Was I In A Cult? - Scientology - Pt1: "Mom, I Am Your Mother"

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

This week we're back on Scientology. And until they stop destroying families and draining bank accounts, we'll keep talking about it.Liz Gale, a third generation ex-Scientologist and author of Confessions of an Ex-Scientologist Pothead, grew up privileged in the church in the 80s and 90s - Scientology royalty, some could say, connected to the Miscavige family, boarding schools, the works. But privilege doesn't protect you when the doctrine teaches your mother that loving you too much is dangerous. That comforting you when you're hurt will damage your soul. That sending you away at eight years old is the most maternal thing she can do to protect you from traumatizing you more. This is a story about what happens when a "religion" crawls between a mother and her child and severs the most primal bond we have.Liz is funny as hell. She's also been through hell. And she's not done talking.This is Part 1 of 2. Listen, then call your kids and tell them you love them.FOLLOW US For more culty content - follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacultFOLLOW LIZ GALE Find Liz on TikTok → @liz_liz_gale_gale & Instagram. Her book Confessions of an Ex-Scientologist Pothead is available now.SUPPORT THE SHOWRate, review, share. Join us on Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations.HAVE A CULTY STORY?Email us → [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Let's pretend we're a pregnant first-time Scientology mom. We're lying in bed and we're like eight months pregnant thinking, who's this baby? Who are they going to be? They're going to be someone who just passed away. There's trauma in passing away. But you're thinking that you're receiving this spirit that just underwerewery. went this trauma into your body, really. Is there anything more invasive than that? You're just thinking about like everybody dying out there and they're just going,

coming into your body. So is Rosalboh. Welcome to was I in a cult. I'm Liz Ayakuzzi. You said that last week. I did. Yeah. I'll continue to repeat yourself.

And I'm Tyler Isam, which I also said last week. But I didn't say this line, which is we're back with Scientology. As we should be. You know, until that place is no longer recruiting, innocent people, hypnotizing them, destroying families' bank accounts, we will continue to talk about them in front of their backs, not behind. I do see there's some nice billboards around. It's crazy. They're just people like by the pool and ones like, I'm a Scientologist. I am a Scientologist.

Curious, it says? Yeah. Did you see the ones with the mom and the kid now? I'm a mother, and it puts there what they are, mother, writer, lawyer. Steve, cinematographer. Right. I'm a Scientologist. I mean, Mormonism did that ad campaign a long time ago.

I'm a Mormon. So just one cult copying another cult, I suppose. Marketing. Marketing. Stupid. Yes. So we are doing Scientology because every story matters, every survivor matters. And today's guest, why we should have done this on the 4th of July, because she's a firecracker.

I'm biased because she and I share the same name. But I don't know. It's one of the best conversations I've had on the show, I think. That actually you did say last week and the week before and the week before you say that often. And it's true every time, Piler. It's true every time. It's just like when my husband loves cooking for me because I'm like, this is the best salad. And in that moment it is.

And then until tomorrow's salad. I'll remember that. Liz Gale is our guest today. Liz, correct? She is. It is, Liz Gail. She is funny. Guys, you think I'm dark, okay?

Her dark humor even surprised me a bit, and I love her for it. We talk about it all. I learned so many new things, unfortunately, about this horrible cult, which is why I love this show, because it's not about the cult, it's about the survivor. And we always learn about the cult through the survivor's experience. Liz Gail is a third-generation Scientologist. Her grandmother got in when it was Dianetics in the 1950s in California. And here's where it gets wild.

Liz was raised to believe she was her grandmother reincarnated, which I'm having a hard time figuring that out. It means her mother thought she was raising her own mother. Now that I did not say last week. Not high enough for this conversation. and we've never heard that one before. So that's a new one. So this is a story about Scientology, yes, of course,

but it is also about being... Sorry, I'm saying it again. So this, yes, is a story about Scientology, about being raised quite privileged in this religion, about a Scientology compound tied to the Miscavich family and all that, but it's really a story about motherhood and the devastation that Scientology creates between a mother and child's natural bond.

Right. And I'm not going to be very involved in this episode. I just sneak in every once in a while, and that's okay because... Today you make the fart jokes, Tyler. The two Lizes have the floor. Welcome to the show, Liz. Great name, by the way. For the sake of the podcast, I feel like we're going real fast here, but that's okay.

This is what happens. I go to the end and then I'm like, wait, let's actually tell the full story. Are we talking about the CIA? already in the 1960s. This is where we're at. Then God damn it. Just introduce yourself. Oh, gosh. Hi. Hi. I am Liz Gale. I call myself the friendly and messy third generation ex-scientologist. And I love the title of your book. Yes. I've written a book called Confessions of an Ex-Scientologist, Pothead. So I'm an activist. I'm an artist. I'm an author, but I'm honestly just trying to live my life. Deal with my past. Deal with my generational trauma. build a better life for myself, for my children, and trying to process.

It's kind of a bummer to get out of one cult and then get out into the real world and lose that, even though it's false, but that sense of security that is offered in these high control groups. You've got all the answers. Everything's perfect. You're going to be fine because you've got this secret key. And that's what Scientology is. You are with people who think that aliens are coming back and these confidential levels and selling you control to be a god, it's snake oil.

But if you believe it, there's something so soothing to that. Unfortunately, it comes with coercion. It comes with lies. It comes with slavery. It comes with manipulation. It comes with financial exploitation and human trafficking. Those are fun. Those are fun.

So your third generation Scientology. Yes. So this means that my mother's mother in the 1950s in California, stumbled across Elron Hubbard's Dianetics. Now, this was the book that he wrote before Scientology was started and he offered it to the world as a science, the modern science of mental health. And he prevents it as scientific fact that will work 100% of the time to heal basically every physical ailment as well as emotional psychosis. And it basically was like regressive hypnotism that he repackaged. And so my grandma got really into that. And my mother was born

when my grandma was 40. So by the time my mother was born, my grandmother was full on. So she applied dionetics to her childbirth, how she treated her unborn child. As in every religion, at some point, you believe that a spirit or something comes into your baby and they become their own person. And so in Scientology, that spirit probably just died somewhere. So they have this technology to help you make that process smoother so that this new baby is like healthy. In fact, the first addition of Dianetics uses the word abortion 57 times. Elron Hubbard was obsessed with attempted abortions, prenatal things, things that would happen when you're pregnant, basically. Because through the lens of the 1950s, there wasn't an understanding of neurodivergency. So it looked really badly

