Was I In A Cult? - Scientology—Pt2: "Not Today, Xenu"

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Her stepfather told her: "Your child will be a fourth generation Scientologist whether you like it or not." That was the threat. This is the fight.In Part 2, Liz Gale tells us what happened to her brother - and what finally made her walk away from everything. Her family. Her inheritance. Land her ancestors homesteaded on the Oregon Trail. All of it. Gone. Because she finally said… Oh, hell no. You got me, but you don’t get my kids. This episode is a warning. Scientology is still ever-present. They're in your kids' schools. They're hiding behind interfaith councils and "study technology." And the biggest thing standing in their way? Apparently mothers who trust their intuition. Mama bears, this one's for you.FOLLOW US For more culty content - follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacultFOLLOW LIZ GALE Find Liz on TikTok → @liz_liz_gale_gale & Instagram. Her book Confessions of an Ex-Scientologist Pothead is available now.SUPPORT THE SHOWRate, review, share. Join us on Patreon for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations.HAVE A CULTY STORY?Email us → [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Before we begin, this episode contains discussions of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline by calling or texting 988. You are not alone.

When I first got pregnant, my stepfather said to me and my husband, your child will be a fourth generation Scientologist, whether you like it or not. That is verbatim. And I don't know. Maybe the hormones just took a minute to build, or maybe it took me eight years to finally get there. But there was like a little bit of mama bear that was ignited with that statement. And I wasn't strong enough to do anything about it at that time. I don't know.

Something in me just kind of like, no, you can't have him. Welcome back, our friends. Our friends, my friends, they're mine. Can I join? Can I just hang out with your friends for a little bit? You can be in our cult. You can be. Come on in, Tyler. Just watch from the sidelines and make a fool of myself. This is was I in a cult and I am Liz Ayakuzi. And I'm Tyler Misum, the fifth wheel, apparently of this. And this is part two of our conversation with Liz Gail, the friendly and messy third generation ex-scientologist. Was it our conversation, Tyler? Which conversation? Who's conversation? You said this is part two of our conversation.

No, it was your conversation with her, but again, I was hanging around listening to it, just like everyone else. Hey, everybody, if you have not listened to Part 1, go back now, please. Yeah, don't pass Go. Don't collect 200. Or if you're David Miscavage, don't collect your $40,000 auditing package from all of your followers. I am saving up. Last week, we learned that our guest, Liz, was raised to believe that she was, It feels weird to Stephen saying it, but that she was her own grandmother reincarnated.

So her mother believed, sorry again, I got to take a second. So her mother believed that she was raising her own mother. Correct. Mother's Day must have been very confusing in that house. Like, happy Mother's Day, Mom. You too, Mom. Yeah, got me a card.

I don't even know what it is anymore. Liz, not our Liz, the other Liz, was sent to a Scientology's elite board. school at the age of eight. She was abandoned at 14, and around that time, something else devastating happened, which we didn't have time for last week. But before we dive into that, a little more insane dogma from this insane cult that somehow still passes as a religion.

To whom, though? To whom is it a religion? To the people. To the people that go there. They go to church. They go to the church. I would dare say, mass majority of people out there. If you said name a cult, I would say 90% off the top of their head would say

psychology. You would think and then you learn what we learn today. And it is still actively recruiting. Yep. Many, many, many people. Yeah, it's a religion, a religion that makes a lot of money. You know, my 2006 goal was to learn guitar, but perhaps I should have shifted it to start a religion. I mean, tax-free income sounds kind of nice. It's not a dumb idea. So if part one was about how Scientology breaks the mother and child bond, part two is about how one badass mom said, not today, Zeno.

Just the name Zinu sounds, it just sounds like a 10-year-old would name Zinu in his ciph. in their video game. Yeah. Zeno. I am Zeno. Yeah, you are. Wait, I think you just discovered when Zeno was created in his 10-year-old journal.

Yeah. Ooh, you're a scary Zeno. Who is Zeno the monster? I am Robot Zeno. All right. So if last week was where did it happen, today is where are you now? Nice call back, Tyler. Let's get into it, shall we?

A lot of people think medicine is not allowed in Scientology. They believe that all illness comes from a spiritual situation. So if you get cancer, it is because you have a trauma in the family. Your vision goes bad. It's because you stole. I had to get glasses at 10. I'm like writing every time I stole. Every time I thought about stealing, I'm like making crap up.

Like, I don't want to wear glasses. Didn't work. Anyway, I broke my arm and I got surgery. However, though, psychoactive medications, anything that affects your mood or your mental health is a strict no-no. It will ruin you potentially for eternity. And you will become what is called an illegal PC, which means you're no-will-received will receive Scientology auditing. Anytime you get sick in Scientology, whether you're 2 or you're 22 or you're 102, you are what's called PTSD. You're a potential trouble source, which means somebody is, quote, suppressing you in your life.

It has to be a who. Who is it? And at some point, you'll get on an e-meter. I'll keep asking you who it is until the e-meter confirms who it is. And, well, it was Paul such and such. None of this was weird to me. It was just like the way it is. Everything is so freaking heavy. You know, it's always something so much more than it needs to be. Right. The only way to ever solve it is to pay money to Scientology to get this fixed. There was a woman named Lisa McPherson in the 90s. And she was doing Scientology a lot. She was very active in the community. She got into a fender bender. She took off all her clothes. She started acting crazy. Scientology scooped her up, took her to their headquarters, kept her there for like, I don't know, 17 or 19 days, treated her awful.

