Was I In A Cult? - QAnon: “Control + Alt + Delulu”

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Ashley takes us inside the twisted world of QAnon—an online cult that spread like wildfire during the pandemic, offering false hope through dangerous conspiracies to those seeking community, connection and autonomy in an unraveling world. Ashley reveals how fear tactics and manipulation lured her into a space where JFK Jr. was alive, Tom Hanks was an international trafficker, and every catastrophe was proof of an elite plot. From Instagram rabbit holes to FOIA requests about hot dogs at the White House, Ashley unpacks the absurdity and real danger behind QAnon’s grip. This is not just a story of strange beliefs—it’s a story of control, trauma, and ultimately, resilience. Join us as Ashley explains how she reclaimed her mind, her sanity, and her life—one hard truth at a time. ____ Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail]  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys): https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult   Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com 

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network or any of their respective affiliates. There was this dark energy this whole time that was constantly reminding us, no, you need to be paranoid. Don't trust anyone. So for, I would say at least a year, hyper paranoid. And she's breaking you down on levels

that I didn't even realize until like, it had become normal to me to not trust anyone. ["Wazayn Akult"] Welcome to Wazayn Akult, I'm Liz Iacuzzi. And I'm Tyler Reesom. Look, if you don't know already, Was I in a Cult is a podcast, obviously you're listening to it, that features individuals who are in and out of cults retelling their story. And we do it with some levity because, well, cults are really ridiculous, guys. I mean,

let's be real. They're funny. They can be funny. And today's episode dives into one of the most notorious and perhaps dangerous modern-day cults ever. A movement that uses the internet to recruit, spread conspiracy, and promises its followers the, quote, real truth. And we're not talking about Facebook, circa 2016. We're talking about QAnon.

Yes, everyone has all heard of QAnon, but today's guest Ashley takes us deeper through the how, the why, and the what of QAnon. Like many, the pandemic was the catalyst of her descent into this totally bizarre world. This is a cult that spread like wildfire across the globe, pulling in people from all walks of life. Now many ask, how does someone go from simply questioning their local government to believing that lizard people are secretly controlling the White House? Or that a secret Kabalov pizza shop owners are running a global child trafficking ring?

Or that the moon landing was staged by the elites to hide alien alliances? Or that JFK Jr. is still alive and plotting a triumphant return to overthrow the deep state. Or that Hollywood elites harvest adrenochrome from children to stay youthful. Give me that one. I want that one actually. Give me that baby youth juice. So guys, I had a lovely long interview with Ashley and her bravery in speaking out is

something I want to highlight because since she's left, her former cult leader has sent her terrifying threats that would make most people retreat in silence. Yet she continues to share her story. So without further ado or any more bad jokes, although they probably will be bad jokes, grab your snacks, let's give Ashley the floor as we dive headfirst down the proverbial rabbit hole. No tin foil hat required. So my name is Ashley. I am 41 years old. I have been in multiple cults in my life and then recently found myself in a political online cult.

Growing up, my parents had me very young. They were 18. They found religion pretty early on, and I think it's because they wanted to create a safe, happy, healthy family environment for me and them. So we were in multiple churches. And there was periods of time where I wasn't allowed to have cabbage patch dolls because the church told my parents they had demons in them. And then there was periods of time where I couldn't watch like my little pony because there was

sorcery and then I couldn't go trick or treating. And there was some really dark culty stuff that was happening in that church basically like no adults were ever or anyone was allowed to date. You're not allowed to be alone with a girl that you're dating. There was a lot of weird things happening. Sorry guys, we didn't have a lot of time to dive into this cult in this episode, but. And I remember just believing everything the pastor said.

I was the standout kid. I was voted most Christ-like. But I remember feeling so guilty all the time and feeling like the only time I was clean was after Sunday morning when I was crying at the altar begging God to forgive me. Like it was this message coming down was you're not good enough, that God is always holding a carrot just out of your reach. And I remember just feeling this insane weight of guilt.

Okay, we're going to do a quick cult checklist here. So we're all on the same page. Never good enough. Check. Weird dating rules. Check. Guilt. Guilt, guilt.

Check, check, check. And the forever dangling carrot. Check, which is basically the cult version of being ghosted. You're almost there, but nope, you're left on red for eternity. Bunch of assholes. So this culty culty church was just the beginning of Ashley's run in with cult-like groups. But the one thing all cults have in common, control. And when Ashley had had enough, she snapped.

And at some point, that pressure got to me and I started to rebel. I went hard in the other direction in every way you can possibly imagine. And I moved out at 17. I went hard in the other direction in every way you can possibly imagine. And I moved out at 17. I moved around the country with my boyfriend and I was such a mess that my mom suggested I go to this place in Los Angeles called the Dream Center. And I was there for what was supposed to be a rehab program for a year. The Dream Center, what could be wrong with a name like that?

It wasn't a rehab program. There was no help with addiction stuff. There was no therapy, no counseling, no nothing. We were put in these black t-shirts. We were essentially the janitors for this mega church where the pastor was a multimillionaire. Multiple millionaires were going to this church, and we were the cleaning crew. And they would occasionally put us in a nice black polo and bring us up on the stage to

flaunt us and have us share a testimony and tell their congregation how the Dream Center had changed our lives so they could make money off of us. It was horrible. I spent a lot of time in trouble for little things like leaving my fan on or talking back to my leaders. I was in isolation a lot. They would make you dig a hole and then fill it up. They would make you scrub the stairwell with toothbrush, just things like this. I didn't make any choices for a year. I got out of the program after a year I graduated and I remember getting out and my parents were there and we went to the grocery store and I went to pick out gum and started crying.

