Was I In A Cult? - Shiny Happy People: “Shiny Happy Lies”

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Crystal was born into a world where women obeyed, children served, and questioning authority was a sin. Raised under the oppressive rule of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP)—yes, the same Christian fundamentalist cult as the Duggars, “Shiny Happy People”—she spent her youth cleaning toilets, raising her mother’s children, and being prepped for a life of submission.  But Crystal had other plans.  This is the ultimate rags-to-riches story. She didn’t just escape the cult—she obliterated every expectation it had for her. From eating half-eaten Snickers bars out of the trash to becoming a wildly successful entrepreneur, from being promised to a 30-year-old man at 15 to discovering (in the most hilariously ways possible) that she really enjoys sex—Crystal’s life is nothing short of jaw-dropping.  At times hilarious, at others absolutely heart-wrenching, Crystal shares with raw honesty how indoctrination shapes identity, how control distorts self-worth, and how breaking free comes at a cost. But she also proves that no matter how deep the conditioning, you can defy every expectation, reclaim your power, and build a life beyond your wildest dreams. __________________ Follow us for more culty content: @wasiinacult  Have your own story about high-control groups, or breaking free from an oppressive system? Email us at [e-mail] —we’d love to hear it. Want ad-free episodes? Support us on Patreon and help fund our cult-unmasking, truth-telling, freedom-fighting journey. Liz on “What Came Next” 

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network or any of their respective affiliates. This episode contains sexual content. Please listen accordingly. That was a trauma-free spot. It was a throw-up when I saw the cult leader for the first time in 20 years. Shiny Happy People, which is a hit four-part docu-series about the Duggars, the 19 kids and counting family. They were in our cult. Well, I'm here because when I saw it was in a cult, I was like, I can't deny it any longer since the show came out on Amazon saying, it was a cult.

Welcome, one and all, to Was I in a Cult? I'm Tyler Meesom. And over here I'm Liz Iacuzzi. And we give cult survivors a place to share their incredible stories with the world and in doing so, they take their power back. We do do that every single week and we do it with love. You know a little bit of levity here and there when called upon and our very own Liz was recently interviewed on another podcast which means somebody beat me to her story. I told you Tyler you waited too

long. We are working on your story for this show and it will be different. But if you'd like to hear Liz discuss her cult experience and toxic relationships, check out the latest episode of What Came Next, a podcast that explores the aftermath of survival hosted by award-winning writer, victim, advocate, and true crime survivor, Amy B. Chesler. It is a different format than our show, so when my episode airs here, you will get even more of the story, if you will. Oh, I will.

I will take as much from you as I can. Just re-traumatize you until you bleed and scream and give me your soul. That is what I do best. He's really looking out for my best interest here, guys. That's not your main, Liz. It's just for the best story. If it bleeds.

It leads. Of course, as previously referenced, we are doing something called Joking Around. What? And a fun fact about joking. Here we go, already. Did you know that the world's earliest recorded joke dates back to 1900 BC?

I don't even know how to count that. It's a saying from the Sumerians, by the way, the first people to brew beer, just so you know that as well. Oh, he's got facts within facts. You're like the Russian nesting doll of facts. Come back down this road, we're staying on the joke. So the Sumerians lived in what is now southern Iraq and the joke goes, quote, something which has never occurred since time immemorial. A young woman did not fart in her husband's lap.

That's the first joke. So the first joke ever recorded was a fart joke. You're in good company, Liz. What can I say, Rob? I know good humor when I smell it. Sorry. By the way, that's our producer, Rob. I know good humor when I smell it. Sorry. By the way, that's our producer, Rob.

Occasionally you'll hear him say a bad joke and maybe chuckle. What's up? I thought you were gonna insert your own joke here, but you refrained. I mostly do beer commercials from the 2000s. Stay in your lane, Rob. Speaking of jokes, here's the second oldest recorded joke.

It's from 1600 BC and it comes from Pharaoh Snufru. And it goes, how do you entertain a bored Pharaoh? You sail a boatload of young women dressed only in fishing nets down the Nile and urge the Pharaoh to go catch a fish. So in 3,624 years, yes, I just did the calculator on that. Sure you did. We've invented what?

Toilet paper, forks, and the Snuggie. But fart jokes and the objectification of women is still going strong. You know what? I do appreciate your consistency, humanity. Some things never change. So today's story, let's get to it. It is wild, it's inspiring, it's heartbreaking,

and it's filled with the moments that will leave you speechless, but not us speechless because we have to keep telling bad jokes and facts, right? And what our guest has managed to make of her life from where she started is truly remarkable. And yes, she was part of the same Christian fundamentalist group as the Duggars, aka the

Institute of Basic Life Principles founded by Bill Gothard. If you've seen Shiny Happy People, the documentary series on Amazon Prime, you know this was a system built on control, submission, and let's be honest, a doctrine that was designed to strip people of autonomy, enable abuse, and keep women and children powerless. So with that, please help us welcome today's incredible guest. She's hilarious, unfiltered, and at times, delightfully bawdy in the best way.