She passed away, didn't get her medical help, all this stuff. After that happened, they'll never tell you not to go to the doctor. They cannot. What they will do is they will sell you a $40,000 spiritual package to go along with that doctor to really get to the root of the problem.

$40,000. Often, yeah, so auditing is bought in intensive, 12-hour chunks. Depends on where you're getting it. But it's around $5,000. If you fell and broke your arm like I did, you need this. You don't want to fall and break your arm again, do you? So chances are you're really messed up and it's going to cost more than 12 hours. You want to unravel your whole track?

You think it's going to take 12 hours to talk about all your cavemen stories and shit? Girl, you need a while. Right. You can take a long time. We got neons to discuss at this point. So gross. As far as the wealth goes, in Scientology, they have a saying. It's that we make the able more able.

And so success, one could look at it as a form of being able. Rich is always the goal. It's a hustle culture, right? So it's like, if they ever recruit you for a course and you're like, I just, I don't have $10,000 right now. We can get a credit card for you because if you take this next step, money is just energy. It's going to come back to you tenfold. So it's like the people who are wealthier, that's the dream. He also says like, have all the babies. Want so many members.

Santology doesn't even have that approach. They're like, just bring us your rich ones. Right. Like one billionaire is worth like a bunch of these dumb kids that are going to be a problem and then speak out one day and write a book. Money is considered like an earth credit. It's kind of a reflection of how well you're doing. But it also is a reflection of the game you're playing. So, if I was going to recruit you into the C-Orgization, I would say something like, there's no bigger game than saving the world with Scientology. There's nothing that trumps that.

Money is not the game you're going to play. The game you're going to play is to clear the planet. And the best way to do that is to join the C-org. But then you have Tom Cruise. He's just playing a different game. The game he's playing is to be the number one disseminator of Scientology in the universe, and that is because he's just his cool-ass self. And he's like, go Scientology.

How much was your family giving a year to Scientology? Oh, a year? I can't say. I mean, my mom combined with my father and my stepfather, I don't know, 6,700,000 maybe more over their lives. Yeah. I know that on my behalf personally, over 150,000 has been spent for sure. A lot of that on what we call life repair. Yeah, a girl does not like a breakup.

Let me tell you what. Every breakup I've ever had in my life has cost me like $45,000. I didn't really know Scientology had all these boarding schools. So tell us where it is. You said it was run like a military. What is this place like? Okay. Well, there is only one.

This is the one. This is the posh. This is the best. Like Tom Cruise's niece and nephew went to the school at John Travolta's kids have done time at the school. It is set in a big brick building up on 800 acres. It's like an old Catholic mom. Is monastery for monks? Anyways, it was a monk place, right?

So cool architecture, at least. It was started in the 70s. I'm going to talk about it when my family knew it, because it has evolved over the years. When my family knew it, it was for Scientologists to give their children this perfect environment. Also, it frees up your parents to do lots and lots of Scientology. To make that big money, make that bag, baby,

you've got to play that Scientology. But what it also does is your children have no TV. They have no outside influence. They have no neighborhood block to play on where other kids are other religions or say weird things. Everybody's quiet when you scrape your knee and you can trust that.

You can trust that your child is an environment where every single person on that campus is trained that if they fall and they scrape their knee, every single person will be quiet and they will get a contact assist or they will be asked. Where are you? It happened and where are you now? I'll save you guys $47,000.

I'll just follow you all around and say that. They do have a lot of international students now at Delphi. That's the name of the school. It's like the Delphian or the Delphian Academy. You can be in the know. You can call it Delphi like me. Is this the school I called? Hold on.

I'm sure it is. It's like the Scientology School. But they say they're not Scientology. Right. Oh my God. This has to be the school I called. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure.

So back in the day, they didn't hide it. Now, times have evolved. They do not say that they are Scientology. This is who I called. Yeah. This is the one who told me he's Jewish too. Oh my God. Okay.

That's where I grew up. That's where I grew up and where my brother graduated from. Yep. That's it. Okay. So guys, I was a bit slow on the uptake during the interview, but yes, for Jamie Mustard's episode, which we aired, I think, last June, we discussed the Delphian School in Oregon. And that, what you just heard was me in real time putting those pieces together. Liz did call the school.

She actually literally called the school last June, and she spoke with the man who presumably handles admissions. And here is what I said about it back then. You just don't want to tell us now. You're just so lazy. You're just going to recycle what we already did. Just insert whatever I said in Jamie's episode and place it here now. Thank you.

Side note, I actually called the school. I dialed admissions. I spoke to a guy. He was actually really nice. I posed as a parent. with a child with potential interest in attending the school. And I asked him about the philosophy and if the school was part of Scientology. And he said, and I quote, truthfully no, but it gets glommed in because there's a gentleman

named Hubbard who many years ago discovered Dianetic Scientology and started to experience certain observations about learning, study, classrooms, etc. And then he did lectures on a great way to start a school, some study concepts, use the dictionary, gradients, lots of physical representation, other things, and a professor at Stanford, who was studying the religion, stepped aside and said, I want to start a school with these concepts. So that's the basic connection. No specific spiritual adherence is done at the school. There's a lot more to it, but that's the basic answer. So yeah, that's what he said about the school, but you listeners are a little more queued in because of our guest, Liz Gail. He also did say, which I found very strange, and now Liz

explains it, that you don't have to be a Scientologist to be at the school, that he himself is Jewish and Scientology. Yeah, you don't have to be Scientologist, but you can give us your money. That's basically saying, but you're going to be Scientology after your time here. Eventually. More on this fresh Scientology tactic in a bit. Now, as we've mentioned before, I love to cook. The downside buying ingredients. For example, The recipe calls for half a cup of sour cream, so you buy the whole top, and the rest just sits in the fridge. Just watching you, judging you, making you feel bad for wasting it eventually becoming a science experiment. And that's why Marley Spoon is a kick-ass service.

