Was I In A Cult? - Mary Kay Cosmetics: “The Lipstick Tornado” OR ““Faith First, Family Second, Financial Ruin Third”

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Whitney wanted a Friday night dress. She got a pink Cadillac and a cult instead.At 21, she joined Mary Kay just trying to pay her $200 rent. What she got was a crash course in manipulation disguised as empowerment, a swirl of culty catchphrases, and a trunk full of sparkle-dusted dreams.In this episode, Whitney takes us on her journey from California cake decorator to one of Mary Kay’s youngest Sales Directors—and eventually, to the other side, where she finds healing, purpose, and a life that’s truly her own.No pins. No pearls. No plastic praise.LINKS:Come see us LIVE at the Napa Valley Streaming Festival!Follow us for more culty content: @wasiinacultSupport the show: If Was I in a Cult? has impacted you, please rate and review—it really helps more people find us! And consider joining our Patreon for ad-free episodes and bonus culty goodness.Have a dark and sparkly story of your own? We’d love to hear it. Reach out anytime: [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is filled with sparkle, cult Barbies, and dangerously high high heels. Please listen appropriately. I just was not making time. It almost ruined my marriage. That's all I did. That's all we spoke about. That's all the fun things that I would do. I always was at an event. I was always working. I was always on. All I did was Mary Kay. Welcome to the show everyone. I'm Liz Ayacuzzi. And I'm Tyler Meesum. And today we're bringing you another MLM story, but not just any MLM guys. This is one of the OGs of multi-level marketing, also known as, we're just going to say it.

Colts. It's a cult. Colts. It's a cult, guys. MLMs are cults. Now we've done two prior episodes about MLMs. Yeah, we sure have, but this one, why this one's got it all. It's got pink Cadillacs, flashy seminars,

your grandmother's favorite lipstick. We're talking about Mary Kay Cosmetics. I remember my mom having Mary Kay products on her bathroom counter growing up, and they always looked so nice and expensive. She didn't sell Mary Kay herself, but clearly someone got her. Someone got to her.

Now I wanna know who. Mary Kay Cosmetics was founded in 1963 by Mary Kay herself, but clearly someone got her. Someone got to her. Now I wanna know who. Mary Kay Cosmetics was founded in 1963 by Mary Kay Ash, a woman who promised the three E's, empowerment, entrepreneurship, and enrichment. All wrapped neatly in pretty pink packaging. They disguised the ruse by calling themselves, quote, independent beauty consultants, which is what Tyler calls himself

every day without having to work for Mary Kay. Sometimes you just need to be held and told you're an independent beauty consultant and you're pretty. Is that like a FBI federal body inspector kind of thing? It's a female body inspector Rob. Don't make me pull out my badge. Independent Beauty Consultants, of course, as Liz said, is just really a clever phrase for independent debt creators, which is exactly what they are. Ain't that the truth? So with that, let's introduce today's sparkly guest. glow for it babe. I'm Whitney. I'm a California girl and I like to sparkle. I was born in Colorado to a single mom who was young,

who was a stylist, a hairdresser. I was just like a latch key kid because my mom had to work, so I'd go home from school, let myself in but I mean, I had a really good childhood. I got to experience a lot of life in Vail, Colorado, which is bougie AF. So childhood in Colorado, single mother, she had a ton of independence. But when Whitney was 13 years old, she got cancer.

So I lost my hair and all that. My goal in life has always been to make people feel good about themselves. And I think that's another reason why Mary Kay got me because it was disguised in making women feel beautiful. After Colorado, Whitney moved around a bit, eventually landing in Chico, California, ready to start her adult life. At the end of high school, I was kind of ready to spread my rings and fly. And so when my high school sweetheart moved to Chico, I was like, here I come.

And I lived in the crappiest duplex in the alley in downtown Chico. The car was disgusting and there was a garbage can in front of my door that a possum lived in. It was not ideal but it was fine. Everything was fine. And her rent wasn't much but you still need to pay it. I needed a job for my $200 rent and so I started working at Baskin-Robbins and I decorated cakes. I was aspiring to go to Chico State to be a nurse and I was not doing great in my nursing. So then I was like, I'm going to be a teacher. And then I decided I don't like everybody's kids and I couldn't do that. Valid. I mean, really, who likes other people's kids? However, I am going to give a shout out to teachers.

They deserve praise. And a raise. So now Whitney has given up the idea of becoming a nurse, given up becoming a teacher, so well, now what? My mom met this lovely lady who I still adore. We spent Christmases, Thanksgivings. They were our family for a long time. So I trusted her and she was like, well, Whitney, I saw Mary Kay. You should really look into it. I had seen Pink Cadillacs before that.

