Was I In A Cult? - Married to the Cult Leader: “Symbol of The Whore"

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Christina takes us on a harrowing journey trapped in a cult led by (none other than) her husband, who claimed to be the reincarnation of Christ. Of course when they first met, he was a rebel who stole cars and did drugs, but we digress. From manipulation to isolation and justified adultery through 'God’s will,' Christina's story is a rollercoaster of control and resilience. As she faces threats to her family and identity, Christina bravely shares her experiences with humor and hope, showing us that even in the darkest of times, there is always a glimmer of light. LINKS Follow us: Instagram @wasiinacult Support Us: https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult Have a story to share on our show? Email us: [e-mail] — “This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/INACULT and get on your way to being your best self.”

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. I don't care what anybody says, because people like, oh yeah, right, you were in a cult. You have no idea the fear that's involved when somebody gets a hold of your entire future. Not to mention the natural aspects of it where now you're going to lose your kids and you're not going to have a life. And, you know, what I came from was really bad growing up and you're afraid you're going to go back to that. You know, this is all I've known since I was 17.

Welcome, to was a cult. Welcome, everyone, to Was I in a cult? The show where we give those who have been in cults or cultic environments a chance to tell their story and take their power back. And we do it with little levity and humor. Sometimes, sometimes it seems to be. We try. You can't hit one out every time at the plate, can you?

Well, no. I'm Liz Aikuzzi. And I'm Tyler Missom. Now, we've had a lot of guests on this show in the last couple of years, and they come to us in different forms and ways, sometimes through books, sometimes through articles, and oftentimes through emails that are sent to us. And if you guys have sent us an email about your cult experience, and we haven't gotten back to you yet, fretnaut, doesn't mean we don't want to tell yourto get through them all, but we will get to you. Yes, we won't make empty promises. Like most cult leaders. So, a today's guest, however, Christina, she came to us in a very different way.

I have a sister, right? I have five sisters and one brother. And I have a older sister, and I call her my bitch sister. Her name is probably, but she is. She's also warm and funny and wonderful and great and gregarious and likes to hang out of this bar in American Fork, Utah. The La Sabre, which is French for the sword. And it's a little dive bar. And I don't know why it's called the sword because there's a big rifle above the bar. But that doesn't matter right now. What matters is that one day she was there drinking and she happened to chat up this girl

and this woman started talking to her about how she was in a cult. And she was in a weird cult in Northern California and her husband was the cult leader. And so what did she do? She said you have to talk to my brother. And so she introduced us and we loved her story. And so Liz did an interview with her. And the the the the the thi. thiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to to thi. thi to to to to to to to to to c. to c. to chat to chat to chat to chat to chat to chat to chat to chat to chat thi to chat thi the. the. to c. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that that that that thi. that that that thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that. that. that. that that's that's that th talk to my brother. And so she introduced us and we loved her story and so Liz did an interview with her. And like Tyler mentioned, her story isn't just being in a cult and meeting the cult leader, but being married to the cult leader himself. Crazy. So Christina was quite open about her story and she was also quite vulnerable and she was

able to laugh at her experience. So without further ado. Curify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Welcome to the show, Christina. Thank you. Why don't you just tell us a little bit about where you grew up? I grew up in Mantica, California. I had a very dysfunctional family life.

Altogether, there were five girls, and then my mom and stepdad had two boys. Well, we were poor, I mean, food stamps the whole bit, you know, I mean, my parents used to make us go to church because they would have lunch there and stuff, and then we finally got told that if we were just coming for lunch we couldn't come back to church. My dad, he wanted to have a son and he prayed and he told God that he would stop smoking if my mom would get pregnant if he could have a son.

She did get pregnant and they did have a boy and then another boy. So he got on this religious kick. He started making us fast one day a week and learn scripture verses and if you didn't learn your scripture verse he would beat the crap out of you. So religion to me was just a bunch of hypocrisy and scapegoating. So I never wanted anything to do with church at all but when I was 17 I met this person and you know he smoked and he did drugs and I thought that was so cool. Kids it is not so cool. I know it's not cool but back then when you're in a

dysfunctional family you know anything that was totally opposite of what your parents wanted was what you wanted to do. Anyways we wound up dating I guess you would call it two H Hortingons, dating, and he was stealing cars and he was just a rebel, you know, and he got arrested for stealing cars and stuff and he went to a juvenile hall and he said that he prayed and God told him just tell the truth. And so all of these felonies that he had got wept off to misdemeanors. So that to him meant that to him, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, to that, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the the the the theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea, the the the the theeeeea, to to to to to to their God told him just tell the truth. And so all of these felonies that he had got webbed off to misdemeanors. So that to him meant that, you know, God was real. And so he started trying to go to church, but he was still doing all the other stuff, you know.

But I was attracted to the bad boy side, and I told with church. So we were living our rebellious life and I had moved out of my parents' house and moved in with my drug dealer and my boyfriend moved in with me. Christina didn't want to use her boyfriend's real name, so. We'll use his middle name, we'll call him Dale. Eventually, after months and months of us just doing drugs and all kinds of stuff. We moved in with his mom. I mean talk about Betty Crocker and the Beaver Cleaver mom, you know, she was

very religious. They did this thing called a deliverance ministry where people would come over and they'd have you know snacks and pray and then eventually they would cast demons out of people and it was just people flailing around and talking in tongues and all kinds of stuff. it was just people flailing around and talking in tongues and all kinds of stuff. It was so outlandish you know. I mean I went from not wanting anything to do with religion to right into full-fledged circus you know. So I felt like I was playing a part trying to be something I wasn't. And I had my son still, you know, he's with me. How old were you when you had your son?

15, it's just kind of embarrassing to say, one of my teen years getting raped and having my first son, which I chose to keep him. And how did Dale react to your child? He actually was really good with him. I will say out of everything that's going on, he was a really good dad. Anyways, I wound up getting pregnant and we got married. February 14, 87, we went to Reno. I wore my prom dress. So now she had a second child, this one with Dale, at the young age of 17.

What was your drug of choice? Meth. Everybody wanted to smoke weed and it just made me sleep. I was always so depressed all the time. I did meth because it made me normal just so I could actually just have a conversation with people. I was just always so depressed. Terrible, terrible childhood. It was just you, my brain was just all over the place. I did it, let's see, probably three years off and on. I didn't do it again after my middle son was born. Or maybe I did it one time after he was born. But I just stopped doing it because it is very addictive.

