Was I In A Cult? - [ENCORE] Eternal Values - Pt3: "To Thine Own Self"

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

A dear friend of the show, Hoyt Richards, who we had on the show back in 2023, has a new HBO docuseries "Bring Me the Beauties: A Model Cult" featuring his story. We caught up with Hoyt to discuss everything. But before we air that, we're going to re-releasing our original three-parter we did on his incredible story.  Before the footage, before the headlines, before the world could see the jawline for themselves, Hoyt shared his story with us.  Listen here, watch the doc, and come back next week for our brand-new interview with Hoyt about what it's like to have a hit documentary about your very personal life out there for the world to see.     THIS IS PART 3 ...      The final part of Hoyt Richards' incredible journey into and out of a UFO doomsday cult. The damning Vanity Fair article throws Hoyt's family into chaos as they attempt to intervene. And right when you think he might finally be getting out, his fellow brothers go to extreme lengths to keep their financial backer from leaving. And it works. Until it finally doesn't. Thank you again, Hoyt. He is a brave and inspirational human, and we loved having him on the show.   FIND HOYT: Website (speaking, blog & cult-recovery resources): https://www.hoytrichards.com Instagram: @hoytrichardsofficial Watch his new HBO docuseries "Bring Me the Beauties: A Model Cult" — directed by Chris Smith (Fyre, Bad Vegan, American Movie), streaming now on HBO Max.___________________________________ FOLLOW US  → For more culty content — follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacult SUPPORT THE SHOW Join our Patreon! Get ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations. (And our forever gratitude) HAVE A CULTY STORY? Email us → [e-mail]

When Freddie died, obviously we had no access to the space people. So then we became much more survivalistic. We had a special room where we had four years to stored food, and we had like bunkers, and we had guns. We were waiting for the apocalypse. This is Was I an occult? I'm Liz Ayakusi. And I'm Tyler Meese. And today is Doomsday, guys.

It's finally upon us. Well, at least it's the end of our time with, Hoyt, Richard. Which, to be honest, for me, it does feel like end times. I am going to miss Hoyt and his wonderful storytelling. We have signed up for the cult of Hoyt, and now we don't want to leave. But all good things must alas come to an end. Why is that? Why can't it be all bad things must come to an end? Whoever invented life is dumb. And I want my money back. Give me my money back. Please. Good luck with that, Liz. Now, if you haven't listened to parts one and two of Hoyt's story, we appreciate your eccentricity. But we highly suggest you do that first.

Now, before we get into the episode, we're going to let Hoyt drop some knowledge on us. Yes, one of the reasons for this podcast is to explore what constitutes a cult, or, as Hoyt puts it, a cultic relationship. I think it's really important to think about cultic relationships. It's a spectrum. If I look at one polar side, it would be Jonestown, like 900 people being coerist or volunteering to take a suicide. colade. And then the other side would be these one-on-one cultic relationships that everybody experiences. And that's a clinical term. A cultural relationship is really defined as someone who, you know, you are seeking the love and approval from. And because of this unconscious power to anything,

I think you've created, you've kind of given them sort of an authoritarian position. And they are now using that position to potentially control and even abuse you. Unfortunately, that happens all of us. You know, it can be a parent, it can be a boss, it can be a lover, a coach. And I think it's important to know that it is part of the human experience. And the crazy thing is when I think about what I signed up for and what I'm doing now, I'm actually finally doing what I signed up for. I would have never imagined it play out the way it's played out. But, you know, I actually now feel like I'm having the type of conversation.

and I'm having the connections to people on a very human, visceral life level that I'd always dreamed about. That's incredibly healing for me. So to bring us back to where we left off. We learned that Sammy Hagar Van Halen himself was influenced by a cult leader, Freddie. And we learned that Vanity Fair ran a rather damning article on Freddie, but he wasn't around to read it because he died. Of AIDS, not a staff infection, just five days. before it came out.

But someone did read the article, and that was Hoyt's family. They read all about his life as a gem-laden member of a very strange UFO cult. So the Vanity Fair article happens in February in 1990. This part of the story is one of my favorite parts. So my oldest brother, Rory, Rory had had his own issues with my family at one point. He was at Princeton as well, and he had flunked out a couple times. He was struggling, but he was dealing with some important stuff. this kind of finding himself and eventually came through the other side.

And so as this whole cult thing starts emerging, my mother's calling it a cult, my brother was, Rory was just like, listen, he's just doing the same thing I did, where everyone else, my mother was like, it's a call, it's a cult. You know, so Rory was very kind of supportive with my whole thing. It's like, it's weird, it's definitely weird. But when the Vanity Fair article came out, he's like, holy shit, did I miss this one? So he approached my family about trying to do an intervention. and my family's going through a really tough financial time

and they're like, listen, we haven't seen them. They were burned out and kind of giving up. But Roy's like, no, I'm going to find a way. And he basically begs, sorrows, and steals what he can to get together enough money to do an intervention. The best way to do a cult intervention is to get the person, in this case Hoyt, to a place that reminds them of their life before. And they staged an intervention for me up in Newport, Rhode Island.

