Was I In A Cult? - Gloriavale: “Gloria Fail"

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Jason Christian was born into Gloriavale — a self-proclaimed utopic Christian community of more than 500 people on the West Coast of New Zealand’s South Island. His grandfather, Hopeful Christian, was the leader. Shut out from the outside world and forced to work on the farm at the age of six, Jason was primed to live a life without actual freedom, as this group of true believers was all he knew. But when it was time for him to marry a woman in the community that was chosen for him, Jason made a different choice.   LINKS Gloriavale documentary: https://www.gloriavale.com/ Follow us: Instagram @wasiinacult Support Us: https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult Have a story to share on our show? Email us: [e-mail] — “This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/INACULT and get on your way to being your best self.”

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. You go to the leaders, and the leaders will sit you down and say, all right, we're going to fast and pray that God will give you a wife. Then you'll go away and probably two or three days fasting, you'll come back together and meet with them again. And at that point you're open enough to suggestion and they'll say, we think, oh, I want

you to Was I in a Cult? I'm Liz I Aikuzzi. And I'm Tyler Miesum. And on this show, we give those who are in cults or cultic environments a chance to tell their story and take their power back. This show isn't about the cult itself, but the person who lived through it. Yes, we get to hear about the cult but through their who lived through it. Yes, we get to hear about the cult, but through their perspective. And sometimes our guests have never actually met the cult leader. Sometimes they're in the inner circle. And sometimes, the cult leader is actual family. Like our brave guest today, Jason Christian.

And a big shout out to our Australian and New Zealand audiences. Oh boy. How you going? This one's for you. Take out your night. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Hi, I'm Jason Christian. Currently, I live in Alabama. Originally from the West Coast of New Zealand. I'm 29 years old. Now, keep in mind that Jason is a Kiwi. Wait, does that term offensive?

No, but call a Kiwi and Australian, and you might as well call them a racist piece of shit. Right, Bridget and Jack? Okay, who the hell are Bridget and Jock? Oh, they're my Kiw and Australian friends. You know, one's a Kiwysh and one's an Ozzy? I met them last year. Remember when I was living in Australia? Oh my god, he makes this is a podcast, Liz, and not a vlog. People are actually listening,

other people are actually listening. How about we stay with Jason. Now due to his Kiwiness, Jason, he might be sometimes hard to understand. But not to worry folks, we have subtitles on this podcast. Or I'll just translate it for them, Tyler. What do you think? How is my Oz my the Auss the Auss the Auss the Auss their their their their their their their their their their their their is my their is my their is my their is my their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is th. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. People. People. th. People. People. th. th. People. th. th. th. People. th. th. th. People. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I. I'm. I. I. I'm. I. I'm. I. I. I'm. t. t. th. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. translate it for them, Tyler. Right? What do you think? How's my Ozzy accent? I live there for four months? Is it not bad, eh? It's not great. It's not. No. It's not. Oh, well, get ready for a lot more of that then in this episode. I grew up in a Christian-based fundamentalist cult. It was founded by my grandfather in the late 1970s. It's known as Gloria Vail. Guys, this cult is a fun one to deep dive on. Gloria Vale describes themselves as a Christian community on the west coast of South Island in New Zealand. And according to their website,

it's currently home to more than 90 families. That's around 700 people. It's its own self-sustaining community, completely isolated. And it operates on a property owned by the registered charitable Christian Church Community Trust since 1991. Which to me sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo for I don't want to pay my taxes. My grandfather was Neville Cooper. He was in the Australian Air Force during the Second World War. He had a heart attack in 1948, 1949.

And I think that kind of terrified him, the thought of death, and he became a Christian afterwards. He changed his name to Hopeful Christian. He was a traveling evangelist. Yes, this is why our guest last name is Christian. It should have been Cooper, but alas, Hopeful Christian changed all that. In Australia, he was a pilot also,

so he would fly around the outback, and they set up like a tent and have a, they called it a camp. This was the late 1960s where he was flying a plane with his wife, Gloria, she was pregnant at the time and two or three aboriginal converts and the plane lost an engine and he ended up crashing in the bush. Nobody died and the injuries were fairly minor considering how bad a crash it was. The baby survived, they named him Miracle, that's my auntie Miracle.

You might have caught on, but yes, there is a weird theme to the names in this group. It's hopeful, there's Miracle, there's more. We'll get more later. That was his proof that God had called him, Ben was watching over him. Actually if God was really watching over him, I don't know if he would have really crashed in a plane in the first place. Yeah, I mean by that measure I'd say God actually prefers me more. I've never had an airplane, lose an engine and go down in the bush.

Why is that funny? Why is it funny when I say go down in the bush? I don't understand. Why is everyone laughing? I don't get it. I've never had any problems going down in the bush. Happy 15th birthday, Liz. Regardless, this heavenly incident sent hopeful on a God-inspired crusade. Filled with excessive control, trafficking, child labor, money laundering, and sexual abuse on a criminal scale. But all in the name of God, right?

Hallelujah. His belief was that he needed to create a church that was emulating the early Christian church in Jerusalem in the Book of Acts. So he moved to New Zealand in the late 1970s and he settled in Raniora. Give it to us, Tyler. Randagora is a lovely town on the South 1970s and he settled in Rangiora. Give it to us, Tyler. Randa Gora is a lovely town on the South Island of New Zealand, not far from New Zealand's second largest city of Christchurch. I have been to the South Island of New Zealand and for the record,

it is lovely. It is mountains and green hills and forest and lakes and ocean and great food, and I've been there and I still don't feel the need to impersonate their accent all the time. Well that's because you're just not as talented as I am apparently. I am not. That is for sure. And Hopeful had a daughter. Want to guess her name, Tyler? I don't know, happy? Bashful.