["Pure If I Me"] I'm Crystal Ball. I was born in Texas. My mom ran away with my dad when she was 15. And he left when I was two, and my little sister was six months. She remarried when I was five years old. And the man she married was a Marine drill sergeant who owned a weight lifting gym.

And she's a little meek mild nurse. She was also a preacher's daughter. And my mom had what is now known as anxiety, very high levels of fear of the world. She was obsessed with babies. She's a sweet human, but, you know, weak-willed. And so she pops out another kid that year, but I was the oldest, and so I got a lot of the responsibility

of all the kids she kept having. Eventually, the drill sergeant husband also left, but her mother then met and married a new guy. His name was John. He was an aircraft mechanic, then he kept getting laid off. And so all I know is at 14 we went into a three bedroom one bath rat-infested shithole house in Green Hill, Alabama. We moved three times in the next year. We went from Alabama to Tennessee to California. You know, he was a go-getter. He would get into whatever he got into hard.

So as he progressively got more and more into Jesus, we were in regular churches and we had started going to these Bill Gothard seminars. That was the cult. And what happened at these cult recruitment meetings? I believe you meant to say seminars Liz. Oh, yes, sorry seminars. Mm-hmm. So he would come in and speak. This was the Gideon Bible founder's son, Bill Gothered. He didn't have a family, but he believed that he had discovered God's way to handle everything in the family. His big thing was an umbrella of protections. The man is the head of the home and you follow the man. You're literally supposed to yield

your rights and your place is behind the man, but you're expected to do all the work and all of the performance and have sex on command because God says you do what your husband wants and you're not supposed to use birth control because those children are blessings, right? It all focuses around the family. Ugh, that sounds a bit like the cult we are all being forced to live in right now. The rest of the dogma was centered around just more extreme components, I think, of the actus religion, a lot of character pushing.

Now some people go to one seminar and say, this guy's a quack and never come back. But a lot of them got really deep. But there were like two million people going through all of this at the same time. So it was like this big movement. And that started the rabbit hole that my stepdad and my mom went down. My grandparents never went down that rabbit hole

They didn't fall into all of this and that was a big bone of contention. They fought with my parents a lot I was hook, line, sinker because it was all I knew. My parents are believing this and it sounds good to me Like, you know This is what I'm supposed to do and I was such a perfectionist that tried to be perfect to get any shred of love there could be possible because I didn't have that. You know, my real dad left anyway. My grandparents loved me. My parents had such a bad relationship with them on and off, that was not even stable.

The only way I got love is if I did everything I was told. Now, something interesting about this cult is that it wasn't just about following the leader. It was like a franchise model for many cult leaders. Fuckers sentin' up franchises. Nice. So instead of one central church, they would train members to go out and set up their own mini churches in their own homes.

It's like top of our parties for misogyny. They were teaching everybody to set up these small pockets of cults within their own little areas. My stepdad decided he was the leader of our local community. Okay, this is what the cult taught him to do though. You got to share God's Word, you got to make your children be the exact replica of what godly children look like. The home church model was in our homes. It was really the saddest church you've ever seen. Most of the time it would just be reading some material from the cult or Bible verses and then we would sing and the singing was really bad. We didn't really have great material. We would sometimes listen to TV shows from other churches. Oh, hey there! Welcome to the first church of penny pension

prophets. Please grab a folding chair generously donated by the defunct Bingle Hall down the road and do your best to avoid all the splinters from the tattered hymnals. Thanks for coming. And if you happen to die from boredom, well, that was your destiny. God loves you. And so do our unpaid volunteers. Most people at Lydicus, my stepdad was a freaking asshole. He was very self-entitled, right? He would drone on and on, read the Bible to us in family devotions. He loved to hear himself talk.

What I remember the most is, well, in the reading on the daily devotions, I was in the force keeping the kids quiet so they wouldn't get spanked because you spared the rod, spoiled the child. You know, we're not going to comment on this particular quote line from the Bible, spare the rod, spoil the child, because we've done it many times before. Do your own research. But damn, these cult leaders do not really know the Bible as they profess to. It's from a horny poem.

That's what Tyler told me. If you looked at him wrong, it was bad. We were just used and abused and I was the oldest so I took the brunt of it. But he would still make big theatrics of beating the little children, which was worse than beating me. But because he was distracted with being a godly cult leader, I got to provide for his family. And by provide, she means?

Workload is 6 a.m. we're up, we're feeding kids, we're doing laundry, we're bathing kids, and after gardening, after hoeing and raking and whatever yard work, we're washing mold off of our walls because there was hardly any heat. It was in such bad condition when we lived there, it was crazy. We were just piled like bump beds and trundle beds

and with mattresses that, you know, we found outside the road or, you know, charity. There were nine people in that 1,100 square foot house because we were in poverty. And in addition to obedience and submission, where as Crystal said, if you were a woman, you had one job. Serve your husband. Raise an army of children and never ever question authority. Education?