They send you exactly what you need, right? There's no waste. There's no fridge guilt. No fuzzy lid three weeks later. And Marley Spoon makes it ridiculously easy to cook real meals that actually taste good. And I've been loving. this a lot. I feel like... Yeah, you're in week, what, three, week three now, right? I think I'm in week five. Week five. Wow. Liz, you're regular. Nice. I'm in. Yeah. The flavors are not bland. They give you

very delicious dressings and sauces. Yeah. And they have 100 recipes, over 100 recipes to choose every week. What'd you make last week? What did you make? So two I really loved was the Martha's best cilantro lime grilled chicken. Okay. And some other chicken thigh, like, sheet pan thing. It was really good. Everyone loved it. Even my three-year-old ate it. Like, that is a hard thing to get him to do if it's not a snack.

Yeah. Why do kids want snacks for dinner? What's for dinner? Snacks! Snacks! Maybe because you give him snacks. No, I don't. I'm saying if I did, he would be happy with just individual packaged X for dinner every single night.

Well, don't. Do Marley Spoon. And it's affordable, which right now is very important. Yes, it is. We probably should have led with that. But you know, it's even better than cheap? What, Liz? Free.

Free. I am a soccer for free. I love free stuff. How do I give free stuff? You head to marlyspoon.com slash offer slash cult for up to 25 free meals. That's right, up to 25 free meals with Mr. Marley and Mrs. Spoon. that's marley spoon.com

slash offer slash cult for up to 25 free meals. They want to make sure you guys don't forget the slash offer before you slash cult. You guys are smart. You'll figure it out. Slash eat slash just do it slash eat well. That's not actually right. Save time. Now they're going to get confused.

Okay, keep going. Keep going. At the time that we went there was $47,000 a year. I think $70 something a year now. So when it first started, it was. was like pure, pure, pure, pure, pure Scientology. Guess what? That's a dying business model. And it is highly controversial. They have since rebranded several times.

And now they do this thing where they say, we are not Scientology. The boarding school, it's not just academics. You are literally raising these children. So how do they deal with behavior modification? Oh, I don't know. Elron Hubbard, ethics. How do they deal with social interactions? Oh, I don't know.

Maybe Elrin Hubbard, ethics. How do they deal with sick children on campus? I'll give you one guess. We follow Elron Hubbard's study technology and some of his philosophies. That's one of those things where if you don't know, you don't know, but then if you know, you're like, you're lying. I know you're lying because I speak your stupid language. There are a lot of stories of people who grew up in this organization.

Their parents dedicated their lives of Scientology, signed the billion year contracts, worked 100 hours a week for no pay, no vacation, and their children were raised. in horrible conditions. One thing to note is because of critics, you can't have kids in the sea organization anymore. So those dorms don't exist anymore. Thank goodness. But they're still seeking this indoctrination for children

for using front groups. Or they're playing this game. It's called safe pointing. It's a real Scientology term where you use safe point, where you basically pick one person and you get them okay with Scientology. And that creates a safe point, like a boop on a map. And then from there, you're going to spread out more safety.

And eventually, you're going to fill in that whole map, right? That is a literal term, safe pointing. And in order for these schools to keep going the way they have, they've had to safe point their technology and present it in a way that is not controversial, that is not attached to Scientology. I'm sorry, if your religion is so controversial that you don't want people to know about it, that's a problem. And it's sad when parents send their kids there.

You don't know. Especially because we are on the West Coast. So a lot coming over for boarding school in the United States from Asian countries. They don't know. And then they're sold this. Oh, we just follow Elron Hubbard these little tiny bits. Yeah, but what are you going to do when my child falls and scrapes their knee at your school? And these are the questions that I need mothers to know.

Because what is the most dangerous thing? It's a mom saying, what are you going to do when my kid scrapes their knee? That's it. That's all it even takes. We're going to do a contact assist. And then we're going to get them to write up to find out why they, quote, pulled this in why this happened to them. And if that doesn't solve it, then we're going to find out who's suppressing them. And it might be you, mom, because you might be against them getting into

Scientology. Yeah, it's sinister. Then you throw one more level of deception on there, one more big level. Scientology has been playing this game where you can be any religion and a Scientologist. And probably when you called the school and they're like, I'm Jewish and I'm fine, they're okay. That is safe pointing. They create interfaith councils because there is power in religion, especially in the United States. If you come to Scientology, you say no more kids in Scientology, they're going to go to their Catholic buddies and their Jewish buddies. And they're saying, these crazy want us to stop teaching our kids religion. Are you going to stand for that? But we're not actually saying that to you. We're saying to you, you can't actually put a child on an e-meter and ask them 99 questions

and interrogate them, which I don't think any Catholic priest or normal person would think is a good idea. call it like meat shields. They kind of like get these other groups before them. Scientology's had 70 years to fine tune their lies and manipulation. And I'd love to say because their numbers are getting smaller that they're failing, but they actually seem to be just getting sneaky. So that is how I believe Scientology is evolving and how it is still managing to be a threat and why I do keep talking about it. Are you close with your brother growing up? Yes and no. He went to boarding school when I was four. We did smoke some pot together once when I was 14.