I was just like, I don't know how to make life choices. And no, we didn't have a lot of time to go into depth of this cult either. But we did add a few more to our cult checklist. Control. Check. Pre-labor. Check. Taking away your ability to make the smallest decision so when you get out, you're totally

lost. Check, please is what I want to say to all these cults. So anyway, I stay and volunteer and I start doing homeless outreach, youth outreach. I was preyed upon for a very long time by my sponsor's son who was making advances towards me. I wasn't allowed to sleep with anyone during that year. Eventually we ended up hooking up. People found out. My punishment was I was sent back to sleep with anyone during that year. Eventually, we ended up hooking up. People found out. My punishment was I was sent back to rehab for another year. And then three weeks later, I was in the church

on my face crying in front of the altar. And I look up and I see the man that I had slept with singing on stage. And I snapped out of my spell. I stood up, I walked out, I called my parents, I got a plane ticket and I went home. So that's cult number two. And now for what you all have been waiting for, the reason you bought your front row tickets, the openers are finally done and you're ready for the main...

They get it, Liz. They got it. You're being a bit over dramatic. I was in my early 20s. I am a secretary. I'm just Liz. They got it. You're being a bit overdramatic. I was in my early twenties. I am a secretary. I'm just lonely. I'm bored. I'm living with my mom, my grandmother, and my great-grandmother in the country. I reconnected with an old acquaintance on MySpace.

We start flirting. He tells me about this place in Nashville called Global Outreach Developments International, AKA God Inc. And they want to eventually train everyone, immerse them in the cultures of third world countries so that eventually you will go live in that country and help them with irrigation stuff, with childbirth, with whatever. It wasn't super missionary in the religious sense, even though they were Christian.

So I go to their volunteer week and it was incredible. And I felt a sense of purpose. So I ended up moving there. It turned out to be a cult. Oh, wait, shit. Sorry. I forgot there was one more opening act. Main event is coming soon though, guys. Everything was going well in the Nashville cult until I started questioning things, of course. And then I was immediately demonized and told that I was going to poison the group. So shortly after leaving that was when I was done with religion from my early twenties all the way up until what was the pandemic.

I had lived a cult free, religion free, beautiful existence and did not really have any issues on any of those fronts. She was once and for all, finally free. Eventually Ashley moves to California to start a new life. I found a job covering the whole Central Valley for Stella Rosa and it was just major chain stores and I had never done sales before and I found out I was just major chain stores. And I had never done sales before and I found out I was really good at it. And everything's going great.

That is until the infamous March of 2020 rolled around. So yes, 2020 hits and my job was essential because alcohol was very much needed during the pandemic. Alcohol sales were up 250% during that time because all the bars are closed. Everyone's buying from the grocery stores. So I was bringing in pallets and pallets of wine and it was really good for me financially.

It was just really difficult on me mentally. Six feet apart, Tyler, don't sneeze, don't touch your face. Wash your hands for 20 seconds. Boarding toilet paper. Sanitizing groceries. Where the fuck is my hand sanitizer? Working out with soup cans. See you next Christmas, Mom. Bedazzled masks. Wiping down the mail. Obsessively tracking case numbers. Don't fucking cough on me. Did you just fucking cough on me?

And lest we forget, the one-way aisles in grocery stores. In all these stores, I'm watching the tape go down. I'm watching the dots put on the floor, I'm watching the requirements and the restrictions. And for me, who, even though I was a lifelong liberal, very, like I love freedom, I don't like the feeling of being restricted, I'm kind of claustrophobic in general. And so for me, it was bringing back these trauma responses.

And I didn't know how to process any of it. So I would go to work, I would go to my car in between stores and cry. And I would come home and drink and cry and go back to work. And I didn't expect to be affected the way that I was. So I was ripe for something. This episode is brought to you by NoCD. Let's face it, hearing about the dark side of human nature can leave us feeling a little unsettled. But there's a type of discomfort that goes beyond being unsettled. It happens when you get hit with a disturbing, violent, or taboo thought out of nowhere and it makes you question everything about yourself, even

though you didn't want to think about it in the first place. And here's the thing about those unwanted thoughts. They're a lot more common than you think. In fact, almost everyone has them, but for people with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or OCD, they tend to feel sticky and cause a lot of distress. OCD latches onto these thoughts and can make you feel like a monster, even though it isn't true. But that's what makes OCD so debilitating. The thoughts and fears can feel so real that seeking help can seem like a huge risk.

So instead, people get caught in a cycle of seeking relief through certain mental or physical actions even though they never seem to help in the long run. But you know what does help when you're struggling with OCD? Specialized therapy. And that's why I want to tell you all about NoCD. NoCD is a virtual therapy provider for OCD with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD so they understand intrusive thoughts. Every NoCD therapist is trained in exposure and response prevention, or ERP.

It's a type of therapy that was specifically designed for OCD and is considered the gold standard treatment. NoCD also accepts major insurance plans and offers always-on support between sessions, so you're never alone. To learn more about therapy with NoCD, go to no NoCD.com and schedule a free 15 minute call with their team.

That's NoCD.com to learn more and book a free 15 minute call. You know, every Sunday, me and my family like to go for a nice hike in the mountains. We get some nature, we get some fresh air. And you get sweaty and stinky. Sweaty, perhaps. Stinky, no, because I use Lume Whole Body Deodorant. One of your smarter decisions, Tyler.

It keeps me smelling fresh all day, everywhere from my underarms to my feet to my perineum. Such a nice word, but not necessarily a nice place. And Lume is clinically proven to control odor for a whopping 72 hours. In fact, it was created by an OBGYN who saw first-hand how normal BO was being misdiagnosed and mistreated in women. Shocker, right? It's baking soda-free, paraben-free, and pH-balanced for safe use below the belt. For not just one neom, but a paraneom.