Not necessary. Higher education leads to sin and rebellion and career? What authority. Education? Not necessary. Higher education leads to sin and rebellion and career? What do you mean? She already had a full-time job. Didn't she here serve the man? And let's not forget the IBLP loved free labor. Families were encouraged to run businesses together. So kids were basically indentured servants, working long hours, homeschooling themselves, running their homes like small-scale religious compounds, and getting punished for not being joyful enough about it. And all the while doing so in abject poverty, while donating money and time to the wealthy church leaders.

But Crystal's family needed more money to donate, so they were enlisted by a gentleman who was a pastor of a local church. And he had a cleaning business, so he had an extra job for us. I guess they were looking for money. So this was the way to do the seminars version of godly life is that you all work together, live together, church together,

all of the other shit all the time so you could control everything, right? So we started the cleaning business at home at that point. We would go to work around one or two and then clean all afternoon. And when I say work, we were working six to eight hours a day on average. So we had houses and sometimes we would do stripping and waxing jobs. It would be 13, 15 hour days cleaning toilets of a hundred-man warehouse, cleaning the Catholic Church, this huge church. I'm working until 10, 11 o'clock at night cleaning.

Hey, we would find great stuff in the trash cans, okay? Like a half-eaten Snickers bar. That was a treat. Oh boy, it does take willpower to throw away half a Snickers. She's 14 years old at this point and she wasn't getting directly paid for all of this arduous labor. However, she was... I was paying rent out of my money. I was paying for food out of my money. Well, we had a garden, but like we would go to Fresh Value. Little Davies is the core food group for Fresh Value. Anyway, we go there,

and they're having to put part of their groceries back. I remember distinctly I was so embarrassed because they couldn't pay for their order. And of course, in cult-like fashion, their social circles were limited. We were only around other cult people. Anybody that homeschooled, we were allowed to socialize with on a group level. So for the homeschool program, all of our curriculum was Bible-based. We had to read the Bible every year, cover to cover. I read the Bible seven times.

Mom said I was a girl, I didn't need math. Back to the book, there's the answer. So we did the perfunctory test for whatever very minimal state requirements there were. We did that. My education was over in fifth grade. My exposure to information was limited. I mean little house on the prairie level limited. Biographies were the only way I could actually get around that because I could read biographies. I read as much because I could read biographies. I read as much as I could get my hands on. Reading was my outlet and writing.

I think that that is how I survived that. I internally knew that was my outlet. We'll be right back. Clothes. We need them. Yeah, well, unless, of course course you are a Digambara monk. They actually practice nudity as a renunciation of material possessions, Liz. Yeah, well, monks don't listen to our show, Tyler. So for everyone else, there's Quince. Guys, Quince is my go-to for luxury essentials at, yes, affordable prices.

Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach like washable silk tops, dresses, organic cotton sweaters, just honestly tons of stuff. And I said affordable and I mean it I just got a purse that should be three times as much but shh no one has to know that I'm a smart shopper. Your secret's safe because if podcast hosts like us can afford it well you know pretty much anyone can and quince only works with factories that use safe ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes so there's no excuses to buying a new sweater except for those naked monks i myself got a nice comfy cashmere crew neck. Slims me down by about 10 pounds, believe it or not.

Oh, Tyler, you look good just as you are. Very nice, Liz. So give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com slash cult for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash cult, free shipping, 365 day returns, quince.com slash cult. Hey Liz, have you heard of the term dark pattern? That's what cult leaders call critical thought, right? No.

Dark pattern is the term for the tactics that subscription services use to make cancelling difficult. Tell me more. They employ complicated cancellation processes, forced customer service interaction, retention offers, automatic renewals, lack of transparency and emotional manipulation to keep you and your hard-earned cash with them.

Not to mention the time it takes to cancel. Devious SOBs. Well, folks, it just became easier because Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending and it helps you lower bills so you can grow savings. When I first used it, Rocket Money found at least five subscriptions that I had forgotten about and it canceled them for me. They'll even deal with customer service for you, so thank you Rocket Money.

Rocket Money actually lowered my phone bill so I didn't have to wait on hold or repeat my name 12 times. And Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions. over five million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash cult today.

That's rocketmoney.com slash cult guys, rocketmoney.com slash cult guys rockandmoney.com slash cult. Okay, we're back. You know, I'm a bit surprised that we haven't commented on Crystal's name. Crystal Ball. Is that a real name? It's her real first name, but she changed her last name post cult. It's pretty good.

Crystal Ball. It could be Crystal Foz. I suppose she could do, or Chandelier. Crystal Chandelier, or what's the Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull? Yeah, she could have done that. Crystal Skull. Yeah. That's a pretty cool name. Yeah. All right, well, Crystal Ball it is. You can change your name today, Rob. Next up DMV. Alright so here's Crystal Ball she's in the cult and every cult uses fear tactics to keep the group in control but this group was extreme especially towards the girls. No way. Shocking. I literally thought if I stepped foot on a college campus I'd be raped.