I don't feel like we need to say this, but I'm going to anyway. People meth is addictive and dangerous, and you probably shouldn't do it. Afterschool special with Tyler Rogers. You know if Mr. Rogers, Fred Rogers, if he had a cult, I'd have joined it. Oh, hell yeah, totally. I'd have warned the cardigan. I would have happily been his neighbor. hell yeah, totally. I'd have worn the cardigan. I would have happily been his neighbor.

That sounds so creepy for some reason. Why? Mm-hmm. Because we live in a world where wholesome doesn't exist anymore, is that right, Rob? Anyway, take your shoes off in public? to be somebody's snapping pictures. Is that from personal experience? You take his shoes off of public? He takes his shoes off. He'll be on his show.

Swing hard, Rob. Swing hard. That's our producer, Rob. Occasionally they let him out of rehab and he comes in as community service. He works for us. He puts in some hours to pay off his debt to society for taking his shoes off on the bus. You're gonna taking pictures of feet.

I told you guys, Wholesome doesn't exist anymore. So I may have stopped men, but I was still doing stimulants just to be normal, to be able to interact with people. So it was basically untreated depression. stimulants just to be normal, to be able to interact with people. So it was basically untreated depression. Absolutely. Absolutely. Once we got married and had my second son, he started working for a company that put

those signs up. And before work, they would pray. And sometimes they would just study the Bible and stuff and not even get any work done, but he still got paid for working. So he really jumped both feet into religion. We had moved to Sacramento, living in low-income housing. When he was at work and then we would come home and he would go straight out to different churches and stuff.

And then he started traveling with some of his friends, some other guys, they would go to different churches and try to get as much information from God that they could get. Becoming a man of God is what he wanted to do. I really don't know how to explain it. I would go with him sometimes, but I normally just stayed at home while he went out. We rarely spent any time together. I was more like a single mom with two kids on welfare. It was not good for our relationship and I th th th th th th th thiiiiiii. th. th. th th thi th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. th th th th th th. th. th th th th th th at th at th at thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to theeeeeeeeeeeeee. thi. I was more like a single mom with two kids on welfare. It was not good for our relationship and I did have a couple affairs while he was out running around doing his thing. Yeah, not proud of that but it happened, you know, stupid kid, you know, and that I'll explain later was a preface for other things that he did. But anyway, so he wound up getting with this group of people, and they went to a little Filipino church out in Walnut Grove,

and they wound up going out there and then helping this little Filipino couple with their church, but eventually taking over the church. He wound up starting this church, and it was called Equipping Christian Center. It was based off of a scripture, equipping the saints for the work of the ministry. This particular scripture comes from Ephesians 4, 11 through 13. And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the saints for the work of the ministry for building up the body of Christ, etc. and the the the the the the the the the the, and the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers to equip the saints for the work of the ministry for building up the body of Christ, etc., etc., blah, I've got to be honest. I'm a little tired of reading scriptures on this show.

Why, you're the scripture and fact boy, Tyler. Uh-huh, but I- Just own it. And the white male rock boy.., don't remind him. I'll stay in those lanes. I can read scriptures every once in a while so that I can quote Boston or electric light orchestra. Rob, look what you've done. Look at what you've done. Or one of the lesser known kiss ballads. Beth is one of the better rock ballads of all time. I want to go back to the scripture actually didn't he he left out a bunch of people like what about the plumbers and you know nope just the top ones that's elitist. On the church I called being elitist so this church he started non-denominational is what he called it in the beginning it was actually something that was really good.

All these young people got together we would have solorship nights you know play, you, you, you, you, to play to play to play the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the pl. the the the the pl. the the the the the the the the the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the beginning, it was actually something that was really good. All these young people got together. We would have fellowship nights, you know, play games and talk, just like a bunch of friends hanging out. And the kids all got to play together, and the adults we would do, he called it revelating, where you would just talk about the Bible, and how it affects your life, and it was positive for the people that were involved. So in the beginning it was actually really good. And a lot of young people were looking for other young people to fellowship with.

So here's this young charismatic guy with these other young charismatic people, going church to church traveling around so it attracted other young people and so they would come to the church. And at one point there was a good 50 to 60, 70 people that were there. But as he continued down his road of the way he interpreted scripture and the control, people started falling off. As far as the fellowship nights in the church, I enjoyed the people. They were good people. And I tried to integrate into the religious side of it.

I always felt like I was faking. I just felt like there were so many requirements and control about it that if I wore the wrong clothes or stepped out of line, God was going to strike me, you know? You know, and the sad part is, I knew him when he was younger. So it, I, I, I, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, and it, and it, and it, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their,, the sad part is I knew him when he was younger. So it morphed into this thing and I told him you you deceived me, you tricked me. I told you I wanted nothing to do with religion and all of that. Here you are this bad boy and I really liked you and everything I would get married and next thing you know you're out there wanting to carry a cross around. I didn't want to be with him anymore

because one I'm I wasn't religious I didn't want to be a part of all this stuff that was going on I felt like a hypocrite I felt like I was trying to play a partner play and I wound up leaving and I was with this other person and wound up getting pregnant. And then she got kicked out of the church by Dale, right? Not exactly. Dale told me to cut it off with that guy and took my third son as his. As far as I was concerned, he was his. I never gave it a second thought.

He would bring it up that maybe he wasn't his, that it really didn't matter because this ministry that he had started, he had this big thing about reconciling the father to the children to the fathers. So he had this big push about taking care of children, you know, other people's children, making them your own kind of mentality.

I gotta give credit work, credit is due. He may be a cult leader, but this was a kind of nice thing he did. Well, it may sound altruistic, Tyler, but he did have his motives, as we'll discover on a future episode. Oh, it's a tease for a future episode. It is. So Christina now had three kids, all by the age of 23. So when I had my youngest son, I wound up quitting working

and wound up homeschooling all three of them, which I really enjoyed. It was through a private school. It was overseen by administrators and stuff like that. It wasn't like I was just out there, hippie in it, you know. So she's homeschooling, and Dale? He's still doing his church thing. He's working now for a company that they were installing pay phones.