Nice. So, choose from a variety of fresh, bright scents like clean tangerine, lavender sage, or toasted coconut. Lavender sage, lavender sage, lavender sage. That's my favorite. Lume's Starter Pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, and free shipping. And a special offer for our listeners. New customers get a whopping 15% off all Lume products with our exclusive code. And if you combine the 15% off with the already discounted starter pack, that equals over 40% off their starter pack. Use code INACULT for 15% off your first purchase at lumedeuterant.com.

That's code INACULT at L-U-M-E-D-E-O-D-O-R-A-N-T dot com. Now take a hike. I was just going to tell you that. I was never political, so I wasn't a person who paid attention. I never voted in my life for anyone. I just considered myself a liberal, more on the democratic side. I listened to NPR. And then I started tuning into the daily COVID press briefings.

I genuinely wanted to know what was going on. And then my concerns started to turn towards the lockdowns and towards the mandates. And that's what scared me more than the virus at this point. When you're on lockdown with nothing but a Wi-Fi connection and some very real frustration, the internet becomes a breeding ground for, well, everything and anything. Conspiracy theories, mistrust, and apparently body doubles. And we'll get to that part soon. I want a body double, Tyler.

I just want one to do my life so I can just take a nap. And I saw people that were saying the government's going too far in some instances, and that was attractive to me. And so that's what kind of got me started in the direction of paying attention more to conservatives. But next thing you know, I am seeing accounts everywhere speaking out about this, and it got pretty wild eventually.

The joy of my job was completely gone, and finally I just had had enough and I ended up quitting my job. I didn't have a plan at the time, but luckily for myself, I had made an incredible amount of money and bonuses. So I had enough to not stress for a while. So I just quit entirely and then focused on trying to fight the things going on. That's when I started to kind of spiral out. Then I ended up on Instagram, I ended up finding all of these groups. All of a sudden there's people I had never heard of talking about being

anti-mandate, anti-lockdown, but then I come out as a political person all of a sudden and start being very vocal and my Instagram was nothing but flowers and puppies and you know, just the beauty in life, things that I liked to share. And then all of a sudden I take this hard turn. I lost a lot of friends initially and then I started to gain a ton of followers. But as I'm gaining all these followers, are reaching out to me like come join this group So I found myself in these Instagram groups

Where it was like nothing I had ever seen before it was this super eclectic group of Christians But then there was like new agey people who were into like crystals and all of a sudden you got the QAnon stuff. It was all in the same area. And now for what everyone has all been waiting for, it has finally arrived. We are here at the main event. QAnon! Over dramatic.

You're overselling. QAnon! Trying too hard. And I didn't know anything about QAnon! Trying too hard. And I didn't know anything about QAnon at that point, and I'm seeing all this mixed up, and to me, it looked like this shiny, bright, hopeful thing where everyone's different, yet together on this one thing, freedom.

And I was like, I loved it. It felt to me like very hippie, very free. And I feel like at this point point I went down the rabbit hole. Okay, here's the thing. This is how QAnon really pulls people in. It's a mix of fear, hope, and secret knowledge. You start with one idea, like maybe the government is overreaching, and then before you know it, you're reading posts about global elites hiding in underground bunkers with reptile overlords.

It's the Gateway Conspiracy Theory. And for those who don't know how this lovely group got its name... Well, Q is QClearance, so it's referring to a person or individuals with QClearance. And then Anon is just the anonymous people who follow it and share the information. So technically there's no QAnon. QClearance gives the impression that the people doing the posts have QClearance. The Q post I was slightly attracted to because I'm like, this sounds really smart. And the Q stuff was in there and I'm starting to see all of these predictions.

Like one of the first posts about Hillary Clinton will be arrested on this day. Like they would tell you that people are going to Gitmo already. They would tell you that a lot of these politicians are already dead and the people you see on TV are their body doubles. And the beauty of it all, like all cults, when the predictions don't come true, there's always a completely bullshit reason as to why. completely bullshit reason as to why. They're giving you this backstory that basically ties in with the Q stuff, even though it's just vague enough. And then when they're wrong, they say things like disinformation is necessary. So there's a backup for every time they lie or whatever to where you're like, oh, that

wasn't meant for us. That was meant to throw off the enemy. And it's essentially a choose your own adventure to keep you online, to keep you living in the future or in the past and not in your life, not in your reality, not trusting your own eyes and it's just confusing everyone. But it got to the point where even at that time I was like, okay, you guys are a little weird. You keep saying things that aren't coming true. And then I find Tori, but she starts to say things that sound more rational to me.

All right. For those who always wondered about the leader of Q, well, let's just say this. We don't fucking get it either. And we have no real idea who the main person behind Q is. No one does. But there are a bunch of mini leaders within the movement who are very public. And Ashley's, well, it was a woman named Tori. Because I had never paid attention to politics at all. She sounded so informed and so professional.

Her message was, it won't get fixed unless we fix it. And I felt drawn to her message because it felt realistic to me. And she also pushed the idea that we want to be peaceful and never violent. And I was attracted to that as well. One of her coined messages that got me was that we were going to change things with the power of the pen. She kind of sold you on, we will be writing letters to our representatives. And to me, I was like, I love that. I'm ready to get down, do the work, I have the time, I wanna actually do something. So I'm listening to her for three plus hours a day.

