Was I In A Cult? - Hoyt Richards: After the Beauties

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Hoyt Richards, a "Was I in a Cult?" legend, is back. After our original three-part series, Hoyt returns to talk about Bring Me The Beauties, the new HBO documentary about his life inside, and eventual escape from, the cult known as Eternal Values. It's a conversation about what happens after your story is out there for all the world to see. What the doc captured, what still haunts him, and how love, family, and hard-won accountability helped bring him back to himself. And just when you thought Hoyt's story had reached its final frame, it may not be done with the screen just yet… Today, Hoyt is an actor, writer, and producer, who works to support cult survivors and families affected by high-control groups. FIND HOYT: Website (speaking, blog & cult-recovery resources): https://www.hoytrichards.com Instagram: @hoytrichardsofficial Watch his new HBO docuseries "Bring Me the Beauties: A Model Cult" — directed by Chris Smith (Fyre, Bad Vegan, American Movie), streaming now on HBO Max. ___________________________________ FOLLOW US  → For more culty content — follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacult SUPPORT THE SHOW Join our Patreon! Get ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations. (And our forever gratitude)   HAVE A CULTY STORY? Email us → [e-mail]

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Lipson or its affiliates. Guest accounts or personal recollections shared from their own perspectives. References to specific individuals, organizations, or groups are presented as commentary, opinion, and personal experience and should not be interpreted as definitive statement of fact. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. And I'm at this point in my life where I'm almost. more drawn to someone where I know they've been through some form of a shitstorm. I identify it with that more. That resonates with me more.

So if someone's like a recovering alcoholic or a drug issue or whatever and made it through, you know, I can relate to that type of experience because I had a form of it myself. And so, you know, I like to frame it as Earth school, you know, as long as you're breathing, we're still in class. Welcome back to our show. Happy. Happy show. Fourth of July, everybody.

if you had, if you celebrated, I don't know. We celebrated. You celebrated. I got to go to a Cubs game because of you. I know. Thank you very much. Yeah. It was a great game. It was a great game.

So I know someone who works for the Cubs, right? He's in the season tickets. And he loves rock and roll. And I send him rock and roll memorabilia, and he gets me and my friends tickets. So I sent him a very rare postcard of an early Guns and Roses party. And then I got an autographed. by Slash, and then I had it framed, and then I sent it to him, and he gets my friend's

tickets, including Liz, who sat eight rows up from home plate. Can't ever go to a game again now, unless I'm sitting there. Spoiled. You know, those men, they're big in real life. I know. With nice, juicy tuchisus guys. I will tell you, sports is completely different when you sit lower. They're bigger, it's faster, it's quicker, it's more exciting, you can hear it.

It's, yeah. And with the countdown on the pitcher now, the game goes, like, it's too fast. Not enough time for a year. Not enough time for a year. I'm sure you managed to fit it in. For those who don't know, I'm Liz Ayakuzi. And I'm Tyler Mesaum. And today we have a very, very special return guest.

A was I an occult legend, a hall of famer. The man, the myth, the former almost co-host of this show. Yeah, it still, it still stings just a little bit. He was the first choice. I get it. I get it. Hoyt Richards is back with us today. Now, if you listened last week, we re-aired our three-part episode on Hoyt's story.

Now, Hoyt was a teenage football player from a big Nantucket-Summering family who went on to become the Princeton quarterback and was one of the most famous male models in the world. He was really, really good-looking. Still is. Got the black lung pop. I wonder if he also had orange mokovrappuccinoes when he was having a bad day. For those of you that know all of this reference, you are now my best friend. So.

You have a lot of best friends because it's not. Of course I know. You're not talking about some obscure 60s film. You didn't know Game of Thrones. I'm like, I don't know. You don't. Comedy. Of course I'm going to watch it.

Continue. Also, Hoyt spent 20 years in a UFO, elitist, doomsday, spiritual, cultic group called Eternal Values, led by a man named Frederick von Miers. His real name was just Freddie Myers. That was his, what, stage name? Yeah, it's a stage name. That was a stage name. That was a stage name.

Hey, there's Rob, chining in. Hey, Rob. Hey, what's up? Rob is my professional working title as well. It's a good one, Rob. You nailed that one. Easy to spell. He was really Freddie Myers from Brooklyn,

but he claimed to be a walk-in from planet Archturis. A walk-in, meaning an alien sent down from the planet. All-guides, guess what? Arcturus ain't no planet, okay? It's a giant red star. But hey, it was the 80s. This was before people had Google, so might as well have been a planet, right? What you didn't know is that it's 8 billion years old.

That's billion with a B. Octurus is much older than our sun. It has superiority over our sun. And octurus is in the later stages of life. Scientists say that it will shed its outer layers and end up as a white dwarf at the end of its life, which is just a fancy way of saying, a dead star that ran out of fuel and collapsed into a tiny ball of carbon that is surprisingly dense. We covered Hoyt's story in a three-part series years ago,

but now his story is the subject of a new HBO documentary called Bring Me the Beauties, which you should definitely watch, especially before you listen to this episode. You should just watch it. You should just watch it anyways. I know our listeners, they've already watched it. Thank you for watching it. Thank you for coming prepared to the class. The series was directed by Chris Smith, who I'm a fan of.

He's one of the top doc makers in our course. craft. He made such great docs and series as he made Devo. He did a hundred foot wave for HBO. There's a fire festival one. He did one of those. Jim and Andy about Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman. One of my favorites.

He did Bad Vegan. He did Tiger King. And one of my favorite personal documentaries, American movie, if you haven't seen it, must watch documentary. And now he did Hoyt Richard's story. So look at that. And we caught up with Hoyt just a couple weeks.

back to talk about his doc and what it feels like to have the world finally see this story in a big massive way what the doc got right what it left out and parts of post-cult life that are a lot harder to quantify than just supermodel alien sex cult here is liz's conversation with the wonderful Hoyt richards we're recording so i just do it the famous Hoyt richards has entered the scene What does it like to be famous again? Yeah, right. It's different this time, that is for sure. It's a little overwhelming.

It's definitely a little vulnerable. I've been trying 25 years to tell this story. So there's a sense of accomplishment that we got to the finish line. I went through a period probably 15 years ago where I thought like, oh my God, I'll never be able to tell the story because it's like spoiled milk. It's not relevant. And I actually have discovered it's more relevant now than even when I went through it. So that distance gave me perspective to articulate, hopefully, more clearly.

But it is like getting naked in front of the world with your dirty laundry. Here I am. Just tell us what the dock is. Spoilers are all over the place. Where to find it. It's on HBO. It's called Bring Me the Beauties. Our guest this morning believe that they are, Space Brothers and Sisters.

