Was I In A Cult? - Mormonism w/ Tal Bachman: “He’s So Hiiiiigh… On Doctrine"

Episode Date: March 17, 2024

In the electrifying world of rock ’n roll, Canadian Tal Bachman, son of legendary Randy Bachman from Bachman Turner Overdrive, seemed destined for stardom. Yet, his path was anything but straightforward. For Tal, it was a constant dance between the chords of fame and the doctrines of his devout Mormon upbringing. And as the spotlight beckoned, Tal found himself at a crossroads, as the requirements for stardom clashed with rules of his religion. What led him to step away from the stage? And once he finally breaks free from the cult, does he find his way back?  LINKS: Jingle writer: @angelasoffemusic Tal Bachman: @talbachman Follow us: Instagram @wasiinacult Support Us: https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult Have a story to share on our show? Email us: [e-mail] — Head to Viiahemp.com and use the code: ‘inacult' to receive 15% off + one free sample of their sleepy Dreams gummies. (21+).

Warning, the following episode is filled with copious amounts of old white male rock music. Please listen accordingly. In my Mormon soaked brain, Satan was all around me trying to drag me down to hell and disgrace the church and destroy me. You know, so when these girls were like, hey, we just love your sign, can we get a picture? I'd be like, oh my god, when I put my arm around her to have this group photo, I'm gonna feel her boob and then what will happen? I mean, I was a true believer. I've staked everything I have on Ayakuzi. And I'm a happy pig just wallowing in shit.

Also known as Tyler Mesa. Okay, the reason I'm so happy this episode combines a lot of me into one happy, culti Panini sandwich, ex-Mormans, and rock stars. You're a rockstar? No, I do like making movies about them and in another life I probably was a rock star. I'm dreaming. Yes, but in the next life maybe, but seriously this episode is filled with some great rock and roll. Oh God it's about time. Yeah, that's our producer Rob who has to deal with listening to my old white man music. Liz doesn't listen to the podcast so she doesn't have to deal with it. Apart from Mormons and rock stars, we also love this episode because it is very Canada-centric. And surprisingly, we have a rather large Canadian following. We actually do.

We can see which cities listen to our podcast the most. And I can see that the city that has the most was I and a cult listeners is your hometown of Chicago. What what? What, Chytown shout out! Okay guys, if you're listening to this, and you're from Chicago, and you remember WGCI's birthday song, shout out. You are my people.

You guys know how that goes? No, I never heard that. Yo, y'all, y'all. Yo, y'all, y'all, it is. It's, you, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And. And, it's. And. And. And. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And, it's. And. And. And, it's. And. And. And, it's. And. And. And. And. And, it's. And. And. And, the. And. And. And. And, the. And. And. And. And, the. And. And, the. And. And. And. And, the. And, the. And, the. And, the. And, the. And, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the yo. And is today your birthday? Yes it is, yes it is, yes it is, you know it is. Yes, you know it is. And how old are you on this day? I'm 51. 36, I'm thirty, I'm twenty-four.

Go, Tyler, it's your birthday, go Tyler. Tyler, where are you from Southside? Bad boys, you gotta say bye-bye. Happy birthday from WCI. It's your birthday! All right. Happy birthday to everybody celebrating no. But right behind Chicago on the list is Toronto. And behind that, number three is Calgary. Perhaps it has something to do with the unbearably cold weather. And it's interesting because looking at this list, surprisingly there's one city that is somewhat high in the

listenership rankings. It's sandwiched on the list right between Phoenix and Queens, New York. It is a very small yet lovely town in England named Carshalton. In fact, according to my math and calculations, almost 1% of the entire town listens to was I in a cult. What is that like a hundred people?? that, it that, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a thi, i, i, it's high, it's thi, i, is a th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It is a th. It is th. th. It, is high, is high, is high, is high, is high, is high, i, i, i, it is a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, it's a thi, it's a thi, it's a thi, it's a that, that, is a that, to that, to to toeat, is a that, that, is a to that town listens to was I in a cult. What is that like a hundred people? It's sizable. It's enough for you to get on the ballot to run for mayor. Well perhaps we should visit Carshalton and stop in at the old Windsor Castle pub

for a pint and a chicken leak and hamhawk pie and a dessert of double stout sticky toffee pudding. Just so I can say double stout sticky toffee pudding. So if you're from Carshalton, drop us a Cheerio and send some double stout sticky toffee pudding. Actually, please do, that sounds really good. Yeah. Now, back to the point of why we're here. Today's guest you guys is musician Tau Bachman. I met Tal through a mutual friend, but when we were introduced, I didn't even remember or know that he, like me, was a Mormon. And he, like me, went on a Mormon mission. So we totally bonded over that many times over beers.

Over Pines and Carshalton in the Windsor City pub. No, you weren't there. Tal had a hit song released in 1999, which is right before many cult leaders claim that it would be the end of the world. We won't spoil what that song was now, but I'm certain if you don't know it already, you will definitely remember it once you hear the chorus. Without further ado, meet today's wonderful guest, Hal Bachman. Take out your night. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Okay. So tell me a little bit about just your upbringing.

Okay, I was small and then I got progressively larger. I was born in Winthen I got progressively larger. I was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. I was the oldest child. My parents had gotten married a couple of years earlier. I grew up as a member of the Mormon church. My father had converted after he met my mother, who was born into Mormonism, because that was a condition of them getting married. She had made that clear.

If she had been a Satanist, a Mooney, anything, my father would have joined whatever that was without hesitation just to get with her. He really seemed awestruck by my mother. But anyway, I was born into the Mormon church when it was still like proudly, algelyugly fringe non-mainstream, right? I mean if you think Mormonism is weird now it was weirder then so we could just go on and on. And we most certainly shall. When was he born? 1968. Well my mother was clever, she was charismatic. She did the kinds of things that Mormon housewives did in that era from what I could tell cheerfully. You know she made dinner and she took care of the the the the the the th th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I thi thi thi thi thi the. I the. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi thi. I the. I the. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thin the the the thi thin the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi kinds of things that Mormon Housewives did in that era, from what I could tell

cheerfully. You know, she made dinner and she took care of the kids. As to what dad was like when I was a kid growing up, he was pretty much the same as he is right now. Just wanted to play guitar pretty much all the time. His father is the one and only Randy Bachman. But I only know that because, well, you told me. Now, if you are one of our loyal Canuck listeners, you certainly know who Randy Bachman is. But those in say are number five city, Melbourne, might only know his music. So back to Randy Bachman. Well, my father started a band called The Guess Who, which had a whole bunch of hits in the 1960s.

I think it was the first big band to break out of Canada and so to speak, conquer the world. The Guess Who, a group of boys from Winnipeg, where I'm making it very big down in, down in the United States. Really successful, had a bunch of hits like These Eyes. These eyes. Cry every night. For you. No time.

There's no time left for you. No time left for you. No sugar tonight. No sugar tonight. No sugar tonight. No sugar tonight with coffee. No sugar to stand beside me. No sugar to run with me. You wrote laughing. Undone is my favorite jazzy tune that my dad wrote.

Undone is my favorite jazzy tune that my dad wrote. She's come undone. She didn't know what she was headed for. And when I found what she was headed for, it was too late. American Woman. American woman. She was headed for, it was too late. American woman. American woman, stay away from me. American woman, mama let me be.

Like he said, pig and shit, right Tyler? You know, I'm not trying to be judgmental, but it needs to be said that if you aren't playing air guitar right now, well, fuck you, you're wrong. That's it. It's as simple as that. I think I should see him right now. He looks like he's going to cry. He's so happy. Tyler, it's...

It's... They had a number one record from the last decade. I've never even heard of them, you know, never heard of the song or the artist. Hello, it's me. I was only the number one song for 10 consecutive weeks. I mean, it's no American woman, but... the number one song for 10 consecutive weeks. I mean, it's no American woman, but... I do. I've been wondering if you will ever remember that I was a hit too. I wouldn't have remembered that, though. I wouldn't have remembered.