Okay, what's her name? Optimistic, high-fifi, fist-bump, twark, what? Faith. Oh. So Faith married someone who had a pretty nice piece of property and was part of a small Christian group. We'll call these the early stages. They would go out to this property on weekends

and do the kind of Christian's Bible studies and stuff like that. Yeah, it wasn't even really a compound at that stage was just a farm. Rough guess anywhere between seven to ten families. And Hopeful jumped in on that action and soon bestowed himself the group's leader. And he gave it a name after his wife Gloria, calling it Gloria calling it Gloria Vail. And now a nice little Christian group was born living on a farm as one big happy family. But first things first, they needed to get some rules in place. They created a financial structure first. It was known as they called it Christian Partners, where they would all go out and do their own work in different types of occupations,

and the money was all collected into a common pot and then my grandfather took control of it. He would make it like they weren't giving the money to him. They're giving the money obviously to God. Obviously. Yeah because God forgot his ATM pin and he couldn't get his own cash. And it just became more and more closed and more communistic. They've created their own school. They started buildingtheir own school, they started building those hostels on the farm and then eventually my kind of just moved in. It's mostly internal growth that happened, meaning large families and having lots of kids. I'm the

eldest of 11. My grandfather had 17 kids, this is his first wife, but that's where most of the growth came from. But that didn't stop them from trying to bring in more people. Recruitment, recruitment, recruitment, recruitment, would it be a call without some recruitment. New album coming out. Recrument! Rangior is about an hour away from Christchurch and they would send the young people into the city square and they would actively recruit people from there and invite them around to the

farm to see it. My grandmother was one of them. My mom was four years old when they got recruited. So my grandmother was recently divorced, single mother, early 1980s actually, and being a single mother, New Zealand back then would have been pretty tough. Just looking at pictures of my grandmother, I'm pretty sure she was kind of into the hippie movement. So, you know, I think a lot of that appealed to her, that lifestyle.

So would you say this is born out of the hippie movement? Absolutely. But it was with a very Christian twist. It started out, they were a lot more open, very artistic. They did a lot of plays, a lot of music like my grandfather, which kind of ended up being a part of his downfall. But he taught a lot of sexual freedom, which wasn't getting taught by the other churches at that point in time as well. And when I say sexual freedom, for him it was within the context of marriage. He did teach the couples to be more open about talking about stuff like that. Not only with him and other couples, but with their children.

Open affection was encouraged, and since families all lived in the same room, it was common to see your parents engaged in sexual relations. But it wasn't just in the privacy of their small hostels, because hopeful was hopeful he would get a look at some of the action. Oh, you mean he's a creepy cult leader? Ugh. You know, he would get couples into couples nights and he'd have them doing foreplay and kissing and stuff all together in a pool, like multiple couples in the pool, or like a sauna. Just as the good lord would want.

But not everyone was open to that sex saunna. So there was a shift in the community, and actually a lot of it was to do with my uncles and aunts. They started to see some of the sexual shit that was going on and they're like, this is weird and they ended up leaving. However, because it was a commune, the people had ownership. And when they left, they wanted money. But Hopeful couldn't pay everyone who left the community, right? And so that's when they, the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control the control, the control, the control, their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the.a.cu.s.cu.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.s.c.s.s.s.s.s.s.a.a.a.a.a. We. who left the community, right? And so that's when they, the control really took it a turn for the worst. They made them sign away everything that they owned and say, if we ever leave this

place, we're not entitled to anything when we leave. My grandfather, his control was very tight on people. And he realized that they're kind of too close to the outside world. The farm was like literally on the side of a road. It was easy for young people just walk off the property if they wanted to go. So they ended up deciding to relocate to a larger dairy farm on the west coast. And that was an hour away from the nearest small town. It's harder for people who have no personal means of to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the nearest small town. It's harder for people who have no personal means of transportation to leave. The relocation happened around early 90s and

around that same time my grandmother Gloria she ended up passing away and so my dad was pretty shook up by it as a young teenager lost his mom and my grandmother had already recommended to my grandfather that he married my mom, her name was Charity. So his father married charity. So I was born just over a year later, I think. The 1993 was the year I was born. And what's up with all the names? People came from all kinds of different backgrounds and wanting to leave their past behind. They wanted to give themselves names with meaning. There's either like a biblical name, like Sarah, James, or it was like an adjective or a verb.

There was names like willing, trust, welcome, conqueror, faithful. One of my siblings is truly my dad's name is Pilgrim. Pilgrim Christian, and that's based off of the character of Pilgrim's Progress. The Pilgrim's Progress is widely regarded as one of the most significant works in Christian literature. Written in 1678 by John Bunyan, no Liz, no relation to Paul Bunyan, the blue ox. That big guy, the big strong one? No. Paul Bunyan, oh my God, he's so hot. The book is a religious allegory that follows the journey of the protagonist, Christian,

as he embarks on a pilgrimage from the city of destruction to the celestial city, symbolizing the Christian journey towards salvation. That would be my Gloravail name. Salvation. Do you want to marry me? My name is Salvation. No? No? No. No. No. No. Yeah, so the farmer's located in one of the most beautiful spots that I've ever seen in the world. Honestly, there's a mountain backdrop and as you drive in, you drive past a beautiful lake sitting in the bottom valley. There's a clear water river that runs right through the middle of the property. Just beautifully green dairy farm.

They have several large structures that they have built on the property. They call them hostels where they live, single family units. Sounds lovely. In America, that would be the perfect place to build a Walmart. Do you know there's no Walmarts in New Zealand? That's because you can fit most of New Zealand in a Walmart supercenter. Bada-ching! So great view, beautiful location.

What the fuck did this group do all day? It would start off at about 6.30, 7 in the morning. One would get us up and we would dress for school and a school uniform, like navy blue pants and then a light blue shirt and always a tie, black tie. Every single day we had to show up to breakfast on time, 7.30. Punctuality was very important. Then we go to the dining hall. You could easily fit 500 plus people.

How did you guys feed 500 people? They have a account, called the sharing account, where they funneled the money for food and then they would buy it and bulk to say money like, I mean we're getting one metric tongue crates of corn or apples buying bulk and then they would preserve it, meat. Most of that came from the farm. Sheep, deer, cows, chickens. My grandfather couldn't handle spices and therefore no one else was allowed. Sure, you can fondle each other in the community pool all day, but heaven forbid you order the spicy chicken wings. This has some like weird Mormon rules to it.

