Was I In A Cult? - Liz’s Story—Pt2: “Kick 'Em in the Cooch”

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

So… remember that acting class? Well, turns out this “human behavior expert” has her eyes on a much larger prize. I mean, you can’t be the next Tony Robbins while just teaching scene analysis.In Part 2 of Liz’s story, Sandy’s world shifts into trying to become what it’s been after all along: a spiritual self-help empire. Except this one is built on word salad, public humiliation, and the slow, steady squeeze of control. (Spoiler: Her goal never "manifested") In this shift, the class expands beyond Los Angeles… all the way across the world to India. Because when you’re in a class to learn scene analysis, the obvious next step is a spiritual retreat.The language changes. The pressure shifts. And suddenly, “transformation” comes with a hefty price tag. A world where boundary crossing is reframed as growth and the cost of admission is total and complete loyalty. And if you can’t afford it? No worries. Just sell your car. One student did. And if you learn nothing else - as Liz would tell you, when someone slaps you in India, kick ’em in the cooch._______FOLLOW USFor more culty content - follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacultSUPPORT THE SHOWIf you believe in what we’re doing - shining a light on manipulation, coercive control, and cultic abuse - please rate, review, and share the podcast.Want even more?Join us on Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations.HAVE A CULTY STORY TO SHARE?If you’ve been part of a cult - we want to hear from you.Email us → [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Hey, Tyler. Hey, Liz. Welcome to Was I in a cult. It felt like we did your story last week. I think we did. We did do my story last week. Are you just mugging for mic time, Liz?

No, I would far prefer not to talk about myself. I don't believe that. You got a good story. So we're going to finish it. And we have to finish it because I don't know if you left the cult or not. Cliffhanger there. This could be the long game to actually recruit all of our listeners into small little life class. You know how you know it's not a cult?

Because I'm going to start a podcast about a cult, teach everybody about cult, and then recruit you into this non-cult cult cult. Sure. That's what you want them to think, Liz, until you actually get them to sign up for the life class. Take a deep breath. Exhale, release your mind, and allow Liz and Tyler to take you on a journey of self-exploration and transformation. And if you don't want to do that with us, that's okay. You'll probably end up sick and lose your job. But otherwise, for the rest of you, join us. Sponsored by Quince. We've done this show forever.

Is there something you learned more about my story this time around? Yeah, you're a creepy cult joiner. At least I was born into mine. Yeah, you had no choice. You had no choice. We've all joined cult in one way or another. It just depends on how long we stay. Could be 10 minutes.

There you go. Could be 10 years. That's true. But let's keep going out of yours, shall we? Okay, let's do it. Let's dive back in. Please welcome. Aren't you going to do the please welcome today? Oh, please welcome. The very brave, remarkably wise, sage, that is Liz Ayacuzzi, to the show.

And on that note, where did we leave off, guys? Hold off. Just a real quick recap. So I'm from Chicago. You have a boyfriend named Killian or Connor. Early 20s, fresh to Los Angeles, had a very toxic boyfriend. That unfortunately followed me out to Los Angeles. He meets a guy, says, you have to come see this woman. She's a human behavior expert. She's amazing. He starts to go see her. I'm at the same time thinking, I would like an acting class. Enter this woman, Sandy. Happens to be the same woman that my boyfriend at the time is going to week in, week out. I show up and she's a bit intense and weird, but seems legit. it. So I sign up for her acting class. Slowly, that starts to become more than an acting class.

And eventually, it becomes a full-blown, self-help, spiritual cult. You just, spoiler. I did, I did. Sorry. You just pretty much gave away the ending. Looking back, I can see the indoctrination happening every single step of the way, from the way she speaks to you, the way she manipulates people. Because of the way, she speaks. She would say like the English language is spoken in the past. I speak in the future. I speak in action. It was like you had to learn this language and that was part of the indoctrination. She would say things like this was her favorite thing in the

free class. She pulls somebody on stage and she'd say, okay, here's a pencil and she'd drop it and she's going to try to pick it up. And then you, ah, I didn't say pick it up. I didn't say pick it up. I said try to pick it up. That's stupid. I'm sorry. but how do you not do something without trying first? That's stupid. No, because trying doesn't mean doing. It's just humiliation because everybody else is sitting there going,

they fell for the trying thing, right? But it's just a way to separate you from the group think and then get you to agree. If you don't agree with the group think, you will be humiliated. You will be called out. So immediately, your critical thought, your individuality is being suppressed.

in very small juvenile, stupid ways like that. Okay, Tyler, I give you this one. She'd sit up there and she go, okay, point to me. I feel like it's a trick question, but okay, I will point to you. So you would point to me, right? And she'd go, thank you, Tyler. Now everybody else point to me. And then everybody else in the class would go,

and you're like, what is happening here? But it was a way to, again, call out you, the new person who doesn't think in a way that is outside of their mind. That's your mind coming up to keep you from having your life. What exactly is having your life? Live a transformational life. Living in freedom, living in bliss, living in possibility. She'd love to like do these sandyisms we called them

where she'd like play with the English language. Like where impossible becomes I'm possible or she was the acting coach. Eventually she became a guru. She would say like, guru, gee, you are you. The fuck does that mean? Or like, geez, it's us. Geez, us. What?