And he told me about some of the things he'd discovered about Scientology. But when I think about somebody being close to their brother, I think about, I don't know, he was like, live in the same house. And they'll make fun of you because you, I don't know, live in the same house. Yeah, you're on top of each other. You're fighting. Yeah. And he was a very specific guy. Like, he was very sarcastic.

I almost feel like he was Seattle grunge before it was cool. It was funny, though, because you know how your siblings always bring you back to who you really are? Like, sure, you're a big time lawyer. You're a big celebrity. Like, you're still just my little brother. Like, you're still just a punk. And it was really interesting because when we were in Utah, my brother got hired at the same company my dad did. He was a genius.

So at 15 or not even, 13, 14, he was already getting hired by software companies. They were, I don't want to say exploiting, but they were using his expertise. He was fluent in, I don't know, 16 computer languages. He was a very smart guy. Smart in computer language anyway. And in my book, I joke, I'm like, oh, you were the genius, Phil, but who's alive now? Who's alive now? Okay.

So there. Sorry, I guess that's a spoiler to everybody. All jokes aside. My brother actually did end up tragically, as they say on TikTok, unaliving himself, that type of upbringing to be separated from your mother, to be sent to Scientology boarding school, to be indoctrinated heavily your entire life does not end. Well, it did not for him.

How old were you? 15. And do you want to share how he did it or what happened? Yes, sure. I should probably back up, though, to add one more layer of tragedy to the story. Our father passed away very suddenly at 47. Her aneurysm, boom, done.

very young, very unexpected. At the time that he passed away, he and my brother were at odds against Scientology. I actually had to do with cannabis. My brother was experimenting with cannabis at that time, and my father was very against it, which is another reason that I talked about cannabis in my book. Gotcha brother. So I laughed to blow off a little steam here. He died suddenly, and that really haunted my brother.

And the only tools that he was ever given for any time. of outlet for mental health for grief recovery was Scientology. And at that point, he had pretty much rejected it, so he was kind of left with nothing. And at one point, he went out on a limb and he talked to an anti-Scientologist journalist who did a series in the Boston Globe. And he didn't name my brother, but a week after those articles came out, my brother committed suicide. He did it on Elron Hubbard's birthday, which is one of Scientology's, quote, religious holidays. And he went up to the 15th story of a campus building and he smashed a chair through the window, wrote the mathematical equation of his body times a velocity times the distance, signed it, Phil was here, and then jumped out

the window. That's how a true genius commits suicide. I mean, go beg. It still feels surreal. And I have to admit, I mean, for years, I would be downtown. I would count stories on buildings, you know, how. tall as 15. Oregon, we don't have a lot of buildings at our 15 stories. So whenever I would see one, I'd be like, oh. Yeah. Okay. So immediately after he died, there was online speculation about

critics being a part of it. My mother posted a little bit online. It turned into a scandal. Because my mother was this national spokesperson for CCHR, Citizens Commission on Human Rights. She was anti-Prosak, anti-psychmeds, anti-mental health. Then she has a a child who very dramatically commits suicide on Elron Hubbard's birthday. As you can imagine, that's not a good look. And this story right here is a part of why I realized I can't push my mother into realizing all these things. This is tragic. Shit. Like she's 70. First place I read my brother's suicide note was on Wikipedia because I was too scared to look on any antipsychology or look him up at all. And then my friend had the first iPad. And I was like,

this is cool. And then I got to his Wikipedia page and I was like, here's my brother Swiss I know it on Wikipedia. Cool. Welcome to my lie. Yeah. So Liz Gale wrote a book called Confessions of an ex-Scientologist pothead. And so this ad is for you, Liz. When it comes to to THC, me personally, I'm a bit of a lightweight, but after a long day of being deep in cold trauma, my brain just won't stop. So sometimes I like to take a nice half of a gummy or quarter gummy stress relief gummy from indecloud indecloud is your fully legal online cannabis dispensary they've got feel good gummies exotic flour premium pre-rolls and now even higher intensity zero sugar t hc soda i like to take a nice you know stress relief gummy half of a gummy quarter gummy

have a nice chill evening no empty calories no hangover just relaxing i feel good so if you're 21 or older into cloud.co and use our code in a cult for 35% off the entire month. That's indecloud.com. Don't forget our code in a cult. You will get 35% off. It ships discreetly, directly to your door. And unlike Scientology, it won't cost you $45,000 to make you feel better. Enjoy responsibly and a big thank you to Indicloud for supporting the show and supporting my calm evening. So now Liz has lost both her father and her brother, and then her mother abandoned her to go to Scientology land in Florida. I would dare say if there is a Scientology land or dying Scientology world, it would be in the Orlando-Kissimme area of Florida. As you guys may recall from last week, she did get a boyfriend and was saved by good old Jeff and Julie, those hippies who sold hemp jewelry down on Venice Beach that she just let move into her.

her house because, I don't know, it was the 90s and you could do that kind of thing without getting murdered. And she was still just a kid, though, at that time. She was still trying to figure out how to survive on her own. So I got my GED in L.A. because my mother had left and she was like, you're going to graduate high school. So I did that. Then we moved to Oregon and it was such a shit show. In order to get me out of California, she had to move my boyfriend and that couple, Jeff and Julie. We all caravanned up because I wouldn't go. She paid. them to drive up with us and to help get settled. And they were like, are you good? And I was like, I don't fucking know. And they're like, okay, we got to go. I was like, that's fine.

