Was I In A Cult? - SpaceX—PT1: “It’s About to Get Musky in Here”

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

An ex–SpaceX engineer asks our favorite question: when does mission become mindset—and then eventually something more? Paige was convinced she was helping save humanity by working at SpaceX.In Part 1, she traces the seduction: the purpose, the perks, the “Elon Algorithms” plastered on the wall, the complete devotion, the loss of individuality into one group identity, the isolation, the uncompensated labor, the belief that you are better than the rest… it all started to feel less like a workplace and more like… something else.Today, we follow Paige’s journey into the belly of the rocket factory. And next week? The fallout. When speaking up against the culture didn’t just cost her a job… it made her a target.———FOLLOW USFor more cult content, behind-the-scenes chaos:→ → @wasiinacult on Instagram & TikTokSUPPORT THE SHOWThe best way to fuel our mission? Rate, review, and share the pod with your people — word of mouth is rocket fuel.And if you want to help keep the mics on (without betting on stock options that never vest)? Join us on Patreon. We don’t drain bank accounts — we just give you ad-free episodes, bonus content, and our undying gratitude.→ Become a member Patreon.HAVE A CULTY STORY?Whether it’s a startup, a church, or just your weird improv troupe — we want to hear it.→ [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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please contact Conix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to a advisor, free of charge, but MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. My name is Paige. I'm a person who used to work at SpaceX. I'm an engineer, so I still work in the space industry. I was unceremoniously, but somewhat publicly fired from SpaceX for speaking out about workplace culture. And in the aftermath of all that, I just realized how much

my life had been taken over by this one job to the point where it was way more than just a job. And so that's why I'm here. Welcome back to our show. Was I in a cult? I'm Liz Iyakusi. And I'm Tyler Reesom. And today's episode, well, it started with an email we received and it read as follows. I've been hesitant to send this message, but here goes. I worked at SpaceX for four and a half years as an engineer convinced I was doing something meaningful to save the world. Seeing as how dangerous Musk has been in increasing amounts

makes it feel like I should speak up at any opportunity. My only power is my voice. I truly believe SpaceX is a cult. And while it technically wasn't my choice to leave it, I'm grateful to be on the other side three years later. That email was sent to us by Paige Holland-Thieland. And since most everyone listening to the show right now knows who Elon Musk is, except for maybe those who are actually in cults.

Or those currently mourning the fact that the rapture did not, in fact, happen. Shocker, on September 23rd, 2025. And now they're just, I don't know where they are, just floating with no home, no job. But neither of those groups probably listen to our show list. Not yet. Hopefully soon, though. Yeah, they'll be on it soon enough, I would imagine, yeah. Did you see this rapture stuff? I only read about it.

I am not on TikTok. It is not my bag of tea. I can't just play it, Rob. There's no more time. You need to repent now. I don't want you to be left behind. As many of you know, the rapture is on Tuesday. I've given away all my earthly possessions.

to the heathens that I know will not be coming with us, the chosen ones. It is 7 a.m., September the 23rd here in Asheville, North Carolina. I've been watching, and I haven't seen anybody floating upwards. So maybe it hasn't happened yet, but don't worry. I'm sitting out on my deck, and I will report if I see anybody floating upwards. But of course, like all doomsday, September 23rd, well, it quickly came, and then it became September 24th, and somehow, some way, well, Jesus continued to say, Sike!

Jesus Christ! Hey, people, I know you're all on my jock, and that's dope and all, but I died all. long-ass time ago. And yet no one in the history of humans gets more fan mail in the afterlife than this guy. And don't get me wrong, my ego is thriving. But the truth is,

if I came back, I need to have a social media account to prove it, and then I'd have to post like six times a day to keep up with all my followers, which move over. Taylor Swift, you think 282 million is a lot. Try two and a half billion! But honestly, that just sounds really exhausting. And a little tip, the wine up here, yeah, can't be the nose on this stuff.

I just opened a 33A.D. Bordeaux. Yeah, I've been saving it. And let me tell you, it's to die for. The Jesus, very nice. Awful. So, on September 24th, after Jesus did not come, the true believers, of course, had come to terms with that fact that they'd been duped. We can put come to terms with in quotes.

My entire hypothesis of how the rapture would take place and when the rapture would take place was based on the announcement of the peace treaty. And that would be taking place today during Trump's speech. That clearly just ended and it did not happen. I have a very strong relationship with the Lord. He did give me these signs. Whether I interpreted them incorrectly or not is clearly obviously. what's being clarified right now because the rapture hasn't taken place.

So why exactly are we talking about TikTok rapture? Because, as you will see in this episode, it's all about belief. And what happens when your belief system, whether it's spiritual, scientific, or startup-driven, starts to consume your identity. When purpose becomes doctrine and mission becomes morality, you might not just be at work. You might be an occult. Or you might not be launching a rocket to Mars.

might just be launching your 20s into a black hole of stock options that will never, ever vest. It'll make more sense at the end of the episode. So with that, let's please welcome today's wonderful guest, Paige. Crucible I am originally from Saratoga Springs, New York. I am the third of four kids, relatively normal childhood. I'm really close with my siblings.

