Was I In A Cult? - From a Book Cult to The Weigh Down Cult: “Oops, I Joined Another Cult!”

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Today’s guest thought she was just signing up for a summer job. And then, years later, she thought she was just joining a church. What she got instead? Cults. TWO OF THEM.Meet Aydrea ��� writer, stepmom, and lover of rules. In college, she joined a company that promised purpose, leadership, and a paycheck. Instead, she got cold showers, commission-only “training,” and a summer knocking on strangers' doors… while carrying 40 pounds of encyclopedias.But plot twist: just when she thought she’d moved on, community came calling again. This time through a church weight loss group, …where Diet Mountain Dew became her spiritual practice, and hunger was a sign of holiness.Funny, sharp, and disarmingly honest, Aydrea shares what it’s like to look back and realize oh, cool cool… I joined TWO cults. And maybe more importantly, how the craving for belonging can sneak us into places we never meant to be.LINKS:LIVE SHOW! April 25th at Napa Valley Streaming Fest — with special guest Moses Storm. Info & tickets: napavalleystreamingfest.comFollow Aydrea: Tiktok @disappointingmyancestorsFollow us for more culty content: insta/tiktok — @wasiinacultSupport the show: If Was I in a Cult? has impacted you, please rate and review—it really helps more people find us! And consider joining our Patreon for ad-free episodes and more.Have a story of your own? We’d love to hear it. Reach out to: [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Please note this episode discusses carrying heavy books that one should never be forced to carry in their life. Please listen accordingly. Thank you. I don't mind a hierarchy. I like rules. I like knowing what to do. And that has led me into a couple of situations that were very culty. One involved selling educational products in small town USA,

and one was a more sort of traditional religious based cult-like experience. Welcome everyone to Was I in a Cult? This show featuring badass individuals who survived, well obviously cults. I'm Liz Iacuzzi. And I'm Tyler Meesom. And holy moly guys, this Friday we are doing our first ever live show at the Napa Valley Stream Fest in downtown beautiful Napa, California.

And if you happen to be lucky enough to get yourself to Napa this weekend, it is guaranteed to be a great time. I shouldn't make that guarantee, but it should be fun. We are in the Friday morning binge block, because who wants to hear about cults on a Friday morning? I do. We do. We do. It's April 25th at 11 a.m. Come see us make fun of each other in the flesh. Special guest is Moses Storm. If you've never seen Moses, he is wildly funny, much funnier than Tyler.

Visit! I'll go with that. I don't disagree. But can he make a documentary? We are very excited to have Moses as our guest. Check out his special trash white ahead of time if you're interested. NapaValleyStreamFest.com, check it out. And if you can't make it, well, sorry, you're not worthy, I guess, and you won't

get that ticket to heaven. Yeah, nor will the stairway to heaven be open to you. But I mean, you can keep giving us your money. They don't give us their money, Tyler. This is free for them to listen to. Right. Right. And they skip the ads too. So, all right. We are the worst cult leaders ever. We are the worst cult leaders of all time. So we are. Okay, speaking of divine intervention,

today's guest is a true gem. She is, she's a writer, and so she is an incredible storyteller, and we actually had a lot in common. We bonded over being stepmothers, and then mid-interview, after telling me this wild book selling cult story, she casually goes, oh yeah, and then later I was in the way down and I was like, wait,

you were in two cults? And she was like, well, yeah, I guess I was. Nice. Yeah, a sequel within a sequel, a twist. We love a surprise sequel. Does she see dead people? I'm not going to give away, I'm not going to give everything away, Tyler. Let's shut up and let her talk. Please welcome today's hilarious guest. My name is Adria. I grew up in Corpus Christi, Texas, on the water. The Selena statue is there. They shot Heathers there. Apologies to any Corpus Christians listening. I believe

those are the only two notable things about Corpus Christians listening. I believe those are the only two notable things about Corpus Christi. I think it would be described as a good place to raise a family. But I was like, I'm gonna go. Also, Whataburger was founded there in 1950. But we can move on. Self-refrain looks good on you, Tyler. frame looks good on you, Tyler. I'm an only child, just me, two parents. They are southern black people. I'm also black for people listening. I think a pretty traditional family structure for most of my childhood. We were a religious family, which primed me for other high control groups. We were Southern Baptists,

and we were at church a lot, three to four days a week. This was like a black church where the services were three to four hours long. I did not love being there. LESLIE KENDRICK And no, this is not the cult. TAMARA KENDRICK Lots of rules, lots of laws. You know, I remember being told from the pulpit that if we even masturbated, that it was the same as being a rapist, like anything was bad, horrible, horrible bad. We also did the True Love Waits program, which is this program in the 90s that it was all about teaching children to not have sex until they were married. And it was distributed through churches and church youth groups and

things like that. And what they did was they had children sign contracts with their families promising that they would not have sex until their parents walked them down the aisle on their very heteronormative wedding day. But we had this ceremony where our parents walked us down the aisle of the church in a pretend wedding. I was 14. I barely had a period, like, signed a contract. But it did make having sex as an adult for the first time very confusing.