on the mother if your kid had developmental delays or birth defects because that means that you did something that made this spirit transition not work and it all comes down to what the mother does what she says so upsetting because being a mother is already such a burden and I say that without the negative connotation like you're taking on so much and you always feel like you're failing you always feel like you're not doing it right but mind you Alron's not putting this on the sperm putting it on the mothers, how horrible if your kid acts out. That's your fault as a mother. So how could mothers not internalize that? And in some way, blame their kid. Like it has to create some sort of resentment towards your own child. It does. And you've hit a real chord. So my grandmother

believed this wholeheartedly and raised my mother. The solution then is to just keep them cool, keep them calm till they're eight years old and then submit them heavily to Scientology processing. That's when they're old enough to address what one calls the whole track, which would be everything that's ever happened to them for eternity. Eight years old. And I was sent to Scientology boarding school at eight years old. My brother was sent to Scientology boarding school at eight years old. Do you want to talk about your grandmother and you?

Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Okay, so, as I said before, my grandmother was responsible. for getting my maternal family into Scientology. Somewhere in those early days, I must have said or done something where the conclusion was that I was actually my grandmother, my own maternal grandmother, reincarnated. Now, this adds up because she died before I was born. And of course, why wouldn't you? It'd be the best, right? Oh, I raised this Scientologist. Now I'm going to come back. You're going to raise me. All growing up, there wasn't a single picture of my grandmother in our house. I've seen a picture of my maternal grandmother like twice.

Yeah, but why is that? No photos. Because she's protecting me from that trauma, right? Imagine I'm coming home from school. I take off my back. I see a picture of my own self from my past life. That's going to jumble me up spiritually. So she's protecting me by keeping me away from that identity.

Imagine from my mother's perspective. You're now raising your own mother? What? No. Actual health. How did that change your relationship within your family and your feeling of responsibility. Oh, well, I mean, I remember, like, my mom's like, clean your room. Like, you can't tell me to clean my room. I'm your mom. You clean your room. You go to your room, little lady.

How dare you? Do you even know who you're talking to? So tell us a little bit about how you were raised. I was born in 1982. I definitely would say I had a privileged Scientology upbringing. We're not celebrities. We're not extremely wealthy. Both my parents happened to be truly. believers, dedicated their lives. My father, who passed away when I was 12, he was a successful business guy. And my mom was not stay at home. She was stay at Scientology. She's a professional Scientologist. She volunteered also as a spokesperson for Citizens Commission on Human Rights, which is also called CCHR. And that is the arm of Scientology that fights the psychiatrists, like really hardcore. It's a battle against the evil. You know, my mom was very much embroiled in

battle. My older brother was four years older. My dad was from New Hampshire. So in the 80s, he went back to New Hampshire and bought a big chunk of land and sold it to other Scientologists in parcels and started a Scientology community. And then they worked for his business. Some pretty big names lived there, a bunch of the Miscavage family, his brother's wife, his parents, his twin sister worked for my dad. My family was close and knew them. Also was very friendly with the Scientology boarding school that started out here in Oregon. You're privileged to send your child to this boarding school because it's the best Scientology, you know, education in the country. My brother goes on to graduate at 14. He was a computer genius. He got into MIT at 15. So by now, wow, it's

working. We've got this great school and we've got this genius kid. So we're just like this shoe in for this perfect, idealic upper middle class family. Now, here's a story for you. So my brother, when he was four years old, there's a party, there was a pony ride. He says, I don't want to get on the horse. My mom says, get on the horse. He says, if I get on that horse, I'm going to break my arm. My mom says, oh, you're fine. Get on the horse. He gets on the horse. He falls off. He breaks his arm. Goes into the doctor and has to go in surgery. He gets his bone reset. And then when he comes out, according to my mother, he was different. He was a different child. In Scientology, this means that during his time of pain and unconsciousness, subconscious memories were stored in his reactive mind. And my mom was there,

comforting him. She was the last one to say, I love you before he went out for anesthesia. So she becomes the trigger. My mother straight up told me the reason my brother was sent to boarding school at eight years old was because she believed that she was holding him back. Just existing in this traumatic experience was a trigger for her own child. So to put a little bow around it with Diana, genetics creates this fracture between you and your child, where you are holding them so fragile for that first little bit just to get them ready to send them off to protect them from yourself. I mean, it's tragic. And that is literally what happened in my family. That sucks. Where was the mother that should have said, no, this is normal. Like, it sucks to break your arm

and you're an active little four-year-old boy. It doesn't mean that you need to send them away to protect them from yourself. And it's bypassing all of your mother's intuition. And that is the strongest intuition as a woman I've experienced is the intuition I have with my son. Yeah. So to be told. You gave me goosebumps by saying that truly. Because honestly, the number one most dangerous thing, in my opinion, to Scientology, is a mother's intuition.

All right, everyone, quick Valentine's Day fact. Now, Americans spend over $2 billion, that's billion with a B, on 4th. flowers every year for Valentine's Day alone, which tells me two things. One, people care. And two, nobody wants to screw this holiday up. Romance is not dead. Tyler, it's not dead. No, romance is still thriving at my house on Valentine's Day because I have a secret. It's not really a secret. It's 1-800flowers.com. Oh yes, your annual, I swear I plan this. Diana. Right. I get it. I get it. Look, but every year, 1-800 flowers delivers, right? Their bouquets are stunning. Flowers high-quality, and they show up on time. Yeah, this is true. They are so reliable, and they're fantastic. Don't let anyone tell you that doesn't matter, that it shows up on time. It does. It matters a lot. It certainly does. And why? Because 1-800 flowers has been doing this for 50 years. Sourcing roses at 50 years, Liz. Sourcing roses from high-altitude farms that produce bigger blooms, richer colors, and flowers that actually.

actually last. In fact, they back it up with a seven-day freshness guarantee. So the roses keep looking great long after Valentine's Day. Plus, they offer same-day delivery nationwide, which is huge if Valentine's Day has a habit of, oh my God, it's here. Whoops. So don't wait. The bouquets are selling fast. Make this Valentine's Day one she'll remember to get your double blooms offer. Buy one dozen. Get one dozen roses free. Two, two. Buy one dozen. Is that right? That's what it says. Good offer.

It's a good offer. I know. It is a good offer, right? Go to 1800flowers.com slash cult. That's 1800flowers.com slash cult to double your roses for free. So you're saying you buy one dozen and you get two free? That's what it says. We should double check that.