My dad is a doctor. My mom is in business administration. I've always been super passionate about space. So it was always kind of like one of the things like, yeah, if I'm an engineer someday I could become an astronaut, and that would be really cool. That's actually something that's, like, relatively within my reach because I always got good grades and I excelled in sciences and I went to engineering school. In New York City at Cooper Union, it's a really small engineering art in architecture school.

It's really cool history that I'm sure Tyler would nerd out about. We don't really have sports, so there's not, like, a mascot, but we do have other cool things. Oh, who me? I mean, you want me to say some interesting facts? Don't mind if I do. So Cooper Union was founded way back in 1859 by Adventur, industrialist and philanthropist Peter Cooper, who invented the first steam locomotive built in the United States,

as known as the Tom Thumb. But more importantly, in the scope of America, he patented a process for manufacturing condensed gelatin. Over time, this evolved into what became known as Mm-hmm, Jello. Mormons meet your new prophet. Mormons love Jello. They do love their Jell.

They do. He also invented the first self-rocking, baby cradle that played music when it was rocked. Patented in 1815 and even came with a cloth to ward off flies. But he later sold that patent for a horse and buggy. Because priorities, you know? I mean, you got to get somewhere, right? You don't want to walk.

But his greatest invention, well, it wasn't yellow or musical bassinets. It was Cooper Union, a college built on one radical idea that a high-quality education should be accessible to anyone, regardless of race, gender, religion, or social. social status. This was very bold for 1859. Bold for 2025, frankly. True. Cooper was largely self-taught, which is exactly why he was so passionate about creating free accessible education for everyone. Did you say free, Tyler? I said free. The coolest thing that old Peter did was offer full tuition scholarships to all admitted undergraduate students. And this continued long after his death, until 2014, in fact, and even today, the college offers half tuition for all students.

That's pretty cool. Yeah, it is very cool. It is very cool. Interesting. Very interesting dive I went down. So thank you, Paige, for teeing it up for me. You knocked that one right into the catchers meant. I mean... No, you... No, you wouldn't knock it into the catcher's meant.

I mean, it was definitely a double down the line. I'm certainly standing in second. You knocked that one right into center field, an easily caught out ball. caught out ball my freshman year I was working on something with a master's student who ended up going to work for SpaceX

and that was end of 2007 that was the first time I'd ever heard of SpaceX and that was the first time I realized like oh that's like a thing that I can actually do like there are other paths to the space industry other than being an astronaut and that was game changing for me from that moment that was my aspiration

someday I'm going to work at SpaceX You know, there's this, like, starry-eyed optimism of, I'm going to change the world immediately out of college. And for me, it was like, I want to forge new ground. I want to be part of exploring space, even if I'll never get there myself. The promise of something bigger than you, a grand mission, a higher purpose. Suddenly, it's not just giving you a job. Well, it's giving you meaning. You know, the idea of joining, like, a smaller, newer company where people were, like, quote, moving fast and breaking things.

That was the exciting part. SpaceX was definitely one of them because they were planning to launch reusable boosters on a controlled landing on a drone ship in the middle of the ocean. Like that sounds so sci-fi. It still sounds sci-fi. But like all cool clubs, this one had its own exclusive gatekeeper. And Paige, she just kept a knackin. Yeah, so I graduated from college in 2011.

I applied to SpaceX a bunch and never got responses, never got in. And then I got engaged and moved across the country. So we were in the Seattle, Tacoma area, which is pretty good for engineering work. I found a job in aerospace. They make, like, fluid flow meters. And I was a test engineer. And it was a really, really, really boring job. And I think probably at least once every six month, I would just drop an application at SpaceX.

And then at one point, it had been several months since my last time applying. And I just randomly got like a cold email from a recruiter. And so I got really excited. This particular recruiter reached out about a different position than the one page had applied for. I got my hopes up. I gave him like 10 times that I was able to talk over the next two days and I never heard from him again. So I was devastated for a couple weeks, I think. And then I was like, why don't I just apply for the role that I think he's talking about?

Then I did that and immediately the next day I got another email from a different recruiter about it. And then I went through, like, the initial phone screen with the hiring manager, and it went terribly. Like, it was so bad. And so I was just completely heartbroken. That had happened. I was like, I wasted my one opportunity at life. And so I started applying at other companies. I interviewed with Blue Origin again.

I think it did well, and they were, like, going to invite me for an onsite. But then SpaceX came back. They were like, what about this ground software engineer role? It's like, oh, I could do that, probably, and, like, I was really excited about that. And so that initial interview went really well. People treated me so great, and they were excited to meet me. And, you know, the recruiter was really, like, amazing and enthusiastic. He was giving me a tour of the factory, which was really cool to see.

Not every day that you get to walk through a rocket factory, but every single person was wearing SpaceX t-shirts, everybody. And I was like, is it, like, a uniform? And he was like, no, we just, like, you know, we get discounts on merch and everybody just, like, really loves SpaceX. And I was like, that's cool. And then they gave me a SpaceX T-shirt and water bottle. Was the water bottle filled with a flavorade? Nice. I like that you said Flavorade instead of Kool-Aid.