I remember the song, but you could, I couldn't have told you that. I'm on TAL's team. I'm on Team TAL. You could have sung it. But two years after Tal was born his father Randy Bachman quit the Guess Who and started a new band. They called themselves. Bachman Turnham Open Drive! They called them B.T Turner Overdrive or BTO. Who are those pleasant old men? It's BTO, they're Canada's answer to EOP. The big hit was TCB. Bopman, Turner, Overdrive! This was a hard-driving, heartland, prairie rock, right?

They went on to have a whole bunch of hits taking care of business and I've been taking care of business every day you ain't seen nothing yet you ain't seen nothing yet but baby you just ain't taken nothing yet roll on down the highway. Let it ride was another big hit for them. Let it ride.

Let it ride. All right, so as I was putting this together, I wrote this line and thought of what I wanted to say, but frankly I think it it's funnier if Liz reads this. Uh, full disclosure, I have no idea what I'm about to read, so I hope it goes well. This song just makes me feel like it's 1976, and I'm a long-haul trucker cruising down I-80 with a full load. Peters set to 78 cup of Joe and some greenies to keep me awake Pop in the eight track this song comes on I crank it up lean back Pop me a jerky stick to my horn look to the heavens and thank God I'm a man

How'd that feel being a man for that short period? A long-haul trucker in 1976. I just got a semi, a semi-chub. Semi and your semi. Get it, I get what you guys are doing now. Big FM rock radio hits, big tours. They had all the fame, all the status. Not just my dad, of course, or BTO, but all of those bands, Aerosmith and ZZ Topp and All of them, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who.

Yes, I added this song from the Who, Bava O'Reilly, just so that I could listen to it. One of the greatest rock and roll songs of all time. Soak it in Liz. I'm drenched, sir. Hell of a line. And at the time, rock stars are titans that rule the earth. For real? There was a sort of awe around the rock star in that day and age

that doesn't exist right now, probably won't ever exist again. Up until I guess the late 70s, if you had a big song, you could go on a tour and you're selling out 25,000 seat arenas. And I have to say, there was an animalia aspect to rock concerts in those days. I mean, if you went to a rock concert in 1976, which I did as a little kid because my dad irresponsibly would take me to them. It was completely different to going to a concert now. People are smoking, drinking, you know, they're making out, their stampede seating on the floor. There was like a visceral, animal, exciting, rude, raw primal, unpredictable, slightly dangerous, or maybe more than

slightly dangerous aspect to going to a rock concert, just the feeling. There's no way to describe it in words, right? You just emotionally, adrenally, you know, neurally, it just, it was totally different. Oh man, I have got to get the kinks worked out in my time machine. But wait, weren't both Tall and Randy Mormon? What were they doing at a drug-filled rock show? That was the world that my dad was part of. So my dad went through the 70s, never smoking a cigarette, drinking or doing anything like that. I mean, he was an absolute fanatical tea total when everyone, not just smoked, not just drank beer, but we're smoking weed after the show and dropping ass it. Dad toured a lot.

And so I didn't see him a whole lot my first few years. Somehow or other my parents found the time to create more children, so I wound up as the oldest of six. When I was about three, we moved out to the Vancouver area. Vancouver just ahead of Edmonton in our city rankings. Vancouver is still a very British place. He still saw a lot of Union Jacks. There were little pockets and streams of culture and subculture that were very traditionally British.

At the same time, it was progressive. We had a lot of draft dodgers in that area, and a robust rock scene. So it was a pretty cool, interesting place. And when he was seven years old, we moved to Washington State. It is not far, but it might as well have been Zanzibar. You know, we wound up in this little all-American dairy town. It was 4,000 people, but a whole different world. So that was a big change. How strict was it as a Mormon in your home?

Strict as you could get, church every Sunday. So you would go to some meetings in the morning and then you would have to drive back in the afternoon for a longer sacrament meeting. You have a fireside that night, you've got family home evening on Monday. Thursday night was mutual. It's youth stuff, it's scouting activities. If you're in a leadership position, you might have administrative meetings on Saturday or early Sunday. You might have other activities. So we're talking about a really comprehensive life taking over religious path. And as a reminder for our listeners, what are some of the rules of Mormonism? No coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no cigarettes, certainly no marijuana or any other

kind of drug. Stay away from R-rated movies. No adultery or fornication. No masturbation, no pornography of any kind. And you really shouldn't be sexually exploring, like they used to call it heavy petting. You would be okay to smooch a little bit. But anything beyond first base is absolutely forbidden. All right, there is so much to know about Mormonism.

It is a religion filled with oddities and wild history, and we obviously can't go into all of it, but Tal can give you a little bit of the highlights. The basic Mormon story is that Christ came to Earth, established his one true religion, was crucified, rose from the dead, left his religion intact on earth, and then as the decades rolled into centuries, that true church became so corrupt that God's authority and truth vanished from the earth. Now the other part of that is that Mormons believe that

after Christ was crucified in Jerusalem. He ascends to heaven and then he descends in the Americas, where, like, the ancestors of the Aztecs and everybody see it. Then they write a record of his visit. So they have their own version of the Bible, their own sacred history, the indigenous peoples of America, who, by the way, the Mormon church always claimed were lost Israelites. So the Native Americans are actually Jews, according to original Mormon doctrine.

They sailed over from modern-day Israel, that area, and sailed to the Americas. It's kind of unbelievable. So I probably should have given you some prefaits. So basically, the Mormons believe that one of the Israelites and his family left Israel and came to America where there was nobody here, there was no Incas, nothing and they came here to America. How do they get across the ocean? According to the Book of Mormon, these Israelites supposedly sailed to the Americas in eight boats that were shaped like submarines, but they had no sails, no steering, and no windows, with only one small hole at the top.

The interior of each boat was illuminated by two clear rocks that glowed because they were touched by the literal finger of Jesus. And each boat was filled with people, food, and animals, and was steered by God on the 344-day journey across the fucking Atlantic ocean. Wow. That is genuine Mormon doctrine. Take that Noah's Ark. Obviously that didn't happen. So by the early 1800s, the truth has been lost, the authority has been lost, but one day Christ reveals himself again through angels to Joseph Smith, a young farm boy in upstate New York.

Joseph says that he was very confused because all the religions of the day were always in dispute about various points of doctrine. He wanted to know which was the one true religion and he asked God to reveal that to him. And Joseph Smith claims that God appeared to him and said they're all false. And long story short as Joseph would be the restoreer on earth of God's one true truth. And he produced a book called the Book of Mormon, which he claimed he had translated from an ancient book with metal plates, a literal book, sheet metal, with like etchings on them in an unknown language, and God had given him the power to translate these ancient writings. Well ain't that convenient?

And where did he find this odd book of golden plates? He claimed to have been led to them by an angel and they had been buried in a local hill in his area of upstate New York. I mean, that's probably a good enough explanation. And by 1830 he starts his brand new religion, which turns out to become the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Okay, so Joseph Smith starts this church, and soon, thousands of people join it.

And if there's anything we've learned from certain cults, is that it doesn't take the leader long before he uses his power to get laid. By the late 1830s, he's in there with the gals. They call it polygamy now. It wasn't polygamy, it was adultery. He was married, he was secretly shagging his foster daughters, his maids, the wives and daughters of his friends. I mean this was like Motley Crew, 1985 or something. Conquest after conquest. He would do things like, hold girls aside and have one of his buddies perform like a one-minute marriage ceremony before he beded these girls. But one of the other th th th th th th th th th th things th th things th things thi other th thi other thi other th thi other thi other thi o thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. He thi. He thi. He thi. He was thi. He was thi. He was th. He was hea-hea-hea' hea'. Hea'. Hea. Hea. Hea. He's. He's. He's. He's. He's. He's. He's, he's. He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He's the the the the the thi. He's the. the. the. the. the. thea. their. their. the the the the the the the the the the the the the one-minute marriage ceremony before he beaded these girls.

But one of the other things he did is he started sending these sincere believing guys out on missions thousands of miles away. He was sent some guys to England to bring in new converts. And while they're gone, he hits on their wives. And not only hits on them, but tells their wives, if you don't succumbed to succumb to succumb to succumb to succumb to succumb to to succumb to to to to to, but tells their wives if you don't succumb to my advances, an angel will kill me and it will be your fault. Okay let's see, we've covered God visiting a 14-year-old sheep metal books, angels, flashlight Jesus rocks, multiple marriages, sexual coercion, stealing wives, small dicks.