And his brother brings a mutual friend from college, along with his cousin, and three experts in cult intervention. So we went up to New England. My uncle's, he built yachts, and was an Olympic sailor, so we go out sailing with him. So all of that's kind of tried to trigger me back into the old life. And then the next morning, we're at some breakfast place, and then these guys just bump into these other three. And they're like, oh, we sit down and we're talking, and everything seems okay. and then they're like, actually, we need to talk to you about something. I remember my focus just going from my normal thing to just tunnel vision,

and I was just shrinking back into the corner of the restaurant where I'm just, like, freaking out. And then they took me to a hotel room and tried to, you know, do the intervention. And the problem was they were just trying to academically kind of punch holes in the philosophy. But the truth was my attachment to the question. group was emotional. And so it was just a massive impasse. So the next morning, I woke up at the crack of dawn, and we were all staying in the same hotel room, and I snuck out and bolted to the airport.

They came chasing after me. They were still in their pajamas, and they catch me at the airport. And they were trying their best to do the last violent attempt to get me to come around. They were literally restraining him, physically holding him down. and pleading for him not to go. My one friend, Nick, he said, I just started to convulse like a seizure. And he's like at that point, he goes,

I thought, you know, I thought maybe you were going to break. But then he goes, I thought you might actually pass out. So I backed off. And then you came back to yourself. And then you vaulted. And I thought I'll never see you again. You see, Hoyt had important work to do that his loved ones just didn't quite understand.

Remember that according to Freddie, In the year 2000, the Earth's poles were going to shift on their axis, causing major floods and earthquakes, and 99% of humanity was going to be destroyed. But not Hoyt and the space people. They were going to be taken to the star Arcturus during the mayhem and then brought back down to Earth to repopulate the planet. With a race of super tan, blue-eyed, lithe physique, jordan-gene-clad preppies. Mostly men, of course. Freddie claimed that the flooding would cause the maps to be remade. And the mountains of North Carolina will then be beachfront property.

And who doesn't want beachfront property when the world's ending, right? That sounds nice, doesn't it? And the group had spent years saving money and organizing to buy a huge home there. Even though their fearful leader had died, they were still on a mission. We just powered through the move to North Carolina. And we started to make our lives down in Lake Lor, North Carolina, on those lake. These days, Hoyt has left the hospital. and bustle of New York for the calm and quiet of North Carolina.

A lot of people don't realize the beauty that is in this area. And originally, I bought land down here. And then I came down and the house became available and it was irresistible. And more or less, I just said, you know, this is where I want to live. Yes, beauty, calm, and an escape from the impending apocalypse. I've always tried not let modeling control my life. It's worked out that I've convinced some of my colleagues from New York and moved down here with me. We started the whole company, and now I've got a whole life.

And, you know, it's a dream come true. Ah, yes, a dream come true. Just some colleagues waiting around for a spaceship to pick them up. You think they made a pit stop before their road trip out of the galaxy? Like, thanks for picking me up, guys. Can we do one less Costco run? I'd like to get some Pringles, some soda, some beef jerky, you know, before I kiss the earth goodbye. The women had all left.

Then we actually had a house, which was an office. And that began to think that we would travel to every morning. and work at the office. All the work's got to be related to now what we're doing with the eternal values. Everyone had quit their day jobs. And they started buying up businesses around the lake. It was like an all-male, overly handsome cult version of Ozark.

We had the tour-built business, and that expanded into like a whole gaming thing that was on the lakefront. Among the several ventures that Hoyt runs from his Hendersonville office is a health and nutrition company. It consoles people on diet, fitness, and stress management. And then there was the house building business.

A man of many talents. Hoy also manages a construction company which builds homes for other nature lovers who might be lured to the deep south. We had several building projects going on all the time. This is just a part of one of the spec houses that we have. I'll think inside you get a little idea of how it's turning out.

You've got to use your imagination here now. I mean, it's a little stark right now, but it's going to be pretty amazing. This is all you really need in the house at the fireplace, right? So this is the third deck we have out here? So we're about, what, four months away on this? About four months.

But it wasn't good enough just to build the house. They had to do it perfectly. You would stand a wall for fucking hours because it had to be perfect. And we believe that, well, they're just going to come in. They're going to feel the spiritual principles that have been used to build the house. They have to be there.

And, of course, that didn't work. So we were taking a bath. We're having to sell our houses at great discount and losing money. But my career was always there to prop it up. Now when we said everyone had quit their day jobs, we meant almost everyone. The Vanity Fair article, as horrific as it was, made me even more famous. So, you know, the fashion business, which loves drama, all of a sudden, I was like, I'd been this kind of on-time professional Princeton Ivy League guy.

Now it's like, oh my God, Hoyt Richards is in a cult. He's really weird. Maybe he's going to do something on set that it'd be fun to see. Let's book him. So my career actually, and it was mostly in Europe, started to take off and in a whole other realm. So that's when I was really working nonstop. No, guys, this is not a PSA for why you should join a cult.