Yeah. Because it was Flavorade that they used at Jonestown. Everyone says Kool-Aid. I appeased our one listener, Brian, who really gets his panties in a nod over that fact. He's right. He's right. It was Flavorade. So I do love how SpaceX gave you merch, even though they hadn't gotten the job yet.

Right. I interviewed with SpaceX. and all I got was this lousy t-shirt and water bottle. Also, the fact that the employees are wearing the SpaceX shirts voluntarily, like, tells you everything you need to know. That's like working at JiffyLub and being like, nope, I do not have to wear this uniform. I'm just fully devoted to the mission of preventative vehicle maintenance.

That's a very important mission. Jiffy Lube! They give you a coding test, which is like four hours. long. So I took half of my birthday off from work so that I could do this coding test. If that goes well, then they invite you on site. You give a presentation. So the first part of the interview is like an hour-long presentation with 12 people in the room. When they ask the like why SpaceX question, that's when they like are judging your desire to contribute to this mission. Like if I hadn't mentioned that SpaceX's mission is like what I want to do with my life, then they wouldn't have

thought that was a good answer. and you have one-on-one interviews with five or six other people. So it's like a whole day ordeal. But it went really well, and I got the offer like a couple of days later. And then as soon as I like told people at my job at the time that I was leaving to go to SpaceX, it was like all of a sudden I was somebody. And then they were like, oh my God, you've made it. Everybody like celebrated with me.

And it felt so weird, but like so validating. It made me feel like I was otherwise an unremarkable person, but now I'm somebody. And so this gives me an identity. Hmm. You've done a lot of episodes, but I have heard this sort of language on this particular show before. Page also shared with us that if you answered the Y SpaceX question, quote, wrong in the interview, they generally don't hire you. If you don't mention the mission.

Speaking of the mission, let's do our mission. We'll be right back. Fall is actually here kind of crazy, which means two things. Pumpkins spice everything. Hooray. And me realizing my wardrobe is not ready. As you know, Liz, I am basically a shorts and t-shirt kind of guy. And then the first chilly day hits.

And I'm like, yeah, you know, I probably should have a sweater. Luckily, Quince, guys. Guys, quince just keeps getting. And better and better. I don't even want to give them my latest secret. Tell me. Just tell me there. No, I'm not going to tell you.

No, they'll skip. Listen. No, because then they're going to buy it out and then I won't be able to purchase it. I'll be mad and I'll be sad because it's always sold out. What is it? It's the perfume. It's really good. Oh, yeah.

No, it's like really good. Nice to know. They also have some new sweaters that I love. Guys, they have Mongolian cashmere sweaters that start at $50. Sweet. Washable silks, tops, skirts, they now have denim. I'm obsessed with quince. Yeah, I just checked out the wool coats, right?

Yeah. And one could assume their designer, Liz, because you know how important designer is to me. But I look at you, Tyler. I just see Prada. Yeah. And the truth is, look, I don't buy a lot of stuff. I really don't. I'm not a consumer by and large.

But when I do, I want my stuff to last. And Quince products, they really are. great. They're high quality. It does. They have puffers. I want like every single puffer that they have right now. I just, and the black, remember my black cardigan. Why would I remember that? I just keep, grabbing it on repeat. It's, it's turning into my fall uniform. So keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash cult, get some free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That means you can put all the perfume on and then send it back 12 months from now. Don't tell them.

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash cult. Quince.com slash cult. And maybe this year I'll actually get a sweater. Now I have to go buy all their perfume out before all of you people do. You people. Damn it. So Paige's dreams were all coming true. She was finally going to be one of the chosen few building humanity's future on Mars.

But first she had to uproot her life and start anew. So we sold her house the week before we were supposed to haul all of our things to California. And I still hadn't heard back from SpaceX about my onboarding training. And so I called the only phone number that I knew, which was the recruiter that I worked with. And it was a different person. And his email had been disconnected. And I was like, now what do I do? Like, do I even actually have a job?

because at this point, my house is empty, it belongs to someone else in five days. Like, I reached out to one of the other people who had been on my various email chains to be like, is anybody expecting me on Monday? So it turns out someone had just forgotten to send her the onboarding documents, which is a simple mistake, considering the high-employee turnover, I suppose. Yeah, not an ideal way to start a new job, but fortunately for us, it just added a bit more drama into the episode. Just a bit.

Dung-dun-dun. Give me a dung-d-d-d-d-rub. I got one. What's the Law and Order? Bum-bum. Shung-ong. I have that one handy, too. Day one, I found out the VP that I had interviewed with.

He was gone and there's a new guy for the first half of the day. An HR person does orientation and they give you like a slideshow of the history of space. 6. Slide 1. Elon Musk, the man, the myth, the meme. Slide 2, 2002. Elon founded SpaceX, a company obsessed with being first to Mars in El-Sugendo, California, which literally means the second. Slide 3. Our first rocket, the Falcon 1. It blew up. So to the second. And the third. But hey, the fourth one worked. Slide 4. The Falcon 9.

