Was I In A Cult? - Sufism - Part 1: “Forced at 15”

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Sara Tasneem's journey began in Boulder, Colorado, where she was born into the Islamic faith. However, at the age of five, her parents divorced, causing her faith to split as well. Her mother distanced herself from the religion, while her father delved deeper, immersing himself in a Sufi group that would soon dominate Sara's existence. Then, at the age of 15, Sara's life took an unexpected turn when her father brought her to a conference led by the group's sheikh in Los Angeles, California. Little did she anticipate that this seemingly ordinary weekend would change the trajectory of her life in ways beyond imagination. Find Sara: https://tasneemsfadvocacy.home.blog/ Follow us: Instagram: @wasiinacult Support Us: https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult Have a story to share on our show? Email us: [e-mail] This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/INACULT and get on your way to being your best self.

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode, solely belong to her and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. That pretty much covers everyone. I could tell that he was like looking at me and he was like, well, I don't want to wait for a long engagement. And I was like, well, I don't want to wait for a long engagement. And I was like, oh, okay. I didn't understand what he was talking about.

It was a little bit confusing. Nobody told me what was going on. So then, my dad basically told me that I was going to get married to that guy. And I was going to be married to him that night. A. Welcome to Was I in a Colt? A show that gives badasses who have been through cults and cultic experiences a chance to tell their story and take their power back. And today's guest could not embody that more. I'm Liz Ayakusse. And I'm Tyler Miesem. And I'm the the the the the the I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the tisam. Miesom. Miesom. Miesem. Miesem. I'm the tisam. I'm tie. I'm tie. I'm tie. I'm ti. I'm ti. I'm ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. I. I. I. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I. I. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. M. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm t. I'm ti. I'm ti. I'm ti. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm tell their story and take their power back. And today's guest could not embody that more. I'm Liz Ayakusy. And I'm Tyler Miesum.

And while we are both creatives outside the podcast space, we love doing this show for many reasons. One of them being we both have our own cultic experiences. Mine was a Hollywood acting class turned self-help cult. Which is still, I really still can't get my head around that. One day maybe I will. And I was an ex-Morman. I am an ex-Morman. I was a Mormon.

And guys, I finally interviewed Tyler. So his story will be its own episode, sooner than later. So how was it, Tyler, to have to sit across and endure my painful questioning? One of the levels of Dante's hell, it was what it was Liz. It was a colonoscopy without the medication. Without the sleeping pills. Yeah.

Shoveing the shit up your ass-all? Now today's guest came to me through another one of our guests and I am so grateful she did. Her resilience is truly inspiring. I was blown away. And what cult is it? Well, we'll let her tell you. Purify me. Don't spare my life. to spear my life. Crucify me. My name is Sarah Tasnim, and I live in San Francisco Bay Area.

My family history is very complicated. My mom was born in Guyana, but she was born as a Muslim. My mom won a scholarship when she was 16 years old to go study Islamic studies. She went to Saudi Arabia, and my dad was also there with his family visiting, and my grandmother saw my mom and said, I want that woman to marry my son. My grandfather then told my mom that she had to accept the marriage, otherwise she would be disowned. I think she was 19 at the time. I was born in Boulder, Colorado, 1980. I was the first of three. I always remember kind of being in the group.

So they did these thickers, which is basically like meditation, where they chant the names of God in Arabic. And they sit around in a circle, and from a very early age, I remember sitting on my dad's lap, and they would be doing the chanting as a community kind of a thing. I think early childhood was actually semi-normal up until about the age of five, and that's when my parents split. Part of the reason that things didn't work out is because of religion.

My mom, even though she was born into Islam, when she came to the United States, kind of saw another way of living and she just didn't want to be to be a part of the religion. So she started going to nursing school. She took a job as a stewardess, so she would have us like every other weekend. You know being a stewardess in the 80s seems much more glamorous than it is now for some reason. Even the term stewardess has of its allure in the golden age. And it's funny because people keep getting bigger,

yet the seat seemed to keep getting smaller. Like they haven't quite figured that one out yet. But while Sarah's mother was jetting around the world and going to nursing school, she fell away from the religion she grew up in. Her father, on the other hand, well, he got more and more entrenched into religion and started following a Sufi group, which at the time wasn't very well known here in the United States, but there were quite a few followers internationally. Sufism is the mystical approach to Islam focusing on a deep personal connection with Allah.