I thought men were solely out to get me. We were so hypersexualized without being sexual. We had no not. They did not even let me go to sex ed in fifth grade. Heaven forbid I know what a vagina is, you know. Well to be fair, my fifth grade teacher taught me sex ed by stacking awkward silhouettes of bodies, you know, on those transparency sheets. Remember those for overhead projectors?

Sure. Transparency sheets. She stuck two, like a male silhouette and a female just on top of each other. She's like, this is how sex works. So honestly, even regular school wasn't quite nailing it. Pun intended. I pretty much learned all I needed to know about sex ed from Todd Johnson and a Playboy magazine

in the back of the school bus. So at least I had real pictures, Liz, and that knowledge has carried me through until today. It's all I needed. We're all proud. But Crystal, guys, she didn't need to learn about sex because there was no dating. Betrothal was the name of the game. You had courtship, but you were never left alone because nobody had self-control. The courtship would be a very guided dating structure, relationship with approval from

parents on all sides. And one day her parents returned from a cult convention and told her, Without a possibility for your future husband, let word unskip in contact with him and this is the type of guy we want you to marry. It was crazy who in their right mind finds a single guy at a convention cult to have their child on a pen pal dating, arrange a visit, supervise the visit. What possessed my parents to befriend this? on a pen pal dating, arrange a visit, supervise the visit. What possessed my parents to befriend this?

Wait, wait, wait, what? How old was he? 30. And she was? 15. Yes. So I've got like tons of letters that I wrote to the guy that I was gonna be atrocious to, so.

I write to him for years not ever having met the guy. My sister met him, she went to that convention, not me. I had never met the man. This is how desperate I was for connection, anybody to talk to. But we were vetting each other. But no, it didn't happen because I was too busy serving my family, so you know.

Amen. And because of the cult's terrible treatment of women, forced baby making, and lack of birth control, Crystal's family continued to grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow. I idolized my mother and I felt sorry for her. And I wanted to make sure that she didn't have any more stress on her than she already had.

You could just tell she was breaking. I was trying to be her caregiver, and she was her only friend. I didn't have female friends, and I was her rock. I was her emotional support crutch. She put this on me and my sister after my real dad left. I was the solution for everything. So it's no wonder I'm a world-class problem solver this day. When I was 15, Mom took the pregnancy test.

I was in the bathroom with her and she realized that she's pregnant again. And she's crying, so she wipes her eyes. She puts on her shiny, happy people base after that and goes out and tells everybody how God has blessed her with another child. So I know she doesn't want that child. I'm 15 years old. And in colt land, you learn to be a godly life and serve the Lord by raising the babies that you're the extra when your mom has you're assigned and this

Little baby was very special to Crystal and she was a doll. She looked just like Charlie Temple and she was just my little baby I love that child like she's mine and in the back when I was 18 Jonathan was born So those two babies are why I stayed as long as I did. People ask me why didn't I get out earlier. That's why, is those two babies. Cause in about one year, I think I was 19, the ninth kid popped up. Nine kids?

My vagina hurts just thinking about that. You know, I think I'm gonna take this line, Liz. Go for it. Nine kids? My vagina hurts just thinking about that. There was never, I never had a day off. I didn't understand that concept. I was always taking care of kids.

I was under such pressure all the time. Like, you know, there was very little gratitude. There was very little commendation. There was very little praise. The number one emotion of my childhood was fear. The number two was guilt. The number three was shame. The number three was shame. The number four was embarrassment.

There was no positive emotion other than love for those babies. I started keeping a journal in 1993 and up until 1998 when I left. In March 1st, 1996, I wrote, it was on loneliness. I said, lately I haven't quite felt like myself. I asked God today to show me an answer or new insights. In my J.I. Packer devotional, I read this,

Romans 7, 18 to 19. I know that nothing good lives in me that is in my sinful nature. I desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do. No, the evil I do not want to do. This I keep on doing. So I started asking myself questions in my journal. Paul's cry sums up the questions of life's inner contradictions.

Why do I so often feel lonely? But that was what we were taught. We are sinful by nature. So as I am hitting the age of 20 and I have zero friends, some of the cult girls are starting to get out and go get married, but I'm realizing at that point I don't want to get married, but then I'm insecure because I think, you know, that's what I'm supposed to do. It's not about what I want in my world.

It's about what I'm supposed to do. It's a behavior, conditional behavior, right? So I was crying one morning, because I'm just, like, I'm suicidal depressed and I'm lonely, I'm sad, and I'm lonely I'm sad I'm exhausted I'm overworked I had no freedom and they're in there like they're starting to limit more of my freedom they were getting more and more insane instead of easing up it was getting more pressure on me and so because I was not happy and God said be happy they're gonna

punish me for not being happy. My new punishments are I can't walk into Walmart first, I can't check the mail, I can't answer the phone, I have to stay at home with the babies, I can't go cleaning, and I have to write an essay on my bad attitude. But as I sit there and I'm just stunned that there's more punishments coming, it feels so unfair,

and my mom says, look at her, John, she's just got bad, you just beat her. And my mom says, look at her, John. She's just got bad. She just beat her. And my mom's usually on my side. We're usually collectively going against him. But my mom is turning on me at that point. When she said that, something clicked in my brain. There was no going back at that point.

