Was I In A Cult? - Liz’s Story - Pt1: “Hollyweirdest”

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Either Liz finally stepped up to the mic to tell her own story… or Tyler finally cornered her and hit record. Either way — it’s happening.After moving to Los Angeles with a toxic boyfriend, Liz leaves behind the Chicago comedy scene and finds herself nudged into a Hollywood acting class — one he introduces her to via a “free” class that’s anything but. What starts as a supposedly legit acting class quickly earns a reputation as “the place where comedy goes to die.” And yet… it’s somehow worse than that.Because this “class” slowly morphs into a spiritual self-help cult.Yes. An acting class cult.No, she did not see it coming.And neither will you.In Part 1 of Liz’s story, we dive into how this Chicagoan accidentally wandered into the hollyweirdest chapter of her life._______FOLLOW USFor more culty content — follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacultSUPPORT THE SHOWIf you believe in what we’re doing — shining a light on manipulation, coercive control, and cultic abuse — please rate, review, and share the podcast.Want even more?Join us on Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations.HAVE A CULTY STORY TO SHARE?If you’ve been part of a cult — we want to hear from you.Email us → [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Are we ready? Are we rolling? Are we good? We're rolling. Okay, we're good. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Wasay and Accult. I'm Lizzie and Akuzi. I'm Tyler Meesam. And why are we here today? What are we doing here? Where is our guest? Where is our guest? I guess it's me. Is it me? It is you. Liz Aikuzi is our guest today because by God she was in a cult. Guys, how long?

Don't bury the lead there. Hey guys, the secret is out. But if you've listened to the show more than twice, you know that Liz references her cult every once in a while. And I reference my cult, which I was raised as a Mormon. and we covered my episode. Are you going to make me cry? Is that what your goal is today? I don't make women cry.

You make yourself cry. Oh, put the blame on the victim. That's how my co-host works. I give you full rain to make fun of me today, if you'd like. Thanks. Or make me cry. I've really been tied down before making fun of you. Here's the question.

Can you interview as well as I interview? Now we're making it a competition? Tell you what, I'll do a mediocre interview and you do an excellent edit of it that makes it look like a fantastic interview. How's that? Perfect. The tables have turned. The fact of the matter is we have long delayed the story of Liz being in and consequently out of the cold. But it is time to do that.

And so here we are. I am excited to be here. I'm nervous. Well, I've never told my story in its entirety to the public. for sure. You know, there's a couple of great cold podcasts. You could tell your story out. Like which ones. I'll call them. So, just

so everyone knows, like Liz and I, we were introduced six years ago. Oh, my God. Yeah. One day I was shopping, and somebody called me and said, there's a girl that wants to make a podcast with somebody. And initially, it was her and another host.

And Tyler was just like, I'll do it. It's a girl. And her intent, Liz's intent, was to do it with this other gentleman. Far better looking man than you. It's far better looking. I'm not going to deny that. Nor will any of our listeners who have eyes.

It was Hoyt Richards, who we featured as one of our guests, who was a supermodel, told a great story. And so you just did commercial modeling, right? Catalog. Hand modeling mostly, yeah, for when people are punched in the face. That's my hand. And I was just going to come on as a producer. And we put the show together.

We sold it. and then a week before we were supposed to go to air, Hoyt dropped out. And I called Tyler and I said, you know what? We have similar senses of humor. You get it. You've got a good voice. I feel like you were made for radio. Is that a backhanded way to say that Hoyt is still prettier than me?

It is. No, you have a good presence. You have a good voice. You do. You've dug yourself in the hole, Liz. No need to put more dirt in it. But I just said, you know, you could be my co-op. Like, why don't we do this together?

And we did, and it was perfect. And it's been great. It's been awesome. And some people like us and frankly some don't. And fuck off. I don't care. Oh, fuck yourself. There's plenty of terrible podcasts to listen to.

And I invite you to listen to those. Gabby, send me a list of all the shitty podcasts people can listen to if they hate our show. It's a good idea. We'll just read those off for the next hour. Okay. Enough of that. So then we started making this show and it's grown in ways we could never have imagined. So thank you guys, our steadfast loyal listeners and all of our amazing guests that write in and share their incredibly brave stories with us.

Right. Like today's incredible guest. So brave. So brave. She is so brave. She's so fantastic. This is supposed to be you talking. I didn't get that script.

You didn't write any of that down. Okay. Now, we have covered some of the individuals who were in your cult. We have. Had a couple. But like we say on the show all the time. you can be in the same cult and have vastly different experiences. Let's start from the beginning.

You're from Chicago. So I grew up outside of Chicago, first suburb north, Evanston, Illinois. Do you know much about Evanston? I know Evanston because it was quite popular in the John Hughes movies. Am I correct? Correct. Yeah. Well, Evanston, Kenneworth, Wilmat, all of those sort of north shore.

You basically grew up next to Ferris Bueller, didn't you? Yeah. It was my neighbor. grew up upper middle class intact nuclear family parents are still married my parents you know were unique in a bit of a rebel of their own right my dad is an italian immigrant from sicily and came here der poor in 1949 on a boat you know my my grandma was 35 my grandpa was 45 they moved from sicily he was in the war fled the war got out and neither of them spoke english can you imagine moving to like a foreign country at 35 or 45, not speaking like English, taking your three kids.

Yeah, I have imagined it, actually. I'm considering it now, to be honest, but we'll move on. Denmark. Yeah. The reason they landed in Chicago was his aunts and uncles had settled in an Italian Jewish ghetto at the time. So he grew up very strict Roman Catholic father. He's done like a full 180 in his life since my upbringing. He wanted to be an actor, surprisingly. And my grandparents would not let him. You know, he was just very, like, strict Catholic boys' school, reading, study, study, study.

And he became an artist. He was a graphic designer by trade. My mother at Montgomery Awards in advertising. Do you know Montgomery Awards? The catalog, of course. Yeah, right. So my mother, quite different upbringing. She's a wasp from Cleveland.