Finally, a rocket big enough to launch satellites and Elon's ego. Elon calls it revolutionary. Engineers call it 80 hours of overtime. Slide 5. Starship. Destination, Mars. Current status? Still exploding. This time in Texas. And finally, slide 6. Welcome to the mission. Translation. You now belong to SpaceX. Please leave your free thought and free time at home. But here's another water bottle.

This HR person was also like, oh, you should read Elon Musk's biography. It's a great read. And I was like, absolutely not. I actively know that I am going to work for SpaceX and that this person is not a person that I want to emulate. I knew that he was a bad person. I didn't want to read his biography because I didn't want to be as open-eyed about how bad a person he really is because it would affect my desire to work there and I wanted to work there so badly. And I wanted to want to work there. That was really hard and that was in itself a red flag.

I was like, I don't want to know anything beyond what I have to know about the CEO because I already know that he fucking sucks. But yeah, we were recommended to read his biography. There's copies of it in the SpaceX Lending Library. Like, everybody loves it. You know, that's exactly what they tell employees at Jiffy Loop, too. You have to read Steven Spinelli Jr.'s biography. It is so good.

Yeah. And the workers are like, Stephen Who? I don't know who that guy is. Spinelli? Who the fuck is Stephen? I imagine he's the guy who started Jiffy Loop. Am I correct? He's one of the co-founders.

Yeah, but he's not. I can pull up a factor, too, when needed. It's a brilliant one, Liz, and our listeners will use it. There are people who work there who are just like die-hard Elon fanboys and, like, work at SpaceX because they love him, not because they love space. And they talk about the Elon algorithm, which is the dumbest thing in the world. It's so stupid. It's five-step methodology.

Number one is question every requirement. Number two is delete the unnecessary part or process. Step number three is simplify, accelerate, and then, to meet. Oh my God, genius. It's not novel, but it's called the Elon algorithm and they literally have it plastered on walls so you can see it from like any location. And people will talk about it and like hashtag Elon Algo, bro. Like, oh my God, shut the fuck up. But they did tell me that every company talk that he's given since the beginning is recorded and you can go watch them and you should go watch them. And I didn't because I find him like painfully difficult to listen to. I think he's

the least charismatic human being on the planet. And I don't know how he has convinced people that, like, he's charismatic enough to convince people that he's charismatic. And Paige's first day at SpaceX continues. And then after orientation, which was the first half of the day, I had lunch with my new team. That was kind of fun. The love bombing phase was like,

we're so pumped to have you here. And this guy was like, every person that works here, like no matter what level they are, is a vital part of the mission. So, like, treat people with respect, Like, I love that message. In practice, that's not how they are, but, like, that's when they start, you know, it's the mission, it's the mission. It's all about the mission.

And like all cults, the mission is always intoxicating. The mission, the mission, the mission. I remember my first time being in a meeting where they were like, you know, we're not going to get to Mars with this. And I was like, they're fucking talking about Mars as if it's a real thing. Like, that's so cool. They talk about Mars a lot. It makes the special sci-fi re-react. reality in a way, where you're like, I am actually working on something that, like, is

intended to go to Mars. Page was part of a team that handles ground software. And what is that, you ask? Ground software is the system that's used across the entire company. So it's on the launch pads. It controls all the launch automation. It controls the dragon capsule, which is the thing that carries the astronauts and or cargo to the ISS. So ground software is the platform that all of control automation goes through and, like, actually how people directly interact with the vehicles and like the valves and pumps on the launch pad it's also used like at every single phase of testing and then the first meeting that I was in was like an entire team

meeting and the VP that I no idea who this guy was but this was my first impression of him was like nobody likes ground software we want to get rid of it and I was like oh I just started here on the ground software team but like that was the directive from above but like we're not going to get to Mars with this. Like when we get to Mars or we can still be using ground software, and probably they're still using it now. So I'm in danger from day one. Are they going to cut my team? Am I going to get laid off because they don't want to staff this team anymore? Like, why would they have hired me if that's the case? Do I really feel like they're going to axe ground software? No. That's not going to happen, but they still tell you that. But this is a

common threat that cult-like companies make that the guillotine is always hanging over your head. One day, very soon, you might get fired. My first couple of weeks were really hard because I don't feel like I'm being adequately on boarded. Starting a new job is hard anyway, and they just expect you to know everything already without teaching you anything. So a lot of extra hours trying to learn the background

of the things that I was being asked to do, and then there's this expectation that you know everything, and if you don't know something, then you're dumb. And so day-to-day, you know, I would cry at my desk because this is so hard and I'm not getting any support and I'm just expected to know everything and people are really mad when they need help with something and you don't know how to fix it. It creates a fear around asking questions and so I would like spend at least an hour trying to find an answer myself.

I remember talking to my husband and being like, this is so scary. Just because it was such a heavy lift to move here and start this job and he was like, you don't have to stay there if it's not right for you. Don't feel like you have to wait it out and suffer if it's not the right place. But she was incentivized to stay. At least that's what she was told. Well, that's at least what the carrot the dangled kept telling her. The stock options, which I don't think there's anything wrong with offering people stock options,

but the carrot that they dangle is at some point Starlink is going to go public. And then, you know, all of our SpaceX stock will have some portion of Starlink stock. Like, I will get so much money, and if the mission doesn't sell it for you because it feels like it's so far off, then any day now, like, you're going to be super rich, so stay for the money. Starlink is SpaceX's satellite internet business. And yes, Elon's been dangling. The Starlink will go public any day now for years and years and years. But here's the catch. See, taking your public would mean actual accountability.