No coffee but drink all the diet coke you want. spicy chicken wings. This has some like weird Mormon rules to it. No coffee, but drink all the Diet Coke you want. We had to eat all our food. We had to eat all our food on our plate. And, okay, so to do the prayer, everyone kind of stepped down. The first five minutes or so would usually be just a whole bunch of noise of people eating and talking and just feeling their to their to the to................ the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th th th th th th thi, thin, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the th th thi, thi.. thi. the thi. the thi. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toda. the the the toda. thi. toe. toe. toe. toe. to toe, to to toe and feeling happy noises. About five to 10 minutes in, usually, my grandfather would start making announcements

and that would kind of lead into him reading a passage from the Bible, and there's like seven massive long wipe tables, and he would put the leaders on the very end at the head of each table. And they were kind of like had a microphone, and they would kind of have brainwashing sessions two times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times times ti they were kind of like had a microphone and they would kind of had brainwashing sessions two times a day in the morning meal and the evening meal but if one of them was going off down a track that he disagreed

with he would shut them down in a very humiliating way like he would just say hey sit down and they would just have to comply and it was like super embarrassing for them because it'd be like a mid-sentence I think they were they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they were they were they were they were they were they were they they they they they they they they they they they they were their their th. I their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th the. the. the tm. tm. tm. tm. tm. tm. tm. tm. tm. the the it'd be like mid-sentence. I think they were always kind of in fear of being embarrassed by him. But at the same time, you know, he was the source of their power. He was the source of their authority. So they protected them. Classic cult leader, fear me but worship me at the same time. And it was definitely his personality that held the thing together. Why I don't know because he had a way of making people feel warm and he would use, I love you a lot. Just love bombing all the time, but he also knew how to break people emotionally.

He had a way of just being able to make you feel like the worst person in the world. Jesus, this guy really is the classic cult leader. Break you down, then build you back up again. And there was some weird things that would happen sometimes, like my grandfather would say, all the men, kind of like a rooster, and all the men would do their best rooster, and all the women cluck like a chicken or moo like a cow. Like kind of weird things that are in hindsight is kind of degrading. I think it was his way of trying to make it fun for everyone.

As it's how he was. And he was really hard on people that were, well, in his opinion, overweight. And so he would even do things like, make us all run on the spot. Sounds super fun, reminds me of my favorite sleepovers as a kid where we would moo like cows and run around fat shaming each other. Yay! The best!

And they would just do them because they were told to do them. That's part of the brainwashing. It's that you just do things because you're told told told told told told told told tld. And it takes away your individuality. Everything was uniformity. And then after that, it would be a prior to end the meal. Then they would have music practice. So nearly everyone was taught a musical instrument. My dad played the double bass. I was never really a musical talent when it comes to playing instruments. All the adults would kind of split into various groups. They had a brass band group. It's fairly large. I mean it's 20 to 30 men and this one fairly loud brass band. The kids would go brush their teeth for school, but we'd always hear that the adults are practicing music in the background. And then yeah, at school started about 9 o'clock.

The classrooms were usually in the same building as we ate, kind of like side brooms of that same building. We got taught English math. I mean, the first subject of every day was always a Bible reading of some kind. So yeah, indoctrination was first incorporated into it. And what type of Christianity was it? So yeah, a fundamentalist, Christian beliefs, with a lot of emphasis placed on certain things like we would taught

the godly order as they called it. God at the top and then the church and then dad and then mom and then kids. That's the way they taught it. They emphasized God's message to us came through the church, but for my grandfather, I mean God talked directly to him, so all we had to do was listen to them. The most strong teaching in terms of the brainwashing was the fear of, it was so strong, like I was constantly in fear that I would do something that would put me in help. The other thing that really contributed to that was the Doomsday teachings of, you know,

Jesus is going to come back and all the people that are living right with Christ, as they would say, are going to be taken into heaven and everyone who's not is going to be left behind. Unlike some other cults where they put a date on it, my grandfather taught that it could be at any time at any moment, so you always have to be ready. Damn, that's brilliant. This cult leader outsmarted them all, Tyler. He is truly the poster boy for cult leaders. Yep, him and Hitler. Hopeful and Hitler sitting in a tree, S-U-C-K-I-N-G. Yeah, and on, and. Yeah. And, and th. Yeah. And, and th. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, th, th. th. th. th, th, th, th, the, the c' the c' the c' the c' the c' the, the, the, the, the the, the-in, the-in, the-in, the-S-S-S-S-S-a, the-S-S-I. the-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-S-S-S-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, thauuu'-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, the-a, theree, S-U-C-K-I-N-G. Yeah, and on that note, we will be right back. First came coercion, then came sucking more.

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. You know what I wish I had more of, Liz? 70s rock ballads. Yeah, but they aren't making any more of those. What I wish I had more of was time. Yeah, we all wish we had more time, ti, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, to t, to t, t, t, to t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, t, to t, ti, to ti, ti, ti, ti, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, they aren't making any more of those. What I wish I had more of was time. Yeah, we all wish we had more time, Tyler, but time for what? You know, I'm not even sure, to be honest. Maybe you should talk to your therapist about that. Oh, that's a good idea.

I'm full of them. You know, therapy isn't just for thapy tha tho tho, that's right. It's for anyone who wants to be the best version of themselves. Ah, so you're saying I shouldn't be content with my mediocre self. I'm saying aim higher, Tyler. If you, dear listener, are thinking of starting therapy, it's never been simpler than with better help. And better help you guys is entirely online, which makes it super easy to fit into your busy schedules. Look, Liz and I have both benefited from seeing therapists and encourage you to try it as well with better help. I mean, I think I've benefited probably more than you have,

just considering... Let's not make this a contest. Learn how to make time for what makes you happy with Better Help. Visit Better Help.com slash In a Cult today and get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help, HELP.com, slash N.A.C.C.C.C. We're back. Guys. Definitely recommend looking uporaville to at least get the visual of the compound and the people. Now like any good colt leader, Hopeful did a good job of really isolating everyone from the

rest of society. He really is like the best culliter I've heard of. He's smart. He knows. Yeah, and it gets worse. All the media was tightly controlled. Like the radio, television, there was none of that. In a vehicle, they would take the antenna out,

and I figured out how to take the radio out and reinstall an antenna on the radio. And then I would find a quiet place where no one would find me to listen to the radio. Occasionally would get newspapers that would use mostly for starting a fire in the morning. You know, when those newspapers would come in, I would grab one and hide somewhere and read it. So that was kind of the closest thing to rebelling we could do as a teenager. And what about holidays?

Can celebrate Christmas, we didn't celebrate Easter, yeah, even birthdays. There's no individuality birthdays. I knew it celebrated a birthday. But they did have special holidays called Celebration Day, the date chosen, of course, by Hopeful himself. Not to be confused by the great Led Zeppelin song. Not to be confused by the pretty good Led Zeppelin song, Celebration Day. Rob, just don't play it, please. Just a touch of it. Just play a touch of it. Here we go. And they would have like a picnic outside food.

They had people that would dress up as clowns. They had a swimming pool that they built. A bunch of really fun activities. Those days were great. And it was kind of a relief from the monotony of everyday life. Part of that monotony was the damned meetings. On Sundays, we would have to fast from the evening of Saturday before. Then in the whole of Sunday, there was no food.