I could come back to New York for a couple days. I'd have to fly out again. And I've got all my old daily planners. and it's wild to just see how it was jet-setting around. And so it was much harder for me because on one level, I was financing everything still again, and there was all these businesses and these things going on. But because I was so gone all the time,

again, there was a feeling that I wasn't pulling my weight, and I felt awful because I was avoiding going there. I try to explain this to people that are like, well, you were gone so much. Like, how did they have control over you? And I say, listen, I was my own worst prison guard. Like, I knew the rules. I knew what I was supposed to do.

I knew how I was supposed to behave. Well, also, that's a dumb question. Like, why do you think, ask Catholicism, why people have so much guilt for X, Y, and Z? And they're not in a church every day. Right, exactly. So it was really this thing of me just trying to battle my own demons, and I had still had to call in every day to North Carolina and talk to them and, you know,

talk to them about what happened that day and did I live out the spiritual principles. I mean, there would be times where they would be getting into some sort of thing down in North Carolina where someone would be on the hot seat. And then like a comment would come up, you know, and Hoy's just like this too. Get that asshole on the phone. And so I get the phone call, like, 4 a.m. my time or something. You know, I've got a job. I got to leave at six, seven in the morning.

And I get screened out for two, three hours until my alarm goes off. And they're like, go make your fucking money, you piece of shit. And I'd go all freaked out to the set. Bervin's like, oh my God, O'I Richards, you're so amazing. And I'm like, my God, my world is crazy. I mean, I would, you know, I've got agents who, you know, I'm having this dream career. And I would, you know, meet them for dinner. And they would say some comment and give me a compliment.

And that'd be like, no, I'd be like, no, I'd be. just an asshole. They're like, what do you talk? Like, where is this coming from? Like, no one could understand. I'm like, oh, if you really knew me. No, you don't know. I'm really lower than the scum of the earth. And meanwhile, they're like, what? You're the highest paid guy at the job you do in the world. Like, what are you talking about? No, no, I'm just a piece of shit. Psychological abuse is almost always present in cults. I personally don't know of any cult that hasn't used it. It can often be hard to detect, and sadly, it's quite difficult to prove in the legal system. But on a mental level, it can be equally as damaging as physical, sexual,

and financial abuse. So Hoyt, who was being manipulated and coerced at the time, continued to give money to the group as his way of contributing. Big money. They can do what's called legal laundering. So you set up a came-in account. The European countries that I'm working for, where those jobs get wired into the account. That account then sends a while. to a Nevada corporation, and then the Nevada corporation makes a loan to eternal values or whatever our corporations were in North Carolina, and then that loan never gets paid back. Great. So we're teaching people not only how to be cult leaders. Yeah. And also had a...

Legally laundering money. Now, how big is big money, Tyler? Like a couple hundred thousand? It was upwards about probably over all time. You know, it probably was foreign. half, five million. You gave him. Yeah, yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah, and a lot of the stuff after Frederick died was me just maintaining everyone else's, like,

I'm paying their credit card bills, I'm paying for their teeth need to be fixed, I'm just kind of keeping the lights on. We were also buying some properties. You know, we thought the whole economy were going to collapse and all of that, so we wanted gold. Now remember, Freddie was going to take all of his followers to Arcturus, once the polls shift. It was 1998-99 around then. So the millennium is coming.

And this is when the so-called pole shifts you're supposed to be concerned about, right? Y2K was coming. The computers are all going to crash. The shit's really going to hit the fan. But they'll be sitting comfy in the spaceship to Arcturus, right? Right? When Freddie died,

obviously we had no access to the space people. So then we became much more survivalistic. We had a special room where we had four years to store food, and we had bunkers, and we had guns. We were waiting for the apocalypse. The narrative at that time was Frederick took on our karma because we were such belligerent, bad followers. We killed him, and now we are no longer able to be taken out,

and we're going to stay here and fight for crumbs with the other people, you know, while a world goes through hell. That was really where I started to kind of mentally move away from the group, because I'm like, I was never pitched that plan, and that's not what I signed up for. I wanted the spaceships and rejuvenation chamber. I'm going to go, that's all good for me, but this fighting for crumbs, no, I don't want to be fighting for crumbs. It doesn't sound fun.

The truth was, I was still traveling quite a lot at that time, and I'd be over in London or Paris or Milan or Barcelona or somewhere, Wonderful. And I'm looking around and I'm going, economies aren't collapsing. You know, there's not these storms and tidal waves and everything. That's not happening. There's no way this is all going down,

the way Freddie had talked about it. So naturally, Hoyt would return to North Carolina and share his new observations with fellow members of eternal values. And boy, did I get crushed. And I was basically, you know, hailed as a blasphemer or a heretic of sorts. And so then it, It's like, oh, we're losing, oh, wait. We got to literally quarantine him to help save himself.

And that's where, like, oh, to save him from himself, we have to keep him here. We have to re-indocrinate him. Fucking motherfucker. And they shaved my head, so I couldn't model anymore. And I had to be, I had to stay up in the garage. And we kept the dogs up there. So I like to say, I was literally and figuratively moved into the doghouse. And where was he sleeping again?