Everything she was saying in the beginning was just very hopeful. It was like just feeling extremely powerful and having a sense of community. She had a way of getting you to feel up when everything felt down. So it was this whole like from the bottom up, rise against power, like we can do this. And that's the hook. It's not just about the information, it's about how they make you

feel. Cult leaders are pros at building you up and making you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself. And when the world feels chaotic, having that sense of control, even if it's just the illusion of it, can be intoxicating. It's the superhero fantasy. We're rising up or saving the world! I don't know why my superhero is from the south. We're rising up. We're saving the world. That's who I'm calling when shit goes wrong.

Give me your best superhero voice, Tyler. We're rising up. we're saving the world! Okay, I can give you one of that. We're rising up, we're saving the world! A superhero musical. What are you, a musical? That's not a superhero. That's like a Gilbert and Sullivan.

We're rising up, we're saving the world! That is like someone announcing a sale at Kmart. We're rising up! Why can't I do a super? She had these messages that were so inspiring at a time that I felt helpless and hopeless. And then the power of the pen. And next thing you're writing 50 letters and putting stamps on them and you feel like a rock star. I'm like, I'm changing things.

I am saving the world. And she's constantly filling you with how much you're making an impact. We were the only ones that were fixing this. And so you felt a sense of pride, excitement, and then amplify it by the fact that we can't go engage in real life. You know, we're not getting together.

You don't have the juxtaposition of real life versus online. So Tori, who spells her name T-O-R-E, which actually spells Tor, but I don't know if anybody wants to tell her that. Yeah, Tori is actually Terpsiformaris, and her backstory is quite a grab bag of bullshit. So Tori, she has changed her story so many times. She claims to have worn disguises as men and different individuals all over the country, all over the world. She prides herself on coordinating chaos. She claims that she's a whistleblower who used to rig elections in like over 40 nations.

She claims to be a time traveler. Let's see, she once claimed to be a medical doctor. She claims to be a person who doesn't exist, whatever that means. There's a certain segment of her community cult that believes she is an actual archangel here in physical form. She claimed that when she started this podcast, she had just moved from North Dakota, where she left after getting losing a suit basically where she was running a fake scam charity for veterans where they never got the money. May I? Oh, please do. where she was running a fake scam charity for veterans where they never got the money.

May I? Oh, please do. OK. So in 2018, a North Dakota judge ordered Morris Torrey to pay $25,000 after she collected money to fund homeless shelters and wreaths for veterans' graves, but used the money instead to make purchases for herself at McDonald's, QVC, and elsewhere. The judge also found that Maras had raised the funds while, quote, misrepresenting education and experience that she did not possess. Big Mac and hands-free mops. I mean, what else does QVC sell? Porcelain-ain cube figurines.

The joy of music featuring Esteban guitars. I mean, come on, priorities, guys. So she got in trouble for that. And she claims that when she left, she had only the contents of her car. And she was broke. Fast forward four years later, an $816,000 house on multiple acres, actually two homes. At the time, she was doing a three to four hour show, Monday through Friday.

Occasionally she would stream on Saturday, and then she was doing like Sunday night movie nights on Twitch. So everyone would just hang out and watch a movie together. It became a quick addiction. Like my whole day focused around when Tori was gonna be on. If she was on, I dropped everything. If I'm at the grocery store, I need to get my earbuds in right away because I might miss something and you're just attached to your phone.

I guess if I could describe Tori's doctrine, she's selling Saving America through a grab bag of random things that are subject to change at any given moment. And then when you enter into this world, you start to hear some crazy stuff, like JFK Jr. is still alive. And then they'll show a photo that'll go viral of some random guy at a Trump rally, and they're like, that dude is JFK Jr. You spiral out in your mind and just start going along with these things. And I'm not really sure.

It's just like, I think it has to be that boiling process where the water is just slowly getting hotter. And next thing you know, you're believing everything. Okay, so just so you know, this whole analogy about putting frogs in water and then turning up the heat and the frog doesn't notice until it's boiled is nonsense. Frogs, like all animals, have a sense of temperature and a frog will try to escape from the water before it gets too hot.

I don't know where this all came from. It's nonsense. Especially boy frogs. They really notice first. No, women. They'll think 70 degrees is 50. I was talking about a frog's penis. I just was really trying to get a frog dick joke in there. Regardless, she was fed these pieces of red meat like JFK Jr. coming back. Yeah, and you'd think if JFK Jr. were actually coming back to live, he'd have much more important things to do. Right, like binge watch Breaking Bad, or learn the whip in Nae Nae or download music for free from a Russian site.

Nope. Instead, he's just going to go to Trump rallies and get a tan. And somehow that's the least of the wild things Tori's followers believe. But hey, once you're down the rabbit hole, there's no turning back. So Tori thrives off of future predictions, false hope. I call it the roller coaster from hell where you're excited riding high on false hope and then you're crashing down with some scary thing that's looming in your future. A few that I wrote down, a few things that she has said that have not come true.

She claimed at one point Joe Biden would never be president. She said there would be perp walks in 2021 that we're gonna see all these government officials arrested. That's obviously never happened. Trump was supposed to be inaugurated in March of 2021. Christmas Eve 2020, Trump would end the Federal Reserve and bring back gold currency. That Gavin Newsom was gonna be our actual president

during this term, which hasn't happened. She said there would be special elections in 2022. She said there'd be no elections in 2022. None of that happened. Wait, let's see, oh, this one was fun. Project Blue Beam would be launched. So it's a conspiracy theory about a massive holographic alien simulation that would be like forecast or cast over the whole world or a huge area of the sky that

would make us believe we're getting invaded by aliens but it's actually the government using it for another reason but look it up and then when nothing happened she posts a video and what it looks like is like a glow stick attached to a fishing wire hanging over a pond. And she's like, see, I told you. Which I think it's really dark. She predicts a lot of people's deaths. She predicts when Trump will die multiple times.