I'm just assuming Joseph Smith had a micro penis. Too much over compensation going on there. Anything else we're missing? Racism. Ah, right, of course. Believing Mormons born since 1990 will not believe this, but doctrinally the church was a different creature then. At that time, they still would not allow black men to hold what they called the

priesthood or the authority to officiate in a Mormon church service, which could be something as trivial as just passing the bread and the water around during the sacraments. So a 12-year-old white kid could do that, but a 60-year-old black guy, World War II veteran, who had devoted his life to Mormonism, was not permitted to do that because he had black skin. And that was absolutely unchangeable eternal doctrine. Until 1978, when in Orwellian fashion, it suddenly wasn't. So in Mormon theology, or you might say mythology, there's the whole kind of story about what we're doing on the planet and where we're going. I don't want to get

too much into the weeds for your listeners. No normal person would care about stuff like that. Well, our listeners might not be as normal as you think. Ah, normal's overrated. Part of the story includes where were we before we came to earth? Well, we lived up in a spirit heaven as spirits before we got our physical bodies. We had been sired spiritually in some undefined way by Heavenly Father and one of his wives or Heavenly Mother or

something. Now this is kind of like Scientology, right? But in some distant past time, there had been a gigantic cosmic war between spirits who were on Captain Jesus' side and spirits who were on Captain Lucifer's side. No one ever explained what the fighting comprised of. Did they have machine guns where the nuclear missiles was it, no one ever knew what the fighting comprised of. Did they have machine guns, where the nuclear missiles was it? No one ever knew. And in that great battle, there were certain spirits that were not valiant. They didn't fight, and those were the spirits who were destined by their lack of courage

to be born as black people. That's what justified that ban on black men having the priesthood, amongst other things. So this entire mythology has been white from the Mormon database now. Oof, out of a ton of information to digest. Can we just go back to listening to? Taking care of business every day. Taking care of business. Every day. Taking care of business.

Every way. Taking care of business. It's all right. Taking care of business. And working over time, work out. Come on, everybody. Cah, cah, wrong episode. He can care of business.

Yeah, as a kid I didn't know about all of that stuff. No, none of that previous information was told to young Tao. But what he was told was that the Mormon church is true. It is incessantly hammered into you that Mormonism is God's only true religion, the only religion that possesses the true authority from God to officiate in his name. And it's literally every Sunday. It's in every meeting. That message is hammered home. Is that cult-like? I guess so. I might need a snack, so.

Yeah, yeah, I gotta hit the can. Can we take like a two-minute break? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, see, in two minutes. While Tyler snacks and towelpees, we'll also the the the the the tie the tii will ti will tiii will ti will towel peas will also take a quick break and be right back. Also, why don't girls hit the can? I want to hit the can. Whoa, Tyler, what's... Why do you look like you've been through a food fight?

It's because I have, Liz. It was me against a pack of hungry zombies at the grocery store. It wasn't pretty. Ah, the struggles of the modern-day hunter-gatherer. You might might to th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi Ah, the struggles of the modern day hunter-gatherer. You might want to try a more civilized approach with factor. Factor? I mean, isn't that just another of those meal delivery services? Oh no, this is the meal delivery service to end all meal delivery services, Tyler. Picture this. Chef crafted, never frozen meals, magically appearing at your doorstep, ready to devour in just two minutes.

Two minutes, that's faster than it takes for me to decide between soup or salad. And here's the cherry on top. Factor offers over 35 different dietary options, including keto, calorie smart, vegan, and veggie, and more. So even the pickiest eater would have to admit defeat. Okay, it's impressive, but what about my wallet? Will it too go on a diet? Fear not, my cheap, oh friend. We've done the math factors actually less expensive than

summoning that takeout, Jeannie. Plus every meal is dietician approved to be both nutritious and delicious. See what I did there? That's called a rhyme. And all that with no cooking or cleanup? I mean, you kind of had me at magically appearing. Head to Factors Meals.com slash Was I 50? And use code Was I 50, that's 50, that's 50, to get 50, to get 50% off. That's code was I 50% off. Thatcom slash was I 50% off? Plus guess what, Tyler? They have snacks and smoothies, too.

Oh man, that's like winning the food lottery, but without having to pick six numbers. Or scratch off the thingy. Hey Liz, did you know that the average person walks the equivalent of three times around the globe in their entire lifetime? Well, I hope they're wearing comfy shoes, Tyler. But you know it's not comfortable? Trying to find a doctor when you're feeling sick.

Oh yeah, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but the needle is wearing a lap coat and it has a stethoscope tangled in it. And the haystack is filled with questionable medical advice from your Aunt Tammy who swears by garlic for everything. But fear not, dear listeners, because Zoc-Doc is here to rescue us from the medical mayhem. Zoc docke, the superhero of health care, they make finding a doctor easy as pie. Or as easy as finding your way to the nearest buffet after a long day of fasting.

Is that coming from personal experience or? I am searching buffet right now on Yelp. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online. And the best part, you can book appointments instantly without having to endure the elevator music symphony while you're on hold. No more awkward phone conversations with receptionists who think they're auditioning for a roll-in-a-soap opera.

And with Zok Dock's verified patient reviews, you'll know if the doctor's bedside manner is more like a warm hug or a cold fish handshake. It's a cold fish handshake. It's a blended fish entree, little sour cream, chives. You can filter specifically for ones who take your insurance are located near you and treat basically any condition you're searching for. It's like having a GPS for your health. Yeah and get this, the typical wait time to see a doctor booked on Zococ is between 24 and toe. toe the too to the to to to to the to the to the to the the to the to the the to the the the the the to to the to the to to to to to to to to to to to thi thi thi. It's a cold to th. It's a th. It's th. It's to thi thi thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It. It's th. It's th. It's the the the the the the the the t. It's tc the the tc tip tc tipe. It's a tipe tipe tipe, the typical wait time to see a doctor booked on Zoc-Doc is between 24 and 72 hours. I mean, that's it. You can even score same-day appointments because, let's face it, waiting for a doctor is so 2023. So don't let the medical mayhem

leave you feeling lost to confused. Go to ZocDoc.com slash Inacult and download the Zoc-Doc app for free. Then find him book a top-rated doctor today. That's ZOCDOC.com slash Inacult. ZocDoc.com slash inticult. And we're back. Now in the not-too-distant future, you will be blessed with Tyler's very own episode about his Mormon upbringing and going on his own mission. But again, no two cult experiences are the same, even if it's the same cult. And while I do know what it's like to be raised as a Mormon, my father was an accountant.

So I asked Tal, what was it like to be the son of a famous Canadian rockstar? As I was talking about earlier, the guess who was the first big Canadian band to take over the United States and everywhere else in the world. So the guess who was a hometown heroes for an entire generation of Canadians. And this continued in through the 70s as BTO became big too. And from that, an entire body of myths evolved. So in Canada, it was completely normal to everywhere we went, and even to this day, it's, oh your dad's Randy, oh yeah, yeah, you know my uncle Jack taught your dad how to play guitar. Yeah. And it's like, they don't know that their uncle Jack is a liar. But in Canada, yeah, you're my uncle Jack, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're my, you're my, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, you're my uncle, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their. their. their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their, their, their. their, their. their their their their th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their their the. the. th. th. th. their thught your dad how to play guitar. Yeah. And it's like, they don't know that their Uncle Jack is a liar. But in Canada, yeah, you're my Uncle Jack and your dad worked on the oil rigs together, eh? Oh yeah, your dad was before your dad was in the guess who.

I mean, you can believe those kinds of stories evolving, right? But what is really amazing is that when you or even my dad politely explains that the stories aren't true, they will not believe you. They always stick with their Uncle Jack or their mom or their auntie. They've heard every story from their auntie Cheryl who used to party with your daddy, oh you she would get totally hosed, totally drunk with your daddy and the golden tailgate parties, eh? Yeah it was when your dad was their th th th th th th th th th th th th th th get totally host, totally drunk with your dad, eh? And they'd go to tailgate parties, eh? Yeah, it was when your dad was living in Edmonton, and they'd go to the CFL games, the Edmonton Eskimos, eh? Yeah, I think my auntie, Cheryl got together with your dad a few times in the back-up truck, eh? Oh, yeah, you you you you you you th. Yeah, you th is like, you know, long time ago, it's probably like the 90s. It's like 90s, what, that was like yesterday.