I was on the floor on a mat. What did your agents think? Like you were working like a madman, and now you have a bald head and you're not? I had to send a Polaroid with my bald head to say, listen, and the way I spinoctored it, I said, listen, I've become a workaholic. I can't say no to any job. I haven't taken a vacation in 15 years, which is true. And I said, always find a reason to go.

And so I said, I cut all my hair off so I can't do it. It's forcing me to take a break. And they were all like, what? They didn't know what was going on, but they were like, something's up. My traveling privileges have been revoked, and, you know, I was quarantined to the house. And I had to be the first one up and the last one in the bed, do every type of labor that no one else wanted to do. And I was supposed to handle it with.

this wonderful, grateful attitude of being able to assist in whatever way I could to the great cause. I looked like I was a convict. You know, I'm thinking to myself, if I had hair, I could be in, like, Rome right now, probably shooting an ad with Cindy Crawford and making 25Gs and maybe even kissing her right now. Like I would rather be there than scrubbing the toilet right now. So I guess I'm not really spiritual. Why all the abuse aimed at the only one keeping the group afloat makes no sense? Well, you're forgetting one key ingredient that was missing.

Freddy. He knew how to work me very well and keep me in his graces. And I kind of liked being the Golden Goose on some level. Now, the downside of that was, as you can imagine, it built up a lot of resentment with the other group members. And by the time, Freddie died, and the group was left with people, you know, there were a lot of resentment coming my way, and I got the brunt of a lot of that.

It's like the evil step sisters with Cinderella. I would face one of these hot seats every night, and that they would just attack me for that behavior and saying how I was just being an ecomaniac. I thought it was better than everyone, and that would go on anywhere from two hours, and sometimes it would be 10 or 12 hours, and I would literally just go catatonic,

and I would beg them to stop, and beg and just tell me what to do. And that happened every night for almost nine weeks. Also, on several occasions, this guy, David Seaman, used to get right in my face and say, you know, I just wish you weren't such a pussy, and you had the strength to kill yourself, and do what's right, and take us out of having to deal with your awfulness every day. If you could just liberate all of us from you, that would be a good thing. But you're just too much of a pussy. You won't do it.

Nice, right? But the dogma of eternal values was ingrained so deeply at this point that Hoyt couldn't see what was actually happening to him. And it wasn't from the mentality of thinking they're being abusive. It was like, no, and you know, they're the truth seekers. They're actually able to live this life that I'm not clearly able up to the challenge. That twisted mentality kept me saying like, I just, I'm not going to be that guy. I'm not going to be the guy that didn't step up. It was always me.

Always me. I was the problem. And I felt like such a failure. And I hated them being so angry with me all the time. And I just, I didn't want to deal with it anymore. I said, I just got to go. I can't be here. So one day, he musters up the courage to sneak out of the doghouse.

He takes a car. He drives to the airport and he hops on a flight to New York City. He's finally free, leaving his more spiritually fit fellows behind. Fuckers? I'd escaped up to New York and then I thought, well, they wouldn't think I'm stupid enough to go back to my apartment,

but I had nothing, you know. So I figured I'll just spend it a night or two in the apartment and get my stuff together and then I'll head out to California, whatever. But Hoyt was mistaken because three group members had followed him to New York. And they descended on me and caught me in the apartment and I was like, motherfucker.

One of the guys actually said, slept in the doorway to make sure I couldn't leave the apartment. And I have a fourth floor apartment in New York. And I remember looking out the window and looking at the cars below. And I go, I might break my legs, but I think I'd live. Maybe I should just jump. And I really thought about it, you know, but I'd chicken down. So then I went back to North Carolina and they flew back with me, you know, if they took me back.

It was like a spiritual kidnapping. a term we just coined. Thing? They simultaneously made me sign a promissory note for $265,000 that if I did leave, I would become doable immediately. And sign it, he did. So after striking it big as a model and a businessman, are there any mountains left for Hoyt to conquer?

There is one more mountain for Hoyt to conquer, quite literally. Coming up. This episode is. sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, on this podcast, we've been known to make jokes. According to some people. Humor can be healing. It's how we and our guests often deal with trauma. But perhaps an even healthier way to deal with trauma is with an actual licensed therapist. A common refrain we often hear from many of our guests is that they were able to leave their cultic experience behind with the help of therapy. Therapy has helped many guests to take back their power. Recognize the patterns

they continue to repeat in their lives. And find their voice. voice again. But therapy isn't just for those who were in a cult. No, if you need help cultivating good coping skills. Or learning how to deal with difficult co-workers. Or podcast hosts. Wait, what? I love you, Tyler. So if you, dear listener, are thinking of starting therapy, it's never been easier than with better help. You simply fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched to a licensed therapist. And it's entirely online. You don't even have to brush your teeth. Convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Look, if it wasn't for therapy, I would have never found out what a covert narcissist is. Did you know that narcissist can be covert?