Human. Hey, it's you, man. It's you, man. You know that that is just with one inch from being just a really bad dad joke. Exactly. It's all the word salad. It's all like classic cult leader tactics. What else did she say?

Real eyes. You realize because you have real. eyes. Freedom. Freedom was free from being dumb. Free dumb, freedom, freedom, free from being dumb. I feel like I'm talking to my seven-year-old. Okay, this is a good one because of course she was called a cult, right? And all cult leaders get ahead of that narrative. So she would always say cultural, cult, you are all. Wait, she'd call you a cult too? Cult, you are all? She would say the cult is actually what you live in. You live in the cult, the cultural.

Cult, you are all, cultural. Over here is where freedom lives. Oh, this is my favorite. This is my favorite. You're going to die. A window pain. Oh, no. Go ahead.

Actually, I want you to play right now, Rob, the M&M lyric when he actually talks about window pain. It's brilliant because he turns window pain into what she did, but he did in a brilliant way. So let's just listen to that instead. But yeah, window pain Guess that's why they call it window pain. But, yeah, window pain was window pain. P-I-E-C-E versus P-E-A-C-E. Instead of peace, let's make peace.

Ooh, that's original. That's a bumper sticker from the 60s. Believe was to guess. Be live. To be and live. To be and live. There you go. To believe is to be and live.

There you go. That's a fucking bumper sticker too. favorite relationship. To relate with a seafaring craft. To relate with a ship. Two people each in their own little boat. Oh, I was close. And you have the little blue bow tied to your boat. And she has the little pink bow tied to her boat. And they tie their ships together. And they relate to their ships. Their two ships become one. What I never heard. Oh, this is my favorite. The last one was your favorite. Because they're all so good.

Intimacy. Wait, into me. I see. Into me, I see. Shit, right. This is easy. Easy. To behave is to.

To have, to be and have. Yeah. A mistake is a. To plant a steak. It's a mistake. Oh, it's a mistake. Okay, sure to know that one. I mean, there's more, but that's all we got time for today, guys.

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. So your little Liz Ayacuzzi, well-meaning, sitting on the floor at her house while she's on a throne, throwing out wordplay nonsense. Are you eating it up? Are you taking notes? Are you asking questions? You don't take notes because she's not speaking to your mind.

So to take notes would be your intellect. She's, in her opinion, channeling this great information. And this is information that is stolen from the Bhagatah, Buddhism, Taoists, all of these very well-known established places of spirituality. Sandy wanted to be the next Brunei Brown, Tony Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Eckertull, that's who she eventually wanted to be. And it's hypnotic.

But then people would also have these like massively cathartic breakthroughs. Because of the try thing? No, because she was using therapy in a very boundary crossing way. She had no qualms calling your trauma out in front of a group of people. She would do things on purpose

to get a rise out of you so that you could see that you hold on to these ideals that really don't matter. If you had a reaction to that and maybe didn't want to talk about being sexually molested age nine in front of a group of strangers, she would then divert that to talking about why you are so protective in that way. And that protection of not wanting to expose it is what's holding you back from blank and blank.

And then there was a lot of like the humiliation stuff, right? The group think when she would be working with somebody, she would always be like, do you see that? And like, everybody had to raise her hand in agreement. And if you didn't, you get called out. She did not practice one thing that she preached. For instance, she was very against antidepressants, medication.

I have nothing against medication. And fine, if that's not your thing. But then don't be on seven medications. She was on anti-depression, anti-anxity, she was on everything. but would put you down if you were on that medication because you couldn't go beyond your mind to be off the medication. You were dependent on that. She said money was this barter system and that it didn't matter. All she cared about was money and getting more of it. She had a massive green emerald around her

neck, diamonds out of her ears. You know, she was the Botox up the wazoo, Beverly Hills guru, but she's the spiritually enlightened person who material items don't matter. And what do they matter to you, Tyler, while she drives her range over and eats expensive sushi every single night? It's the same question we're going to ask, and we ask a lot about cult leaders. Do you think this individual believed that she was spiritually enlightened and receiving channels from Jesus? Or did she know she was a bullshit artist? I've thought about this a lot. I've actually wavered back and forth.

But I think, and I think this because I genuinely think she is not well mentally. I think she thinks that she was gifted this gift, and she is just doing her best to help all you fucking idiots. She made herself this sort of untouchable, you're lucky if you get to hang out with me, right? She had her crew, her posse. They were the cool kids. They were the pretty girls, you know, they were the successful ones. I think she tried so hard in so many areas in the real world to make it work. And she just kept failing, right?

She failed in her career. She failed in her relationship. She failed with friends. There was just so much failure, I think, that creating this world where she got to be the cool girl. And it was so like Regina George, like mean girls. Did you find yourself advancing in the pecking order? I eventually did make it, unfortunately, into that inner circle. But everybody has a place going back to my class clown, loving to do characters and

impersonations. I became the court gesture. And she would make me get up in the middle of the room. Let's say Rob's sitting there struggling with something. She can't move him. So I would have to get up and I have to show them what they look like. like in their mind. So I remember this one woman, I'll call her Rachel.