Pay phones with a big thing. Pay phones, like, what is a pay phone? Wait, sorry, I'm on Tuck-Toc consult and Instagram and all the things. Yes, some of our Gen Z listeners might not have ever had the joy of using a pay phone. Tyler, they've definitely never used a payphone. Let me set the stage. So there was a time when you weren't at home and you didn't have a cell phone and if you had to make a call, you went into a little booth and you put some coins in the slot,

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, and you press some buttons, tick, tick, and that's how you would make a call. Sounds like a COVID-jar machine. It probably was. If you guys need a reference, watch Will Farrell and Anchorman have a full-blown meltdown inside of a payphone when he finds out his dog just got kicked over a cliff. I'm in a glass case of emotion. It's a good scene. It's a good scene. Wow. It's a good scene. Wow! Do you remember how he cries like that? Yes.

I love that. I love that. First introduced. Oh, here we go. I'm just giving the people what they want, Liz. Payphone facts. You were so sick of scripture, like, fact time, yes. They initially cost two cents to make a call. Inthe mid 80s the price was 25 cents and I personally remember when it went from a dime to 25 cents it was quite a shocking price increase I bet you also personally

remember when you could get a deviled egg sandwich boy a potato's a cup of coffee slice of boys and boyola moat all for a nickel and still have enough to tip your waitrid a I I get it I get it Liz because I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they they they they they they they toy toy toy. toy. toy. te toy. toy. te. toy. toy. toy. toy. the the the the the the for a nickel and still have enough to tip your waitress Mildred, eh? I get it Liz because I'm old. Don't look at me you wrote that joke. Fine, alright. Anywho. 25 cents, I mean it was a lot of money. Oh you're still going. Of course I'm going to go on, of course give the people what they want. 25 cents was a lot for a local call in the mid 8080s. With inflation 25 cents in 1985 is 73 cents today. Would you pay 73 cents to call someone local call today? I don't think so. No, exactly. And I had to pay 25 cents at one point. It was either Pac-Man or a payphone. I'd probably just send a text. Yeah, they didn't have those. They didn't have those. I would just page somebody, boobies,

and hope they knew who I was. Children. I mean, would you pay 73 cents to make a phone call right now? Um, who am I going to talk to? Better make it worth your while because it's 73 cents. You're from the mid-90s there were 2.6 million pay phones in the United States. How many smartphones today? How many are there?

Probably more than 2.6 million. Do you know how many? How many? Over 300 million? That's a lot. And sadly, in... Oh, you're still going. There's many more facts to give the people. In New York City, once had over to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their to to their their to give the people. In New York City, once had over 30,000 pay phones, but it removed its last public payphone

in May of 2022. Here's 25 cents. Go call someone who cares. You know, I would. But finding a payphone might prove difficult because there are less than a hundred thousand. So he had income coming in, but he was basically full time with his ministry now. And he had another family that decided to sell everything and follow the Lord, which was to live at the church and be there like full time in him and that the guy would revelate all day.

They would talk about scriptures and how it affected their lives and stuff. I don't know how to explain it. I guess it's like they did their own seminary school. He just talked about how he's preparing the bride for the return of Christ. So I did search for a scripture on this and there's a bunch of stuff about brides. And Christ being the bridegroom and the church being the bride, and in essence the bride is often a metaphor for the correct church and the bride needs to be prepared for when Christ returns and then I just kind of got bored and I gave up. Does it even matter any more?

Do you want the honest answer? No. I don't. Don't. So Dale, back to Dale, was slowly building his community. He was always with someone. He was never alone. And then the females that would be there. I was not a part of any of that. He would say, you just need to stay home. Sometimes he wouldn't come all at all.

I will tell you that I was secluded from a lot of that because I was so, I'm kind of sassy. And I would speak up and I would say, what the heck is that? You're like praying in tongues, what do you mean the Holy Spirit? You know, like I would ask questions and that wasn't appropriate for a pastor's wife to ask all those questions. He told me one time that God told him that you don't need to change her, let me change her.

So he went about doing whatever he wanted to do with God and left me to figure it out on my own. What was your relationship like? It was, yeah, I was going to be blunt, you know, I don't know if you'll cut this out or not. I enjoy sex, so I won't cut it up. So I pretty much like, we're gonna, okay, let's do it, you know? Do not, it's all I got. Animalistic would be that portion of it, you know? I don't think he was serving Jesus during some of that. Yeah, so I mean, that's what makes it so funny is it was a healthy as far as that goes healthy. We did talk.

I had bipolar that was undiagnosed. I didn't get diagnosed till I was 43. And so I had a living hell going on inside my head. So yeah, I would have my outburst. I would go into a deep, just deep depression. I would just have these really dramatic mood swings. And it was usually because he just controlled everything I did. I wasn't allowed to do anything without his permission, and I would get so frustrated.

And if we fought, I didn't know how to cycle that frustration, and I would get so frustrated. And if we fought, I didn't know how to cycle that frustration and I would lash out. So I was a mess. But through all the turmoil, the community continued to evolve. It happened so quickly once it started happening. I think there were 50 people. At one point, everybody was going to move to Walnut Grove, and they're getting apartments, and they're living at the church, and sleeping at the church. And then on the property where the church was, there was this old dilapidated two-story house.

He called that the discipleship center, and there was, I don't know, a good six or eight young guys living in that house following him. Nobody there would question him. Nobody questioned him ever. They thought that he was an an an-anointed one. And as we go further, they literally thought he was Christ. He believed it completely. Believed that he was an an an anointed one. So, a Christ. He believed it completely. Believed that he was an an anointed one. So, a Christ.

He never called himself the Christ. He said he was a Christ. Because, you know, that would be blasphemy. Right. Of course. Right. Christ means anointed one and God has sent many Christ, so he was Christ. Basically from God to raise the church up, purify the bride, so they're compatible with Christ when he returns. Okay, so this reminds me of one of my favorite stories that I read about years ago, and I thought would make a good documentary, and maybe I'll still make it.

Old white male rockers? No, those will come out, I assure you, but this one's a little different. It occurred in 1959 in Ipsolante, Michigan. This is where a psychiatrist by the name of Milton Roqueach was working with paranoid schizophonics. So he got three men who believed that they were Jesus Christ, the one and only Jesus Christ. He believed that he could cure them of their insanity. So he introduced them and he figured that they'd see each other and think, well, they could be reasoned out of their insanity, right? Sounds pretty dumb. Yeah, probably it was. And he had them work together, he had them lived together.