Seems like both Liz and I have benefited from seeing therapists and encourage you to try it as well with BetterHelp. In fact, let's wrap this up. I'm late for therapy right now. Discover your potential with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash in a cult today to get 10% off of your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P-com, slash. in a cult. So Hoyt had had a taste of freedom, but it was small. Kind of like half an appetizer. Like John Dillinger after that first prison break. John Dillinger, born June 22nd, 1903, he was known as America's most notorious gangster. He was accused of robbing 24 banks and three police stations. Not right now, not the time. Not right now. Fine. I'll read it to myself. But like Dillinger,

Hoyt had left the compound only to be dragged right back. And when he got there, A deal was struck. What this guy David had said to me was, listen, you don't think the pole shift's coming. If we get to New Year and nothing happens, we'll pack your bags and you can leave. So I'm like, all right, I guess that sounds reasonable. But Cinderella wasn't going to a ball anytime soon. Hoyt was still living in the doghouse, scrubbing toilets with a toothbrush, and getting burned in the hot seat on the regular. Two months into that, I'm like, I can't.

I can take this. I can't, you know, I can't, I can't, I can't do it. I can't do it. No way you're going to make a six months. So I started to plan. Similar to John Dillinger, prison wasn't for him. You know, Dillinger once escaped prison by carving a gun out of soap and he painted it with black shoe polish. To yourself, Tyler. To yourself. Fine. Good boy. But since Hoyt escaped by car the first time, the group wised up and had taken away his driving privileges. And cut off all communications.

with the outside world. We had a phone system, and every time I'd pick up the phone in the office where I would live, the light would go on on every other phone in the house. So I couldn't call a cab or anything like that. So I figured out the Vax machine also had a phone on it, but it didn't light up the system. So I'm like, aha.

When I finally planned, and just poetically, I did it on July 4th, Independence Day. I'm like, I am going. this time, I am going. So at the Crackaddon, I had called the cab and had it meet me at like 4 a.m. and I had the dogs in the doghouse right there. So as I'm escaping, I'm trying to keep the dogs quiet because I don't want them to start barking.

And then the whole driveway was gravel, so it kind of cracks. I'm literally like scavenging it, trying to keep minimum sound. And then I get the precipice, and I had to go down the mountain. It's about a mile and a half down the road to get to the place where the cab's going to meet me. But it's a decent drop, and it's dark as hell. Then I just started to run. And, you know, it's like when you're running, you think someone's maybe, you know, you start hearing things. You're like, someone's coming after.

But I bolted, and I got in the cabin. It was like a prison break. And then I did not go back to my apartment. And I stayed into Howard Johnson's. for like five days, and then I went to a friend's place in Brooklyn. And the guy, one of the guys I'd gone to college with who was in the cult, knew that I probably go there. So he actually comes to that apartment.

But the guy I went to go see was also on the football team, was one of the linemen. He's a big dude. He goes down to see this guy Rick Coley, and he's like, Rick, leave. And Rick's like, no, I just want to talk to me. He's like, no, Rick, leave. I don't want to force you. Because I will. Just leave him alone. He's done. And the moral of that story is, don't judge a fax machine by its cover.

Did you know that the fax machine was invented? Not the time, Tyler. I'm just kidding, Liz. I actually have no idea when the fax machine was invented. But I do. It was 1964. But it was 1843 that Alexander Bain invented the electric printing telegraph. You happy? Happy as a fax machine in 1997, Liz. Thank you. So Hoyt

He was finally free from eternal values Should have been named eternal abuse So how does one celebrate the leaving of a cult What do you do? Rip a line off Andy Warholz and Antucket Shockingly it's a bit more tame than that Liz The thought that went through my mind Was I've always loved movies

And I thought, you know, I could go to the movie theater And I watched four or five movies right now And no one can stop me So wait, I don't have to answer anybody If I can do something just stupid like that And no one's going to know And no one has, I don't have to talk I was like, oh boy, this sounds like a whole new chapter for me

Aside from the failed intervention, It had been over 10 years Since Hoyt had spoken to his family In any meaningful way But where else was he going to go at this point? I went up and spent like 10 days with my parents in Nantucket I was going places where I thought

people would not ask me too many questions because I knew my parents would be too terrified too and they've got notes that they'd written you know, we think he's out. You know, we're not sure we're not going to ask him, but we think he's out. But it wasn't until almost two years later where I finally had a conversation with them

because I was terrified. I was embarrassed. I was shameful. Even though he was in the safety of his family's home, he still feared the group members finding him. So he tried to put as much land between me and them. And then he thought of someone, and you're not going to believe who? Fabio. He'd always had this open-door policy.

He'd always have this open-door policy. I'd say, oh, it's any time you want to come to live, you stay with me, you know. I lived with Fabio for a year, and he was amazing. Because, you know, there was very few places I could go where I thought someone would just be okay with me being there and not ask too many questions. And, you know, I love Fabio. He's just as solid as they come. He's incredibly loyal, very generous, just super kind, natured guy. It's really interesting when you hear Fabio's take on it because, he goes, Hoyt showed off my door. And I just, he goes, I knew immediately something terrible. He was like a shadow of the guy I knew.

When he showed up, I can tell there was something major wrong with him. People started down the press. It was, it was a mess. I mean, you can tell. It was like a bit up dark. I knew one day that will come. I knew sooner or later, you know, they're going to take him to the cleaner. Yep, that is the voice of the real Fabio.

