Was I In A Cult? - Body & Brain Yoga Tai Chi: “The Cult FKA Dahn Yoga”

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

What if the yoga class you signed up for wasn’t yoga at all, but the doorway to something much darker?In this episode, Angel takes us inside Body & Brain Yoga and Tai Chi — a strip-mall wellness studio that seemed harmless enough. Until it wasn’t. Instead of stretching, you’re told to march in circles, punch your stomach, chant about your mother’s failings, and spill your deepest traumas to a room full of strangers.What Angel didn’t know was that Body & Brain isn’t just a quirky yoga chain. It’s a nationwide empire with 70+ locations, millions in revenue, luxury retreats in Sedona — and a founder who flew private while his followers drowned in debt.And that’s just the beginning. Dig deeper and you’ll find that Body & Brain is nothing new at all… it’s the rebranded face of Dahn Yoga — one of the most notorious modern cults.________FOLLOW USFor more cult content, behind-the-scenes chaos:→ @wasiinacult on Instagram & TikTokFOLLOW ANGELInsta: @mtan_gelSUPPORT THE SHOWYou can support this show by rating, reviewing, and sharing it with your people — word of mouth keeps us growing.And if you really want to help keep the mics on? Become a Patreon member. Unlike Body & Brain, we don’t drain bank accounts — we just give you ad-free episodes, bonus content, and our undying gratitude.→ Join us on Patreon.HAVE A CULTY STORY?Want to share it? We wanna hear it.→ [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. People who are in the know are, like, on the Google reviews being like, this is a cult, stay out. But that's pretty much all you can see in terms of challenging it. So I wanted to provide a platform for when people are eventually looking at body and brain,

they'll see something that kind of confirms what they're experiencing and get out earlier. Welcome to was I in a cult. I'm Tyler Meesum. And over here is Liz Ayakutsi, right? And today's episode, guys, I don't know. I think I'm going to quit. I think I can't do it any longer. I just, I can't believe how many cults there are in our world. You can't quit, Liz, because there's so many more cults to do.

In fact, as of September 2025, there are over 90,548 active cults in the world, and I got that off of stats that aren't real.com. I made it up, but there's a lot of cults out there. And we can't sadly give you guys a concrete number of how many active cults there are today because of the way these cults operate. Yeah, most of them are secretive. They change names. They splinter into offshoots.

They don't really register with the Better Business Bureau. Yes, there are the obvious ones. You know, the ones that keep on, Colton, no matter what. Can I get a Scientology, anyone? We'll take Scientology for $300. Just a tip. Don't join Scientology. Don't join Scientology, guys.

But then there are the unknown ones. And these are the ones that are often hiding right in front of you in plain sight. The ones next door to where you pick up your natural deodorant and a $15 bag of chocolate-covered gummy bears in bulk. I'm talking about sprouts, everybody. You know, Liz, I feel like you have a bit more to say about the grocery store sprouts. As a matter of fact, I might, Tyler. But guess what? I'm going to save it for now.

Keep the audience around. There will be more Sprouts talk. Today's episode is not about sprouts. It is not about sprouts, but it is about what is lurking right next door to a Sprout. Yes, a place called Body and Brain Yoga and Tai Chi. You know, I'd never heard of this nonsense, but then I actually realized once when I was in Chicago, I had Googled places to take a yoga class. I wanted to take a yoga class.

And this place popped up. There's a location right in Skokie, Illinois, and I never went because the time didn't work and I didn't want to do Tai Chi, but I almost attended. It is too bad that you didn't because after doing this episode and hearing her experience, I would have loved to have seen what you, knowing so much you know about Colts, would have thought after 20 minutes in this place. Well, we did miss a retreat in Pasadena on my birthday, which would have been the best birthday present ever. Never. Too bad we didn't go to that. Yeah. But they are everywhere. This place is everywhere. They're in L.A. They're in Koreatown. They're in Burbank. They're in Pasadena. And there are 70 locations of this. Well, I'll just say it, a cult nationwide. 70.

In 19 states. Yeah, they're basically benign, but there they are. Well, it's seemingly benign because what they don't tell you is that body and brain is not just another yoga chain. It is a rebrand. A cult rebrand, everybody. They were formerly known as Don Yoga. And is Don with an H, not a W, but hey, Don Yoga with an H. We're on to you, mofos.

You can change your name, but you can't change your culty little soul. Let's have Angel tell us, shall we? Take out your night. My name. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. My name is Angel. I'm here to talk about a cult that I was briefly in called body and brain, yoga, and Tai Chi,

which sounds so innocent, but turned out not to be. so innocent. So I'm from San Diego, California. My mother raised me as a single parent until I was seven, and that is because my biological father actually passed before I was born. So it was just us, and it was hard, but I had a lot of family support, and I'm grateful for that. So I have a half-brother, a stepdad, and a mom, and then a ton of extended family because I'm Latina, and that's how it goes. I was a theater nerd. More of an artsy type. I did a lot of AP classes as well, so I was good at school, and I guess that's translated because I'm getting a PhD now. I went to UC Santa Barbara for my undergrad, which has a reputation of being a party school,

which is earned. Go Gauchos. Go ahead. Tell us what a gaucho is. Do you know what a Gaucho is? The Steely Dan record. I never got into Steely Dan. I know, for a white middle-aged guy, I probably should have gotten a Steely Dan. It's about time. No, I just, I try. I can't do it. It's a little too soft and fluffy for me. Nope.

Sorry, Steely Dan fans out there. Or Steely Dan fan out there. I doubt our demographic really listens to Steely Dan. But anyways, a gaucho, which is the mascot for UC Santa Barbara, is an Argentinian cowboy. That's a gaucho. But we also work really hard. I did model UN there. I was on the rowing team.