Practitioners known as Sufis pursue spiritual enlightenment through inner experiences, meditation, and devotion. Yes, and there will be much more on this later. My dad ended up moving us to Colorado Springs, which was a lot further from my mom, and then we saw my mom even less. We moved to like a townhouse, and it was just my dad kind of caretaking for us at that time. And it seemed pretty stressful for him. It was hard for him being a single dad. But I do just remember him, like crying a lot and being really depressed. And then one day he told us, we're taking a road trip and we drove across the country to Woodstock, New York, where the Sheikh was visiting,

who was the leader of the international group, and he was visiting from Turkey. And so that was a big deal. Go ahead, Tyler, lay it on us. Tell us all about Woodstock. Oh, okay. Woodstock. Woodstock is a charming little town in the Catskill Mountains of Upstate New York. I've actually road trip through that area. It's very the the the the the the the the the the th. It's the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their their their their their their their their tra.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea. their their their their their their their. It's charming little town in the Catskill Mountains of Upstate New York. I've actually road tripped through that area. It's very nice. Cheese shops, ice cream stores. Very lovely little town. That's it. Nothing else comes to mind.

I mean Woodstock, yes. Snoopy is a little friend, you know the little, little yellow bird. He was named after Woodstock. That's what I was thinking about, right? And while we were there, we were staying with this new woman who had five children. The group somehow decided it would be a good idea to blend families and the Sheikh basically married them. They got married under this religion, so we were all one family after that. And I just remember being really excited because we met our new stepbrothers and sisters and we were having a really good time. We were just kids playing and stuff and it seemed like

it was going to be a good change. And there we go a happy ending for once on was I and a cult. Thank you everyone for tuning in once again I'm you've used this joke before Tyler. Also you everyone for tuning in. Once again, I'm Tyler. Also, we're just a few minutes in. I'd probably save it for when it's a bit more believable. So who was the group exactly? They are a Sufi group and we can refer to them as the Naks. But they're basically a Sufi branch. It is a form of Islam, but some Muslims would say that it's not real Islam because the

Nakshbundis and Sufis in general believe in having a teacher teach you about how to be closer to God. And so in that sense, I would say it's a little bit of a departure from regular Islam where you have a relationship with God and nobody comes in between that relationship, between you and God. And so with Sufism, there's kind of a middle man, the teacher, a leader. And in this group, in particular, the teacher who my dad was following at first, he was based in Cyprus. So what he represented was basically like this middle of the road type of Islam.

He taught a lot about how spirituality is love and love is God. And so the path to God is love. Interesting how they positioned this as mainstream, yet it becomes a cult. Weird how that happens. A lot. So there's definitely a huge following in Turkey. And then they had like centers all over the world, Germany, there was a place in England, parts of Southeast Asia. In the United States, there was definitely thousands of followers, if not more than that, at

its height. A lot of the American members were generally seeking some kind of spirituality or guidance through the group. They didn't believe in capitalism and kind of shunned this idea of possessions and materialism, and you should be thinking more about the afterlife as opposed to this life. And also, like, suffering and punishment and things like that kind of went along with this idea of rejecting the world. And that suffering was like a good thing because it would bring you some kind of, I don't know, special level in the next world.

If I had a dollar for every cult that promises shit in the afterlife. You would have a lot of dollars. I don't know. You'd be rich, right? I'd be a cult leader with a lot of dollars. I don't know. You'd be rich, right? I'd be a cult leader. You'd be a cult leader with a lot of dollars. Tax-free dollars. Tax-free dollars. Tax-free dollars.

So they would go and get a bunch of followers and then open centers. And the centers were places of learning and I think would attract kind of a younger group of people and people could live there. It was kind of the hippie Islam experience. I don't think they ever forced anybody to give money, but of course people gave money. Well you're not forced to give money. No, just like you're not forced to marry a random woman with five kids. Or quit your job, or move to New City, or stop talking to your family, or get branded, or never wear pants, or go on all the retreats. You're never forced to do anything, Tyler. Coercion is manipulation's evil twin brother.