I truly believed that I was going to be struck down. Like, I was in my early 20s by then and I was like, I don't know, I might die today, but I want to have sex. So I guess we'll see what happens. You sure this isn't the cult? I don't know. Pretty sure. I had very strict parents as well. Education was first and foremost. Fun did not matter. Just achieve, succeed, be good, be right, be safe. And I have to understand that my parents grew up poor and black in the rural South. And so their experience of growing up in the world was super intense. Like, there wasn't a lot of room for fun and play. Their lives were in danger. I had a very cushy life, comparatively,

and I was like not close to my parents at all. I think my parents did the absolute best they could with the tools that they had. There was a lot of anger, a lot of super strict discipline that wasn't conducive to building closeness or any sort of emotional intimacy. And yeah, so I was very alone as a child. I had like one friend in the church. I was not popular. I wasn't popular anywhere. I wasn't popular at school. Also because of my strict parents, wasn't allowed to engage with pop culture. So the only music I knew was like oldies and theater music. So all the other kids would like be talking about artists and songs and concerts and stuff. And I'd be like, I don't know, have you heard cats? And that did not go over very well either.

I think what really started to change for me was when I was early mid-twenties and actually finally read the Bible for the first time and was like, oh, Jesus is like way nicer than anyone has ever been to me inside of these institutions. And so I just started to kind of reorganize my understanding of those institutions at that time. So I wasn't able to leave until I went to college. I went to the University of Texas in Austin. Go Longhorns! Hook em horns! It's hard for me to cheer for teams I hate, but I will for the sake of the show. I studied journalism and I was excited to take more and bigger classes. And being smart was something that

was really important to me, but I was very ugly when I was a kid. I was an ugly kid. I'm doing fine now. I'm very happy with how it all turned out, but I was never going to get complimented on my looks as a kid. I was not going to get complimented on being cool. The only sort of compliments I could extract was from academic stuff. It was a way for me to gain favor with teachers. So all that to say that I really like being considered smart, which was the gateway into joining this first cult because someone approached me on campus and said, hey, your professors have told us that you're one of the smartest kids in class." I was like, I'm in whatever follows next. I'm happy to be here. And that's when she was like,

there's this program for super, super smart kids like you. Do you want to hear more about it? And I was like, absolutely. Sign me up. Do you want to come to this thing? I was like, yes. And she's, okay, here's the date and time. So then one evening, I go to this thing, a room full of a bunch of other nerds. They were just probably 23, 24, something like that. But they bring us into this room and they spend an hour just hyping us up with compliments. They're just like, you all are all here because you're super smart. You're going to be leaders. You're going to change the world. Who wants to change the world? Like it was just that for an hour.

No information, no specifics, just hyping us up. We're all like hungry. They fed us. We're all like hungry, poor college students who are just like, oh, we need attention. Ooh, I'm excited. How are these groups of super smart young college kids going to change the world, I ask you? And then finally at the end, they're like, you're going to be selling books door to door for commission only. OK, see you next week.

Bye. Oh, wait, wait, wait, books. I love me some books. A change in the world by selling books door to door? Life altering world dominating book salesperson. life-altering, world-dominating book salesperson. And we're all just like, okay. We're just so hyped up on energy and praise that we're like, that sounds fine.

It was all of this programming. They pitched it as this high-achieving thing, which I loved winning. I loved awards. I loved that kind of thing. And had I ever sold anything? No. But they were like, we're gonna train you. It's fine.

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That's 1-800-FLOWERS.COM-SLASH-CULT. Trust me, Mom will thank you. You know that classic exchange where someone asks, hey, how you doing? And without thinking, you say, I'm good. You? Yeah, I've said I'm good with a full eye twitch and my brain on fire far too many times. Not just a metaphor, literally on fire.

I've done the same thing, but lately when I say it, Liz, by God, I mean it. And part of that is because of Headspace. Headspace, we love Headspace, you guys. It is an incredible app that has helped over 100 million people with their mental health and wellbeing, including us. It's guided meditations. They have mindfulness exercises, breathing tools, sleep support,

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So book domination is slowly happening and Adria is in. The subsequent meetings were a little bit about strategy, like here's how you sell, but a lot of it about like that thing that these groups do where they're like, oh tell us more about you. Like why are you here? And like, yeah like people didn't believe in me and they're like, well I believe in you. Like, why are you here? And like, yeah, like people didn't believe in me. And they're like, well, I believe in you. So let's sell some books. How about it? Yes, let's do this. I'm in. I'm inspired. I want to sell some books now. But Real Talk, what the hell is actually going on with this whole thing? Oh, you'll find out. Tell us. They were called the Southwestern Book Company. They sold educational resource

books. So this was in the late 90s where people still had like home encyclopedia sets. So these books, they were a reference set and the set was designed to take kids from basically kindergarten through 12th grade in these one books. And you could sell them one by one, but the kind of goal was to sell these four books as a unit. I remember the full set of books being one hundred and twenty dollars. Which is like two hundred and thirty by today's standards for some books. Right. Now, the Southwestern Company, now known as Southwestern Advantage. You mean Southwestern Taking Advantage.