Let me introduce you to them right now. Frederick von Mears is known as a walk-in. He claims that he walked into his body nine years ago. Hoyt is also a follower of Frederick. He claims to have known Frederick in another life in ancient Egypt. It's a project I was working on with Chris Smith, who's a wonderful and acclaim director. Well, we also have Christmas to thank for Tyler,

because without Chris Smith, you guys wouldn't know Tyler. That's right. That's right. There you go. I don't know if our listeners know this secret we've held on to, but Hoyt was supposed to be my co-host originally, and Tyler was our producer. Yeah, Chris came in and started this project. And I was like, listen, guys, I hate to do this to you, but my bandwidth is going to be used up by this project. And I had no idea it was going to take six years.

But I've been so thrilled to watch what you guys have done. For those who don't know the origin stories of the podcast, it was Liz and Hoyt. They were going to do their podcast, Was Ina called. I was simply a producer, just a guy who was just going to hang out and edit and make choices for them and do their bidding. And then Hoyt dropped off. And Liz was like, what the hell? Tyler, you should do it, right? You were just the spare tire until you became the only tire we had.

Yeah, but I get it. I'm not the first choice. I'm the runner-up. I was the understudy. I was the backup. I was the spare tire. I was the bridesmaid. I was the garf uncle.

I was the silver medalist. And he was always beating you up for modeling gigs, too. That's right. That's right. He would always get the cover. I loved the doc. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on it. I mean, as well done as it is, I think it probably raises more questions than it answers,

because I think it's a complicated subject, right? White Richards is the highest paid male model in the world. The world's most famous male supermod. The sexiest male model alive. Even when I was at the height of my career, taking transatlantic flights and staying in five-star hotels, I'd go back to New York where I was rolling out of mat, and sleeping on the floor. It was this kind of double life that I lived.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Frederick von Neers with another platform of the eternal values. But I did feel that survivors were treated as human and with respect, especially your story and you, which I was happy to. But I do wish there had been more of just your story in there, and what was going on for you internally. Yeah, it's great to know what happened. but I really am interested in the how and why it happened,

and what does that say about our vulnerabilities, and what does it say about the people that can exploit those vulnerabilities? But it's maybe not as sexy as some of the salacious aspects, and I certainly know I have been inspired by lots of stories that I found that are survivor-based. It could be someone who lasted in the ocean, fighting off the sharks, or had a limb cut off when they're climbing a mountain,

or things just, you get yourself an incredible situation, but you find your way out of it. And then, of course, I think with the cult-related stories, the most important part of the recovery process is there's always a victimization aspect, which is like you didn't want to get involved with this. It's not like informed consent going in, right? So there's always manipulation in things. But there's also the piece of like I participated as well. And I think that's where survivors struggle with.

But that's where the opportunity I see where the real growth can come about. When I finally had the epiphany of putting it together, like, okay, this is the proper. label. I was in a cult, the kind of the label where I would say the diagnosis, I know I could get the medicine. But with that realization of the diagnosis came all this rush back of all these kind of micro compromises that I made along the way. So in those moments where I'm seeing something going on, and I'm thinking to myself, I think someone's getting hurt here, it's abuse, they're telling me it's training, whatever their way they're framing it, I'm having all those kind of skeptical kind of doubts. All that comes rushing back and I can say, okay, at the time,

they were convincing me those are the dark thoughts don't pay attention to those but now I realize that those were accurate and now I need to take accountability for along the way I did know better and I chose for whatever reason not to and if I can dive into that part allows me to start to grow and say okay I can build on that because since I know even under the midst of all this influence I was still there and now that I know that I can know going forward I can potentially make better choices and that's the part to lean into And I think that's the part a lot of people run from. And it's that accountability piece that really is important. And then you want to start making amends to people.

These groups really convince you in many ways to hurt the people you love the most. You know, it was difficult to talk about those things. But the documentary, I think, represents that of certain things I did with my family that I just, I feel awful about. And albeit it's under the influence, but I'm still responsible. I played my part, and it's been important for me to take ownership of that. My older brother Rory, I thought he behaved as you would dream a sibling would behave when you're in a bad situation. He tried to do an intervention and get me out of it, which failed.

And I spent the next 10 years hating him, as exit counselors would have predicted. And I had my younger brothers going, Rory feels terrible. What happened? And I'd be like, fuck, Rory, you think somebody's going to cult? Fuck that guy. I got nothing to say to him. So when I finally had this epiphany after reading Steve Hassan's book, combating cult mind control, that was really with a life.

ball went off. Don't anybody try to tell me that I am a cult? I said, you know much about cult? I mean, he's like, well, no, no. I'm like, well, neither do I. I don't think it was a cult. Let me just try to do a little bit of research. And the best-selling book was this book

called combating cult mind control. Once I swallowed that pill, my first phone call was to my brother, Rory. I called him up and I said, hey, you know, you were right. I am so sorry for all that I put the family through and what you did. me through and what you did and what you tried to do. And he was so great because he said, listen, everything I've read told how hard it is to even get to the point where you are, you're willing to admit this. And what can I do to help? How can I support you? It took a while for John to get back

to his old self. It's difficult for anybody. I don't think anyone snaps out of it quickly. It took me another, I think six months before I had to courage to actually admit it to my parents and my mother. But those two characters in particular, welcome. knee back in the best way they could. It again shows you, I think, that love is stronger than my control. And one of the reasons cults do so much effort to isolate you from your family is because those type of relationships are the things that give you the chance to fight off this type of influence. And I tell families this all the time, like, that's why even if the person started to pull away, just do anything you can to maintain a bridge and maintain contact, because

decays to the point where it's just like texts or an email. If you don't get to see someone face to face and really feel how your choices are affecting them, you can really isolate yourself. You create this bubble around you where you just really have no idea how you're affecting these people. And that's why it's so important to try to have these type of contact with people. And in the same way, I think going forward in life, I now realize, as much as this experience has taught me a lot about a certain perspective I now carry on the world, I don't want to incubate myself with only people that agree with this perspective and live in another echo chamber.

It's really important to have friends and relationships that are outside the point of view that you have. So you constantly are getting new perspectives. That's been a valuable lesson to learn. It's July and it's hot. And honestly, my favorite summer clothes are the ones I can wear and do wear on repeat. Which, you know, I do that in all the seasons. I'm one of those jerks that can wear shorts in January. We also live in the weather.

of where that's possible. True, but even when I lived in cold, shorts in January, it's just my thing. Well, there's something about summer clothes, especially when it's hot, that I just want it to be easy and comfortable. And that is why Liz loves quince. You've heard it here. You're right. It's true. This isn't the first time. I do love quince.