The only thing that really happened is they would have fist fights, they would into wine. Right. Nice one. The study did go on actually for two full years, and the only thing that changed was the three Jesus, Jesus' Z's. GZ. I think it's called. The three GZI ultimately became friends and would often defend each other's divinity. And one of the guys did change his name to Dr., idealized, dung. I don't know, Rob. He should have just gone with God of shit.

What do you think? I'm just surprised they didn't look at lobotomies at that point. It was the 50s. That's kind of what they would do, or shock therapy. I think what happened is they actually got euthanized instead. Save those tax dollars and then resurrected three days later. Years later Roquech grew uncomfortable with the ethics of this experiment. I wonder why. It was. It was very shady. He actually kind of messed with these people's lives and

the three Christs were not cured but Roquech did in fact reveal that he was cured of his godlike delusion that he could manipulate them out of their beliefs. Unfortunately, we can't say the same for Dale. His delusions only increased, as he too believed he was Christ on the earth. And so did his followers. Some of the people even actually prayed in his name. That's when things started to change. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. You know, Tyler, as a newish parent still, I keep thinking about Christina having three kids by 23 years old.

And I can't even imagine that, given that parenting is like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube blindfolded. Hmm, interesting. Speaking of Rubics Cubes, Liz. Oh boy. What Pandora's box have I've???? that? that? that? that? that? that that that that that that that thi? thi? thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thoes is thoes is thoes is thoes is thoes is thoes is thoes is thu thu thu thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi thi thi thoes thoes thoes thoes tho tho thoe the the the theee theeeee thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooes thoes tho thrying to solve a Rubik's Cube blindfolded. Hmm, interesting. You know, speaking of Rubik's Cubes, Liz. Oh boy, what Pandora's box have I opened? Guess how many possible Rubik's Cube configurations there are? I don't know, five billion. Yeah, close, but not really. There are over 43 quintillion.

Quintillion? What's a quintillion? Oh, it's a lot. For comparison, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's b. It's b. It's b. It's thi. It's it's it's it's it's a thi. It's. It's a thi. It's. It's. It's. It's. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. th. toa. toa. toa. to toa. to toa. toa. toa. to. to. to. to. to. to. it's believed that there are 7.5 quintillion grains of sand on the entire earth. Just thinking about that is giving me anxiety, which is why I have a therapist, Tyler. Uh-huh, nice. I have a therapist to help me keep my facts in order and to myself. Should work on that second part more. You know, when I first started therapyter thera thera thera thera thera thera thera thera, you thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, you're thi, you thiolioli, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiqiqi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, you thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. ti. ti. tiliolioli. thioliolioli. thiiioliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiolioli. thi. work on that second part more. You know, when I first started therapy, it was really overwhelming, you know, who do I go to, what do I talk about? But a great non-intimidating way to start is with better help.

Better help you guys is entirely online, so it's really easy to fit into your busy schedule. Sure, you just fill out a brief questionnaire and you're matched instantly with a licensed therapist. And what's great about that, let's say you and that therapist don't really jive. Well, you can get rematch with a new therapist at no additional cost.

Yeah, so whether you're navigating the wild world of parenthood, or navigating your co-hosts, unnecessary treasure trove of useless facts............. toe. toe. toe, toe, too, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to the, to, to, to to, to, to, to to to to, to, to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, t... the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the thea. thea. thea. thea. to to to to to to to to to to to to too, the. trove of useless facts. Better help can help. You know we joke but honestly on this show Tyler and I are big proponents of seeking real therapy not unqualified cult leaders to help navigate life's challenges. So learn to make time for what makes you happy with better help. Is it better help dot com slash in a cult today to get 10% off your first month? Yeah, that's better help H.E.L.P.com slash in a cult. Have you ever done a Rubik's Cube, Deller? How long? No, I've never been able to finish one. Have you attempted? Oh, who hasn't?

I was a child of the 80s, Liz? My sister was really good and I was jealous. Maybe you should go to therapy for that. Okay, so recap a bit. Dale was Jesus. Christina likes sex. Scripts are boring. And pay phones were too expensive in 1988. I'll tell you informative and entertaining. That's was I and a cult. Available wherever you get your podcast. Okay what information do we need now going forward though? Cult-tactic 14c. Ah yes, Cult Tactic 14c. Sleep Deprivation. They would start having prayer nights. That would usually be like a Saturday and then it progressed into like all night, prayer nights. They would stay up all night. Then they would have Sunday services. There would be 12, 14, 16 hour meetings, you know, and you're awake that whole time. They had an experience where they were all laying on the

floor, holding hands, and they had this electricity experience where this electricity went through their bodies, but not everybody, it was Dale and one particular woman in the church who was also married with two kids had this quote unquote experience together in front of everybody. And they said that was God finding them compatible. And I think people thought it was odd, but they couldn't deny what they saw so they're like okay you know and her husband was at home her husband was always secluded too with kids. Anyways, Dale's sidekick said he had a vision and that God was restoring the bride of Christ and that this woman, I'll just call her Julie, that Julie was this representation of the bride of Christ,

and Dale was the representation of Christ, and that they were to be the example to all of us. And so we were supposed to learn from them and become like her. So many of us listening most likely know of the red wedding from Game of Thrones. Well guys, the red wedding ain't got nothing on the lightning wedding. I'm guessing there's a lot less blood. Yeah, except that. And then one night, and I was not there for this either, they're all praying, and then a lightning

storm. So they wanted to chase the lightning storm. And there's probably a good 12 people that went to do this, and they went out to Mount Diablo, which is, that's the actual name of it, Mount Diablo. When they went up there and the lightning was crashing all around, they were quoting some scriptures, and this other person said, Dale, stand here, hold hands. You know, God's joining you together, even though they're married to other people.