I'll leave the Scientology girl in Oregon. Yeah. And they like took their little cats, Renan Hemphy. I was like, bye. See ya. In Oregon, though, I mean, I chilled out. It was the middle of nowhere. I used to walk around the woods and scream, literally. It was probably the best thing for me. I think that's one thing that my mom did probably good for me is get me out of L.A. and put me in nature. And then I started community college. So I moved into the dorms in Cousbay, Oregon at 15. And I lied to everybody.

I told them I was 17. But my birthday's in November. So before I knew it, I was 18. And I was a feral child. So I actually got three minor in possessions of alcohol, got kicked out of the dorms, got an apartment right off campus, became pretty much the coolest person ever, because I don't know if you experienced this,

but the people who have the apartment right next to campus, it's pretty fun. I failed some community. college classes and then I found early childhood education. And I think that probably saved my life because I was so sure for so many years that if I could just help kids like zero to five, then maybe I could make the world a better place. I graduated my associates at 19 in early childhood education, became a preschool teacher. And then it took me under six years to finish my four year degree. So I was kind of in and out of Scientology during that time. But the more

that I took classes in early childhood education and child and family studies, the more I started to understand how dangerous and how messed up Scientology was. Even after Psychology 101, I was just like, wait, what? And I mean, thank goodness for me. Like my personality is outward. Like, I'll ask questions. So I'm the idiot in class who's just like, oh, wait, that's abuse. Everyone's looking at me like, why are you talking about interrogating children? Where the fuck did you come from? There was a study once, I remember learning about how you can show really healthy attachment in children. Like they'll go off and explore, but they'll look back to get a cue from their caregiver. Okay, you're still there.

You're safe. But that just really got me thinking. Like this idea that the goal is to have healthy attachment and bonding and have your child see you as a safe place to form identity and to make mistakes and to try things. I mean, it sounds also probably so stupid to say out loud. But I kind of went to college to find out. that when a kid gets hurt, they need to be held. They need empathy shown to them.

And yeah, like, I was the one who's like, oh, oh, that's okay. Like, it's okay. I can tell the kid it's okay. Why did your mom let you go to college? Aren't you not supposed to go to college if you're in Scientology? There's this weird double standard because in Scientology, the belief is that children are adults in little bodies. And so it's very common for teenagers to get emancipated, to just,

join the Seorg to drop out of school, to start work, because there's this idea that, like, you're perfectly capable to do these things. And, you know, in some parts, that's true. But I don't think my mom ever really wanted me around all the time. Think about it. I was gone from eight years old on. Then I graduated 14. Then I move into the college dorms at 15. And then I get my own apartment at 16. When did you meet your husband? My husband and I met when I was 22 when he was 21, got pregnant six weeks after meeting. Do not recommend. Now that we're here, I'll give it five out of five stars, but the process was really rough.

Scientologist, how'd you meet? No, we were neighbors. He was hot, and I took one look at him, and I said, I'm going to have that guy's baby. I didn't mean to think that, but the thought happened, which I was later told is why I got pregnant. I was in college, and I was working full-time as a preschool teacher. But you're still in Scientology. Yeah, but I wasn't really doing much.

I joined staff at Scientology at 19. And then I was like, I don't like this. I'm going back to school. And right when I got out, I got a medium job, and then I got a job as a preschool teacher, and I stayed there for almost 10 years. Honestly, a school environment, I just love it. I love the families.

I love watching the kids grow. I love that everybody's there for a good reason. Like the most empathetic people healed my heart in so many ways and taught me a different way to be. It doesn't have to be all Navy and military and punitive. Yeah. blew my mind. One of the basic principles of early childhood education is that children learn through play.

Everybody knows this, I guess. I didn't know this. Play had no value. Only production had value. And this concept lifted the weight of the world off of my shoulders. Like, wait, we can play? No, not only can you play. You set up the entire environment to play.

Your job is to play. So your brother passes. That was maybe the thing that started your questioning. of Scientology in a way. That was for sure the biggest. Yeah, that was the smack across my face. My dad dying, it's like natural causes. His father died young.

When I came to my brother, I was just like, no, this is not supposed to happen. It was a tragedy. In my 20s, I started realizing, like, actually, if my grandma got my family into Scientology and I am my grandma, then isn't it now my responsibility to get us out of Scientology? If I started us on this crazy train, I'm the conductor, and then I bail out and the train still going. I got to pull one of those movies where you jump on the train and stop the engine real quick. And so how do you eventually get out of this thing? I moved back to my family land, which again was the closest I'd been living to my mother. I didn't live in the same town as my mother for any

extended period of time since I was eight. That's crazy. Yeah, I know. And it took some getting used to. Again, we didn't live in the same house. Turns out, she's not the warm and cozy mom that I had hoped that I would find later on. It just, that's not her. So when my son was eight. She really started taking an interest all of a sudden. It was weird. She was like, I want to take him to Florida. I want to take him to Disney World. I was like, this is weird, mom. You're being weird. And of course, the fact that when I first got pregnant, my stepfather said to me and my husband, your child will be a fourth generation Scientologist, whether you like it or not. That is verbatim. And I don't know. Maybe the hormones just took a minute to build, or maybe it took me

eight years to finally get there. But there was like a little bit of mama bear that was ignited with that statement and I wasn't strong enough to do anything about it at that time. But when you are there and they're eight and they're a beautiful baby boy still and they look just like my brother and they're tall and they've got red hair and they have the potential of every beautiful thing in the world coming their way, I don't know. Something in me is just kind of like, no, you can't have him. And then of course, you say no and that's a problem. And so that snowballed into eventually losing my home, my job, my, it sounds braddy, my inheritance, but my family came across on the Oregon Trail. They homesteaded land. It was always supposed to go down to my boys. And we lost that