Are you in front of two dozen roses courtesy of Liz and Tyler? You're welcome. We should double check that. But if not, I think it's ready to go. I'll check it really fast. We're checking the facts of this ad. Rob, give us a moment. A few moments later.

Get your double bloom offers. Buy one dozen, get two dozen roses free. Oh. That's correct. 1-800 flowers.com slash colt. To double your roses for free. All right, Liz, quick question. Who do you think poops more in weight in a year?

A cat or a human? I don't want to know. I don't like where this is headed, Tyler. A human averages about 100 pounds a year. A cat closer to 200 pounds a year. Excuse me? You heard me, Liz. What's going on in the feline intestine?

Yeah, 200 pounds. That's like a full-sized refrigerator. But I live with this cute little cat named Buzzy, and I assure you the math checks out, which means when 200 pounds a year is going into a litter box, well, it's kind of stink. Unless you have better litter. Oh!

Oh, are you trying to sell me something, Liz? I might. And this is where we perfectly segue from poop facts to product sales. That's why we use the cat litter boxy pro. Boxy pro. The pro stands for probiotics, which stop the bacteria that cause odor so the smell doesn't get masked. It gets eliminated. Scientists finally cared about cat poo smell.

All 200 pounds. Boxy Pro keeps the litter box continuously odor-free. You just scoop, you top it off, and you never need to dump the whole box. And there's no fake sense. I use it. So should you. Because 200 pounds of poop isn't getting solved with lilac breeze. And there's none of that silly fake sets, those fake smells, you know, that they put in?

That mixed with the poo smell is like, bleh. Yeah. Just like a cat pooped in the lilacs. That's really all it is. So if you're tired of switching litters, looking for the, one, get boxy at B-O-X-I-E-C-A-T dot com. Boxicat.com. It's the last litter you'll switch to get 30% off with code cult at boxycat.com slash cult.

All right. If there's one thing Liz and I both like to do, it is to cook. Chop, chopping, chop, chop, chop. Yeah, the smells in the kitchen, the sounds. A little wine. You got some wine, you got some music on. You're dancing like no one's watching. Because nobody should be watching.

You dance. I beg to differ. I got a good white man's overbite. I can do it. So cooking we love, right? Grocery shopping, we don't really like doing that. That is true. But guess what?

We have a solution for these problems. Marley Spoon. That's where it comes in. It's a new sponsor. We actually really like this. We've tried it for a number of weeks, right? Delivered right to your door. I'm very pleased with this company, guys.

I've tried a lot. True. We have. We have. I think four. This is my favorite so far. Yeah, it's fantastic. Marley Spoon basically does all the annoying parts for you.

They plan, they shop, they measure. So you just get to dance in your kitchen. Yeah, with Pino-N-O-R. Just perfecting the hustle, which you know, you're too young for the hustle. But do the hustle. Solid. I'm going to do the running man instead. They have also 100 recipes every week from comfort food to

lighter, fresher meals. They also have these 20-minute options. They're traybakes where you throw everything on one tray and you're done. Fantastic. And they do have pre-made stuff too if you're really lazy and you just want to like eat something up. And they're all great. They are great. We've had about, oh, about 12 meals so far. My favorite, the Baja tacos, they're crispy, they're tender. They got a little kick to it, a little spicy saracha mayo. My favorite so far was the grilled satar chicken salad. It was like a way more fancier, delicious, or Caesar. It was really, really yummy.

I'm very impressed with this place. It's kind of cool because you still get to cook and everything comes in one box. It's really simple. You get to order everything. Honestly, it's rad. So this new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Go to marly spoon. com slash offer slash cult for up to 25 free meals.

Yeah, 25 free meals, guys, up to 25. Okay, 25 free meals. You go to Marley Spoon.com forward slash offer forward slash cult and eat, just eat and dance in your kitchen. Cook. Be a gourmand on a Tuesday. Why not? Meals reimagined for life. Marley Spoon.

Many people who speak out about Scientology grew up as basically wards of the church. Their parents had dedicated their lives to the Sea Organization, signing. a billion-year contract. They were working 60, 80, 100 hours a week. All the children were removed and raised in dorms. Now, the guy who said that's okay doesn't value family, period. You'd be positioned seven hours away from your kid. Family was the least important thing.

Because family is the most threatening to keeping you in, right? Exactly. And, furthermore, because of the era that Elron Hubbard came from, there are some references to him talking. about Nazi youth because we're talking the 50s everyone was still very much talking about everything that had happened in World War II and removing children and trying to raise them in a particular way just erasing their past identity and then filling it in with X, Y, Z. The definition of brainwashing. You're breaking a human down to nothing. So if you can get them

at eight, you have less breaking down you have to do. Like they're still so malleable, which is so predatory. Gross. Get out of here. You don't need my eight-year-old. Get out of here. You don't need any eight-year-olds. Let alone, you don't need to audit a child in utero.

Depends who you ask. You ask a Scientologist. Okay, let's pretend. Let's pretend we're a pregnant first-time Scientology mom. We're lying in bed, eight months pregnant, thinking, who's this baby going to be? They're going to be someone who just passed away, right? So there's trauma and passing away. You're thinking that you're receiving this spirit that,

just underwent this trauma into your body. Is there anything more invasive than that? You're just thinking about like everybody dying out there and they're just going coming into your body. So stressful. So you want to create like an energetic force field around yourself so that you don't attract the wrong one. If you're lucky, it will be another Scientologist who has recently passed away. That's the dream. And if your baby turns out to be a past life Scientologist and in their past life, they spent 300 grand. Boom, you just save so much money because now they come back and they don't have to do that first part. So it's very practical financially. That is very practical. That's a pro tip for any Scientologist listening, just so you know. Make sure you reincarnate a level

eight at least. Well, you can't be too high because that's problematic because they need a little bit of money from you. If you're not a little bit of a cash cow, you're a problem. What's your earliest memory of Scientology dogma being forced on you? I would say, the contact assist. It's this idea that if you're in pain or unconscious, those memories and feelings will be stored in the reactive mind, the bad part of your mind, and then you will become subject to reactions, triggers from them. As a steward of children, you want them to get the least amount of recordings as possible. You want them to get the least amount of damage as possible. So when a child or anybody is hurt or upset, everybody has to be quiet.

because anything you say will be recorded at that time because the child is in pain or unconscious at Scientology Schools. When someone on the playground scrapes their knee, every single child on the playground must stop and be quiet under punitive damages because, well, first of all, you can't refuse. But if you don't, it's like, what's wrong with you? You must be an evil person. If your friend Sally scraped her knee, you want to make it worse? And then Sally has two options.