My mother was a bra-burning hippie. Very different than my father. And so my parents met in their 20s. neither of their families supported their choices. Because the Waspies side was like, who's this immigrant? And then the immigrant side was like, who's this non-Italian, divorcee, non-Catholic, Episcopalian? And she had big, strong opinions about the Catholic Church

and the sexism within it. But we were raised Episcopalian. Did you go to church? I went to Sunday school growing up. We went to church. I hated it. So no fear of God, really? Fear of my father.

My father was scary. He used to talk about God and that type of thing, like mostly about like sex. Like no sex before marriage was a huge thing. My dad was very strict. He's a lovely man. I don't want to like paint him in some terrible light. I love you, dad. And he was there for us all the time.

He was a very present father. But just strict, very strict. But has since denounced Catholicism. Like he's done some big shifts in his life that. I feel like are abnormal for men of a certain generation. Unquestionably. It's hard for you to get out of your implanting that you had when you were a child. My mom is like very, very different than my dad. She's like always positive. Never conflict, never raises her voice.

I've met your mother. Yeah. I don't think I've met your father, though. You would love him. Yeah. He's a Cubs fan. He's such a sensitive teddy bear. And I think it's just when you grew up, he wasn't allowed to be an artist sensitive. It makes me sad. because who knows if he had been giving clearance to pursue what he was really interested in. Although he did pick up acting in his late 70s. Oh, really? Little dinner theaters? No, he got a commercial agent.

And he started, like, going out on, like, these Viagra commercials or whatever. I'm not even kidding. Can he get any samples? I mean, for someone. He wasn't Viagra. I'm just, I don't know. But they were funny commercials, like heart medicine and whatever it is. Yeah.

And I had so much energy growing up, so my mom put me into gymnastics at age three. Gymnastics is such a dumb sport because it's so consuming and it's like, why are we doing this? Yeah, gymnastics seems a little strange because it's not like Little League. Right. But it seems like gymnastics, you don't just do it to hang out with friends. No, and it's one of the most grueling sports ever is all consuming. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday was six to nine. Fridays was five to nine, Saturdays was 12 to 5.

That was my whole middle school. And the one thing about gymnastics, I will say, is it kept me out of trouble. I had to go home and eat and do homework and go to practice all night. So I was a very disciplined middle schooler. If I may analyze in some small way, there is some imprinting that can lead to cultic. For sure. Well, I think being an athlete is what led me to my cult. And I will connect those dots for you.

And we'll be right back. after this. And thank you. Wasa and a cult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Hey, do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket, your Quince

pocket probably, because those jeans are fantastic. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you can save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, potential savings will vary not available in all states. Once I got the high school, I was on the varsity soccer as freshman year. I was varsity gymnastics freshman year. I played tennis for a couple years. I loved gymnastics in high school.

I had a really great coach. And here's the correlation I give to my cult. So when you're doing gymnastics, you have to trust your coach within an inch of your life. I'm about to flip over the low bar, which that was my dismount, I would pirouette, do my giants this way, come over and flip over the low bar and land on this side of the low bar. Okay. I can do that. So I understand. Yeah.

Okay. And so to do that, I could hit the low bar, break my neck and, like, it's not like fantasy life or dustings. It's like actual. So the amount of trust I put into my coach is everything. And I ended up placing fifth and state my senior year in high school because he pushed me. appropriately in the way a good coach would. So at the same time, I guess I was sort of a class cloud. I always had this goofy personality, and I liked performance.

I did plays when I could, and I loved comedy. Then I go to college, started to do some more student films, and started to dip my toe more into acting, and I liked it. It brought out a side of me that I really enjoyed and definitely always gravitated more to comedy stuff. But what I thought I wanted to be in college was a sports anchor. I wanted to be on ESPN and interviewing athletes. So that's what I studied. And then I graduated and I realized I hate the news.

I hated it. And they make you like move to podunk Idaho and started some rinky. Worky way of the ladder. Yeah. And I knew at that point, like it wasn't my passion. because I wasn't willing to do that. And no one should have to move to Idaho. Right.

No, ever. Except for our listeners. Our wonderful listeners in Boise in the surrounding area. Right, exactly. So then what I ended up doing out of school, I moved back to Chicago, and Chicago is a huge what? Comedy scene. So I started putting myself into comedy classes. I started to do Second City and Improv Olympic.

And I was like, oh, my God, loved it. and I had a day job writing. I was writing college websites during the day. It was super boring, but great. So where was I? Can I take 30 seconds? Yeah. My editor, she finishes on Monday and she's got a few.

You're a terrible interviewer. What's this grade so far, Gabby? Can I just get on Grindr and fight a few dudes? No, just keep talking. Hyler needs dick, and I'm trying to expose my heart over here. Oh, God. It's about Depeche Mode in the hot tub. I'm literally texting about Depeche Mode in a hot tub.

Okay, we're done. That's the weird part of my world. Great. Apparently they were having sexual relationships in the hot tub, and our subject in the film doesn't want that mentioned, and so we have to soften it. Yeah, okay. That makes sense.

All right. So now I'm doing comedy. I'm starting to do some. acting. I start doing some commercials. I end up getting cast in a couple plays. I'm starting to do improv at night and, you know, joining different teams. And then I met a girl in the acting space through like commercial stuff. And you're just looking at how much I talk with my hands. Yeah, yeah, you are. It's okay. I'm very Italian. It's like people always tie your hands behind your back when you talk and I just can't do it. Don't do it. I try. Don't. Don't. Um,

So anyway, and the girl there was like, I've got a guy for you. It was the brother of her boyfriend. So I met this person. He was 6-6, big personality, youngest of nine, I think, of a huge... Irish Catholic family? I grew up on the other side of Chicago than me, so like the Western suburbs. A different type of Chicaginian. You know, oh, we're going to go get beers and get, you know, that kind of thing.

you know, a little bit more of a sharp Chicago thing going on. Anyway, so that turned out to be a very abusive relationship. I dare say this was my first sort of cultic experience because it checks all the boxes. I mean, the love bombing was next level. I mean, I think he told me he loved me on our third date. I mean, you're quite lovable, so it's not out of the question, but maybe rushing it.