I think a big part of this group is that they were also apocalyptic, so they just believed that the end of the world was imminent and that it would happen during our lifetimes. And a prophet called Mahdi will come and there will be a war which will be followed by a period of peace and then after that period of peace there will be judgment and so we were taught about all that stuff pretty early on. That was like part of who we were I guess. You know we really need to make our was I called Doomsday Calendar. Except somebody made it for us. Yeah, somebody sent me a Doomsday Calendar, and I don't know who it is.

And it's really well put together. So if you did, if that was you, send us an email. Or send it to us again with your name on the calendar. But thank you. No, thank th thank th thank th thank th thank th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thn, than than than thi, than, than, it's, it's, it's, it's, th, th. thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. to, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, tho. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thooo. So, tho. So, thi. No, thank you. It's amazing. We will actually post about it on Instagram because it's quite good. So we went to Woodstock. My dad got married and then we all came back to Colorado Springs and we lived there as a family. My dad was a computer programmer.

He was working full-time. I was the evil kid because my mom had left. They called her a Sheetana, which just meant a she-devil. And so because I was her spawn, I guess I was also half-she-devil. I don't know if I was just always gonna be like this bad half-devil kid. I've been searching for the daughter of the devil himself.

I've been searching for an angel in white. Why have you been doing that? that's not, I've thi, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, thi. thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, I was tho, I was tho, I was tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, tho, tho, tho, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiaaa, thauuia, thaua, thia, thia, thi, thi, th? No, this, that's not. I've been looking for a woman who's a little of both. I've been looking for... I've been looking for... For the bird in flight. Is that not the larynx? Moving on. Forget it. That'll work.

I don't know. I know it now. I've been searching for an angel in white. I know, I know it now. I think I just always felt inadequate. I don't think I felt bad. I think I just felt like I wasn't doing enough. Don't worry, Sarah. You don't have to be a she-devil to feel like that. So I think at that time my dad had full custody of us.

My mom was from Guyana. I don't think she really knew to to to to to to to to to to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see us us us us to see us to see us to see us the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the don't think she really knew how to fight for us in court. My mom, she wanted to see us but my dad was not allowing her to and she threw a rock at the window and the police were called and we just we couldn't see our mom and it was really it was a disturbing incident but but after that things got extremely abusive in the household. And we were, myself and my brothers were physically abused. We were basically isolated from the rest of the family.

We weren't allowed to leave our room. We could only leave to go to school. My brother was locked in a basement. We were deprived of food at times. My dad carried out the punishments. He just became somebody else. It didn't seem like he was my dad anymore. There was no more empathy.

There was no more thought that we were his children. And there was a narrative that we were, we were bad kids. We were trying to break up their marriage, just like we had done with his previous marriage. We constantly just lived in a state of fear. So that that was going on for maybe a year and a half and one time I talked to my teacher because I think she could tell that there was something going on and she just sat me down at recess one day and was like what's going on at home you know she was very caring and I told her what was going on and I think maybe social services was

called because we got in really big trouble after that. So I do remember trying to get help but then every time I tried to get help it felt like I would get in more trouble so I just learned how to be really quiet. That really formed my ideas about what my place was in the world that I just really shouldn't speak up. So we just we have the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the try try try try try. try tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr tr tr tr tr tr tr tr. tr. try try try try try ttttttttttttttte tte te te te te to te to te to to to trou. tro tro tro tro place was in the world that I just really shouldn't speak up So we just survived. I guess that's what people do This show is sponsored by better help. Do you think there's any validity to that saying you know your parents are gonna mess you up whether they mean to or not? You know, I didn't but then I became my own parent and realized that it's kind of unavoidable. You're just the worst parent ever.

I'm in the top five. You're a good parent, Tyler. I'm a good father. I'm a very good father, yes. But on some level, you're doing things that you don't realize tha tha tha tha tho tho tho tho tho tho thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, you're doing thi, you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that's that's that's that's that's that's that you're that you're that you're that you're that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing things that you're doing things that you're doing things that Yeah, well, he's probably going to pin a lot on me, sure. Because we're all just a bunch of imperfect little humans trying to do our best in the world. Man, I gotta say, Tyler, it's hard sometimes. Yeah, and that's why there's professionals to help our children.