Shareholders, quarterly reports, regulators asking questions that he might not want to answer by keeping star. By keeping Starlink private, well, Elon controls everything. Pricing, partnerships, who gets service, who doesn't, without anyone looking over his shoulder. It's Elon's golden goose. So will Starlink ever IPO? Sure, right after Mars is colonized and Tesla's self-driving cars actually work. That's one element that kept Page around, but another one was being amongst like-minded individuals. I've never been like great at making.

friends. I was never like the friend that would get invited over somewhere after school, but I felt flooded with friendship and affection with the people that I worked with at SpaceX. And I would actually hang out with people outside of work, but every conversation was about SpaceX and like everything. It's kind of unhealthy to have your entire social network be just people you work with. It's so much a part of your identity. If I don't work at SpaceX, I'm just a regular person who doesn't matter. I mean, they claim that they have such high standards for hiring. so you already feel like you're coming in better than the rest of the world because not everybody can be in this position.

They really are good at convincing you that this is the only place that you can do something meaningful. And so when you start looking for jobs outside, you're like, this all sucks. I'm never going to feel as passionate as I did about this. And so you say. So all of these things motivated her to stay. But for Paige, it was something even more.

For me, it was actually the mission. I really did feel like I was contributing to something amazing. So like we're actually launching rockets. We're already getting things out of the Earth's atmosphere and into space. That was like a huge milestone and a huge deal. And a couple months later, they launched astronauts for the first time. And so you're like, these people's lives are in your hands based on the work that you do. You would stand in line behind an astronaut waiting for coffee and be like, this is so fucking weird.

That's why I'm here. That guy's life is in my hands. Okay, so obviously SpaceX is around to create shirts and water bottles, but another element of the company. is launching rockets into space. Which, admittedly, is very cool. It is cool. You know, as a child in elementary school, I'm older than you, so you probably don't remember. But they used to bring in the TVs, and we would all watch the space shuttle launches live.

So, yeah, it's cool. And now, Tyler Dating Himself on another episode of Tyler Dating Himself. Everybody watched SpaceX launches. People were crowded around Mission Control watching, and congratulations. Like, we did it. there's such a like clear visual of what your work is doing and your ones and zeros are going to space like that's incredible and so after every launch they would distribute mission patches so you have a specific mission patch for the mission and then it has your employee number embroidered on it it's not like your employee ID number but it's like I'm number 6,999 and then you know the next launch like 700 people have left or whatever and so you like watch your number go down and it's kind of like your indexes. in the hierarchy. With the dream of one day breaking into the top 100, the inner circle.

The SpaceX promised land. Cults, they do love a hierarchy. Yeah, they do. And we do love some ads, don't we? Oh, ads, ads, ads, ads, the ads, the ads, the ads, the ads. You know, let's be real. All right, mental health care can feel like a maze. and with about 23% of adults dealing with a mental illness these days,

yeah, that's about 59 million people. This is not a small issue. And that's why we are really loving our newest sponsor, Rula. They're actually making it easier for people to get the help they need. Rula is an online mental health matchmaker. They make therapy easy to access, to understand, and to stick with. I mean, we know therapy has been life-changing for a lot of our guests and for us personally. Mm-hmm.

True. I love therapy, and it took me a while to find a therapist that works for me. And that's what Rula does. See, they match you with a therapist who fits your needs, and they make it transparent, and they offer all kinds of therapy styles, and it's affordable. So if you've never tried therapy, you're sort of nervous about it. Rula is a great place to start. They make the first step so much easier.

You fill out a very detailed intake form, and they really care about matching you with the right person. Right. And that's why thousands have already trusted Rula to support them on their journey towards improved mental health and overall well-being. So head on over to Rula.com. You can do slash an occult and get started today. After you sign up, they are going to ask where you heard about them. So please support our show. Tell them we sent you. Go to Rula, R-U-L-A-com, slash in-a-cult, and take the first step towards better mental health today. Mm-hmm. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. This episode of Was I in a Cult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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Just wanted to... Because they are. There's not much in my pockets. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states. Just to say that really fast. Progressive casualty insurance companies and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states. Nice.

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. Okay, let's talk about kids and money, which is not a conversation. most six-year-olds are having, unless, of course, you're Tyler's kid. It's true. I mean, my son's already negotiating his bedtime, like it's shark tank. So, yeah, I figured why not start teaching him about actual money? And that's where Greenlight comes in. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made just for families.

You can send money to your kid's wallet, keep an eye on their spending, and they learn how to actually manage it. And what I love is that it's real. But say, my son gets to make all these small choices like saving for a toy or deciding whether that $7 candy is really worth it. I use it with my stepdaughter too, especially the chores feature. She gets rewarded when she knocks stuff off her list. And honestly, it's kind of put the damn sticker chart to shame. Uh-huh.