So say she scraped her knee. She either can go over the physical action. Physically, do exactly what scraped her knee. She doesn't have to run her knee over the concrete, but like very close. So say she's running and she fell. She would have to go back and reenact that fall over and over again until she shows signs of being bored, shopping, crying, feeling better. Because it's a sign of your character if you are speaking,

when someone is hurt. The quiet thing is not negotiable. But the other option for the contact assist is for the person to say, where did it happen? Where are you now? And the idea is it supposed to bring the body into realizing we're not being hurt right now. It happened. It's done. So imagine, imagine you're a little kid and you fall down and then your mom all she'll say to you. Literally all the woman will say is, where did it happen? Happened right here. You literally watched it happen. Where are you now? I'm still standing right here answering your fucking question about where it happened. But ironically, that is survival. To be angry is survival. So now that I'm mad, she's like, oh good, process is over. So I'm like, cool. So now I'm just like inexplicably angry

every time I get hurt. So the sadness is like the bad part. But angry is like, okay, we got it. Yes. You're good now. Yes. You're no longer like in an unsurvile and distress. Yes. Yes. You're self-sufficient because angry people can take out the trash on their own. Exactly. Yeah, we're going to make it through. So I'm basically heckled as a child. Every time I get hurt, where did it happen? Where are you now?

Are you for real? By the time you're four, why would you go inside and tell your mom you fell down at that point? Well, I was going to say, are they doing this at three? Oh, yeah. No, you are brought up doing this. In fact. So when you're two and you're like, I think, bap, bow, bow. And it's like bob your head.

And actually. the where did it happen where we now is used more often on very young children because otherwise you're going to what move their body for them through the injury pretend to smash them with a block over and over even most mothers aren't going to do that come on that's what happens when you physically hurt but i have a three-year-old emotions are obviously very present what happens if your kids like defiant or sad how do you deal with those upsets there are like 30 other types of assists one of them is a locational, and that's usually what they do for kids, where you say, look at that tree, and then they look at it, and then you acknowledge them. Yes, thank you. Look at that. Thank you. Look at that. Which as a mom is not that weird, but in true Scientology sense, it has a very specific start, a very specific end, and you can only say specific words during the process. Otherwise, you are creating more trauma, theoretically. Whatever Elron Hubbard said was the way to do it, you have to do it that way. The other thing is that they have their own. linear chart of emotions. And there's a very specific line of survival, pro survival, non-survival,

and anger is basically that line. Grief, fear, sympathy, pain, apathy are non-survival. Anger, boredom, antagonism, enthusiasm, interest. Those are pro-survival. So, hot tip, I'll save you like a thousand bucks. In Scientology, what they say is that if a person is in grief, you want to bring them to boredom. That's the next logical step. If you come at them with enthusiasm, they're going to turn off. Ew, you're too happy, gross.

So you got to come to them with the very next level up. So if your kid's in grief, you got to come and act bored. And then that is going to make them come up to boredom. Then you get a little angry. And then they're going to get angry. And then you're going to be able to work your lay up.

So psych your kid out with that one. I laugh. But honestly, that is the core wound that we are dealing with. Is that what you were meant to do when your dad died to deal with your grief? Bring yourself to boredom. Bring yourself to anger. Essentially, yes.

Again, with these assists, they have one for the loss of someone where they ask you, look around here and find something that reminds you of the person and then look around here and find something that doesn't remind you of the person. And you just do that back and forth. And the only ending is when the person's behavior changes. So some of these processes could take days. Tire you out emotionally. I mean, yeah.

This is the only way that people do with you. It is so frustrating because when you talk to another human about your grief, there's a going back and forth. The person's not going to say the same two phrases over and over again to you. That's weird. That's not a conversation anymore. That's a ritual. That's a practice.

Whatever it is, it's not a normal human interaction. So, yes, I was offered that when my father died. but I didn't take them up on it because I had already gone through those assists when my dog died and honestly I don't want to deal with it. I was 12 and I had my REM on and I was listening, everybody hurts like on repeat, loud enough

so everybody around me could hear it. When were you first audited? How young? I was audited before I was born. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I bet I was audited before you were audited. You definitely were. No.

So you know how some faiths believe that when the sperm hits the egg, that's when a spirit is connected. Scientology doesn't have that belief. They have the belief that the spirit connects to the body closer to the time that the baby is born, which is a huge part of why you may have heard of a high number of abortions in Scientology. If you kind of Google Scientology and abortion, there's a whole rabbit hole. But it's weird. People think it's weird.

Like, why would a religion force abortions? But what would make you abort it according to them? If you had signed a billion-year contract and worked for Scientology, and then you were sick of sleeping in a dorm with 25 beds, so you shacked up and got married, and then you happened to get pregnant because you can't afford birth control on your $50 a week stipend.

You would most likely be, I don't want to say forced, coerced into abortion. You can look this up. Many people have brought forth their own personal stories about Scientology, coercing them to get abortions so that they can continue to dedicate every moment of their lives to labor.

The other thing to note, When you're a true believer, you want to fill your toolbox with all scientificology. You want every tool because you want to be the best mom you can be. My mother became a very high level trained auditor. They don't even offer that level anymore, specifically to audit her children, to give them the best leg up the possible. So I remember being in our auditing room, two-ish, three-ish. I couldn't write.

I could only draw crayons. But the point of it is very ritual. You're only saying certain things, asking certain questions, drawing pictures to give clues. Like, what do you remember? Where were you? If I could get my hands on those PC folders from when I was two, I want them. Which is also freaky because Scientology knows more about me than I know about myself.

I don't know what's in those folders. I don't know what I said when I was two. And are you on the cans? I wasn't at that age. I was too small. But the tiniest set of cans is, remember old film canisters? They're that small. Because it's not just the size of your hands.