Or better yet, to help us, or mostly you, Tyler. Yeah, because if you can't fix your own car, well, hire a mechanic. And if you've never been to a mechanic, guys. The analogy is overplayed, it's enough. Look, just try therapy guys, okay? Because if you can't fix your kids, fix yourself. And the most stress-free way to do so is with better help. Better help is entirely online. It's super convenient. You just fill out a brief questionnaire and you get matched with a licensed therapist,

Pronto. Yep, you find a time that works best for your schedule. So whether you want to work on something specific or just improve your overall approach to life, better help. Become your own soulmate, whether you're looking for one or not. Visit Better Help.com slash in a cult today to get 10% off of your first month. That's Better Help, H-E-L-P.com slash, in a cult. Now go take care of your kids or your car, Liz, one of them. How do you open, like, the door to the front part? Is that the hood? Hey guys, thank you for listening to the show and if you haven't done so already,

we'd love if you could take a minute to rate and review us for whatever algorithm reason, it actually really helps. We demand you do it for his followers of this cult. No one's forced to do it, however. However, we don't force you to do it. their it. the the to do it. the to do it. the to do it. the the the to do it. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their. Is their is. Is their is. Is their is their is their is their is the the the the the the the th. Is. Is th. Is th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. the the th. th. the th. the the th. this cult. No one's forced to do it, however. However, we don't force you to do it. There is an afterlife if you do it. And generally our reviews are great, so thank you. Yeah, except for the one person who actually his review said, quote, with hosts who sound like they woke up too early, hate their jobs, haven't had enough coffee and aren't comfortable around each other. Which is strange strange if you look at me, I look so rested and Tyler and I, we just

love our job. And I'm on my fourth cup of coffee. And I farted in Tyler's mouth earlier this morning. I mean. Yeah, we're still working out the kinks around the comfort levels. All right, back to the story, Liz. And back to a story much more important than us. The religion at first wasn't like a prominent part of our lives. It was kind of in the background,

but it started getting a little bit weirder. I would say like maybe six months into their relationship. I didn't know why, but things went a little bit sideways with the family. We would travel a lot to New Mexico where the other kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind. to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. th. to to to to, to, to, the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. th sideways with the family. We would travel a lot to New Mexico where the other kind of center was and my dad got a little bit more involved with the leadership of the group. It was when this guy from Lebanon basically came out to be the leader out here in the United States. And that was the shake who we, my family, and I were most exposed to as children. He came out to California, to Palo Walto, around 1989.

And so that was the year that my dad moved the entire family to be closer to this new leader and to help kind of spread Sufism across the United States. So he packed up the three of his children. Five from his wife. And then the one more they had the th. And th. And th. And th. And th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, he that, he that that that that, he that, he that that, he that that, he that, he that, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th, he th. He th. He th. He the, the, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha, he came tha,. So he packed up the three of his children. Five from his wife. And then the one more they had together and moved to California. And that is one too. That is 11 humans. What vehicle did they drive? It was like the late 80s. It's probably like a minivan, you know with the middle seat piled out and just piles of chums. the thoe. that's thi. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the thi. the the the th. the the the the the the the the th. the one the one the one the one the one the one the one the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the.. Crumbs, lots of crumbs on the floor and no seat belts. No. Because that's the 80s.

That's how they rolled. So I think a day in the life of being in our group was, I would be in a public school in Fremont, California. Come back home, my dad would take us over to the Shakes house, me and my brothers and sisters, and step and step andthen we would just be kind of left at the Shake's house or at the mosque. We didn't have any type of friends at school, so we would just be around the shake and his family a lot, or we were supposed to help. And then we would maybe go to Thicker that night, like a lot of adults sitting around in a circle, chanting the names of God, and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thiiiiaqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq.a. And th. And th. And th. I. I's, thi. And, thi. I's, thi. I's, taq, taq, taqq, taqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq. So, th. Soh. Soh. Soh. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, t. And, t. We. Wea, t. Wea, t. Wea, t. Wea, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta,aqaqaqaqaqa'aqaqaqa,a,a,a,aqa,a,a,a,a,a,a, ta, ta, and, ta, t night, like a lot of adults sitting around in a circle chanting the names of God and the Sheikh would give a speech after that talking about the end of the world or how we could be better Muslims or just follow the religion better. There was always a feeling that we had to be

doing more than what we were doing. You had to pray five times a day. As far as praying five times a day, that is just kind of bare minimum. So it wasn't just praying five times a day, it was a lot more than that. It was prayers on top of the prayers that you had to do. There were a lot of daily practices. So the vicar is just repeating the names of God, so you would have kind of like a rosary. They like Hail Mary or something like that. Something like La Ilaha Ilah Ilala.