And I knew that it was for Mary Kay Cosmetics, but I didn't know anything else. She painted this picture of, you get to dress like a movie star. We have fun meetings. You can earn prizes. That's key, prizes. And it's just really fun and it's easy, you just sell makeup, like everybody needs makeup, it's a consumable product, and

she's like, I'm gonna call my director and tell her about you and maybe we can meet tomorrow. And I remember being so excited to meet her and so then the next day this woman she walks in and she is dressed to the nines like on point and I was just like whoa this woman is gorgeous she's like a little greek barbie doll and she told me all about it and she's bubbly and they tell you well you can sign up for $200 and you get your starter kit and like some samples and a miracle set because that's what you're trying to sell to people because that's your biggest moneymaker and they tell you you know it's cheaper just to become a consultant because if you love the miracle set it's the same price to

become a consultant as it is to buy the miracle set, it's the same price to become a consultant as it is to buy the miracle set. So you might as well just become a consultant. Just a tiny reminder that this is how most people get recruited into cults, buy a loved one, a family member or a best friend, someone they trust implicitly. I was looking for extra money with my cake decorating. This is bonus to buy a dress so that I can go out every Friday night in a new dress because priorities.

I mean, obvi. So you sign up. I paid my $200. Actually, I think my grandma bought my starter kit for me because $200 is my rent. Keep in mind. Grandma ZamEx, the unofficial sponsor of every MLM. Don't join a cult without it.

They tell you, you know, you can't sell from an empty cart. You're like, well, yeah, that makes sense to me. I need stuff to sell or else what am I doing? Reminder, in real jobs, your boss doesn't make you buy inventory. If you work for the Gap, you don't have to buy t-shirts in order to sell them. Just throwing that out there for everyone. No red flags here, guys. Just hot pink ones. You can open your store with different packages. And for your first order only, you get extra product the more you buy for free.

But it starts at $600 and then I think it's $1,200 and $2,400 and then $3,600. So at that point, they had a new boyfriend and we were living at his mom's house and she was like, okay, I'll get you the $600 store. And she helped her buy it and immediately the dangling carrots or rather cheap costume jewelry started rolling in. When you sell your first $600, you earn this ring and then there's a set of pearls, earrings, necklace and bracelet that you earn from sharing. So you have to share the opportunity with three people and then you earn your pearls.

And then every time you earn one of these little trinkets that are literally from China that are like a dollar that now costs you like $600 and your dignity because you're telling people hey Do you have to hear about this because I need my pearls if I don't have my pearls. I'm not cool You know, um you're selling stuff or basically if you want just buying stuff to earn the privilege to be around sales directors and other people that are recruiting a lot.

There's like sales contests and you want to be in these sales contests because you get like exclusive perks like a sleepover at your director's house. And who doesn't wanna have a midnight snack pillow fight with your coworkers? Ooh, ooh, ooh, I don't. That's who. Ah, rude. The next time you and Rob have a sleepover,

do not invite me, okay? I don't wanna be there. Fine, Rob's gonna braid my hair, tell some ghost stories. And you're gonna miss out on all the gossip about boys. So Whitney, with the very sexy promise of having a sleepover at her director's house, she hit the ground running, hoping to sell some makeup. You mean trying to recruit more

quote, independent beauty consultants, which ended up including? Oh, my mom, my mother-in-law, my grandma were all consultants because I needed them. I tried to have my mom do it because I was like, mom, you need the extra money. You could really do this. She's no, I don't think I can.

I'm not a psychopath. But we're not blaming Whitney here. MLMs train you to target the people you trust the most. They tell you to make a list of 10 people that you know, call those people, ask them to do a party for you. And I was working my tail off to book 10 parties and also recruit. If you want to move up and be in the fancy outfits, you need to recruit. So I was doing my parties and recruiting.

And I'm honestly a terrible salesperson. So I really didn't sell that much at one of my parties. At all of my parties. If you said you wanted the whole gamut, I was like, really? Are you sure? That's a lot of money. The reason why I was successful is that I think that people wanted to be on my team, really, because I just love people.

And of course, a huge part of MLM culture are the weekly meetings. I was driving an hour and a half down and back once a week to go to my meeting because you have to show up to go up and so at those meetings they like teach you stuff and it's the same thing over and over and over and over again but there are different themes like lash bash you have to learn how to do it and that's where I learned that sparkly eyeshadow does not go into your eyebrows because it's like you're now in a pink makeup sorority and you wanna be one of the cool girls.