No fans gold stars, but move over. So 1990. There's a new kid in town. It also teaches kids big picture stuff like saving, spending wisely, and even. investing with us, the parents in the driver's seat. Greenlight makes it so much easier to have those money conversations that honestly, most of us never had growing up. Millions of parents and kids use Greenlight to build lifelong financial skills together.

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So obviously, you have to be pretty smart to work at SpaceX. I mean, the term rocket scientist is an actual term for a reason. And SpaceX employees are, of course, smart. But they apparently have to be approved by the main leader himself. Elon. Elon. Which is short for Elongate. Elon.

Elon Musk. It just feels weird even to say it. Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Sorry. Let's get a few more of those. Everything about him is weird. Elon Musk.

Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Elon Musk. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Elon Musk.

That sounds like Jabba the Hutt saying a Star Wars character's name. Elon Musk. You must die, Elon Musk. But hey, everybody. What's up with Elon Musk? I haven't seen him on the island lately. You guys know about this guy, Elon Musk? Anyways, Elon Musk.

They hire a very specific type of person who's willing to give everything to this. They really like to hire new grad. because they're young and pliable and haven't had enough life and work experience to learn to set boundaries yet. And they're generally desperate to prove themselves. The culture of SpaceX is that no matter what level you are, it seems like you're always desperate to prove yourself. And so you're expected to work 50 or more hours a week. And I think 50 hours was probably a light week for me. On bad weeks, it would be closer to 80, which is insane. I would be working in, in the morning before I go to work, I would work a full day, I would go home, I would get my laptop

out again after dinner, like, just working around the clock. I was working weekends. I felt like if I'm not there to respond to something that I could easily be replaced with someone who will. And so I can't really have an outside life. People are living the majority of their waking lives here. Like the building is always open. There's all these things to just like keep you there because the longer you're in the building, the longer you're producing output for them. There's two cafeterias, and they serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner. There's people serving food all the time because people are there insane hours. It's hard for me because I have celiac disease, so I have to, like, be prepared with my own food and snacks all day, every day.

I don't have enough energy to meal prep for the week because I'm here all the time, and there's nothing here that I can eat, and I can't afford to get sick. now because you know the mission needs me um a couple months in i i was like just feeling awful so i made an appointment with a doctor to be like there's something seriously wrong with me i'm dying i'm always tired i have no energy i have no joy and they gave me one of those mental health questionnaires and it turns out i was super fucking depressed and i was in a really high stressed job and always kind of in survival mode because you always feel like you have to prove yourself over and over again, especially at SpaceX, I think, and especially as a woman at SpaceX. It was eye-opening to be like, oh, thank God I'm not dying, but like, how did I not

notice that I had gotten so depressed over the first six months of working here? It was just, it was really scary how quickly it happens and how hard it is to get out of that pit. Yes, depression sucks. It's, it's depressing. Depression is depressing. Yeah, it is depressing. Depression is depressing. That's kind of the whole thing about it. So for Paige, her life, well, it wasn't her own. You see, when everything is about the mission, about serving the cause, your own needs tend to disappear.

Culture is set from the top. Yeah, Elon would often talk about his maniacal sense of urgency. And so, like, every single deadline was an emergency. And so, like, you're working around the clock because this deadline won't push. but the deadlines are fake, but the workload is still the same. You have to work as if he's actually doing this thing tomorrow. So that's, you know, your job is at stake if you don't do this thing. Your job is at stake if you're not seen working at your desk at least 12 hours a day.

And everybody who succeeds at SpaceX, people who are like aggressive and pushy and try to emulate him in a way that succeeds there. People generally were a lot happier when he was distracted by Tesla or purchasing Twitter or whatever else. Because when he gets really hands-on, it just makes things really difficult. Yeah, like, he just gets in the way. And then he'll, like, post something on Twitter

and then overnight people will have their entire job function changes. So it's just, like, really weird to have to follow him on Twitter to know what you're going to do when you come into work tomorrow. Yep. Following your boss on Twitter was a SpaceX requirement. So, like, you have to follow his Twitter. And so that means that all of the bullshit, that he says is also just thrown at you all the time because there's no filter in between

what's SpaceX directives and what's a shit post or shit posting. But we compiled this whole anthology of some of his worst tweets in the last year or two at the time and they're pretty gross, you know, whatever. And half of his comments are like, I'm going to start Tits University and seize get degrees. Titts University, he said, stood for Texas Institute of Technology and Science. T-I-T-T-S. Okay, I get it. This was a tweet from October 2021, and three years later, he still hadn't let the wildly funny joke die. In February of 2024, he tweeted,

Should I make Texas Institute of Technology and Science Real? It would, of course, have advanced social studies, too. A-S-S. He's 12 years old, isn't he? He sounds like butt-head. He's like, hey, butt-head. Ass. I just made a class name, ass.

