as a kid in terms of what sort of kid do you think you were now? How do you feel about yourself as a kid now?

I've probably got more compassion for that person. We moved a lot when I was a kid. I had a very tricky relationship with my stepfather who's no longer with us. And he relocated you to Glasgow, didn't he? Yes. Because you were sort of Ireland, sorry. Sorry, Glasgow. So never really had roots anywhere.

I think that's why I feel so at home here. Because Brighton, it's the home that everybody, it's like it's a very welcoming city. And I feel this is my home now. This is my, yeah, where I'm considered home. Crucially, I'm going to throw in another theory here. Go on then. permanently surrounded by coastline.

Yeah. So not that sense of being trapped. Oh, God, yes. There's a sense of not being shackled by permanence in a seaside town. Easy escape route. That's really, really true. I grew up, because when we lived in Ireland, we had a view of the sea from our front window. And I felt like that coming here, it's like, oh, God, yeah, the sea.

My idea of absolute hell would be to live in the Midlands. No disrespect to the people of the Midlands. Thanks, Skinner, if you're listening to this. I'm so sorry. I do apologise and there are beautiful parts of the countryside around there. Right. To be as far away from the sea as you can possibly be on this island would be an absolute nightmare for me.

Yeah, I wouldn't be able to do that. But no, I have, looking back to that kid, I've got much more compassion for them. Yeah. And I have a greater understanding of the behaviours that came out of that period of time. Yeah. We should say in case anyone is being lazy and hasn't skipped back yet. Your mum was a nurse and your dad, he was a chemical engineer. Yes, yeah.

So mum did various things. She was an auxiliary nurse for a while. She also worked secretary, secretarial work, that sort of thing. So she did various jobs. My dad, yeah, chemical engineer, mostly with oil companies. Again, looking back, can you see why you were drawn to comedy? Because as you've told me in the past, you weren't. the sort of class clown,

whoever everyone would say, oh, Zoe's going to be a stand-up. Yeah. That wasn't you at all, was it? No. No. I think because of the environment I grew up in with my stepfather, I think

humor was such a diffusing power. And I realized I was, I could make adults laugh. That's very, that's very, that's very empowering you know that's really empowering and I grew up in a household where oh hello another little terrier oh you're gorgeous hello my love do you want to

say hello to Raymond this one is three and a half months yeah yeah three and a half months old yeah Raymond say hello what's your one called Milo's gorgeous oh you're a proper little terrier are you gorgeous He's fantastic. Bye-bye. Do you know what? I love this city. People are just so dog-mad, aren't there?

It's great. Well, that was your takeaway from that. Mine was, that was a low point for Ray. Oh, great. Because it's the first time someone has asked about the younger model. Oh, no. I'm so sorry, Ray. Oh, that hurts, doesn't it?

I mean, Ray is so used to being. I tell you what's happened, though. Oh, he's even giving me a little. Can I tell you what's happened? and bombshell has entered the Love Island villa. Zippo is the Love Island bombshell. Oh, I'm so sorry, Ray. I can really empathise and understand how that feels.

You know what's going to happen to him now? He's going to be buying a Porsche box there. He's going to get a lot of work done. And he's going to be buying a flat overlooking the sea. You'll be getting fillers down. Next time I see you, Ray, you'll have big lips and veneers. Yeah. I'd love to give him veneers.

Oh my God, and that's amazing? Well, you were saying he's got dodgy teeth. Maybe veneers is the way to go. Just to see what people's reaction was. Yeah, just when he smiles, like massive... Would people mention it, Zoe? Yeah. Or they say, oh, your dog's got unusual teeth.

