War With A Mate - Episode 54: Tomorrow Never Comes

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

The festive season is in full flow! Which for some reason means James has become dejected in his feelings towards the game. Andy pushes the momentum forward this week, with a history segment that has a Batman cameo and a quintessentially petty Common Ground helps round off the calm before the storm, with some very important Land Movement approaching.

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Because we have your number. Hello, this is War With A Mate with me, James. Me, Andy. The two hosts of War With A Mate. do you think we should do like a little um sing song at the start of each episode i'm so strongly against that we could do a an acapella thing bit of a motown thing maybe no oh i was waiting for you to harmonize with me why would you ever expect that i thought we we've maybe rehearsed it at a time that i don't remember we're not that kind of friends ah i see

we're just friends for the podcast no we're not barbershop friends well if we're not barbershop friends andy what are we why don't you introduce the premise of the podcast to any newcomers well we're two friends playing uh spi's campaign for north africa the possibly unfinished behemoth uh and we're going to be playing every week and uh giving you guys an update on how we're doing that's it currently doing uh we're currently about halfway through a six scenario uh six turn scenario for us to get used to the game and then we'll be jumping on to the 111 turn scenario when we're done and do you feel like we've got used to the game yet andy again there's not much more that can be said about this part is there i feel like we've already said all this you said

the premise yeah you know what i found andy yeah i'm getting to the point in this where it feels like it's the same fucking thing every week well it's better than we're gonna start soon it is but not for long soon it's that's gonna be that's gonna be something i miss oh okay i feel like as the yeah we do different stuff every time is it just that bit because that is gonna be the same every time i think it's that it feels like there's there's no end in sight is there really i wax and wane this is an interesting level we've entered a new part of your psychological breakdown which is why we're doing this so i i'm i'm starting to worry okay you weren't you were fine during the game session i know i think there's just something now when i'm thinking about

about what we're doing this is very raw just off the dome stuff this is just going to go on forever like 8 to 10 years no 8 to 10 years is not the realistic time scale

we're looking at here it's much much longer than that maybe maybe not we'll see that's sort of why we're doing this I said do you remember my new years resolution last year Andy no it was to not get angry at the game anymore okay that's well you're nearly there you nearly did it

i'm nearly there i'm not angry at the game yet good but it's two or three weeks the year is nearly done and i can feel myself after a year of playing this thing starting to lose an aspect of patience with it i'm still enjoying the gameplay okay good i'm still finding fun moments i'm enjoying the air combat which we did today we resolved some of that that was good i enjoyed that satisfaction the to and fro of using our air force to really stick it to the other guy i enjoy watching the land movement get planned out and figure out where it is that the units are going to go and what kind of crazy tactics i can try to win over this conflict okay so that's most of the game you're enjoying i enjoy the parts of the game the game as a whole i don't enjoy made of

parts you enjoy no it's it's more than the sum of its parts well that's a nice thing to say and the sum of its parts are fine to play enjoyable even what it becomes when you put it all together is something that we never should have started but we have we have we're locked in we are locked in it this is fun i know i know the gameplay doubt in your eyes it's fun i'm just i'm just worried andy i'm worried that i'm going to start to become resentful of this game and it's not to say i won't see this through i will see this through if it kills me okay yeah because we saw this coming we knew there were going to be ups and downs not just in terms of gameplay but it's just been a while that i haven't had the downs so they've sort of just

come and hit you sort of yeah okay i think you know over the the last couple months when i've been really hyped about how quick we're going to finish the game yeah i think me realizing that 10 years isn't quick it's just starting to come around now and i also don't think it's 10 years okay um you should have realized 10 years is a long time i know you should have known that i know i know but instead we we have this now this is me this is me telling you it's far too long we don't we don't deserve this surely deserve what we're not right for this that's part of why we're doing i feel like i'm having to explain the premise of the show to you i feel like it's starting to dawn on me what we were doing though for a while it was it was abstract okay but now

that i can look back at comfortably a year and and say that that's what this year has been i'm realizing what that year has consisted of it's been a good year it it's been it's had fun moments it definitely has it's it's had moments of of slog and confusion and so much bookkeeping so much bookkeeping Andy you do realise how much time we spend on these fucking spreadsheets yeah I've spent more time

on them than you I know and isn't that frustrating why I'm on an upswing no we can't pendulum this I need to bring you down here with me tough I'm up here

no get down it was a good one today why is it dawned on you today i don't i think it's i think that's why is it because it's the end of the year or because this was just fine i don't know what it was okay it was it was when i turned on the microphone today that something's changed oh so literally just just now okay this is the good part this is the fun part this this is the part there's no bookkeeping yeah there's no bookkeeping for this part this is this is the easy part but i mean if i'm using this as an accountability tool which is what we started off the podcast

as this is me this is me doing that again i need this to anchor me because this is this is becoming a long project andy it's not becoming a long project it just is a long project that's that's what's bothering me so so today what did we cover it was op stage two of turn three we resolved the air stuff we did we got we got through the air combat had a big old fight you so we started off i i bombed some of your stuff yeah we started with a fight over the fourth indian yes i that was the first one yeah just grabbing your notebook yeah i bombed the the fourth first and i did extremely badly on shooting stuff down yes you you did you you took out some of them technically um i'll not rag on

you too hard but you shot down three planes this looks like yeah you shot down three one of them actually got back to base and one of the pilots did anyway down by uh baxter yes so you you did you did maybe that's what this is so baxter um edwin edwin or edward edward baxter edward baxter a pilot a pilot from very early in the scenario one of andy's pilots reared his ugly head again and he shot down one of my planes albeit not a great one it was my C307s 3097s

something to that effect they're my worst planes in terms of bombing they have two tac air usually they have nine manoeuvrability they only had three tac air because of the numbers that bolstered them and they have four bombs apiece

that's ridiculous they're terrible, they're piss poor if anything i'm glad he shot down one of those and not something worthwhile because that's what baxter does he goes for the vulnerable the pilot that he killed last time was very ill polio it's a mercy killer yeah no it's not no it's not polio was treatable i'm not actually sure if that's true i think it may have been becoming treatable yeah i don't know that it is actually treatable in this period of time but either way uh baxter is an opportunist and a scoundrel yeah he's a fighter race. And the fact that he got away with it,

no, he's not an ace. He's a pilot. He's a plucky guy with a chip on his shoulder. Sort of Han Solo type. No, no. We already had a conversation about Han Solo earlier today. And we came to the conclusion that he's a

scumbag. For anyone who isn't aware, the original cut of Star Wars is being released fairly soon. It's early December 2025. And it's getting released again soon in cinemas. And Han Solo shot first. Not Greedo.