They will not believe that it never happened, you know, and you're like, dude, he never lived in Edmonton. I come on, the timing is all wrong. They won't believe you. It's amazing. A big part of Mormonism is proselytizing, and you've probably seen young white boys and white shirts knocking on doors in your own town. You see, as a Mormon boy, when you turn 18 years old, you're expected to go on a mission. Which is what I did, but at the time it was 19 years old when I left, as it was with Tal.

And the pressure to mission is quite strong. I don't know how you could have grown up in up up up up up up up the the to be to be the to be to be the to be the to be the the to be to be the to be to be the to be to be to be to be to be the to be to be to be to be to be a moomomomomeconomic the the toeconomic community to mission is quite strong. I don't know how you could have grown up in a Mormon community and be a young guy and say, I don't want to go on a mission. And then not go. I don't know how you could do that. You're like 18 years old and everyone wants you to go on a mission, everyone you care about, everyone you love and all of the beautiful young women that you know are never going to give you a second look if you don't go on a mission.

For the rest of your life, if you're still hanging around Mormons, it's like, well, where'd you go on your mission? And you've got to say, for the next 60 years, I didn't go on a mission. You will never recover from that. All of your very real spiritual experiences you have experienced through the prism of Mormonism and you interpret them as meaning that, in fact, Mormonism is God's only true religion. And then you add in all the other pressure. How do you not go? Now, the weird thing is if I had not come to feel 100% certain

that it was God's only true path, I would not have gone. But after high school I didn't really know what to do, and I went to a semester of music college and it wasn't really for me. So he moved to Logan, Utah, home of Utah State University. Go Aggies. What the fuck's an Aggie? It's an agricultural someone who does agriculture. That's dumb. It is dumb, but I'll take it up with him later. I was like, okay, I'm gonna dive into this and I read all through the New Testament. I read the Book of Mormon, I prayed. I took a bunch of Institute classes, so LDS Institutes are little seminaries that are on university campuses. I signed up for an entire full-time

institute because I wanted to really immerse myself in church history and church doctrine and so I had a class there I think was called controversial issues in LDS history and it was taught by a very prominent LDS historian and he walked us through all of these controversial issues in Mormon history but from the perspective of why none of these things deserve to rock our faith. So he's giving us a Mormon spinjop and he just went through everything. The priest had been on blacks, polygamy, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which is another thing you could look into and I mean I'm embarrassed to

admit it but I had felt such a profound change within myself spiritually as I searched for God it never occurred to me that the interpretation that I had imposed upon those experiences was in error so I believed what the Institute teachers told me probably because I so desperately I mean I guess I wanted to believe it you just can't think critically anymore probably because I so desperately, I mean, I guess I wanted to believe it. You just can't think critically anymore. And so I said, well, you know, God is obviously telling me that in fact,

against all odds, this is his only true religion. This is a justification tactic cults used to keep questioning at bay. So I'm going to go on a mission. So when you decide to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission to go on a mission. So when you decide to go on a mission as a young Mormon boy, what you do is you send in your papers, right? You basically fill out a form, put it in an envelope, and you mail it to the church headquarters in Salt Lake City. Which incidentally is not even in the top 50 of our cities of listeners. Right, Salt Lake City. to the to' to' told the too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. the the the too. the the to me, the to me, to me, to me, to me, too, too, too, to, to, to, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too. too. too. too. So, too. So, too, too, the the the the the the the the the ttttttttoda, today, today, today, thea, today, today, today, today, too. too. too. too. too. too. don't think this episode's gonna help it move up the rankings I'm afraid Tyler unless you offer any new Salt Lake listener free Diet Coke.

So back to Mormon boys, after you send in your papers, yes after you send in your papers the Mormon leadership praise over this and they choose the location that you are going to spend your two-year Mormon mission. And that location could be anywhere in the whole world. Well what you believe when you the the the the you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you th th. th th. th thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toldld to to to to to to to to to to to to spend your two-year Mormon mission. And that location could be anywhere in the whole world. Well, what you believe when you send in your mission papers is that God has a special plan for your life, that there are people waiting for you, that don't even know they're waiting for you,

in Madrid, Paris, or Tokyo, or Wichita, everywhere. Sent in my papers, and the letter came and I had been called to Argentina. You got luckier than you, Tyler. But don't worry, I won't spoil your story. But what's the goal? You're going on a mission to do what? To meet people and share the gospel with them,

and ideally bring them to the waters of baptism as new members of the Mormon Church? And you volunteer and ideally bring them to the waters of baptism as new members of the Mormon church. And you volunteer for it. I mean, there's something fiendishly clever about this, where they're asking you to take two years of your life to go promote the religion. And you're not getting paid for it, right?

You're not getting paid. So before you go on your mission, training center in Provo. Provo Spain? Very nice Fletch quote Liz. No, but Provo, Utah. Provo, Spain. And there, for a few weeks, you learn the missionary lessons, and you are given a crash course on the foreign language of the country that you are being sent to. Howls case?

Espion, Spanish. And then you are sent away, away from family, friends, and many, and many, and many, and many, and many, and many, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thii and many, thi and thi and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiol, tho, tho, tho, tho, to to to to tov, tov, to tovv, to to to to to to to to to to to to too, tov-a, tov-a, tov-a, tov-a, tov-a, tov-a, tov, tov, tov, tov, to to to to to to to th, to th, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, the, the, the, thoooooo, thoooo, tovvva, tovva, tova, tova, tova, tovva away, far from home, away from family, friends, and many, many, other of life's joys. And if you think living as a regular Mormon was tough, being a missionary is even harder. You were under obligation to live very regimented lives, and you were not to read any book or magazine, can't go to a movie, certainly are not to watch any television shows, you're certainly not to listen to radio or records.

Could not call home, you can't actually go anywhere by yourself except for the bathroom without your designated, they call them companions, your mission partners. So you always are working in twos and you're always kind of keeping an eye in each other. Wardrobe is white shirts, tie. Usually you would be wearing a proper suit jacket with the accompanying pants and then underneath your shirt and your pants you are wearing what Mormons call Temple. And it is sort of special underclothing that you would get after you go through the temple and go through a certain ceremony. It'll be like extended boxers, they'll come down almost to your knees and the tops

are basically short-sleeved. They're white, they're cotton, and they have sort of sewn marks or symbols on the chest area and the naval area around the knee area that symbolized the commitments that you made in the Mormon Temple to always be loyal to the church and obey all of the commandments. Oh yes, of course, the magic Mormon underwear. Yes, which if you are a temple worthy Mormon, you have to wear. And the only place you can buy these underwear is directly from the Mormon church at six bucks a pop. Which is cheaper than my underwear,

but clearly much more material. Someone's getting screwed here, you guys. And you were a pretty strict missionary, correct? Yeah. I was a completely sincere believer. I was performing in an important role in God's plan to prepare the earth for the second coming, which was, we didn't know when, but it felt pretty close.......... I. to to the to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to the plan to prepare the earth for the second coming, which was we didn't know when, but it felt pretty close. I hit the ground running in Argentina. The field is white already to harvest. There's thousands of people that need

our message and let's go, go, go. My mission was Argentina Rosario. It was the whole northeastern part of Argentina. So it was a big patch of land and we had beautiful modern cities in our mission like Rosario and we also had very rural outback type dusty cow towns like you would have thought it was 1883 in these places. I had a very eventful, strange, fun, challenging, crazy two years out in completely wild, rural, northern Argentina. So you would knock on doors and you're basically cold approaching because it's easy to meet people in Argentina because they know you're not from there, you're wearing

a white shirt and you're living in a little town, 800 people and people are chatty and casual. So finding wasn't so much a problem, it was much more difficult, of course, to get them to listen to a missionary message, getting them to feel the spirit of God testifying that Mormonism is only true religion and to get them baptized as sincere believers of the church. So how do you do that? Bottom line is like, okay, you meet somebody, you give them a quick little chat. We'd love to share our message with you, could could could could could could could could could easy to get into the homes and they're very open about matters spiritual and Christian. So at the time I was out there, you had six missionary discussions, six lessons. First lesson is you're talking about how Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ. They appear to. Like, man, people are going to find that completely unbelievable, right?