You have to sit really small. still. And so I remember when I very first could do it, I felt very proud because I'd already been audited so much and now I could finally get on the meter. One of my ex-antrologist friends, he akins the cans of handcuffs because while it does seem like you are holding the cans, you can't move. You cannot move. Imagine a meter. Like if you just go like this, the needle jumps. And remind people, it's basically your nervous system, right? The e-meter, I believe it's the 11. electro-galvinameter, and I'm going to get that wrong, but it's one of the parts of a lie detector,

a polygraph. It tests the reaction of your skin contracting, but they believe it's reading your soul. So you have two cans, one in each hand, and a small electrical current is going through your body. For example, you could be silent, and they'll go through a list of colors, fuchsia, red, pomegranate. And they're just going to read the reaction on this e-meter, and then they'll tell you when you're done, your favorite color is violet. You could hate the color violet. You can't disagree. No, this is your new color now, your wardrobe, you're violet.

We're going to call you violet now because it knows more than you know. So it doesn't matter what you say. But what it's really doing is training you to completely abandon self. Yes, you have no sense of privacy. You have no sense of intuition anymore. Imagine somebody telling you what your favorite color is. And you can't even say no. And then you think, oh, maybe it is my favorite color.

maybe deep down in some past life. This is my favorite color. But if you're auditing a young kid, like they don't have a lot of life to draw back on. So what are you talking to a four-year-old about when you're in an audit? Everything in Scientology is earlier similar, right? So you're going to be asking them an earlier similar. It could even be a positive thing.

Like, okay, tell me about an ice cream that tastes good. Okay, now tell me about an earlier time. Okay, good, earlier similar, earlier similar. The reason that they asked you in Scientology earlier is because there's this idea that energy is trapped. Let's talk about skinning your knee. You skin your knee in this lifetime. You're going to get some trauma. But it's going to reignite that time in 1700 that you fell on your knee and your leg got cut off.

And that other time when you were a caveman and a bear ripped your knee off. So in order to dispel all of that connected negative energy, you have to go to the first thing that happened, which would be the bear ripping your leg off as a caveman. You're constantly asking, go back, go back. Earlier, similar. Now, when you're on the meter, it's a lot more technical because you're looking at the way that the needle responds to resistance and moves in different ways, and each way means something. And there's a certain movement that will signify like all the energy is gone and you move on to the next question.

When you're not on the meter, it's more based on the, they call it the indicators. Like if the person is smiling and happy, right? But opposite of that. If you ask them earlier similar and they get tired, they get angry, they get cranky, they want to leave, that means there's bad energy there. So you have to keep going. So I can't speak exactly to what I was asked when I was two, but it's always go earlier. Would you like come up with previous life stuff? Yes, for sure. Anything you would say would be interpreted as your previous life. Right. So if you're like, I don't know, I'm thinking about horses. And it's, oh, maybe she was a cowboy. Tell me about an earlier time. And then, you know, on the other side of that, it can be used. pretty punitively as well. Like when I was eight, for example, before I went to boarding school to unburden me, my kind and loving mother gave me what is called the Children's Security Check, which is a 99 question interrogation that is done on the e-meter. And it is four children, ages six to 12. And the questions are, have you ever done anything to your body you weren't supposed

to you? Have you had an unkind thought about your parents? Have you ever stolen anything? I don't know. Have you ever blamed anything on anybody? Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever had an unkind thought about your parents? I'm a kid. She'd give me an ice cream cone. All right, real quick, I'm popping in to share some of these questions that Liz, Gail, shared with us because they are, and I don't even know, I don't even know what to call these. Horrifying.

Horrifying. It's a good word. Now, we can't share all 99 of these, but here are a few to kind of give you an idea. Now, this is from an actual Scientology document. These are questions asked to children ages 6 to 12 on an e-meter. Now, pay close attention because you'll see they are inducing shame, destroying trust in your family, making normal childhood behavior feel like moral failings. Planting seeds so that these kids distrust everyone except Scientology.

Scientology. Of course. Of course. Here we go. Have you ever decided you did not like some member of your family? Have you ever made yourself sick or hurt yourself to make somebody sorry? Have you ever been mean or cruel to an animal, bird, or fish? It's like, are they vetting, like, sociopaths?

Yeah, it sounds like something the FBI would ask. What is happening? Yeah. Have you ever done anything to your body that you shouldn't have? Have you ever done anything to someone else's body that you shouldn't have? They're asking these questions to six-year-olds. save those questions for the adults. Yeah, for Mind Hunter.

Right. For John Lee Gacy. Exactly. Have you ever felt that your parents and home weren't good enough for you? Well, now I do. Thanks. Now I have. Have you ever felt that your parents and home were too good for you?

Ah, so you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cool. Have you ever tried to make others believe that your parents or teachers were cruel to you? Have you ever offered the excuse for something? something you've done wrong, that you're only a child or that you haven't grown up yet. So they can't even use being a child as a defense for being a child? Children are just little adults, according to them. Of course.

Have you ever felt your parents wouldn't understand something that happened in school so you didn't tell them? Have you ever cried when you shouldn't have? Liz, have you ever cried when you shouldn't have? When shouldn't I have cried? So now every kid's just going to think it's wrong when they cry. I guess if they're genuinely asking and not shaming, maybe, I don't know. You know what these people need, that they are so against therapy. Yeah.

Common sense. Here's another one. Have you ever been a coward to a six-year-old? Yeah, let me shame you for being afraid of the dark. Monsters. Have you ever decided someday when I'm grown up, I'll get even? If so, with whom? I don't know L. Ronnie Ron.

you clearly did. Have you ever hurt anyone by telling them you didn't love them anymore? This is like the playbook of sociopaths. Like, what is happening? Yeah, and this is what? We've just done maybe 15. There's another 90 of these things laying around, yeah. Have you ever thought someone was crazy?

Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Whoever wrote these fucking questions, first and foremost. Yes. 99 questions. And none of them make sense. I got 99 questions.

For children. 99 questions and they're all manipulative as hell. Yep. And it's not over until the e-meter says so. So in that sense, the e-meter becomes so much more. Because they're asking you a question. So let's say, have you ever stolen anything? I'm eight years old.

I snuck a hot wheel in my pocket. I took that sucker or whatever. But the needle isn't showing that it's clear, like that the energy is gone. on, that means that something earlier similar happened. So you end up in the past life territory. And even if you're like, I don't know what this means, they'll tell you. It's like, what was that? Well, I thought about a blue, I don't know, potato.

Tell me more. You're like, I don't know. It's a blue potato. And then if you happen that your energy clears, then they'll say something specific. I'd like to indicate it was a blue potato. Thank you. And then it's over. But it's not over until the e-meter says it's over, which, you know, you're talking about

autonomy, you're talking about a right to privacy, developing minds, developing self-identity. I don't even think I can comprehend what actual damage that does. You are supposed to prepare your child to pick up those cans at 8 years old. They're already supposed to understand how to look up words in the dictionary and study the way Scientology says you have to study. They already have to understand the mind, body, spirit connection as defined by Scientology. They have to be indoctrinated.