Which is another common refrain in MLMs, the desire to wanna fit in or be in the cool club. I guess in cults in general too. I personally feel left out of the Sparkle Party. Right now you do? And 10 minutes ago, I didn't even know they existed, but I still feel left out. Somebody invite Tyler to this.

Actually don't. I'll show up. But that's it. And so what exactly happens at these pink powder puff meetings? You walk in and there's fun music and there's probably like 20 minutes of just hanging out and greeting people and the first 30 minutes is just accolades of what women are doing how they're succeeding Cars being earned money being made cool career attire all of that then there's like probably 15 minutes or 30 minutes of

How to do it and everybody's like on the edge of their seats, writing feverishly like, oh my gosh, this person, she keeps lollipops and an eyeshadow sample in her purse and she'll just give it to the Starbucks girl, she'll give it to the lady at the dentist's office. And that's how she's meeting 10 people a day that she's now booking for appointments. And I, as a 21 year old now, was like oh my god $2,000 and you

make a thousand dollars of that that's a lot of money I'm gonna put lollipops and eyeshadow cards in my purse and give them to everybody and be totally cringy and annoying yes please sign me up that sounds great so then I would leave the meeting on a high and I would be driving my little Toyota Echo all the way home like, oh my gosh I'm so excited! And because I wasn't feeling very smart and successful in school where I was supposed to be like really hitting my marks and knocking it out of the park, I felt like this was my opportunity to like show people that I will do this.

And so I went to every meeting because I wanted to feel that way every week. And that's the magic trick. Mary Kay isn't selling blush. It's selling belonging. Sparkly pink belonging. We'll be right back. Oy, I have got the spring travel itch and it's not the kind that you need a prescription for.

There's vacations to plan, guys. There's flights to book and let's be honest, luggage to upgrade. You know, for those who travel a lot like we do, there is nothing in the world like a nice sturdy piece of luggage. And Quince, guys, makes really nice luggage. It's sleek, sturdy, and won't embarrass you at the TSA line. Looking at you, Todd, with your duct tape duffel. For Christmas we got my six-year-old son a carry-on roller bag from Quince. Yes, it was actually on his Christmas list and you know what, he loves it. It's a great bag. And if you're going to travel, look the part.

I grabbed a washable silk set that somehow feels like I'm wearing PJs, but looks like I own a pink Cadillac. Quince works directly with top factories. So you get high end quality for 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And what makes me happy is they use safe, ethical manufacturing practices and premium

fabrics which means I get to feel good while looking rich. Okay? For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to quince.com slash cult for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's qince.com slash cult to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash cult everyone. Was I in a Cult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. So many podcasts one can listen to, but you dear listener, you chose to hit play on Was I in a Cult. Smart choice.

And Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called AutoQuote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies. So you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Hey, everyone.

We are recording this and it's fun recording it. We leave a lot on the cutting room floor, but if you want to watch it uncut, if you want to watch Liz making fun of me more in depth and Liz making multiple mistakes on her reads, you can view it on our Patreon if you're silly enough. And you can see my faces that I make too. If you want it. That's a pretty good one. If you want it, that's a pretty good one. Wah! Back to the show.

So Mary Kay Cosmetics has a motto, guys, one they love to sprinkle into their meetings, events, and seminars. It's faith first, family second, career third, and be happy, and sell your product, and give people the opportunity to change their life. Which sounds beautiful, but as Whitney would soon learn, is total foundation covered bullshit. Now, I could go into the history of Mary Kay, but Whitney, well, she describes it to perfection. It's church with lipstick and ball gowns. So we were all like little mini cult leaders.

lipstick and ball gowns. So we were all like little mini cult leaders. I have my own little church and my bishop was my sales director and my pope was my national sales director. And God was Mary Kay. Boom! While I far prefer her description of the quote company, here is a little more about how it all came to be. Mary Kay Ash started her cosmetics empire back in 1963 after growing tired of watching men get promoted above her. She invested her entire life savings $5,000 to launch Mary Kay Cosmetics, determined to empower women through entrepreneurship. But soon, empowerment came with strings attached, sparkly strings, and her opportunity grew into one of the most successful MLM pyramids ever built.