Han shot first. Okay. I just need that to be put on the mic. That needs to be put out there. He's a cool pragmatist. He's not a cool pragmatist. He's a self-righteous bad man. Well, either way, he shot down...

Well, Greedo and my version of him shot down one of your planes. He did, and I'm not going to forgive him. Nor you, by proxy. On the back of that, however, I did then carry out my bombing run. And it was successful Okay I managed to pin a couple of your guys I think you did one over the fourth

I pinned one on the fourth And then I Moved on to my next target The 16th I want to say 16th Infantry Battalion Brigade Brigade I pinned two there

Pinned two of those guys Happy with that I then moved on to the New Zealand 2nd New Zealand Division Yep, they're a bit further back from the front Just on that main road And I pinned one of them And then I went against

The You'll have to help me with this one, the small ones The RNF Or, was it the RNF? RTR The Royal Tank Regiment No, that wasn't Mercer Matruh, there was another one that I got Oh, King's Own Rifle Yes

I think King's Own Rifle Company Yes, I managed to Get some of them, I believe uh yes you pinned all of them because there was just one group there that's right and then i went for mercer matru and there i attempted to pin a piece of armor and since i only got one two point worth one battalion worth rather it did not pin anyone yeah because my flak did pretty good work there i think destroyed was it three planes yes they drove another one away and they were already pretty bad in their numbers i think they were only dropping 88 bombs and you shaved them down

to 60 odd so it brought it down to the point where i could only max out at one and that is what i got i got one and that was not enough to pin armor yeah armor and guns cost two pins and your buddy here you only got one pin so that was a damn shame is what it is but we we live and learn We do, and then I did a Oh god, we really didn't get very much today And then I did the I did my bombing Resolved that

One of them on your I just think of them The southernmost one of your wall The Serene 63rd Serene, I want to say Yeah, I got three on them And I split them, I did one gun And one infantry

Yes, you did, which isn't great, that's my wall I need them to move across so you've you know pinned them that's not great for me however i have been looking at how i can move around that it's not the end of the world it's just a bit of a hiccup in the world what the them being pinned yes those particular parts of the division well division uh i don't know if it is actually a division i don't think it is it's five stacking points on the tile so i think it's it's one of the missing marker ones it's either a missing marker one or

it's a division in game terms but not a division in name yes either way it's missing the headquarter unit stripe yes which a few of my units are so yes they took a pretty heavy hit

in being pinned with a gun and an infantry out of nine infantry three guns and one armour that's what you went for I can work around that I do still have a bit of a plan for this war moving further east, which is good for me. Bad for you. That's where you're heading, so

I'm going east. Mercer Matruh is the destination on the map. That's what I've popped into my Google Maps. I've selected the directions section of the maps. I've then selected public transport and then I've selected a specific route, and it's this route, Andy.

This is the one I'm on. And it says it's delayed, and I believe that it is, but it doesn't say cancelled. So I'll wait around at this stop for a while And eventually I will hop on And I will get to my destination You sly, sly dog I will get to my destination

Actually, you'll try However, following that, you carried out another bombing run I did The Saharans are still hanging out Just above the Qatar depression Yes, my Saharan detachment is still stuck And I, yeah I just wanted to bomb them and sort of

Keep them in place So you strafed one of my heavy trucks and then you bombed them and pinned was it just two infantry? Yes. Yes, you pinned two infantry. Yes, you did. I remember specifically one of the ones that you pinned.

You pinned a good one. I'll tell you now, you pinned one of the better units. Love to hear it. Not pleased about that, but I can't do anything about it now. Or can I? I can't, is the answer. But it's nice to leave a bit

of ambiguity in the air. In a world of certainties, Andy, I am an ambiguity. And you are an abstract concept. I'll take it. It's not a compliment. That's pretty cool. No, no, no, no.

That's actually the least cool thing you could be. Certainity. You want to be empirical fact. That's what you want to be. You want to be unshakable truth. You do not want to be interpretable. I'm fine being an interpret. Then you're not art.

you are not art I figured it's true I would be art and you would no you're right yeah I guess I guess what I'm saying is stop pinning the Saharan detachment you fucker I guess what I'm saying is no

yeah I thought that might be where we meet in the middle bit of an impasse there because no well you can't blame a guy for trying Can't blame him for trying Well there we go I will blame you heavily if you succeed

Well get out the blame cannons Get out the blame throwers I'm just trying to think of any more guys That have flame throwers I hope not Cole Phelps did In L.A. Noire When he was in World War 2

Or at least one of the guys in his squad had a flamethrower that seems like the worst job having a flamethrower in the wall yeah you reckon well you've just got big cans of petrol on your back i don't know how long they last or how often they just the fire went up the tube and killed you but it feels like it wasn't zero percent of the time no it would have happened on occasion i feel like it must have a mechanism inside it's also kind of a horrible thing like i know war is horrible but flame throwing someone feels like that's a particular weight on you flamethrowers surely were designed to be environmental damage and not just for man-on-man combat you kind of

hope one one reason but like what are you using that for and like landscaping so that the first reason i'll get on to is the the nicer of the reasons which is tactically that doesn't really make much sense because a flamethrower is short range compared to like a rifle or a machine gun or even a handgun realistically so if you're coming in with a flamethrower you're a bigger target as well you're gonna get popped off i think it's for like sweeping trenches or just you fire into a bunker and kook everyone well that kind of takes me on to the second point the the bad point which is that how dare you that's so bad that's evil of all the ways to kill people being cucked is

at that point you're one degree away from being food and being food is one of the worst things you can be. Like I You're not wrong. I deeply fear being eaten by like a bear or something. What was that? You just flashed me a cheeky

smile. You got that cannibal in you man. You got that dog in you. You got that wendigo in me. You do have that wendigo in you. Yeah, being eaten would be bad, I guess You guess? Even being eaten alive, yes, that's very bad

But if someone shoots me in the head And then feeds me to pigs, I don't care Yeah, sorry Being eaten alive is far worse Than being eaten dead Yeah You can hold me to that I'll hold you to it