She says that he's gonna get in office in two years and do his term, he'll die. If you look at her page, it is nothing just but nefarious, scary stuff. She literally will highlight every weather thing that's happened, every earthquake, every fires, like all the catastrophes of the world and trying to make you believe that there's something in common. Like she's just making you look at the worst parts of the world to keep you in a state of constant fear.

Yet another classic cult tactic. And that keeps people clung to her for constant hope because she's always divvying out a little bit of hope and it's always going to happen some other time. You know what I mean? It's just constantly moving the goalpost and then people over time have become this cult of amnesia because they don't remember all the time she was wrong before because they're too far in it they can't see the forest through the trees so where they took it and where they took me was in such a wild direction and I believe that was the intention. It is the intention to keep you in confusion, flood you with fear, overwhelm you with the

what-ifs, and constantly shift the narrative so you're always off balance and never have enough clarity to question anything. When you're disoriented, it's easier to keep control over you. It's like when you're spinning in circles, you can't see straight, right? Well, that's what cult leaders do to your mind. Fucking cults. We'll be right back. One of my favorite quotes comes from Albert Einstein who said,

Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe. But there are a great amount of really smart people out there with engaging stories and wonderful insight. And listening to them can make your life better. And that is why we listen to the Silver Linings Handbook Podcast, where host Jason Blair sits down with interesting people from all walks of life who share their knowledge with you. Jason is a former journalist who worked at the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the

Washington Post, and many other newspapers. What makes the Silver Linings Handbook Podcast different is that it is truly not scripted and Jason uses the same natural curiosity you would have sitting in the living room or around a campfire with a new and exciting person you had just met. I actually listened to one about a former FBI profiler who discusses the challenges of being an FBI profiler, her motivations to catch the bad guy, and the need for mental health assessments in law enforcement. And several episodes explore the impact of religious trauma on people.

So expand your universe with the Silver Linings Handbook. Subscribe to the Silver Linings Handbook podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I would like to rescind my previous statement that the internet is solely a fad and will not last long. Yeah, it is difficult to predict what will hit and what won't. And with that in mind, it seems like today everyone needs a website. Yeah, and the best way to build and maintain a website is with Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one

website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create beautiful websites, engage with your audience, and sell anything from products to content to time all in one place and all on your terms. And we actually built our Was I in a Cult site on Squarespace. We did and designing our site was super easy with Squarespace's Design Intelligent feature that uses cutting-edge AI technology to unlock your strongest creative potential. And you can manage your payments all in one place, you can link your social media accounts, and you can sell content.

And in our case put up some really weird pictures of us in robes I do look good in a cult robe Yeah, you do head to Squarespace comm for a free trial and when you're ready to launch you Squarespace comm slash in a cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain Again in case you weren't listening to Liz, that's squarespace.com slash in a cult. So like all cults, whether they're in person or online, financial manipulation usually plays a role. She has raised hundreds and hundreds of thousand dollars, like in the last couple of years.

I don't even know how much because she hides as much as possible. I believe all of her charities are fraudulent because she is saying they are for one thing, and she's never told them the extent of where she spends the money. She has not provided receipts. She calls her community her employer and says that she works for them,

and has said that all of the money that they give her goes towards helping the cause or the country. She wanted us to advertise things so we raised $4,000 for a billboard. We raised the money, it went missing, never came back. We were given a bunch of stories of where it went, a bunch of excuses and then I find out later that multiple states had money go missing but then she shows up at the RNC and at least $2,000 of Gucci jewelry. They bought her a Tesla a couple years ago. I actually donated to that fund because she told us that her car was stolen. I

find out just this last year that it was impounded that she had owed back taxes or something. We raised over $100,000 in less than a week for that car. At one point she had a keep Tori streaming, go find me with the goal of a million dollars just to keep her streaming. And there's more, there's so many more. She's posting on her Telegram and you don't wanna miss a post.

So she posts morning till night, all day. So Telegram is, it's a non-censored platform. It's just like an interactive place where anyone can set up multiple rooms. You can connect rooms to other rooms. It's basically this interweb. It really got taken over in my opinion by the whole Patriot movement, the QAnon people, because you were getting censored on Instagram. And she had, there's her main channel in chat, and then she has 50 staterooms

that you can go find your state and enter that room. So little doors into like a whole new world. It kind of feels like a spider web. And the staterooms range from three people to like seven, 800 people. I think Texas is one of the larger ones. And then I'm in the California state group, which had like, I feel, four to 600 members at the time.

Like I remember when I first entered the room, it felt like a stuffy room. Even though it was just an online space, I had a very real feeling of wanting to open windows and air it out. At least in my stateroom, it was focused on action. So every state has a different set of rules depending on how they go about it. Ours was pretty authoritarian. It was like, you're not allowed to talk too much small talk.

It has to be related on task. So Ashley became a frequent visitor and contributor to the room. And after a while, she found herself rising the proverbial ranks right up until she ended up becoming an admin in that group. So not only am I listening to her, I'm volunteering, among other admins, to kind of get her CTAs, her calls to actions,

to the room, to break them down, to create organizational spaces for people. I'm on the phone with people helping them with what they're working on. At one point, we're calling all the sheriffs, we're calling all the DAs, we're calling all of our election officials in our local counties. And I'm literally mourning till night. This is my whole life. And there was a lot of action going on.

So we would like file FOIA requests to get information on things, which is basically a Freedom of Information Act. And then we would file random GAO complaints. It's the Government Accountability Agency. And basically, this agency is there for people to make complaints about a government official. They, on average, per year get 1,200 complaints. And then we would flood with thousands of us and spam our copy-paste bullshit complaint. And then the system would get shut down. And then she would brag about it.