And then about 5 o'clock in the evening, our meeting would commence. And the meeting wasn't like a regular church service at all. Iran would sit around in a circle. All the men were expected to contribute. Women were not allowed to preach, but they were allowed to pray. Oh well thank you for allowing me to not open my mouth and just sit quietly with my thoughts. So very kind of you. School usually would be out around 1 p.m. And from there we were all assigned a job. So very kind of you. School usually would be out around 1 p.m. And from there, we were all assigned a job. I remember that the first time I was assigned to go work on the dairy farm,

I was about six years old. Dairy farm was running five to six hundred cows at this point. And I wasn't really given a specific assignment. Like I was kind of just expected to know where to go and who to report to. And so I went out to the bush of wherever and started pitching blackberries and distracted myself. But eventually, the person who I'd been assigned to work for found me and was not happy at all. He pulled out the nearest thing you could find, which was a steel fence picket and thrash me with that.

As a six-year-old, we're not going to work on time. HASHTAG Compound Life. We got it. We got it. Maybe I should read the scripts before you just put him in front of me. This is why we have rehearsals so that I just don't read what Liz. This is where I don't have edit control. The beatings were regular and came out of nowhere, violence was just part of life.

I mean, we got been with so many different objects from plastic pipes to wooden handles. Very much they believe can spare the rod, spoil the child. Oh yes, the old spare the rod, spoil the child proverb. Most certainly, tens of thousands of children have been beaten by their parents who have used this familiar phrase. Allegedly from the Bible as a justification for their actions. And yes, there are at least five verses in the Bible's book of Proverbs that talk about using a rod to beat a child.

For his own good, naturally. Naturally. The most famous is Proverbs 1324. Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them are diligent and discipline them. However, the phrase, the actual phrase, spoil the rod, spare the child, doesn't come from the Bible, Liz. What?

Allow me to regale you with a story. Most people think the phrase spare the rod, spoil the child comes from the Bible, but it doesn't. It comes from a 17th century, satirical and erotic poem entitled, Hutebrus. It was written by Samuel Butler, and in it he openly mocks Puritanical belief and rails against religious sectarianism. So the poem features a very lascivious lady. Lassivious means, lude, lustful. It just means a woman who actually isn't afraid of her sexuality.

Well, this one is pretty open about it, this particular woman. She's going for it. She is trying to convince her lover to let her lash him sexually as a way for their love affair to grow. It's true. And the man he's a bit hesitant. So like BDSM. Yeah. The man's a bit... Yeah, the old school. The man's a bit hesitant to receive the whipping and the woman then gives a spiel all about the joys of the whip. And she ends it with, this is a quote from the poem. What medicine else can cure the fits of lovers when they lose their wits? Love is a boy by poet styled,

then spare the rod and spoil the child. Yes. Come on! It's true. That's crazy. The phrase is way more 50 shades of gray than it ever is Bible. Take that Bible. Yeah, take that Bible. So this phrase that has been used as justification to beat the shit. to to the to the the to the the to the the to the the to the the to the the the to the the the the to the the the the. thoe. thoii- thoi- to to thoicicicicicicki- thoe is thoysysyski- the thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoes thoe thoe thoe thoe the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thoe thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooe toe thoe thoe that Bible. Yeah, take that Bible. So this phrase that has been used as justification to beat the shit out of your kids with plastic pipes comes from a poem about sex and BDSM. Wow. Right. So instead of hitting your child, maybe what you should be doing. Hit your husband instead. Get him in there, tie his arms up and kitcha! Kachah! I think the... This is so our love will grow, man!

I had this memory and I think it really kind of defines my childhood in the sense of how normal it was for these things to happen, because like all my good memories are kind of intertwined with these things too. They have a swimming pool there and I remember going to the swimming pool after one of these days where I had a beating at work, pulling down my pants to go to the swimming pool and I had bruises all over my body, you know? I remember things that happened to other people that were far worse than what happened to me. One of my friends was caught lying or something like that, her mom took her out of the classroom and she's gone for about 30 minutes and when she came back the farm of her hand was burnt brown, her mom had placed her hand on a hot stove with a fire underneath it.

To give her a taste of what hell was like, that's the kind of things that were done. Like I looked back on her and it was actually a lot of idyllic in the sense of growing up on a farm around animals and a beautiful valley with waterfalls in the background. At the same time, just this violence and this sense of control when entrapment was constant in my life. And I didn't even know how to express all that, but it was there. But I remember trying to talk to my mom my my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to my mom to to to to to to to to the mom the mom the mom the mom the mom the mom the the the the the the the there. But I remember trying to talk to my mom about it, and she would kind of just justify it.

Which isn't surprising, his parents had been successfully indoctrinated into Hopeful's ideology. To them, he was God, and God's word was everything. Like every son, I had a connection with my mother. It wasn't the greatest relationship, but there was definitely, you know, natural bonds there. I think most of that was because the community was what was raising us, not our parents, per se. From my dad's side, it was kind of the fear of him because he was expected to discipline me, like the other me in the community. And he did at times, hit me. And I don't hold that against him now now now now now now now the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the, their thi, thi, thi, you there there there there was definitely, there there there, there was definitely, you there there there there there there there there there there was definitely, there there there there there was definitely, there, there, there was definitely, there, there, there, there, there, there was definitely, there, there, there, there there's there, there there there's there, there, there there's there, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thi, that, that, that, that, that, theeeeeat, theat, theat, theat, theat, that, there was definitely there was definitely there was definitely there was definitely, there was definitely,to discipline me, like the other me in the community, and he did at times, hit me. And I don't hold that against him now because he's made a means for it.

His abuse was a product of the abuse that he had. I'm not saying that it justifies and makes it all right, it doesn't at all. Did you ever get beaten by him? No, I don't think I ever got beaten by him. However, he definitely encouraged that sort of thing. You know, if babies were crying, he encouraged parents to put their hands over their mouth to silence them. She would say, count to three, and if they don't stop, then you discipline them with sticks. The bullying was encouraged, and it was done from the top down.

My grandfather would bully people under him and they would in turn bully people under them, parents would bully their children, children would end up bullying other children. You couldn't really trust anyone. I mean, I remember being falsely accused of things and like just getting into trouble for things I didn't even do, and it's encouraged to backstab and tell tales and I got to the point like when I was a kid I became very antisocial.