It was overwhelming. I felt like, looking back, I couldn't catch my own thoughts of what I thought about him. And I also struggled with this for a long time in relationships. Like, I just felt like if they liked me, I had to sort of like them. Maybe it was like, I don't like letting people down. So I always struggled with like, not saying no, but I guess a little bit of like, no, I'm not into you. He just swept me off my feet, but like I didn't even know how I felt about him kind of thing. But then I was just in.

Like after those three months, he was like a rageaholic and a sex addict for sure turned into like an extreme porn addiction as well. You know, I'm young and I'm just like, you think those first three months are who they are. Right. And so you're like, wait, but you spend your whole time like waiting for that person to show back up and they never show back up. Yeah, right. Because that's not who they are. So it's the biggest mind fuck ever. The intermittent abuse was really screaming and blaming and just really toxic and then groveling and I'm sorry and this and that and this and that.

But he was like if you met him, he was charismatic and funny and the life of the party. So everybody sort of loved him. But I always be like, that's not him. Like I needed a therapist. I needed like somebody to like tell me you're an abusive relationship. So then I'm in this play and with these. Northwestern grads, one of the girls was like, I'm going to L.A. for three months, do you want to come? And I was like, huh, yeah, I do. And so I ended up coming out here with her.

Fresh up the turnip truck. Just a bright-eyed bushy-tailed little girl in the big city of L. Yeah, it was in Beverly Hills adjacent. We shared a king bed, and we were so silly and goofy, and we were just having fun. I was still in this toxic relationship. who was like wanting me to come back to Chicago and like just tying me down, holding me back, but still I was like attached to this person. And I worked at a casting office. I was a casting assistant. So I was pulling up all the headshots.

I was the reader in all the rooms. It was like introduced to Hollywood. And then the time came up of this like short-term lease and I ended up going back to Chicago. Mostly, I probably because I was in this relationship there, and I was like, you know, I want to live in L.A. I've now tasted it. I get it. It's warm. It's very warm.

I want to go there before the winter hits, but decided to move. Well, my boyfriend at the time decided he wanted to move to L.A. too. And I'm like, okay. And that was like the dumbest thing I ever did was let him follow me to Los Angeles. We did like a trial live together for three months before. In Chicago, yeah. And, like, he used to, like, lock me out of the house. And just, it was just bad.

I'm sorry. Yeah. And then it's, like, me, like, what did I do? And when you're in it, they project, right? So they make it seem like everything's your fault. So you're, like, constantly trying to change your behavior because you think you did something wrong when you did nothing wrong. Find a good partner, everybody.

Right? And I know it's hard meeting people, but don't be with someone if you don't really think you should be. It's too important and life's too short. And as someone who has had bad relationships and good relationships and was a bad partner and a good partner in a bad relationship, I'm insanely happy right now. But just be aware and listen to your friends when they tell you that the partner you have isn't very good, especially if they do it in unison. Yeah. Okay, that's my PSA. Thank you. Add some funky music to that, Rob. When you told me you were with Adam and that you were going to get married, I remember that phone call. And I was like, is he good?

And you're like, no, he is. He's really good. And I'm like, no, Liz, I'm fucking serious. I know you've had a bad relationship or two. Is he good? Yeah. And you said yes. And he is good.

So I'm glad that you've learned your lesson in a horrible way. Like Adam's wonderful, but he was so wildly different than. the toxic people that I was with. And I was like, okay. Actually, there's some good advice in there. There you go. Okay, so hack up a U-Haul with your little stuff. And we drove across country.

I just kept going to L.A. And we were moving into an apartment together. And we don't know anybody. What do we say all the time about cults, Tyler? Don't eat too many snacks at the first meeting. That's always, yes. And one is the biggest time people are most susceptible to a cult. Typically from the guests that we've had and the people that we've spoken to,

when they're in an area of transition, when they've just gotten a divorce, they just graduated college, they moved to a new town, they're in a new job. Oh, wait. The dots connected. So I was brand new to L.A., just sort of brand new, and I had this toxic boyfriend. And because he was in AA, so he starts going to meetings and he starts meeting people, way easier than I'm meeting people. Also because he's outgoing and funny and goofy and people like him except for you.

You don't like him. Correct. I get a job as a waitress at the Avalon in Beverly Hills. So I'm working nights. He's working days. We're passing ships. And he's doing his meetings or whatever. And he gets a sponsor.

So he meets a sponsor named Alex, a successful man in Los Angeles. and they start going to meetings, and he's, let's give my ex-a-name, pick any Irish name. Sean Murray O'Connor. Jonathan, Jonathan, Johnie, Johnny, Jonas, Jonas. Johnny-O, no. That's actually my cousin's name. Why don't you come down, John. Finnegan.

Finnegan's not. No one is named Finnegan. That's like a name of a dwarf. Connor. Connor. Conner. Conner it is. So I'm in a relationship with Connor and he meets Alex. And Alex says, you got to come to this free class I go to. Free class. Free class. Red flag on the free class. It's a free class. Here's a pamphlet. There's snacks. Snacks. You're new here. Run. And he says, come to this free class. There's this woman. She's incredible. She can read you. She can help you. She's a human behavior expert. She teaches this free class called Free Fridays. It was Free Tuesdays at the time. Free Tuesdays. Yeah, but free Tuesdays just does not sound good. No. Free Fridays is much better. Yeah. So he goes to this free class. Red flag number two, the suggested donation is one week's salary. That's no suggested donation for something free.

The suggested donation. And why? Because you're proving your worth. Yeah, you're proving your stupidity. One week's salary? Connor did not do that, but I remember Alex did that. So Connor starts going to these classes and coming home to me. And he's like, in a better mood. And he's being nicer to me.