Yeah We'll do a Mythbusters type thing episode one we'll have someone eat part of your arm when you're alive episode two i'll kill you and then we have someone eat the rest of you and then we use a ouija board to find out your verdict a flawless science well it's got a little bit of mysticism in there but that's important as well they've never myth busted magic they haven't and i don't think they'd have a very good job doing it couldn't do it speaking of couldn't do it we couldn't do much more than the airfield today we we did all of the uh the air combat we resolved that i'm pinned you're pinned everyone's pinned

and we have a very important land movement coming up one that will turn the tide of this whole scenario yeah i sort of planned my moves for an hour and then we were full don't have time to actually do them so but yeah it's a very important movement stage so didn't want to rush that one Yeah, I waxed a little bit about what I could possibly do with my land movement, and the issue, of course, is I don't know what you're doing yet, so I can only react accurately once you've moved. You did say you had a plan that would basically fuck up the scenario for both of us, which I'm very curious about. I have a plan that really turns this scenario into a bit of a time trial kind of situation where both of us are put at odds

against sort of the game itself to accomplish an objective. It removes a lot of the usual gameplay that we'd expect. Don't do it then. And that's not necessarily a fun thing and it's not necessarily a stupid move. it's just a very very risky gambit it's also i think far too risky for me to try it the only

reason that i was really struggling to not do it is because i only would get to do this now if i don't do this now i will not do this in the main scenario in the main game right because it because it's so risky that it would ruin the game for me it's a move that for three turns for the practice scenario is risky with a chance of meatballs but if i do that in the main game i think at any point realistically i'll probably lose interesting you say what it is if you're not going to do it or i don't know that i'm not going to do it okay okay i'm not 100 certain that it won't manifest right because again there's a chance that i win by doing it okay so we'll we'll leave that there we'll see if you do it or not it's just a bit

silly it feels like from what you said i'll recognize it when you do it you will because you'll sort of look at me in i guess a com it'll be a compounding sense of anguish and anger you'll you'll be in the context of the game devastated by what i've done and in the meta sense of outside the game you'll be really annoyed at me for what i've done to our playthrough of the scenario oh cool interesting you're definitely gonna do it i don't know that i am but i might so watch this space yeah stay keep your eyes peeled but all in all andy with the air stuff done and a huge land section coming up possibly the biggest land section ever to rack this game table so far how are you feeling about the game i'm not hitting bits of despair like you

okay i mean that is how i'm feeling don't buzz that well you gotta you got one negative buzzer you only get two more of those and then you're out oh okay uh i'm kind of pessimistic about the game state but still enjoying the game so you think you might lose yes okay that turns it around for me a little bit oh okay i guess whatever gets you back on board if i'm gonna win then you know but yeah you've got your you've got your divisions both supplied nicely it seems and in like big blocks yeah um so i sort of have to take them all out i've got the wall as they've been coined and then there's the three divisions uh at fort magdalena or well a bit east of it now at the old supply dump yes they're all hanging around there ready to move in whichever area they want

to and then i also have a smattering of a sort of broken force along the border made up of two to three divisions oh just slightly further back next to bardia um yes uh down down the sort of strip south of bardia i've got the it's not the black shirts i think i've got one of the libyan divisions i've got the 62nd mamara i think it might be and i think there's one more but i don't know if i've repositioned them bit with the slope ends and sort of opens up a bit yes that's it just off the coast yes so that little sort of pocket between essentially between bardia and madalena yeah that little wall there so i've got that scattered down the border as well as a an extra sort of fallback safety net if you manage to somehow punch through the wall or if you manage to

sweep south and try and get through the madelaine a lot yeah it's all reserve force to one or the other depending where you need them yeah so i feel like i've got a good defensive point and if i continue to move this force east which has been my plan now for the last two three op stages this was to be fair a risky move that i was very hesitant to go for the whole push hard east with everything but i've kind of taken that with a pinch of salt and then moved it yeah i mean because of the six turns you sort of have to be aggressive anyway yeah there's there's always going to be a need for that but i think i was so scared of doing it now that i have done it it doesn't feel as terrifying as it was i think that is a lot of the game it's

because it's a bit like in fallout new vegas or any of the fallout games where you just you hoard all of the mini nukes oh and just never use them because it's like well i'll use this for a big fight and then you get to the end of the game and you've not used any of them yeah i did a play for recently where i just used them the second i got them all and it was actually a lot more fun well i guess one you kill the enemies that they're in the environment of probably what they're designed to do and two you no longer have that hanging dread over you of well when while i use these what are they important for every time you go to a big fight you look at your inventory and you go am i going to use them now and you decide not to and because of having

played a new vegas before i know i don't need them because i've finished the last game without using it the last time i played without using any unlike resident evil where i usually hoard the magnum bullets for bosses well i do that and then i decide well if i use the shotgun only on the boss then i keep the magnum bullets for later and i'd say that every single boss fight and then i'm at the end of the game after having to reload like 15 times i've got all the magnum bullets and that's that's kind of the situation i feel like i'm in in the game where you've like hoarded up stuff but you haven't used it i keep on looking at my big bag full of magnum rounds and keep on going well if i keep these for now i can use them later but i keep on i'm wondering

if later will never come i mean in six turns probably not but uh yeah i'm i'm hoping to do some damage on your wall um sort of push that back a little i i don't know if you can tackle the wall in the way you think you can i don't know what your plan is but i'm just wondering if your plan accounts for everything that the wall is i mean it certainly doesn't because i haven't scouted them or anything i don't know what's in there um i've got a bit of a sense now because from bombing a couple of them i know roughly the infantry tank gun distribution yeah you know the makeup of nine infantry three guns and one armor for the 63rd serene yeah and i bombed one of the other ones i've written down somewhere i think it might be the first libyan i bombed at one point

yeah i think i think one of the libyans has been bombed and fought and then one of them is completely untouched yeah so i kind of got a sense but finding out nine infantry with uh five guns and a armor was uh concerning to say the least and that's one of the four that are there yeah um but i'm gonna i'm gonna go into them i'm gonna try and see if my i don't know how much armor you have but uh i'm gonna hope my armor sort of swings it well one of those four is a tank um i'm not sure what the level of sort of organization is it's not division but i think it's whatever one down is i think brigade maybe i think it's a tank brigade yeah so i've got i've got tanks i've got armor yeah so i wouldn't count on your armor swinging it

well we'll see when our armor clashes because a lot of your armor from what we've looked like the l33s are just literally couldn't hit the british tanks so yeah i'm hoping what i can do is overwhelm you to the point where it's just your tanks left and then i'm fine if it's just your tanks left okay if i can pick off everything else and i've just got a hundred thousand prisoners 30,000 prisoners I guess it would be Yeah, you can't get There's not 100,000 prisoners to take Yeah, if you get 100,000

you're taking a big chunk of Cairo I'm taking civilians as well You're neutral Yeah, but you know Egypt never declared war I'm declaring war Which is kind of weird because there was a whole war in that country