because according to my mother, I rejected our family legacy. And I'll do it again. I do it again tomorrow. Because now, in goodness for hindsight, my son is in his second year of college. He has the life that I would have, if I could go back in time and be like, you know what, in 20 years, you're going to have gone through hell, but your son, he's going to be in a band and he's going to have a girlfriend and he's going to be in college and he's going to be smart and kind and good. Like, I don't know. I don't even know if I would have believed it. You know? And to have that, I feel like I've won. And my ancestors on the Oregon Trail. If I could go back and tell them one day, I'm going to lose everything. I'm so sorry. I'm going to lose what you're working for right now because I'm going to reject our family legacy. But I'm going to take such good care of your great-grandson. I promise you that. And maybe I fucked it up when I was grandma. Maybe I fucked it up. Maybe that was me. And maybe I screwed up real bad. I'm so sorry, but I'm going to make it right this time. And that's kind of all I've got. So I'll hold on to that.

And that does actually help me sleep at night. Yeah. What was the final action of severing it all? The final action, because it is a high crime in Scientology to publicly depart Scientology. So I had privately, but my final, I think, biggest thing was honestly when I chose to really speak out publicly. And I was really lucky in that I was given a pretty big platform right off the bat by going on the Lear Remney Scientology. Aftermath show. That was shortly after you had left or how many years?

I was still living on my family property when I filmed that. So I was, I don't know what the right words are. Like I wasn't practicing and I was out. I had been kicked out, but I hadn't left yet kind of thing. They had sold the property. When your mom wanted to take him to Disneyland and all, that's when it was like. Yes, it was a cover. And I was like, well, you could potentially take him, but you can't take him to flag.

You can't take him to Scientology. And she was like, that's just my church. Why wouldn't I be able to take him to my church? Like your other grandma, when she babysit, like, he's been to Sunday school before. So you leave the property. You have to give up your business. You move into where? We moved into a, I think it was, I can't remember how big it was.

I want to say 38 feet travel trailer on some farmland. So you were homeless. Yeah, basically. And I was so fucking traumatized. I was so traumatized. There was other family also that I thought would have my back and didn't. And your mom just. turned her back on you. Just, yeah, my stepdad told them much of lies about us. It was pretty brutal.

That's how it goes in Scientology, right? Like, it's one day. One day you wake up and everybody just owns you. They got the memo. The text went out. And once they decided to sell the property because I wasn't going to raise my kids in Scientology, they weren't going to be worthy because they weren't going to be in Scientology, I almost feel like I hit a depression where I almost didn't even care anymore. Like, I got pretty low. I mean, I was going to therapy. crying, having panic attacks. I'm going to lose my mom. I know I'm going to lose my mom. And my therapist was like, all right, let's just focus on every day, try to make the best relationship. I threw her this big party. I tried so, so hard to keep it out of the conversation, but it just couldn't happen.

And then at one point, I went up to my parents' house and I was talking to them about when my mom left me in Florida, when she was going to adopt me out. And I was like, hey, like, that fucking sucked. And I said to her, I said, what kind of religion would let a woman give her child up for adoption so that she could go give her life up. Like, who would do this? My mom turned to me and she goes, actually, it was the church that made me come back. And I think at that point, like, my heart just stopped. I think that was when I was just like, oh, you really don't, like, it was never actually

about me. There's really nothing I could do. I'm not going to be able to change your path. I don't need to convince you. I just need to get the fuck out of here. And I need to take my sons with me. Luckily, that conversation happened and my in-laws were at my house. And when I came home after that conversation with my mom crying, my mother-in-law was there to hold me.

And that's a great consolation prize. When did you know it was a cult? Ironically, the first time I ever learned the word cult was from Scientology's own publication. They came out with a big book called What Is Scientology? Which was going to be like the dissemination tool and everybody had to memorize certain parts of it. And one of the questions is, is Scientology a cult? And the answer was no, but in Scientology, you can't go by a word you don't understand without clearing it in the dictionary. It's a crime. So I had to go look up the word cult in the dictionary. And it turns out it's a closed group with secret teachings and secrets. And I was like, well, actually, I just cleared the word. Like, technically we are a cult? And I always thought that was really weird that they were like, we're not a cult. And that was the first time I was like, are we? I don't even know what this is, but you're saying we're not. And I'm pretty sure that we fit the definition. And going on the show, like, what gave you the balls, the vagina?

FOMO. Was it affirming, if you will? Are you kidding me? It was best timing ever because it flew out to the ranch. But the property had already sold technically by then. So I literally could not have a bigger fuck you. Just boom, right in your face. Oh, yeah?

You're going to treat me like this? Well, I'm going to get an Emmy Award winning show, the number one suppressive person in the world to come here and we'll tell. this family's legacy. So that was nice in a petty kind of vindictive way. You got to get your vindication somehow from these. I know. You never do. So you got to take it from where you get it. And so then you lived in the trailer. How did you rebuild to today? You know, it's so crazy is that we didn't have any prospects. We had a little bit of savings, but because we had been in the cannabis industry and we had no rental history, my family wasn't going to vouch. Actually, it was another

ex-scientologist. I put up a go-fund me one day out of desperation. It was just like, I have no way to get out of this trailer. I got to get the out of here. And so another ex-Santologist actually reached out and helped us. He bought the house we're living in. We paid him rent. Part of what we paid, he put into an account for us. And then we were able to purchase our house based on that agreement. And that, I got a tattoo in my hand to always remember, yes, being the recipient of that, but that I want to be that person for other people one day. And he changed our lives and I know he's changed other people's lives. And honestly, after losing so much, I didn't really remember the good in the world.