I didn't really have a lot of friends or people that I was close to. Definitely weren't people I could confide in because you were always afraid of, you know, if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person, you're getting in trouble for it. We were made to do public apologies for anything that was wrong, and it was always like a fear that everyone had because there's no currency. We didn't handle money, but your reputation and the organization becomes the currency. And so if you have to stand up and apologize, it kind of lowers your status in the community. Yes, there was no currency, but they did have money.

Well, the leaders did, of course. The dairy farm was the backbone of their businesses. They also have a meat processing plant. It's like the guts and the heads and the gross stuff that comes from a meat processing plant. It's disgusting, absolutely disgusting. And they would basically boil it down and dry it out and thrown it out. And the out, the the the the the the, the, well. Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, the the the the the the leaders, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, the leaders, the leaders, well, well, well, the leaders, the leaders, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, the the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the the the the the the the the the the the the the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the leaders, the gross stuff that comes from a meat processing plant. It's disgusting, absolutely disgusting. And they would basically boil it down, and dry it out, and then make powder out of it. You sell that powder to dog food companies.

And this company was making millions of dollars. Were you getting paid for it? No, no, not. When I was about 16, I think they made me sign some documents saying that, you know, I was basically working from my food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food the food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food food to to to to to to to to their, to to to to to me. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. th. their. th. th. th.. th. th.. th. th. the the the the the th. the the th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the. th. the th made me sign some documents saying that, you know, I was basically working for my food and board. They'd set up a bank account for me and they were putting about $1,200 every two weeks into a bank account and then they would donate that money to a charitable trust and that the charitable trust is their tax avoidance. And if you donate all your money to charity, then you can write all that their their. their. their. And their tax avoidance. And if you donate all your money to charity, then you can write all that off. And so you get the full benefit of the child tax creditor and it's per child. So imagine you got ten

kids. The figure that I've heard someone around is being the tax credits from the government is about $3 million a year. So that's a big part of their scheme. There's so many intricacies in this, honestly, we probably could be here for us. The girls, they were working just like the boys from a very young age, right? Yeah, they had a sewing room where they would sew all their uniforms that they would war, and it was all out of the same material.

Women would wear a very dark, blue, long dress get coverings were considered mandatory that it was supposed to be covering when you pray. This of course comes from First Corinthians chapter 11 verse 5 which states quote every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if her head were shaven unquote. Too bad a woman didn't write this. Well, if a woman had written it, Tyler, it would say, quote, Every woman who doth pray with her head uncovered

shall not be judged nor shamed. The mere idea that a woman's spirituality is tied to her physical appearance undermines the agency and the dignity of women. In fact, if a man were to shame a woman for praying with her hair down, I give unto the permission to go ahead and gently punch him in the balls." End quote. Any time you were outside of your bedroom, you have to wear this thing. It doesn't matter if you're praying or not.

The justification was, well, you should always be praying, so you should always be wearing it. Okay, this one's going to make you laugh, but maybe not in a ha ha ha way. One verse earlier in First Corinthians, it says, quote, every man who prays with his head covered dishonors his head. And I'm sure this had to do with body heat, right? Men are biologically warmer than women, so the Bible is just looking out for the cold ladies and keeping the men cool.

Sure, Liz. Here's another quote from Corinthians. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. This sounds like his first crush didn't like him back, so we just went off on a woman hating tyraid.

Like, don't take your shit out on millions of people who are gonna read your diary later and think it's the Bible or something. My grandfather's very, very strong on women should just be homemakers, stay at home, and look after children. And because he encouraged having big families as well, I don't think you need them walti-a' have had time for jobs. Yeah, why don't you explain how the arranged marriages work? Yeah, it's almost run like how they breed animals.

Q animal breeding music, Rob. Whatever that is. No, it's good, but try again. Louder? the fuck you in that can't. Bring up the oink. The oink. Oh, there we go. The first step for any young person, male or female, is making what they call the Declaration

of Commitment to the community. This was a document where basically you're saying, I'm never going to own anything myself, it's all belongs to the community. One of the last lines in this document, read something like, if I break any of these vows, then you lose your immortal soul and you can never get it back. Like if you ever leave, you're going to help. You have to prove your loyalty to them.

Once you've made that commitment, you go to your appearance and basically you say, hey, look, I think I want to get married. This happens as young as 17. Actually, it has happened as young as 16. Anyway, so then the next step is with your parents' approval, you go to the leaders, and the leaders will sit you down and say, all right, we're going to fast and pray that God will give you a wife. And then you'll go away and probably two or three days fasting, you'll come back. Hungry as fuck.

And at that point, you're open enough to suggestion and they'll say we think oh once you marry you know X. They have a list of the girls that you have it's gonna choose from. These are girls whose parents have told the leaders that their daughters are ready for marriage. But in saying that there's times when the leaders will say hey we think your daughter's ready for marriage because they you know, want to get it married off. And then from that point, once they've told you who you're going to marry, and they'll arrange for you to get in a room with the girl to propose to her. So sorry, love is blind.

Looks like Gloria Vail had the concept way before you did. We grew up knowing of the the their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, tha, their, tha, thia, thia, thia, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thoomoomorrow, thoes. We. We. I. I. I. I, thoome, thoom. I. I. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to. And, told. And, told. And, told. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, ta, ta, ta, ta, toge. And, toge. And, toguuu. And, togu. And, togu. And, toooooooooooooooe. And, toe. And, t girls in there, but we weren't allowed to have a relationship with any of them. There was no dating process at all. Once you propose, then you are engaged to be married, and here's the kicker, you're going to be married within six to eight weeks, and you're going to be stuck with a person for the rest of your life. And the dating, courting process is hands-off, completely no touching, and it's supposed to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be a to be a to be a their their the dating courting process is hands-off, completely no touching, and it's supposed to be a chaperone process till their wedding day. And then the wedding day is very strange because there's the meeting part of it and I guess the ceremony part of it. The vows basically says that a woman is expected to give herself to a man whenever he desires. I mean, at that point, you've got two pent-up young people who have not been able to hold hands, touch or anything.

The near experienced this before, they're having to do this in front of their family and friends. And so, yeah, it's super awkward for them, but it's also there's an expectation to show that you love each other. And so that that that that that that that that that was that was th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that you love each other. And so that was even worse because they were like expected to have this long kiss and a girl might be grossed out by him. Even more awkward as they would then go away to consummate the marriage. Immediately after that ceremony, so everyone knew where they were going and what they were doing.