And he's coming home to me and telling me all about it. And oh, my God, this woman and this and that. And you can't believe this miracle in that. And I'm like, what? Like, I'm from Chicago. Like, we don't do this kind of shit in Chicago. But I'm like, okay, whatever. You're like spiritual man with your AA.

And then a few weeks go by of this. And then at the same time, I asked for this bitch, Tyler. I asked for her because I had moved here and I stupidly was like, well, what if I tried some real acting? I've only done comedy. So I better take an acting class with a real acting. And I don't want any acting coach, Tyler. I want somebody who's going to push me. Just cut back to my gymnastics days.

I wanted to find the coach. I want somebody who's going there who isn't afraid to push me, who's not afraid to challenge everything inside of me to make me see what I can be as this performer, as this creative person. Back on the pommel horse, young lady. And a couple weeks into Connor going to this woman. I think he said signed up for their life class.

He's like, did you know she teaches acting classes? If you want to, come to the free class. Just check it out, get a vibe, and then you can talk to some of these people about her acting class and see if it's something you want to do. Besides, it's free, what's it going to hurt? Besides, it's free, what's it going to hurt? Dun-dun-dun-dum. We'll be right back.

Let's talk about quince. Yeah, enough about me. I got to talk about quince. I got beef with you, Quince. What, Liz? God, we love quince. Stop making so much new cool stuff, Quince. It's January.

I'm trying to be responsible. Then Quince is out here dropping new arrivals. Like, hey, want this gorgeous top? That's normally $300. So for only $50, you want it, don't you? Okay, to be fair, those who are new to the Quince called Quince is the brand that makes luxury basics without luxury markups like cashmere, silk, denim, Italian wool, all the fancy stuff. But affordable, it can be dangerous. And I felt right into that trap.

Again, I just got slipper clogs. They came back in stock. They were under $60. Usually they're $150 in the real world. I told myself it was a holiday gift to me. So there you go. It's for me. From me.

Thank you. You were a good girl this year, Liz. You earned this. Now, well, I mean, I didn't get you anything, Liz. So you can say they're from me. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. You can Venmo me.

$60. Also, I found the perfect pair of jeans from coins for $50. I had COVID last week. Okay, not the point. I wore these jeans actually more. multiple times because they were that comfortable. I went to the farmer's market and a man, he was like 65, he stops me, he lows. Literally, I like your jeans.

No man has ever said that to me ever before. He wasn't hitting on me. He genuinely was like, I've just been looking for a very nice pair of jeans. A quince admirer hiding behind the pasteurized organic duck eggs. Not a coincidence. Hmm. Like that? What I did there?

I don't get it. What do you mean a coincidence? A coincidence? A coincidence. Well, I see now. The punch is to the left. Now is the time, everyone. Word comes way too highbrow for my style of comedy.

Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. You will be pleased. Don't wait. Go to quince.com slash cult. Don't forget slash cult. For free shipping on your order, 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too, eh? That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash cult.

Free shipping. 365 day returns. Just leave it to Tyler to do the spelling of words. Quince.com slash cult. You know, we talk a lot about therapy on this show because we're very pro-therapy, and we believe therapy is a privilege, not a punishment. It's helped almost all of our guests process the aftermath of leaving a cult. Like your guest today.

Yeah, that's me, guys. I'm currently in therapy. And after some trial and error years ago, I finally found a therapist who works for me. me. We're going on six years now. Honestly, Tyler, it's my longest relationship. You don't have a, you don't have a response? I, I, no, we've heard enough about your relationships in this podcast, Liz, nothing more to add. But finding the right therapist can be almost as stressful as the reason you're in there to begin with, which is not how it should be. That's mentioned finding the one who takes your insurance. I mean, that's an uphill battle. Affordable, accessible mental health care

is still, unfortunately, out of reach from many people in this country. Which is terrible and which is why we're excited to tell you guys today about Rula. That is RULA. It's a healthcare company that helps you find licensed in-network therapists. Guess what? Most people pay about $15 per session per session. Some pay nothing. How great is that?

Yeah, and it's not one of those sites that just pairs you with the first random therapist available. Rula actually takes into account your back. Your goals, your preferences, and gives you a list of therapists who actually make sense for you. Because as somebody who's had the not right therapist before, finding your fit makes all the difference. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com slash in a cult to get started. After you sign up, you will be asked about how you heard about them. So please support our show.

Let them know that we sent you. That's R-U-L-A-D-com slash in a cult. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. So I wanted to try serious acting. Purely on the premise of her, she's an acting coach and sort of the type of coach I was, I thought I wanted or needed. But, yeah, weird, like the first class was, it was in Toluca Lake, in the valley. Okay. The free class was in a yoga studio somewhere.

Okay, so you walk into this place. So I walk into this place. You walk in with your boyfriend? Yeah. What did we name him to remember? But we wanted like an Irish name. Was it Killian? Okay, so why don't we call him Killian?

And everybody's sitting in a circle. So the woman at the front of the circle, the one running this, are we saying her name? I think just no. It won't matter. Our Stueless nurse, as they did in the previous episodes, found her name. We can call her Sandy. Let's call her Sandy.

Or does that sound too, Greece? Sandy, I love you, Sandy. Sandy could be a call leader? Sure. All right. So Sandy is the leader of this ship. What does she look like? She's older now, but at the time she was probably in her...

She's older now. Right, obviously. No, explain that. Well, time goes by and on a new age. I'm trying to think. I think she was like late 30s at the time. Okay. And she's average height, long brown hair, piercing green eyes,

and she had that narcissistic stare from the beginning. Something in her eyes was not trustworthy. But I didn't know that at the time. So what happened during the class? I honestly don't remember the first class. I'm sure it was a lot of bragging about what she's done for X, Y, and Z. And usually it's one person gets brought on stage to work out a problem or an issue. Or she's just pontificating about nonsense.