I feel like, yeah, I feel like I did my 20s well aside from that. You know, I did a lot of fun stuff. And then when I entered my 30s, I was like pretty ready to focus on the things I needed to do. So after living it up in the perfect California sun for four years, Angel moved up north. I lived in Portland for three years, figuring out my identity. I was in an open relationship for a while. which is a cult of its own that you guys should cover

it's wild. It's a lot. Statistically speaking, open relationships aren't as fringe as people think. About one in five adults say that they've tried one at some point in their life, but if you look at people currently in them, it drops to about one in 40.

People's stress levels are too high to handle more than one person. Yeah, there's no way. I'm lucky to have found one person to be with me, adding another would just turn it into a scheduling app. But plenty of people are much more adventurous than I. Gen Z and millennials are the most open to non-monogamy, with men reporting slightly higher rates than women,

and LGBTQ plus folks reporting the highest. About 12% say their ideal setup would be open. But here's the twist. When researchers compared open and monogamous couples across dozens of studies, they found no meaningful difference in overall relationship or sexual sex. In fact, on average, people in open relationships are just as happy as people in monogamous ones.

Sure. But the caveat is, satisfaction depends upon agreement. People who want monogamy but end up in an open relationship tend to be less happy and vice versa. When the relationship type matches the preference, well, satisfaction goes up. I mean, that's pretty standard, right? So after Portland I moved to New Mexico to be closer to my extended family It's like the weirdest place I've ever lived And that's really what I'm looking for out of a place There's like nuclear weapons Aliens there's a lot of culty stuff out here

Like happening in the desert That appealed to me being close to family Living in the desert is good for my curly hair Now back in the 1970s New Mexico was among the states with the highest number of cults per capita. Whether that's still true today is difficult to say. Nobody's really updated that stat, but it tracks.

New Mexico's got more UFO cults, communes, and creepy desert retreat centers than you'd think. Even Heaven's Gate had a base in New Mexico. Yeah, in fact, one of the cults was called the Lord Our Righteousness Church. It was led by Wayne Bent. He was based in New Mexico. He declared himself the Messiah. And in 2008, well, the Messiah was sentenced to 10 years for sexually abusing two teenage girls. Vomit back, please.

And then there's the militant Christian fundamentalist cult commune known as the Aggressive Christianity Mission's Training Corp. Which was headquartered in Fence Lake, New Mexico. Cartoonishly evil. That's Rob, our producer. He will chime in with bad jokes. Everyone snow out. Why does it have to be aggressive? You know what I mean?

Right. Why can't it just be Christian? Yeah. We aggressively train. Exactly. And mission training core. It is a real, that is a real place. Except it's not anymore because...

It's leader, Deborah Green. She was convicted in 2018 of guess what? Child rape, kidnapping, and abuse and sentenced to 72 years. years in prison. She actually got out of prison and apparently her case this year is being re-looked at. I know. I'm sorry. This is not an episode of Behind the Bastards. No, it is not. But it all is to say that New Mexico is a good home for a cult. I was kind of in a weird transition period because I took a leave of absence for my PhD for a year because I was just dealing with not wanting to move again during the pandemic.

I'm always busy and doing a lot, so I think I was looking to fill that with something. And yoga was a practice that I have always engaged with and did it when I lived in Portland, of course, and I have experienced more of the psychological benefits at that point. I felt and continue to feel like pretty integrated with a lot of the things I've been through, so I wasn't really looking for yoga to fill that void.

It was more of the physical aspect. to kind of do something restorative. And then one fine day, a friend told her about a class. Be leery of friends offering free classes. Yes, if you've learned anything from our show. Just say no. To the free introductory class. Especially if it's from a place called the Christianity missions training

core. Aggressive. I heard about it from a mutual friend who I knew through, a moon circle group because I've always kind of been interested in witchy shit and I was going to these moon circle groups with other women and she was recruiting me to go using her voucher to this introductory workshop where they said they were going to do some chakra alignment, Tai Chi yoga. It was very vague about what we were going to do. But I was thinking I like all those things. I have exposure to all those things. Like why not? I'm going to go. I'm going to bring a couple of my other friends, and we'll see how it pans out.

So as Angel finds her way towards an introductory class, we, Liz and I, find our way towards reading some ads. We'll be right back after. Okay, am I the only one who's been feeling stressed lately? I can't be the only one. No, stress kind of seems to be on the daily menu these days. I am certainly feeling it as evidenced by this episode. But that is where Headspace comes in. Yeah, it's the app that's all about meditation, mindfulness, breathing exercise. I love it.

It gives your brain a break, which we all need more of. Yeah. So here's the thing. And to be honest, I've really been weirded out by meditation. It just kind of feels woo-woo to me. I'm a natural skeptic. But my wife, she's a proponent of meditation. She convinced me to use Headspace for short meditation.

So every morning, after breakfast, We both do it together. It's true. And I was hesitant, but I got to say it works. I mean, I works. It's like two minutes. That's it. And it's a great way to start the day. And that's why Headspace, it's great. It's not just woo-woo, you know, come to my mountain and meditate for hours. It's rooted in science. There's over 100 million people who use it to manage stress, boost their mood, get better sleep. Yeah. So whether you're brand new to meditation like me or you've been doing it for years, there's something for you. Quick on the go practices. when you're busier or longer sessions, if you really want to settle in. Plus, their library is massive. They have over 1,000 hours of exercises. I love this app. Yeah, Headspace really does make me feel better. So feel good and mean it when you say it.

For a limited time, get Headspace free for 60 days. 60 days, guys, go to headspace.com slash cult pod. That's H-E-A-D-S-P-A-C-E dot com slash cult pod to unlock all of Headspace, free for 60 days. Headspace.com slash culpod. So Angel's friend had invited her to come to an introductory workshop at Body and Brain. It was yoga, it was Tai Chi, it was highly recommended, of course, so why not? Free, right?

I'll go check it out. On the first day I went there, I was going with my two friends, and it looks, the storefront, it's like in a strip mall, so it's like right next to like a sprouts. Sprouts. Sprouts Farmer's Market, I think it's officially called the most confusing grocery store in America, I think. It's like Whole Foods weird cousin. It's kind of part health food co-op.