It was so awful. I feel so bad about it because I don't know what I'm doing, but she's sitting there and she's like, and I get up there and I'm like, me, me. And I'm doing it. I'm being this woman, but it's just a way to humiliate this poor woman who's having a hard time and struggling.

I would act out these everybody's shit. But no, looking back, I mean, it was humiliation, disguised as a teaching moment. And real quick about her clientele, it did run the gamut. She had some very wealthy clients, millionaires, CEOs,

heads of companies, top commercial realtors, Hollywood, Los Angeles, money. She had regular working class people. And then she had her creatives, and that also ran the gamut. She had some very successful actors, one that went on to star in a Marvel movie.

I think it's a marvel. I don't remember. I don't know. Regardless, that person wore a cape. Correct. It was a wonderful community. Now, these are my friends in this new city. That makes it much harder to, quote-unquote, leave.

And then on top of it, she would threaten things to people. You can leave and go get cancer. You can leave and never be in a relationship again. You can leave and never book another job. That's up to you. So I know sleeping with good sheets makes a difference, of course, but I actually didn't realize how much I would love Bowling Branch's signature sheets. They are really soft.

I know. You know why I know? Because I have some on my bed. They sent me some nice Bowling Branch sheets. And what surprised me when I put them on is how breathable they are, right? You don't wake up hot. And somehow, magically, they get better every time you wash them. That is true.

And then we added, have you gotten into their waffle bed blanket? Of course I have a waffle bed blanket, Liz. Yeah. I was like, oh, it's a blanket. But it's actually really light. It's warm. It doesn't feel stiff. I got it from my mom for Christmas.

And she was like, oh, man, we have so many blankets. I don't eat another one. And now she's like, I love this blanket. David got. I was like, Mom, I got that for you. I did. Don't give the credit to my brother. Poor Liz.

She loves the blanket, though. That's the only thing that matters. She loves a blanket. She loves a blanket. She did? I always thought it was your brother. brother. Yeah.

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they come back and they're like, third eye is open and they're just walking around like on bliss clouds and their life is changing and they just booked four jobs and they're in love with themselves and life and you're on stage with somebody oh well guess who's doing better acting on stage tyler the person who went to india correct and then so you're up there and you're like shamed because you didn't go to india are you coming to indian with us next have you has she sent up for india yet is josh in india yet who else isn't so who's gone to india raise your hand Okay, and now raise your hand if you don't want your life. Nope.

Do not raise your hand, Tyler. So it's like you're in this long enough where you're like, you either are going to go to India or you're just going to have to get out of this thing. You obviously felt enticed to go to India. I felt pressured. Pressured. Sure. Enticed, pressured, tomato, tomato, tomato, whatever it may be. You wanted to go to India.

Tell me how she came to believing that India was this. Eden where all knowledge rests. It was shortly before I just got here where she had gone on this retreat to India. Instead of being like, wow, I learned about my, she was like, I can do this. This is how cheap this fucking country is. And I paid how much to be here?

That's when she switched to human behavior expert. Now she's dealing with you as a person, your life. And she meets a man there who's about 15 years younger than her, I would say. And he is a budding Indian guru, right? And he becomes her point of entry to India. His family owns the hotel where they stay. And so we're talking like cheap. India is cheap regardless. This is massively inexpensive. So her overhead of the India trip, the trip was, I think, $5,000 for two weeks. And that's not including airfare. I think she, probably had to pay $500 ahead.

So you have $5,000? No, but money is an illusion, Tyler. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. I forgot. I missed that class. I was in my own mind. That's why credit cards were invented.

Of course they were. For emergencies, like having to go to India. First time I ever went into credit card dead in my life was because of this woman. That part hurts the most, the financial abuse. And this was part of the sales pitch. I guarantee you will make 10 times the amount you make this year by going to India. There was a kid. His name was Doug.

Doug really didn't have $5,000. He was a server and just lost his job. And she was still pressuring this kid to go to India. She literally was like, sell your car. And he did. He sold his car and used the money to go on a two-week spiritual retreat to India. You also had to get two weeks off of work. Oh, yeah.

But she would give you all this language to speak. I'm going on a life-changing opportunity. This is a once in a lifetime. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Once in a lifetime, except for the next month when you have to go again. Yeah, in six months. You all go as a group or you go separately. You're on like the same flight with most people.

We land in New Delhi and we drive to Rishikes. Rishikesh. is a very spiritual town. It is the birthplace of yoga, and that's where we stayed. Did you know that in 1968, the Beatles? Yeah.

Actually went to Ritchie Kish? I do. I mean, what you don't know about that is John and Paul thought it was nonsense and left. Ringo left early because apparently the food wasn't very good. George stuck around. He stayed there longer than the others.