A lot. I will tell you that, yes, I own a couple of emitters, but I won't pick up. up those cans. No, thank you. I was thinking about putting tannerite. It's like a home explosive that used for target practice. We live out in the country. You put some tannerite in there and then blow that puppy up. Make sure you video it and send it to me. I would please my inner child. All righty. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. Now these are all things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds.

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Variant's not available in all stages situations. Sorry, I had to just take it on. Well, thanks, Liz. You're welcome. Yeah, you did a lot better than me. Thank you. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

All right, here we are selling quince again, everybody, and I don't care if you're tired of it. Quince is rad. Over Christmas, my wife, she didn't just get a couple things from quince. She got 10 new quince items. That's what I'm talking about, Diana. Let's go. Mm-hmm. You know the best part about this man out there?

I nailed it. I got all the sizes correct. She liked all of them. And being the cheap skate that I am, their prices made it easier. I said it. I will acknowledge. Christmas was like giving and getting quince, and I feel like we should just give it all to quince. I got a sweater or two or maybe three.

I got my wife one of those cashmere sweaters. It makes me want to hug her more often. They are very soft. I'm wearing on right now. My husband got, yeah, socks from quince. You bought your husband socks for Christmas? Not the only thing. that and Cole.

All right. Okay. No, he loved it. Men love socks. Men love getting socks. I love Quintz socks. I love socks. So, you know, whatever.

Get a purse. I got him a cashmere socks, by the way. They're so nice. And they were $30. Do you know what those normally would go for? So I hope that you've been using the code, Liz. Obviously. So, yeah, my wife, well, her birthday's coming up, going back to Quince.

Go. for the jewelry or purse, the leather Italian. Leather, it's wonderful. And make sure you use our code, Tyler. Don't forget our code, A, Liz. Please tell me more. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince, everyone. Don't wait.

Go to quince.com slash cult for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Tell them we sent you. It helps us. It helps you. We're all winning here. And it's now available in Canada. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash cult.

Get free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a whole year for all you people without a calendar. Quince.com slash cult. So at the time my father died, I didn't live with my parents. I had gotten into trouble at boarding school. I went to boarding school at 8, like I said. And around 12 years old, I was acting out, to be honest with you. If I could be a problem, I would be a problem.

I just wanted my parents to have to deal with me. Because if everybody else gave up on me, I'd get sent back home. So the solution was that I was suspended and I would go to Flag, which is Scientology's Mecca and Clearwater, and I would do what is called TR's and objectives, which is basically hypnotism to be controlled. my parents did not accompany me to Florida. My mother sent me to live with her friend's daughter. So 12 years old, I go stay with the 20 year old. I walk by myself every day to Scientology, take classes. I make my own meals.

I put myself to bed. I do my laundry. I'm 12 years old. This is fine. At least nobody's asking me where the fuck it happened and where I am now. Just kidding. That did happen actually. Just kidding.

Actually, I was getting assisted. So I went every day. and I did this course. The TRs are training routines. They are communication drills, but the higher level ones are called the indoctrination drills. One of them is called

controlling bodies. Do you think they could like maybe conceal the name a little bit? They're called the upper endoc series. You may have heard about Scientologists yelling at ashtrays. Real quick, guys, I hadn't heard about Scientologist

yelling at ashtrays. But guess who had? The Internet, thankfully. And thank God, someone in the, I'm assuming, early 90s said, you know what, we should film this. And now, because they had the forethought to do so, it lives online forever. So that you listeners, as well as we, get the pleasure of hearing some ex-Scientologists demonstrate the yelling at Astray's phenomenon that Liz is touching on.

Turn your volume down, guys. There's going to be some weird yelling here in a second. Also, I wish you could see the video because Robin Wright-Penn would definitely play the female part in this short. Haven't cast the mail yet. Start. Stand up! Flunk, you fail to acknowledge. Okay, start. Stand up!

And that's your... So, Robert, what does this do for you? What does this technique actually achieve? Well, the purpose of this is to give you the ability to direct your intention, to get something to come. Also, think, 12 years old, alone, I would just walk around Clearwater Beach at night by myself, looking for love in all the wrong places. That's insane, but anyway. At this time, a lot of children were sent to flag to do these courses.

I twinned up with another 12 or 13-year-old girl. It was stacked with teens and pre-teens. And this is the rehabilitation of all the bad kids of Scientology? Actually, this is a standard thing that everybody does. It was just rehabilitation for me. I'm a naughty girl. They're like, she can't stay here at boarding school. She's got to go learn how to be controllable.

So you do it back and forth. So first I would be the auditor and I would tell my twin to do things. One of them, for example, is look at that wall. And of course, thank you. Walk over to that wall. Thank you. Thank you. To say thank you?

Yes, you have to all the time. Like it's very specific. Like military. Yeah, you could say good. You could say well done. But you have to acknowledge them because it's part of the tech. it's a cycle of communication. You have to end that last command. Then you turn, you look at the wall across from you, look at that wall. Thank you. Walk over to that wall. Thank you. Touch that wall.

We did this. I am not exaggerating for hours on end. We would do this for days every day. Nine to six. There was only like 12 of these and the course took weeks. Just this same repetitive, hypnotic brainwashing. Because they're teaching you to become an auditor. They're teaching you to run a person through commands. And honestly, once you get through, you have to resist. If you're the person doing the drill, you're like fighting them.