Probably not. Come on, Ray. So, yeah, that's interesting you were saying that you think maybe the interest, the fact that you were drawn towards comedy. Yeah. Was... Because it always is with comics.

isn't it? If you search hard enough, the humour will have always been there for, it would have been honed for a reason that was helpful to you in some way. Yes. It's never random, I don't know. No, I think you're right. I think, well, my therapist said it to me. My, my, uh, my, uh, she was like, it's your, I was so lucky and I found such, such a good therapist for me. She never stopped me being funny or joking in sessions. You know, sometimes I think people get a bit snippy about that like why do you feel you need to make a joke about that and I remember saying to her when I'd finished when we finished and I was rewilded I said thank you for never doing that and she said why on earth would I do that so that is

your coping mechanism that is how you that is your mode of communication so I was very grateful for that sensitivity yeah and I think I think because I knew I could make adults laugh I grew up in an environment where there was no I was desperate for communication and there was none things when we talked about. Why was there no communication? Well I'd probably say emotional immaturity from parents

that you it's odd when you are as a child maybe more emotionally sensitive and intelligent than your caregivers and require communication and it's not coming and require being able to talk about things and it doesn't happen so you find

mode of you find that language and that language for me was making other adults engaged me and that's like I made them laugh. How old is Ray? He's eight. He's looking great though, isn't he? Oh, he's not, it's weird. I mean it's like, it's so interesting what you were saying before about losing groucho because I honestly, I don't know about you but I'm, I wake up every day kind of like

fearing it. Yeah, I know, yeah. And then it happens, because we all know it's going to happen, that's one of the inconvenient truths that we have to accept about getting a dog, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. The chances are we will outlive them. Great love and great loss. But you know what, even though you go through that pain,

I bet you wouldn't have traded that for the world, would you? Oh, no, never. No. No. You know, it's life, isn't it? It's life. It's dark and shade. It's life. And I feel the same about having my, you know, experience of being in that flat and having a separation and all going through all of those. If you said to me now, you can press a button and that will never happen, I wouldn't choose that.

I would choose to go through that because of the benefits of it on the other side. Because what I find interesting about you, we've spoken about this before, is that I feel performing when you did decide, or maybe performing something I can do, because we should say you did. Sociology degree, you did. Psychology. Psychology. Yeah. Psychology. Yeah.

Psychology. Yeah. And I like that, you know, you always talk about how, oh yeah, I just chose it because there were daffodils on the prospectus and it looked quite nice and the buildings look quite nice. Yeah. There's this sense of you, I feel, like you didn't, you weren't, okay, well, look out, watch out for me. You're like, yeah, maybe I'll do that. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I tell you why I told you. why I chose a psychologist. I don't know whether I said this year last time, but at the university, you could choose whether you wanted it to be a BA or a BSC. Yeah, so I thought, well, that course doesn't even know what it is, so it's perfect for me. Yeah. That's why I thought, if it doesn't even know what it is, fine. Yeah. And then when you eventually did decide to try performing, or that you felt it was something you wanted to do, presumably because you'd got a taste for it at university, I guess. It was acting. Yeah. That you chose. Yeah. Why do you do you think so you ended up becoming a comic instead of an actor oh very simple i realized uh i

went and did two years at drama school and then sort of the graduation where the agents come around and sort of look at you a bit like a sort of it's a bit like a cattle market really they sort of yeah have a look at the teeth somebody said one of them said my neck was too long no she said there was an agent that came around to sort of give us advice about things and i think asking a picture about photos or something and she went well the thing about you is you've got quite a long neck so I'd wear something that covers a bit of that and I was like oh my god really wow who are these people um I don't have a long neck anyway I never looked at myself and thought very necky um but I real I think it was encounters with people like that and I thought oh god I don't

be reliant on these idiots for work and I knew like one girl in our year got a agent and that was it and I was like is all this been for nothing then if this is what it's going to be and acting is so hard it's so you know because you're so reliant on somebody saying your face in this part whatever I thought I'd need to have more control over what I'm doing I thought if I could write some stuff and perform it I might be able to couple together a career that's genuinely what I thought and I thought yeah because I was always playing the comedy parts anyway at drama school I was always the shuffling maid

So that was it. I thought, well, I just haven't got the brain that would fit into a corporate environment. I thought, I can't leave this and then go into something else, like a proper job. I just don't. I don't have the attention span to sit through a meeting. I just don't. I'm not made for it. I'm not suited for it.