We wanted this episode to be fabulous, not Fabio-less. You know, he told me, so I thought, you know, I really need to talk to you. And, you know, I'm like, tickling out my bank account. I have no money. I have no place to go. I was like, hi, you're one of my best friend. Of course you can stay here. I can stay here as long as you want.

You know, it's like, I just going to help you, you know, to get back on your feet. I'm very successful. I'm working all the time making tons of money. I got full-time a skipper. So, you know, it's like if you need your laundry, if you need them, you know, I even pay his phone bills. I mean, everything. You know, make sure there's always food in the house. All women over 55 are drooling right now.

We are hoping this episode draws in an entirely new demographic. Hey, 20 and 30-somethings. send this episode to your mom and then let us know you did. Don't worry, listeners. There is much more Fabio at the end of the episode. Because I've learned in life that when someone's gone through something bad, it's best to leave them be and give them a safe space. And when they're ready, they'll come and talk to you.

Yeah, because, you know, sometime when you go through trauma, it's better the person to open up and tell you about it. It's not your business trying to go and be curious. So I was always, hey, we're just going to go out there and have some fun like the old days. Nothing's changed. And if you want to talk, we talk. If you don't want to talk about it, I don't care. And he gave me a safe space for almost a year.

I never tried to dig that stuff up because I wasn't ready to process. I was going through PTSD. I was not ready to talk and didn't even know what I'd been in. Didn't know what I had gone through. And I was so convinced it was just my fault. I tell people all the time, I say, as shitty as cult life was, the aftermath was so much harder. Trying to make sense of it, trying to come to grips with it, come to terms with it. I mean, I remember having some trepidation because I hadn't figured out it was a cult yet.

At that point, my belief was waning dramatically, but I still didn't know. Yeah, I still didn't know. And all it could have taken was like a couple big hurricanes or massive earthquakes that may bring me right back on. like, oh my God, maybe I was wrong. So if he was going to find out if this group was all bullshit or not, he would go back to the place where it all began. I went to Studio 54 for a party on New Year's Eve and went from 99 to 2000.

So I was back in Studio 54. And I'm like, if something happens, I might as well be there. Eminem was there that night. If the world's going to end, I want to be where Eminem is too. And as the clock turned mid-month. night. But there was no bang. There was no end. He was still standing there with the disco lights and body sweat. And yeah, I just remember being uneasy, but also relieved when nothing happened. So all that prep for a world that didn't end. And now what do you do when everything you've been told

is a big fucking lie? For Hoyt, he reconnected with a friend who had also left the group. And they started deconstructing the events that had occurred within eternal values. And he had heard people refer to the group as a cult, but not convinced he thought perhaps that he should investigate this concept. Cult. Yeah, I had ordered this book called Combating Cult Mind Control. It's a story about Steve Hassan, you know, who wrote it, I had been in the Moonies, how he had been indoctrinated. My approach for even looking at the cult material was like, listen, I know I was not in a cult.

Like someone like me does not join a cult like that. I would never join a cult. Like, that's how close-minded I was. But then after six months, I'm like, well, let me at least look into what cults are because clearly people think that, and maybe it'll lead me to what it actually was. At least I can cross the cult box and say it wasn't that if I do some research. And, of course, I do, I just start my research and immediately figure out I've been into golf. And it was also demoralizing that I, you know, I'd so convinced myself that I was in this special situation,

that no one would ever understand. And then I'm reading the book, I'm like, nope, actually that's all bullshit. You've been in a cult. Not even a very particularly strange cult, pretty standard cult, and you're just standard cult member who's now dealing with the fact that that's the truth. And then I spent a few months just calling the guys in North Carolina and ripping them, like, you're all in a fucking cold, you're all brainwashed. You're living in a house I paid for you.

You got businesses and I pay for it. I'm coming down. I'm going to burn it all the grass. Just literally vent. all this pent-up anger it had for decades. And I knew I was in some way behaving, like the group said, you would behave if you leave. So I was now someone that's possessed by the dark forces,

and I'm screaming at them. So it's falling on deaf ears, but it was incredibly liberating and healing for me to tow off and just tell them all to fuck off. But eventually, I had no money. My modeling career had basically dried up overnight because moving to L.A. is like moving to Fiji. And I just, you know, I couldn't move back to New York. It was too triggering.

You know, I had so many bad experiences there. And then I thought about going to Europe. But all of it was going to cost money that I didn't really feel secure yet, you know, that I would be able to pull off. And so I thought about, you know, well, maybe I'll just sue these guys. And then I was like, oh, that's going to cost money. But he discovered that the crew was running love. on money. Because once I stopped making the money, they had no way to pay bills and things started

to stack up for them, you know. And so they started having some hardships. And then they decided they were going to sell the lakehouse. And I was like, those motherfuckers are not selling it without, you know, that money should be coming to me. And because I thought they're just going to hightail it out of town. So once I knew it was on the market, that's when I got this great lawyer Jim Bowen came in and brought a RICO case against them racketeering.