However, the White Album came out of that. So not for nothing because the white album is great. No, I know. So here's where things are a bit interesting because India is magical. Like 4.30 walking on the banks of the Ganges and just like breathing and meditating and being in this wildly spiritual place. Going to Bodronath, which is like only open three months out of the year, it's super spiritual and beautiful and but first of all you're in a prison

while you're there because all of a sudden you're under her watch all of the time so there was no like free time it was confusing because I wouldn't say I was in a woo-woo

we're all wearing white thing that's not what I would say until you go to India and then all of a sudden everybody's wearing caftans or whatever and you're like whoa what happened

I look like like a cult. Why? Before India, I was like, eh, I wasn't like fully in. But India is the place where all of a sudden you're in this shit 24-7. You are just fully in this dogma all day. It really takes you out of your comfort zone in a way that you're way more susceptible to indoctrination. She and this man, they became like the two, gurus and hold classes and lecture for hours. So let's call this man something because he's a big part of the story. We'll call him Manu. Manu. Manu. Which is man you, Liz. Exactly. Because you are not man. I am you, man. You are you. I are I. Me is me. Gee, you are you. I have so. I have

many of these words, I just want to vomit. Manu, owner of the hotel. And guru. So they became our guides, our spiritual masters, if you will. And she also started to fuck him. I

did not see sex coming as a part of this cult. Gosh. It's funny because the dogma of the cult was like always what she was doing. Because she was terrible in relationship. So when she was like not having sex, she started to tell everybody who she deemed sex addicts who stopped having sex. So one guy

who was a very strapping, handsome, tall man who had a lot of sex. By the way, listeners, it was not me. I know you're thinking it was me. He stopped. He went celibate for three years because of this woman. Also not me. So she starts having sex with Manu, but they're also spiritual leaders, enlightened beings. But there's a lot of, I don't know how much you want me to get into the details of like her smacking a woman in India. I mean, you did mention in the first episode. We're at the top of this temple and one of the girls was really in something, right? Something emotional that she couldn't shift out of. Sandy was doing all of her tactics to whatever and then ended up like just smacking her.

Smacking her. Wow. And we all just sort of like, did that just happen? But it was all justified as her growth and what she needed. One time I busted my shin open. We went apple picking. There was an random apple orchard in the middle of God knows where. We are three hours from any civilization at this point. And there's this basic trampoline right at the base of this.

Now, this trampoline is like rusty. There's no mats. It is small. So what do I do? I get up and I start jumping and jumping and stupidly do it back. flip, barely land in. Barely. From across the apple orchard, I hear Manu go, do it again.

I did not see. Do it again. So I do, I jump and I do a backflip. And this time my shins come down on the rusty side edge of the tramp. My left shin splits open to the bone. Sorry. Oh, no. I black out because I'm in so much pain.

somebody has a butterfly band-aid. There was a personal trainer. The personal trainer carries me to the car. We had to drive three hours to civilization. And so we have to go to the ER in this very small Indian village. I get a couple shots. They give me like literally three stitches. This should have been like a 70 stitch job.

Three little stitches. I can't walk the whole trip. I'm on crutches. is this becomes the lesson of the trip. This became about how I didn't go into my mind. And she's just like coaching me the whole time. I think that continues to be the lesson. That's one lesson I will take is not to do a backflip on a rusty small trampoline three hours from a hospital.

Let me write that note down. Do not. But I mean, you're in this sort of like... Jump on. False trampoline. Hold on. Keep going. Do backflip.

the second time on rusty trampoline. Great, got it. Got it, good. But the thing about India is this is why the cult existed and became what it became. Because you're in this false sense of safety, right, with these people who are all there to quote unquote work on themselves.

These things exist. You've heard of retreats before and there are retreats that are great and not culty. And most of them are culty. Well, I think when it's a cult before you go on the retreat, it's going to be a cult with jet lag is really all that's going to be. But you end up sharing your deepest secrets with strangers, essentially, and then you bond and then you watch people from all walks of life

have these, quote-unquote, shifts, these massive shifts, you know, release of existing trauma that is, quote, unquote, in their way and blah, blah, blah. And so it sets you up to think this is a safe place. I mean, you are in this, like, false sense of bliss the whole time. Because you aren't going to your normal life. You're just, like, experiencing life. And so you do come back from that with a sort of high. But it doesn't change your life the way it's promised to change your life.

Well, look, getting out of your comfort zone at any time, going on a vacation to a place you've never been before, experiencing new foods, new language, new sites, new sounds, new smells. Of course, you're always going to come back a little bit more enlightened and wiser, better. Travel is one of the best things for a human being to get out of their own rut. Right. And because of the cult, you come back one of the special ones. Of course, you're now in the India club. Yeah, now she can point to you and look at all your growth and look at your face and look at how soft you are and look at how beautiful your eyes are. She left a girl, but now she's got real potential at womanhood. That kind of manipulation. You're just a prop, a recruitment prop, a living postcard of India. That's correct.

Did mom and dad back in Chicago, braburning hippie and one of the actor, graphic designer, were they privy to this world you were jumping into? It makes, it like breaks my heart a little bit because they were just like trying to just be supportive, not having any clue what the fuck, why are you going to India? What? Part of me always knew, this is fucking weird. And if I try to explain it, people are going to be like, what? I just downplayed it as, it's just something for my career or something.