I sat there. I gave them what they wanted to hear. I know exactly how to put on my shiny, happy people face, apologize, tell them I'm sorry God's working with me and I said what they wanted to hear. To get the fuck out of there, I think that a flight mode had been, I was done. It was either that or I was going to kill myself anyway. That's where I took safety in. I know that's crazy or bad, but that's what kept me going because I was like kill myself anyway. That's what I took safety in. I know that's crazy or bad, but

that's what kept me going because I was like, okay, if it ever gets too bad, I'll just, I got that outlet. I can at least, that's better than any of this. Like I can't, my head cannot take any more. Like I got to that point and I packed my shit. I knew I was hugging those babies for the last time. my shit. I knew I was hugging those babies for the last time. And so now it was just about executing the escape. During the day as he slept for work that night, mom went to clean with the kids. She didn't come out till 9 o'clock that night. While we're bringing the groceries in, I'm taking my stuff out to the van. I have to hide all this and I'm terrified but I'm having to act but I've been trained to act. It's not like everything's fine. And I'm shaking, but I'm having to act. But I've been trained to act. It's not like everything's fine.

And I'm shaking like a leaf and I drive away. I didn't once think about the emotional trauma of it. I just wanted to escape from all of that. I just wanted to live my own life and create my own life. I had $76 and I had no skills other than cleaning. In my head, I was 12. I could work in a house like a 30 year old in a business, in a small cleaning business.

But my understanding and comprehension of myself or the world was like a 12 year old's. So I don't know what's gonna happen. So about 10.30 at night, I get to my grandparents' house and knock on the door, they're asleep of course, and he goes, Crystal, honey, what's wrong? I said, Papa, I need to stay here tonight. Now I wouldn't talk about it.

Now remember, Crystal had no real relationship with her grandparents at this point because they were never in the night. Now I wouldn't talk about it. Now remember Crystal had no real relationship with her grandparents at this point because they were never in the cult. I wake up that next morning it was the worst feeling in my life because I woke up alone. I'm in an unfamiliar house. There's a smell of bacon and I'm like oh god what have I done? And there's not kids running the job on me. There's not kids to feed and I don't know what to do with myself Because I always had to take care of No one's made breakfast for me. I love my grandparents, you know But I don't know them like I should because everything in my life is guarded

To the point. I don't trust anyone Those next few days we don't hear a word. And I'm sitting there going, huh. Papa was like, I needed to talk to them. I'm like, no Papa, please don't. I'm just, I'm just don't want to go back. I'm just like, he walked out. My grandpa was a smart man.

He didn't do that in front of me, thankfully. He walked out to my aunt's house across the street and calls John. John, of course, is Crystal's stepfather, AKA her former cult leader. I don't know that that's what he's doing. Me and me are sitting there and he comes and all of a sudden he was hauling ass back to that house

and I'm like, and that familiar fear, I know what rage looks like, I'm ready for, oh God, here we go. He slams open that door, he says, Crystal, honey, if that's how he's been talking to you all these years, no wonder you left. He goes, you are my girl now. And he bare hugged me. And that was the first time in my life I had ever felt safe.

I never knew what safety was until that moment. And my grandpa was true to his word, and he was always there for me And my grandpa always treated his word and he was always there for me from that day on until the day he died. Was I an occult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians, these are things people say

about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. You know, stuff adults do, right? Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it so your dollar goes a long way. So visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will

vary. Not available in all states or situations. Hey there listeners, so you need a little spice in your life? Maybe a dash of intrigue or just a story that doesn't end with a cult leader ruining everything? Well let me introduce you to Dipsy, the app that brings you short, sexy audio stories designed to ignite your imagination. Created by women for the female gaze, the Dipsy app has over 1,000 spicy audiobooks, all crafted by a team of professional writers and top-tier narrators. Dipsy's stories are like the pellet cleanser your ears deserve. Steamy, empowering, and dare I say fun? Plus they're created with real consent and

zero manipulation. Imagine that. And right now listeners of this show can get an extended 30-day free trial. Just go to dipsystories.com slash inacult and start your free trial. That's D-I-P-S-E-A stories.com slash inacult for 30 days of full access for free. Visit dipsystories.com slash inacult. Have fun, you deserve it. The day I left, the only identity I had was as a daughter and a sister, right?