There's only one God but God. And you would say that a hundred times using a tuspi. It imbued like all aspects of our daily life. It was just a whole way of being. But as I look at that now and like, wow, that's a lot of stuff. Also the other the other the other purpose the other purpose the other purpose the other purpose purpose purpose purpose that that that that the other purpose purpose purpose that that that that that that that that that that Also, the other purpose of that was just to keep us so busy that you don't really have time to think about anything else. You're just constantly thinking of, oh, I'm missing this prayer, I'm missing this thing, or feeling that you're never devoted enough.

I was a pretty much a devout follower until there was always a feeling that people are looking at you and they can see what's in your head. They can see what's in your mind. There was like some idea that the shake could read your thoughts or could kind of get in your head. Hmm. So who was this mysterious mind reader? My impression of the shake was I was scared of him. Mostly I didn't know him. He was just this figurehead that we just had to like be very respectful of.

I want to say the shake at that time was probably in his 50s. He always looked old to me because he had this long white beard. So I think part of the reason why the shake was out here in California was to get money and to get big money, which he did. He connected with some very wealthy families in Los Angeles. So he would find these wealthy followers and get them roped in and they believed that would allow them to have, of course, a higher level in the afterlife. I swear to God I'm starting a fucking call. I'm just going to get a bunch of money from a bunch of rich people and tell them, hey, guys, if you don't do what I say, you're going to get your dick sucked by snakes in the afterlife. You know, it is about time we started a cult. We've been researching,

we've been doing the R&D. Time to move on to the action stage. What's our name? Eternal Happy Sonshine of the Nexium, t. t. t. t. Ixxxxxxxxx. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi of the Nexium children of God, Mormon, slash, heavenly gate. Poop Dix. Poop digs. We'll tighten. We'll work on it. Just got to add poop dicks then you know. Excellent. It really takes it to the next level.

But if you want a guaranteed place at the highest level of heaven. I'm talking about seventh level heaven. Please give to the shake. So you could sit a little bit closer to the shake. You might be able to massage his hand a little bit longer. So there were a lot of massages. I don't know what that was about. But everybody would like line up to give the shake, massage, shoulder massages, I don't know. It was a weird thing. Do you ever have to do that? Oh no, I couldn't touch men. Remember that would be a big no-no. I did get the privilege in honor of besiging his wife's hands and feet on occasion. So that was quite an honor. So they believed in following

the way of the Prophet Muhammad, like to the letter. So if this was the way that the Prophet dressed back in in their. th th th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-a thoe thozyuiiiou thublea. that that would that would that would that would that would would would would would would that would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was the letter. So if this was the way that the Prophet dressed back in the 14th century, then that's how they were supposed to dress here today. So the men in the group, especially the shake, would wear turbans, which are basically cones wrapped with long pieces of fabric, long robes, long beards. If you would picture Moses in your head, that is what the shake looked like. And this way of dressing was called Sunnah. And then the women, we had to cover our hair.

We were supposed to cover our skin, of course. We couldn't go swimming because I couldn't wear a swimsuit. I wanted to run track, but I couldn't run track because I had to wear shorts for track. The boys could just do whatever they wanted. They could go run and climb trees and do all those kind of things and then if we did them then we would get in trouble. You know I'll handle the sexism callouts from now and out because frankly Liz is just tired of them. And because you're a man, I'm sure the people will hear them better. Well, what, young lady. And also, you know, if you'd have given me that snake fallatio line, I think it probably would have landed better.

Oh yeah, because it was just too vulgar coming from a woman. Good girl. The sexes were very much separate from each other, so there would be like a woman section and a man. The women weren't really allowed to interact with the men. I mean, we were just told you're not even supposed to look a man in their eye. I think we were just taught that men were dangerous in general, so we just had to protect ourselves at all times from the danger of men. Also,. They have a whole kind of population of women who may not be educated. They really haven't worked outside, been at home taking care of multiple

children. As James Round said, it's a man's world. But it would be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl. You're just going to quote music lyrics all day, Tyler? It's easier than having an original thought. Also that song was released in 1966. That's 57 years ago. I mean, it can't still be a man's world, right? Like 57 years later. Um, what?