I don't remember what I said, but like something to grow me and my career. My dad did meet her eventually and came to a class. Ugh. This is where like I just want to like, ugh. Because she like tried to like get into my dad's shit. With you there. Yeah. It was gross.

It was like putting my dad there with her really brought to light this woman's a month. Like this doesn't feel like, why is she trying to. to alienate me from my family, because I'm very close with my family. It's interesting, though, because she'd certainly done that to you or other people. But when she did it to someone

whom you genuinely cared about, that's when you really saw the wizard behind the curtain. Yeah. Yeah, I got the ick. So your boyfriend of the time, he didn't go to the first trip? I think he was not really into it yet,

and then I came back. All of a sudden, I felt how can I relate to him? If I'm talking about this experience and he has no idea what I'm talking about and he's still sort of living in his... Well, he's one of those non-India people. Right.

He's non-Dia, not India. He's non-Dia. He's out-Dia. Out-Dia. That's right. He's out-dea. Okay, but let's stay with the boyfriend. Killian.

All I was doing with this person was trying to get him to be who he wasn't. You know, it's like the classic, like, I can change him. If you just work on your anger a little bit more, you can do it. You can do it. That naive stupidity of your 20s when you think, you think people change. They don't change, guys. Don't fall in love with potential.

They can, though. I don't want to say that people can't change. No, people can grow. But their core, my point is, like, the core of somebody doesn't, They don't really change. I'm still hopeful that people can change. I'd like to think that we can become better individuals. And because I become a better individual,

my wife's made me a much better human, and she worked at making me a better human. Or I'm just cuckled, and she took every amount of joy from me that singlehood brought. Or I'm a better person. Again, tomato tomato. So I'm not suggesting people can't change. I think it's what I'm speaking to is when you fall

love with potential. I think that's always very dangerous because potential isn't who they are. He wasn't changing. Yes, people can change. He was not. But anyway, so we went to India together. And I don't really remember our experience together in India very well. We were both in this thing that was working on ourselves and all of these things were justified because you're in a cult that justifies everything. When you're in therapy with a partner, it's all about willingness, right? Like, if your partner isn't willing

to do the work on a problem, you're probably aren't going to make it. And it was definitely getting worse between us. And I remember when it got really bad, he, like, pushed me up against the wall in our hallway. Like, it was scary. You know, I think I really knew it was over

when, like, he just wanted to be a dad so bad and I would have these nightmares of giving birth to this redhead three-year-old Irish devil. And I'd be like, no, that's not my baby. And he just took off to go on a surf weekend. He just leaves. And something in me was like, this is it. I have to leave.

I have to be done. I moved out all of my stuff. He came home to a half-empty apartment. He was like, what the fuck? I was like, what? You said it was, we're done. I'm done. And that was it.

So you left that cult. I did. I left that cult. How many years had you been together? Four years at this point maybe. So now I'm without boyfriend, and now it's just me and my new friends. This is now my community. These are now my people. And it's becoming more and more of my life, as cults do.

It takes up more and more time, right? And I don't remember how it went from India to Bali, but eventually... Oh, I know. So she and Manu were so. keeping together. They were running these retreats for a long time. And then things didn't go so well between them. They break up. She's now bad-mouthing Manu. This one person she wants to put on a pedestal and praised. He is now the devil and the worst. And so he basically starts his own cult. There's a split in the group. And I was still with the sandy side of things, if you will. And then she meets a local man in

Bali and ends up transferring her retreats to Bali and starts working with these Balinese healers. So now we've moved away from the meditation, spiritual, Indian way into hands-on healing via Balinese healers. And that becomes her new obsession. And the prices go up and everybody's going to Bali. Did you go to Bali? You went to Bali, of course. I did go to Bali. Went to the monkey forest. I went to Aboud. Bolly's amazing. I'm just mad I was there with Sandy. Sandy. And co.

You start getting into the inner circle, right? Yeah. I'm now, like, more committed. I end up running the acting class at one point. So now I become the recruiter. I'm sure the pay was great, right? No, it was just free class. Of course. So I'm helping all these young actresses who are auditing,

now I have to call them and I have to get them to sign up. There was like four or five of us that were working there. You know, I was running the acting class, somebody was running this class, somebody was running this retreat, somebody's running that.

And she would just annihilate you. Did you call this person? Call this up. She was so manic. Being around her energy gave me such anxiety because she was just like, going a mile a minute.

She's over here and just, this, you got to do this. And what are you doing over here? And why isn't this person signed up? And what happened to that girl? Did you call that girl that came in last Tuesday? And what happened to her? And is she coming to the foundation class?

And what are you doing? Right? And then if you're not getting enough people in, then she's degrading you and you're the problem and what the fuck is wrong with you? And the labor we were doing was under the guise of SEVA. Now, Sava is a sansirate word that means to be of service. To be present, it's also about gratitude, right? And how do you get into gratitude?