The lightning was all around and her hair flipped up and it was like a veil and everybody is so excited and everybody is so sleep deprived and hyped up on amphetamines. So they're all like, this is so awesome. And now all of a sudden, you guys are joined together. So he literally came back to the house and told me what happened. Lightning is a symbol of God's judgment. And they says, God's joined me to her. Julie now is the symbol of the

bride of Christ and I am now the symbol of the whore is what he called me. Basically said that God found me incompatible and that he was divorcing me because I had had an affair on him. Even though the affair was years earlier and we were still a family and it was no sense whatsoever. And so now we're going to say God made it happen. You know, I've heard some tales in my life, but using the excuse that warm moist air rose and collided with cooler air, creating a buildup of electrical charges in the atmosphere as a justification for cheating on your wife, That is a new one.

If I was not involved or set, like, put my approval on it, then nobody would follow it. Because otherwise it would look like they were just having an affair. He said that I could be a part of what God's doing if I cooperated. If I chose not to cooperate, then he would make sure that my kids were no longer, you know, a part of my life, that he would keep the kids. Wow, using her kids as a threat. Well, that's not very cool of you, Mr. Christ on earth, man. So for me, I was kind of blindsided. I didn't know what to do. I honestly did not know what to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to cooperate. to cooperate. to cooperate. to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to cooperate to to to cooperate to to to cooperate to to to to cooperate to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to cooperate the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho the tho the tho the the the tho the tho the the the the the the the the the the the blindsided. I didn't know what to do. I honestly did not know what to do. Now you have to understand there's so much control involved with this whole

situation because you're being controlled but if you step out of line God's going to condemn you. I don't care what anybody says because people like oh yeah right you were in a cult. You have no idea the fear that's involved when somebody gets a hold of your entire future, not to mention the natural aspects of it where now you're going to lose your kids and you're not going to have a life, and you know, what I came from was really bad growing up and you're afraid you're going to go back to that. You know, this is all I've known since I was 17.. And, and, and, and, and, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. thi th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the thi, their their their their their their their their their, their their their their their their their thi. thi. their thi. their thi. their thiiiiiiiiii. thiiiiiiiiii. thiiii. thi. th go back to that. You know, this is all I've known since I was 17. And so I was like, okay, thinking to myself, I

don't want to lose my kids, you know, so I'll stay here, I'll be a part of this. So he had me convinced that I was in judgment and that God was going to condemn me if I didn't do basically what he wanted. He was going to go to go the to go to go the divorce the divorce th to go th th to go th th to go th th th to go th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi thi thi thi th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that's that's that's that's that's thi that God was going to condemn me if I didn't do basically what he wanted. He was going to go through the divorce stuff with me. He literally made me sign my kids over to him or I would never see them again but they could reside with me. They lived with me but he had full custody. Insane, right? Yeah, it's just insane. But because I submitted and humbled myself just so that I could be a part of my kids' lives, I fully delved into it. I accepted that I was the image of the horror, and I accepted that God separated me from my husband because I was this terrible person.

I was hurt because I couldn't believe that he was doing this to me. We had been together since he was 16 and I was 17. You know, we grew up together. I was ashamed because he had me believing that this was all my fault. All I could think was that I needed to pay back for what I did to him because believe me he would always talk about it how I made God do this. So I lived in a lot of guilt and shame, and so I fully immersed myself in the ministry and following his teachings. I am fully involved with what he was doing.

Once our divorce was final, he immediately went with her and they got married. He stayed with her and some other people in a little apartment not too far from the church. And then he had this new woman with them and her friends and all these people together and there's this little click of people that were all believing this and how it was God's will and it's like he had his core. This group of people he was already had control over so he th th thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi thi thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. thiiiii. thii's thi. thi people he already had control over, so he just kept it with that group of people. This is where the communal living started coming in.

Everybody was together. We would eat together, have the services, their services, there was a lot of stuff that was done together. That was your family. You don't have friends outside the group. He bought houses and moved people people people people people people people people people people people people people people their their their their their their their the. the. the. the. thuuuu. thu. thu. thoooed thooooo. thoos. And, thoos. And, thoes, thi. And, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, thoes, tho. thi. thi. thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, theeeean, thi. And, thei. And, thei. And, thei. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And bought houses and moved people into these houses and everybody would live together, and there was a good 30 people. And what good is being a dime store, Jesus,

if you can't have yes-man apostles doing your bidding? He had one person that was his right-hand man. Anything Dale said to do or wanted done, he was right there, Johnny on the spot to do it. Other people, they would sit around him, rub his their their their their their their, and their, and right there Johnny on the spot to do it. Other people, they would sit around him, rub his feet, massage his back, but all the women they would be all over around him. A lot of how he operated was like David Koresh. It was the same kind of slow. Anybody that had a job, all of their money had to go to him. They were trying to live the Axe Church, which is you you the the the the the th is you thi th is you th is you th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to do the, to to do to do to do to do to do to to to to do to to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, to do the, to do to do to do to do the, the, the, the, their, their, their the, their the, their the, rube, rub tooomoboomorrow, rubbed tooomorrow, rubbed tooomorrow, rubbed their, had to go to him. They were trying to live the Axe Church, which is you lay the money at the Apostles' feet and then they distributed

it as God sees fit. He would give a little bit of money here and a little bit of money there to everybody in the church. But at the same time had everybody in the church on food stamps. When you make people live on basically nothing and food stamps, you're going to have a little extra cash in your pocket. He bought an RV, he bought cars. I'm pretty certain that if Jesus were alive today, he'd drive an RV. What, do you think the Son of God should take an Uber? He bought a house and he had his now wife. Then he bought another house and he moved his mom into it and some other females that were

part of the ministry that needed a place to stay. And yeah, he bought a million dollar home under the guise of he was going to fix it up. It was an old hotel kind of looking thing. Beautiful, beautiful place. The pool and everything, a lot of work he had to do on it. He would take the boys and the other disciples and have them work on the mansion because he said that he was going to make it

to where we all could live in one house together. But that never came to fruition. It was just a money pit. So, the rules were, whatever he said goes, for a lack of a better description. One of his teachings was here today, obey today. So when you hear God speak, which comes through him, you better obey because delayed obedience is disobedience. If you disrespected him, then you got in judgment. So he would separate you from everyone, and you weren't allowed to go to church. You weren't allowed to do anything.