And why exactly did she choose the multi-level marketing structure? Well, Mary Kay Ash spent years working at Stanley Home Products, a direct sales company selling household cleaners and brushes at home parties. Later, she worked at World Gift Company, which is a true MLM that sold decorative gifts through recruitment-driven sales. So she took the best or worst, depending on your perspective, of these experiences

and blended them into her own cosmetics empire. And while Stanley Home Products still exists today, World Gift Company does not. But Mary Kay Cosmetics? Well, it's still booming. Of course, when she founded the company back in 1963, MLMs were less scrutinized because the predatory aspects weren't as widely recognized yet. People simply didn't quite understand how heavily recruitment-driven it was or how quickly

debt could accumulate for sellers. Criticism and investigative reporting around MLMs didn't really start until the 70s and the 80s. And a woman CEO was groundbreaking for the time and Mary Kay Ash was a legend and a love bombing extraordinaire. I met Mary Kay and she took a picture with all of us, one by one, and she hold my hand and she told me that she loved me in Spanish. I love you too.

Yuki aromucho. Si. And I saw her eyes and I made a commitment to pass on this dream. Passing on a feeling of love and worth is one of the unorthodox business philosophies on which Mary Kay built her global cosmetics company. It's Mary Kay's distinctly female way of making a connection and a difference.

Pretend that every single person you meet has a sign around his or her neck that says, make me feel important. So if the starter kit is the gateway drug, well, Mary Kay's annual mega convention coined Seminar is the full blown psychedelic experience. Usually held in Dallas, Texas, Mary Kay's headquarters, it's one of the biggest events in the MLM world.

I signed up right before seminar, and it costs a lot of money to go to seminar, but my sales director is like, this is Mary Kay University. You have to be at seminar. That's where you learn all of the big things and you get to see the big picture. You have to come with me, Whitney.

I can't do seminar without you. And I'm like, yes, I need to go to seminar I want I don't want to miss out on all the details and the secrets. With your seminar ticket you get free quote-unquote free product new product and other consultants that didn't go to seminar will not be able to buy that product until a certain date that's farther than seminar. You pay for seminar, you pay for your ticket, I think at 200 bucks, and then you have to pay for your hotel and then you have to pay for your flight. So it's just like dumping money into getting $45

of free product or something, I don't know. And just for context, Mary Kay is a multi-billion, that's billion with a B, dollar company, consultants on the other hand, well, they make an average of about, How much? About 206 bucks a year. $206 a year?

Pretty good if you lived in 1827. Is that not a lot of money? That's what you guys have been paying me. Let me pick that up. An extraordinary amount for anyone. Lucky MLMs. It's really sad actually. Statistically according to the Federal Trade Commission, most people in MLMs average around

only $1,000 of income per year. And that's before subtracting the stuff they're pressured to buy. And you can sign up for everything. And you would touch everything. You can see everything. I even signed up for a Mary Kay credit card. I think it should be illegal to give anybody under 25 a credit card in the first place. But an MLM credit card? Are you are you joking me? I mean, of course, it's positioned as a tool to grow your business. Can't afford inventory? No worries. Just put it on a credit card. And watch is the only thing that grows well is your debt.

High interest debt. Broke consultants, broke system and a broke business model. Why everyone's broke, but at least they're sparkly. Everyone's broke, but at least they're sparkly. And then you get to see all of the diamonds that you can earn and you get to see the new career apparel coming out and you get to see all the women walk on stage and you get to meet all of the national sales directors and it is just ball gowns and glitter and everything. Mary Kay Ash had rules. That's why there's career attires, because she wanted us all to look super sharp, high heels, with

nylons all the time and no drinking. A day in the life of the lipstick sorority, but without so many keg stands. The constant need and want to earn to be around these people in the top, to be in their space, to be next to them, to be good enough to be with these people. And I think I lasted so long because a lot of these women are really smart. I was like, this can't be a scheme or something because they're smart. Like there's doctors, lawyers. There has to be something to this because they're not dumb.

Fun fact, most people in cults are far from dumb. In fact, studies show that many cult members are highly intelligent, idealistic, and educated. The exact kind of people who believe deeply in purpose, community, and the promise of something better. I wanted to be a leader in the organization. I was selling myself, man. I would make myself go out into Target or Walmart or Wet Seal or anywhere Starbucks. And I would start with a compliment and strike up a conversation and then just be like, I'm throwing a lash bash because that sounds like kitschy and fun.

I would really love to have you there. Can I have your number and I can give you the details so you can show up Tuesday at 7 with my friends, please? And people would show up Tuesday at 7 with my friends, please." And people would show up! And then Whitney, well, she upped her game and increased her MLM savvy. I also paid for the bridal lists from like David's Bridal, and I would call the brides and say, you want a free facial show up here. And I would feel so bad because I knew that they were excited to have this facial with their friends and they would come

and they would be washing their own face. And it was just such a letdown. Like I felt like such a fool, but I had my rose colored glasses on. So I would teach them how to use the miracle set, how to use the steps to wash your face correctly with this stuff so that your face would be perfect on your wedding day.