Well, you get into gratitude by being of service to others. But what she did was worry of service to her. Selfless service. No, no, no, no. You were just using us because you don't want to pay a fucking handyman to paint your house. Her hair, her kitchen, her plants, working her out, signing everybody up for classes, doing the classes, doing her checkbook, buying her kids food. She was a queen with slaves. Being a cult leader is a good gig.

Good gig if you can do it and sleep well at night. I mean, it went beyond that. She would say she's channeling through her back. So when she was giving her lectures, her back would get really hot. And so she would need you to work on her. So she would literally have people constantly massaging. Like she just had everybody.

And I forgot to tell you about these, you know, because every cult leader male has some like girls fanning him. There was two men. in the cult with me, who were like European and like strapping men who would have their shirts off

and she called them her knights. And what did they do? They would do anything, anything she asked. They would take her kids here. They would build the gazebo in the back of her house. Any manual labor needed, they were doing it.

They were so used by this woman. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. I was something I was told them. So they're two exotic, strapping, shirtless men who she would task with doing manual labor. Yeah, because they were struggling artists at the time, so they couldn't afford all the classes. And so what do they do? Come pay my house, come build my this, come fix my that, take my kids here, do this for me, da-la-la-la-la-la-la.

And eventually I became her workout person, too. She was like, I need a workout person. I'll give you more free classes. And this is where I started to see the truth of who this woman was through working for her. That's where I really saw all the hypocrisy, all the abuse. When the crack started to break from me was when I would see her on retreats where we'd be staying in hotels. She treated staff, service industry people, everywhere we went, like garbage. And I was just like disgusted by it.

Wait, you're my quote guru and you treat people like this? I genuinely believe that the true test of an individual is how they treat waiters, waitresses, people behind the counter, individuals who are there to help you. How you treat that person, who you may never see again, or isn't going to do anything for you other than bring you food. That's a true test of someone's character. Also, if you put the shopping cart away, in a grocery store parking lot. That's the true test of a character. That is actually the true test of cares.

My guess is Sandy didn't put her shopping cart back. No. No. She had one of her nights do it for her, I'm sure. Sir Galah had my cart. One thing good to come out of India was yoga for me. I was introduced to yoga there in a new kind of way that I was really inspired by. and ended up wanting to teach.

So I ended up becoming a fairly successful private yoga teacher. And funny enough, would go on the road with the Lakers. And it was time away from this group. And that was giving me time to shift perspective. And that's when I sort of shifted into writing. And that was a threat to her. And I'll never forget, I was working with these producers on a project. and I was excited about it.

It was a writing job. It was exciting. And she started to treat me like shit. She'd be like, ugh, you see Liz in her ego? She thinks she's some cool writer now. And she ostracized me. She wouldn't let people hang out with me, right? So, like, if anything doesn't come through her control, it was a threat.

She eventually goes to Las Vegas, meets a man at the craps table, as all love stories start. He's from Indiana. They start meeting up in Vegas secretly. And she's saying it's this, she's helping him. She's coaching him through this horrible marriage. No, she's fucking him and stealing him from his wife. Well, she successfully does so.

He moves to Los Angeles and marries her. He's a businessman. And so he comes in to try to like make her the Tony Robbins, make her the Brune Brown. And she needed a book because all these people, what do they have, Tyler? They have books. They have books. Deepak Chopra has a book.

Brunei Brown has a book. Tony Robbins has an ego and a book. So she needed a book. She's not a writer. So then she got me and I think it was four of us that were supposedly the ghost writers of this thing. And basically we just transcribed all of her foundation classes to put it on paper. and then try to translate it to the world in a way that is not mumbo-jumbo crazy talk. That book is not available in our show notes.

So you were enlisted, and I say enlisted because you most certainly were not hired. There was, of course, like back-end promise or whatever the fuck it was. No, there wasn't. Right. No, there wasn't. I started to do that, and I didn't get that far into it. And that's when I just sort of was like, what am I doing? I'm not living my life.

This is not my life. I am being used to help profit somebody else's life. None of this was moving me towards my career. So I just had an aha moment, I guess. And I think Aaron and I, who were working on the book, we were just, we were both sort of like, what are we doing? She sent me randomly an article. from like 17 magazine.

It was like one of these very mundane sort of run of the mill like 10 ways you know you're in a cult and I just read it and I was like holy shit. I was like check check check what the fuck I'm in a cult?

What? I just I couldn't believe it and then it just all Plinko chipped like just came all to together, like, mind-blown, sent it to Lindsay. Lindsay was like, oh, fuck, I'm going to call them out. And she, like, quit the next day.

No kidding. I didn't know anything about Colts. I just, I was beside myself. And I still had a couple other more fucking workouts with this lady to finish up. I didn't want to leave with any baggage, any connection, anything that kept me tethered. to this woman. So I was like, I'll finish my three more workouts. It was actually really freeing those workouts because I knew what I knew.