Oh, look at that. Very nice. It has a storied history as one of America's oldest direct sales organizations. Founded in 1855 by Reverend James R. Graves. It feels like everyone in the 1800s was just a reverend, right? Right. It just feels like...

Reverend James R. Graves in Nashville, Tennessee, it began as a publisher of religious tracts and Bibles. Damn, 1855? You're talking about like when leeches were used to cure hemorrhoids? We're making our way back to that. And yet medicine has evolved. But this book company, well, it still remains. It's like the cockroach of cults.

This fucker just won't die. In 1868, the company pioneered the door-to-door sales model, training college students, also reverends, I guess, to spend their summers selling books. This approach became a hallmark of the company's operations. Southwestern, take an advantage, break it down. How does it all work? You met regularly with your like handler or whatever their real title was to continue hyping you up and telling you more and more how you're going to sell books door to door

and you're going to make commission. And the company while they claim that you could earn real money. That forever dangling financial carrot. You can make like $8,000, $10,000 over the course of the summer, which for me at the time was the most money I could imagine. Part of the fun was that they told us we were going to get to go to Nashville for our final training and then once we got to Nashville, that is when we would get our assignment. And it could be anywhere. It could be Alaska,

it could be New York, it could be Florida, it could be anywhere. Isn't that exciting? This is reminding me a bit of your story, Tyler. Oh, yeah. It's definitely giving Mormon mission vibes. Except with more books and less magic underwear. I don't know. Depends what kind of underwear she was wearing. mission vibes. Except with more books and less magic underwear. I don't know. Depends what kind of underwear she was wearing. I think I really am jealous of the magic underwear. No, you're actually not. I want a pair.

No, you're really not. They are not comfortable. I want to feel as unsexy as possible. That is my goal. They're far from magical, I assure you. The process was, I'm going to say two to three months of weekly get togethers to prep for going to Nashville. So yeah, so they were teaching us the basics of selling a little bit about

the product, how to get in someone's house. Because if you can get inside their house you're pretty definitely gonna sell something. So yes, again encouraging us relative children to get inside the homes of strangers, strangers homes. They taught us to like ring the doorbell then take several steps back and turn to the side so that you didn't appear intimidating. I feel like they even encourage us to like ask for a glass of water or something so you can like stay longer and I'm like I would never, I would never, you can't just take drinks from strangers homes.

They had us do this one exercise where it was like list 20 reasons why you're doing this and put that in the front of your notebook and reference it every day. So it was like, who are you doing this for? Who are you trying to prove something to? So I think mine were, I want to show these people in high school who didn't like me that I really am something. Or like, I want to show this person that I'm actually smart. I sell reference books now, Gina. What are you doing with your life? Bitch. I work at the Gap. I am smart, I am talented, and I am a bookseller. God damn it.

Should have just gone to therapy, really. They should have been conversations with a therapist. But instead, it was conversations with my handler. Because it was a little classroom presentation, I thrive in that environment and I was good at producing results for teachers. I could always impress my little handler. Mike was my main handler. He was probably young 20s, but he was very handsome. I have been boy crazy my whole life

and like he was this handsome guy who gave me so much attention. And because he was also my teacher, I kind of knew how to impress him, keep his attention, which felt amazing, but it's also very unhealthy. I kind of feel like Rob is our handler. Oh yeah, Rob is our handler, except he's not here to handle us. We've gone off the rails. This is off the deep end, it's because of you, but we are here to handle us. Yeah, we've gone off the rails off the deep ends because of you.

But we are trying to impress you, Rob. So I hope you like it. Editor's note. I'd be more impressed if you sold some of these encyclopedia sets that have been piling up in my living room. Look, I've crunched the numbers. Vinyl records and film camera sales have trended up in the last few years. You'd have to be a moron to not see how encyclopedia sets are going to be huge this year. Get to work. Stop your silly podcast and start knocking on doors.

But I loved going and I'm sure that the company hired really attractive people. When we got to Nashville and met the wider group, they were all super attractive. And so again, you take a bunch of like horny 18 year olds and stick them in what feels like camp take a bunch of horny 18-year-olds and stick them in what feels like camp with a bunch of really attractive counselors. I just want to impress Mike and see the country.

You know what? That makes complete sense to me. That's how I felt about my first improv teacher. But they get to see the country. Yeah! You know, that is exciting. A fully funded trip to the great wonders of the Americas. They do not pay for any of your transportation around the country. So it was me and these two other girls whose names I absolutely do not remember. But we were put in our little group, and one of us got access to a car. So we drove in this like caravan up to Nashville. And then

you go to what feels like a conference of a bunch of booksellers from all over. And that is when things started to get, wait, wait, what? But now we're in Nashville, we have really committed and we are away from our homes. And that was when they were like, we are not going to find you a place to stay in whatever city we're going to send you to. You have to figure that out. That was like, oh, and we're like, how do we do that? And they're like, do what we've trained you to do. Knock on people's doors. And it was like, oh, that seems weird. But they're like, we all did it. We would knock on the doors of churches. They'll know someone in their congregation who is looking for a lodger. And we're like, okey-doke. And then finally at the end, they

start announcing where you're going. They whip everybody up and they're like, you're going to Omaha! You're going to Mobile! You're going to Evansville, Indiana! We're like, oh my god! And it sounded really exciting. To me, I've never been to Indiana. I was like, amazing. Why not Evansville, Indiana? Why not Evansville? Yeah, I'll tell you why Evansville, Indiana, because Evansville ranks as the third largest city in Indiana, following Indianapolis and Fort Wayne, of course.