And if you bought the miracle set for me, I would do your wedding makeup for free. And again, they would buy the makeup from her. Because of Calling Brides, I built my whole business that way. And then that's when I was ready to go into qualifications to be a sales director myself. And in one to four months, you have to recruit 30 people. And all consultants have to be active at the end of your DIQ period.

DIQ stands for Director in Qualification Period. There might be a D, but it's lacking an IQ. Active means they have ordered $200 worth of product in one to three months. So at the end of this DIQ period, you're calling people like, hey, can you just place that $200 order? Call your mom, call your grandma. Our team is about to be our own unit. Can I just go ahead and place that $200 order for you

under your name? It's like going out on your mission as a Mormon. Speaking of someone who actually did go on a Mormon mission, this is nothing like a Mormon mission because Mormon missionaries wear much higher heels and much more lipstick. Avi. So real quick, the levels at Mary Kay are this. much higher heels and much more lipstick. Aby. So real quick, the levels at Mary Kay are this.

You start as an independent beauty consultant, also known as a makeup enthusiast with a starter kit and a dream. Then if you recruit enough people and hit your sales goals, you can become a senior consultant, then a team leader and from there a sales director. And people above sales director, well that's national sales director, which is basically the Pope of pink. Nobody

reaches that level. It's a lot of lipstick. I was becoming somebody that I didn't love because I was no longer really necessarily interested in the person that I was talking to. I was interested in building my Mary Kay business. I was no longer selling product. I was recruiting people and I needed bodies that would spend money and then you become extra annoying because you're calling 20 people that you know. Even the people that are like, please don't call me about this again. You're like, well I just I'm trying to help you.

I'm trying to help you make a lot of money. I really in my heart thought I was giving people an opportunity to like put their faith first, family second, and career third, when it's always, always about just the career. How can you make Mary Kay richer and better and bigger? And how can you do more? There was never an end.

There's always one more step, one more step, one more step, inner circle, inner circle, trip, trip, like whatever. Oh, the constant dangling shiny carrots. Only this one is, is a bit weird. Every three months you can be a star consultant. You have to sell $1,200 and up. So this is one of the Star Consultant prizes.

So she's a very expensive Barbie. And she has her really culty career attire and this is a Star Consultant pin. There's a lot of pins in Mary Kay. Sales directors can earn diamond bar pins for however much their unit sold. It's starting at $250,000. Like, sorry, but cult Barbie doesn't pay rent. Also, how was there not a cult Barbie in the movie? Yeah, I know. And if there was, she'd be the national sales director. And who would it be played by?

Jennifer Coolidge. Oh, we have a new product. It's really nice. It's a rouge, it's a new rouge lipstick. I put it on in the bathroom this morning after I got dressed. That would be really funny. She should have been in the movie. Sorry, Barbie, you lost out. You really lost out. All your sales.

In the most popular movie in the last 20 years or something. You could have been making 206 bucks a year, Coolidge. A consultant can earn a car, it's all sales-based. So if you keep selling, let's just say $4,000 a month, your car is quote unquote free. But if you don't make that sales goal, then you have to pay the difference, however big that gap is.

I earned my first Mary Kay car. It was the Chevy Malibu, and I thought my shit did not stink at that point. And then three months later, I earned my Chevy Equinox, which is a sales director-only car. And driving in your car was a privilege, and you were to never honk at people or flip them off because people saw the Mary Kay name on your car. So the pink Cadillac was first introduced in 1969 as the ultimate Mary Kay status symbol. Not just a car, it was a rolling pastel billboard of success. Well, you can't say the words pink Cadillac without me thinking about the boss. I'm all good for your pink Cadillac, brush me the seats.

I have very much been into Springsteen lately. His book I just finished is fantastic. He wrote the song Pink Cadillac in the early 80s. Part rockabilly, part sexual metaphor, and very much not about eye cream Mary Kay. The song was originally too suggestive to make it into the Born in the USA album but it found a life on its own as the B-side to Hungry Heart. Yet somehow this song got adopted by Mary Kay so now you've got these women and nylons and high heels singing along to a song that's literally about making out in the backseat. Springsteen once said that the song was about, quote, the conflict between worldly things and spiritual health,

between desires of the flesh and spiritual ecstasy, end quote. Which is weirdly accurate for Mary Kay. I mean, it's all about outer beauty, inner sacrifice, and the pastel-colored illusion of success. And being in an MLM, there is a feeling that you constantly have to be on. Because sadly, you do. You are the product. The car, the clothes, the smile. That's what you're really selling. But when that pink Cadillac or your engine stops running, so does the fantasy.