And I was like, I'm free. I'm done. I don't have to listen to your insanity talking a mile a minute about X, Y, and Z, and who's going to get in the foundation class? And why aren't I? And I was like, I am free. And it was like, once I realized this was a cult, it was like, oh my God, I don't have to live like that anymore. And then, of course, comes the anger and all of the feelings that come

when you're coming out of an environment like this because an acting class turning into a cult? What? So a lot of our guests leave a cult and then usually a lot later is when they recognize they're an occult. It's a cult. I know. But you basically learned you were in a cult and then had to leave. Yeah, and it took a while to break that down and understand what that means. But one thing that I really was most intriguing to me was this idea of, well, if this is a cult, then there's got to be a lot of these. Because if an acting class can be a cult, then it's not just Jim Jones and Charlie Manson. And that's what sort of got me into the psychology of cults and just sort of understanding narcissistic,

malignant, often sociopathic, borderline personality. Then I got deep into it. Of course. Obviously. Yeah. Right. And now, here we are. Can't stop talking about them.

Can one imagine what might have happened? Would you have not joined this cold? I should have not joined an acting class. I should have joined the groundlings. I should have done comedy classes here. No, but that's my biggest regret. Because comedy, and I found my way back to comedy, and I did take some improv classes out here,

and I ended up doing stand-up comedy, writing comedy. I don't regret being in that environment, right? Because it's informed who I am and so many things. The thing that I regret the most is that I allow myself to be in an environment, that took me down a path that wasn't my path. I wasn't doing all the things that I was meant to do in the world. I was doing whatever version. Well, I think the lesson learned in this is that bad things happen

and you find yourself in places and in situations and in groups that you probably shouldn't be, but what you do is you make the best out of those. So rather than dwelling on it and hiding it and not utilizing those things that happened to you, you've turned that into something. You've turned that into a podcast and you've turned that into skills.

And we get emails every week from somebody who is inspired by this stupid little show we do of people talking about cults. So if nothing else, there's that. That is true. I do hope this show helps people. A number of individuals

from your group left the cult at the same time. Did that help? That was huge for me. And I feel really bad for people that are so alone because you can talk to therapists and all that, but there isn't anybody that quite understands like somebody else who was in it with you. And so a lot of the healing for me was processing it with these women and men that left. Because I had a hard time finding the humor for a long time. And then I finally did and it deflated anybody.

balloon of like she is this person on this pedestal and she just became a sad little girl who was just looking for love. And where is this sad, sad little girl? What happened to Sandy? So years ago, there was a Hollywood reporter article that came out exposing her as a false guru. Well, after that article came out, she moved. She no longer lives in L.A. I think she's in Texas. She started to go full-fledged into Bali. And so she basically claims that she got talked this ancient Bolognesean healing technique in three days.

She took that and ran with it. She has now a healer, a self-proclaimed healer. Oh, that's so dangerous. She has the Sandy Blank Healing Academy where she has now basically appropriated this Bolognesean, healing and called it her own. She has trademarked it. And you too can get this healing and become a

healer yourself for the right number of $4,000 to take her Healing Academy. You can also get a healing online. I think it's a 15-minute energy thing she does through the computer. And the Sandy I knew is no longer. Like she is new persona and now she's a healer. She's just totally totally a different person. But not really. No. She has now just shifted her bullshit to that. I haven't looked at her stuff in years because why would I?

But for the purposes of this, I just went back on her Facebook. I'm not like retrigured, but I'm like, I'm kind of re-triggered. Liz, if there's one thing I know about X's, it's usually best if you don't go on their social media. But can I tell you why I'm re-triggered? It's the same shit, just a d'clock. different way in. It's now like a bunch of like old ladies paying so much money for her healing. And she's doing all of her tactics, but in the guise of healing. And she's taking advantage of these poor people who have like tumors and this and that. And she's doing this whole healing

with this woman. She's literally going like this. Blowing on them? No, blowing on the computer. She's blowing on the computer to try and heal people online. And this poor, woman is sitting like in Boston, and she's like, yeah, I got some tinnitus and something in the back. And she has this woman open her mouth. Okay, just like that. She goes, okay, hold on. And she blew onto the computer screen. That's fucking dangerous.

And look, I am a proponent of the placebo effect. I truly am. And at some point, science will figure out why the placebo effect works. But the placebo effect doesn't cure cancer. It doesn't fix a broken leg. Don't give these con men and women your money. Don't do it. Go to a fucking doctor.

It's really shocking and upsetting. And it's a fascinating study and ironically, human behavior. She's the expert. Okay. So you've left that in your rear view mirror. If you could confront Sandy today... What would I say?

Yeah. I've dreamt about this a lot because I think you process a lot of this stuff in dreams. So I've definitely had moments where I've told her, stop it. I see you. You're a broken, broken human. And you just stop taking that out on other people. Stop fucking with people's lives. Stop being a bully.

Go to therapy and get your shit together, lady. You know, there are snakes in the grass. there are people out to manipulate, steal, cheat, lie, take advantage of for their own good, be it money, sex, fame, power, or to fill an empty hole that they will never fill. Sandy sounds like one of those people. And I, Liz, am sorry you went through that. And the best thing we can do about it now is make fun of it and laugh at it. Because seriously, it fucking deserves it.