We're doing a war there right now We're just doing war on that country We're not doing it in that country sort of a grim distinction that only a ghoulish lawyer would make well i'm pretty sure that i'm currently taking the side of fairly ghoulish folk yeah so if i was to try and think along their lines i think ghoulishness is maybe the way that they would go honestly it would be bad for every other aspect of your life but i think if you fought like the italian commanders did i'd have a big advantage frivolously and foolishly

yeah well the thing is they they fought the way that i i don't i guess they're thinking you know what if tomorrow never comes no i think the problem was they were thinking like in 500 years we're going to have rebuilt rome and we're going to be like the the great heroes of it what they weren't thinking of was oh shit we don't have enough radios. That's a good point. I'm thinking if tomorrow never comes. Yeah. If we keep playing this game Andy tomorrow never comes. This game

is our life forever. For a bit of it. For so much of it. So much of it Andy. Stop downplaying what we're doing. It will be one of the things I look back on in my life and be like that was a thing. Andy you don't get to look back on it. It's going to be ever

present. What do you mean shrugging? No, I'm trying to scare you straight. I mean, there's nothing to be gained by that because we're doing it. Yeah, there is. You can feel the way I feel. Why would you want that? Because I don't want to be alone.

Then get happy. Get happy? How am I going to get happy? Just have a big smile. Oh, fuck you. Maybe some listener mail will cheer you up. Oh, fuck you. Don't you use the listeners at me like that.

i'm engaging the accountability tool now buck your ideas up i mean i guess it's kind of what the accountability tool is here for but i feel like that was very underhanded of you we do need to do the listener segment we we are obliged to it's part of the podcast but how dare you do it like that all right well we're going to go into it listener mail who have we got here first of all we've got jeff we spoke to jeff before jeff's been in touch in the past yeah it's jeff from chicago again it is that's how the email opens it's jeff from chicago again as we said we've once again said it's jeff from chicago again i just finished episode 51 and i had a thought with how often you bring up dungeons and dragons during the podcast how long until one

completely filters into the other in your lives oh that's not good that means we have to play this game in dungeons and dragons andy no that's not this is going to take over every aspect of our life keep them separate church and state for example in episode 51 you compare rommel's rules in game to a paladin all the talk of dead camels will almost inevitably lead to camel necromancy or maybe that's just me all the historical figures who could easily inspire a variety of npc characters both friend and foe it seems like you have a purpose built up for for an intrepid dm to run with like myself maybe i'm intrepid i've been called worse heck it's barely removed from an indiana jones style desert adventure so your other friends shouldn't even risk aneurysms from

sustained eye rolling at the idea oh well stay subtle humble and brave until i send you my next ridiculous idea jeff i feel like you could we could put it in the desert and our friends would be like oh yeah this makes sense we're doing a sort of egypt deserty campaign and then when i started being like i'm gonna lug boxes from here to here so we don't die of thirst while we fight these ghouls they're gonna be like what are you doing well the core issue with this i guess jeff is that the people who play dnd in our group it's me andy and our other friend and our other friend is the one who introduced us to the campaign for north africa he's the one who told us about the wacky idea that it is so everyone at the table will be acutely aware of what we're doing i as dm

will be and as we've learned today i won't enjoy that very much andy will clock immediately what's going on and our other friend will i think that's where the eye rolling comes in because all we've done is we've subtly roped him into playing the campaign for north africa without any of the merit of finishing the game and all of the detriment of ruining our favorite hobby why is this character sheet called sgsu7 and why have you given me 10 of them you'll never succeed with your evil plot i swear to you 28th maori division you won't get away with this now that that's a scare that's a high cr challenge that's actually the uh the big bad guy at the end of the campaign they're initiating bayonet charge

we've got to run they use action surge and then they sprint at you with their glaives for anyone who plays D&D that probably makes a lick of sense for anyone who doesn't we're just being silly but in our sense

in essence oh my god what's going on in essence this always happens during the listener mail i fumble it i'm usually very eloquent yeah your tongue gets caught up i'm well put together cat's got my tongue you know which can it is no it's fucking heathcliff it's that bloody cat um jeff in essence i i do fear maybe it does bleed into parts of my psyche i do fear that

this game holds too much of a grasp on my life it's it's it's been once a week for a year so if we have it bleed in the other way then if you could have a level 20 character from any class just dumped into it. Okay. Okay. Okay, I like this. So if I

had to put any class of D&D character. You'd get basically one like demigod with powers. And they're going to be fighting for me as the current Axis forces in the scenario. Yeah. Yeah, they'll get their own overly complicated rules,

but they'll basically do what a level 20 TNT character does. I feel like there's a perfect decision here. Okay, there is a right answer. There is a right answer. Do you know what it is? Yeah. So on the count of three, are we going to say the class? Yeah, let's say the different classes on the count of three.

All right, so three, two, one. Druid. No, it's not wizard. It's druid. How? In this environment. For control weather? Yes, control weather.

plant growth that's not useful plant growth on a supply line you can grow plants that slow down movement completely there have to be plants there at the beginning oh fuck I can't even do D&D right anymore Andy

you've lost it man you could use tsunami across the coastline yeah for 300 feet yeah that's kind of the range of your guns isn't it And what would you do with a wizard in this scenario? Honestly, boring answer.

A shitload of divination. Yeah, right, okay. So you don't get a divination wizard. You can't see the future. So what would you pick then? Necromancer wizard. No, you'll get your subclass. You just get basic wizard.