Like, the real good. Because I've seen good and I think a lot of Scientologists are good. Like they want to do something good. It's just that how it turns out is pretty shitty a lot of the time. I felt like I was in the middle of like a real life miracle. And it just helped also remind me there are good people. And you can't expect the world to catch you when you fall, but it's not the empty rabbit hole, never-ending cesspool that they say it will be if you give up Scientology. What was the hardest thing to unlearn in your deprogramming? If I'm really being honest at the end of the day, what I need to unlearn is a core value belief of needing to do X, Y, Z to get love. I'd probably be a healthier and happier human being if my core belief was that I am worthy of love just because I exist. And I'm getting there and I'm working on that.

And part of how I feel like I do that is I try to make sure that the developing humans around me get that message 100% of the time. And that's how it is in preschool teaching. Like, you're never bad. The behavior is the problem. It's never the person. There's nothing wrong with a two-year-old. They might even bite somebody or hit. We're just figuring out where this energy goes.

And like that grace was never afforded to me. So if I could remove that step, that mental work that I have to do to apply that to myself, that would be the best thing to unlearn. One day I'll get there. I'll just be like a crazy nine-year-old, just like rollerblading through town. Just what's that lady? She feels so good. It took me 90 years when I finally got here.

All right. True story. The other day, my little sister says, that she wants to buy new sheets. She wants to splurge on new sheets. She wanted really nice sheets. And I said, you know what? Bolin branch is what I told her.

And she said, that's actually the brand I was looking at. So you know what I did? I told her to use the cult code. She did. She saved 15%. I was the good brother. She's sleeping on genuinely better sheets. Everybody wins.

And when I say better sheets, I know what I'm talking about because I have two sets of Boland branch sheets. I also have their waffel and branch sheets. also have their waffle blanket, which is really cool. So I'm letting you know, we've said it before, but their sheets are great, their blankets are great. And you know what they do? They get softer with every wash. What I love about Bowling Branch is that they just don't look good. They actually are made well. 100% organic cotton. They're breathable. My bed feels better. I sleep longer.

I sleep later. I sleep better. I sleep easier. I sleep. So if you're thinking about upgrading your sleep, do it. Like my sister did, upgrade, use our code, discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with Bowling Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com slash cult. That's Bolandbranch, B-O-L-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash cult, code cult, to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. And mom today. My mother? Yeah.

I think we're going on eight years. I have no communication whatsoever. But don't feel sad about that for me. What is there to say? I think I've come the closest to like forgiveness that I'm going to get. And what that means is that she has her thing. And I have mine. And unfortunately, she was not safe enough to be around my kids.

She would groom them. She would groom them without even meaning to. For a long time, I wanted my mom to get out of Scientology. And I tried. Like, what about this? What about this? And the human trafficking and the slavery and what about this? And she just said, well,

I know they're doing more good than bad. And I kind of saw in her that it would probably break her to have to come to terms with the fact that her entire life is, I don't want to call it a lie, but you know, you're in a cult, dude, you're in a cult. Everything you fought so hard for,

neglected your children for that caused a lot of pain and suffering in your own family would be for nothing. That's a real, real tough pill to swallow. I do want to leave us on the dangers of Scientology today. So they have a new thing. I think it's called the Golden Age of Dissemination,

but they're rolling out a whole new PR thing. They've been sending people for training for a long time. They want generational Scientologists. So now there is a huge push. And you can see it even online. They've got, they almost call it like a mom squad, OT moms they're calling it. They're trying to make it very family friendly.

They tend to go toward conservative values. there is an overlap of a lot of republicanesque type values. Again, we want to make the able more able. So we're not talking about a handout community or anything like that. What I see happening now is Scientology has safe pointed pretty much the entire Trump administration. They have made it to the White House. And the main thing they're doing this on is this idea that you can be any religion and be a Scientologist. And so this idea has allowed them public facing wise to say you can be a Jewish person.

You can be a Christian and also be a Scientologist. Scientology is like infiltrated. There are many high-level Scientologists who are Turning Point. There's Craig Jensen on the advisory board, John Mappen, who's Turning Point UK. Even Pam Bondi, who is our district attorney now, has photographs of her at Scientology accepting their awards in Florida because she was Florida politician. It is worth saying that some of these connections are widely discussed online, but not all of them have been independently verified.

What is verifiable is Scientology's longstanding strategy of courting political influence and presenting itself as compatible with nearly any belief system. There's a woman named Joy Villa. She wore like nagga gowns. She's black. She's got like a, I mean, she changed her hair a lot, but she's got like a cute little fro.

She's like, that's a little flower in it sometimes. She was, I want to put words in her mouth or her beliefs, but she's wearing trump gowns, okay, on the red carpet. She was very involved in Scientology. She came out. She left Scientology, being a Christian, she got to that high level where she had to choose. And she realized that when you get to the highest levels of Scientology, Elron Hubbard tells you that Jesus is an implant, that the evil psychiatrist, aliens in between lives will take your spirit to another. other planet and electronically force the image of Jesus in your mind to distract you during your lifetime. He also says that Jesus was a pedophile, that Jesus was violent, that Elron Hubbard

is the Antichrist and that this is all so that Jesus doesn't come back. Now, you don't get to these levels, like you're not going to stumble upon that. You're going to get there because you're going to submit, you're going to pay, you're going to submit, you're going to pay. Eventually you're going to do the famous OT level three where you're going to learn about Z-New and the alien story. You're not even going to learn it then. Like, the people who learn this information are so far in. So it's an acceptable truth. This is a Scientology concept.