What? Mm-hmm? Hmm. We should cut her off? Look, we gave you guys Barbie? Hmm. The 57 years later you should cut her off. Look we gave you guys Barbie. We allowed Taylor Swift to be in the Super Bowl. What more do you want? Well, you know, I was thinking about the.

Cut her off. As women, we were just kind of there to serve and obey. We were supposed to help out with the cooking. So we were constantly in the kitchen. We would have to like do jobs forthe cooking, so we were constantly in the kitchen. We would have to like do jobs for the shake, so my sister had to do babysitting for the shakes family, or my brothers, they had to like work on his house. Seems the boys didn't have it so easy either. You know, I'm talking about digging trenches, pouring concrete walls,

doing all the hard labor kind of stuff. There was a lot of child labor going on in the group as well. That's kind of what our daily life looked like. And the isolation was strong. Yeah, so outsiders of the group were basically considered non-believers. So we didn't really have a lot of interaction with people outside of the group anyways, but we did go to school, but like my public school experience was probably like not a normal public school experience because

I did feel so isolated. We were living in a predominantly white community and I was like the weird brown kid who wore crappy clothes to school. I was wearing long, long skirts, long shirts, and then at some point I think I had to cover my hair. I just remember just being embarrassed pretty much most of the time. The only way I would escape this was to just read, so I read a lot of books. I would go to the library and just check out a lot of books. I think I would just read to escape to kind of get away from this idea, this life life. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I, thi. thi. thi. I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I to to to to to to thi. I thi. I thi. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. thr. thr. thr. thrown to to throooooooooooooooooooooooee. And, toe. And, toe. And, I th from this idea, this life. And I think I would make up stories in my head about where I was and dissociate as a way of coping. And like any good cult, well, one of the tasks is getting more people in.

They recruited a lot of young people, people that were just kind of looking for spirituality. And they were kind of enticed by the musical side of the group where you know they would do a lot of singing and chanting and that was very appealing I think so they would come in and they would say oh wow this is so nice and so different not what we expected Islam to be they were lost and they just needed help to get on to the right path and so our group was the right path to attract a large swath of people. And they did dive into the African-American population. And so they did a lot of recruitment, you know, proselytie to the black people.

Preachings were that, you know, God created one race. There was no separation of race. I think a lot of them joined because they felt that, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you that, you that, you that, you that, you know, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you that, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you that, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, the, you know, you know, you know, you know, the, you know, you know, the, you know, thea, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, God created one race. There was no separation of race. I think a lot of them joined because they felt that, you know, this was a different way that didn't have a lot to do with, like in the nation of Islam, they call, you know, white people devil. So it kind of rejected that idea that one race was either superior or inferior to the other, but however, within the group, that was a very different story. There was a hierarchy within the group. The African-American folks were generally designated to the role of security or drums or musical instruments

or things that were just very biased. The women, they were treated as though they were less than. They were used as house slaves, basically, and they weren't given any wages. That was really prevalent among the black folks in part of this community. There was just a general feeling, and this is probably true across most colonized worlds,

that the lighter you are, the better you are, so just general structural racism. The prominent race was Turkish or Arab because they were the closest to the prophet was an Arab, so then they, you know, the Arabs always claim favoritism. And then from there, like Turkey because that was where Sheikh Nazim was from, the Arabs always claim favoritism. And then from there, like Turkey, because that was where Sheikh Nazan was from, the big grandshake. And so the highlight of the group was that the spirituality would really lead you to God. Okay, and so following all the prayers was supposed to get you on this path