Happy 12th birthday, Elon. You thought my jokes were bad. Like, that Tits University joke came up in so many meetings, and, like, you're sitting there like, okay, explain the joke to me, please, because what are we talking about here? It's just really uncomfortable. And as the king goes, well, so goes the kingdom. The fact that harassment comes from the CEO himself,

and then everybody else tries to emulate him, and then echoes that, and so the behavior just kind of permeates the entire culture. There's a thing called the Nugginchug where you, like, eat a lot of chicken nuggets and drink a lot of beer or something, and it's part of the SpaceX, like, frat party scene. And so I feel like any company that's promoting that amount of alcohol consumption,

and I feel like it sets you up for being in a dangerous place in the workplace. There were a lot of people who like had sexual harassment experiences with direct supervisors and oral peers, mentors, and people will make like subtle comments that on the surface in a vacuum don't necessarily feel like sexual harassment, but then there are people who are like known for saying creepy things to a lot of people. And there are a lot of people who are like in a position of power who will use that to physically intimidate you. So I had an experience where, like, a manager of an adjacent group to mine

was sitting really closely to me alone in a corner leaning over my computer of making a creepy comment about something that was on my screen. And I just felt really, like, icky. But in a way that I was like, I can't really articulate this into an HR report because, like, being one of, like, very few women in the company, I was often isolated from other women. So I didn't have somebody else to talk to about the red flags that I had been seeing. Paige had been at the company for over four years at this point.

Yeah, and she found herself placed in a new department. And we were in like a different building from the main campus. I was closer in proximity to a lot more women there because it was such a small team. Probably 200 people in the building. The other four women were just like easily able to be identified. Now the standard American workplace is generally about 47% female. In tech, it's less. It's typically about 20.

6% female. But for SpaceX, it's much lower. About 14% female. The rest of them go to Tits University and study ass. And so once I did move to a department where I was just sitting in closer proximity with more women, we started sharing those stories and just realizing how bad it was. So a lot of people reported getting groped, both inside and outside of work, There is a director who's, like, well-known for sleithing on interns, which is really gross.

Yeah, somebody invited a friend of mine to a BDSM party. Who knows why, but it was completely inappropriate. And he started going into detail about how he, like, spanking other engineers. And, like, it was just really bizarre. And nothing was ever done about it. She was told to be more careful about her language because she apparently was asking for him to go on that whole detailed thing. There was an engineer who made a creepy comment to a friend of mine about egg juice dripping on his face and like slurping egg juice. It was really gross.

That coupled with like a couple of things that he had said to me and a couple of things that I had heard about him saying to another person, you know, finally was enough momentum to be like, this is actually a problem. But the problem is that so many people don't report it because it seems so small on its own. And they would report them and not be heard out. We're told to focus on the mission. Stop distracting people and focus on the mission. The mission, the ever-present justification for inappropriate behavior in cults. We must be right back. We won't be Elon.

Hi, I'm Jesse Prey, and I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder. where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative-driven, and deeply researched, perfect for the true-crime officinados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so-called Black Widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton and Dwayne Johnson,

where family ties masked a sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Sexual harassment in the workplace, of course, has forever been a problem. SpaceX, sadly, you ain't the first to that milestone by any means. Yeah, but the rot always spreads faster when the guy in charge is the one holding the match, which I understand that's a mixed metaphor, but I'm going with it. I made friends with a couple of the other women in the org, and a friend of mine had, this idea for like reporting microaggressions so basically like sexual harassment isn't

somebody openly groping you it can be like a lot of really small subtle things that build up and the people who are the worst offenders or the people who are getting away with it and a lot of ways that they get away with it is by being sneaky about it and so there are a lot of times when you're like wow I just had a really weird interaction with this person like am I overreacting and it's hard to justify going to HR about something like that because because the activation energy is so high for, like, I'm going to make an HR report, and then what am I going to say?

Like, a guy made a comment about my graph that seemed like he was actually making a comment about his penis. Like, that's up for interpretation. It's really hard to quantify that. And so her idea that was actually getting some traction was, like, a way to aggregate those types of situations. And if it is truly, like, this person misspoke

and really didn't mean anything by it, then at review time, their manager would see, the cumulative negative feedback that people had given this person and be able to use that to notice these trends. But I have become pretty good friends with the person who had that idea. And so I was talking to her a lot. And so one time we were like walking around to go for coffee and Elon was being particularly shitty on Twitter at the time. So I'm not exactly sure which one she's referring to, but it could have been the one where he said that Rob Whiten's profile picture looked like he had just came. or when he, quote, joked that Jeff Bezos couldn't get it up.

To orbit, Beavis. Or the time he promised to impregnate Taylor Swift and guard her cat, super strange. Or when he posted a meme that said, Ladies, mansplaining is short for man explaining. Thanks. That's what it is. That's what it is? Money can buy a lot of things.

It cannot purchase a sense of humor. You can't even lease it. Amen, Tyler. And so we were just complaining about that. And by that point, I had decided in my head, like, I'm going to give it five more really horrible things, five more strikes, and then I'm going to look for another job. And that happened actually very quickly. But so it was one of those times where we were just, like, venting about one of the other horrible things that we had seen. And I was like, well, at least like Gwen is, you know, kind of on our side.