I need to find something that I'm suited for. And I think comedy was that. That sort of high intensity, 20 minutes on the stage. anxiety, you know, like high intensity focus concentration. Because you know when people say, oh, it's such a whole job, isn't it? I really couldn't do it. And I think it's fine. I couldn't be a teacher.

I couldn't be a nurse. I couldn't work in banking. I couldn't do any of those things. I wouldn't be allowed to. Yeah. So I think if you listen, if you are fortunate enough to at some point, been able to listen to yourself and your own sort of rhythms, then you end up in the job.

you're meant to be in. You're right. There probably are loads of people going, I mean, I did it for years, though. You know, I forced myself to try and work in an office when I worked in magazines. It was just ridiculous. It just never worked. No. And it was like, it was only now I realise I feel really sorry for those people because they'd be like, people would put earclugs in and leave the office I was in and things because.

And it was, and it took me years to work out. Oh, is that because of me? What, were you talking to? Well, I just didn't shut up. get distracted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I wasn't really, it just wasn't right for me

to be in that kind of environment. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't that I was in any way better than that environment. It was just completely the wrong space. Same as what you were saying. Yeah. But you were working, you did waitressing

and you did your fair share, TGR Fridays. Yeah, I did with TGR Fridays. Love that for you. Hardest job I ever did, you know that, Emily. It was hard. I still have anxiety dreams about it. I still have dreams where my bar is absolutely packed. I haven't worked there for

25, 30 years. I've got a packed bar Friday night and somebody smashes glass into the ice bin so I can't serve any of these people. The bar's like

15 deep with people all wanting cocktail and that's a recurring dream I still have. But do you think because I genuinely and I've only really realised this the older I've got that I genuinely think that should be the equivalent of national service that everyone should do one job in the service industry.

I think you're absolutely right. I think I've even said, I think I've said exactly the same thing. I think you're absolutely right because it's such an important industry. It usually forms a backbone of most people, of most countries, you know, GDP. And yet there's so little understanding of how hard that job can be, how tricky it can be. And how real people can be. Well, that's what I mean is that it's a crash course in empathy. You know, because you can't, you think about those people.

I have it. Even when I think of jobs I did when I worked at the gap, as a result of that, I can't ever bring myself to get impatient with sales assistants in clothes shops, for example, because I've been there. And I know what it's like. And I think, well, if you've never been there, you don't know. I get why you'd lose your temper. This bizarre, higher-arer.

So you didn't become a stand-up until you were 30. 30. Which is quite relatively late. Yeah. Yeah. But once, I feel like it's something that once you did, you felt. Oh, that was it after the first gig. Yeah.

I got in the taxi on the way home. Cindy was with me and I went, this is what I do now. And I said, this is what I do now. And that's what I did. Yeah. And I still reached us for a bit, but the And then my first agent used to run a lot of gigs all around the country. Some of them, infamous.

But it meant, I mean, some of them were awful gigs, but there were gigs. And I was getting, you know, 30, 40, 50 quid cash for them. And I thought, oh, if I do loads of them, I can just about survive. And that's why I did. And one day, I remember going into my wagering job. He phoned me, the agent phoned me, gave me loads of gigs. and I went, right, I'm going to leap. And I just had to go into the office.

I went, I'm resigning from a waitressing job. The world of service is going to have to deal without me. I was an appalling waitress as well. I'm very cack-handed. I think you first came on my radar when you won the funny women. Oh, yes, yeah. Which would have been like 2004, maybe? Yes, yeah, well, I remember.

I think it was 2004, 2003, something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I feel like you always delivered, which is why I think you kept getting rebooked. Yeah. You know, because I know, Frank Skinner, who we both love and work with often. He always has this thing where he says, sometimes people get offered those slots on what I lie to you

or eight out of ten cats or more the week or whatever, like at the Apollo. And you sort of watch them and you think, I think you have that shot, but it is a bit Eminem, you only get one shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you don't 100% deliver, you maybe won't get other stuff. Yeah.

Because once you get one of those gigs, things should start rolling for you. Yes. And I feel they did for you. Yes, yes. It can be hard for women on those shows to feel, you know, you've got... Yeah. It's almost like that sense of, I've got a right to speak here. Do you know what I mean?