You have to stay in your house until he decided. We had to ask permission to do anything. I would get in trouble if I walked down to the post office, which is like up the street. Everything was controlled. The money was controlled. What you wore was controlled. Everything was controlled. If you went to a thrift store and you bought clothes, you weren't allowed to wear those

clothes without him first approving of them, that you couldn't even pick out your own clothes. There was a lot of manipulation and control of people's diets, of food, sleep deprivation. We weren't allowed to use the internet. Any kind of book had to be proofread first. Dictionaries, encyclopedias. We had to go through it and cut out pictures. You know, if it showed, you know, the reproductive system, oh, that's dirty, and you got to cut it out. If the kids were out of line, he went dowse him with cold showers, spray him down, you don't put him in the shower, and then whoop on with a rod, because if you spare the rod,

because if you spare the rod, and spocel the today. There it is again, the overused and grossly misused termed term term term term term term term term term term term term term term term term term tomed tom spare the rod. Now if you heard us mention this in a previous episode, which of course you did, how could you avoid the soothing kiwi tones of Jason Christian? You learned the origin of this particular phrase. And no, guys, it does not come from the Bible. Yeah, and even if you did listen to Jason Christian's episode, I think this calls for a quick recap, because it's important. Also, so when someone uses the the the term term the the term the term the termers the tomters the tomse tomse tomters tomters the tomse tome tome tome tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tom, tom, tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tom, how tom, how tom, how tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, toe, toe, tom, tome, tome, tome, tome, tome, tome, tome, tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toeo' toeoe, to' to' to' to' to' to' to' t a quick recap, because it's important.

Also, so when someone uses the term spare the rod, spoil the child, you can be that person to the dinner party that's like, actually. He loves saying actually. Actually. I like the term actually. It's a good way to put yourself above somebody quickly. Actually. It does come from a 17th century satirical and erotic poem entitled Hootibrus, in which a woman is

convincing her lover to dabble in some sexual bondage. And she's pleading... You should never say sexual bond. And you just never come out of your mouth. Sexual bondage... And she's pleading with him to spoil her, the child, as she puts it, by letting her lash him with a whip. She says, spare the rod, spoil the child. A term does not come from the Bible, you twisted bastards.

There were no TVs. You could rent videos from his library of videos that he's improved out. You weren't allowed to listen to anything but Christian music. But he could play Metallica during services because that was part of his preaching. Those were spiritual songs. I guess if you can interpret the Bible to your liking, you can interpret anything to your liking, including Metallica. True.

Some Christians actually have claimed to see religious imagery in Metallica videos, like Crosses and there are some who claim that the lyrics to enter Sandman have a Christian theme. Sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight, exit light, enter night, Take My Hand, we're off to never, never land. The Take My Hand being a reference to guidance from a higher bower, also known as Peter Pan. Yes. Yes and just to be clear Metallica is not a Christian band but I will give props to Jesus Dale for using it to liven up his sermons. So you go to church and there's praise and worship. He stayed in this part of the church she called it the sound booth and so it was up above everybody.

So he was looking down on everybody all the time, literally. He would have these services where they turned into just shaming people. We would all be there for 12, 14 hours and all you would be doing would be shaming people and telling their secrets and just really bad stuff. So there's one incident where he was in the Soundbook, his throne area, and he started getting like getting visions or something. I don't know what it was, but anyways, he's looking at me and he must have had a bad thought or whatever about my youngest son not being his or something and he just looks up and he just says he isn't even mine anyways in front of everybody and nobody knew our personal business like that part of it

you know and I was mortified and just humiliated and I just wanted to kill him because I'm like my youngest son didn't even know. So it's bad enough that your husband turns into a cult leader. Then it's worse when he justifies an affair with another woman using the weather. Even worse, when you're then branded the whore and you can't leave even if you want to because he threatens to take your kids away if you do. but the icing on icing the icing the icing the icing the icing thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to have to have thi to have to have to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be toe. toe. toe. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to to to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. te. te. te. te. te. te. teate.eateate.eate. toeooooooooooooooooooooe. toeens to take your kids away if you do. But the icing on this shit cake? And then for me, I have to be best friends with the woman

then he cheated on me with. You know what I mean? Before the lightning wedding and all that, we were friends. People used to give us confused because we looked so much alike. And after the lightning wedding, there was contention, of course, because you're with my husband, you know, so yeah, that's really, really on. And I'm supposed to be okay with it, and she's coming over to my house, and yeah, that was really difficult. I started to try and be friend her so that I could, I don't know, be in his good graces.

So even though I'm the symbol of severity, I still want to be in good graces. So her and I actually became really close. She called me her right arm. And wherever he was, there was always me and her. They called us his pillars to hold him up. If we sat down to eat, it was him in the middle, and then Julie on one side, and me, and the other, and the other, and the other, and the other, and the other, and the other, and the th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And thi, thi, thi, thi, I'm thi, that was thi, I'm that was that was thi, I'm th. And th. And th. And th. I I I I I'm, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I, th. And that was th. And th. And that was th. And that was th. And that was that was th. And that was that was th. And that was that was th. And th. And that was th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And that was that was that was that was th. And that was that eat, it was him in the middle and then Julie on one side and me on the other. And that was the representation of Christ and the goodness and severity. I was severity, she was goodness. People started admiring that I was so humble and able to give my husband to this other woman and still be a part of

their lives. But as for the kids? After the lightning wedding he started crapping down on them they weren't allowed to be kids anymore. You know so my oldest son rebelled. So his dad said he wasn't thankful for what his dad had done for him. So his dad said, well, what do you know, maybe you need to go to a homeless shelter. Yeah, so drove him from Walnut Grove all the way to Bakersfield to a homeless shelter. My middle son just followed his dad with whatever he said, whatever he wanted done he would do. My youngest son, he has his own story about everything, and a lot of his stuff I didn't see or whatever he saw more than I did. But he considers it all just adultery and that his dad basically used scripture and used God to commit adultery.

My youngest son, he got in trouble a long time. He's my little fireprecker. He questioned everything just like I did. And he wound up getting secluded a lot. One time his dad was preaching and my son was standing up with his arms crossed and his dad looks at it and then he says, you look like you don't want to be here. And then my son said, I don't. I remember my son saying to him, what are we doing? You just keep preaching about changing the world, but you never do anything.