It deserves it, doesn't it? A good hearty laugh. Everyone out there, laugh along with us. Cue the trauma laughter. Lafract, Rob. Oh, okay. There's so much more to this story, obviously, that we can't get into two episodes. And I think what we did so well here is really showcase the cult aspect.

But also what I want to sort of leave everybody on is cults are nuanced. You know, this stuff is nuanced, and it's not black and white, and we say that all the time. And looking back, I think there are a lot of great things that I guess I learned in this environment.

Now, you know, I think it's good to be present. I think it's good to do some self-exploration, mindfulness, I love meditation, you know. A lot of the concepts that she was teaching are good concepts, you know, to find out where you're blocked. I mean, that's why therapy exists. But how she went about it? No.

And am I giving her all the credit for that? No. And that's sort of, to me, the difference between a therapist and a cult leader. A therapist also probably doesn't have nights around them. Well, there's a lot of other differences. But that's one of them. But, you know, that's it. You don't need Sandy to do this stuff.

And that's what happens in cults, right? And that's why you can have a CrossFit class that's just a CrossFit class. And then you can have a CrossFit class that turns into an insane cult. And I guess when we always be like, what makes a cult a cult? I think it always comes down to the leader. I really do. Usually. Yeah.

Yeah. Nine times out of ten, I would say yes. And how it's implemented from that person. But that person is, you know, everything trickles down. Right. So don't be a cult leader. Don't be a knight either. Don't stand in the garbage if somebody tells you to stand in the garbage.

No, don't do that. And if somebody slaps you in India, slap them back, I say. Kick him in the cooch. Kick him straight in the cooch. And for Liz's episode, I can find no better sentence to end on than that. Kick him in the cooge. That might be the title of this. Okay, everyone.

Thank you, Liz, for coming on our little show. Oh, you know what? I just want to say something. It was just such an honor to be here with you. Thank you, Tyler. Where can people find you, Liz? You have a podcast. Am I correct?

Yeah, you can find me. It's called Wasanacult. You can listen to it. That was terrible. Sounds stupid. The host, they grow on you. Yeah. Feel like I'm growing on myself right now.

It's like cilantro. First bite. You're me. What? Why? Why do I need salons? And then by the, you know, like, where's the cilantro? The dish isn't good without cilantro. Some people like cilantro. Some people have a chemical reaction against cilantro. I happen to like it. I happen to like us as hosts. I love cilantro. Thank you, everybody, for listening. And we will be back next week. Liz will be on the other side of the mic. With a cult that also espouses to reach total freedom and clear. clear.

It's the hint? The planet. Yeah. Just, it's Scientology. I don't know. Sign a billion dollar contract. You too. Okay, let's pretend we're a pregnant first time Scientology mom.

We're lying in bed and we're thinking, who's this baby? Who are they going to be? They're going to be someone who just passed away, right? But you're thinking that you're receiving this spirit that just underwent this trauma, like in your body, really, technically. Is there anything more invasive than that? that, you're just thinking about like everybody dying out there and they're just going, coming into your pop.

So is stressful. If you're lucky, it will be another Scientologist who has recently passed away. That's the dream. We did a Scientology episode, which is pretty rad. We have a few good ones coming up. We have an Anne Rice vampire cult. We just did. It's an internet vampire cult inspired by the fandom of Anne Rice novels.

And, whew. And then we also have, uh, Dropping on February 17th, we did an interview with David Archiletta. Oh. What a story. Tears my eyes. If you don't cry after this one, you're a rock. I cried the whole time.

And he's so, like, I just, oh, how sweet. I want to hug him. I want to hug him. So lots of good things in store. Credits roll here, which is, it's hosted, produced, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thank you guys for listening to my story. I do appreciate it. And thank you to all our guests who show up and share their stories.

Thanks, Liz, for telling your story. It's pretty kick-ass. And I appreciate you being vulnerable. And I appreciate you doing this show every fucking episode. Thanks, Tyler. You too. Welcome. Oh, thanks, Rob.

Thanks for making a sound better. Robbie, Robbie, Dobby. Oh, yeah, Rob on the sound mix. Dang, dang, dang, don't. And thanks everyone for Patreon stuff. You guys, you keep crushing it. For being a part of us. We couldn't do it without you.

We just got it. pays for daycare for God's sakes. All right, everyone, thank you. Okay, thank you, everyone. Next week. We will. And out. Over no.

Listen up, campers. It's time to buckle up, pitch a tent, and take a hike. This is Camp Counselor's podcast with Zachariah Porter and Jonathan Carson. Consider this podcast your new favorite variety show. Where the badges mean nothing. And the drama means everything. Is this podcast even about camping? No, but it is camp.

We cover everything. have a theory that a chicken finger is the perfect chaser for a tequila shop? No, because at the end of the day, I was a child actor who fell victim to an audition scam. I'm going to be vulnerable for a second. Have you ever had to shop in a husky section at a department store? Then I don't want to hear it. Honestly, I can't talk about this anymore. I'm overstimulated and I'm bloated. From weird news and our current obsessions to hot gossip and listeners submitted confessions. Nothing is off limits at this camp. New episodes of camp counselors drop every Monday and Wednesday. Listen wherever you get your podcast.

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