You know, what are the odds of God and Jesus Christ, just personally appearing to you in the middle of a forest or like an angel shows up in your bedroom, which is another Joseph Smith story? And almost without fail, when we would get to that part of the first lesson, almost everyone was like, that is just so incredible. That's just so cool, right, th, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, the the th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the odds are, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi tho tho tho tho tho the thi thi thi thi thio thio thio thi th, that is just so incredible. That's so and it's just so cool, right? It's so cool because that happened to me last week too. I woke up in the middle of the night and Jesus Christ was like at the foot of my bed. No, I'm not exaggerating.

It was a very different culture, a very open about visions and revelations and no embarrassment whatsoever in discussing those sorts of things. Now that I'm talking about it many decades later, I'm like, I kind of feel embarrassed about it, but the trick is that after the first lesson, they were supposed to pray about it and ask God if it was true, and you're gonna be asking them to commit to be baptized into a religion,

they still don't know anything about. Who would join a church they didn't know one single thing about. On the flip side, who would ask someone to join a church when they know nothing about it? Well, Kate, when you're a Mormon missionary, there's a lot of talk about how do you help other people feel God's holy spirit? You can pray with them, you can sing a special song with them, you can share personal stories with them and then listen back as they share their personal stories with you. Well, you're going to start to feel a kind of emotional resonance altogether. And if this is done correctly, the person can then feel the spirit of the Holy Ghost, which is

the signifier that what is being said is in fact true. It's like a real burning in your bosom. Now when you're a 20-year-old, you're absolutely certain that what everyone is feeling is God's Holy Spirit telling every single one of you that Mormonism is his only true path. It never occurs to you that maybe that is a thoroughly human thing that can happen in many different religious contexts, but not even in religious contexts. You could go to a musical concert and you could have a moment where you're all singing along with each other and the vibe is right and the stories were right and the people

around you are right and it's just every bit as memorable and maybe even overwhelming. But you're not thinking that way when you're there on a Mormon mission. So you absolutely think that you're bringing God's spirit to these people, helping them feel it. And just how many people did he get to feel the spirit of the Holy Ghost? My partners and I wound up baptizing tons of people, hundreds. Like we just baptized families. We wound up, like in northern Argentina

finding pockets of indigenous people that had not assimilated. And we preached to the entire congregation and after we were done, the entire congregation accepted baptism and became Mormons. These people are lost Israelites. Now they're gathered back into God's one true religion, the learning about Jesus Christ who appeared to their ancestors 2,000 years ago, and we just baptized like 58 people, and like in one day,

so we thought we were living out a Book of Mormon fantasy. We are like, we are Book of Mormon heroes, man. Now that should be a song. With a Book of Mormon heroes come to save the day. Yeah, Liz, I think we can do better than that. So, I asked a dear friend, Angela Sof, a talented musician and producer living in Seattle, our number seven city, who is also an ex-Mormon to write a jingle. If you need to find a new religion, we can help you make a good decision. We've been kneeling to pray, baptizing 58 souls in a day.

Yeah, we're the Book of Mormon heroes. Book of Mormon heroes. We'll take your life and drag it up from zero. Yeah, all you need is a book of Mormon heroes. We'll take your life and drag it up from zero. Yeah, all you need is a Book of Mormon heroes, how. We'll be your Book of Mormon heroes now. Oh yes, I am feeling the spirit now. It was miracle after miracle. And you're having those kinds of experiences.

You take all of those things as further confirmation that everyone else is kind of wrong, and you're the only one that is right. Are those of you still wondering if, quote, mainstream Mormonism is a cult? I think they's getting your answer. After two years, your mission is done. Were you excited? Were you scared? I wanted to stay. I felt like I didn't have anything back home.

My parents had split up. I didn't have any big plan for the rest of my life. My dad never cared if I went to school or learned anything. All he ever wants to do. And that's all he ever thought anyone should should to do to do to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do. to do to do to do to do. to do. to do. to do. to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to be to be th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. toooooooooo. tooo. too. too. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. to do is play guitar and that's all he ever thought anyone should ever do because that's the only thing he ever wants to do. So I didn't have any plan there was nothing waiting for me. So I said to Elder Groberg who was the presiding general authority over my mission can I just stay out for another year or two and he said no you got to go home and start your adult life and so I came back to Logan, Utah. Immediately enrolled at Utah State University,

and I started to try to readjust, but honestly, I hated it. I felt uncomfortable. I wanted to go back, because I just, I felt such a sense of purpose and identity and mission. You know, Argentina, like there's little pickup soccer games on every corner. Kids are toin. on every corner kids are out you could go join in. Parents are inviting you in for like food. Loved the music down there,

love the people, love the barbecues. It's just that big, open, rolling, awesome party. And then I come back and it's, like I said, it's just friggin, a wonderbread. White people going to classes. White people. Blonde people going to classes. This is how the the the the the the the th I I I I th th th I th I th I th I th th I th I th th I th I th I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the theateateateateathea thoen thoomfoomateate. thoom. th. thoomate. thoomathea. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea thea thea ta ta ta. ta. together. thea. theauua. thea. thea. thea. ta. t classes. White people. Blonde people going to classes. This is how nuts I was when I got back.

I got a job at the slaughterhouse because like all the other guys were Mexican. I just wanted to hang around with Latinos. But his most important job, of course. I cared about doing my job as a Mormon. I was so convinced of Mormonism's truthfulness. I just was super into it. I was just a hundred out of a hundred thenenen-a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was a th I was th I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thoen-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s tho-s I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was tho- I was thoes I was thoes I was thoes I was th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thoes I was tho-a-a-a-nuts-nuts-nu-nu-s I was tho-s I was tho-s I was tho-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-s'-a-s. tho-s. I was tho Mormonism's truthfulness. I just was super into it. I was just a hundred out of a hundred living the Mormon program. I met a girl, figured that God had put us together, so we got married, wanted to have a big family because that's what

God wants us to do. So that's what he did. I'd been at Utah State University studying political science. I had two little kids already. I wanted to be a university professor at that time, but I could not see how I could support the giant family God wanted me to have doing that. And I was running out of money. And then right at that time, it was like late in 1993, my dad's drummer,

fell off a motorcycle, broke his ankle and couldn't play drums anymore. So my dad called me and said, I need a drummer and drums is my first instrument. Would you consider coming back up here? You can play drums in my band. You can use my little recording studio to record some of your own stuff if you want. That was something I already started to experiment with writing my own songs. And it just felt like the right thing to do. And you believe that the path that God put in front of you was to be a drummer? Well, it may be a musician, like a songwriter and solo recording artist, because after all, Dad invited me.

So you're kind of in a magical thinking type state of mind, and I just thought, I'll give myself two years to see if I can get a record deal. I had always been musical. I was in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 'll give myself two years to see if I can get a record deal. I had always been musical. I was in all the school bands, like concert band, choirs, jazz band. I had bands on the side with my buddies that we would try to write our own songs or play cover songs and stuff like that. But I wasn't sure that I wanted to be a professional musician. I thought it might corrupt me. To wander into that world that world that world that world that world, there's beautiful women everywhere, there's booze, there's drugs, and who could

resist that? And so by 93 I was like, I think I'm strong enough to resist all this. Oddly enough, why a lot of people actually become a musician is for those same reasons that you just listed. Indeed. The same reason I wanted to become a podcaster. Oh, so. the the the the the the the the their their their their th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thoes thoes thoes th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. There's th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the is the an the an theanananan thean thean thean thean thean theanan the an the an the an thi. Yeah, the same reason I wanted to become a podcaster. Oh, so many podcast groupies. Stop, we're recording, leave us lull. We're in the studio, gosh. Sex drugs and rock and rile, mate.