Their produce section, it's fine, you know. But then one day it'll shock you with their tomato varieties. I'll be like, damn, I've never heard of Cherokee purple tomatoes before. I don't understand you, Sprouts, but thank you for always keeping me on my toes. And for always carrying my favorite flavored almond milk, hazelnut, coffee. creamer when everyone else only takes a chance on vanilla, you know? You confuse me, sprouts, but you complete me. Rob, I feel like you're just chomping it a bit to talk about sprouts.

You know, I was just about to pop in and say, um, they always have the weird LeCroix flavors. Yeah. They have like the beach plum coconut year round. They always have a whole aisle dedicated to their new products. Never seen anybody else do that. You guys finished? I do feel like we spend an inordinate amount of time. Oh, like you look like you're trying to be like Trader Josie in your prices, but then I like buy seven items and it's like $100 and I'm like, well, this is not Trader Josie.

This is worse than Whole Foods. They use different math there. They use hippie math at Sprouts. Regardless, there are 477 sprouts in the United States. They're going to open 35 more this year. So go on down to sprouts and get yourself something weird. They sell a really cheap sandwich at the deli, too. You can get like a $5 turkey sandwich there still.

I didn't think anything costs $5. But that's the other thing. Their cheese selection. Bad cheese selection for such a fancy store. Yeah, they don't even have like non-R-GT fed cheese. It's all like, I'm like, I don't understand you. But then to the right of it, they have like tortillas that are like only egg 100% protein for $12. Make a decision and stick with it.

Are we done? I mean, honestly, this is. The bread section's not that great. This is a cold podcast. But then they're frozen section, pretty impressive. They have every type of weird gluten-free pizza. Is there something I can do to turn this off? Oh, yeah, and their sauces are fantastic.

I can get all of my fun Asian sauces that I love. They have 12 different Vietnamese fish sauces, but they only have like one kind of people are still not into their greens. But then your lettuces look like Trader Joe's's leftovers, you know, like how Trader Joe's gets to hand me down. Anything? You guys know? But if you want a lemon-flavored Ponzu that's organic imported, they've got. Good thing they have avocados at seven different price points, and you're really not sure how they're different from each other. I think I'm going to go listen to Steely Dan.

Holiday flavored like anything, they will always be the first one to have it. November to January, I'm getting all my coffee flavors from sprouts. Should we move on? Yeah, onto the pastry section at sprouts. Let's discuss that. They have a great pie for like $6. And they'll sell you half a pie, too. You can get half a pie at sprouts.

But they're peptides. I get their collagen peptides. They're Sprout's brand. And it's always on sale. Peptides, but you can't buy Pepsi. You know, you can't buy Coke or Pepsi there. I don't know. Anyways.

Oh, and they're carts. They have those weird little half carts. They have the half carts that I kind of appreciate. I'm not buying that much. But you always do. You always fill that thing up. And then you go back for the bigger cart. It's never enough.

No, there's never enough You're never enough talking about And how about like the creepy security guard That's there every time you walk in Or is that just my location? Always looks at my little butt So it looks very fine on the outside Fine on the inside, very like clean, very simple

They have a bunch of pictures though Which kind of caught my attention right way Of like the leader Who I now know is like Il Chi Lee And I was thinking that was kind of strange But didn't want to close myself off to it Ilchi Lee is the founder of Body and Brain and Dawn Yoga and we'll get into him more in a bit. Yeah, so you're in like this big room and it has a wood floor and it's got like a lot of windows and you're all facing the front and there's just like rows of chairs.

And that kind of threw me off. I'm like, wait, aren't we doing yoga? Why are their chairs? Like, you don't use those in yoga. There's like a little like altar where the lady is behind. She's like the, I guess the head of their organization. She is Korean, a little bit older than me, like mid-30s, but she's like smiling the whole time. And she's like really positive in her delivery, very, very smiley, very happy, very enthusiastic in a way that was kind of overwhelming and stressful.

Keep note of the excessive smiling. So she had us all sit down and she didn't have us sit down near each other. She's like, you sit here, you sit here, you sit here, you stay here. So it's like the three of us and like two other people. There was not many of us in there. And before we went into the class, they had us watch a couple of like introductory videos on body and brain, which I thought was a little strange for something that was like advertised as yoga because usually in yoga you just go in and then someone tells you like what you're doing. Yeah, an introductory video at an introductory yoga class is not normal. If you want me to watch a video before I come to your class, send me the link ahead of time.

You know what I mean? And the videos were really strange. I thought they had kind of a weird, overly happy, positive in like a fake way kind of vibe. What I love about the practice is that when I'm there, I don't have a care in the world. And I was getting really confused about what was being discussed in the videos. There definitely was an aspect that was people sharing how it changed our lives. We have fun together and it's very effective for our overall health, but also for just being happier and being more positive, having a good relationship with the body.

And there was some history as well. So they were kind of upholding the leader whose pictures were everywhere and what he brought to the organization that he has gifted us and is passing down to us. Originally, this comes from Korea. And the practice involves a lot of ancient and traditional Korean healing practices, self-care practices, martial arts practices. And this very complicated system that's a mix of chakra alignment and Tai Chi and root activation and all different kinds of modalities that was kind of like a little red flag right there that they were kind of all thrown together. This blend of yoga and Tai Chi and Kigo is so deep and so powerful. But I just thought, okay, whatever, I'm just going to like passively take this in and then get into the class. Any age and anybody type, any gender, then easily do it in any place anytime.

Then when we got started, she was having us do strange, outlandish things to get our energy up. So she's like, walk over here and go like this with your hands, like make your hands bright and strong and go towards this corner of the room. Now walk in a circle and go to that corner of the room. And then it's like, okay, now lay down on the ground. you know, sit in the chair and close your eyes. Don't you feel good? Doesn't your energy feel up? Don't you see how this is working for you?