to eventual enlightenment. And so as a student, you would first learn how to do the prayers. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the the the the the their their, and, and, and, their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, their, their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, you, you, you, their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their you on this path to eventual enlightenment. And so as a student, you would first learn how to do the prayers and you would then start practicing the prayers and then as you progressed into the religion, then other things would come up like marriage. And that was something that the Sheikh talked about a lot, that marriage was half of your faith. And if you were a man and you had donated to the Sheikh talked about a lot, that marriage was half of your faith. And if you were a man and you had donated to the cause quite a bit, then you would most likely get married to a virgin woman. And then the other part of that was like the grooming that we experienced as girls was that we were supposed to be ultimately wives and mothers. And really men in general, you, you know, you, the thi, you, the thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and that, and the the the the that, and the the the the the the the the the the the the that the the that that that that that that that that that that, and that that their the that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and the the the the the the their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, and their, their, their, their, you the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same thing thing thing, you the same thin, you theeateateateateat, you, you th.eat, you thin, you thin, you the, you the same thin, you to be ultimately wives and mothers. And really, men in general, you're just supposed to obey them.

So like, if you get married and your husband asked for sex, you're supposed to give it to him no matter what. That's your duty as a wife. I was told specifically that I couldn't use birth control because birth control was, it was against God, and if God wanted you to be pregnant, you would get pregnant. So that was my earth control talk. And so this is what I experienced from early age. When I was 12 years old, that was the first time that my dad tried to force me into

a marriage. Did she say 12 years old? 12 years old, Tyler. Oh, Jesus. We'll be right back. Sometime in the early 80s, ARIO Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced, middle of the night landing. This is my friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks.

And he's telling me about how he discovered a real-life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed blue velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out of the way places to bring in his cocaine. My name is Joshua Davis, and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnamtown, North Carolina.

There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell but does the truth even exist. Welcome to Varnamtown. Varnam Town is available wherever you listen to tell, but does the truth even exist? Welcome to Varnamtown. Varnomtown is available wherever you listen to podcasts. I was 12 years old. The Sheikh told my dad that he had to get rid of all of his older kids so that he could have a normal life with his younger kids. So all of us older kids were sent to live with different followers in the group. I was then sent to live with my grand p. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their to to to to told. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. Where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where where their their their their were sent to live with different followers in the

group. I was then sent to live with my grandparents, so there was a little bit of separation. My grandmother did follow the group, but she didn't follow as strict as my dad. And I was happy to be there because I wasn't always in trouble all the time. I wasn't getting abused. And I got to do things that I couldn't have done before. Like I got to have to have to have the to have the to have the the to have the the their. I was their. I was their. I was their. I was their. I was the, I was their, I was, I was always always always always always always always always always always always always always always, I was, I was always always always, I was always, I was, I was, I was, I was always, I was always always, I was always, I was always, I was always always, I was always, I was always always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was always, I was, I was always, do things that I couldn't have done before. I got to play the violin and I got to have friends at school and that kind of thing. Friends at school, violin, and Sara lived happily ever after with her grandmother taken care of emotionally, physically and spiritually. Thank you for tuning in to was I Enicolt. Once again, I'm that is a much better placement for the joke. Good job. Thanks.

Except, sadly, no, dear listeners, that is not what happened at all. That was when boys started getting interested in me, and my grandmother kind of freaked out and she didn't know how to handle it, I guess. So she called my dad and he does what any good father would do in this to handle it, I guess. So she called my dad and he does what any good father would do in this situation. He takes her to London, to the big center there to see the grand sheik. It was a weird trip to begin with because why is my dad taking me to London anyways? That's weird.

I remember my dad asking one of the guys, like, do you think she's ready? And the guy was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, thian, thi I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the th. th. th. th. th, the the the th, the the th, the the the th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. I, th. He, th. He, th. He's, thin, th. th. the. the. to, the. thean, the. the. the. thi, thi, thi, th. He, th guy was like, oh yeah, she's definitely ready. And I didn't know what that meant at the time. And then we were, there was some guy there and he introduced me to him and this guy didn't speak any English, he only spoke French. And then I heard my dad say, well what do you think? And he was just like, no, no, no she doesn't speak my language or like he seemed a little, I don't know, like he wasn't interested or something. And when I look back at that today, I'm just like, wow, that was the first time he tried to marry me off. If that guy had said yes, I would have been married to that guy at 12 years. Thank God, her father's mission didn't work out. So, um, after that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I that, I that, I that, I that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was to to to to to that the, like that to to to that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the So, after that, I was sent to live with my mom for a couple of years because I guess I was a lost cause and he didn't want to have me in his house.