And of course, mistrust of the outside world is something almost always echoed in cults. There was all this beauty happening, but then there was this dark energy this whole time. It was constantly reminding us, no, you need to be paranoid. Don't trust anyone. And then she would echo it. She's watching our room. She would see arguments take place and then she would echo about we can't trust people

in our rooms. So for, I would say at least a year, hyper paranoid and she's breaking you down on levels that I didn't even realize it was paranoia. I didn't it had become normal to me. As this is going on, she's promoting people. And then she's she's turning on people that have been very loyal to her. And then she brings them back in the fold and then she turns on them again. And there's this weird power struggle going on between her and the other conservative influencers. And then we're like spending our time arguing with influencers on other sites because they're going

after our leader. And it became solely focused about her. It started to become really convoluted and confusing at that time. So I'm watching her ego get really out of control, which wasn't that way in the beginning. And then I'm also seeing this coordinated effort, at least in my state, to basically keep everyone spinning in circles. We were getting nowhere. And ironically, the scariest part is when you don't even realize you're living in a constant state of fear because it's become so normalized. And it's all you focus on all the time. And that's exactly how cults work. They break you down so gradually that you don't even notice until it's too late. You know it's like this analogy. Have you heard of the frog

boiling in water? You know if you put a frog in lukewarm water and then it starts to boil, it won't notice. The frog won't actually, yeah, it won't jump out. Did you know that about frogs? That's true. It is absolutely 100% true. Don't let anyone tell you differently. It's a great analogy. She was taking us in her direction. So it was fighting her battles in Ohio with people she didn't like.

Records requests, basically. You can request certain open records. And so she loves having people do foyers. It's basically a way to make them feel like they're doing something and never doing anything because these things take weeks and months if you get a response. Anyway, they were foying things like how many hot dogs at the White House. You know what I mean? Oh, right.

We forgot about the maniacal hot dog conspiracy. That one was a good one. Yes, hot dogs at the White House had to do with child trafficking, right? Pizza and hot dogs. I mean, it sounds like whoever came up with these conspiracies were just really fucking hungry, you know what I mean? P.S. just so everyone knows, Americans eat more than 20 billion hot dogs a year. Speaking of hot dogs.

Tyler, slipping in facts without you even looking. At least he's just slipping in facts, year. Speaking of hot dogs. Tyler, slippin' in facts without you even lookin'. At least he's just slippin' in facts, guys. Just facts over here. And not hot dogs. And not other forms of dogs either. They're eating the dogs! So after realizing that all the things that she had us doing was absolute ludicrous,

had us spinning our tails, and my most difficult thing during this whole process is having actual issues with certain parts of the way governments ran, the way they affected our lives. But then looking at our supposed heroes and the people there to help us, every single one of them is a joke. Every single one of them. Like you got Rudy Giuliani with like, he's supposedly like speaking out for things and he's got hair dye running down his face. You have Sidney Powell acting completely ridiculous. They take these extreme views and then start to make everything amplified times a million.

So now we look stupid, we look ridiculous, because we're all in a big cult, which just further drives the fact that no one should listen to us and it's division, more division. We were getting nowhere. It was just getting really bad. And finally, she puts out this directive. She's supposed to be about free speech and everything. She wanted us to ban like hundreds of people from all over the country. And some of the people that were going to have to be banned were my friends, like people

I knew and met. And I'm like, just because, you know, like just arbitrary bullshit. So I say, no, I'm not going to do it. The other admins are going to do it. Me and another girl, we're not banning anyone, even if she tells us to, because that's wrong. It's not about her, right? This is ours, which she always told us. And I was like, at that point, I was just so exhausted by fighting this for so long, thinking that she was

trying to teach us a lesson to stand against Terran to be strong. And then she proves to me that she didn't mean anything that she said. And that was for some reason my wake up call moment. I don't know why. Like, there was a million things I should have seen before that. I just, I don't know. It was my breaking point. And I left.

that. I just, I don't know, it was my breaking point and I left. It's wild how sometimes it's a seemingly small moment, like banning your friends, that snaps everything into focus. You realize the whole thing was never about standing up for anything real. Yeah, Ashley thought she was fighting tyranny, but turns out she was just serving another dictator in disguise. Oh, the irony. Then isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

No, I don't think. It's like a frog! Burning in a boiling pot, and he doesn't know how to jump out. Doesn't happen. I don't know how to jump out if the fact that Tyler says every week that nobody wants to hear And it isn't ironic. That's not irony. It's not irony. None of that is irony. We'll be right back, guys. We're gonna go. We're actually not coming back. No, we'll be right back. For years, Tim Ballard has been championed

as a modern day superhero. The first time I saw one of the kids from the video and it like changed my life. He was the face of Operation Underground Railroad, a movement that inspired hope around the world by rescuing children from human traffickers. However, Ballard's crusade to save innocent lives has always hidden a darker secret.

Well, I think he's a pathological liar. Beneath the accolades and the applause, a dark storm has been brewing. I mean, I can't find a time that he's told the truth about anything. Shocking allegations of sexual misconduct have surfaced, casting a shadow over his once unquestioned reputation. I am host Sarah James McLaughlin, and in this new season of The Opportunist, we explore

the rise and the fall of Tim Ballard. Join us this October for Tim Ballard Unmasking a Hero. Subscribe to a new season of The Opportunist Now, wherever you get your podcasts. And so now Ashley has finally left the cult of Q, but as we all know, leaving a cult is always a challenge. At first, it was devastating.