I mean, that's so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Also, unlike most of Indiana, which operates on Eastern Time, Evansville is situated in the Central Time Zone. What? Yeah, I know. This distinction dates back to a 1972 compromise when the U.S. Department of Transportation designated time zones for the state, Liz. Stop talking.

My mind is actually blowing. Yeah. I would never lie to you about Evansville. You want another? For the state, Liz! Stop talking, my mind is actually blowing! Yeah, yeah! My brain! I would never lie to you about Evansville, you want another? I need it, I need it! Give it to me! Okay, how about the West Side Nut Club Fall Festival? It's held annually in October! I love a Nut Club Fall Festival! I bet you do!

This week-long street festival attracts about 200,000 insanely lucky visitors. Attendees can enjoy a variety of foods, including a local specialty, fried brain sandwiches. They're made from battered and deep-fried pig brains, served on a bun! What? That's awesome! Sorry Nappa, I'm heading to Evansville. If you're going to Evansville, you gotta stop by Boss Field. It's the third oldest professional baseball stadium in the United States, still in regular use. Evansville, Evansville! Why not Evansville, you gotta stop by Boss Field. It's the third oldest professional baseball stadium in the

United States still in regular use. Evansville, Evansville, why not Evansville, Evansville, Evansville, why not Evansville? We're gonna get hate letters from Evansville. I love you, Evansville. I'm from Evanston. I feel a kinship. And then we drove up to Evansville, so very excited. And we kind of got to town and they were like, yeah, like start knocking on doors. And then, and then, but also the reality started to hit in for me when it was like, these are like real doors now. Oh, I don't, these aren't my friends acting.

This is like, this is kind of weird. The dress rehearsal was over and now it's actual strangers. She's asking for a glass of water. But wait, first these young away from home college girls need to find a safe place to stay. Hmm. The safest way. Knocking on random stranger's doors. One of the other girls I stayed with found this woman.

She had some beds in her basement and then we stayed in her basement. We found a place to stay. What a challenge that was that we rose to. This is certainly not a premise for a horror film. It's funny you say that because when she was telling me this story, all I could think about was Heretic. Yeah, the movie. Have you seen Heretic? I have, yeah.

Yeah, it's Mormon mission girls. But it worked for them because they found a stranger's home to sleep in. Now it's time for them to get on with the bookselling regiment. Go crush it, ladies. Oh, my gosh. OK, so one of the things they taught us was you do not take warm showers. That does not build character. So they taught us to take freezing cold showers every morning.

They wanted us up at 6 a.m. Take a freezing cold shower, review your 20 reasons why, review your educational materials about what you're going to say to people, and get ready to hit the ground at, like, 7.30. You thought the Olympics was hard? Well, this is the real fucking deal. Selling goddamn educational reference books and we're going to do it like the champions that we are. Let's go!

I'm pumped. I'm actually really, I'm ready to, this fist is ready to knock. We would get dropped off in different areas. And then yeah, you just try to find a densely populated area and then like wander around and then like make maps of the neighborhood. And they taught us like, see if you can spot signs of children. And if there's like toys in the yard, make a symbol on your map so you like know which houses to go to for sure. We just got to be very creepy to watch, again, a child with a giant bag like casing your neighborhood like, uh-huh, tricycle, beach ball, got it. How creepy! How stinking creepy! You're on your feet carrying 30, 40 pounds of books in the blazing hot sun,

and you're supposed to work from 8 a.m. till 9 p.m. You're hungry and just alone. It's like I would get lost. We don't have cell phones. This is 1998. Nobody knows where we are. We're doing this thing over and over again as the like slow panic started to set in. I might not sell any of these books. I don't like being here. Also, I'm not good at selling. Oh boy, this horror movie is writing itself. We joke, but this is very dangerous, guys.

If you're listening, don't do this. Beg people to stay in their house. Don't do anything. This is a cautionary tale. I don't remember anyone being outright cruel, but just sort of like, kind of a classic open, oh, not interested. Obviously a lot of no's, a lot of no answers. They did teach us little tricks.

If we got a quick no, they would teach us to just like keep talking to the door for a couple seconds so you're not like, oh, immediately. You're just training yourself to keep going. And so then there were, you know, some people that would kind of listen. They taught us how to overcome objections if someone's like, I don't want to buy these books. They're like, oh, people will tell you they can't afford it, But tell them about the payment plans and tell them they can give you some cash now and some cash later. And I'm like, it just was weird to be 18 years old, tried to convince potentially a, like, 33 year old single mother to part with $120. Like, that was like a weird vibe.