We're just talking. When are you going to do something? And then that's when I remember things going downhill for him. I recently interviewed him as well, and we'll have an episode later in the season. But, I mean, they left their dad. Everybody was on his side. I was alone. I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally, I mean, they left their dad. Everybody was on his side. I was alone.

I literally had nobody. I was embarrassed. I was humiliated. I was ashamed. I didn't want to talk to my family. And by this point, he had already separated me from my family. So I had no one. And so all I had were my kids. I thought about leaving multiple times, but I had no vehicle, had no money.

I was estranged from my family. You know, where am I going to go? What am I going to do? The caged bird is what I called myself. So I was really beat down. I lost so much weight because I was so stressed out. I went from a normal size person down to like a hundred pounds. Every day. It was very depressing. I tried to kill myself three times when I was there. I took sleeping pills. That

didn't work, just gave me hives. I choked myself out with a vacuum cord. And then another time I got a bottle of wine and sleeping that would work. And it didn't. I was just miserable. I'm not anything. I just felt like I was wasting away, you know, dying. And I had a nervous breakdown, you know. I went to the doctor, I was talking to therapist and stuff to help and they diagnosed me with bipolar at that time and I was like, well that explains a lot, you know. But I just couldn't stand the control anymore.

It was like no matter what I did, it was always the wrong thing. But yeah, one day when I just pulled my head out of my ass, and it was just like, I'm not going to sit around here moping and just sit here in judgment. I need to live, you know, I need to do something to get out of here. Hello, my name is Jackie Schimel. I'm the host of the Bitch Bible Podcast. If you never listened to the Bitch Bible Podcast, I genuinely feel terrible for you. Because up until this moment, you haven't really been living or experiencing true, untethered, unhinged, morally flexible joy

Infiltrating your ear canals on a weekly basis The good news is there's still time for you Katie Buckle up Buttercup because I'm about to take you on a real bender for pop culture musings aggressive social commentary both piping hot and barely lukewarm takes plus charisma for days make sure you listen to the bitch Bible podcast because objectively and unbiasedly in my very humble opinion. the the the very humble. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their tea tea. tea their their their their their their their their their their their their their the charisma for days, make sure you listen to the Bitch Bible Podcasts because objectively and unbiasedly, in my very humble opinion, it's the best podcast you will ever listen to. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll gaffa, you'll be appalled. And guess what, Katie, you'll just keep coming back for more. So go listen to the Bitch Bible podcast available wherever you get your podcast. You're welcome.

So Christina has watched her high school sweetheart go from car thief to pay phone installer to an RV driving Jesus. And after a full 13 years of this shit, she had finally hit her breaking point. I didn't know what I was going to do. All I knew is I couldn't stay there anymore. It was killing me. And I decided, you know what, I'm going to meet somebody. I'm going to do. All I knew is I couldn't stay there anymore. It was killing me. And I decided, you know what? I'm going to meet somebody. I actually was celibate for 13 years because he said that since he divorced me, that no other man could have me. And I didn't want to be with anybody else at that point.

Because I was too ashamed of myself, you know, like what I had done. So I went online and wound up seeing the good looking guy there. And I said hi to him or I liked his picture or something and he started messaging me. And he said, well, you know, I live in Ileton, which was literally 10 minutes from me. We can meet up at the Hotel Del Rio, which is actually a little bar. Said, okay. But, no, I drove over in one of Dale's vans. I took a van, I took over in the tomorrow.

Anyways, I got out of my van and I saw this tall, dark-haired guy walking across the street with a Hawaiian shirt and a pair of khaki shorts on. And I said, I want to marry that man. I just knew it when I saw him and we met and we hit it off. Had a great time. I hadn't dated since I was a teenager, you know, So I'm 43 years old, I meet this guy. And I told him flat out, you know, I'm on medication and I'm in a cult. I just told him flat out, you know. I said I was leaving the cult.

And he was like, well, I always wanted to date a crazy person. For six full months, Christina was living in the cult and sneaking out to date the Hawaiian shirt Hattie. A wonderful man with his own culty background. He's actually Mormon and believe it or not not a practicing Mormon. So I know that's a whole other story. Yes in fact it was the last episode. Oh Tal Bachman and and your accompanying Prairie Rock and 90s pop. And another one coming up in Tyler's upcoming episode. Me? Yeah. Yeah. It's about time. I got some airtime on this show. You haven't talked enough in this episode. That's for damn sure. Did I tell you about the three cries of Ypsolanti? It's really good. Missed a payphone reference to. There's there. There's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's a couple there's there's there's a couple there's a couple the the couple the couple their their th. There's a couple th. You. You. You's a couple th. You's a couple th. You's a couple. You's a couple. You're. You're. You're th. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. the.ell you about the three cries of Ypsilanti? It's really good.

I missed a pay phone reference to there's a couple that I left on the cutting room floor. So Christina and all of her numerous sins were eventually discovered by the leaders and... They brought me before the council. In the sanctuary of the church, the middle portion, they put all these tables toguar in a big square, kind of like King Arthur's table or something. Everybody sat around it and called me in. And I sat there and put on judgment before everybody. Why are you wanting to choose to leave? You're a bad person because you're dishonoring Dale. You're dishonoring him by leaving. And I said, what would you rather me do?

Stay here and be miserable and treat Dale wrong or leave? And you guys don't have to worry about me anymore. And I just said, I'm done. I'm not doing this. And I basically quit. And then he just smiled. When I said that, and shook his head, yes, and then proceeded to, and then Julie, you take me outside and show me that they bought me a quote unquote new car

so that I have a car to leave in. Well it was a salvaged car with only one motor mount holding the motor in. So yeah, 14 years of marriage and I get a salvaged car and so I could leave. Super Christlike of you, Dale. Yeah, just doing the Lord's work, Dale. But Christina got in her salvaged car and made her way to her new love. And we got an apartment, and we got a house. Oh, and I got a job, we paid bills together, and it actually works out really, really well for us,

and it feels good knowing that I'm taking care of my stuff, you know? We got married in Lake Tahoe. We actually got married over Emerald Bay. The pictures were gorgeous. I made him give a suit and, you know, all that. My son was there, my son walked me down the aisle, but he wound up leaving and going into the military and then going through his own hill of realizing that he was living in a cult and all that. But now he is a very, very unique person.