This was my whole life. It's like when you're moving a million miles a minute for like the better part of two years and then all of a sudden everything stops and it becomes still and silent. I felt like my whole world and all of a sudden just crashed down because this person that I trusted was a liar and I didn't even know the extent of how much she was a liar, but I knew that she was full of shit. And I drew myself a bath and I called my mom crying and I'm like, I don't know what to do now. This is everything. And she told me, you played her at her own game and won. And that really broke me free because I literally verbatim followed

blockstep everything this woman ever said. And then when I called her bluff on something, she showed me her cards. And then started the long process. The long process of recovery. It's heartbreaking. You can feel the weight of that realization. The moment you know someone you believed in is a fraud.

Everything you've been fighting for comes crashing down. And it's not just losing faith in that person, it's losing the life you built around them. The structure, the community, it all vanishes. The first thing that I realized was I had no idea how to think for myself. I remember seeing something happen in the news that week and my response just like going to a cigarette was like go to her, see what she says about it before I form an opinion.

I was like, oh, this is how I've been thinking this whole time. Because I was terrified of thinking for myself because what if I'm wrong? And it's crazy. I was extremely like mentally atrophied. There was a while where I was really driven by rage towards this woman. I'm going to share my experience and I'm going to put it out there because at this point I had told people about her for so long. I had gotten people to listen to her. I had brought people to her

community and I felt really responsible for that. I started sharing my story in a very meek sweet way. So at this time I was the only person that I knew of that was speaking out. And she thought to herself, I'm just gonna move on, I'm gonna talk about this for the week and then I'm living my life again. Then I get a flood of people reaching out to me basically telling me their stories, their heartbreak. This is what it was in my state. Same exact thing, and we start to realize it was a very coordinated effort with a very structured pyramid type of environment. But the real meat and potatoes about this cult,

specifically, that makes it weird is you can't tangibly say there was physical abuse. You can't tangibly say they deprived me of sleep because I chose to volunteer my time, and I'm not even in their physical abuse. You can't tangibly say they deprive me of sleep because I chose to volunteer my time and I'm not even in their physical presence. I can't say that they deprive me of food. The substance of these online cults is the mental damage that it does in the paranoia. Like that really is what it is. And that's the insidious thing about all these online cults. There's no obvious physical abuse, no prison walls, but the mental damage, the fear, the isolation, it's all just as powerful.

I mean, she's put out so many, like, insane things that we believed over the years. She kept saying in 2022, they're blocking you down again. There's going to be no elections. They're coming for your kids. The blue helmets from Canada are going to come down. These are just some of the hundreds and hundreds of horrible things she said. I had a friend like move to the woods because she trusted this person. I have another friend just on the psychological level who gave up years of sobriety after

finding her because she's being told to stockpile everything. They're coming after your children. You know, all this fear inducing stuff. There's just, there's so many people that made life altering decisions because of the fear that she pushes. So that's why I'm passionate. That's why I do this. And all this from one voice on the internet just goes to show how powerful fear can be when it's amplified by someone you think

is trustworthy. It's not about any one specific thing. It's about the way that all of these influencers around this QAnon thing have captured people's minds, hearts, fears, and played around with them in order to give themselves status, power, money, whatever. And it's absolutely disgusting because it is removing so many people from actual reality. We had a little group called Misfits. There was a lot of us just expressing anger, expressing heartbreak. We would cry. We would mourn the loss of the years. We would process

the decisions we made in that timeframe. And I watch everyone who leaves go through it for a while. And then I see them like break free with it. Like they don't give a shit anymore. And that's beautiful. And of course, with Ashley being so vocal and reaching so many people, you didn't think old fundraising friend of the North Dakota and veterans Tori was just going to sit by idly and watch, did you? Um, she shared it to her 50,000 member group. The very next day I was visited, someone drove to my house and I'm pretty far in

the country, so I had to chase someone off my property who was recording my gait. I believe that this person was there to get a view of the landscape. This is the stuff that I think she does not just to intimidate me at this point. She knows that's impossible, but to scare her followers and intimidate them. She doesn't do it as much anymore because I think she started to realize the more she talked about me on her shows and brought me up, the more people would come to my page and then realize the truth. There was a while when I, even after leaving, I was obsessed.

I was like, I gotta get her, I gotta expose her. I mean, I'll still be on her ass for sure. I will be the thorn in her side forever. But I'm really losing interest in it's beautiful. I feel like after I do this podcast, I'm going to have a release and I can really just let go because I'm tired of carrying it. I'm tired of talking about it. But yeah, I'll definitely be around to laugh as her predictions continue to fail or whatever. And if she ever gets busted for like tax fraud or whatever, I'll be right there celebrating it. And I allowed myself to go through those grieving

processes. I allowed myself to be enraged. I allowed myself to mourn. I learned how to laugh at it. And that's when everything started to change. That's when the healing really came back, when I could finally laugh, when I could look at her and mock her. When I realized look at her and mock her,

when I realized she wasn't this powerful thing, she was actually this small, ridiculous thing that I gave power. And that was a huge shift for me, perspective shift. My Instagram, I scrubbed and I went through and took down everything since 2020, not because I'm ashamed or it's not a part of my journey, but because I was tired of looking at it. And I started changing the content I look on.

And now I'm grateful to say that I'm out of that weird echo chamber algorithm loop. I see a lot of cooking, a lot of art, a lot of music, a lot of puppies, and I am so happy with it. Oh, back to the puppies. Thank God we all miss those puppies. When I go back into my life, which I'm so grateful, I've gone back into the workforce, I have started making so many friends in my city,

I feel like I'm coming back into myself. I'm telling you, the healing takes a long time, but every day it's better. That said, I don't ever let my guard down on my own ability to fall for it again. I think it's empowering to acknowledge that there's a lot of things trying to influence you in directions in life, and I have to question myself a lot.