Wizard is the correct answer always when it's witch D&D class in real life. No, it's not. Yeah, it is. right okay well i'm gonna have to disagree out of principle and not because i disagree well jeff um you've you've divided us further but it's a very creative question that we've we've taken and ran with and it's it's one that has is it will lie heavy on my soul forever um but thank you for getting in touch i look forward to your next email and thank you for

listening episode 51 you are you're you're gaining on us you're right behind us you're probably caught up you're listening to this right now as it comes out this your first listen it's probably come out right now jeff this is my message to you jeff hi anyway handy on to the next piece of mail you got it there uh yeah damn it don't have the name you lost it i've lost the name you lost the name Monty Monty Monty how could you lose Monty it's a historical name for a historical podcast I should have known we're making history it's a game about history speaking of history uh this subject is POW under the Japanese oh so it is very history related yes uh good morning to y'all it's a nice overcast day here in Texas while I work uh I have been up to date on

the episode for quite some time now and eagerly wait for each new episode yesterday i listened to episode 53 the latest at the time of this email and you had talked about prisoners of war under the japanese my great uncle pierce whom my brother is named after was actually a pow under the japanese in world war ii he managed to narrowly escape execution survived prison camps without getting dysentery collaborated with kind japanese civilians who provide him with food made elaborate fly traps in order to trade flies for food and cigarettes carried an american flag the whole time with him and was eventually released uh when the war ended all the while writing a diary about the things that happened my mother was later given these diaries and she transcribed them

into a blog for anyone to read about i'll provide the link to it read it for your own curiosity and feel free to reference read out and share the link on the podcast in fact it'd be incredible and you could do a history segment on it although i understand it has no direct relevance to uh campaign for north africa i will say as uh james has been pointing out this lesson uh this is going to go on for 10 plus years i'll probably get around to it uh yeah we have we have a long time We may be expanding from North Africa to just World War II at some point, but yeah. Regardless of what you do with it, I hope it provides an interesting read into what being a POW under the Japanese was like.

At the beginning, the POW diaries, and then he sent a link. Unfortunately, due to the time period and the tension between the Americans and the Japanese, my great-uncle Pierce does frequently use derogatory terms for the Japanese. later in life he said uh that he actually respected and appreciated many of the japanese people and the term was ingrained in him from being in the military thanks for that money uh i haven't started having a look at it yet but i think we'll share the link uh might start putting like a useful link thing up on the website uh and maybe send it over you for pulling the instagram yeah i think that would be good um what you you've you've you've sobered me uh monday you have i feel like

that that's that's taken me out of the wacky mindset i was in that's that sort of grounded me and reminded me that this is the real world sometimes yeah and then playing a game about stuff that happened to real people yeah ah there we go that's that's that accountability tool kicking in um that's that is really the the bringing the american flag around and because that's a sense of patriotism you don't really in the uk that's not really something that's very present in the same way that it is sort of being co-opted yeah it's it's a it's an odd topic in the uk it it has it hasn't really been prevalent until it's prevalent in ways with very negative connotations so we don't really have a whole bearing the flag sort of situation very often

it's certainly not one in a daily occurrence so that dedication especially from what i know of the cultural relevance of that from from both the american standpoint of the sort of allegiance to the flag the the love for it and also the the the situation of a japanese prisoner of war the conditions they were in and i don't know if this is blanket or if i've just sort of seen some of the fictional depictions of it and how grim it was it's quite a chilling idea that someone was bold enough to carry that around with them in those places because from what i understand it was not a very easy time to be a japanese prisoner of war i haven't read it yet i'm looking forward to uh it's not going to be a light read i don't think

but uh yeah i feel like that's going to be a very definitely going to be interesting that's not going to be a sit down bedtime read monty i think what you've given me is something to read when i'm i'm outdoors and i can escape into the natural environment afterwards i i imagine what your great uncle has put together is probably going to be a harrowing read but definitely one i will tap into because learning about this part of history isn't always pleasant it's also about always interesting when you get a diary or a memoir where it's it's a snapshot it's not like an overview you get a very personal level on it which yeah if anything it's more accurate in it depends what you're after i suppose but if it's about yeah an actual experience that's going to paint someone's

perspective which is always through the lens of someone's eyes they're their own person and you've mentioned there about the the terms that are used to describe people there's going to be a lot of stuff that's going to be through the lens of time as well it's going to be a lot things that are seen through a wartime environment not just necessarily the connotations behind different nationalities but also this is someone who is a prisoner of war that will very much differ from how we see being a prisoner of war for someone who's actually a prisoner of war yeah if anything they may see it i don't know this is a weird thing for me to maybe posit maybe they'll see it not as bad as we would see it in the sense that if we were in that situation

we'd probably have an instant breakdown where someone who's adjusted to a wartime environment maybe they see it through a more hardened shell i don't know this is completely speculative but i'm i'm interested to give it a read because i don't know what that's going to entail yeah but it's a very it's a very cool and personal anecdote to share them on and reading it'll be a interesting yeah informative not yeah informative fun not you know let's blow party poppers fun yeah but thank you for for sharing that um i think a history segment could well be in play in the future uh i was i have been planning a sort of prisoner of war series so i might broader prisoner maybe a an anthology of different prisoners of war yeah

but we'll we'll tap into it and i think definitely the reality check perhaps i needed today maybe maybe that's got me out of things a little bit but monday thank you for that thank you very much for sending this stuff in i always love when uh you guys send in uh both just general information but also like personal connections to things yeah whether it's a board game thing whether it's a world war ii thing or any war or anything that's even tangentially related there is something like i just said there about it being from someone's perspective rather than just facts from a book there is something that really changes the the way that we see things when it is someone's anecdote so anyone with any sort of anecdote or anything they want to share at all

or ask or just say then send it over to us at info at war with a mate.co.uk the website is war with a mate.co.uk and the instagram is just war with a mate and we'll get around to it all our inbox at the moment is looking a little bit light yes we do have a backlog of some of the web forms from the that people are sent in so if you sent something in through that don't worry we've not missed it we just haven't got around to it yet yes the web forms came through in a bit of a bulk mess so we are currently sifting through which ones have been looked at in the past and which ones haven't our email decided to not show them and now they're all amalgamated in one one space so we're trying to decipher which is which but send it all over

love to hear from you we will read it all at some point and it's it's always it's always good because it snaps me out of it it's accountability and if you can't think of anything to send just send something and tell me to play the game tell me to play the fucking game because you can't really complain about doing this when you've got a POW's diary

yeah people are sharing very intimate details with us about their family experiences not playing a game with your friends and here I am complaining about playing a game in a warm place suffering is subjective andy yeah i mean so i'm allowed to suffer a little bit as well didn't say

it was implied i inferred it i sort of implied that you should you know book your ideas up a little i don't think you you didn't imply that at all that was just i've said it several times the yeah that that subtext was just text however we live we learn but if we are gonna pry on the past if we are going to look back and see how bad things were how things could have been different maybe you can take the wheel here okay so what does history look like andy in a nutshell if you could describe history in three different colors what would you describe it as red it's a lot of red yeah that's definitely a big one gray yeah because that covers black and white which is how history used to look and uh red gray we'll put some beige in there uh i guess