And a child of God and a servant to God. Okay. I lost my identity. I lost my home. I lost my family I lost my church. I lost my friends. The cult people once I I left, they can't talk to me. I'm ex-communicated. I lost everything I had. If I had not had my grandparents, I don't know where I'd be to stay. The hardest part of all this and the part that it doesn't matter how much counseling I ever go through is the babies. I tried to see them several times after I left. I guess I missed it. It was the babies that were driving me to go see them, right? And so I went to the house one time. John's scurrying the kids, go in, go in. He's telling the kids to get away from me, like act like I'm going to hurt these children,

right? And he's like, you got to get out of here. I'm going to call the cops. He threatened to call the cops. So Crystal left, but a few weeks later. I drove by one day and saw the U-Haul. And so I think they left the state. DCF was about to go get the kids. So, they left the state.

DCF had apparently gotten wind of the child labor abuse, so they fled. And the worst part, Crystal had no idea where her family went. So I had to readjust to life not knowing them. So she turned to the family she did have, even though she really didn't even know him. So my real dad had been trying to get a hold of us for a while and mom would always step arm him and I wanted to meet him partly because I hoped he could contribute to me getting reestablished because I needed help, you know. Papa went and vetted him for me. He's all excited to get to meet my dad. He would have been 40, early 40s. When I

met, I was so over the moon excited because I realized I was just like him. I look like him. I act like him. My mannerisms are his. He's got, he, it's just crazy, right? That's where the personality came from, you know. I'm like, oh, it makes sense now. So he's living in Birmingham. I go into his room, it's black and white. He's got a Playboy girl picture. I'm like, oh my God, he's going to hell. I go from cult dad to Satan. Like, I thought he was the devil himself. But the devil at least had a solid job. He's an F&I guy at a car dealership. So I looked at his world and I looked at mine

and I decided I could sell cars and that'd be a lot easier than cleaning toilets. I sold three the first weekend. I didn't know the difficulty of four cylinders, six cylinder. So I was always good at selling. Outside of her father and grandparents, Crystal didn't have many people to talk to. So she called the one person she remembered from the cult.

The only little boy I knew from home church. And he had been excommunicated because, yeah, so I called him but six weeks later I said, I left home. I was sad, lonely, he goes, don't be in the water, it's fine. I'm like, okay. So she reconnects with this guy and well, let's just say, she takes the train to bone town. Looking back, I had been deprived of human connection

and touch and love for so long, I was desperate to be loved, that's it. So I got married right off the bat. But see, I was so ignorant. Okay, I had never seen porn. I had never read a book. I've never been to sex ed. I know nothing about sex. Okay, so my first foray into this is wiggling around feeling good and get you know exploring your body. But I don't know what anal sex is but that's what I did because I was still I still had to be a virgin

when I'm married. I was thinking I might not get into heaven for this, but oh my God, it feels so good. I was just glad to be touched. And I don't know, I asked my husband, what's up, are you big? And he got offended. And I don't know, I have no frame of mind, I had never seen another dick.

I'm different, right? I don't think normally, but I love sex, okay? So I'm like, once I discovered good sex, I was hooked, but it took several tries to discover good sex so once I did I was hooked okay so and that turns out I was really good at it. But unsurprisingly this man that Crystal married after only being out of the cult a few months wasn't the right match. I wanted more out of life and so I did what every good little Christian girl was when marriage is not going well and you're too scared to get out of it

you just go fuck your boss. So my little one-eyed pick-me-goat boss at the time he had a beautiful wife and I wanted to know how he got this woman. It certainly wasn't his sex skills I figured out real quick. But see I was so ignorant, Kate. Looking back there was so much emotional immaturity. I was so naive on everything. I mean, this was a very slow coming out process, like to a normal pace. And then it wasn't normal because I still married. So I don't know that it's normal

to take your history teacher to Miami and have a foursome and a hot tub. Excuse me? I had a crazy history teacher I loved to travel with and so we were down in Miami. Remember I have never been around another female so I do not know how other women work. I just know that I'm different, right? But yeah, we're in the hot tub in Miami and the guys were really slick and they told us it was the hot tub at their house and it was a hot tub in a public apartment.

So I don't care. I'm off with my clothes in the pool and she's going, oh, oh, oh. And I'm like, what is wrong with her? Why don't you just get in, you know? But then come home on your birthday and your husband's got a surprise party for you. Yeah, but I eventually divorced him and it wasn't until I made a lot of money that I had time to get out of it, right? Yep, the girl who once ate Snickers bars from the trash is now self-made. Wait, what? I'm the rags to riches stories?

I ran the cleaning business through college and then was also selling cars and then I went into the convenience store industry. I was having a ball, okay. I just wanted to understand the world and have experience. Like I just wanted to know how everything worked. The world is my oyster and I was curious as hell, right, because I had been repressed for so long. And I usually dated for a year at a time. Like I try to find a good nerd with a good-sized dick

that knew what he was doing. They didn't have real high standards here. I want to see all the dicks. Yours is curved, yours is... What? That's a potato! That's not a dick. Oh wait, that's a button. Ugh. Editor's Note. Yeah, I know the sound effects are too much. Please don't write us about them. My cult leaders, Liz and Tyler, locked me up in the basement and are forcing me to work on this all weekend. So please, this is the only joy I have. Just let me have this one. So those first few years were really very disorienting.