No, no, I don't. I actually don't. But maybe it's me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. You're definitely doing it wrong. And I was just trying to stay open because this program comes from a different culture and I don't want to be like exclusionary of different cultural practices if that's what was going on.

But I'm like, this is for sure not yoga. This doesn't seem to be exactly Tai Chi. But we're doing a bunch of stuff that's, someone's telling us to do is basically what happened. The words yoga and Tai Chi kind of get thrown out of the window once you're in it. But reflecting on it now, the way I feel is like training you to like do exactly what someone's telling you to do and when to do it and like to interpret the way it's making you feel based on what they're saying to you.

Also known as blind obedience training. The movement part was like an hour and then before that was like 30 minutes. So all of us were expecting to like be there for just an hour. But we were there for like two hours because afterwards, when we got out, she was like pressed up on us trying to get us to sign up for the next thing. Okay, you did this. Like now you should sign up for like the next thing. You should sign up for like a monthly class because it's going to make you feel this way. Also, I want to like offer you a deal on a personal energetic reading where I'll tell you like where your blocks are and things like that.

It's discounted. You really should do it. It's like a hard sell. This is a classic cult move. create the wound, then sell you the cure. But always at a discount, of course. That is, if you sign up right now. Right now.

I was trying to stay open and positive. My other friend was feeling also that way, like pretty positive. And then my other friend, who is now an optometrist, was immediately like, nope, this is super weird. I don't want any part of this, like, trying to get out there as quickly as possible. Well, she, like, left before we were even done with everything and just waited for us outside. I decided to do the reading with her because it wasn't that much. So I was like, why not? And it'll also, like, get me out of here and get her off my back.

But it's very aggressive. And it was aggressive from the moment we walked in to the moment we walked out. So much so that when I felt like when we left, I was just like, in a daze. I'm like, what just happened? You know, like, what this weird place next to sprouts? Did I just, like, go through, like, a portal or something? Like what happened in there? So it was just her energy was up the entire time.

And I'm realizing now that that was like a sales tactic for sure. A cult sales tactic, which is even more dangerous because the seller isn't just pushing a product. She herself has been indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing that her own enlightenment or insert whatever here depends on bringing people in. Yeah. And look, we've said it before on this show. but if someone is being overly aggressive in their sales approach and you feel just like a tinge not to do it, you know, listen to that. It doesn't mean you need to say no, but... Sleep on it. Take a walk. Call a friend.

Step away, and I don't care if it's a cult class or someone trying to get you to go on a date or a soup of the day. Or, you know, if someone's pushing you way too hard to do something and do it right now, just take a breath. Stop, question it. It'll always be there if it's meant for you. And if you want to learn about what else is meant for you, come to my weekend retreat. But sign up now at a discount. So the next thing that I did was went to the energetic reading, which was just she and I. And it was us in like a little private room.

There was like some massage, some pressure point activation, which I have some familiarity with. And then she was using some interesting tools. that some I agreed to, some I didn't. It's not what you think it is. She had this thing called like a belly button activator that they put into your belly button to like activate your chakra, which I'm not for, I don't know why,

but I have a weird thing with belly buttons. I hate it. So I was like, I get weird when I touch my own belly button. You're not allowed to touch my belly button. That is a no-no. I mean, you can touch mine. What? No belly button issues here.

It's fine. You don't mind if anybody touches your butt button? I mean, if it's a stranger, it sprouts. Yes, I do, but I, doesn't bother me. What body part are we not allowed to touch, Tyler? It's open. Free game over here. Put the steely Dan on and go ahead and take my belly button.

And while we were doing this, she was asking me to, like, share some of my traumas, which as a healed person, I can do with very little emotion. Like, I can talk about, you know, having a father who passed away before I was born, and it doesn't bring up a lot for me because I've done a lot of therapy, so I shared that. So what Angel is describing is something called trauma mining, and it's a well-used cult tactic. And it is exactly as it sounds. The leader asks you to open up about real pain and trauma, but not to help you heal, rather to strip you raw emotionally. Yeah, and once you're raw, you're more suggestible.

And there are many reasons for why that is. the science of the prefrontal cortex when in an emotional state, et cetera, et cetera. But one of the reasons this is is because when you share something deeply vulnerable, it makes you feel like you've bonded with that person or group that you've shared it with. And that bond lowers defenses. It makes you feel safe. But in cults, sharing is never safe. Because the next move is,

they then position themselves as the only healer, the only program that can quote fix you. And then you start to believe that the only way out of your pain is through their workshops, their retreats, or your loyalty to their leader. And it's not just unethical.

It's very dangerous. At the end of this, I would say I felt very drained and a little bit activated by what she was saying to me, which was you have inherent damage to your root chakra. Because of the fact that your

father died before you were born and the only way to fix it would be to sign up for their classes that I could take unlimited on a monthly basis and also to do this day long inner self workshop that would help

me like see my root problems and again hard sell and it's just she and I this time it's just up in my face like you're going to do this, it's going to be good, it's going to be good and I was just like okay, you know I did feel some like positive

benefits from the first thing not so much this thing but I'm in this kind of place where I'm trying to be open now I'm like, dang, I've just like walked out and been done right there but I did not so I went home, I felt bad, I was sharing

it over the phone with the guy I was seeing and he was unfortunately being like, you should stay open to it but like stay guarded was his kind of approach at that point So I was like thinking that I could walk that line as well, even though I was seeing some red flags. Yeah, because Angel felt like she had something of a cult shield because of her background. She'd been poised to not fall for something crazy like a cult, right?

Spirituality, though, has been something that I think and know to be empirically beneficial to people. I'm not closed off to it completely, but I am wary and aware of the ways that it can cause harm. I come from the framework of like an intellectual and I also come from it from the framework of a scientist, so I'm in the mental health field. So I've already been trained to look out for things that might cause harm for people, you know, and might be dangerous.