OK, just for those young listeners who aren't aware there was a time when the internet didn't exist Now that is a horror movie Actually, that's like a great movie that I would like a love story And so while we Gen Xers weren't thankfully speak for yourself I'm speaking for myself when you put me in there we so while me I am speaking for myself. When you put me in there, we, me. So while me, Gen Xer, weren't thankfully slaves to social media, we were without ready, quick access to information. And this is where the 32-set Encyclopedia Britannica would come in handy.

I mean, we had a set in our home when I was growing up. And say you wanted to know more about Indiana. I do. I do. Yeah. Well, you would just go to the bookshelf, you'd pull out volume 20 and look it up. Encyclopedias were very popular between the 70s and the 90s. Over 100,000 of these were sold every single year at an average cost of $1,800 per set. Wow, that's like $5,300 today. Yeah.

I mean, imagine spending five grand on a set of books. So when you had one of these sets in your home, it was kind of a status symbol. It was like getting the new cool appliance. She seemed to be selling the same status concept, but the much cheaper version of it. Now I can sort of recognize, oh, I was able to get inside homes where people were super lonely or maybe depressed or that kind of thing. But I remember getting inside some homes and I'm like,

oh, I shouldn't be in here. These people don't need me talking to them about books. They need some sort of other intervention that I certainly cannot provide. But I'm here to sell these books and like, I got to eat. So, and like the neighborhoods that I certainly cannot provide, but I'm here to sell these books and like I gotta eat, so. And like the neighborhoods that I would say were more underserved, it was easier to get cash. And I remember a woman gave me a lot of cash and I remember there were like bugs crawling on the door. And I remember just having such mixed feelings because

I was like, oh, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. I've sold these books. I've gotten this woman to give me cash also, which is like the best. And it's just a terrible feeling. But I was also super torn. Well, I'm not torn about being right back after these special ads read by special people. The youth mental health crisis is everywhere. And yeah, it's no mystery what's driving a lot of it. Social media. It's so true. Teens spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school. Nine hours, guys.

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Yeah, we really can't recommend this enough. Protecting your kids has never been easier for the best deals. Sign up to Gab today. No contract required at gab.com slash in a cult. That's gabb.com slash in a cult. gabb.com slash in a cult. We're back with Adria and she is knee deep in books. On a good day, you maybe get two sales in the morning, two or three in the afternoon and you feel amazing. It's kind of exciting and then you work until the sun goes down and then you go to meet

your friends and you're all like, oh my gosh, I sold five, I sold four. You're like happy. OK, now we joked earlier, but truly I can't help but notice that this book selling cult is very similar to my Mormon mission. For two years, I did the same thing between the ages of 19 to 21. I was waking up too damned early, knocking on doors, traipsing around a Midwestern city. I was in Kansas and Nebraska trying to convince people not just to buy books, but to buy an entire religion.

And a flawed one at that. Flawed is generous, Tyler. Also, we would have to report to our leaders every single night. How many doors knocked, how many yeses, how many nos. And much like Adria, we had to cover our own cost of living and expenses, and we only got paid in blessings. Did you have to take a cold shower upon wake? We didn't have to, but I was a horny 19-year-old who was not allowed to be alone with a girl,

so yeah, I took a lot of cold showers, Liz. What to de-escalate your forever erection? Yes. I don't know if you know what it's like to be a 19 year old boy. He and I, nobody needs to know this. You know, this also reminds me of the Kirby vacuum people who I didn't know anything about until literally two weeks ago. It was funny, it was like right after this interview, these Kirby vacuum people came

to our house and my husband stupidly let them in. And he's like, hi, oh yeah, I'm from Santa Barbara. I sell these Kirby vacuums. This is my wife. And she would just stand there creepily in the back like, ha ha ha. And like she didn't talk and they had these wide brim hats on. And he's like, oh yeah, I've been selling Kirby vacuums for 20 years and did it.

And like the sales tactics were bonkers. All of these sales tactics. Two hours later, he was still there. He was washing my carpets. I was like, we're not going to buy it. Just leave. Yeah, it takes you to kick him out. Adam's such a sweetheart.

He didn't dare. Until this day where he's like using the vacuum, he's like, you know, I do wish this was a Kirby vacuum. I'm sure they'd come back. I'm sure you could. You most certainly could get somebody to come back and sell you a vacuum. We would get paid commission only. We would send the credit card slips, checks, and any cash and send that in so they were

keeping track of how much money we had given them minus the cost of goods or whatever. And then at the end of the summer, we would get a final check for the balance of whatever money we were owed. Every Sunday, you had to report all of your numbers. How many doors did you knock on? How many no's? How many yeses? How many sales? How much money did you make? Obviously whoever made the most money was highly lauded, but you could also be lauded for just knocking on the most doors as well. And so you're just trying to keep your own stats up. You don't want to let Mike down. So probably about halfway through

the summer, I realized I am not good at selling books. I have sold precious few and it just didn't feel good anymore. I don't like being here. But she was committed at this point. And like most cults, leaving wasn't quite an easy option. God forbid someone leave the program during the summer because a few people did. It was like they just weren't strong enough. They just weren't capable enough. And that's too bad.