And I was struggling with the judgment. I was struggling with just finding my own way. What I did not deal with was the emotion. And that's when I got, I had another very short lived marriage. And that was when I was spinning out and treating guys terrible. I was not a good version of myself at all because I was so hurt. But I didn't know, I couldn't recognize what the hurt was from or where, you know, I didn't understand myself. Oh, the pendulum does swing. See, when you were as suppressed as long and to the extent

that Crystal was, all of her behavior after leaving, it kind of makes complete sense. And she was hurting the most over one thing in particular. That burden of not knowing and of missing those babies, it never left me. So I paid an investigator to find them. I drove all the way to North Carolina with my husband, my sister, my brother, and to the door. They had been prepped if I came there to not let me in. So I had to wait for mom, my sister answers the door, she goes, mom, we'll see you now. And I had prepared for a lot of different reactions. That's not a reaction I had prepared for. So I burst into tears and I'm like, we are a family. I don't know what the problem is. I'm married. I'm doing well. Everything's good. What is the problem? I said, you ran off

with my dad at 15. John has a problem with what you're doing. You're gonna have to talk to him. And they told me to go home. I left without seeing the babies. Fucking cults. Fucking cults, right? Cults. Fucking cults. We'll be right back. We'll be right back, guys.

A true crime podcast. It got me upset because this is someone's kid and someone knows she's gone. That takes a different approach. It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Focusing on the communities affected by life shattering crimes. It made news throughout the entire region that these two people had been shot while they slept in such a safe community. To give a new perspective on the devastation crimes can cause.

It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Featuring cases from quiet towns to bustling cities, and interviewing the people closest to the case. My first thought was that it's an unusual location for us to have a homicide. Listen to the True Crime podcast, City Confidential, and step beyond the yellow tape to learn just how far a crime can reach. There are certain cases in the history of Boston that I think sort of define the city. I think this is one of them. New episodes of the City Confidential Podcast are available

every Thursday, available wherever you get your podcasts. So Crystal was now physically free from the cult, but now it was time to let her mind be free as well. I had to go to counseling to get my head back on straight. I honestly did not know I had childhood trauma until I started counseling. I honestly did not know I had childhood trauma until I started gout sling. I had to reprogram every element of my life to function normally at all. But that reprogramming was, it was very difficult out of that environment. Psychologically, I was really screwed up. I just didn't know how bad until years later. But that was when I first started making decisions that were right for me.

But I never realized I was different. I've spent so much of my life trying to blend in to get a friend, but then now I realize, oh wait, but I was meant to stand out and I was meant to be different. This is who I've come to be and it's okay. It's okay to be me now. And eventually, Crystal, who spent her entire youth taking care of babies, she had her own.

Then I had my son, the happy accident, and I was over the moon happy to have that baby. And that baby did heal my broken heart. I could never love until I had my child. And I was like, my son needs to know my family. I'm going to try to, I'll be the bigger person, I'll forgive. And I was like, my son needs to know my family. I'm gonna try to, I'll be the bigger person. I'll forgive. And I did. I'm gonna tell my children the truth of what happened. Because I live in the truth. You know what I realized is, you're not ashamed of what's in your closet. If you will deal with yourself and you've reconciled what you

have done, then there's nothing to hide. And that's what I've done. I've done some root blowing crazy shit in my life and I wouldn't change a fucking thing because I lived my life and I lived my truth and I lived a great big adventurous life. I moved to Florida so that I could, and I'd always want to live at the beach. It's where I get my zen on

and I met my ex-husband about six months into this. And so I wanted another baby. Fast forward to now. Date, date, break up, bone, bone, bone, sex, sex, oh, I hate you, oh, I love you, mmm, that feels good, weird, don't, yummy. I have two boys there're 8 and 12. I want my boys to see a mom who's in charge of this family because I'm the strongest of them because I've been through the most hell. I have very severe parenting PTSD because anything that I'm doing with my

children I'm having to reprogram hard and fast because every natural instinct I have is wrong to parent. I'm not going to beat my children. I'm not going to talk to them harshly. I'm not going to stay on their ass about everything 24-7. I'm going to encourage them to have friends. I'm going to facilitate those connections. They're amazing little humans and we have a very unorthodox situation now. Yes, she got married and did have a second child with him. They have subsequently divorced but now the father of her sons, well, they moved in together. It's a big house, it's got the pool table and the darts and I've got the

pool house near the beach with the golf cart. The kids had the best of both worlds and we're five minutes from each other. It's a magical life. I go eat over there when I want and we all just get along and then don't cook for my boyfriend if I have one But it works Wow, talk about a modern family, right? Move over Julie Bowen And Crystal's now working in real estate and

kicking ass in it But not many women did the type of job I was doing. I was working in a man's world, but I could be a man. I remember a weird, awkward conversation with John once. I told him I wanted to be a boy, and he told me how wicked and ungodly that was. But I realized I wanted to be a man because I didn't want to be abused. That's all it was. Men had the power to not be abused. I just wanted to be safe and secure and loved. But it was hard for me to admit that. That's admitting to the shameful past I

had. That's admitting to the fact I came from nothing. That's admitting to the fact my parents were a bunch of dumb bucks. I'm staying in my own lane and I'm responsible for me. And now I've calmed the fuck down for the first time in my life and I can breathe without the stress and trauma and this in my head, right? But it has taken two years of consistent counseling and reading 20 different trauma and therapy and relationship books and a lot of self-education to get to this point. My mind had to shift from small-minded, ignorant, why are we wasting our breath over this amount of bullshit to let's figure out how to build the life we want.