for this particular period of history because of the desert and stuff yeah um i'll allow a lot of recent history i feel like recent history is very there's been a lot of fighting in basic pretty close to this region yeah i guess yeah there is a lot of beige going on okay so with that being said who is history today today we're picking up and continuing the seven farmer division and we're wrapping up operation compass let's see how it all ends well as we know it's not been going well for the italians oh god no um to quote one of them i am more or less in the position of a captain in command of a ship which is on the point of sinking because errors are present on all sides that's a quote from everyone's least favorite nine lives italian general

rodolfo graziani oh graziani you're a piece of shit but you are speaking some truth to me right now a nice bit of a allocating the blame elsewhere as well i wish i could allocate the blame elsewhere but we're entirely responsible for our stuff yeah and it's also less heinous yeah so we're picking up uh the battle of better form we're going from the night of the 6th of february to the 7th of february but we're gonna quickly just dart away uh because on the 6th of february something very important to this whole uh thing happened yes uh on the 6th of february uh hitler gave command of the africa court to erwin rommel ah a man we know the specter looming over this game yes so he's getting the job as this is happening oh he's he's rumbling in the distance

he's coming um but yeah we've left the two-day raging battle uh back uh back in libya at this point the british have had the advantage um during the night the second royal tank regiment who've been doing work knocking out hundreds of tanks are ordered south to help with the roadblock but they won't entire arrive in time to have an effect on the final stages of the battle while that's happening the seventh hussars are heading north scouting and harassing the column and starting to look for people who are breaking away so at 6 30 a.m the second rifle brigade who are the ones who have been holding this roadblock are heavily shelled by an organized effort to break through from the italians behind this screening of artillery comes two columns of

armor roughly 30 tanks left at this point and they're putting them into this attack to try breakthrough a lot of tanks uh yeah one of the columns actually does manage to break through the line of the second rifle and gets into the reserve area the british do manage to slow this advance finally with accurate artillery fire on the remaining italian tanks however the italian tanks in response managed to take out all but the last gun okay so really eradicating what's going on yeah despite the other guns being taken out the battery commander his batman which i didn't know was a role in the military but is that where he came from batman originated the north african campaign who just used from what i could tell is like a general personal secretary slash executive

assistant for an officer no that's alfred yeah batman or alfred i guess so yeah the battery commander is batman and sorry what a stupid sentence it's gonna get a bit dumber um the battery commander is batman and the kook form an impromptu gun crew and managed to knock out the final tank 18 meters from the officer's mess tent so they really got in there yeah that's real close and personal no wonder the kook's involved yeah this is the italians like last major push and at 11 a.m general virgin virginio the chief of staff for the 10th army manages to find the fourth armored division and surrender bringing the battle pretty much to the end i like that it's described as he finds them and surrenders there seems to be a lot of this where there's

people looking for someone to surrender to yeah they want safety they want food they want water they want a prisoner camp to be part of which again is where maybe there's a differing idea of being a prisoner of war depending on the theater you're in because these people are actively seeking out somewhere to be a prisoner yeah this brings the battle of better form uh form to an end as this surrender happens white flags go up along the italian column leaving a battlefield that's 15 miles long just covered in thousands of destroyed and abandoned vehicles hunt like a hundred tanks and a hundred guns so in total from this they take 25 000 prisoners including four generals including electric beard which we mentioned oh yes i

remember electric yeah he managed to get out with tabrook and he's being a well being chased essentially so batman is hunting for electric beard yeah um i'd read that issue in doing so they wiped the italian tenth army from history that caught me off guard that's gone and there they go yeah the tenth army yeah yeah i i have them coming from triply at the moment i think this that's your overall or is the 10th army like a specific i'm pretty sure i don't know if it's like an abstracted um because the 10th army is very small relative oh it might be here like hq i think for the overall because like i've got the

eighth army um at the minute it's the western desert force but later on it's the eighth army but then that has all the divisions in it oh okay yeah i could be wrong but i think the 10th army is like a broken off um group that's coming from there right yeah so yeah i'll have to look into that but possibly to the north the australians capture benghazi and then they start heading down the road which also sealed it all in response to this uh graziani uh sent off a message to mussolini on the 8th of february juice these latest events have severely depressed my nerves and strength so that i cannot continue to exercise command in full possession of my faculties i therefore ask to be recalled and replaced so mussolini will grant this request on the 25th

of march and he'll be replaced by italo garibaldi did graziani just shame quit the wall yeah that's i mean you can't really look at what happened and go anything other than this has gone horrifically bad what a fucking weasel yeah how dare you do that how dare you make this happen and then quit yeah you you rat fuck and then he just heads back to italy and spends like two years just hunting anti-fascists in italy so it's like oh i couldn't win my war against like a determined opponent with like equal resources to us i'm gonna i'm gonna i'll go attack my own citizens who don't agree with me cool that's that's really going back to basics fascism yeah it was easier before we got this war kicked off what a coward oh yeah

so over the next three days the british organized prisoners tally their captured gear and loot everything from the italian convoy they destroyed that included a lot of wine and chocolate they also all got a fresh clean italian shirt a bunch of officers got cars and a bunch of random troops got motorcycles everyone's getting dished out those spores of war so this brings operation compass to an end originally meant to be five days but between the 7th of january and the 7th of february the british forces of just two divisions the sixth australians and the seventh division had pushed the front 500 miles in against nine italian divisions to do this the western desert force or corp 13 as it had been renamed had 500 men killed 55 missing and 1375 wounded

the raf lost 26 aircraft with even more being non-functional due to conditions and lack of spare parts uh particularly once the italians started using explosive ammo on the other side of this sort of scale the uh italians 10th army well ceased to exist but they they had five and a half thousand men killed 10 000 wounded and 133 298 men taken prisoner that is such a historical faux pas that is just comical it's such a ratio they also lost 420 tanks and 845 guns the british started with 255 tanks operation compass obviously a massive success beyond their wildest dreams yeah which is actually why at this point they've not planned for it to go this well so they don't have the men in the region or the supplies to push into tripoli

while this is happening also the greek the greeks are willing to enter the war if they get sufficient reinforcements so because of this the six australians and the second new zealand as well as the first armors brigade uh leave the theater and head off to greece and then despite the success of the seventh armor division they're heavily below strength they're down to 12 cruisers and 40 light tanks so the decision is made to withdraw them to egypt there was talk about disbanding them but i'll quote uh churchill here talking about the seventh at the end of february the seventh british armored division had been withdrawn to egypt to rest and refill this famous unit had rendered the highest service its tanks had traveled far and were largely used up its