I would say that I'm an introverted extrovert. I still thrive on my alone quiet time. But I projected the exuberant bubbly Whitney all the time, which is exhausting. You can't run like that, right? But that's the person that people were sold on. Shiny, happy people in pink cars. Always. podcast called Life After MLM. It's hosted by our dear friend Roberta Blevins who was in Lula Rowe.

Yes, the leggings, the stinky leggings MLM everyone. She was featured on our show season one, great fun episode and she was on the Amazon Prime documentary Lula Rich. Really recommend her show and everything she's doing. So check it out, it's life after MLM. So now Whitney has shown up and blown up. I moved pretty quickly.

I became a sales director within a year and a half. I was in the top 2% of the company. I was 22. I was young and pretty and people like young and pretty people, right? So every meeting, I would be brought up in front of the whole meeting. I was being used as propaganda because these guests got to see a young, pretty person. In front of them, making money, earning cars, earning career attire, looking like I had it all together. One of my highest checks from Mary Kay was between $8,000 and $10,000 in one month.

They printed out my check to show people. And so I was a very good marketing tool for other consultants to bring in more consultants. And I was a sales director for four years. And then once you're a sales director, you now definitely have to sell or your unit has to do $4,000 every month to stay a sales director. Now all those people that you begged and pleaded to put their $200 order in or whatever for you to finish director of Qualification, they're falling

off. You got to replace those people because they're not going to be buying stuff and you need to keep your production up at $4,000 so that your bishop and pope are happy. The churn rate in MLMs is about 50% annually. That's right, half your team disappears every year. So Whitney wasn't just selling, she was plugging holes in a very leaky, yet very pink boat. So now that's what I was doing. I was having all of the people go sell. So now my congregation was earning their pearls and their little dollar trinkets from me, as long as they are bringing me fresh meat. And of course, the prize of all prizes. So, if you had your qualified order, your $600 order,

and you were a star consultant, you got to come to my house to have a movie night and hang out. Pillow fight! Let's tell horror stories about expired mascara and returned merchandise. Yeah, but here's the real horror story. Returns don't quite work the same way in Mary Kay. See, if you're a customer, sure, you can return your product, but it goes through your

consultant, not the company. And if you're a consultant, you can return your inventory, but only if it's unopened, bought within the last 12 months, and you're willing to quit entirely. Because in order to get that refund, you have to officially resign from Mary Kay. According to Mary Kay's own policies, they'll, quote, repurchase upon termination of this contract at 90% of consultants' original net cost,

original and unused Section 1 products. Provided such items were purchased by consultant from company within one year prior to return. Translation, no resignation, no refund. The only exception, if the product was damaged or defective, they'll allow you to swap it for a replacement, not a refund. or defective, they'll allow you to swap it for a replacement, not a refund. Once I grew confidence enough, my normal bubbly self started to just be. People like me. They liked me and people wanted to be in my space and I still just want people to like me. And, you know, sometimes like without big accolades, you don't feel

like people have a reason to like you. Because I had big accolades in this Mary Kay world. I was popular for the first time in my life. There was a period where, honestly, I didn't have really friends that were not in Mary Kay, which is really, really sad. I was just meeting new people just to meet people, to bring them in to my leader so that I could still be getting that recognition that I was very addicted to. Throughout Whitney's time in Mary Kay, she would often hear references to the company being a cult. But the Pink Ladies, well, they had a perfect response. But the pink ladies, well, they had a perfect response. People like to say this is a cult, but it's a culture and culture is all around the world.

And people might say you're brainwashed, but everybody needs a good brainwash. Those people probably need a little brain scrub. If they're feeling like they're not happy, they would say call your director if you're feeling icky. You need a little brain scrubbing. They said it all the time. It was out in the open. Gosh, I'm blind. No, you're not blind, Whitney.

What they were doing is actually called inoculation theory. It's when someone brings up a potential criticism, like people say we're in a cult before you do and then brush it off. It makes a joke out of it or has an answer for it. That way when the thought does cross your mind later, well, you've already been trained to dismiss it. It's like a vaccine against doubt, except instead of protecting you, it protects the

cult. Yeah, so there's a website they would just tell us not to go on, but Curiosity killed cat man. I'm gonna go on the website It's called pink truth and it's just a bunch of people that are pissed of what happened to them Right, and I would go in there and look at it and like well clearly they didn't do what you're told to do Because if you just do it then it's fine When somebody tells you you're in a cult or you're like looking into like the cultiness of your cult, right? You see those things and you're like, no, no, no.