And I feel like every week since I've left, I learned something that I didn't see the week prior. So I just think it's a lifelong process. And that is a key takeaway, that healing is a lifelong process. And another takeaway is how easy it can be to get pulled into something that seems to be giving you purpose, but ultimately just takes and takes and takes. Whether it's a traditional cult or a modern online influencer driven movement,

the tactics are often the same, fear, control and isolation. And breaking free isn't just about leaving physically, it's about untangling your mind from the grip of that influence. The healing takes time, but as Ashley showed us, every day can be a little better, a little brighter. Yeah, and remember, if you ever start to feel like someone or something has all the answers

and you don't, well, that's a good time to step back and ask some questions of your own. Thank you, Ashley, for sharing your incredible journey with us and for shining a light on the dangers of online cult-like communities that are unfortunately becoming all too common. And while Ashley is done with Q, Tori, while she's still out there peddling her dime store fear and nonsense. She ran for Secretary of State of Ohio in 2022, I believe. And yeah, she put a flaming queue literally in her logo,

which was embarrassing to me, but she raised quite a bit of money. I'm not sure where that went. So she has a podcast she did for many years. Now she very rarely because she's making so much money. She just travels all over the world now. She goes on vacation and calls it work, calls it journalism, even though no journalist anything comes from it. It's all fundraising. So currently Tori, last year she was

losing so many followers so quickly, like 100 a day at least, and it was really fun to watch it. And we celebrate every little thousand it dropped. We do little confettis in our room and she is very deeply loved by, I would say there's maybe a few thousand people. It's full of very tight-knit group of cultists who are abusing one another constantly verbally. They're all very paranoid about each other. Well, that sounds like a charming little get-together that I'm going to stay home for. Thank you very much. That is our show for today. But before we go, we just want to remind everyone that Election Day is right around the corner. Oh, shit, really? It is.

I better read up on the candidates. Wait, who's running again? It seems like the Dodgers and the Yankees, probably. Go Cubs. A free and fair election, guys, is a very important part of keeping away demagogues and dictators. And while we are just silly little podcast hosts, we would like to formally endorse the sensible candidate that doesn't promote fear and divisiveness. And isn't working out his daddy issues in a public forum like, dude, save that shit for your therapist. Say it with me. It's OK to be wrong.

It's OK to be wrong. But it is not OK to grab them by the pussy. Great 2016 callback, Tyler. Nice. You know, it's still relevant. So for all of these and many, many other reasons, we at Was I an Occult strongly believe that Kamala Harris is a smart, experienced and kind leader. She's the leader that America needs right now, and we hope you'll cast your vote for her on November 5th. Which also happens to be my birthday.

Oh, well, happy early birthday. So, guys, give Tyler and humanity a lovely gift by voting for Kamala this election. And look, everyone, if you disagree with us, that's fine. That is the beauty of opinions. But don't stop listening to us or the show because of it. Just keep your baby with your bathwater, guys. Like, babies love the baths. Don't don't separate them, man.

Don't throw them out. Male podcasters like baths too now Yeah, this podcaster does have you taken a bath yet speaking of baths? Have you guys bathed yet? Nope? Can bring the horse to water guys can't make him drink not in man make him bathe in it right But you know if you put a horse in water, it will jump out if it's burning. You know. No, it won't. A horse won't either.

It's a fallacy, a canard. So the horse will also boil to death? Of course a horse will jump out of the water if it gets too hot. It's a horse, of course. Man, I was looking forward to boiled horse night. Mmm. They're better deep fried. And on that note if you haven't listened to our vegan cult podcast do that now.

Mmm. A huge thank you to you guys our listeners we love doing this show and we are grateful that every week you guys give us your vote by liking and subscribing. If you haven't given a like or subscribe, please do so. It helps our show. It helps our ratings. And write us a review as well if you haven't done that yet. We really appreciate it. And if you have a cult story or know someone who does, don't hesitate to reach out.

We do love hearing from you all the time. Even if you don't have a cult story, we like hearing from you. That's true. And so we'll be back next week with a great tale of a woman whose father was the cult leader. I mean, as a child, I would have so many nightmares of devils flying around in my bedroom because my dad would say like, oh, I just saw the demon fly up over there. And so I just was always a shadow, kind of looks like the demon must flown up to my room.

They're up in my ceiling now. It was just a state of constant fear. The constant fear of just praying every night to forgive all of my sins so I didn't die and go to hell. ["The Last Supper"] Was I an occult? Is written, produced and hosted by me, Tyler the Lizard Man Mee-some. And me, the pizza and hot dog stand owner Liz Iacuzzi. Audio editing and sound design wizard is the tin foil hat wearing Rob Para.

Although I gotta say, Rob, you really pull it off. It really looks good on you. Oh thanks. It's actually a wider brim than I'm used to wearing so it's actually kind of ambitious for me to step out wearing it. So thank you. Additional audio editing by the fake moon lander Greta Stromquist. And JFK Jr. in disguise is our executive producer Stephen Labrum. And as always, thanks for listening. See you guys next time on Was I in a Cult? Until then, by God, stay out of cults.

Stay out of cults, folks. Did you know that about folks? That's true. It is absolutely 100% true. Don't let anyone tell you differently. That's a great analogy. Works better with pigs. That was funny. That's a nice callback, Liz. Thank you. All right. Works better with pigs. That was funny. That's a nice callback, Liz.

Thank you. All right. Works better with dicks, did you say, Rob? No, I said with pigs, but I see what's on your mind. I just snorted like a pig.