And it's all about being present. So the first class ends. And instantly, I'm attacked by two women. Super nice, but I'm so great to have you. Killing, whatever is name. as we were so happy to meet you. Your aura is beautiful. You have such a beautiful aura. And I'm like, what is happening in this town? I heard you're interested in her acting class. Guess what? You can come audit that on Wednesday. And first class is free. So I was just overwhelmed. But at the same time,

you know, I'm just newly from Chicago. All I've heard is L.A. is full of weird, like, meditation, like spiritual. That's such a thing of Los Angeles. And so, I was, this is weird. These people, but they're all nice people and they're all happy and everything seems fine. And so I then end up going to the acting class. And this is I go solo. So this is at a small, what do they call them? Like a small black box theater in Studio City.

I'm picturing, by the way, Barry, the HBO show with Bill Hater. Yeah. Of course that's where I'm going to put this setting. Right. This black box theater with small seats. But it was tinier. And I was sitting in the back. I was auditing with another girl, so all the auditors in the back row.

And she finally comes out and she takes the stage and she just talks for like ever. It's a little bit confusing. I was like, this is going on a long time. Why is she talking about India? Why is she talking about this spiritual thing? You know, it was a little bit weird. You know, and then she's flanked by her favorites, which were Jessica and Lindsay, who I had on season one. And there's a pussycat doll, and she starts going off about Jessica and the pussycat doll.

And oh, my God, and without her, Jessica wouldn't be where she is. And then she starts pointing out some other person and their movie that just came out. And if you want your life, that's what you're getting. Very, like, coachy mentality, which, okay, this lady's a little cuckoo, but she means business. So then people got into stagework. And the tools that she has are really good. and she does coach you within an inch of your life, like Hitchcockian, you know, almost.

Like, pause, stop, that line, no, you're in your head. You didn't mean that. And then she'll coach you into something in your life because that's where your life class comes into hand. Oh, of course. Because she's learning about your life in the life class so that she can utilize that to manipulate you in your acting work. To her credit, a lot of it.

acting coaches do that. That is what acting is. It's telling from personal experience, substituting it, finding the personal connection to the character, to the experience where you aren't just line reading but saying something from a true place. And the work was impressive. It was good acting. I was watching good acting. She's definitely putting on a show for the auditors. And she does a very good job of cultivating untouchability, especially if you're new, like, don't talk to the teacher. You can talk to Sarah, Julie, or Bethany, but you can't talk to the teacher because that's privilege. And so you go for tea on the break, but only the inner circle is getting to talk to Sandy in the tea break. But she's aware of everything around her, and then she turns to

the auditors and she says something specific. She's like, I saw you in the free class with your blue eyeliner from Chicago. You won't last here six months. Miss Competitive then says, Fuck you, bitch. Watch me. Right. Right. It's like she is very psychotically astute, but she knew the competitive way for me was what was going to get me in. Because she didn't say it like that to everybody, and everybody has her own story. The tools of manipulation, probably talk to your boyfriend and said what she like, learned a bit about your competitiveness, and then utilize that in the class. 100%.

Okay, so you sign up. So I end up signing up. How much money? In the beginning, I think it was $75 a class. And at the time you're doing... Four classes a month. So $300 a month. So this was what year?

This was 2008. Okay. So yeah, 2008. $300 was like $5,000 in today's... I mean, it wasn't cheap. So you're doing what you're supposed to do in the pathway to achieving your dreams. I think there's a lot of working. actors today who started an acting class. I do want to talk. Now, most people probably assume the

art of acting is nothing more than you learn some lines. You pretend you're a character. You show up on set. You do it five times. Why would one need classes? First of all, it's practicing. And it's not just showing up and doing some lines, not good acting. So learning how to access those parts of you that are scary or you may need a little coaching or guidance if I'm doing proper analysis on the piece and learning how to get in and how to access that and the best way to find the character as it relates to me. And in class, that's what you're doing. You're getting on stage. It's an emotional, deeply emotional workout. I mean, acting is so, it's such a ripe place for a cult, right? You're already manipulating emotion in acting. That is what you're doing.

No wonder there's so many acting cults. And also become a character that is not you. Also, a director is God in many ways. Like the director, when you get on set, he is the one who has a vision and you are supposed to listen to his vision. That's why actors love direction. We love it when you tell us what to do because then that's what we're trained for. You sign up. You're excited.

Yeah. And so I start going to the class. I'm inspired. I'm seeing professional actors do. really great work better than the shit I was seeing on TV. The people are my age. They're cool. They're really friendly. They want to better themselves. This is all about making their lives better. And they feel like they found a thing. This is the thing. They found something that's going to make them stand out. I was very nervous to go because she's tough. But she sets it up to be that way.

She was loud. She was demonstrative. She was in your face. She talked really fast. She commanded the room. She was charismatic. And she spoke with utmost authority. It was this was what was going to change your life. There is something about individuals who can command a room. And where is that type of person who can come in and hold a presence? Most people don't have a presence. So when someone does and exudes confidence, we naturally glom onto it. And I liked that she was a strong woman. I thought that was great. And there was a lot of things that she represented that were appealing. You do a scene, and then she's taking notes the whole time,

and then she goes through line by line, and she's coaching you, and she's manipulating you emotionally, and she's getting you, doing whatever tactic she needs. to get you to get there. She threw a shoe at somebody once on stage because she wasn't feeling it. She wasn't angry enough, the actress, according to Sandy. So she threw two shoes at her to piss her off.

It worked. The scene was better. But like, that's abuse. She wasn't afraid of getting on stage and getting physical with you. Like, exposing really traumatic things of your past in a very open way. If you had any sexual abuse,

She had no problem with calling that out and using that to get you to feel more for the purposes of the scene. And it's all for you, Tyler, because if you can access that more freely, more available, more without fear, this work makes you a different kind of actor. She's doing this because she's trying to get you, Tyler, to be the best creative you can be. And, you know, I'd never been in an acting class, really. So I thought this was normal. I thought this was every acting class, which she claimed as her teachings and her work. It's all stolen and borrowed from many different places.