And they're like, no. And they're using this intention to get you to touch the wall. So my whole life, before I became an adult, I'm thinking, oh, I'm learning how to control someone to take them in session

so that I can put Scientology on them so I can help them. No. I was learning how to be the sheep that stood there and touched the wall when they said and turned around when they said. And basically,

disassociated and only focused on these commands I was getting. One day, I get home and my mom's there. And I'm like, that's weird. My mom's here. And then my mom was like, your dad died. So, welcome to Florida. Your dad's dead. And I was like, what? And because he was so young, nothing bad had ever happened to me by then. That shook me. And we did go into Flag. Oh, here, you're going to love this. We went into Flag to get help, right, to get handling. I was offered this whole program and I didn't want to do it. My mom, though, she went in and she wrote this long letter to my dad about, hey, you're reincarnated now, but just so you know, you had a wife, you had children, were okay. And she put his clear bracelet. So if you hit a certain level in Scientology,

you get the ability to buy a bracelet and it's a status symbol. And you're a certain number, like you're a clear number, such and such. She put his clear bracelet in his folder with the assumption that one day he would be reborn, he would grow up, he would remember. He was a Scientologist. He would come back. He would find Scientology. He would do processing. His past life identity would come up. They would find his folder. They would say, oh, you're a past life clear. Here's your bracelet. Back on track. Let's go, baby. And conveniently, he had over $50,000 on his account, as they call it. Like he had paid already ahead of time for these future things. Scientology was gracious enough to roll that over has a donation to themselves and give my family patron with honors status, which came with a

pin about the size of a dime that my mother will probably be buried with. So they kept all the money. Oh, yeah. You can never ask for your money back from Scientology. It's written in any contract, even if you do an introductory course. If you ask for your money back, it's considered very hostile and you'll never be able to do Scientology again. Thank you.

That would be great. Yeah, exactly. Can I sign it for that list? Was your dad? Did he reach clear? Yes, my dad was on OT5. If you look at Scientology's chart, it's called the Bridge to Total Freedom. It starts at the bottom at introductory level, goes up about halfway as clear, which is where supposedly you would have gotten rid of that part of your mind that stores all that negative energy.

And then the next levels are confidential, and they go up to level eight. There is level 9 through 15 on the chart, but nobody's ever seen it. it's a fable if it exists. So my father was on OT5. And I do remember some bitch at Scientology headquarters because they were not thrilled with me that I didn't want to do their program. Because they were going to charge us for that. That program costs money. It's about $200 an hour. So they're like, hey, you want to feel better. You need to pay us $200 an hour for the grief counseling. Right. And I was like, I don't want to do that. And it has burned in my memory. And I was like, well, wait, what? What do you say? So he, he was.

was on OT5 and he dropped dead. How could this happen? In my mind, that did not compute. That's not how it goes. Scientology is survival. Pretty freaking non-survival that just dropped dead one day. So what gives? And this chick said to me, oh yeah, he dropped his body. That happens sometimes on OT5. I was so angry because I was just like, you couldn't bother to tell somebody? Like, you don't think a family man might want to know that this $50,000 course he's taking might just, I don't know, kill him. I'm still mad at her. Screw you, lady. That's rude.

Your parents met at a young age in Scientology. Yes. Were they arranged or was it like a grandparent's like, we got to get these two little perfect Scientologists together and continue this lineage? My dad was a little bit of a baller, you know. He had a white Mercedes convertible. If you are a fanatical Scientologist or probably any cults, you would prefer to find a partner in that group. It's also a very slim pickens pool. So I'm sure his Mercedes pulled up.

Looking at you, Katie Holmes. That's the guy. I'll take him. He was a volunteer for Scientology's dirty tricks department, the ones that do the harassment, the ones that do the surveillance, the one that do the lawsuits. It used to be called the Guardian's office way back in the day. and he was a part of that. And he would have dedicated his life to Scientology by joining the Seaorg and signing a billion year contract,

but he had done LSD, and that made him ineligible to join the C organization. So he had to remain a public. The best thing he could do was make a ton of money to be the breadwinner to support all of the Scientology going on around him. Is he a good dad? He was a boarding school. Yeah.

He was a workaholic, and he smoked cigarettes, and he was a computer guy in the 80s. So there's a vibe. But he was so fun. He was so kind. He never hurt me. He never spanked me. He was the only person in our family who had any semblance of what a real life was actually like.

So your parents growing up, did you feel love? No. It's pretty sad. It's pretty lonely. It's dark. It's filled with a lot of, I don't know where I'm going to be, who I'm going to be with, who I can trust. If I'll be okay. I have to create X, Y, Z, and then I'll get love.

I look back and I say, so my parents' language of love was gift giving. They're sending me to a school, buying me these clothes. You're eating a $15 meal, but you're alone. Scientology really nurtures narcissism, very self-centered thinking. So because my parents were so hardcore into it, they really leaned into a lot of narcissistic traits. So if I'm back here, I think, oh, they loved me, but they loved me through this way that didn't feel like love. Yeah. So you were in boarding school and eventually you left, then what happened? I got kicked out. I was stealing candy and coins. I mean, I basically was just like, screw you. They damn near turned me into a sociopath. I had a Friday standing appointment in ethics, which is like detention to go right up all of my crimes. So all week, I would just do whatever the fuck I wanted. And then I would write it up on Friday. I got to have someone to write up. So I did this for probably like nine weeks. And then eventually one of the staff was like, do you even want to be here? And I was like, wow, nobody's ever asked me that before.

As a matter of fact, no, I would prefer not to be here. What did you hate the most about it? I was always just against the grain. I just could never really fully comply. I just always felt just kind of weird there. I have a very vivid memory of walking from the dorm into the building and you walk up and then down and there's this spot that was a low on the wall like a beam and everybody would hit it. I was just like the thing. And I remember thinking,

God, this is fucking weird. One day I'm going to have to write a book about how fucking weird this is. It's been, yeah, eight or ten. And then I like hit the thing and I walked down the hallway. It was really lonely. If you have a fever,

you are in a communal setting so you are put into quarantine. I don't know if the doors are locked or not but you can't leave. And you are there 24 hours. You don't have a parent there to make you soup. imagine prison where they sort of bring you a tray of food from the cafeteria and then they leave.

So I've definitely spent five days in basically complete solitude with 102 degree fever. And I wasn't rich. A lot of these people at this school were like really legitimately rich. And every Friday you had to dress up and they had a new outfit every Friday and I had three outfits. I had to rotate. And then I'd wear my roommate's skirt. My legs are long. So I'd get sent to ethics because it was like too short.

even though I told them that's totally fucking unfair. She wore it last Friday. I'm sorry, my legs are long. What are you going to do? After my father died and I give my mother a lot of grace here, she fell apart. We used to have dinner on the table at six every night. She didn't cook again for years.