More like yes, yes, yes. We'll be right back. Yes, yes, yes, we will. Podcasting isn't just about talking. It's about growing and ga engaging, and monetizing. And that's where Podcast One Pro comes in. Whether you're an independent creator or a major brand, Podcast One Pro gives you the tools you need to take your podcast to the next level.

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Like we are having $16,000 sales months. And this is when I was like starting to be on target for my pink Cadillac. Behind the scenes, sometimes I was just buying product. Because that's what I had to do, to stay in the cool kids club. I had just gotten married. A lot of Mary Kay people came to my wedding that I don't talk to at all.

But anyways, I was 25. I don't think anybody under 30 should be able to get married because you're still like a kid. You're still like figuring life out, right? So I'm newly married. I was on 24-7 and I just was not making time. It almost ruined my marriage. All I did was Mary Kay.

That's all I did. That's all we spoke about. That's all the fun things that I would do. I always was at an event. I was always working. I was always on. I'm running this sinking ship because you're always having to replace people.

We would host facials. We would also talk about the opportunity. The opportunity to lose your soul. Yeah, you get to make your own hours and you get to buy the product that you already love at half the cost. And you get to hang out with me. You're welcome. Congratulations. Happy birthday. And I was for sure always talking to two or three consultants a night about how they wanted to grow their business, usually like two hours. To this day, I can't have my phone ringer on because I have PTSD because my phone was

always ringing for something with Mary Kay. It was usually a consultant, like crying about how they wanted to be successful, but nobody was coming to their door asking for Mary Kay because that doesn't happen ever in the history of ever and I was raising my own little baby sales director and She was doing really well She was earning her car and she was actually really good at selling like she would actually sell like $2,000 a month and she was close to a goal and she called me and she was like Whitney I just don't know I still need to sell this much, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, honestly, I would just buy the product because you will actually sell it. But if you're not comfortable with that, then don't. You still have one more month. It's fine. You can still earn your car, all the things. I did have a little bit of integrity. If I thought you were 18 and just gonna put a bunch of

money on your credit card to buy all this product that I knew you weren't gonna sell, I couldn't do that. Integrity might help you in some areas, but apparently it doesn't go far in MLMs. My sales director called her unbeknownst to me and said just put it up to God, put it on a credit card, and I'll talk to you in the morning. You've got this, goodbye. And that broke her. That broke her and she went to a lot of my consultants and was like, Whitney said this and blah, blah, and that was not the way I ran.

I actually like, I wanted to sleep at night. Whitney's sales director might have tossed and turned at night apparently because for her, it was all about the inventory, no matter the human cost. And that's when something clicked in my head and I was like, this is not right. This is not right. I don't like this because I didn't even give my own grandma a discount on the fucking Mary Kay products. I prayed on my grandma.

That is so sad. My grandma and my grandma, that is so sad. My grandma and my mom and everybody that I love, like that is disgusting. I don't wanna live this way. I don't wanna feel like my friends aren't my friends, that I just wanna sell them something or recruit them. I don't wanna make all these phone calls. I don't wanna uncomfortably meet people

at the grocery store. I'm done. I'm broke. This was a lie. It almost destroyed my life and I have no friends. No real friends. I made the decision with my husband and I called Mary Kay and I told them to come pick up my car. Then, like, everything started to unravel, and people were like, you're so successful, why are you stepping away? And like, Whitney, what's going on? Where are you? What are you doing? It was basically just like a lipstick tornado.

It was awful. And I was like, fuck it. I will never do that again. Not ever. If I want a pink car, I will get my car wrapped. Thank you very much. It's cheaper. And luckily, my husband is older and wiser than I. He makes me happy and he loves me. And he gave me some time and let me, like, detox the pink bubble.

And I was like, I think I'm going to go to beauty school. So fast forward to the age of wisdom and truth of 2025. Where people spew nothing but facts, kindness and memes about cats. So in this honesty and share the wealth utopia of 2025, just where is Mary Kay? What's still huge, man. Seminars are still packed, especially because the economy and women are scared and we're looking for extra things and people still really like makeup. They're always, we're always going to like makeup.

It's enticing. And I honestly freaking don't understand how people don't know it's a cult. And I just hope that people heed all of our warnings. Whether it's religion or farms, heed our warnings. Just stay away if it feels weird. Or they're asking you to do something weird that's just in your gut. You're like, I don't know. Fucking run. Put fart spray in that person's car.