numbers were shrunk by fighting and wear and tear still there was a core of the most experienced hard-bitten and desert-wavy fighting men, the likes of whom could not be found by us, it was a pity not to keep them in being the nucleus of this unique organisation and rebuild it by drafts and officers of men arriving

trained, fresh and keen from England and send them to pick whatever new tanks or spare parts that could be found thus the 7th Armoured Division would be preserved a continuity of life and be resurrected in strength so at the end of February

they're back to Egypt a lot of the forces that have done Operation Compass are, well, the 6th are gone the 7th are back in Egypt being refilled, refuelled, refitted but yeah, keeping that core of the guys you need them there

you want that they're the best of the best when it comes to that desert warfare so we'll flick back over flick back up to Berlin for hitler's reaction to this whole thing just to give a sense of the alliance between the italians and the germans hitler's reaction was to joke to his generals that failure has had the healthy effect of once more compressing italian claims to within the natural boundaries of italian

capabilities so that's a fun thing for your ally to say about it it's not the only reaction though because erwin rommel is on his way and on the 12th of february 1941 he arrives in tripoli with uh the africa corp and on the 14th of february the british will have their first encounter with german forces in north africa we'll get to that later did you just drop a post-credit scene for your history segment i did do you just drop a post-credit scene where hitler is thanos dropping his his rommel loki into the north african campaign what a what a wild conclusion to operation compass yeah i mean

what an just an insane success it's insane that they went from a 10-day mission five So it was five days? It was originally meant to be five days and to push them back to the Egyptian border. And they pushed them back 500 miles? Yeah, fully out of the region of Cyrenaica, off the map, where we're playing the game on. Yeah, they take them off completely. That's absolutely bewildering that that happened. Yeah.

It's crazy that that happened and then it continued. Yeah. well they couldn't it would have been interesting and like one of those what if folks in history if they'd supported like they'd sent more reinforcements in and they'd gone into tripoli yeah but i think part of the reason operation compass works is because the italians were in a very defensive mindset so the british could be incredibly aggressive yeah whereas rommel is a very aggressive like even more so than this in a lot of ways general where you wouldn't be able to do this because he'd come around you he'd hit you like head on um he wouldn't just sort of

essentially do an organized retreat for a month which maybe is the mindset i should go into when i'm trying to move forward maybe that is the if tomorrow never comes situation well that that's a bit of advice we got in uh episode three from the echoes of war guys where he said not just for this game because he hadn't played it but uh in general if you were playing the uh axis in a sort of realistic war game you need to be aggressive because eventually the commonwealth like production completely outweighs and stuff will eventually come and like overwhelm you so you need to be aggressive from go yeah that is a good point maybe that's something i need to take on board for the for the full game and i guess also the rest of the scenario maybe the wall needs to

keep moving further east maybe the push needs to be harder maybe i went too soft because we're in the game we're in october now right yes we're not so we're not up to the start of operation compass yet no way i don't think technically we are no i think operation compass comes in towards the back end of the scenario yeah i think it operation compass might be if you do the 20 turn version they call operation compass yes to be fair i don't even know if operation compass is coined in the game scenario i think it's it's got a different one there's one before the desert fox yeah there's graziani's offensive there's another one which is 20 turns i think that might be and then the desert fox is right after that so yeah that but crazy uh like the disparity in

force sizes and the result like if anyone listening who's like knows their history i'd like love to see examples of like where a force of this outmatched has achieved these results yeah this feels like one of the more successful military operations maybe of all time yeah in terms of what they set out to achieve i guess not even set out to achieve what they had to start with resource wise and what they end up doing yes like even if you remove the fact that they had a mission in play and you you eradicate the idea that they had something in mind if you just take the scope alone how often is it that you get that that's sort of a 300 type situation yeah but they like charge the pigeon camp and drive them back to back 500 miles and then take

all of them prisoner uh but that was general o'connor and john combi are two largely responsible and they're both probably gonna get their own episodes of like individuals but i think that lunge across the desert to start the Battle of Betaform is an incredible calculated risk. They had three days of supplies

left. If they hadn't beat the army, the Italians, that day so they could resupply from the loot they were done. Yeah, it's do or die. Yeah. So yeah, that's Operation Compass and we'll be

picking up with the 7th again. what an operation it was oh yeah wow no love that one that that's that's been a fun one one because it puts the fear of god into me when it comes to how i'm gonna tackle the rest of the scenario which is what the history segments are actually for i know i know you've been planting the seeds but also as a a slice of history again that i never would have come across that is a maybe like you say one of the most disproportionate successes in military history yeah because again i'm not much of a war history guy no me neither maybe like this is it doesn't feel routine but like if anyone would like yeah email in with comparable stuff i'd love to see it yeah if

anyone knows of anything that matches this or outweighs it in any way by all means fire it over would love to hear that i absolutely would love to hear that but i'm excited to see what happens next in history andy right now though i'm right now it seems like a much needed common ground and now for something nicer a little oasis in the war it's time for some common ground i'm trying to interrupt the common ground i'm recording maybe i i need i need your support andy okay i i need i need to find some common ground with you not necessarily for the sake of you and i becoming friends because the conflict that's coming

maybe next week you and i will be at each other's throats yeah i'm gonna need a good one but right now i need to unite with you against the game and i have for you an issue that is much more contemporary than what we've just been discussing okay so my common ground which is the segment in which you and i come together we decide a topic we find an agreement between the proposed topic so that we can continue to fight this war at the end as friends mine is a gripe that i have with modern society andy a lot of them are they are they're my this is my grumble box and today's grumble box common ground is modern day business terminologies and buzzwords need to be removed completely they need to be eradicated we cannot keep on throwing out

these silly business words in workplaces that are just there for the sake of it babble that babble is a very very good way to describe them you know how to start because i i'm we're just going to agree and talk about this um you know how like star trek has techno babble yes a lot of biz no babble but it's like you could be saying a real thing because we know how to manage people we don't know how to build a faster than light engine but it's as comprehensible yes and it's not it's not quite legalese where it's like specialized it's just nothingness said to fill a gap yeah and there's there's one word in particular that has been floating around for me just in my periphery for the last like six seven years and it's it's a simple word and this might

be me picking at nothing this might be i might just be hyper fixating on a a particular term that's griped me for no reason but it's the word peace peace yeah as in p-i-e-c-e and it's when people describe things as a piece oh yes we're working on the hr piece yes because they've for some reason shortened piece of work which would also not be a good way to describe it Exactly. Oh yes, we've got this telephony piece. We've got this compliance piece. We've got this sales piece that we're working on. And I've noticed it only ever comes up as a haphazard term thrown around by usually management. And it's just, oh yes, this is this X piece that we're working on and what it makes me think is you don't really know what this thing is that