I mean, everything was all set out for the reception. Even wouldn't be waiting around. I mean, we'd play card games. These poor girls, I mean, the first time you have sex, it's not the most fun. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I'll tell you another thing that, I'm not sure how common this particular thing was, but I know my parents, there's worse things that he did.

As far as my grandfather being involved in people's sexual lives, and it's very commonplace for my grandfather to take them to the place where they're going to do this. You can go and have a shower. And he went like the guy coming out of the shower, and he would literally put lube on them their their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to th. to th. to th. th. to th. to th. th. ths like that. My dad said that this happened to him. All this stuff was like, I mean, at the time it was normal. It's, I thought that was just how it was. But you know, you look back on it, it's like, wow. It's so not okay. You know, like I said, he was convicted of sexual assault. I mean, he originally was charged with, I think, about 30 counts of sexual

misconduct, but for some reason, the thing got dropped on a technicality. The second time around, they kind of just went after the one that he had really abused the worst, I guess, because kind of the other ones were probably a little bit harder to prove. So they went for the one where he molested a young girl with a wooden dildo. Her and a young man in the cult wanted to be together outside of their rigid marriage structure. And so, from what I understand,

they did leave together briefly, and then they both decided to kind of come back. And basically, my grandfather told her that for her to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the their then they both decided to kind of come back and basically my grandfather told her that for her to be together he had to prepare her for her life as a wife. Okay, I'm just going to go ahead and say what everyone else is thinking. Hopeful Christian is a genuine piece of shit. And he was convicted on that one of five counts of aggravated sexual assault. The scene is for five years for sexual assault, and he only did one. And he was led out on an appeal.

And then he went on to carry on running the group. That was 1995 that he was released, and he ran it up to his death in 2018. And this is why cults are so scary, because your leader could be imprisoned for horrific sexual assault. And as his follower, you completely ignore it, continue to blindly follow his doctrine and false promises. But of course, the truth is never what is conveyed to the group. When I was a teenager, I was told he went to prison for spreading the gospel, you know, and he was persecuted. Nobody knew, even up until recently, why he was convicted for, because he managed to keep

it secret. And the people who did somewhat know, or who had maybe went to court with him, see, they didn't believe any of it, to just deny it. And at some point, things started to come into focus for Jason. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I as soon. thaa. tha. tha. tha. tha. thiiia, thia, thia, th. th. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No, th. No, th. No. No, th. No, th. No, th. No, th. No. No, th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. theeean. No, toda. toda. toda. toda. today, today, today, today, today, today, theea. come into focus for Jason. I started seeing that certain things just didn't make sense. For instance, we were told that everybody on the outside was unhappy and miserable. But whenever I did interact with people on the outside, which was not very often, that usually was not the case. In fact, sometimes, they were way more happy than anybody I knew in there. And my cousin, who was a year older than me, he'd been allowed to go live with some relatives on the outside. And I thought, why can't I do that?

But he was only 14, so legally he was still under his parents' control. My dad, he said, give it to your 18, if you still don't like it, then you can leave. For the next few years, almost was a constant like back and forth between should I leave or should I stay. And I had that feeling that I'm in a fishbowl. I can kind of see some of what's outside, but I've never been able to experience it. And if I keep going down the road, I'm going to be trapped here and I'll never will get to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to experience to be to be to be a, to be a, to be a, to be a, to be a, to be, to be, to be, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, to be a, to be a, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, they.....a, I'm, the the the the the the the the the the the the the they.I. And, they.s, tieuiuiole, tieuioluioluioluioleteer, th mea, th the the the the the the the th the thruioliolui. I'm going to be trapped here and I'll never will get to experience any of it. But the same time, like I said, I made the commitment and I was kind of exploring that

period of time for them to evaluate you and prove your loyalty. And during that time, there was a really interesting thing that happened because my dad had falling out with the leaders and disagreements with them. My mom came to me and started accusing my dad of things that were 20 years old, like basically trying to tear him down. And so as soon as he started to fall out of favor with the leaders, he fell out of favor with her as well. So I started to realize that the marriages weren't based on love, that they were based on the commitments that they had made through the leadership.

And by the time I got to 18, I had actually told my dad that I wanted to leave and that I was very serious about it and he said go talk to your grandfather and tell him that. And so I actually did go and talk to my grandfather and it was just, hey, I don't think, I'm cut out to be here and if possible I'd like to leave with the blessing. And he basically just ignored the request and he started berating me and telling me how bad I was going to make my mother feel and he just he knew all the buttons to push to make me feel guilty for even considering such a thing. And now he was of marrying age in the community. Yeah I mean I was one of the older young men at that point at 19. And the the the the the the the the request. And the the the request. And the the the request. And the the request. And the the request. And the the request. the request. the request. the request. the request. the request. th. th. th. th. I was th. I was thi. I was th. I was th. I'd th. I'd th. I was th. I was thi. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was the. I was theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeean. I was theeethe community. Yeah, I mean I was one of the older young men at that point at 19.

And there was other people in the community that were encouraging me to go down that line of marriage. And so I actually started pursuing a little bit more. I went down the line of, should I get married here? And so then I'd actually gone and talked toto my grandfather and the leaders called me into a meeting about it. And this was like, prove your loyalty type meeting. The leadership they called them servants to shepherds. There's probably about 12 to 15 older men. It was basically an interrogation and they were expecting me to say the right words to prove to them that I was going to be a loyal servant of the

community. And they ended up outright saying it, they said, well, if you want to marry one of our daughters, then you have to prove to us that you're not going to get her and take her away from here once you're married. When they outright said that, and I walked away from it, just thinking, wow, if I get th I th I thi I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, if I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to say, to say, to say, their, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to say, to me their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th.. And, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thr. throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, thoooooomooomorrow, thoooomorrow, the. thooooooo just thinking, wow, if I get married here, my relationship's going to be totally in their control. And they're always going to have power over it. And I also came to the realization that they that what about the women? Don't they get a choice?

Come on, Jason. You know we don't get a choice? Did I say you could be Liz. I was so sorry. That's that was the final straw honestly at that point then I was determined this wasn't something I was going to pursue any further. The next step was to figure out the how of escape. Oh hell yes my favorite part is coming up. My favorite part is coming up but you're just gonna have to wait, because we have to take break. Right, Rob? It's a hit.