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That's geo. p-a-a-a-a-a-apparel.com slash cult and intercode cult. You guys are going to like this brand. Okay, so we've spent a great deal of the episode talking about sprouts, unfortunately, but we've also talked about the love bombing and indoctrination process and how that works. But obviously, there is much more to a cult than just getting in. They also have to keep you there. And they keep you there with the free sandwich. and the good prices.

Pumpkin spiced everything. I... Why did I even say it? I just wait for pumpkin spiced everything. So the classes are organized. Sometimes it's the leader teaching and then there's sometimes it's like the guy below her. He's also like in charge. He's also Korean.

And then there's a bunch of helpers who in retrospect I don't think are getting paid. They do free stuff for the studio. And in the classes it was mostly older women actually. Like probably like over 60 was the crowd in there. crowd in there. And we were doing a lot of the same things, a lot of movements and smiling to make yourself feel good and like different kinds of exercises like punching your stomach over and over again for a certain amount of time and then punching this area and then yelling. So a lot of like Simon says type of activities. So I understand tapping and therapy and energy release,

but what do they claim punching your stomach over and over and over again? Is this? going to do. Oh, that works your chakra abs, Liz. You want to, you want a chakra six-pack. I already got one of those. Can't see it. That's why it's energetic. You need a third eye for that. Exactly. This is all supposed to do a bunch of things at once. So it's supposed to help you heal your traumas. So your chakras are aligned and you can be your most integrated self. Spiritual. mumbo, jumbo. It's supposed to help you find your true purpose. Punch yourself.

Find your purpose. Doesn't look good on a billboard, does it? They have different classes like true purpose class, inner self class, healing class, like all the buzzwords. Again, just like thrown together in a way that wasn't super coherent to me. I think that's kind of the point, right? Yeah, but punching your stomach and wandering from one end of the room to the other and then sitting down at the urging of another is one thing. but then it starts to get a little bit more psychologically dangerous. And then there was like a meditation component.

I think that the meditation component was the cultiest part because we were being asked to meditate sometimes on darker topics. It was like think about the way your mother treated you when you were growing up and really put yourself in that position as if you were that age and how it made you feel. And I felt very resistant to that because this is not, that way of doing things. You know, you don't have the certifications. You're not teaching people how to, like, contain it afterwards and move on with their days. You're just asking them to bring

things up. And it might not be something that they've actually experienced. And this is where the dangerous part comes in, because then they weaponize your trauma. Again, not to help heal you, but to get you to sign up for their classes and retreats. Yeah, I think that one time when I was in an in-person class, I was asked to share about my experience. by the leader. She's like, oh, do you want to talk about your dad dying that you shared with me? And I was like, I just intellectualized it, checked out, said what she wanted me to say and then moved on. And then afterwards, you are together in the circle and you're talking about how this has gotten in the way of you finding your true purpose or becoming your true self.

But if you keep coming to classes, you'll keep getting closer to your true purpose. think the most violating part was just the use of the few things I shared against me to like make me seem like an incomplete person. I think any good therapist knows you don't do that to someone, like you don't tell them that their trauma makes them. Unlovable, damaged, in need of the therapist to like heal them. It's okay, you have some stuff you want to work through. I'm here to help you. How can I help you? But in this case, it was brought up by the leader in public settings. Just trying to make me think about it over and over again. And I had the reaction of getting angry. So that was very violating to, like, have those traumatic things used against me.

And body and brain are far from the only self-help groups out there like this. I mean, look at Tony Robbins or most any other self-help speaker. If they start with your flaws and traumas and then claim that if you do it their way, you will be healed or fixed, well, walk or run. Or punch somebody in the stomach. I think that for them, what the messaging is, the things that you think, you want and that are actually going to bring you peace and happiness and joy and purpose aren't real like they're based in your traumas the true self is something that we only we can unlock for you

and the true self i came to realize is like becoming a part of the organization and doing recruitment for the organization and getting more and more invested you start in the base classes but that's not enough you need to go to the retreat at the center but that's not enough so you need to go to the retreat in Sedona. But that's not enough, so you need to become a coach. And you can pay to do the coach training. It's X amount of money over X amount of months. And then if you're a good enough coach,

then you can run your own center in a state that you're not from or a country you're not from. And then you are responsible for recruiting a certain number every month for both pay, but mainly just to, like, keep your position in the group. That's, like, the kind of top level. So it's indentured servitude after. a certain point once you keep going. It's like group therapy combined with a pyramid scheme.

But it works, right? I mean, sure, it's a sacrifice and a commitment and all the things. But the people who are truly committed are now living their true selves, right? Right? And I would say that none of the people that were like really integrated into the organization seemed happy to me. And they hadn't cured the things that they were hoping to cure because the cult makes the promise of being able to cure diseases, which is extremely.

problematic. They seemed unhappy. They seemed subservient, the people that are volunteering there. Well, sure, they may not be happy, but really, I mean, who is? But at least they're living a life of luxury, right? Right? Oh, yeah. They all have a uniform that they wear. And some people have said that they live in the centers. She did have a little bed in the back. So I can't say for sure that She lived there full time, but she definitely got to sleep there often. And they have a kitchen there, and it seems like it's in good use as well. So it is likely. My period of that true believer phase was brief, but it was there.

I felt a lot of euphoria from the physical exercises we were doing. Like the kundalini activation is very potent. And I was feeling the benefits of that. I think I was going to classes at my peak like five times a week. The financial piece is definitely the part that was the most overwhelming. The classes on a monthly basis are wildly expensive. And these were just the classes, not like the retreats or anything, which are like even more expensive.