And I want a magical life of travel and adventure at the beach and getting to do what I want to do. And I've done it. Damn right you have. And there's much more to do. Crystal continues to live in Florida. And since I have given very few facts in this episode, I will say that an estimated 1,100 Florida police officers

have been fired by other Florida police departments. Just a little fact for you. Why? Why what? Why have they been fired? Or why did I have to give that fact? Both. I don't know.

It's just something I read in Harper's Bazaar, and I'm relaying it to you. He loves his Harper's Bazaar. I do, actually. Mock me, but I do. You just got your teeth cleaned or what? You're at the dentist? I get a subscription, but whatever. You just had to, don't you, Tyler? You're at the dentist? I get a subscription but whatever. You just had to don't you Tyler? You just have to. Yeah I that's what I do I give facts

Livs would you bemoan a Robin for singing or the Sun for shining? I don't know if I would bemoan anything Tyler. What's Crystal doing now? Crystal is also in process of publishing a book called Diary of a Cult Girl, which is a compilation of all her diary entries from her times growing up in her cult. And she's also written a book called 300 Men and Counting, which is what you guessed. All the dicks, as she said. It is a hysterical romp through the hypersexuality of repression cultivated during her time in the cult.

Wow. I think I'll read that book. I think you want to read that book. Speaking of books, did you know that the percentage change since 2021 in the portion of Americans who want to receive a book for the holidays is a negative 21 percent. Who? And Tyler with the uplifting facts, everyone. Next, you're going to tell us some weird stat about gift cards.

The estimated amount of money stored on unused gift cards in the United States is $27 billion. OK, that's insane. Is that true? Yes. Guys! Yes, start sending them to us. We will spend them wisely. That's crazy. So who keeps that money? Like Rite Aid and CVS? Yeah, of course. That's why they push gift cards so heavily. At least 2 billion of those are Jamba Juice gift cards that my mom's given me over the years that I just can't

seem to use. There's never a Jamba Juice around and I don't really need that much sugar in my life. Well there goes our Jamba sponsorship. Sorry, one strawberry surf rider please. All right, Tyler, are you done with the facts? Are you done? Yeah, I could. I'm done unless you want some obscure rock and roll trivia. I think we're good. And thanks to one of our newest Patreon members, Ariel Schechter. Thank you, Ariel. We appreciate you. How's this for our Patreon subscribers? Anyone who signs up this week, you'll be eligible to get a very nice shipment of samples from one of our sponsors. I will send out a

very cool package from a sponsor that we have that I won't name here apart from saying that the package will come via me. Oh, via Tyler. Winky-winky. So sign up. I'll send you some goodies. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for being here, for giving us your attention for, you know, one hour a week. We really appreciate you. And Crystal, thank you for telling us your hilarious and brave story and we're just in awe of you and what you've overcome and been able to accomplish in your life. So you rock, girl. You rock. And next week, we'll have another fantastic story. This one, let's just say that if you've seen

the wonderful show, The Bear, you'll appreciate this one. You're gonna like this cult, guys. Is it a beef sandwich cult? That's what I'd actually join. I would quickly rise the ranks of that cult. That's when I'd actually join. I would quickly rise the ranks of that cult. All of my blood, sweat, tears, depression, panic attacks,

anxiety, trips to the hospital, it was so worth it. All of the things that they said that I would get the glory, I got it. It's real. So I doubled down because they were right. Chef was right. And I became a big old angry bitch just totally tearing into people, humiliating people in front of their co-workers. And that was just how things worked, you know? All fine dining chefs kind of do that.

That's our show. Was I an Occult is written, produced and hosted by me, Liz, escaped in a van. Or you could call it 400 man, Iacuzzi and and me Tyler Hot Tub threesome meesome. Oh, he good callback Tyler good callback. We have sound design and edit by Rob Potato Para. I guess just assistant editor is Greta. The water's fine Strom Stromquist. And our executive producer, Stephen, the world is his oyster, Labrum. Remember, it's okay to be mad, it's not okay to be mean. Purify me Don't spare my life Crucify me And TV fans like me. They've got something for everyone. And it's totally free. You can binge laugh-out-loud sitcoms like Frasier. And re-watch cult classics like Higher Learning.

Whether you're in the mood to solve a little crime before bedtime with NCIS or Tracker. Or curl up with a surefire hit like Forrest Gump. Run, Forrest! Pluto TV has thousands of movies and shows all for free. Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.