You only tell somebody the truth that they can accept. If I told you the whole truth, it would turn you away from Scientology. And that would actually be bad for you. So I would be doing you a disservice. Oh, my God. Yeah. So if I really want to help you out, I'm going to tell you. you something that's acceptable to you to get you in the door so that you help yourself. And then

by the time you get to these high levels, like, you're going to be fine because you'll have earned that in your own right. And so you ask me if I trust anybody. No, I do not. I do not. Because I've lived a life of people telling you what you want to hear, making empty promises, and turning out to be full of shit. And how are they getting the kids now? They're doing what they did to me. They're making sure that they are educated in only Scientology schools that are very insulated with parents who are even willing to join staff or move to certain cities, making sure that they are raised on Scientology. Because think about it, you're an OT mom. Again, let's go back there.

You are power over matter, energy, space, and time. And you are growing a baby. You are power here. You've got a lot of responsibility. And I guess the cycle just keeps going. But when children have developmental delays, when they have neurological or different needs, those will be preyed upon. And they will be seen as a problem to be handled with Scientology. And so if you're Scientology, all you have to do is throw enough shame and guilt on the mom and wait for the kid to be a kid and the mom not know what to do.

Because last I checked, 85% of parenting is not knowing what to do. and you go to your church and you ask them for guidance and they give it to you it will keep happening. What can we do? Yeah, I've done protesting. I've done lobbying.

I've done writing. I got a blog about Scientology and Parenting. I honestly think the thing to do is up conversations like this with normal moms. I'm not trying to discredit fathers. They have so much power. They're so great.

I love you dads. But if moms knew, if you really knew, ask them, what are you going to? do when my kid scrapes their knee. If we ignited a little bit of our collective mama bear about this, you know, Scientology would be done. I may have a dream about that. Yeah, I probably will too. Well, well, well. Yeah. Yeah, that was a lot. That was everything. Liz Gale, everybody.

A third generation ex-Scientologist who lost her father, lost her brother, lost her mother, her inheritance and her home, but didn't lose her own children or her life to the manipulative grips of slianceology. Her book is called Confessions of an Ex Scientologist Pothead. Which is like the best title. I mean, it's a great title. It's a great title. You guys can find it for yourself. She says it's a quick read.

It's a fun read. It's unlike the tomes that are usually written about Scientology. It's just sort of her heart. If you liked what you got today, you will love her book. It's available on Amazon, and we will also link it in the show notes. You can also find Liz on the social. She's very active on TikTok, also on Instagram. All those links are also in the show notes.

You know, honestly, after everything we heard about safe pointing, interfaith councils, Delphi boarding schools, OT moms, and Scientology, making it to the watch. We should all be asking the question. Which question is that, Liz? What are you going to do when my kids scrapes their knee? There it is. And to all you mama bears out there listening, we see you, we love you, and guess what? You have a superpower.

Your intuition, as we learned in these episodes, is the biggest threat to Scientology. That, that, my friends, is their kryptonite. So keep lighting it up wherever you go. Do you have the same father intuition? Is that a same? It's mostly just, should I take the garbage out now or in the morning? That's pretty much what my father intuition is. It's not really the same.

That is nothing to do with being a dad. It kind of just relates to dad jokes, mostly. The timing of dad jokes. My wife got me a mug that says, dad joke champion. No one else has that mug, by the way. No one else is a champion. It's just me.

You can't have more of the one champion, by the way. At least she knows you, you know? One would think. That's a thoughtful gift right there. She's seen me naked. And again, my dear friends, I'm sorry, our dear friends. Thanks. I'm part of the friend group now.

You made it. You made it. We should hang out. We should do this more often. Make me more food. Let's hang out. You need a job. You need a better job.

If you guys haven't already, please subscribe to this little show. Follow us, rate us, review us, all of it. It actually, weirdly,

whatever, it helps a lot. Yeah, it does. It really does. If nothing else, it warms the cockles of our heart. And I just got some new cockles.

I'm not going into your cockles again. I don't want to worn out. I haven't thought about the cockle, your cockles in over a year. So if you do. want more. There's ad-free episodes. There's bonus content and all the warm feeling you get of supporting independent kick-ass media. And Tyler's cockles, which you can find on our Patreon. We'll also link that in the show notes. My cockles are not on Patreon. I will not put my cockles

on Patreon. Yet. But thank you for listening, everybody. Really, we do appreciate it. Thank you for caring about survivors and their stories. And Liz Gale, thank you for trusting us with yours. And where did it happen? For Liz, it happened in a cult. And where is she now? Free. Thank you. Process complete.

Wasa and a cult is written, hosted, produced by me, Liz Safe Pointer, Iyakuzi. And me, Tyler, potential trouble source, mesum. Sound mixed design, edit by the lovely Rob, Earth Credit Para. We'll be getting you some Earth credits soon, Rob. Yeah, we have some new episodes coming up. We have a cool episode of David Archiletta. David Articetta's coming up. We've got an online vampire cults coming up.

Yeah. We've got some stuff on music and cults. We've got an Amish. Guys. Guys. Guys. It's just stay friends forever. We should just hang out all the time.

Tyler's desperate for company. I'm doing. Just fine. But we seriously, we hang out more. I miss you guys. Well, you should call them more, you know. You're right. It's a two-way street.

I don't reach out like I should. But also, you guys, you can send emails. We love emails. I love getting emails and I respond to all of them. They're nice to hear. So do that. Info, was ironicoult.com. See you next week.

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