Particularly mock the week when that was on. Did you find that tough, sir? Oh, God, yes. And again, I think that was sort of during the period where I was very hard with myself and hard with people around me and just didn't sort of acknowledge that, actually, this is really hard, you know, yeah. because I was A woman and B, I was slightly older when I started, so I was older still when I was getting these jobs.

So I'm not part of the pack. You know, and occasionally doing those jobs, you'd hear all the boys in one dressing room, sharing jokes or churning stuff out on each other, but you're in another dressing room on your own. Yeah, so. I think I would cry if I heard that. No, yeah, and I never cried,

so that's why I think eventually I snapped. Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah. Because that, yeah. I'm not saying they were being intentionally mean. No, no, they were just doing their thing. But that does feel like you're being ostracized because of your gender a bit. Yeah. And probably not, you know, it's just they're in their gang and I'm not in that gang.

Why? Well, I guess because I was a woman, because I was older and all of those things. And it's, you know, I, but I think. Yeah, I've never really felt part of any. pack. But that's why when men do the necessary work, you've really noticed. Yes. I think when men, and, you know, I would say most men I know do do the work where they say,

well, you're saying how something feels as a woman and they don't say, but don't you think me? Yeah, yeah. No, no, just accept. Just listen. Yeah. This is what it's like for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. You're right. And when you do encounter those people, it's quite interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Look at this, so what's going on here? There's some sort of filmmaking going on with... And it seems to involve a teddy bear being washed up on the beach. Oh. I mean, do they know?

I don't know. I've got TV Zoe Lyons here with the cutest puppy in Christendom. I tell you, it's a sad state of affairs when a teddy bear's getting more work than you are at the moment, is it? What's just that? A white teddy bear? It's probably a male teddy bear, isn't it? I mean, you're set by a male teddy bear. bloody typical. Do you know what I've noticed? That teddy bear's got into a corner with all the

crew laughing and we're not involved. We're not invited. But now I can see how looking back on stuff like that, like Mock the Week, you have to really have superhuman levels of confidence, don't you? Yeah, or fake it. Is that what you did? I think that's what I was doing, yeah, because I'm not, I'm not very confident. I'm not. People always assume I am because of what I do but I'm not and I think that's what I've been grown to understand about myself. Right. You know, again, people just, yeah, people just assume you're incredibly confident because you are standing on a stage and telling jokes and actually when I worked how, how and why I was doing it, you know, going back to the sort of that communicating, having, trying to communicate

something, that doesn't necessarily come with a huge amount of confidence. I'm not very confrontational. don't I am I suppose you put me into the sort of people please a category of personality types and again that comes back to sort of trying to make everything all right so so I feel like a lot of my career has run counter to actually how I feel if that makes any sense you're perceived as being ballsy you're perceived as sort of breaking through you're perceived as sort of you know having this confidence but inside it's not a, it's different. It feels very different.

And I think, yeah, it's, I'm glad to have that realization, if that makes sense. And I don't, I'm kinder to myself. I'm sort of more gentle with myself. Ooh, there is a big helicopter. Hello, heli. It looks golden. It must be done on front. But I do think that's positive because I think if you don't have that realization,

yeah. It's important to sort of say, well, look, I'm having. to mask here in order to get through. Yeah. I think it's, and sometimes you accept, I'm going to have to still do this. Yeah. But as long as I know I'm masking, otherwise what happens is, I think there can be a brittleness that creeps through you a bit like ivy and you, and it's hard to separate

the real you from the ivy, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the thing is, once you do start talking about these things, and once you start being open and honest. Look at that big boys, though. Oh, it's a big, big doggy. That's a big, big lab. Luke's quite a big lab, isn't it?

Yeah, it's quite a big lab. I met a woman down here yesterday, day before, with two Irish wolfhounds. Because you had the biggest Irish wolf found in an island. He was the second biggest dog in Ireland. Oh, piss up. I don't even want to do this. Should we go home, Ray? He was the second biggest dog in Ireland. Isn't that a weird achievement to have?

I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.