We know we still care about them, but you know, we actually don't at all. And so we'd have these meetings on Sundays and like any concerns that you had was just like, you're amazing. Just work harder. Da da da da. And then life started to happen for people. By this point, someone's father passed away. And then life started to happen for people by this point. Someone's father passed away. The guy did not go to the funeral. My grandmother died during the

summer. I did not go to her funeral. It was complex. My family barely knew where I was. I didn't know how to get to North Carolina. My family relationship was complicated. So it was kind of easy just to be like, no, I'm going to stay, which is insane. What an insane choice. That was when it really clicked for me. Like, oh, this is the bad place. This is not a good thing that I'm involved in. And so I just hung out in Evansville for the rest of the summer. After that, I was like, I'm just going to rack up a little bit of credit card debt and I'll deliver the books that I've sold. But I stopped. I just spent the rest of the like three or four weeks just chilling in Evansville, just hanging out. I went to parks, I went to the library a couple times. I was done, but I was also trapped.

Well, I sure hope she visited Evansville's famous Willard Library. Tell us all about it! It was established in 1885. Willard Library is Indiana's oldest public library and is reputedly haunted by the Grey Lady. It's a spectral figure that is believed to be the daughter of the library's founder. Can't get enough! Well, you can if you go to the encyclopedia for more information! for more information. So, Adria bided her time just waiting for that fat check she was told she was going to receive.

You can make like $8,000, $10,000 over the course of the summer. Right, right. At the end of the summer, I got a check for $1,200 after working 80 hours a week for two months. And then that was it. And then after the summer, everyone just kind of vanished. Like all of that, like we're, you know, a team and we're with you and you're so amazing. There's no follow-up, no community or debriefing. It was just like, okay, here's our track. Bye. And then they disappeared into the wind. You know, you want to belong to something you're like, oh, I really thought that these people cared about me. I thought that this was something that it wasn't. And

that was, yeah, a bummer. The lovely bait and switch tactic of all cults. And I get back to school. But like, at that point, the way I'm sure I dealt with everything, which was just like stuff it down and get on to the next thing. And, you know, when you spin the story for people to be like, oh, my gosh, crazy summer, I went to Evansville, I sold these books, it was so crazy. But like, you know, we're all a bunch of like ding-dongs at that age. Kind of hard to believe that Southwestern Advantage is still around. Still knocking, still selling, still sweating through 80-hour work weeks and still

carrying insanely heavy books. Now, over the years, a number of universities have actually banned Southwestern Advantage from recruiting on their campus, citing misleading marketing tactics and some overly enthusiastic recruitment strategies. Translation, they were annoying and shady and culty. And while the company says it offers a valuable entrepreneurial experience, others have called out the extreme hours, financial pressure, and the fact that it's all commission based. I mean, there have even been accusations of exploitation, especially for students just

looking to pay tuition, not run their own personal door to door startup. They also lobbied against the Traveling Sales Crew Protection Act, you know, the one meant to protect people from doing exactly what they have college kids doing. Which kind of says it all. There it is, an education you definitely don't get in one of their reference books. Yeah, and just thinking about that, the word cult is, I'm sure y'all have talked about it before, it is a very big loaded word and if someone had said that to me about this group, I would have been like, absolutely not, they just want us to work hard, da da da.

Like yes, there was this very in-group feeling, this like, we're special and we're hardworking and other people just can't cut it. And because all those very reasonable things, like the hiding in plain sight, I don't think I reflected on it and into the space where like, oh, this was like kind of culty until I ended up in a more traditional style cult. And I was like, wait a minute, should we talk about that? I think we should, absolutely. Yeah, we should, but right after this.

All right, full honesty for once. I didn't think I'd be into a mobile mystery game. And now here he is, fully invested in a 1920s murder case with a woman named June. Yeah, it's called June's Journey and it surprises me. It's a hidden object game where you play as a detective, you're solving crimes, you're digging through clues, and uncovering big family secrets.

It's fun. It's a brain break. The art is beautiful, the music's moody, got the right amount of drama. It's like Gatsby meets true crime. Yeah, it's kind of like doing cult research but without the existential dread. I like it when I need to feel smart and entertained. Which is all the time. And it's free.

So, if you're ready to flex your puzzle-solving brain and maybe feel a little fabulous while doing it. Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. So end of Cult One, and then, yes, we just kind of forgot about it, just kind of moved on, finished school, started my first career as a reporter that was short, moved to LA, and met a guy at the time who I would end up marrying young, just to take it back to the true love weights problem and the don't have sexually married card. Part of me was like, well, I have to marry this man. I have to or I'm going to go to hell. Still not the cult.