Hey Liz. Liz, Liz! Liz! What? Stop interrupting me! I have one more object to find and only 30 seconds to find it. Oh, I know what you're doing. You're spending time with your new co-host that has all but replaced me. Yes, I'm playing seekers th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thiiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. to toea. to toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toe. to. toe. to. the. the. th me. Yes, I'm playing Seeker's Notes, and it's far more important than anything you have to say at the moment. It's a hidden object game, correct?

Oh, Seeker's Notes is a cut above traditional hidden object games, Tyler. It's a premium hobby for those who enjoy the chase of the hunt and the art of discovery. Which is something everybody knows about you. I do love a good hunt, Chase. And why I love Seeker's Notes is it transports you to this beautiful post-Victorian world in the mysterious city of Darkwood. An abandoned yet enchanted city,

you are the chosen one to decipher its ancient curse. Seekers Notes has enchanted millions of fans of the hidden object. And beyond hidden objects, the game engages players with brain teasing puzzles. Something someone I know could use, possibly. Possibly me. But what I love about it, it's, I mean, you're not just playing a game, it's an entire mood and vibe. Yes, I agree. The design is next level.

You guys, each location is a complete work of art. And I love that it's totally free with no annoying ads. And no annoying co-hosts. It's very calming, too. You know, those sound effects? The sound effects have this very satisfying ASMR quality to them. Well, all right, now I don't feel so bad. I mean, your replacement co-host does have a ton more cool features than me. Ah, yes, finally! There's the compass! It was hiding behind the darn teapot. As compasses do. If you guys are

looking for a great game and a great non-culti community, we highly recommend Seekers' notes. Download now and see exactly why Liz tends to ignore me. This is the excuse I use, but I also just... Sometime in the early 80s, ARIO's Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced middle of the night landing. This is my friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks, and he's telling me about how he discovered a real life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed blue velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America.

Supposedly Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out of the way places to bring in his cocaine. My name is Joshua Davis, and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnamtown, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist. Welcome to Varnamtown. Varnomtown is available wherever you listen to podcasts. Jason, having decided not to marry, is now figuring out how the hell to get out of here.

Like I mentioned before, the property is, it's in the middle of nowhere, it's an hour away from the nearest town. I didn't really know anybody in that town. The only relationship that I had with some next door neighbors, when I say next door, like, this is a four to five hundred acre property. So that was the closest contact I had. And I started forming a friendship with them probably two or three tha years the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th probably two or three years before I left and there's a big river between the neighbor's place so I would have to either cross the river on

a full-size farm tractor or on a horse if I didn't want to get completely soaking wet and cold. The cousin that I talked about earlier who had left, his whole family had ended up leaving. That was my Auntie Miracle's family that had left. Anyway, so I got that phone number next time I went and visited the neighbor's place and I used that to give him a call and I arranged for him to come pick me up that night. So he was living in Christchitch at the time, which is about four hours drive from the community and the deal was going to come and pick me up at that that that that that that that that that that that that that th... th. th. the the th. the the th. the th. the the th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi. thi, the the the, thi. thi. thi. thi. thoomorrow, the the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that that thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, thi, thi, throwne. Soeeeean, throwneeeeeean, thrown, thrown, thrown, thrown, thrown, throwne, thi, thi, community. And the deal was that he was gonna come and pick me up at midnight. And so I we back to the farmer that was staying that night. And my dad and my brother came and stayed the night with me.

I waited till they were asleep and got up. The moon was pretty bright, so I didn't even need a light. And I knew that my dad, even though he's had his doubts at that stage, I knew that he was going to try and stop me if I left and I think he had his suspicions that I might try. But I wanted to block him from being able to catch me and there was three vehicles on the property, there's a tractor, a four-by-four utility vehicle and a horse. But when I found the tractor, took the keys out of the tractor and like hit them in the tractor itself just to buy myself as much time as possible.

I didn't know where the horse was. And then I got the keys for the 4 by 4. And as soon as I started it, he was going to wake up because it's like right outside the place we're staying. And so I just took off and there's about 20 minutes drive through the woods to where I was going to meet up with my cousins. I got there, they didn't know exactly where I was and say, might have driven past a couple of times. And I had to wait for about 45 minutes to an hour. Eventually, they found me. And I'd asked them them to them to them to them them them them to them them them to them them them them them them them them to them them to them them them them to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their them their their their their their their their their their their their their their try 20 20 minutes their their toee.e.e.e.e.e.eminii. 20 20 minutes toe 20 minutes toe to to to to tried to flash my lights at them and had to wait for about 45 minutes to an hour. Eventually they found me and I'd asked them to bring some clothes to me so I'd literally

I took the clothes that I was wearing on my back that I've been told my whole life for a privilege to even have and I threw them on the vehicle that I'd taken and there's like I'm leaving with nothing. I don't want anything from you anymore. I should actually strip down to my own way, put on the clothes, my cousins that brought me and climbed in the vehicle and ready to go. As they were turning around, all of a sudden this horse jumps out into the middle of the road and the front of the vehicle. And there was my dad had ridden the full speed after me through the woods in the middle of the

night. He tried to convince me to stay and give it more time and he was pretty desperate I think at that stage. So he's pleading with me and he's in tears pretty much. At that point I was just done. Like I was done being convinced by people that this was the life that was for me. I had decided that I needed to see what the rest of the world was like and I told him, no, dad, I'm going. I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know where it was going to work. I didn't know where it's going to live, but anything's better than us. And so, yeah, we took off into the night.

And that was it. One of the bravest things, and I'm sure hardest things anyone has ever done. He left behind everything he knew. He broke his signed commitment and lost his soul, his clothes, and his family. I knew that I was not going to be able to talk to the rest of my siblings. I knew that I was going to be cut off. And I think that if I had a thought too much about that, that I wouldn't have done it. And his mother? I didn't get to say goodbye to her to her to her her her to her her to her her to her her to say to say to say to say to say to say to say told told told told told to to't have done it. And his mother? I didn't get to say goodbye to her.

She sent me a letter a few days later, and she basically said that she was really disappointed and she asked me not to contact my other sibling. So yeah, that was pretty happy. When I left, the first night I stayed with my cousin, my uncle Phil gave me a job. I had a building company in Christchurch. That was a minimum wage job,

but to me it was great, just, you know, I was earning money. It was freedom in comparison to what I'd come from. I had a plan, you know, I wanted to go to college and within a year I did that. So I went to Lincoln University. It was a farming university and my goal was to study real estate and rural property management. I ended up doing one year of it and then I moved to Australia because I found kind of the ideal opportunity. I wanted to develop rural land. It seems that an American investor had purchased some 300 acres of land and Jason was hired to ten to it. And started clearing it with a really old broken down bulldozer and it was in a month

or two. The investor came over and he was pretty impressed with my work I think. Of course he was. The man has been working since the age of six. And I look over at his phone and I see his son and daughter on his screen shape and And it's like, man, she's pretty hot. So Austin was, how old are they? And he tell him, she's 21 and he's 18. I'm 21 too, kind of planting the seed there. Like, hey, you should introduce us. But you know, he looked like, you stay away from it.