Fuck them. You know, maybe I'm just in a pissy mood from everything going on. But I am so tired of this shit, frankly. Just con men, con women lying in weight everywhere. They're stealing, they're lying, using God or chakras or whatever so that they can ruin nice. things we used to have like free speech democracy so they can make

more crypto right to buy shit that they don't need tired and I need a drink let's go to Sprouts they do have a good wine they have a decent wine section yeah so

all right I'm fine now and like Angels said beyond the classes where the workshops where are you well we'll let you guess the very innovative name. They called these workshops. I did the Finder True Self workshop, which is like a day long workshop. I think it's like you get there at 8 a.m. and you leave at 8 p.m. It was $400. There's other ones that happen in Sedona, which are the more expensive ones. I'm talking like a thousand dollar range.

But the one that I went to was just at the center in the strip mall. The find your true self workshop actually just happened this past Sunday right here in Pasadena. We could have gone, Tyler. Yeah, it's too bad. I was busy doing absolutely anything other than going to that workshop. That's what I was busy doing. However, good news for us, Liz, is that they're all over. We could travel. They're in Texas, Hawaii, Jersey, the Bronx, Scarsdale, Forest Hills, Chicago, hot Atlanta, and of course, Albuquerque. And the loaded language and thought reformed jargon is at an 11. on their website, this is what it says for this retreat. In one day, you'll meet your past conditioning.

Whatever the fact that means. Transform through self-healing. Awakened your innate power. Reconnect with your true self. Align with your authentic purpose. Cultivate inner bees. Eat snacks. All right, that's not there, but I'm sure they have lots and lots of snacks.

Yeah, it certainly would change my mind. I'd at least consider it if they offered snacks. Yeah. But the video that is on the website promoting this workshop, I don't know if you didn't know any better, I don't know, you might find it inspiring. There are natural ways to heal yourself. And being one with who you truly are is the first step.

Albeit like the first indoctrination, I'm sorry, introductory video. This one is also very obscure. They really don't say what it is. The vast majority of this particular video is just really people talking about the retreat, like, for example, this. My overall experience has been beyond anything I imagined. And this. I was just like completely purging all of these negative emotions.

And it felt so good. And whatever the fuck this is. It's like giving birth to yourself. Coming strong with the clothes and... I think that anyone. can benefit from this. And, you know, if you're on the fence, I just say, do it. I spoke too soon.

I hadn't seen the video prior to saying I had things to do. If you're on the fence, just do it, Tyler. Done. I'm no longer on the fence. I must give birth to myself. I've been dying to do that. So I got there super early. We did some initial exercises like we do in the classes.

And then we were all sat down in like the main room on the floor. The leader came in and she gave us an overview just saying, like, you know, it's going to be all day. And we do this for your safety because we don't want people coming in, but we're going to lock the doors so you can't leave during this. And then we started doing a bunch of different activities that I would consider to be like a lot more problematic than what we were doing in the classes that really set off my alarm bells. I think the first one that we did was a exercise where you pick someone in the group and they are like serving as the vessel for whoever you want it to be like your dad that you're mad at your mom that you're mad at and you like let loose on them about the problems you're having

yeah like screaming and then at the end we're all encouraged we're all given a pillow and we're encouraged to like beat up the pillow against the walls and just like scream about the things that have brought us trauma and the person were traumatized against and it was very much not like if you want to do it it's like you have to do it if you're not doing it the leader will come over to you and put her like arm on you and say hey like let it go and then she'll like get you all amped up like you're really mad with you say i'm mad at you dad you know and things like that um but people are including myself really laying into that thing because I do believe in like expression therapy.

So I'm like, you know, whatever, fine. We were doing all these very emotional exercises where we were expected to do things that were embarrassing for ourselves in front of the group. We were like in two lines. And everyone was supposed to go down one at a time and just like move in ways that we would find like weird or embarrassing and have everyone else like clapping at you and like being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can do it. I'm still not clear on why. I think now, in retrospect, the idea was more of that same thing, like, do what you're told

so that we can get you into, like, a malleable state later in this, like, eight-hour-long day where you are ready to do this trauma stuff. So there was another one. This was towards the end where they play this kind of weird audio, and it's you, like, calling out to your mom and being like, Mom, why did you hurt me? Mom, why did you do this? And you're supposed to, like, kind of chant it in time with this audio. but feel the warmth of, like, the group all around you.

It's, like, helping you heal from the things that your mom couldn't give to you. I think that part where we're, like, expected to be meditating about how our parents, our mother in particular, like, caused us harm because I don't have that experience. Like, I went through shit with my mom because she was a single parent, and that's really hard, but I never felt like she did irreparable damage to me, and we've worked through a lot of shit as well. So it felt unjust to have that expectation. put on me. And this is also how cults start the process of isolation, and parents are always the

first on the chopping block, because if they can convince you that your mother or father is toxic, well, they've just severed your strongest lifeline back to reality. I was starting to think about the other people in the room, and I'm like, man, this might be doing real damage to some people who actually do have trauma with their mom and have never thought about it before, or who are having these expectations place on them and are finally only now just healing through this group, which is not ethical. If people want to talk to you about their traumas, it's them bringing it to you, not the other way around. As a therapist or a social worker, I don't go into a session being like, tell me about the worst thing that ever happened to you, but that is the vernacular and language

around this. So in that, there's the assumption that these things did happen to you, which is problematic if they did, and it's problematic if they didn't, because if they didn't, it can encourage someone who may not have had these experiences to think they have repressed memories about these experiences and create them for themselves. Ding, motherfucking, ding, ding, ding. Do you just say things? Just, do you, do you? And you believe I actually wrote that line for myself? Yeah, I can actually. And you probably deliberated over it and you probably misspelled ding and then you had to go back and fix it. So yeah.

Ding. Motherfucking ding, ding, ding. So that part really stuck to me and it's what encouraged me to like get out. Basically, I was like, at the end, we're all given like a rose as well. But it lasted so long. I was drained by the end of it. I was like, I'm getting out of this room. I'm not signing up for anything else.

Like, this is so intense. This is so unethical. It's not let people leave and force them to have these emotional responses. and I know the next thing they're going to ask me to do is to go to this retreat in Sedona and I do not want to go. And I'm holding this rose

that she gave me and I'm desperately trying to leave the building and she's press up on me like oh wait, wait, don't leave it. Like you need to sign up for the next thing and we'd already been there for like 12 hours.