And podcasts, love it. Uh, okay, well, I moved back up to British Columbia, did the tours with my dad. They didn't pay a lot, but but it, but it, but it, but it, but it th. But, did the tours with my dad. They didn't pay a lot, but it was enough to kind of get by. The goal was to develop some sense of where I could go as a songwriter and performer. And what kind of genre would I want to do? What would that look like? Well, I didn't know because I loved every different sort of genre and I could mimic it pretty thoroughly. Yeah, I mean I loved Led led led led led led led led led led led led led led le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toecke, the toe'a'a'er. I toe. I toe. I toe. I toe. I the the the the the the the the the the the the toe. the the toe. toe. the the the the the the the the the the, loved the Beatles, I loved the Pogues.

I'll chuck you down like an old touching train. I thought they were like one of the great underrated bands. They fused Irish music with punk. Ah, our number nine city, Dublin. Well certainly, agree with you. I've been to Dublin and it's the best city. I fell down the stairs at Bono's bar there there there there there there there there there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, I was tho, I was thu, I was tho, I was the the the tho, I was tho, I was th. I was th. I th. I to, I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I, I was th. I, I, I was th. I, I was th. I, I was th. I, th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was the, the, the, thea, to toed, too, too, tooo, toooooooooooooo, toed, toed, I the the the thea been to Dublin and it's the best city. I fell down the stairs at Bono's bar. Bono was a bar there. And I was in college, of course, and getting drunk on Goldschlugger.

And that was when I just like ate shit the whole way down. And then instead of like somebody being like, are you okay? The girl from the top goes, welcome to Ireland! I could speak those genres, so to speak, just because I'd grown up around and it was not a new thing for me. And I, so I started to write all these songs and I didn't want to do anything hard-wrought because I thought that people might not be able to feel the spirit. If you are a believing Mormon Mormon, you always know that you're on duty as a Mormon representative. The mission never ends. You're always You always know that you're on duty as a Mormon representative.

The mission never ends. You're always representing the one true truth. So I was quite cautious about the kind of music I wanted to play. Writing a rock song is difficult enough, but even more difficult when you put the pressure of having to write a pop song that will cause the people to feel the spirit. Certainly not something that was on the mind of Mick Jagger when he sat down to write sympathy for the devil. Or when Nicky Menage sat down to write stupid ho.

Which to me gets the message actually across quite well. You're a stupid ho, the end. Did you need a whole song for that? You a stupid ho, you a stupid ho. She did and the world needed it. Yeah, th you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, to, to, to, thi, to, to, thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, t did and the world needed it, yeah. Yeah, I don't need it. You was stupid ho, Tyler. The end. So, Tal, feeling the pressure to make a song that invokes the Holy Spirit, went to record a demo.

I put so much time into these demo. Every note was perfect. There was no slop whatsoever. To me, this was my shot. And? I sent them all around. I got rejected by everybody. The music business is a bitch. The odds of getting a record deal are very, very slim. Shady.

And I just, I was like, man, I just don't think I can do any better than this. And I was worried, because I've tried to mistake everything on this crazy venture, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's th, and it's thi's not thirty, and it's not thirty, and it's not really thirty, and it's not really thirty, and it's not really thin, and it's not, and it's not really thi, and it's not really thi, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's not really thi, and it's thi, and it's thi, and don't think I can do any better than this. And I was worried because I've kind of staked everything on this crazy venture and it's not really going anywhere and it's not going well. And I was just barely staying afloat. And it's gonna sound like a cliche now, because it's kind of like every white guy's favorite song. But I heard creep on the radio one night. And there's the giant climax and the giant bridge He kind of goes into the now running out and And then the big that

No, you run run run run run run And instantly I was like, okay, there's something about the sound and the vibe. And so I wrote this song after listening to that record and it was a ballad called If You Sleep. And it's basically a three chord song. D-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's just three chords, like E, C-sharp minor and A. And then, when you go to the chorus, it's just A, back, back, back, back, back, to, to, to, to, to, the the the to c-c-c-c-a, the the the the the the the the th-s, the th-s, the sound, the sound, the sound, the sound, the sound, the s-s, the sound, the sound, and the sound, and the sound, and the-s-s-s-s, like E, C, sharp, minor, and A. And then, when you go to the chorus, it's just A, back to C sharp minor to E. It's just the same three chords.

And it's funny because I had been killing myself trying to write the cleverest, cachiest songs. I wrote, If you sleep, in like 15 minutes. And I knew instantly, this song is gonna get me a deal. When you're a Mormon, you talk about those spiritual experiences where you just somehow know instantly that something is gonna happen and then it happens. I ran into my dad's little tool shed, which was the recording studio.

Did this demo two hours, one take, one take on the drums, one take thethe drums, one take of the vocal. It was a terrible demo. It was very rough and sent it out to a couple of people. It made its way to Rick Krim, our mutual friend. Shout out to the nicest guy in the music industry, Rick Crim. Early MTV executive, a three-time producer of my films and the executive producer of the greatest rock and roll-and-rolled documentary of all time, Anvil. At the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and thi, and thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, t t t t t t.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. And, t t t time Rick was working for Sony publishing. Rick Krim called up the number on the cassette tape and next thing I know I was on a plane to Manhattan. Literally a week earlier I was without any prospects and now all of a sudden I'm in Rick's office overlooking Central Park and he said well

we'd like to sign you to a publishing deal. Columbia Records had come in and we accepted their offer and I had a record deal. I was like straight out of the garden shed, no track record and no fan base. So I had no clout. I didn't even have a band. Battelle got Bob Rock as his producer, who did albums for Motley Crew and Metallica, and he goes into the studio and records an album. Columbia Records believed the song If You Sleep was going to be a hit but first they wanted to release another song to gain some small momentum. This is called a setup track.

Chum the Waters as they say, get people ready for the big song that was supposed to be if you sleep that would come second and really break me as an artist. So they release this this this this this th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the song. the the. the the the their. their. the the the the the the the the the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. the song. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the the the the th. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the. the. song that was supposed to be if you sleep that would come second and really break me as an artist. So they released this little setup track and well. Radio just played it and played it month after month after month. We did Melrose Place. I did a tour with Brian Adams. I did a tour with the Bare Naked Laidayette's show. My next guess is from Canada making his first appearance on the tonight show performing his hit song, She's So High, from his debut, Tall Bachman. Please welcome Tall Bachman. It was lots of fun. So what was the damn song?

I mean, I know it, but this is called creating suspense listeners. Rob, hold off as long as possible. Don't give him to really begging for it. And they're at a stoplight and they almost crashed. You just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just they just they just they they they they the just need to hear the... Coo! Because she's so high, yeah, high above me. She's so lovely. She's so high, yeah. Like Cleopatra, Joan of her, Aphrodite me. D-t-t-doo-t-too-too, she's so high, high above me. I totally know that song.

Yeah, it was a huge head. You know, I was still a faithful, obedient Mormon. From the beginning, I said, well, I'm a Mormon, Sunday is my day of rest, I'm going to go to church, so I will not perform on the Sabbath. Plus, your conscience has been the the the the the the to to to to to to the to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe toe toe to toe toeateateatheaueueauea' toeathea' toeathea' toeatheaeatheaeoueatheaeoueoue' to toeoue' to to toeoue toe toe toe the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toe toe toe toe toe-sfe'e-sfea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea'ea rest. I'm going to go to church, so I will not perform on the Sabbath. Plus, your conscience has been worked on, and when you speak about fear, I actually spent much of my time on the road doing meet and greets, autographed sessions, literally in a state of fear. I'm terror. I was like really uptight. I couldn't enjoy those moments. I was so on guard. In my Mormon-soaked brain, Satan was all around me trying to drag me down to hell and disgrace the church and destroy me. You know, so when these girls were like, hey, we just love your song, can we get a picture?

I'd be like, oh my god. When I put my arm around her to have this group photo, I'm going to feel her boob and then what will happen. And so I actually got complaints back, like Sony Music Reps would talk to my manager and say, could you tell Tau to relax? He seemed like he just didn't want to be there and he wasn't really engaging, and I wasn't really engaging. I couldn't enjoy it. I was a thea tapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapap th. I was th. I was t th. I was t, I was t, I t, I t, I tha tha tha tm, I tm, I tho, I tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm, I'm, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thi. I'm't enjoy it. I was so freaked out. I mean, I was a true believer. I've staked everything I have on God's one true religion. TOWL's first single, She's So High, reached number 14 on the billboards top 100. Radio just played it and played it month after month. Could she so high? But remember, this was only meant to be a setup track. We couldn't get to the second single because radio wouldn't stop playing the first

single. So it's a good problem to how because you got your song on the radio, but the downside is that you can't really break as an artist. You have a kind of disembodied song that has taken on a life and momentum of its own People they've heard the song a hundred times. They don't know who's singing it or where it came from It becomes one of those songs Right, so by the time long story short is they never really got to the second single by then they were kind of the record company was bored and they were on to other things. Now by this time, Rick Krim had left Sony Publishing and Columbia Records dropped TAL. Sadly, the single If You Sleep never really got much airplay.