If there is anything you would want to say to Dale today, do you know what it would be? I don't think I have anything to say to say to.. I, the military a a a a a a the military the military. I, the military the military. I, the military the military the military the military the military. I, the military the military the military the military, the military, the military, the military, the military, the military, the military, the military, the military, the military the military the military, the military, the military the military the military thi, the military thi, thi, thi, thi, the military the military the military the military the military to the military, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the military. And, the military. And, the the military. And, the they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, they. And, today, today, the. And, they. And, they. And, the. And, the, the, the, th person. If there is anything you would want to say to Dale today, do you know what it would be? I don't think I have anything to say to him, you know, it is what it is. He did what he did. I did what I did, you know. But I have no idea where he's living or anything like that. I don't know what's going on. So I will tell you this, I left it was maybe two years, three years max and that whole thing dissolved. And how did you know you were in a cult? It seems like you came to that pretty quick. No I didn't actually I was joking that with my husband at the time when I said I'm in a cult I joked around a tolk. Because that's one thing Dale always did, what he would joke around, yeah, we're in our cult, this is a cult, because we all

stuck together, so he would make jokes about it. Yeah, we're gonna drink some Kool-Aid and you know, stuff like that. But I didn't come to the conclusion that I was in a cult until my youngest son said to me, and he was yelling actually. He's like, it's a fucking cult, mom. You need to get that across. It's a fucking cult. You need to realize that it was a cult. And I don't know something happened. I was just like, you're right. And my husband had been telling me, you were in a cult, you know, but it took years for me to admit, fully admit that I was in a cult. I didn't believe it. And what it. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that that that that that that that th that years for me to admit, fully admit, that I was in a cult. I didn't believe it. And what about her other sons?

My middle son hasn't talked to me since the day I left 12 years ago. And my older son talked to me for a while, but he's now not talking to me at all. I have five grandkids from them, four girls and a boy, I never get to see. Yeah. And how do you deal with that pain of not being able to be in toubreaughed? Well, I'll be completely honest, you know, I'm not a per-depression, and sometimes I will have too many beers. Now, it comes in waves. The sadness does.

You know, when you have your normal routine of things that you do and you go to work, you don't really have time to meditate or think about certain things, but then when you're alone, it's quiet, and it creeps in, you know, that pain does. My husband always tells me that, you know, they'll wake up one day, you'll see it and they'll reconnect. And he told me, just like you did it with your mom, because you know, with the cold, we had to separate from our families, and it was 25 years before I reconnected with my mom, because I had resentment to thrown in my childhood, and thuu and thu and thu and thu and thu and thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, that's that's, thi, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the, thin, the, that, threaten, that, throwne, threaten, thin, the, thin, that, thiiiiii, that's that's things that happened in my childhood. And then we were able to have dialogue and get it all worked out.

She had cancer and we wound up having her stay with us in hospice until she passed. And I was very thankful, sorry, and then cry. I was very thankful to have that time with her before she passed. And I was able to reconnect when I did, because it was only just a matter of years before she was gone. So I'm hoping the boys will do the same before I'm gone. And how has your husband supported you through the healing of everything?

This man has listened to me, blubbered my eyes out over some of the silliest stuff. One thing he did that I'll never forget. It was right after my mom died and I was already hurt, you know, having a hard time because of that, but there were other things going on and my boy is not being around, I lost my mom and I was crying in the floor and he laid next to me, and he just stroked my hair and let me cry. I probably was there with there with there with there with there the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to me, to be to be told, and I, and, to me, told, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. And, th. And, thin, thin, thin, thin, th. And, th. And, th th toe, th toe, th toe, th toe.e.e.e. And, th th toe. And, th I probably was there a good hour and a half, and he just laid there with me and just strove my head and let me cry it out. And I'll never forget that.

It was just amazing. That's the kind of support he has given me all along. Now in my out of the cold years, I'm up in Northern California outside of Reading. And I've got three dogs that I cherish and two cats and we live on five acres with lots of trees and stuff to keep me busy. And when we are together we just enjoy each other's company. And I got out and everything that was said to me like you're going to go to hell and you're, you're not going to make it, make it you're gonna become this terrible person and all of that's lies. And to that end we'll close today with a quote from the should have been

cult leader Fred Rogers. I think everybody longs to be loved and longs to know that he or she is lovable and consequently the greatest thing that we can do is help someone know that they're loved and capable thable thable the thable the thable thable the thable the thable the thable the the the thable their their their their their thable thable the their the the the the the the. the. the thi thi theat theo-a. to to to to to the's to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. thi. thi. th. the is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to th. the to the the to the to the the to the to the the the the is the is the is the is the is the is te is te is te is te is te is to te is to to to the is to to the is the is to to thing that we can do is help someone know that they're loved and capable of loving. Thank you Christina for sharing your story with us. To be married to a cult leader is something that most cannot relate to, yet your story is relatable once put in the context of abuse, power, and control. And again I did interview Christina's youngest son who has his own heartbreaking story that we will feature in a future episode. It's a rarity to know the cult leader before he or she became the cult leader. Well, you know what they say?

Behind every cult leader is a bad boy who steals cars, smokes, does drugs, and winds up and juby. It's just so cliche. And we'll be back next week with a very special guest, Dr. Stephen Hassan. He is the author of what many of our guests read when they are coming out of cults, combating cult mind control. He is an expert in the area, very famous in the cult space, and was himself in a cult. He was in the Mooney's. And it felt like somebody opened the Venetian

blinds and a little sun came in. I felt like I had just stepped off the skyscraper and I was falling and I had no idea where I was going. I cried for hours because it was like someone waking you up from a nightmare going, this isn't real. Everything you've been believing with all your heart and soul is bullshit and it was hard. Very traumatic. Oh, a Zion occult is written produced and hosted by me, Fact Finder Miesum. And me something, something, sarcasm, Iacuzzi. And special thanks to my bitch sister Polly for the Lesaber intro. Sound design and edit by the man with no shoes, Rob Parra.

Studio engineer today behind the glass is Stacey Parra. Spelled differently, guys. Whoa. My glow. My paradox. That's quite a Para names. Keep going. One more.

I would like a pair of shorts. That failed. Parashoot pair of shorts. That fell. Parishut out of here. Good one. Good one. Video is Gabby Rap. I think it's time to wrap it up. Purify me. Don't spare my life.