So what happened was he had had some strange health symptoms that I thought were probably no big deal. I had gone to visit a friend in the Netherlands. My plan was to come home, break up with him and then go move to the Netherlands. my plan was to come home, break up with him, and then go move to the Netherlands. He had been to the doctor while I was gone, and he had been diagnosed with basically cancer at the time. And the original prognosis was very grim. So I said, do you want to get married? I was like, I'll take care of him. And if he wants a kid, I'll give him a kid. And he said, sure. So we got married, which is not a reason to get married. Anyway, after we got married, they did more tests and they discovered, oh, you're actually probably gonna live a normal life and like,

neither of us really wanted to be there. So we divorced. So that's the story of that marriage. But in the early days of that marriage, as you can imagine, I wanted lots of support. I was like, I don't know anyone dealing with this. Also newly married, I was 25, 26 when we got married. I didn't have any friends who were married. I certainly didn't have any friends who were dealing with a massive health issue inside their relationship. So I was very anxious for support. And here is her moment of a big life transition, newly married, husband who is sick, needing a support system, all very understandable. We had a couple of dogs, so I would go to the dog park on a very regular basis, met

this lovely young married couple at the dog park. Our dogs got along, they watched our dogs once, we watched their dogs once, amazing. And then at some point I said, where did you guys meet? And the wife said, oh, we met at church. I was like, cool. I grew up going to church. It's the kind of stuff I did. She said, we're having a barbecue this weekend. Do you want to come to the barbecue? I'm like, I love grilled meats. We go to the barbecue. Everything's normal. I start going to a couple of services. The services seem super normal. Then one day someone's like, hey, we're gonna start this weight loss program. Do you want to join? Which is a wild thing to say to somebody,

but I know I'm a woman in America, so of course I always want to be losing weight. So I said, yeah, sure, I'll come check out. So we go to the weight loss meeting and it's like a small group and they're like, let's introduce you to the Way Down workshop. And that program run by Gwen Shamblin, RIP, is basically anorexia with prayer. Dead. Yeah. In case you missed the Way Down documentary, Gwen Shamblin is quite a cult leader. All I could focus on in the doc was how her hair kept getting bigger and bigger as each episode

Continued and I was like it can't get bigger. It just yeah, you focused on the right thing. Yeah Her program promoted weight loss through spiritual discipline teaching participants to replace food cravings with prayer I'm so hungry, Jesus, help. This would be my prayer for that. Dear God, fuck this. Yeah. Dear God, I'm eating a burger. Amen. Now, I struggled with an eating disorder throughout most of high school college in my early adulthood,

so disordered eating didn't feel wrong to me. So you take these toxic behaviors, add a little religious like razzle-dazzle, and it made sense to me. So the way the Weigh Down workshop worked is... Gwen Chamberlain died tragically in a plane accident. I don't mean to make fun of her, but she just had this super thick southern accent, so thick. And so we would listen to these recordings of Gwen talk about weight loss. And she would say, you know, people tell us that we need

to eat to have energy, but that's not true. People say that we need to consume food and calories in order to keep our bodies going, but our bodies can do anything. Look at a cow. A cow eats grass and makes milk. And for some reason I was like, that makes sense. That doesn't make any sense. She was like, you can do anything to your body and God will protect you. And so she was like, you know, we don't want to be a slave to the refrigerator was like one of her phrases. And the whole way the program worked was that you simply didn't eat. That she said, God gave our bodies a signal that we need to eat and that signals your stomach growling. And unless your stomach is growling, you don't need to eat, which is not true. It's just anorexia.

– Yes, this is correct. – But they definitely promoted the Weigh Down workshop from the pulpit. It's a way to release things that are keeping you from God. If food is one of your idols, it's a way to let go of that. And in so doing, you will become the most beautiful, attractive form of yourself, and you'll get to be closer to God the whole time. You paid a membership, you had to pay for the materials, which were some recordings and a workbook. And then of course, she has a self-help book.

We were meeting week to week, bragging about how little we had eaten. Everyone would brag like, oh my gosh, all I had yesterday was a diet coke and half of a slice of pizza. We were all so proud. And it's interesting being in and out of both the religious world and the like high control group world. I feel the familiarity of like wanting to belong. It feels good, especially if you've been primed with religion. It's so interesting because it's not that it just feels good to be around like-minded people. On a brain level, it actually feels safe, like neurologically.

Our brains are wired to prioritize belonging over almost anything else, even truth. Because in evolutionary terms, being part of a group meant survival. Being alone meant death. Your nervous system doesn't just crave belonging, it relies on it. So when the people around you reflect your values and validate your choices, your brain releases oxytocin, the dopamine. It's soothing, it's regulating, it tells your body, hey, you're safe. So even if the rules are toxic, even if you're starving yourself or selling encyclopedias in a thousand degree Indiana humidity. If the group is praising

you, your brain still says, you're doing great, don't leave. It's cognitive consonance and why cults feel so good at first, until of course the cognitive dissonance sets in and your reality starts to clash with the bill of goods you've been sold. One of the things that some church I had been a part of taught us was if you wake up thinking about anything other than God, that thing is your idol and that thing is going to get you to hell. I remember hearing that and being like, oh my gosh, if you were thinking about food when you're not hungry, it's because food is an idol. there's like a path to that language that makes sense if you're primed correctly for it. And yeah, and like, it's so complex because then you start starving

yourself, you lose weight, and we live in a society that praises thinness, and so you start getting more attention, you start getting praise, and you're like, oh, well, is this my reward for doing this thing that is maybe more godly? Maybe it is ungodly to eat an entire hamburger. Ugh. Like maybe it is more godly to only have 400 calories a day. It was all day. Like everything was about not eating.