Until today. Here it is, guys, the song that was supposed to be TAL's breakout singles. But where's the joy to cure my sadness? breakout singles. to make it through. Guess if you sleep, I'll sleep too. Guys, if you're anything like me, you are totally intrigued with all things hemp, but overwhelmed with where to begin. Well, today's awesome sponsor, VIA, is the perfect place to start. Yeah, I was kind of blown away by this brand. I mean, they have specific blends of CBD and THC, and the ones I had never even heard of,

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What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out of the way places to bring in his cocaine. My name is Joshua Davis, and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnamtown, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist?

Welcome to Varnamtown. Varnam Town is available wherever you listen to podcasts. So now, Tau no longer a rock star on the road with groupies screaming for photos, he's able to bring his focus back to his faith. So we moved to one of the Gulf Islands, and there was a Mormon congregation there, and I was a counselor in the branch presidency. I was the adult Sunday school teacher as well. All right, you might want to sit down because it's about to get deep.

Tal is very much an intellectual Mormon who would research intently, and he saw things that most people didn't. If I was doing the dishes listening to this and you told me to sit down, I would go, nope, I'm going to keep standing up. Eventually, you're going to have to teach Old Testament and I started to discover problems with some fundamental Mormon truth claims. One of them was that the Book of Moses, which is in a segment of the Mormon scriptures called the Pearl of Great Price.

Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Moses was his perfected translation of Moses's original book. Okay, well I discovered that couldn't possibly be true. perfected translation of Moses' original book. Okay? I discovered that couldn't possibly be true. The evidence is crystal clear that it was, forget about Moses, that it was not one single author that wrote the narrative portions of the Old Testament. It was multiple authors, and a later editor cut and pasted those various Israelite histories so as to try to create a single

narrative of Israelite history if that makes any sense. Anyway, I don't want to get everybody down in the details, but I realized that Joseph Smith's claims for the Book of Moses could not possibly be true. It was just the first crack in the ice, but I couldn't throw everything away just based on this one thing. But once that ice, but I couldn't throw everything away just based on this one thing, but once that ice broke I started to revisit all of the other controversial issues in Mormon history, which I had been mentally immunized against. So for example, the Book of Abraham. Okay, really briefly. Okay, so yes, in 1835, the Mormons were living in Kirkland, Ohio,

and they bought an ancient Egyptian papyrus from a traveling antiquities dealer. On the weathered paper were hieroglyphics deemed at the time indeciferable. But they took the paper to Joseph Smith, their prophet Cyran revelator, and he, through the power of God, translated this document into Holy Scripture. And it became stuff about planets and heaven and angels and he claimed that it's an autobiography from Abraham. It's not.

It's a completely pagan funerary document. There is so much more to this book of Abraham stuff and it is quite fascinating. Suffice to say we will cover this in my episode coming up quite soon. In fact, this is the story that broke my shelf. Broke your shelf? What does that mean? So when you're being raised as a Mormon, you're told that if there is something that you don't understand or is something that is weighing you down? Rather than have it weighing you down, you put it on a th, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, thi, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thri, and throomomomorrow, and thri, and thri, and thri. throoooooooooooooooooooooooomuuu. thi, thi, you down, rather than have it weighing you down, you put it on a shelf. So if there's something that's bothering you about the church or about the doctrine,

don't carry it in your backpack, put it on a shelf. Until. And eventually, if you keep putting things on a shelf, shit's gonna break. The shelf's gonna break. I just kept digging deeper and deeper thinking that I was going to find explanations that would bring me back out of this terrible dive that just seemed to go on forever, where every single thing now that I was investigating seemed to disprove what I so desperately never wanted to disprove.

So it was this almost a perverse compulsion. So my final thing that busted my shelf was an incident called the Kinderhook plates. Okay, see if I can make this really quick. It's the late 1830s. The Mormons are in Illinois and these men come to the alleged prophet Joseph Smith and they say we were digging up a giant mound and we found this plate. A piece of metal, sort of a bell shape, not very big, and on it is strange etchings in an unknown language. Clarification, it was actually 1843 and there were six plates allegedly found by a farmer in Kinderhook, Illinois. They're not, that's

not on our list by the way. So they took these bell-shaped metal plates, filled with these strange etchings, to the Prophet Cyran Revelator and translator Joseph Smith, and said, And we've heard that you can translate unknown languages. Joseph Smith grabs this plate, he starts working on a translation of the characters on this metal plate, okay? The buzz is extraordinary all through the Mormon community. This is going to be another thing just like the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their the theiron the theiron their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their and translator their their their their their their their their their their their their their their theiron, theiron, theiron, theiron, theiron, theiron, theiron, theiron, the the.ea, trea, treauiananananananananananananan trau.eororororatrificetermseoror, treoror, treor, their, their, their, the metal plate, okay? The buzz is extraordinary all through the Mormon community. This is gonna be another thing, just like the Book of Mormon, except this time we actually can see the plate, right?

This time that's a tangible thing. So he's starting to unravel another story. Joseph actually wrote about the plates, quote, I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of ham through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth. And Joseph kept quite busy translating these kinder hook plates. In between his many marriages to underage girls. And in May of 1844, he states that he is, quote, busy, "..., th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, th, th, th, the, their, their, their, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, I I I I I their, their, their, th. I th. I th. I have, th. I have, th. th. th. th. thr-a. theo. toge, th. trans. th. th. th. the. th. the. I have, that he is, quote, busy in translating them.

This new work will be nothing more or less than a sequel to the Book of Mormon. Book of Mormon part two? Love a good sequel. Don't tell me. He died. Poiler alert. He is assassinated before he finishes his translation of this plate. Oh, how very sad. Now, had he not been murdered in June of 1844, it is very possible, even probable, that Joseph would have published a complete translation, I'm doing air quotes, of these plates. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah. Not so fast. Decades later, a man confesses that he and he's that he and he said that he. He, that, that he, that he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he he he, he he, he he he he, he he, he he. He. He. He. He. He. He. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, that he was, that he was, that he was, that he was, that he was, he was, he was, he was, he was that he was, he was that he who communed with Jehovah. Not so fast.

Decades later, a man confesses that he and his buddies, they were the ones that made that little cutout piece of brass and that they had put the marks on there, copying characters off of a Chinese tea box, but they'd altered the characters a little bit. The game was they were going to set up Joseph Smith. So he does make the confession. What does the Mormon Church say? They say that's Balderdash. He's only trying to embarrass Joseph Smith now, but there's no way.

Joseph Smith's already on record saying his translation was legitimate. So they discounted the confession. And the Mormon church maintained the truthfulness tr trthis translation for the next 136 years. It's starting to feel like religions have just gotten much more lazy as time has gone on. Like why is everything so ancient? Why is all the scriptures so old? I think Scientology is doing great. Yeah, they are. Scientology really knows where it's at. They really have figured it out, haven't they? They're really modern. Yeah, great commercials too by the way. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. thi, thi, thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. the thi. thi. the. the. to to to to to to to to to to to theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. thi. thi. thi. the. thi't they? Yeah, and great commercials too by the way if you've seen them. I know. I am this close to just checking out what they do. So mysterious. So fast forward till like around 1980 roughly, a Mormon guy discovers that this plate is in a regional museum in Illinois and sends it it to a chemical analysis lab to prove that it's ancient. And when the results come back, of course, they prove the opposite.

You're kidding! Not, yeah, but go on. Metallurgic tests revealed the plates to be of late 19th century construction. Wait, what? They were made by the farmers to trickle Joe? You mean, he didn't really translate them? And in August of 1981 by the farmers to trickle Joe? You mean he didn't really translate them?