But apparently he went back home and told her all about me so whatever I did it worked. A few months later I added her on Facebook and you know we definitely were attracted to each other. There's no doubt about that. And they started to chat and eventually they met up. And we're able to talk about very deep and intense things together and it just happened to be you know the stars did a line for us. And slow dissolve to?

We've been married seven years now. Married to a woman that he chose. Not from a list, and without a creepy-ass grandpa, leering over his every move. Or loobing him up. Blah. Here you go, Sonny, you're going to need this. Also like, never mind, I don't need to go there. No, you don't. So I have two young boys, oldest is five, and the youngest is a year younger, so. Are their names service and gratitude? No, they are not. It's Jonah and Josia. Both have the youngest is a year younger, so. Are there names service and gratitude?

No, they're not. Jonah and Josiah both have their own personalities for sure. It's not all me. I mean, my wife has pretty strong personality too, so a lot of that shone through. And his wife is allowed to pray without a hat on. Hallelujah. And what happened to his dad? He was burnt out from

working for the community for many, many years doing very long hours under a huge amount of stress. And I think loving the place like that does that to you because there's so many contradictions that eventually you get confused over what you believe or what you don't believe and so so, you know, he ended up leaving. But he didn't leave leave. No, he only left the community in New Zealand. He went to another chapter of the cult in Australia. His goal was to bring my mom over to Australia, but the leaders wouldn't give him permission

or help him with that at all. It wasn't until about two years later, that he actually went back to the community again and trying to get my mom out. And sadly that failed, his mother stayed, but he ended up leaving again with... One of my younger brothers, it was like 12 years old and I actually went and picked them up from the community and I took them out and then within a year of that another one of my brothers came out and I th and I to to to to to to my my my my my to my my my my my to my to my my to to my to my my my to my to my to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get th. th. to get my to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the th. the the th. the the the the th. th. th. th. thi the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee. to me me me me me to my my m. try. to my m. try. try. try. try. try. try. try I took them out. And then within a year of that, another one of my brothers came out and one of my sisters came out. So there's currently four of us siblings out of 11 that are not in the community. And what of the cult itself?

Still going? Well, it's a glarid whale is going. It's all his layout, it's just slowly collapsing under its own weight. And our dear piece of shit leader, he died. He died 2018, and when he did pass away, they put him in the ground like the very next day. They didn't want any family members or anyone for the public press of media to show up for that. When Jason first left, he didn't know what exactly he was

leaving, he just knew he needed to get out. It took me about a month to admit that it was a cult. I got a phone and started just looking around at things and I started to realize that there were certain things that made up what a cult was and that it ticked all the boxes. The major one was the fact the family cuts you off because like there's plenty of organizations that have a leader with a strong personality, you know, like churches and businesses and all that other thing, but they don't, you know, try and separate you from your family and your life. Mind you, those might be cults too, Jason.

And where is Jason today? I moved to the United States in 2018, got citizenship through. My wife is American citizen and almost straight away walked into Army Recruiting Office and I joined as a mechanic and I spent three years as a black Hawk mechanic and the last year I've been in training to be a helicopter pilot then it'll be fully fledged Army aviator with my wings and everything and at the stage I'm set to be fine. Well move over Maverick because there's a new guy in town and his name is Jason Christian from Colt to Copter.

Hi everyone. Jason Christian. From Colt to Copter. Hey everyone. It's been an honor to serve. There's one thing I actually did like about my childhood, that there was something taught about service that I believe is a good thing. The difference is that now I get to choose where my loyalties lie, and I'm doing this for my children and for their future, and for the legacy that I leave behind for them and the stories that they'll tell their children. If every story started out with genuine service and everybody gives something, then that's our way

of making the world a better place. That's my way. God, I love his story. He comes from a truly isolated cult, knowing nothing else in the whole world to being a pilot in the US Army. A badass, indeed. We hope you're doing very well, Jason, and thank you again for sharing your story with us.

We will put some links to the Gloryvale stuff in our show notes so y'all can do a deep dive into this cult. That's our show. Thanks for listening. And thanks for rating and reviewing us if you have done that. And make sure you spread the word that we are back on. Next week we'll bring you another great story. My partners and I wound up baptizing tons, hundreds. We just baptized families.

We wound up like in northern Argentina, finding pockets of indigenous people that had not assimilated. And we preached to the entire congregation and after we were done the entire congregation accepted baptism and became Mormons. These people are lost Israelites. Now they're gathered back into God's one true religion, the learning about Jesus Christ who appeared to their ancestors 2,000 years ago and we just baptized like 58 people and like in one day. So we thought we were living out a book of Mormon fantasy. We are like, we are Book of Mormon Heroes, man. Until next week, stay safe.

Hug your loved ones. And be grateful that your grandpa wasn't hopeful. Was I an occult is written, produced and hosted by me, Tyler Miesum. And me. Top Gun, Les Ayacousy. Found design and edit by Mr. Rob Perra. Call me Ice Man. Iceman, Rob Perra.

I'm just, I'm an extra. You know the guy who moves those little flashlights that bring the planes in. That's me. That's Tyler. Young and charming day Ryan. That's, right. I've got the hair. And I can fake an orgasm like her. And studio engineer today is Brett Neese. He is the sexy pilot that comes in to make all the other pilots jealous.

And our video engineer is Gabby Rap. Wrap it up, bitches. Yes, please. All right, Tyler. I want you to crow like a rooster. Tyler does. That actually says it. Cuckadoo! Cacadoodo! Cacadoodoo!

Hold on, I know what a rooster is. I've been on a farm. Buk-do-doodoo! Your turn, Miss Zoology. Moo like a cow. Uh-huh. City girl. Oh, look like a chicken. Cluck like a chicken.

Guck, cuck, cuck, cuck, cuck, cuck. Can you know, anybody know I'm being... Rest of Development, of course. Ha! A kudaloo-loooo. A kudaloo, loo. A kudaloo! A kudaloo! Good.