Very much relying on exhaustion, isolation. And she blocks me from exiting the building at first. She's like in front of the doors and I'm like, I really have to go. My grandma's sick. And she's like, oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that.

But she can wait like 10 minutes. come over here, come sign up for the Sedona Workshop. And I was just like, that's when I got emboldened and got powerful again. I was like, no, I'm leaving right now. Goodbye. Exited. So that was very violating to like have those traumatic things used against me. And after that training was over, I don't use, I don't feel suicidal, but I did feel

suicidal after that training. And I was able to, because I have coping skills, like, come back from it, but I felt very activated. Like, my PTSD was, like, on high alert. I hate cults. We'll be right back. Okay, so I'm supposed to read that. Bowling branched linens, sheets, blankets, and comforters

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They've got bundles for every kind of sleep. Cool and cozy and soft and, oh, gosh. Oh, yeah, yeah, you'll love them. We did. It's the softest quality sleep we've ever had. Guys, I just got a new waffle blanket. It feels so soft and it looks so good next to my moose set up on the wall.

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I love my bowling branch. Certainly, I do, I do. Yeah, you do. And for a limited time, you get 20% and all fed bundles at bowl and branch.com slash cult. I better spell that for you because nobody knows what Tyler just said. That's bowl and branch. That's B-O-L-L-L-A-N-D branch.

Bowl, two else, not with a W, don't get confused. Bowl and branch.com slash cult. Save 20%. Oh, wow. That's a lot of savings. Whoa. Pumpkin spice from sprouts. On behalf of was I in a cult, I would like to apologize to anyone with a regional accent.

I'm sorry I had to hear that. So Angel, after many, many months... And many, many dollars... Left the cult. But that didn't mean the cult left her alone. I didn't feel comfortable calling them because I knew I would... start getting manipulated again. So I just got rid of that credit card that they were billing.

And once that happened is when she started being interested in talking to me again. I was getting harassed by her in particular for six months afterwards. So she started calling me. First from the number that I had for her, which I blocked. And then from other numbers that I didn't have in my phone. So sometimes I would answer and she would be there. And I'm like, all right, block this number. And I got texts from different weird numbers.

She tried to add me on Facebook. I was getting long emails saying all the reasons I should come back. It was not going to stop unless I just went completely no contact and blocked every single thing that she could contact me through. I was just like, what the fuck? What the fuck was I just in? I was like, felt bad for her, felt a little amused at the situation after a while because I had processed it and moved on.

But what exactly she had moved on from, well, she wasn't entirely clear. I think at first I was still a little hesitant to call it a cult and it was because of the cultural implications honestly like I think I would have honestly I probably would have had a lot more immediacy with calling them a cult if it was like a Western organization and leader because that's what I have exposure to but I didn't want to immediately go there so it just took a while I did a lot of reading I got interested in y'all's podcast started listening to that and hearing about all the different examples of cults and I was like ah! Okay. Yes, this was a cult. This is one. This is bad. And then just felt more impassioned and concerned about the people that are still in that organization. So I started just by looking up different details about the organization, as it's called now, called Body and Brain Yoga. I was looking at the reviews on Google for my local organization and seeing a lot of messages that sound exactly the same about how great it is, but the ones that are negative are all saying, This is a cult. These are the reasons why it's a cult. And those reasons were almost identical to what I experienced. And then I found the connection to Don Yoga, and I realized, like, oh, this is a lot bigger than I thought. They have, like, done a rebrand, but this organization has had serious cult implications on them in the past.

And I know that there was some abuse in terms of forced work. Allegations that were made against them, like people being forced to do work without pay in dangerous conditions. and say it's like making them better. They force them to like go without sleep for long periods of time, which is classic cult. And the things that I know for the lawsuits have to do with the financial aspect, they were, you know, charging people all this money to do these retreats. People are going to debt over it. Yep. Body and brain yoga is a rebrand of a cult called Don Yoga.

And yes, that is Don with an H. Don is a Korean word that means primal. vital energy, also known as Chi. Don Yoga started back in 1985 in South Korea by Il-Chi Li, a spiritual guru who claimed he could awaken your brain through special exercises. His real name is Xiang Khyon Li. He was born in 1950. He was the son of a rice shop owner in a small South Korean town.

He studied clinical pathology at Dan Kuk University, go black bears, but he never became a doctor. never got licensed as a therapist. And in his late 20s or early 30s, he went up on a mountain one day, meditated, and came down exclaiming that he had achieved sudden enlightenment. Cliche. So cliche. From there, he gave himself a new name. Ilchi, which means one finger pointing to the truth. So clearly his humility was locked in from the beginning.

Then he started teaching breathwork and martial arts in a public park. It grew into Don Hawk, the study of energy, and eventually into the empire of Don Yoga. By the 1990s, he was in the United States running hundreds of centers, taking over strip malls and raking in millions of dollars. And while rank and file members went into massive debt paying for workshops, Il Chi Lee was flying on private jets, buying luxury estates in Sedona, New Zealand, and Korea. And then came the controversy. It's always on its way, isn't it? We knew it was coming. Filled with lawsuits and reputable publications started to expose Don Yoga for what it was. A Forbes article in 2010 called it, quote, a $34 million business built on brainwashing.

And in that same year, Rolling Stone labeled it, quote, the yoga cult. The subhead of the article was how a Korean guru has created a fanatical following on college campuses that is part Moonies, part New Age boot camp, and pure profit. Ex-members accused Don of financial exploitation, fraud, undue influence, deception, emotional abuse, and, like Angel mentioned, forced labor. And of course, Mr. Lee was accused of sexually praying on his young female disciples. I mean, if these guys are one thing, it's consistent. Again.