And it was so obvious. They had like 36 corporations that kept shuffling all sorts of shell games going on. And they were just doing all sorts of mischief. And I knew where a lot of the bodies were, you know, not all of them, but I knew a lot. And I knew none of them had paid taxes for the last 15 years. And so I was going for blood. And then the lawyers like, listen, I really recommend, unless you want this to be your life in the next three years, let's try to mediate. So I was kind of like, I guess I guess that's what we have to do.

And then I watched them all under oath, lie and lie and lie. And that was an interesting experience because I remember thinking three years ago, and that would be me. But I was just so grateful to be on my side of the table and not there. I'm like, Jesus. It was a great kind of reference point to seeing how far I'd come just in the three years. And after weeks of mediation, Hoyt won and was awarded a sizable settlement, which essentially shut down the group. Time for Cinderella to go to the fucking ball, or at least be able to afford the dress.

I couldn't take all their businesses and stuff, but any of their resources. And then, you know, all their businesses blew up. They all moved out of the area. there's no one even lives there anymore. And that's when I was at least able to kind of start my life with the new perspective, just knowing that if nothing else, those guys weren't going to be out there doing the stuff they were doing. Chao Bella. For many of us, learning a second language in high school or college wasn't exactly a high point in our academic careers.

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Arrivedici! So, after 20 years of being in eternal values from age 16 to 36, and giving the millions of dollars along the way, Hoyt was finally free, physically and mentally. And he had just recovered a large sum of money in the lawsuit. But you don't have to be a cult leader to be a con artist. And then quickly lost the money that I made in the suit. Because I didn't know anything about investing or anything. You know, I gave it to some real estate person who said, oh, I can double your money

in six months and it was all scam. And, you know, I just had no discretion, nothing, no real estate. street smarts. That's when it started, their recovery, and that's ultimately led me back to my family. I had that first year and a half where I wasn't spending too much time with the family. Then after I figured it out, I started to reconnect with them. And then the way it played out was my mother was dying of cancer.

And so she kind of needed like a full-time nurse. All my siblings all had families and dealing with. with all the chaos that comes along with the family. And so I said, let me do this. So I was her primary caretaker for the last six, nine months of her life, whatever it was. Being in the position of the caretaker, and in essence, parenting my parent, was very healing. That was kind of an important step for me to say, yes, I'm doing it for my mother, of course, but I'm also doing it for me, because that's the kind of person I want to be.

And that person's not an asshole. I have my moments. Today, Hoyt is able to freely talk about his life in the cult, and in the healing has found silver linings. Being in the business I'd been in for 15 years, traveling around the world, being around where people abuse drugs and all sorts of things. Like, I kept pretty clean because I was involved in this group.

Like, you know, if I was at some place, like, oh, we're going to McDonald's for the weekend down and, you know, a beast that she's got someplace. I just couldn't do that. I had to run that by the group, and I know they'd be like, what the fuck you doing going there? That's like satanic.

So it kept me out of trouble. You know, there's all sorts of things. I can look back on it go, man, that would have been fun to go to have a gun. So I don't know. Kind of crazy. There's still time, Hoyt. Stranger things have happened.

I tripped at a party and fell into Ariana Grande's lap, so you never know. Today, Hoyt enjoys living a modest life. I don't need the big car. in the big house. Listen, for me, it's making impact on people and feeling loved and being a, to be in relationships where I can show my love to those people.

One of the things people ask after big life events happen is, why? Why did I get fired? Why did my aunt pass away? Why did I end up in a cult? I feel like the one prayer that I kept asking for us, you know, is God, just please make this make sense for me some way. And I feel like I have that.

now. And so now I just tried to, with that point of view, like Shakespeare says, be true to thyself. This quotation comes from Act 3, Scene 3 of Hamlet, in which a man named Polonius reprimands his son Laertes for being at home instead of on board a ship that is set to carry him to France. You know I can't stop him, guys. Polonius says, this above all, to thine own self, be true, and it must follow as the night, the day, thou canst not then be false to any man. Farewell, my blessing season this in thee. To which Lerite's replies, most humbly, do I take my leave, my lord. And Lord H, do take your leave, for you are doing the work.

Thank you, Hoyt, for telling your story with such grace, poise, and openness. It's not easy to share in this way, and we are humbled by your bravery. Hoyt currently lives in Los Angeles, but sorry, ladies, he's taken. He's still occasionally models, and not long after the cult, he found a new creative outlet as well. I started to reinvent myself as an actor, and that was incredibly healing. I'd go to, I'd be an acting class, and I'd do some really kind of dark, Demented character and people are like, dude, where the fuck did that come from? And I'm like, it's a long story.

Three episodes long, in fact. And we love you for it, Hoyt. Today, Hoyt mostly writes and produces films. And he's currently involved in a very cool project that we can't really talk about, but when it comes out, you will know. He also has a podcast in which he interviews people who were in cults called What the Flok. It's one word, guys. What the flock. Check it out to hear more of his tantalizing voice.