We love quince. I can't take off their linen. I got to say, I love their linen pants, their linen dresses. They're just easy and comfortable. And it's quality European linen. whatever that means, it sounds fancy, but I hear it's better than the American kind. American linen. American linen, gonna miss your mind.

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Because of how cheap it is, I know. And ladies, don't know if you know this, but they have quite very nice jewelry. They have very nice jewelry. They have 14-carat gold jewelry. It's very pretty. They've got hoops, chains, you know, they'll make you look like you tried. If you don't know this, the reason they're so good is because they work directly with ethical factories, cut out the middleman. So everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than $7.

Brands. Yeah, I said 50 to 80% less. So you're paying for quality, not insane brand markup prices. So make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to quince.com slash cult for free shipping on your order, 365 day returns. It's now available for you Canadians as well. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash cult. Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash cult. Don't forget to tell them we sent you because we love you. We love you, Quince. Okay, we have a new sponsor, and I did not know I would be as excited about them as I am because it's gum. It's gum.

It's gum, but stay with us because larynco is not just regular gum. It's actually good for your teeth, right? I was personally so excited because I had to stop chewing gum years ago because I have very sensitive teeth. It's like you. You're very sensitive. Yeah, it's true. Sensitive. They're emotional.

But even the sugar-free. I couldn't chew. And now you're happy because my breath is great again. Thanks to Loreenco. No, but I like it. I really like this gum. You can chew it. You feel good about chewing it because it's actually doing something good for my teeth. Can go ahead, Tyler. Tell them. Tell them why it's good for you. And I will, Liz. Thank you for setting me up. Loreneco uses nano-hydroxypotide. Yeah, it does. Yeah, this is a mineral that enamel is actually. made of. So it strengthens your enamel and it repairs damage. You knew that before we did this out. You got to know these facts, Liz. Nanohyotroxy but time. Wow. Science gum. It's science gum. It is. For me,

it's simpler. I drink a lot of coffee, right? And what you need to know is that a ton of what you eat and drink like coffee and tea and acidic foods, they can really do long-term damage to your teeth. And Lorraine Co, they sent us some gum. I'm a, I'm a fan. I easily became a fan. I got rid of my other gum. I chewed it up and spit it out outside on the sidewalk. Shouldn't have done that. I did anyways. I don't care. And my mouth feels fresh.

And less sensitive to hot and cold, too, which I also have a problem with. So thank you, Larenko. It's a totally effortless way to make sure you're taking care of your teeth. Lorainco comes in a ton of flavors. There's mint. There's cinnamon. There's bubble gum and berry. But also, they have these mints.

Have you tried the mints? You've tried the mints, right? They're like tingly in your mouth. Yeah, they're nice. I like them. That's right. And right now, guess what? Here it comes. You're going to get a deal.

Loreenco is offering our listeners up to 50% off at bylorine.com slash was I an occult. That's by Lorin. L-A-R-I-N-E dot com slash cult. Was I an occult 50% off. Because I want to talk a little bit more about the Freddie of it all. You know, a lot of cult leaders become cult leaders just from what I've experienced on this show, is they fail in life at something. A lot of these cult leaders want to be famous.

They want to be loved. They want to fill that void, that hole that is so deep in these personality types. And then the narcissistic personality disorder that comes with that. And often the sociopathy that comes with that and the borderline personality that comes with that. And then what they end up doing is attracting people to make them a rock star, right? But Freddie was like a failed model. I feel like he was like in love with you. I don't think he was capable of love, to be honest with you.

It's extremely jealous? I would put it, who knows? Like, I can't get inside his head, right? Yeah. Quite honestly, I don't know if I would want to. But I do try to look at him with compassion from the point of view that clearly he had a difficult upbringing, you know, like being married to parents who were 16 and then I think he gets shuttled off to his grandparents.

I mean, it's a very murky past. I feel like because of that difficult upbringing, there was a sense of abandonment. There's this feeling a powerless. that comes along with it, and you're seeking out some sort of feeling where you can feel powerful, right? Frederick adapted himself to fit into those places, the Upper East Side kind of society. I think once he caught a wind of it and saw the other world that he could grab onto, that he held onto it dearly. Freddie tried to surround himself with people that he aspired to be, you know, we all went to Ivy League schools,

and he was just setting a brand that is the way that he wanted to be associated. I have with me four eternal cohorts of mine, all whom I've known since they were 16 years old. John Hoyt, who just graduated from Princeton University. Yes, Princeton. Go Tigers. Yes, Hoyt went to Princeton and was the quarterback of the football team

before he injured himself. Now, in fact, Princeton's official colors became orange and black in the 18. 1970s and the football players wore orange and black striped jerseys, stockings, and caps. And sports writers thought the striped uniforms look like tigers and started calling the players the tigers. Do you ever run out of mascot facts? I read a mascot book. I read two mascot books. It exists. It exists. It's boring to you, Liz. But for one of our listeners... No, I'm enthralled.

One of our listeners, in fact, reached out. Her name is Chandler Gamble. She reached out, she said that she loves the mascot facts because, well, A, because she's human and who wouldn't. But she actually makes mascot costumes. Wow, go Chandler. You never really think about the fact that someone has to sew those big oversized heads, do you? It's a real job. Isn't it great when people do jobs that they want to do and that are fun? Speaking of big oversized heads.

Back to Freddie. Because he was a grifter and kind of a con man. I just think he developed a really unhealthy coping mechanism. And though anyone who was in his near circle, you were going to experience some of the carnage of those type of coping mechanisms. You don't often hear the parents of cult leaders speak, and that was an interesting clip at the end.

She's adamant. Yeah. He wasn't a cult leader, isn't it? Yeah. He said he was an orphan, but his mother was alive until recently, I think, 2023. Poor Fred, he really got railroaded. Richard was a sweet soul, and he was never a quirk. There was no cult.

There was none of that stuff. That's the truth. Yeah, I think it's one of the unfortunate things with any sort of trauma. I think most people tend to run from it or deny it in some form. and I certainly can say I feel pretty confident in saying if you choose not to talk about or deal with your trauma, you will not heal. I don't want to be defined by this experience, but I realize how much this experience has tempered the way I look at the world. And I'm grateful for that lens because I feel when you lean into that trauma, you're forced to kind of find a way to forgive yourself. And that process is usually a lot of self-education to realize that.

these techniques and manipulation tactics pretty much work on everyone as long as you're receptive. And I never considered that this could be a tactic. You were 16. But no one warned me that those people were out there, right? I look at some of the things he said to me that day on the beach. He was very determined to give me information. One day I was at the beach with a group of friends,

and this gentleman puts his towel down next to me. and begins immediately engage me in a conversation. He would frame it initially by going, well, you're very smart, so you'll understand this, and then go into this diatribe, which means to me listening to as a 16-year-old, I can't just say, actually, I don't know what the hell you're talking about, because he's giving me this compliment.