I think we don't have enough of a sense of her and who she is. She's from Beverly Hills. She comes from an affluent family. Her father was a famous actor. She's a twin. Her twin was on a very famous television show. I don't even think she graduated fully high school. She had severe learning disabilities growing up.

She went right into acting, you know, And she studied with Roy London for, I think it was at least 11 years, and she was sitting next to Gina Davis and famous actors who kept working, and she just couldn't do it. She was a failed actress. And coupled with that, she had severe abandonment issues. Her dad was never around. He was a traveling actor, and she had a very absent father.

So her abandonment issues were up the wazoo. She was married. She had four kids with this person, an incredibly messy divorce, and was a single mom with no job. And she started coaching fellow actors on their scene work and found that she was good at it. And at some point, she also got sober. And I think a lot of her early recruitment

happened within the walls of Alcoholics Anonymous. And she used that to start to pull in these actors, I guess, sober actors. What a fucked up place to recruit people. Okay, so you're in this acting class. You're learning a lot. Are you going on auditions? Is it helping you? I am starting to go on a lot of auditions. And yeah, I'm using the work.

It's pretty intellectual at first, like breaking down the scenes the way she does it. I started booking some jobs, some commercials. And your boyfriend is still in it? So, okay, so here's the deal. She's an acting coach. But then she's also this human behavior expert who teaches life courses. And that's where, like, my boyfriend got into her. That's where his sponsor.

went because they're not actors. She helps people that are outside the creative space just as a life coach. Because obviously she's trained, qualified. Fully. For that.

When you make up a title called Human Behavior Expert. It's hard to argue with that title. So for how long were you just going to the acting class? I'd say a couple months. And when did the life class start to get introduced to you? When you're on stage

doing shitty acting. She blames it on you not being in her life class. And eventually, she said, I'm tired of teaching. If you guys don't want to grow your life, it's too much work for me to pull this out of you. So if you want to stay in the acting class, you have to be in my life class. How's the episode so far, Tyler? What are your things? I don't know.

I don't give a shit. You think I listen to this podcast, Liz? No, I don't listen to the podcast. I only skip it just to get to the ads. Yeah. I'm here for the ads. Well, I was liking it until. I heard who the guest was going to be.

And I was like, save my ears for next Monday. Oh, shit, next Monday's part two. Save my ears for February. I'm just going to boycott this podcast until February. Are we going to get to the ads now or what, Liz? They're paying us millions of dollars to read these ads, millions of dollars. I'm apparently, this is my transition. I'm apparently kind of person who texts about sheets now, Tyler.

It was a very clean, clean segue, Liz. you're a true betting evangelist. Because when you find something this good, you want to tell people about it. Because I'm a kind person and I want to share. Bowling branch is what we're talking about. Bowling branch sheets, specifically the signature sheets

and the waffle blanket, which, uh-huh, completely change how I sleep. Yeah, I mean, look, I love betting. I used to think betting was just betting, right? It's a blanket. If you buy a set, it exists, you move on, you sleep under it.

But I love mine. Sheets. I'm not just saying that because they're paying us millions of dollars. Millions. These really are good sheets and they get softer every time you use them. The first time I put the waffle blanket on top of my shoes. I was like, okay, it's a blanket, relax. But I swear by this blanket guys, it's weightless, it's warm, buttery soft. Yeah, these are the first sheets that made me say out loud, I love my betting all the time. All night. I keep Diana awake just by saying I love this betting all night long. fair, but you're just...

Talking about betting. Mm-hmm. I'm now the person that refuses to use the old sheets when the nice ones are in the wash. I'm like, nope. Yeah, those are for the guests, Liz. Those are for the guests we don't like, which is everyone. Discover a softness. Beyond your wildest dreams, guys with Bowling Branch, get 15% off your first order,

plus free shipping at bullenbranch.com slash cult with our code cult. That's Bowling Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch. dot com slash cult. I could keep spelling the rest of the ad. You're very good at spelling. Thanks, Liz. Thanks. You're very good at reading letters on a page that's already spelled it for you.

Thanks, Liz. She's so nice to me. Code Cult, 15% off. You can get it. Exclusions apply. So, you audit the life class. It's at her house in Van Nuys. It's in her living room.

You have to take your shoes off at the door. She's got a bunch of little helper bees running around, setting her flowers, making sure her chair is just right. She has these little yappy dogs and one large dog, and she had the worst dogs. She just comes in. She loved a long, open sweater. That was her uniform. Robe? Yeah.

It was robe-like, but it was just like a cardigan, a long cardigan. She was in white, and she had two tables next to her. One had beautiful flower. and one had this Buddhist statue, but I forgot which god. It was a Hindu god. Nice sheepskin rug on under her feet. She had this big wooden chair she would sit on with all of her nice, plush, whatever, adornment. And then you were one level down facing her in these little black backjack chairs. And you couldn't put your feet out like straight, because that is a sign of disrespect in India. So, so according to her. So you'd have to fold your legs in.

like crisscross, applesauce. Your toes can't face the guru, Tyler. Guru? What? I thought you were my acting coach. And what does the class consist of? It's like group therapy, but it's boundary crossing group therapy. She would say that she's channeling information that it comes through her. She would always talk about, oh, I'm channeling right now, my back's getting really hot. Feel how hot my back is.

That's me and this is a big channel. Something's coming big through me. Who was she channeling? Energy, the message. She's channeling the message. Sometimes she would call it Jesus. She did claim at some points to channel Jesus. Of course she did.

Which is so weird to say out loud. Yeah, it is weird. So the life classes in the beginning weren't that strange, and it was the first time my boyfriend and I were working on our issues. I was feeling more like I had made a right decision by staying with him. and I got all these great friends. They're just cool people who were interested in becoming better creatives or better people. It's nice to have a weekly routine with individuals.