I drank so much diet Mountain Dew for some reason. That was my appetizer person of choice, which is gross. I would try to get my stomach to growl, but I would try, I would go for a run to try to get my stomach to growl, and I would be starving, but no growl, so I would just lay on the floor just waiting for my stomach to growl, which is no way to live. And the thing is, not everybody's stomach even growls. Even that logic is false. Like, sometimes your stomach growls, sometimes it doesn't. Maybe church-sponsored anorexia is not the way to go. I don't recommend it. And that was, I was like, oh no, I've joined a cult. Whoops! And I just left. And luckily at that time, I was old enough and competent enough to like immediate alarm bells. I'm like, oh, this is

bad. I've joined a cult. I gotta go. And so then I told that couple, I was like, I think my husband and I are going to like go to a different church, but hope we can still hang out. Cause that I was like, maybe if they still hang out with us, then it wasn't a cult. Cause I did like those people, but of course I never heard from them again. I never even saw them at the dog park again. They immediately evaporated. And so I was like, oh, and it was the same. It was disappointing again. Cause I was like, I'm just here trying to make friends. So it just reminded me like texturally of the booksellers. And I was like, have I been in two cults? That's crazy. I think this is one of the hardest parts about leaving a cult. You don't just lose what you thought was true.

You lose the people you thought were your closest friends. And then you realize they never actually were. I think that I've learned to give myself compassion and grace because I do like rules. I do like knowing how to succeed at a thing. I love an agenda. I love a schedule, and that's okay. So kind of like learning what got me into those spaces, I think, has been interesting to think through. You know, struggle with eating disorders for a really long time. While it's not a current struggle, it's like, I'm just so aware of how I felt during that time. So I have a lot of compassion for that version of me that thought group sponsored

anorexia was a great idea, I think. But today, for Adria, books and Bible based body shaming, it's in her past. Hallelujah. Thank you, Skinny Jesus. My life is lovely. I still write. I work a lot in the kids and family space and TV movie space. I left being in LA full-time to go hang out in Minneapolis with my partner.

He had less flexibility with his life because he's got kids and all of their structure and support is here. So now I hang out where there are seasons and snow and I now have a basement of my own that I will never let some random child stay in. I don't know if it's the only childness, but I haven't been great at making like a big pack of people to hang out with. I was never in a sorority in school, which might have scratched my culty itch if I had done that. And so I think that's still a bit of an ongoing project of figuring out how to create that kind of community for myself.

And so that's been nice. Yeah, I have a very gentle, lovely life with an open spot for a specific community, and we'll see if we get there. Thank you, Adria, for sharing your story, or should I say stories, with so much honesty, vulnerability and humor. You are quite funny. Group sponsored anorexia is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. So, Adria was an absolute joy to talk to.

Yeah, what stood out to me was how much of her journey was driven by something so human, the desire to belong. I mean, it's easy to miss the red flags when all you're looking for is support or connection. And that's true. It's a story that many of us can relate to, cult or not. And this is a good reminder that cults don't always look like cults, guys. Sometimes they look like a job or a diet. So Adria may still be looking for her community, but this time she's going to choose it, not be cult-recruited into it. And we'll be back next week with another brand new episode.

RFK, on the other hand, when he's been like on TV or being, you know, his confirmation hearings or whatever, he spews these things out as though they're facts, even though they're either refuted science or they're unverified or it's from some tiny study that's never been peer reviewed or replicated. But he says it with a great deal of confidence. is created, produced and hosted by me, Tyler Evansville-Indiana-mesum. And me, Liz Love-Waite-Saiakuzy. As sound design and edit by Rob Handler-Pera. Oh yeah, and our assistant editor is of course Greta, the Encyclopedia Britannica's drumquist. This is a story that begins with a dying wish.

One thing I would like you to do. My mother's last request that my sister and I finish writing the memoir she'd started about her German childhood when her father designed a secret super weapon for Adolf Hitler. German victory! My grandfather, Robert Lusser, headed the Nazi project to build the world's first cruise missile, which terrorized millions and left a legacy that dogged my mother like a curse. She had some secrets. Mom had some secrets.

I'm Suzanne Rico. Join my sister and me as we search for the truth behind our grandfather's work and for the first time face the ghosts of our past. Geez, who is he? Listen to The Man Who Calculated Death, available now wherever you get your podcasts.. and Boomerang. Watch all the hits all for free from all your favorite devices. Oh my god, I love it! Feel the free Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.