you're encapsulating you're trying to broadly position something and you don't really know what you're positioning yeah you don't have a word for it otherwise you would say the like new phone system yeah yeah yeah or the you could even say project yeah where did project go projects fine projects broad peace is there's there's two parts to it one is you're not mozart this isn't art what you're doing isn't a piece in that sense and that's where i feel like the etymology not even etymology it's the same word it's not the origin of the word it's the the bastardization of the word peace is not the right word and secondly and again it comes from the the misunderstanding it's the it it's it's the um the r it's the just filler word for what

you're meaning to say i don't like that andy there's something about that that really gripes me yeah i i all that business speak is it's just awful like i don't know if you've ever been on linkedin lunatics on reddit oh i have this is like what you're complaining about is those guys who thankfully i've never been too close to the like startup founder culture but that seems like that's an another level i think the closest time i had anything like that was i worked in sales a few years ago and it was business to business sales and the company i really enjoy working with the company was a really good company and the people were very grounded but there were occasionally terms that i encountered when i felt like i was in like a like a like a suit style

drama without any of the flash flare or reason to be in it and i was like these seems like it seems like terms that have been co-opted and again i think throw one out there yes please uh mindfulness i'm not for years but one of the first places i worked the uh was just constantly saying you need to be mindful and have mindfulness and stuff about different things it was like you mean think about it yeah you know what that's it it's it's sort of it's it's over saturating ascendance yeah and i'm a bit of a wordy guy a control panel for a dog track we're not zen don't try and make this spiritual like nothing about what we're doing is mindful of buddhist or whatever yeah don't don't don't attach connotations that aren't there

and i know that you know it's it's part of trying to influence people to get them on board with the project project see how i said that not peace yeah and it's part of that you're trying to galvanize the team by using words that have ameliorative connotations but there's something disingenuous about it there's something that's either misinformative or insidious and i usually find it hard to distinguish which it is i think it's i think it's like using flash and like the business terms to like hide when you don't know things yes the good managers like the really good managers i've had have been incredibly like plain spoken yes likewise when you just get the information delivered in a way that it's it's if anything it's sort of underwhelming and that's

refreshing when it happens when you just get given some information and it's just the information i don't know if i've noticed i'm probably gonna start noticing it now but peace is a very interesting because again it can come from well-mannered places it can come from someone who's heard that term maybe someone's said that and it's been parroted back where someone's described it as well this is the x piece that we're doing and then that's how it's been disseminated to everyone else but what what do you mean by peace because that's so broad do it feels a little bit like when someone tries to turn a negative term into a positive yeah because it also makes it sound small yes and it tends to be like yeah a project is like a thing and it's like a piece

feels like it should be like yeah like a small piece of something not months of work yes it's something that realistically i've got no reason to be frustrated at on the surface but because i know that they can't if i was to say what what do you mean by peace what is a piece what is a piece compared to a project what is a project compared to a body of work what where do these things align and if someone can't really explain what that is i'd become annoyed yeah and i think that's nitpicky of me i really do and this isn't me saying this is objectively the way people need to think but this is how i think andy and this is what common ground is it's not for me to be right it's for you to agree and i knew that you would agree with me on this i knew that you would feel some solace

here and that you'd you'd agree that this business speak that's just nothing it's just noise just say stuff as it is yeah and i love a bit of wordplay i love putting you if i find a new word that i like i'll stick it in something i'll say it i'll use it every day for a week verisimilitude remember that one andy you love that one that one always comes up i found that word and i fucking love it i ran with it i ran with it and i'll use it all the time but i also appreciate that it's a silly word and if someone was to say what does it mean i can tell you what it means it's the aspect of how it compares to what it's trying to be yeah the accuracy of something to what it's trying to imitate or replicate but if if you can't tell me what it means i'm not happy with that i'm not

you need to be able to boil it down to the simplest thing and if you can't hold your hand up and then just say i'll use a different word then and that that's a it's a me flaw it really is it's not that it's wrong i just really don't like it i think that's fair i agree i don't think management needs its own lingo because it's not like you can have the lingo for the thing you're doing like construction or whatever management doesn't need its own it stretches like just across management as a concept yeah abstract management doesn't need to have a language yeah it should just be the thing you're doing it should be yeah if it's construction it should be the the building zone or whatever it is whatever terminology it is it's got its own terminology

for a reason but it should be within the vertical you're managing in not this weird management layer that sort of seeps across everything yeah because i feel like peace could be used to describe anything you're doing at your job and anything i'm doing at my job and we have vastly different jobs in terms of the day-to-day yeah and there's probably some dumb business book that's like when a worker is handling a piece so well we everyone's handling pieces differently in their industry but you've you've tried to make all this like omni applicable yeah you can't and you can't do that it doesn't apply to everything it needs to be differentiated a bit like what we're doing andy this needs to be differentiated the war with the mate peace it's gonna go on forever

it's not a piece it's not a piece it's you know what you know what this is a piece this is a piece of art and i will i will bleed for this art andy i'm bleeding for this art now because i don't know that this is going to be as short as I hoped it would be. It's just not, man. I just thought time would be different than it is. Look, we'll finish the scenario piece and then we'll get

off you. Onto the full campaign piece. Well, I'd quite like them to, if they are going to use the terms, add campaign. Yes. This is our new custom outreach campaign.

it's like they have it in marketing but do it do it internally yeah do it internally i like that one because i use it in dnd use it dnd and this it's it's a word i weirdly use a lot of i guess what i want andy is in order for me to feel comfortable in situations i want everyone to accommodate me and for them to stop using things that they've heard stop using terms that make them feel comfortable and accommodate me in every which way and form that they can just so that i don't feel slightly bothered well that's the only way to be comfortable it is and i think if everyone were to do that and just accommodate me in every walk of life i wouldn't have many problems i can certainly agree on that

well andy now that we've reached that common ground and that you've just said that you agree with that very clear point is there anything more to be said uh stay subtle humble and brave thanks for listening and in the deserts of your minds it's not the peace of your mind it's not the peace of the desert of your mind it's just the broad expanding and eternal deserts of your mind in which there might not be tomorrow but if there is send us an email at info what with a mate dot go to uk or our website war with a mate dot go to uk or just our instagram just war with a mate and you'll hear from us next time you simply must who knows what's going to happen it's going to be a big one good night

We'll be right back.