And that's a technique, right? But Freddie was so incredibly friendly, and I noticed that he spoke to me like I was an adult, which I really appreciated. And then likewise, you know, when he took this moment to look over my friends and he goes, you're different than them, you're not like them. What is he saying? I'm special.

That sounds kind of nice. That's appealing. But the more important question should be, well, who is this person I just met acting like they know who I am? So don't give any credence to the message until you've vetted the messenger. But again, I wasn't taught that. I wouldn't have shown that. And I'm like, I didn't really have a plan. When I was 16, most of my life was thinking about scoring touchdowns, chasing girls, and drinking beer.

And I meet this guy on the beach who's really excited about his plan, and it sounds a lot better than my no plan. So I'm receptive. And that puts me in a very vulnerable spot. And that entry point was very kind of philosophical and just information-based. It wasn't like he came out and said, oh, by the way, I'm from the Star of Tourist and, you know, and at the end of the world is coming. Then I would have thought he was crazy. He talked about Eastern religion, then ancient civilization, little smattering of astrology. If you're at a point of your life, you're asking some of those questions that we just talked about.

And it could be at 16, it could be at 35, it could be at 55, but you're just, what am I here for? What's my purpose? What's it all about? And if you encounter someone that is providing answers from your perspective, you basically have the seeker and you have the teacher. So there's a cycle that's happening, right? And so what you end up feeling in that dynamic is you're accruing debt to this person. Like, how do I pay them back?

They're helping me so much. And then they'll ask something as simple as, oh, next Thursday night, there's going to be some like-minded people who are going to go have a spaghetti dinner. Would you like to come? Yeah, sure, yes. He was this big socialite from New York.

So he was throwing a party almost every night. And he was known to say only invite the beauties, just the beauties, not your friends, just the beauties. And they've proven, once you say that first yes, it's so much easier to say the next yes because it feels like you've relieved some of the debt, and it's not much harder to say no. And that doesn't make me naive, it doesn't make me gullible. It just makes me human. And that's why I feel like it's important to know these people are out there and these

are some of the techniques they use. This is so smart because the first yes is almost never the scary yes. Right. It's never like, would you like to surrender your autonomy to a man who claims he's an alien from the planet Arcturus? No. It's spaghetti. I mean, it's a party. It's a simple compliment. It's someone making you feel seen. And we can use that in any situation, right? Dating, jobs, pushy salespeople, self-help influencers. Anyone who makes you feel special and then makes you feel like you owe them. Maybe the question is, after someone flatters you, do you feel freer? Or do you feel like you owe them? Maybe don't go to that spaghetti dinner.

Put the fork down. Get out of there. Yeah, but if you don't go to the spaghetti dinner, you don't have the fork. Unless you come prepared with a fork. If you're the kind of person that has to bring your own fork to a spaghetti dinner, you probably should stay home anyways. Just a thought. Here it is.

You've been working on it. You've seen cut after cut after cut. Yeah. And all of a sudden, Forbes is calling. And the New York Times is calling. and everybody's... That part has been a little surreal and at times overwhelming.

I have to say that the media has been very, very kind and receptive and they've acknowledged that it took courage to tell this story. The thing is, a lot of times you have this great interview, but then the people who write the title, I think there's a different department.

So I'll have this interview that I feel like, oh, that went pretty well. But then the title says, Supermodel, alien sex cult. And I'm like, really? I was going to have our title be, young UFO believer. Yeah, I mean, that's clickbait,

but yeah, you can't, you can only control the things you can control. And overall, I felt the media and the reporters I've talked to, they've been fair, and there haven't been any gotcha moments like, so did you really believe that you're from the historic tourists? I really try to frame it from the point of view that these experiences are something that's part of the human condition. And what I mean by that is I would frame my experience most accurately as a 20-year cultic relationship with this group.

And I use that term cultic relationship because I'm trying to, in turn, it that there's a spectrum, not unlike autism, like the cultic relationship spectrum, the main factor is have you given your power away to someone else? Right? Because that happens multiple times in our life. And it can be, you know, it can be a parent, you know, a sibling, it can be a lover, it can be a boss, it can be a coach. Usually someone's maybe swept us off our feet a little bit and flattered us and maybe we start to seek out more of that attention. And then they start to withhold and we start to pursue. And then, then luckily not every personality does this, but some will then use that unhealthy dynamic and

now potentially control and abuse you. But once you know those dynamics, you can look at any relationship you've had and said, okay, those elements were either here to a greater or lesser degree. And I think in the same way, people have these kind of relationships where they get their power away, and they find a way out of that relationship, because eventually you get to the point, I can't do this, no matter how hard I tried. Most person find their way out of that relationship, but they don't necessarily deal with the trauma of how that thrash their self-esteem in that relationship. More often than not, they start a pattern of bringing those type of relationships into their life. With Freddie, I feel like what I noticed in your sort of coming together,

it reminded me of sort of a toxic guy from like a woman perspective where you're like, why won't you fucking call me back? And then you're like, oh, he called me back, okay, right? Yeah. And everybody said, oh, I drank the Kool-Aid. No, that's not what happened. That's not how it happened. And there was no Kool-Aid for a long time. The Kool-Aid gets divvied out slowly.

It's really interesting to see the world, as I view it now. We've fallen into this kind of binary way of thinking that that's accepted. Us versus them, good or bad. If you don't live in those shades of gray, that's the part that engages your critical thinking. Because the shades of gray forces me as an individual in a very subjective way to try to analyze what's going on. And I have to look at it from the point of view, like, what are the pros, what are the crons? And based on that analysis, come up with the choice. What am I going to do and not do it?

And whatever I choose is going to inform me. So to then go back and label, well, that was a right or wrong choice. Like, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't seem very constructive because I'm just like a work in progress trying to do the best I can and learn as I go. There's this idea of one size fits all. And I have religions do it. And a lot of these corporate people do it.