We also have provided a link in the show notes. And today, well, Hoyt's been able to leave his cold life behind. Well, for the most part. I've got a king-sized bed, and I basically sleep like I'm in a coffin. I barely use the bed. When you're sleeping on the floor with very little cushion, any turn on your hips, it's not a very comfortable thing. So I literally just sleep on my back with my hand.

at my chest. Like a corpse. Yeah, like a corpse. A very good-looking corpse, that is. Okay, that's our show. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We forgot something. One final, very important question.

Okay. Did you ever have sex with Cindy Crawford? In my mind, so many times. Yeah, I do have a few regrets in my life. Cindy and I were actually, you know, friends. And I'd still consider her as friends. I haven't seen her in a long time, but I would be lying if I didn't say I had a crush on her. You're amazing. Thank you.

It was fun. It's good to see you. Here's to moving forward. Here's to moving forward. One step after another. Correct. I guess you're not going to ask me if I ever had sex with Cindy Crawford, are you, Liz? I was going to ask you if you ever had sex with Hoyt. In my mind, so many times. Yeah.

All right, that's it. See you guys. See you guys. Here you guys next week. Where we have another great episode, a poetic story of a woman in an extreme religious cult. Yeah, the worshiping would get very intense. People would fall out in the spirit onto the floor. And if you were a woman and you fell out in the spirit, one of the sisters in the church would come with,

what we called a lapkin. Okay, folks, as promised, here's a little bit more of our fabulous Fabio interview. It's Fabioless. No, it's with Fabio, so it's not Fabioless. It's Fabulous. Fabulous. You had left the Catholic Church at this point?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was like, you know, of course, you know, it's like when you grew up in Italy, you know, it's all as Catholic Church and everywhere, a coffee school and priest and so on. But I never got along. I always saw from the beginning, there was a lot of, hypocrisy and I saw things, then I go like, you know, these people, they're a bunch of hypocrites. I mean, don't get me wrong. There are some good priests, but at the highest level of the clergy, they are all, they're connected to the mafia, they are, you know, I saw

so many things when I was a kid. So already eight, nine years old, I'm telling the priest you an hypocrite, you know, God didn't choose you, you choose, you know, you choose, you know, to represent God, but, you know, you don't live it, you know, and I'm supposed to respect you because you wear that costume, the custom doesn't make the monk. They used to tell all the kids, I was the son of the devil, I was the Antichrist, because, you know, it's like, I was like point the figure out of them and tell they were hypocrites. All the parents, I remember when the parents used to come and talk to the priest,

they were look at me like, you know, I was like, oh, my guys, that's the, that's the Antichrist, you know. And I was like, fuck you guys. You know, it's like, I didn't give it shit. You know, it was from one ear out of the other. You know, I could have care less. He did talk about his childhood, but he also discussed the height of his modeling career, which is fucking bonkers. Yeah, like people, you know, they want to act and they want to model and they love what they do.

I was the type of person, just give me the money. It's like, you know, I was honest, just give me the money and that's it. There was a time, you know, back then in 90s where, I mean, people were throw any type of money on me to do. get me involved. You know, so it was crazy. I mean, I mean, I work, I make money, and I spend money. And then I work again, and I spend more money. I remember one time I went out and I bought in one day one and a half million dollars in

cars. And people are like, funny, you spend one and a half million dollars in cars. And I say, yeah, that's one day work. So it's not a big deal. I have a beautiful life. I've been very blessed. And I thank God every day for that. Listeners, we really had a great interview with Fabio.

It was a blast. We talked about Hoyt, about his finances, his book covers. Yeah, his album. And you guys won't believe how much money he makes every time he says, I can't believe it's not butter on television. It's crazy. Can't believe it's not butter. He also has some great tips on Italian olive oil.

That he does. And you can get all of that if you sign up for our Patreon page. You can hear the entire hour-long interview. and see some video. Plus, guess what? We got a few romance books with his picture on the cover and he signed them for us.

He sure did. And if you contribute on our Patreon during the month of March, we will choose winners randomly and send them a copy, yes, of a signed Fabio romance book. My favorite is Warriors Woman. The plot's a bit weak,

but the cover is strong. Oh, the cover gets it done, Tyler. The cover gets it done. There's some good stuff in the inside, I will say. There's some tantalizing, titillating. Read it alone, guys. The cover is worth a thousand words. So, guys, please become part of our Patreon cult, where you'll get great bonus content.

And a chance to win fabulous prizes. He means fabulous, fabulous prizes. And by the way, true story, all proceeds go into the production of making our show. You can find our Patreon at patreon.com slash was I in a cult or through our website. site was I an occult.com. Was I an occult is written, produced, and hosted by Tyler Meesam, the Fabio wannabe. And Liz Iacuzzi, who can't believe I'm not Fabio. Produced and edited by the niece of the biggest Fabio fan, Kristen Vermilia.

Score and Mix by Rob Pera. Additional editing support by Emily Carr. The Fabio interview was recorded at Splice Studios in Los Angeles. You see, I don't want to lose. This is the end. The end. I just said that. No, you said it, Liz.

You always have to get the last word in, don't you? What did you say? The last word. You always have to get the last word in, Liz. I don't know what you're talking about. You got the last word. You want me to say last word? No, I don't want you to say anything.

Last word. Damn it.