Cliche! Cliche! It always seems to go that way, doesn't it? We've done so many of these episodes, and every time there's like young female disciples have been prayed upon or abused or I feel like we're just running the same episode with different names. I do too. However, one wrongful death lawsuit in Arizona alleged a member died in a dawn organized hike. Others described being pressured into tens of thousands of dollars getting into debt for workshops. So around 2014, after the lawsuits had piled up.

and the media tension got harsher, Don Yoga quietly phased out, and they officially rebranded to body and brain in the U.S. and globally. They said it was to, quote, better reflect their mission and methodology. Yeah, well, if that were true, then perhaps they should have named it. Hetkanli non-ma-tai, yoping in non-saibi. Which is Korean for cult next to the confusing group. grocery store. Pronounced poorly, no doubt.

But Saibi is Korean for cult, apparently. So, yes, the name did change, but the leadership philosophy training system founder and business model remained the same. They just basically repainted the stinking signs out front. So body and brain, Tai Chi yoga, or whatever is on your website, guess what? We got your number. You're just a rebranded Sae. formerly known as Don Yoga.

Well, that was the scandal when they were Don Yoga is that all of it was going to Il Chi Lee and nobody else. And that's how all this happened. So that is how it was before they became body and brain. But of course, there's always a difference between what is real about the leader and what the followers are told. He is supposedly a man from Korea who has achieved a certain level of enlightenment to know how to allow people to get to their highest purpose, their highest selves, and he started Don Yoga initially to spread the word, the good word, about these things that he knows how to do. Part of their strategy is keeping him kind of hidden and mysterious. Like, it was a huge deal that my leader at my organization had

met him twice and had a picture with him. And she showed us that picture whenever she got a chance. So I think that's part of the allure of him as a cult leader is he's inaccessible unless you've reach a certain level of actualization. And then, you know, you were just blessed to be in his presence. Exposure to other cults helped me see that what I might be facing is a very well-hidden cult. And of course, this whole wild experience wasn't for naught because in the end, Angel did learn a thing or two.

I think if it feels like a cult, smells like a cult, looks like a cult, probably is a cult. if you feel like your boundaries are being violated and you're being forced to relive things that you put away or things that you didn't know that you lived, you might want to consider not engaging with an organization that's forcing you to do that. If you're looking for your purpose, it comes from you, not from like an external source telling you what it is.

Being someone who does purpose-driven work, I found it of my own accord. No one told me to do it. No one pushed me into it. And when you feel, when you're in like, purpose, you will know because it will make you feel fulfilled. It won't make you feel drained. I just want people to, like, be able to walk away quickly when they sniff something out,

like my optometrist friend did, and just focus their efforts elsewhere because the world needs you doing cooler shit, then activating your belly button. So yes, Angel still does yoga, but it's actually yoga. It's not a punch yourself in the stomach scream at your mom who's not really there, body energy pyramid scheme. Next to his sprouts. I do hot yoga once a week at a very great studio

and nobody forces me to stay afterwards to sign up for more shit. It's great. And it's a hobby. It's a great outlet when I'm doing the research that I do which is related to gun violence prevention, which is very intense.

I'm like eager to find like community-based solutions that rely on the efficacy of other community members to prevent gun violence. Yes, today Angel is getting her PhD in social work and public health. And she is in the field of gun violence prevention research, which is not gun policy reform, an important distinction these days. The purpose of her research is to find ways for communities to come together to reduce injury and deaths by guns. Such important work. And as we in this country constantly deal with gun violence, I

do hope she finds or gets us closer to a solution. Not but a few weeks ago, my alma mater Utah Valley University, Go Wolverines, was stricken with a horrible shooting, and no one should be forced to deal with these fucking guns and shootings anymore. Is it possible to just stop shooting each other? Seems simple enough, right? A lot of other countries have figured it out. And how about, can we stop shooting children?

please yeah okay breathe breathe we've taken on a lot today I'm punching my stomach I'm gonna punch my stomach wow this this really does work I feel all my trauma's gone better yeah and your abs are a little tighter yeah so yeah thank you angel we loved hearing your story about how easily you found yourself manipulated into a cult yes thank you angel for helping us continue to expose these horrific cults that are literally everywhere, but mostly next to sprouts.

Thank you to our Patreon members, and to you, our listeners, please help us by rating, liking, subscribing, sharing. We love hearing and reading the little reviews that people read in Apple. It's kind of fun. Word of mouth is honestly how we get most of our listeners, believe it or not. So please, it's simple. Tell a friend, invite him in. Have them sign up for the workshop and so don't.

It's not that hard. It really, really doesn't take much. I'll bring chocolate covered gummy bears. Next week, we'll be back to talk about a very little known company run by a very little known man. We're talking about SpaceX and Elon Musk. Who? I'm sorry, who? There are people who work there who are just like diehard Elon fanboys and like work at SpaceX because they love him, not because they love space.

and they talk about the Elon algorithm which is the dumbest thing in the world it's so stupid it's five-step methodology it's not novel but it's called the Elon algorithm and they literally have it plastered on walls so you can see it from like any location and people will talk about it and like hashtag Elon Alg bro like oh my god shut the fuck up Was Ina Colt is written host and produced it Smart Asked by Liz Ope Milk Jolato in the frozen food section Iacuzzi. And Tyler, guilt-free kale chips with avocado oil that are only 500 calories per serving. Meesum. And Rob, a bin for both salted and unsalted pistachios.

Perra. And Greta, the always discounted macarut powder. Stromquist Why is Mockerut always discounted? Have Tyler say, What is Tyler say, What is Felicia? Yeah, so I can appear more white.

Pray tell, what is that odd quote in which you uttered? Is that from the African-American-themed movie entitled Friday? Of which I have not seen that particular motion picture? I feel like they smoke a lot of dope in that film. Is this correct? Is that film about the day Friday? Perhaps I will see that motion picture in the cinema. Hi, I'm Jesse Prey.

And I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative-driven, and deeply researched. Perfect for the true crime of fissionados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so-called Black Widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murder.

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