Like, it doesn't resonate with me. And it doesn't seem to be what I see in the world. And I think the more. we can lean into those shades of gray and really force ourselves to use that critical thinking, the better off we're going to make more healthy decisions and not give our power weight. One thing that was really interesting and touching for me, seeing a young little Hoyt. Well, I tell you, my dad passed away last year at 95, and I think about him every day. And, you know, he wasn't the most emotional guy, but I spent the last six years talking to him

every day. And that was really important to me. And I got three I love he's out of him before he died, and that was something. But when you look at that footage, that's where he showed how much he loved his family. You know, there's like 25 hours of Super 8, Super 16 footage, 10,000 photographs. I was one of six kids, so there's never a dull moment. We were just a tribe. And I think when that footage comes at you and hits you like this Americana, almost Norman Rockwellian stuff, you're like, wait, this happened to this family and to this person, and that's a very powerful device. That moment when you read the letter, I can't imagine. No, I mean, having to put yourself back in that mind frame, knowing what you know now,

knowing everything. I was dictated by Frederick a letter to write back to my dad, says, Dad, it was not with heavy heart, but with empty pocketbook that you wrote to me. I basically have no respect for you because you are spineless and have allowed yourself to be manipulated all your life. You operate under the whip of a wife who uses everything to get what she wants. You have never been man enough to stand up to her. I really felt it was important to show viewers that these groups convince you to hurt the people you love the most. Okay, they dictated the letter, but I agreed to send it.

Like, you know, it's like, again, yeah, you've got to own your peace and just go, that's not something I'm proud of. But it's really important and empowering to say, yeah, I did that. Part of the recovery is to say, hey, I don't want to hurt anybody. I'm not a bad person. I thought it was going to be something good. And that's all true and valid, but that doesn't take away the fact that I participated. But that piece is really hard to admit to, and it takes time to accept it and lean into it

and actually recognize the value in it. Okay, so you know our new sponsor, Tyler, whatnot? Yeah, I know. I know it. Of course. I'm on it. I get why people love it. I love it because I love a good deal.

I actually first heard about this because my friend's a seller on there. And she was like, you got to try. You got to try. The deals are amazing. And I was like, do I really need a live shopping app in my life? Can I answer that? Yes. Yes, you do.

The answer is yes. The answer was yes. So if you guys don't know, it is like a live shopping marketplace. You find deals on clothes, beauty products, bags, jewelry, kids' toys. And how it works is you're watching real sellers in real time. So they're showing you the pieces. They're talking through the sizes. They're telling you the condition of things.

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Brands. They have 10,000 fashion. beauty and handbag sellers on whatnot. That's a lot. It's a lot. The deals are crazy good. I got a tuckernock dress. Probably retails for around 300. I got it for 63 dollars. Yeah, I can do the math. That's a good deal. Yeah, it's a good deal. It's fun when you win to. It's like your name pops up. They're like, Liz Coosie won the auction. Don't steal my handle, guys. My wife, she got some great stuff. She got some nice, pretty stuff. I don't know what. I know she She was happy, but I was happy because, you know what, I got, I got some tools.

I got a new drill set. You did. Of course. Of course, that made you very happy, I'm sure. I'm deeply happy. I support a deal with practical applications. Oh. How much was your tool set?

It was $40. But easily, easily would have been $80 or more, frankly. It's a full drill bid, drill sockets. They were great. It's fun. I did it while cooking, which. I will say is the second best thing you can do while cooking. First is, of course, listening to this show, but second best thing is to shop on WhatNot.

So download What Not today. You guys can get $20 off plus free shipping on your first purchase. Just search What Not, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in your app store. Sign up. Start finding the best deals on the products you already love and know with $20 off plus free shipping on your first purchase. Just come on. Yeah, because you know what they say, Liz.

Why not, what not? They don't say that. They do. People I know say it. No, they don't. The part that really was the hardest was watching that contentious interview that you guys at the TV show.

Oh, my God. Like the Richard Bay. Oh. Good morning. Thanks for joining me today on people that are talking. I'm Richard Bay. Boy, because I'll tell you, I was shit scared. I mean, that's normally the guy, John,

Andriaros, who was the sidekick guy who had just left with Jackie. And I just didn't consider myself to be the best representative of what attorney of values was supposed to be. I mean, I just was absolutely horrified that I'm going to just somehow put my foot in my mouth. I think it's very important that we don't get into this whole idea, that the whole act of treas, it's very sensationalist. What we're trying to say is that we... It's not a sensationalist.

You say it as a fact. You understand what... And then, Freddie, like, it was the first time my heart kind of like, if it could, like, break for a cult leader. It was almost that cringe moment where you're just, oh, this is so painful to watch. We're not here to talk about sensationalism. The fundamental reason is why we're here. Frederick, you claim you're from another planet, right? I'm explaining it to you. I know, but is that, can you answer that question? Do you claim that you were from Arcturis? I said I am a walker, yes, and I did come from Arcturus. All right, what was your physical form of Arcturus?

Hydrogen light body. Because you really saw how, broken he was in that moment? Like you saw the truth because I always say once you boil these people down to size, like small sad people. You want to know what I really think? I think you found some young, impressionable people who are on a quest with spiritual, moral values. This is all fine. We'll be right back in just a moment.

It's one of the things that even when this project came about and it got been trying at different times to get this off the ground. And I, thankfully, I just had boxes of stuff that I had retained from my time with it. So I had this archive. And part of it was those cable access shows that we did, which is like, you know, Zach Galvanakis' two ferns, like just two people sitting there. Oh, it's archival gold for the documentary. Yeah.

And I remember I went on that show, I think, once, maybe twice, terrified. Because it was no preparation, just go there and riff. And that was terrifying to me because I didn't feel comfortable riffing. But more importantly, I was enthralled thinking how talented. Freddie was and John, all that. So when I started to dig out the stuff, I'm looking at those videos and I'm like, oh my God, I thought he was so much better.

I'm like, I can't show anybody this. They're going to think I'm an idiot for following this person. I'm like, I thought he was so smart and so polished. And I really thought he's just bullshed. So that was an uncomfortable wake-up call. But I fell in love with the narrative that I was going to be involved with this incredible movement that was going to help the world in some way. that I was going to have the opportunity to become less selfish, more kind, more compassion, more considerate, become a better citizen, become just a better version of myself.

Because the way it was framed to me is, oh, you've gone through lifetimes, and you've now earned this opportunity that if you can get your shit together in this lifetime, you'll never have to incarnate here again. And I stepped up to the plate and said, I'm going to go do that. Not many people who may would do that. So I will not ever beat myself for that. You know, initially, I had fairly operating critical thinking. and I would ask questions. And so eventually it's like, why do you keep asking all these questions? Look all these people have been here a lot longer than you have.

Shut the fuck up and get in line. Like, why are you being a pain in the ass? And then that just shuts down your critical thinking. Well, one thing that just took out is just how earnest you are throughout it. It's beautiful to see just how honest and open and real you are. Thank you very much. I appreciate hearing that. And it does definitely take work to settle into your own skin.