Like, make it known that you do not want to be around them. It's bad. Just don't do it. Save your money. Go do something else. Go get an espresso martini. You don't have to be in a trap and you don't have to feel like garbage about yourself

because I don't know why Suzuki's doing so well when I'm trying so hard and I'm not getting anywhere anywhere I'm just spinning my tires in the mud. That's gonna make you feel like crap. Don't feel like crap. Feel happy all the time by not doing it. And the only reason Suzy Q is doing so well is because she's preyed on everyone she knows, burned every bridge in her hometown, and turned every barista she meets into a sales lead. She speaks only in lipstick colors, has the emotional range of cult Barbie, hasn't slept in months, her husband can't stand her, and her kids keep asking where mommy went.

But sure, glow up queen and sell that miracle set to your Facebook friend's dying grandmother. Never hold back, Liz. So Whitney quit, and she did go to beauty school. Today? I'm a stylist and I make people feel good about themselves. I'm passionate about hair still, but I help women with hair loss find wigs and things that make them feel confident. I love that because that's deep in my soul

because I'm a cancer survivor. So like full circle, I am living my dream and goal of just helping people feel good about themselves and pretty and not just trying to sell them something. My number one job is I'm a stay at home mom. My kids are six and eight, two boys, and they're the loves of my life. I can't imagine life without them and I'm glad that they get to see like their real mom and they don't know their Mary Kay mom. Their Mary Kay mom was stressed out and really tall because

I wore like five inch heels and I'm 5'10". I think I'm still recovering and I to this day feel so sad. I feel like I hurt people more financially. Like I'm really, really hard on myself and I never want anybody to feel sold with me again. And that's sad that I have to feel that way. And I'm still a people pleaser. And I have really good friends now. And they don't want me because they've earned to be in my company or because I drive a car

that has a little plastic thing that says Mary Kay on it. I have something to offer people other than the always sparkly bubbly Whitney. That they love me when I'm sad or mad or whatever. Thank you, Whitney. I loved meeting your sparkle. And no, that's not something Mary Kay gets credit for. That's all you, my friend. I loved meeting your sparkle and no, that's not something Mary Kay gets credit for. That's all you, my friend. Yeah, sparkle.

Everyone, let that sparkle flag fly, but make it yours. No pins, no pearls, no pink Cadillacs required unless it's the Bruce Springsteen song. And if you're out there feeling like you're spinning your wheels in an opportunity that only seems to work for Suzy Q. Well, take a breath, take a beat, and know this, you don't have to sell yourself to belong. And if you do sell stuff for a living, make sure you go to the place you work to sell that stuff

and not to validate your worth. We'll be back next week with another incredible story. Okay, this is some dark ass shit they were into. And occult is the right word for morning land. Occult, because the secrecy and the ceremonies and the pomp and the circumstances was quite alluring and seductive. Meanwhile, it's truly a sex cult with a seductive leader who knows how to get money out of people. Just a reminder, the Napa Valley Streaming Festival is coming up in just a few weeks at the end of April.

And the reason we tell you this is because Liz and I will be doing a live show a full hour Was I in a Cult on stage. It's the same show as this same stupid jokes. But with lots of California Pina Noir. I don't know why I couldn't say California. California Pina Noir. Because of the Pino Noir. That's why. I don't know why I couldn't say California. California. Because of the Pinot Noir. That's why.

So if you're coming, let us know. Hey, shoot us a line. Let us know you're going to be there. We'd love to say hello. Yes, we would. And by the way, we've been getting a lot of emails lately from folks and listeners and we got to say, I love it. We love hearing from you.

We love hearing what the podcast has done and also we don't mind it if you don't like it. Email us that. Why not? Keeps Liz humble. Was I in a Cult is created, produced and hosted by me, Tyler, independent lip gloss consultant, Meesum. And me, executive director of eyebrowbrow Glitter, Ayakoozie.

Sound design and edit by Rob Pink Chevy Malibu Para. Vroom vroom. Never gonna get that Cadillac, Rob. And our assistant editor is Greta, Queen of the Lash Bash, Stromquist. Pluto TV has all the shows and movies you love streaming for free. That means laughter is free with gut-busting comedies like The Neighborhood, Boomerang and Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Mystery is free with countless cases to crack from Criminal Minds, Tracker and Matlock. And thrills are free with heart-pumping hits like The Walking Dead and Pulp Fiction. Feel the free Pluto TV. Stream on the show.