So Gwen Shotwell is the president and COO. she's been there since the beginning and my excuse the whole time was like I don't really work for him I kind of work for her because she's the brains behind the whole operation so I had a meeting with Gwen and the head of DEI

who now has a different title because DEI is too woke and because they've abandoned DEI efforts but Gwen would insist that like she didn't understand the term microaggressions and she doesn't get why people feel this way and she just doesn't understand our experiences even though

by all accounts, she must have been there. She doesn't understand power dynamics. She doesn't understand why it's not okay for a manager of a department to try and hit on interns because there's such a huge power dynamic, but she doesn't get that or claims not to get that. And I just realized at that point, like, she might not be on my side. You know, you see yourself in the success of other women who have forged ground for you and expect them to uplift you after them. and when they don't, it's devastating.

It is devastating and sadly common. And with her 0.3% stake in SpaceX, as of May 2025, Gwen's net worth became $1.2 billion. So I don't think she understands anything, micro. Shortly thereafter, an article came out that incriminated the company's holy leader and exposed what many insiders had already suspected. And then when the business insider article about the flight attendant came out who had previously worked at SpaceX and had been sexually harassed by Elon while on the plane, she was encouraged to get massage therapy certified because obviously a flight attendant needs to massage a grown-ass man.

And then he propositioned her and offered her a horse in exchange for sex. And the company ended up paying her $250,000. to shut up about it and leave. And I hope she's living her best life and is not traumatized. But hearing that in the wake of all the other things that we had been hearing and experiencing ourselves was like, that was not a productive day at work. But don't you worry now, Elon handled that accusation like a true visionary. With honor, class, dignity when he responded to a tweet later that said,

Hi, Chad, long time, no, see. Fine. If you touch my wiener, you can have a horse. That's, he said that. He actually said that. But head. What a child. Like, I don't even know children that are that annoying.

They're bullies and children. They're bullies and children. But Gwyn's response when the email came out was so gross. I have worked with him for 20 years and I've never seen this before. Like, she couldn't possibly understand that because she's more powerful than a person. person who's trapped on a plane. A couple, maybe the day after the Business Insider article or the day after Gwyn's response, I just was fed up.

I was like every single time anything happens will have a single like ad hoc women's forum and like they really pretend that they hear us and then nothing ever changes because they just intended for people to get to focus on the next mission and forget. My little coffee group of four women in my building went on several walks that day to just be like, what do we do? Like every single time something starts and stops, there's no follow through on anything. And I just could tell. Nothing is ever going to come of this. So I remember really vividly my book club had a meet up that week. And I was just sitting in the corner, sobbing in the dark. And I just texted my little group of friends, okay, hear me out. I was like, please help me do something

about this. Like, we are stronger together. We have enough numbers to like make a difference here. like, please. And so I came up with the idea that we need to collectivize. We need to do a walkout and then people were uncomfortable with the idea of a walkout because it's too public. We couldn't possibly get enough critical mass of people brave enough to stand up and walk out of the building that they couldn't fire everybody. And so we decided to like instead write a letter because you kind of have to have like a list of demands. So, you know, we'll start there. And if the letter doesn't work, then we'll like escalate to a walkout. But first step will give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they'll hear us out

and maybe they'll actually want to make some changes. This, of course, felt like the correct way to make changes, but what I didn't expect was that it was going to take over the next few years of my life. And as brave as many of Paige's coworkers wanted to be, most of them stayed silent. Because you know what they say about bravery, Liz. What?

I have this why I said you know what they say about bravery. I don't know what they say about bravery, Liz. They say bravery isn't the absence of fear, but the strength to act in spite of it. Oh, that's what they say. We'll be back next week with part two of Page's story, where we learn that questioning the mission, challenging the leadership,

and standing up for your values can be the most dangerous job of all. Once again, we'd like to thank the Patreon listeners who support us in many ways. You can listen to the episodes ad-free so you don't have to hear Liz talk about quince anymore, although we do like quince. essentially what you're doing is you're helping us pay our wonderful assistant editor, Greta. You're keeping her afloat. And honestly, this podcast, because without her, we wouldn't be able to do this.

So we do have some people that we'd like to think who just joined our Patreon. We really are appreciative of you guys, Jonathan Hampton, Shytown, Megan Lowry, Carolyn Littleworth, Amy Washington, Karen Dunn, Jessica Geogamath. And Sarah Moem. Thanks, guys. Thank you guys. Was I an occult is brought to you by Liz and Tyler. Nickname goes here.

Budhead me some. Liz Titch University. Obviously, D's get degrees. Oh, God. Fucking idiot. And the fucking idiot, Rob Pair. And of course, Of course, the very saintly Greta Stromquist, who is just like this picture-perfect little thing

that does our assistant editic. Yes. She stays far, far away from us for obvious reasons. But she does her job, and that's all that matters. Now go build a cult and get 15 more people to build a cult, and oh my God, the rapture's coming tomorrow. Don't spare my life Crucify me This September, CBS hits are streaming free on Pluto TV For this month only, you can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love. From the courtroom drama of Madlock to the heroics of fire country.

Go back to where it all began in India. CIS origins or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts all for free full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto TV stream now pay never