When you get to a place where you're at peace, with what happened and the role you played, then I can just tell the story without having to eject any emotion onto it, because then I'm just allowing you to have whatever emotional reaction to the story, because the story is what's important, not the way I perceive it. I've framed it in the past of saying, I took some very expensive and harsh lessons at the School of Hard Knocks. It would never go to something like, hey, man, what you need to do is have like a 20-year,

really bad cultic experience. But you come out of it, and you have this really cool perspective on the world. Like I wouldn't tell anyone that, but I am very grateful for the life lessons it gave me. And I feel like if that's what it took to give the lens that I now view the world, then so be it. And so, you know, in the crazy way, I'm very grateful for it. And Albert Einstein said, the most important decision you'll make in your life is whether you believe the universe is friendly or hostile. And so it's up to us. How do you want to look at the world?

And if you want to find a silver lining, you can find it. If you want to say I'm cursed and I'm screwed, yeah, you're right too. I hate to be the guy. I hate to be the guy that corrects people, and I'm sorry that I have to do it. Do you? I do. I do feel bad. But there is integrity.

But here comes the quote, police. All right, here we go. I get it. But that quote, allegedly, that came from Albert Einstein is lovely and it's inspiring. However, there is no evidence that Einstein ever said those words or anyone of note did. I'm sorry. You're such a buzzkill, Tyler. Well, maybe you should replace me, Liz.

Maybe Hoy should come back in. I'm already just the break in case of emergency guy. I'm R.C. Cola, Liz. I'm the celery stick, the last celery stick on the veggie tray. That's what I am. And I get it. I understand. I understand.

I'm Cheryl Ladd, who replaced Farrah Fawc on Charlie's Angels. Pretty good, but she's no Farrah Fawcett. I'm the Duke Boys, Koi and Vance, who replaced Bo and Luke Duke. I'm Mr. Furley. Who replaced the ropers on three's company. I hope everyone's understanding. This might actually cost me my job on this show.

It's really important to recognize that dynamic, that the cult has worked very hard to create that cultic personality. That was, you know, the false view. And I think it's a little bit like that with the cult personality. Like, I look at how it mapped on to certain issues I had with my family. My mother, bless her heart, had certain narcissistic tendencies. She had abandoned issues. Her dad had had an affair and the marriage had fallen apart.

And so she kind of had a little bit of a man-hater issue and that she was going to remake her boys in the way she wanted. So I'm thinking when I meet Freddie and get the idea to get involved with this group, that's me exerting my independence. I'm breaking from the family control to go do this thing and I actually get myself in just a worst version of what I grew up with. I talk to families when I'm doing these. kind of interventions with their kids.

And by the time I get involved, the kids either broken contract or it's minimized, and you're just looking for access to that person, right? And there's a lot of plotting and strategy that go, well, how can we get a private eye and find out, like, maybe they go to certain coffee shelves, where we can have a chance meeting with someone who might strike up a conversation and just get them some different information that are getting inside that bubble they're in. And for me, that's a lot of fun to try to figure out, like, well, how can we kind of penetrate this thing that they're caught in?

that can take like a year and a half sometimes. You're playing the long game. And the family gets very anxious and wants to be proactive. But as you get to know the family, you realize that the family played a part in this and that this is a family crisis. And the vulnerability that the cult exploits is usually very related to the family dynamic.

And we all have dysfunctions in our families. So the most uncomfortable conversation I have with the family at some point is if you want to be proactive, I might consider looking in the mirror, whether unconsciously or consciously how you contributed to that vulnerability that the cult exploited. And if you look at those things and maybe consider them and maybe make some changes, it'll have a profound effect on them when they return. The human reaction is like, oh, I should have seen something sooner.

I'm a bad friend or I'm a bad brother. It's like, no, none. It's like you want to have that conversation with them like it happens with Robin Williams and Goodwill Hunting. Like, hey, it's not your fault. It's really not your fault. It's nobody's fault. Let's move on, but don't beat yourself off for that. And it's really hard for people to just accept it.

Did you drop Goodwill Hunting on purpose? Because... I would have been very clever if I'd done that. Funny. Speaking of Goodwill hunting. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. But we talked about making amends and taking responsibility.

Has anybody from that group made amends to you? No. No one, not yet. I hope so. I really do. I had a friend from college who I had recruited in. So anyone I recruit in, I live with that. At the time, I was thinking I was giving them a solid on some of it.

But I had run into him at a college reunion about a year and a bit ago. And I said, I haven't talked to him in 20 years. He's still kind of a believer in a devotee. And I just said, listen, this thing I've been working on, I think it's going to come out soon. And you should get your ducks in order because it may be disruptive to your life. And, you know, he's just alarmed. And I'm like, yeah, I know we stand on very different points of view on how to look at this.

And if you want to give your side, I'm sure the production would be happy. He chose not to. But I am cheering behind the scenes, hoping that person reemerges. And I'm hoping we have that conversation down the line. We're back. Now, if you've seen the Doc series, you will see how Hoyt was just a badass model storming the world, getting his picture taken everywhere with everyone. and it seemed sexy, and it probably was.

Modeling, especially in the 80s, was where pretty people could become household names, making millions simply because they were chosen. Something I don't know because I'm still the B team here, but look, whenever that happens, there is bound to be some nefarious and possibly predatory action. Think about modeling and cultic relationships, and was wondering your perspective of the similarities between the modeling world and the world you were in with Framing. Yeah, there are definitely cultic tendencies within the modeling world. I didn't really experience it because I got pulled out of the needle in the haystack through Bruce Weber and anointed as the next it boy.

So I didn't go through the struggle of trying to break in the business the way others did, which is where you're the most vulnerable. And that's where the sexual harassment can take place and all. it was very clear the way I was looking at it with the lens with eternal values was we're spirit not our body and I'm cashing in on the fact that my parents created a costume that people seem to like and I'm just going to make money off it but you know though I think the whole modeling thing like anything there's good and bad and it's easy to frown upon it but my experience the people I got to work with I would felt like I just was so you know lucky and I could count my bad experiences maybe on three fingers. But I did hear plenty of stories where things that went down

that were terrible. And that's very sad. And I hope it's gotten better. The whole business has changed. When I was in it, the photographers were these wonderful image makers. And there was this whole artistic aspect to it because they were the ones that really built these campaigns and they had a lot of power. Nowadays, you got the phones. Everyone thinks they're a photographer. Oh my God. And a model. Yeah, photographers have been diminished. Now it's just, it's all about followers and influencers and all that. It's a very different business. So for me, it's like the modeling. I traveled the world on other people's paychecks and encountered incredible people, incredible cultures. That's an education in and of itself. Pasta, you couldn't eat. Yes. I mean,

I treasure all those opportunities. And that's why when I look at this experience, if I hadn't met Freddie on that beach in that day, none of that happens. And so that's why I think it's really doesn't serve people very well to want to just paint these experiences with one brush, because that's very black and white thinking. There were incredibly valuable things I gained from that experience. The cultic stuff was very heavy,

but it taught me a lot. The modeling, I don't know what my life would have been otherwise. Was that found upon by your parents? The funny thing is, and it doesn't come in the dock, but they were really uncomfortable with the modeling thing. The first question was like, oh, is you maybe gay or something? That was the way the reputation was back then.