And whether it's a book club, a tennis club, or getting together with just some friends, socially, especially now, we as human beings don't get near enough of that. Yeah. You saw people have really incredible personal breakthroughs. And that was really inspiring and that inspired everybody else to be vulnerable and share their stuff. And so it was really nice. The hard part was she was weaponizing all of that. But at the time, you're not aware of that.

The being in a space when people tell their fears, their struggles, their childhood issues or trauma, that is a space reserved for people who you know very well. Friends, lovers, family, close friends. And so by being in a group setting in which individuals are sharing that, it instantly ups the level of those, the intimacy of those individuals. You are automatically bonded? Right. But who are these individuals that you're being bonded with? It's a forced intimacy with people who may not have your best interest or knowledge or care

about you that know things about you that you may not want them to. And again, it's most people from the acting class. And here, we're not acting. We're working out our issues of the week. And she talked in a way that wasn't very cult leader fashion. She spoke a language that wasn't English. It was using English words. You had to learn it. She would say this is on purpose. I'm not speaking to your intellect, Tyler. I'm speaking to your ontalach. I'm speaking to your being. Your intellect can only hold so much, but your being, here's everything. That's what. where the real change can happen. The way she gets you is you have to just keep coming back,

because your mind wants to catch on, your mind wants to hold what I'm saying. Your mind can't hold what I'm saying, because your mind is the problem. Your mind is what keeps you from getting everything you want. Your mind is what keeps you in misery. The mind is why you're on antidepressants. Your mind is why, you know, she'd be like, we live on a planet full of hot lava that could implode or explode at any time. And you're worried about your rent. That's your small-minded thinking, you don't think you can afford rent, and that's why you can't afford your rent. And this is where the breaking you down really happened. She had an empty chair next to her in every life class. And so she'd call you up, and it was like the humiliation station. She would

get really in your face, and she'd be like, look at me. Look, stay with me. Stay with me. She could see if your eye went this way and your brain went off that you were going back into your mind and losing presence. She would say, can everybody see Brian's left eye? See his right eye is fine. His right eye is right with me. You see where his left eye is? His left eye is back in his past or whatever. And everybody in the chair sitting watching would have to raise their hand to agree to see it. And if you didn't raise your hand, then guess who's getting called out next? Tyler. Yeah. And you know why Tyler can't see that? Because I have my own issues naturally. And this is the biggest way she weaponizes your human instinct against you.

Because she says anytime you have a feeling like all of my red flag feelings, that wasn't my intuition, Tyler. That was my mind coming up, which your mind is never your friend. In her estimation, it was all to get you to see the world differently. Right. To see that you guys are all dead men walking. She used to say this. Dead man walking. Damn it. Who wants to wake up? And this is what we're doing. We're waking up.

And so were you getting better? Yes. I am thinking this is really cool. I hadn't done a lot of therapy. I wasn't aware that this was really boundary crossing inappropriate, weaponizing trauma. But I was like, okay, I'm learning. A part of me knew something's fucked up. Something was weird. I didn't know it was a cult. I knew it was crazy. But I also thought it was helping me. But was there an end goal? I don't know if I had an end goal. The problem was it just became more and more.

It got so far away from what my initial goal was that it was hard to even keep track of that because my goal got taken early fast. I was on some other train, but I thought it was the right train. I imagined it. I'll stay here until I feel like I've gotten the value. tools that I need and eventually I'll leave. But she was a master manipulator to continue to ante up again and again and again. And there was always a reason why you needed to stay and why you needed the next foundation class and why now you need to go to India. You know, there was always a

reason because you can never stop working on yourself, Tyler. And she used to say like, people in my class, I laugh at this because they say, what if I get too healthy? and I have nothing to draw from my acting. And she's like, please, that'll never happen. You're all so fucked up. You'll never get too healthy. There's always more work to be done. But she weaponized that.

Your boyfriend, when did that start to weaken? Well, here's another red flag. She knew how abusive that relationship was. But yet she was encouraging me to stay with him. Now, I know in a lot of cults they want you to break up, she also encouraged a lot of people to break up. I think for her, us together, supported her. Because then we would stay in the cult together.

Of course, it's one more weekly payment that she's pulling in. Right. Because she's telling other people to break up because their partner is not in. Right. Or she would say, like, unless you get Jen to come to class, your relationship's never going to get better. So she would also do like local retreats. We'd go to Ohio in the OI Valley Inn and Spa, which is a gorgeous place. Which sucks that I went there with my cult because I love.

love this for spa but we would go there and he it was like an opening class and something and he got triggered and he just got fucking angry. I was like fuck you fuck this. I'm fucking done and leaves the retreat. And that's the first time she was like, let him go. If he comes back then you know you're meant to be together but let him go. That wasn't when we actually broke up. But that's when she started to like not encourage us to be together because she could see he was on the way out and he was and then he stopped going and um i mean i needed to leave him so long ago but i eventually did yeah and a true therapist might have helped you see that or you would have helped me initially to get out of that relationship right by recognizing you need to see that yourself yes that was the

opposite of this of this group yeah this was a woman who who she knew exactly what was better for you, which is why people became so dependent on her. Because we all want someone to tell us what to do. That is a reoccurring theme on this show, isn't it? Yeah. We just want someone to tell us what to do. And is this decision good for me?

Ironically, all of her yeses were good for her. They had nothing to do with you. But yes, this is good for you, Tyler. Why? Because it's good for the group. It's good for me. It's good for the cult. So you were taking two classes at this time.

you're paying now doubled. Oh, now it's double. So you're a buck 50 a week. That's $600 a month. Decent amount of money. Yeah, it's getting up there now. I never do it today. No way.

Can't afford that. Are you kidding me? But that was another thing that she talked about money. You know, money was an illusion. Money was a barter system set up to create rules and laws in our world. Again, not necessarily false. However, that also is a way for her to easily make you part with that money. Right.

Putting no value on that money, which there is absolute value in money because you work for that money. That is time, talent, equation into that money, which she then says there's no value in it because it's a piece of paper. Right. So just hand it over to me. Did you want to get into her good graces? Oh, well, that's what everybody wants. I think for me it wasn't as much getting into her good graces as avoiding the wrath of her. Not good graces.