And in August of 1981, the church finally issued a statement that said, quote, Kinderhook plates brought to Joseph Smith appear to be a 19th century hoax. What they should have said was Joseph Smith appears to be a 19th century hoax. Now, when I read about that, everything blurred. It actually felt like, if you were to get like punched in the head, it was a horrible and surreal moment, and that was the moment where everything imploded and dissolved. If you've lived years of your life with every molecule, every cell in your body screaming, yeah this is the

one true truth give everything you have for it. And then all of a sudden I just realized that everything was a fraud. I felt the worst nausea. It's so horrible and painful in the pit of your stomach and I thought I was always going to feel that way. I thought in those first few weeks that's what it felt like to not be a Mormon. I'm like, this is horrible. And remember, my dad's a Mormon, my mom's a Mormon, everyone around me is a Mormon. It's like you're in the seven cult where four plus four equals seven, not eight, right? And so you meet other

people that believe it's seven and now you get married to another seven club member and then you have your little seven club kids and then you're like interlinking with all these other seven club people and you've got the picnics, the barbecues, you got your stories, your songs, everything that makes life worth living and imbues it with meaning. And one day, you figure out that four plus four actually equal eight, right? But if you explain that to people and show them, you get the four oranges and then you get another four oranges and you're like, count them up, you know? I don't know how this didn't occur to us before, but there's actually eight.

Wow, now I know it's eight, I can't I can't let this thing go. I can't unsee the eight oranges. I can't go back to seven. And what did you get out of it? You got eight oranges. I was already tumbling off the top of that mountain and there was no way to stop it. It was only one outcome and it was walking away. And I just stopped going to church with my then wife and my kids. Got rid of my temple garments. It's just, it's over. It's completely over.

That whole thing was two full years of me. In silence alone, not wanting to talk to anybody, because I didn't know if I was like Satan possessing me. Well, here's the other thing, even though I knew that the Mormon church was not what it claimed to be. I also knew that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, thi thi the the thi, the thi, the the thi, the thi, thi, their their their, I was just their, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, was, was, was, was, was, was, was their, was their, was their, was their, was their their their, their their, their thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toda, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, claimed to be. I also knew that knowing that had caused me just the most extraordinary pain in my stomach. And I was fearful that if I told anybody else, they would experience that same horrific agony that you couldn't get rid of. And I didn't know how long it would last. I didn't want to spread the misery. And I didn't even know what to tell my dad. So he called me one day after I'd missed church for like three weeks and he said, why haven't

been coming to church? And I said, I found some stuff out. I felt the church something like, I didn't necessarily want to get into it. And he's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I discovered that Joseph Smith didn't tell the truth about his experiences. He said, what are you talking about? And I said, well, I said, two things. I said, I'm not going to be going back, but if you want to keep going, no problem, but if you would like me to share a few things with you that I found really enlightening, I will. And he said, okay, yeah, send them all over and I'll read everything. So I got maybe five or six articles, which did a good job of summarizing almost everything that I had found.

So I send him these articles, I don't hear anything from him for a week. And then he called me back and said I read everything you sent me looks like we've been had and that was it he never went back. Now whereas I was having a profound crisis he never seemed to even think twice about it after that. It was just like, yeah, I mean it's like great, okay I'm going back to guitar, you know. It was just like, yeah, I mean, it's like, great, okay, I'm going back to guitar, you know. That was it. So, Tal, after giving his many years, his songs, his talent, and two full years on a Mormon mission, walked away. And now, so did his father. A man who for decades lived as a Mormon in the topsy-turvy world of rock and roll,

left after being shown the truth by his son. People say, well, how much of you is Mormonism and how much is you? People have asked me that many times, particularly after I walked away from Mormonism. And, you know, there were parts of me that did not feel like they had been shaped by Mormonism that were just part of who I was. I mean, maybe I would be slightly different, thwere a lot different if I had never been a Mormon. I can't say for sure, all I can say is that I feel more like me now outside of Mormonism than I ever did when I was within Mormonism, but I didn't know that I didn't feel like myself when I was within Mormonism because that's all I had ever known. I was the goldfish in water. You don't

know anything else. Today Tal lives in Victoria, British Columbia. Not on our list. Come on, Victoria. What am I doing right now? Coco my wife and I are working on a couple of different projects. One's a musical project that she would be fronting. I tour with dad. the today. th. I th. I was th. I th. I th. I was th. I th. I was the gold th. I was th. I was the gold the gold th. I was the gold the gold th. I was the gold the gold the gold the gold th. I was the gold the gold the gold th. I was the gold the gold th. I was th. I was the gold th. I was the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold the gold. I was the gold. I was the gold. I was the gold. I was the gold. I was the the th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was to to to to today. I was today today today today today today today today the. I was that that that the. I was working on a couple of different projects. One's a musical project that she would be fronting. I tour with Dad. Dad got the name BTO back, so he's touring as BTO and the resurrection of Bachman Turner Overdrive after 45 years or so. Keep on rolling down the highway, Towl. And taking care of business.

Every day. Every way. So we do that dad and I have a kind of an Americana project we have an album in the tank yep they are a duo called Bachman and Bachman and they will soon drop an album and hit the road yes Randy Bachman is 80 years old and still cranking it out kudos do you think we'll still be podcasting at the age of 80? As long as those groupies stick around. Guys, we're almost job. Leave us loud.

Oh, I'm working on a project with you. Yes. Tal and I are collaborating on a secret film project. I'd love to share it with you, but I can't. Also, Liz won't let me. At some point, I will reveal it, but only if everyone promises to watch it. He's looking at you, Salt Lake City. The film is actually pretty close to being done.

We just actually need a little bit more financing, a little bit more capital to take it home. So if anyone out there is interested in being part of a fantastic film with fantastic people, please let me know. Info at was I in a cold.com or Tyler Miesom. tho. Thank you, Tao from one ex mo to another. And a special thanks to Caroline Kessler for helping with all the archival. And of course thanks to Cocoa and Randy Bachman and Mr. Rick Krem. And thank th. And th. And th. And th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, than, th, than, than, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, thauu.au.au.au. Please thau. Please tha, tha, tha, tha, archival. And of course, thanks to Coco and Randy Bachman and Mr. Rick Krem. And thank you to Angela Sof for the lovely song. You can find her at Angela Sof music, A-N-G-E-L-A-S-O-F-E-E-E-F-E-E-E-E-S-O-E-E-E-Fe, Music. And we'll put that in the show notes. If you need to find a new religion, we can help you make a good decision. We've been kneeling to pray.

Baptizing 58 souls in a day. Yeah, we're the Book of Mormon heroes. Book of Mormon heroes. Book of Mormon Heroes. We'll take your life and drag it up from zero. Yeah, all you need is a Book of Mormon Heroes, cow. We'll be your Book of Mormon Heroes now. And we will be back next week with another great story. And then one night they're all praying and then a lightning storm happened. And they went out to Mount Diablo. They were quoting some scriptures and this other person said, Dale stand here, and their to the their theoble.

They were quoting some scriptures and this other person said, Dale stand here, Julie stand here, hold hands, even though they're married to other people. And the lightning was crashing all around and her hair flipped up and it was like a veil and they're all like you guys are joined together. You know, God's joining you together. So he literally came back to the house and told me God's joined me together. So he literally came back to the house and told me God's joined me to her. Julie now is the symbol of the bride of Christ and I am now the symbol of the whore.

Wasana Colt is written, produced, and hosted by the post Mo, Tyler Miesum. And the Nevermo, Liz Ayakuzzi. Audio editing and sound design by the Crusader, Rob Perra. Studio engineer Brett Neese. And video engineer, Gabby Rap. Thank you. Hey, Tyler, I remember when me and your dad, yeah, we used to do our bookkeeping together in the back of the yellow school bus, hey. Yeah, that never happened. Oh, I remember it well in my Uncle Jack. Yeah, he taught him how to do addition and subtraction.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, and let me guess. You had an auntie Cheryl. Oh, yes, auntie Cheryl. Who she used to have these number two pencil parties with them. Oh, man, it was epic. He should have been there. Oh, the parks of having an accountant father. life purify me Don't spare my life crucify me