You're married 18 years and then your husband just dies at 47 one day. There's better ways to handle it, but I don't know the right way. So she was like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to be an actress, which is a very normal thing, I think, to want when you're in Scientology. So we moved to L.A. My mom got a job. And then her plan was to go to Florida. And she was going to adopt me to her friend of 14 years old. That was like going to be given to this

lady. This poor lady had polio as a child and walked with a limb. And I was ruthless. For several months, I ran the lady out because I did not want my mother to give me to her. And my mom flew to Florida. She was gone for months. And she left me alone. And I had a boyfriend who was not a Scientologist. He turned out to be a great guy, but like, girl, it's a miracle on a lot. And we did meet some people on Venice Beach that made hemp jewelry. And I let them move in. They adopted cats named Renan Hemphi. But they're how old? I was 14. And I was living in this house in Sunland, big four bedroom, big oak trees. My father had died. So we had insurance money. I had a debit card. I could take $300 a day out.

which I did pretty consistently. Luckily, again, those people, Jeff and Julie Smith, if you're ever out there, I miss you, find me. They were like guardian angels because they were just like, you live here alone, your mother's doing what? What is happening? That whole experience, it kind of changed me. So I was lucky in this sense that I was spit out into the world and the world caught me.

But it did open my mind because I'm like, oh, wow, y'all are cool. This is rad. Like all this other stuff is super stressful. Why are we doing all this other Scientology stuff when we could be chilling? I like the chilling thing. Let's do that. I actually also attempted to kill myself at 14. I got like really drunk.

We were hosting a wedding. Bad situation. And my mom said we're moving to Oregon. I have a 1,300 acre timber ranch that I own with family and I'm going to get you the hell out of L.A. Was this after your brother had passed? No. It was before. And sadly, for a long time, I thought maybe I had given him the idea.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what, and she just believes us there? I told you. I told you. You did, Liz. You did. And I didn't believe you. That's where we're going to leave you guys as well this week. Sorry, not sorry. We are terrible human beings. Wait. We're terrible. But here's the thing, part two. Mama Bear. Who, Mama Bear's coming out to play.

And if you think you know where this story's going, you most certainly do not. Neither do you. No, I don't. Surprise here, too. I can't wait for next week. We find out what happened to her brother. We find out what made Liz say no more and walk away from everything,

her family, her inheritance, even her home. And of course, the fact that when I first got pregnant, my stepfather said to me and my husband, your child will be a fourth generation Scientologist, whether you like it or not. That is verbatim. And this part is important. We find out what Scientology is doing right now

to get into families, to get into children today in 2006. There'll be names you'll recognize, places that might surprise you. Liz Gale's not just telling her story. She's sounding an alarm. You're definitely going to want to hear episode too. so if you haven't yet, please subscribe, follow however your app does it.

So you don't miss part two next week out. What happened? You okay? I just hit my elbow. Where did it happen? My elbow on the table? And where are you now? I'm in the same spot as before.

Earlier, similar? Well, in 1987 I was a medieval night, actually. I fell off a horse. elbowed myself in the dick. It was weird, but I learned my lesson. And you forgot to say thank you. Now you're pushing it, Tyler. Now you're pushing it.

I'm not saying thank you to you. But I do want to say thank you to you, our listeners. If you guys want to support our show even more, get earlier episodes with similar, add free content and love that isn't bound by conditions. The love is real. Love is very real. You can find us on our Patreon.

The link is in our show notes. Our Patreon people. Hey guys, shout out. Keep this show going and we love you for it. We really do, including some of our newest badasses. Suppressed. And I don't use that word lightly for signing up on Patreon. Like Shayla Ramsey.

Vladus Sonega. Evie Joy. Emily Hove. And Stella Newman. Also. I heard Stella got her groove back recently. Also, we. We love getting messages from people.

Please send us emails. We got a number this week. Harry Todd gave me a bit of a... Give me a bit of a reprimand. Maybe rightfully so. She said that during your episode, when you were talking about how men can't change and I countered it immediately,

she was like, you, Liz was vulnerable and you didn't need to like cut her off. And I swallowed it and said, yeah, probably I shouldn't have. But it was a little different because you're my co-host as opposed to an interviewer. or a guest, you know what I mean? You didn't handle my story with the kind of care that we do on this show, I think, is what she's trying to say. But, yeah, and I explained that, because I was like, but she's my co-host.

So it's, I, you know, we kind of have that repertoire that, yes. But she sent a nice message. And I, I sent her back. You're welcome, yes. Oh, well, look at that. Look at us. Earlier, similar. Yes.

Our feeling. Thank you, Carrie, for looking out for your girl. I appreciate it. Don't worry. I got Tyler. She did start it with Tyler, I love you, but. You always have to worry when that comes out. I love you, but.

But shut the fuck up. Basically, is what it was. Tyler, I love you, but now's not the time. Lori Spanner also told us to watch the Jody Hildren doc. On Netflix. So we're going to do that. We're going to do that. Maybe we'll watch it and maybe we'll do an episode where we talk about it.

Joe Jacoby, he's from Idaho. He sent a funny email about the Beatles. And how he said that a determiner of being in a cult is not necessarily the bite method. But if you use the term, oh, my Lanta, I said, is that a southern thing? And he goes, no, it's in northern Idaho. So the south and northern Idaho. Perfect. Very similar, except for the weather.

Laura Butler sent a nice note about my episode, so thank you, Laura. She was very nice. And Emily Carter sent us a book of which I will reveal later. So thank you, everyone. Thank you for caring about survivors for us, their stories, and remember. You are not your grandmother reincarnated. Probably. Probably.

I mean, the author's slim. There's always a chance. There's always a chance. Wasanicald is written, hosted, produced, and other things by me, Liz. Suppressive. Ayacuzzi. And me, Tyler, touch the wall, Mesa. Touch the wall.

Say thank you. Say thank you. Thank you, Tylo. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. Sound mix, design, and edit by Rob Blue Potato Perra. This is better than a dumb fucking potato.

Your favorite color is Chartreuse, Rob. Thank you, everyone. for listening. We'll be back next week. Listen up, campers. It's time to buckle up, pitch a tent, and take a hike. This is Camp Counselor's Podcasts. With Zachariah Porter. And Jonathan Carson.

Consider this podcast your new favorite variety show. Where the badges mean nothing. And the drama means everything. Is this podcast even about camping? No, but it is camp. We cover everything. I have a theory that a chicken finger is the perfect chaser for a tequila shot. No, because at the end of the day, I was a child actor who fell victim.

to an audition scam. I'm going to be vulnerable for a second. Have you ever had to shop in a husky section at a department store? Then I don't want to hear it. Honestly, I can't talk about this anymore. I'm overstimulated and I'm bloated. From weird news and our current obsessions to hot gossip and listeners submitted confessions. Nothing is off limits at this camp.

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