I'm also like a good girl, right? Like, I follow the teacher. I listen to the teacher. I wanted to do the work. I wanted to do my homework. I wanted to prove that I am a good student. Mostly you just probably didn't want a shoe thrown at you. Did not want a shoe.

She also slapped a girl once. I'll get to that. That was in India. Within cults, they know. who their followers are, right? And they know who's worth more to them than others. The ones who had more money were treated special and timely and weren't pushed as hard. And then she had some that were just like the dogs. This one woman worked for her in every capacity, slaved for her. This woman was not making any money doing this. And she was the most abused in this cult. And I felt so bad for

this girl because she was so sweet. And she wasn't getting it, Tyler. She wasn't getting it. And she was still very stuck in her life. This is all according to Sandy, of course. And at one point, she told her, your trash, go outside and stand in the trash bin. This girl went outside and, like, stood in the trash for the rest of the life class. And several people were like, whoa, I think people did say something, but you weren't even allowed to, you know, then you got called out of. are ostracized for speaking up. That makes me sad.

It was horrible. It's funny what people can make other people do. And where are we doing that? We may not literally be standing in a trash can, but people put us in a trash can. Totally. Okay. And on that, go stand in the trash can. I know, this is a lot.

There's a lot of story here. And that's how we end. Today. particular interview today. Besides, your arms have to be tired. I mean, you've got to ice those shoulders down after all the movement. Do I really? It's almost

like my brain doesn't work unless the hands. Maybe I should have been a signed by which interpreter. It's a little hypnotizing because you're doing this. And I don't know. Is that you parking an airplane or what is happening? You're probably more overqualified. Okay. How do we do? I learned a lot.

There you go. Yeah. I think. I think we all learned a lot, but there's a lot more to learn. There is a lot more to learn. Stay tuned. More abuse coming soon. There it is, everyone. Episode one of Liz's story.

I told you she was brave. It's funny because, like, you did a very good job. I mean, there's so much information, right? I'm like, oh, I forgot about this and that, but there's only so much we can include in the little two-parter guys. That is the crux of what we do. We take these people's very in-depth, difficult emotional stories, and we try and put it into, you know, an hour or an hour and a half or whatever it may be. If you have more questions, write us.

I will happily share anything that has been left out. If you don't need to, Liz, the problem is that it hasn't been left out because we're going to do another episode next week. Oh, no way. We are going to do another episode. I got to go to India. I got to break up with my boyfriend. You got to give out of a cult. I got a break up with my cult leader.

I got a lot of stuff to do still. So much stuff. So many bad jokes. So we will be back next week with the second half of this episode. We recorded it a while ago. Just so you know, I think in there we said it was six and a half years. It's now seven and a half years. Oh, my God.

When you called me, oddly enough, to do the podcast or when I got called to do the podcast, it was quite literally the day before Diana gave birth. to Gabriel. When we were shopping, we were doing that nesting thing where we bought like $500 worth of, I don't know, paper towels and shit that you just buy. Oh, yeah. And the next day, we had Gabriel. And so he is over seven years old. So I can always date the time I knew about this podcast by how old my son is.

Wow. And a little special shout out to Hoyt Richards for dropping out of the project. Sorry, Hoyt. Hoyt's doing fine. Hoyt's great. Just fine. We're going to have Hoyt back on later this year, actually. Yeah, he's a hell of a podcast.

Hell of an episode it was. We have to thank Stacey Para, Gabby Rap, our in-studio producers. We love you guys. Thank you. And Rob. And Rob, of course, edited, well, did the sound mix and things. He's someone we just yell at. He really is someone, he's just our punching bag.

Thank you, Rob. Don't free to chime in right now, Rob, with whatever he would like. We can't control it. Hey, listeners, just popping in mid-edit to let everybody know that even though I didn't have my normal amount of work to do this week, I will be charging Liz and Tyler my normal rate. So, thanks everybody for listening. All right, that's over with. Thank you for calling Rolex of Beverly Hills. Please remain on the line.

Your call is important to us. Hello, this is Talia at Rolex of Beverly Hills. Who do I have the pleasure of speaking with? Hey, this is Rob. I called you earlier. I got my watch and it looks like it doesn't have enough diamonds. If I pay you more, can you put more diamonds on it? Oh shit, I'm still recording.

We have had a lot of people write in lately and it's been really nice. We love hearing your messages. We try and respond to every one of them. And people are always surprised when I respond back. Like I have, why wouldn't I? People are like, it's really you. Like, I have a fucking assistant who sends my emails. Who do you think?

I am. You do. Oh, my son is arriving. We should probably, it's going to ruin this. Hi, baby. No, we ruined it a long time ago. Thank you, everyone for listening. Be back next week.

Oh, there's the real Adam who made something of a cameo in this episode. Here, Henry, come here. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come here both quick. Say something. No. No.

Why not? Actually, that is a great lesson to leave us on. Say no. Say no. Don't go to the free class. Say no, guys. Say no. Step up to the microphone and loudly say no.

But say yes to next week's episode. Thank you, everyone. Happy New Year. Listen up, campers. It's time to buckle up, pitch a tent, and take a hike. This is Camp Counselor's Podcast with Zachariah Porter and Jonathan Carson. Consider this podcast your new favorite variety show. With a badges mean nothing.

And the drama means. everything. Is this podcast even about camping? No, but it is camp. We cover everything. I have a theory that a chicken finger is the perfect chaser for a tequila shop. No, because at the end of the day, I was a child actor who fell victim to an audition scam. I'm going to be vulnerable for a second. Have you ever had to shop in a husky section at a department store? Then I don't want to hear it. Honestly, I can't talk about this anymore. I'm overstimulated and I'm bloated. From weird news and our current obsessions to hot gossip and listeners submitted confessions. Nothing is off limits at this camp.

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