But senior year in college, I had only been modeling less than a year, and I'd gotten to know this photographer who shot Ralph Loring, is Bruce Weber, and this art director, Donald Sturgeon. And Donald calls me up and says, hey, we need an older model for the next Ralph Loring campaign. Would you be willing to, like, suggest maybe one of your professors? And I'm like, what? You expect me to go up to one of my teachers

and ask him if they want to be a model? I'm like, no fucking way. You kidding me? I go, I don't know what you're looking for. He's like, well, just imagine yourself at age, 50 or 55. And I'm like, my dad's 56. So I sent him like a little four by five picture of my dad. They said, perfect. We'll take them on the next trip. And my dad worked for them for 10 years. And so once the shoe was on the other foot, things changed. But then the way it played out was,

as the Turner Values, forced me to isolate from my dad and my family in general. When that fracture went down, my dad was still in the industry. So he'd show up on a job and say, hey, have you seen my son? Have you talked to him? And so I'd show up at a job sometimes. and everyone on the set is just giving me the stink guy. And I'm like, what is going on? It's like, so when's the last time you called your dad, Hoyt? And I was like, oh, this. And then Frederick, I told you, you idiot.

So it was unfortunate because there were a lot of people that wanted to actually book us together, and we could have gone on some wonderful trips and had some great experiences, and that was all shut down. Yeah, it's just an unfortunate chapter in that way. My mother and dad told their side of the story, and they really threw Frederick into the bus. It was just a great big, fony sham.

It only widened the chasm between me and my family. And I treated it as, this is an example, what Frederick warned me about, that you can't trust your family and they're never going to understand what you're doing. What about your mom? So my mother and I had a complicated relationship. She was very strong-minded,

and I think I've always been attracted to strong women because of that. But she was demanding and it just felt like it was hard to make her happy. I would put her somewhere on that narcissistic spectrum. She had an expectation of how she thought her kids would be. And I think intuitively she was pretty accurate. But the problem was if you didn't measure up or portray as she saw you, she took it very personally. And that created that whole people pleasure thing that I've battled my whole life. And when I actually was going through my recovery and I this book it's a great book i recommend everyone to read called the wizard of oz another narcissist by eleanor pateson and it uses the wizard of oz as a metaphor for how narcissists operate that one really

was like taking shackles off my arms i get it now at that point my mother had passed away and i was in a relationship where i felt like i was with someone who's like all the worst parts of my mother i'm like how did i get here again and so i ended up stumbling on this book and this book gave me perspectives on it. And when I finally, I'm like, oh, my God, I am in a relationship with this type of person. And the two girls I dated before this was like that. And then, oh, my God, Freddie was like that on steroids. You know, the relationship of my mother was challenging, but it's really incredible that she was the first one that really identified that I was in a dangerous situation. When I finally got out of the group and she was battling this cancer, they'd

given her a year to live and she was now four years into it. And luckily, she lived another three years and I was still getting my bearings and luckily by the time she was really in the last woes of her health I was able to become her kind of primary caretaker. You can't heal other people's wounds but I tried to make a sincere effort to be connected with my family and by the time I came back my mother she was fighting cancer. I couldn't reach you and I was only one that realized you were in a cult. But it was this beautiful thing that we got to spend this time together and if I came out of the cult and was not able to have those years of my mother, I would still be in therapy. What I found to be so moving was just how vulnerable you still are when you talk about this and how you get very emotional in a lot of places.

I heard the stories and the fact that I didn't stop it or make a stand in some ways. One of the great regrets I was. I still hold and I just wish I'd handled it differently. It is, it's very cathartic to obviously tell the story and have it out there. I mean, that was a goal, but I'm really happy that my family has seemed to have liked it. And listen, it was hard. It was hard to live through it and hard to have you talk about it. But they also said, we see the greater good. I certainly wasn't expected it for to be received as well as it has.

And as many people tune in. So I'm very touched by that people seem to be. interested in the story. And you know, Bray Brown's a favorite author of mine. And she said, the cure to shame is vulnerability. So I've learned that being vulnerable really rebuilds your self-esteem because we're all just trying the best we can do. Like, you know, we're really just all work in progress. Who is Freddie to you today? I would frame it like he was a teacher, not in the way that I signed up for, but he taught me a lot about what people are capable of doing. I would rather know than not know. It's kind of like people were saying, like, was he in on the con? I just don't know, but it's just clear that someone who has damaged and creates some coping mechanisms out of their survival mechanisms can become dangerous. So I am in a crazy way, grateful for all of it. And I just feel I'm more aware and more compassionate than that would be otherwise.

Well, you've done so much amazing healing. And you are this amazing force today. And you are, you are. are so well-spoken and helpful and changing the world and all of these incredible things, ironically, that you set out to do, right? But what in your quiet moments, what still makes you sort of sad? I think hurting the people I love the most. You know, like that moment, how my dad must have felt when he got that letter and the things I said about my mother at times. And it seems I said that some of my siblings, my brother Rory, had said the silver lining

to something like this is it's not unlike the prodigal son where when you lose a family member for that long of a time, when you consider the idea, maybe they won't come back. But then they do, and then potentially you appreciate them a bit more. And I certainly know I feel that way about all of them. I've lived through both scenarios, one with the family and one without, and I don't want to live without my family. And so, um, did your dad get a chance to see? No, but he's watching, as is my mother. So, yeah, part of me would have loved that my dad could see that this journey had been on is finally materialized in a way that it has.

It's out there in the world. I think it would have been hard on him, too, because it was a sad period for our lives. But I think he would have loved seeing his footage up there and how beautiful it is, and people acknowledging that. How did he pass again? 95, just kind of ran out of gas. You know, his heart was getting weaker, and yeah, he just, He just ran out of gas.

We have to end on the biggest, the most uplifting thing. Everybody on the show loves a love story. So tell us about your connection. I won't go into detail because it wouldn't be fair without her being here. She is the love of my life. And they always say the one that got away in this circumstance, she didn't. I met Donna 32 years ago, and unbeknownst to her, she played a vital role to me getting out of the group.

We weren't supposed to have any kind of personal relationship, let alone fall in love. But her ability to unlock my heart in that way started to be questioning things because the told the end of the world's coming, the worst thing you could ever get involved with someone or have kids that would be the antithesis of what we were supposed to do. And when I was dating her covertly for those four years, I'm like, I don't know, this kind of feels amazing. I'm like, it doesn't feel so awful. And so that got me think, like, it wasn't really.

ready to like abandon things but I kept thinking if to be a spiritual warrior I have to be unattached and not like these things and so that that played a big part and then a lot of other things happened as well but I would say that was where the lock they had on the mind control started to loosen and you know I escaped within six months after I was forced to not see her anymore and it was kind of like the ultimate fuck you to freddie because they feel like love was the ultimate threat and you have found love so I think you're right fuck you freddie yeah That's right. Thank you very much.

And when you were making the doc, you got engaged, right? So congratulations. We're getting married in September. Can't wait for the invite. On Nantucket. Very, very, very full circle moment. That's incredible. Yeah.

Well, and you have a movie coming. The Gus Van Sant was a little drop, right? He's going to be directing your narrative. A dream come true. You know, he's one of the great American storytellers. And I just couldn't be. in better hands. Congratulations.

I'm so happy for you. I appreciate it. We love you so much. Thank you, Hoyt. Everybody go watch his doc. Liz, always a treat to see you. So grateful for the work you and Tyler are doing. And I look forward to see what happens next.

And hopefully we have more conversations coming. This has been wonderful. Yeah. Okay, love you. Love you. Bye bye. We just love Hoyt. We do.

We really do. Although you probably love him more than I. One never forgets their first. co-host Tyler. I get it. I get it. I'm the second fiddle. I'm that stale pretzel at the bottom of the jar. You know what I am? I'm T-Moo. I'm the T-Moo version when you want to get something and then you see the cheap T-Mu version. Maybe you're the Woody that replaced coach on Cheers. Maybe. Or Sammy Hagar that replaced David Lee Roth. Okay. You know? I'll take that. That guy. People know who Sammy Hagar is. That's true. And you know what? Like Hoyt, David Lee Roth had his own great solo career. And Hoyt is out there.

doing his solo career. I happen to have a band behind me, like you guys, Eddie Van Halen. I'll take that look. I am so happy that Hoyt is a part of our life. I called him the other day, and I just let him know that I'm glad that I am friends with him. He's a good human being. Because you've never had friends that devastatingly handsome before you just don't know what to do with it. Birds of a feather.

Liz, apparently. I love how he talked to a story. He didn't just say, like, I was duped. You know, I got brainwashed. Like, he just, he really takes accountability, you know, the painful parts that he participated, that he hurt people he loved. Yeah, family peace, right? His brother Rory, he attempts to get him out.

His parents waiting for him to return. His dad's footage. His mom knowing something is wrong. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. But in the end, what really got me is that love, Tyler, love was the threat.

Love was what the group tried to cut him off from, and love was the thing that cracked him back open. All you need is love. I can't remember who said that. I think it was Einstein. Leave it up to Hoyt to make this painfully beautiful.

But Liz, I have a question. How did you interview him? I mean, and sat across those piercing eyes the whole time. I had protective goggles on. I was like, no. The beauty shall not penetrate And now Hoyt is getting married

Which is fantastic for Hoyt I can't tell you how many times I tried to set him off On Nantucket Come on There's a few times I tried to set him up And he was in and out of Breakups and stuff

Yeah But he's happy So sweet Happy and happy He's getting married on Nantucket On Nantucket Yeah Full circle

Yeah More beauty He just He's got to do everything beautifully Yeah No notes for him No notes No notes

Except for one Liz Except for one note. Fuck you very much, Freddie. May your celestial ball of useless gas. Be denied reentry onto your star, Arcturus. I hope you're just out there floating, looking, where's the planet? I'm looking for the planet Arcturus. And all the fucking stars are like, this guy fucking thinks it's a planet.

It's a dwarf. Nobody tell him. It's a dying dwarf, Freddy. It's not a planet. Anything you want to add, Rob, to white dwarfs? He's just been there cleaning his pores and doing like facial guasha to get his cheekbones higher. Steph did buy me some retinol. I think that was like a hint.

Maybe start taking care of yourself. Rob just turned 40 last week, by the way. Don't tell them. They don't know. I mean, you look 42 to us, so I'm letting. You look great, Rob. You got at least three, four years of living in you before. things start sagging and

it all starts crashing down. Oh man. I mean the reality is I'm very stressed about this and I don't know how I'm going to go on. You know what the great thing about 40s is you spend your teen years trying to fit in. You spend your 20s trying to figure out what is right. You spend your 30s trying to get it right. Then your 40s, you just go, fuck it.

I don't care. I just, I don't care. I still very much care what people think. Yeah, that'll, and look at me, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, obviously, especially you guys. Let's take it home. Anybody wants to send any validation to me, please write in info at wasyanacolte.com. You guys can watch Bring Me the Beauties Now on HBO and Max, and if you missed last week

or you haven't listened to our original three-part series with Hoyt, I would go back and listen. It's one of our favorite episodes. I think, Rob, it was your first job with us, correct? It was. I think I worked on the last episode of the three-part series as my first. Strange. So I was right in the deep end of, oh, this guy's into UFO stuff now. I'm also, I kind of like UFO stuff. I could get into this. Very popular. UFOs are very popular right now. Look, if you have your own cult story listeners, reach out info at was I inacult.com.

Or you know what? Just say hi. We actually love hearing from people and we respond. It's not just Hoyt we love, it's you. We love Bomb You, too, our listeners. Yeah, and like the first teamers who signed up for our Patreon, where you can get ad-free episodes, and also tasteful nude black and white photographs of my backside, silhouetted against a muntined window. There's lost Patreon members.

Like you, our lucky new Patreon members, thank you, Lindsay, Jennifer Smith. Sonia Varies. Lovely name. Lovely name. Was I in a cult? This podcast you listened to. We're going to be back next week with a Dutch socialist cult.

It's fantastic. A woman named Hella. It's hella good. She's hella cool. And I would also need to learn in this party to be separate from bourgeois society because you get ideas in the society that are harmful. and this organization was going to be a safe haven for me. You know, it would be a place for my ideals,

but it would actually give me a basis to develop as a person. And, yeah, at the time I believed that. Was I going to call the podcast you just listened to is hosted, produced, written, edited, directed, financed, craft serviced by, it's not financed by me. By me, Tyler, Rudy Meesam. And me, Liz, walk-in Ayacuzzi. And Rob, dense carbon-void para. As old as the white dwarf, dying octaura son.