So, my brothers and I were reunited with my mom, then I lived with my mom from 12 until 15. That was a completely different experience. My mom was polar opposite of my dad. When she left the religion, she really left. She was a working nurse at the time, but she had traveled all over the world. She also started drinking a lot, so at that point in her life she was a full-blown alcoholic, and I just had never been exposed to alcoholism at all in my life. Like, I never been exposed to alcohol, period. And then seeing my mom getting drunk was like very weird.

Like, I just didn't even know what that was like. But that said, like, my mom loved me. She loved having my brothers and I, I kind of got maybe a semi-normal life going to junior high school and having friends and that kind of thing. And I was like really rebellious because I was wearing jeans and revealing clothes. It felt like I was being bad but it felt really good too. Yeah, I mean it was a semi-normal life, right? And with that normal life, she got involved in normal teen shenanigans. Nanigans?

What, what are you? 88 years old? Well, she's in a bit of a fix, keep in company with the wrong sorts, Tyler. She's gotten herself into a spot of a bother, tangled up with the off bunch, bless her heart. You're just missing that bowl of hard candy on the coffee table. I got involved with the wrong kind of crowd and started skipping classes and, well actually halfway through my freshman year I had gotten into trouble because I went into a store with my friend and this is when they had cassette tapes, single and put it in her pocket and then I grabbed one and we walked out of the store and of course the, the coffee, the coffee, the coffee, the coffee, the the b, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the coffee, the the the the the the coffee, the coffee, the the the coffee, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, their ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, they had cassette tapes. Single, and put it in her pocket. And then I grabbed one,

and we walked out of the store, and of course the buzzer went off, and we got in trouble, and I had to do community service. It was a whole thing. What cassette was it? It was like TLC. Yes, so worth it.

Yeah, it was falls. Yeah. If you would say like, Blink 182, I'd have been like, ugh, not worth it. No, I was really into hip-hop and R&B and rap. Now let us not begrudge Blink 182. The dudes are still selling out stadiums. Filling them with the enlightened lyrics. We started making out my pants. She took off my the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their my pants. Then I turned on the TV. And then the best thing walked away from me.

Nobody really likes you when you're 23. Gonna be stuck in my head all day, Liz. Thank you. I also know lyrics, Tyler. So that summer, my mom got into some trouble. My mom basically tried to stab her boyfriend. She got really drunk or whatever they got into a fight. And she and she and she and I and I and I and I I I I I I tha. And I tha. And I tha. And I thoing. thoing. thoing. thoing. tho' thi. thi. thi. thi. tho' tho' tho' tho thiak boyfriend. She got really drunk or whatever they got into a fight and she tried to stab him and I was there and so I was like my mom's star witness because she was defending herself in court. I remember going to

the witness stand and I made the jury laugh a couple times and after the hearing the prosecutor came up to me and he was like you know what you would be a really good attorney and I was like, you know what, you would be a really good attorney. And I was like, wow, I never even thought about doing something with my life. And so I was like, yeah, maybe I could be an attorney. And I was like, okay, I guess that means I have to do better in school. So I voluntarily put myself in this remedial thing in our high school. And I was able to get my grades up. And I thought, okay, well, if I want th I th I to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the thr, thr, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, thr. And, thr. And, thr. And, theea. And, toeea. And, toea. And, thea. And, thea. And, thea. And, tho. And, the. And, th, okay, well, if I want to go to law school, then I have to find a way to pay for it. I had got a job at Jack in the Box. I had started working on the plan and kind of started separating myself from my old friends.

And that's all, folks. Another happy ending here on Was I in a cult? Make sure you turn. That was me at 15 until my life just took a very significant turn. He definitely spoke too soon. I had started seeing a young man my age, and he was a basketball player. And then my mom found out that instead of doing my community service, I was off hanging out with my little boyfriend. So she got really upset, and she called my dad and told him that I was seeing a boy and that she

thought it would be a good idea to put me on birth control. And of course my dad, being my dad, was like, oh, well, why don't you send them out? I'll take them off your hands, you know, they're giving you a hard time or whatever. I just didn't know how to like vocalize it or talk about it. And yeah, she unknowingly gave me back to a very abusive cult. So the thought of actually even going back to California, to be there really scared me. I was really scared, actually, but at the same time, I didn't really have any control over the situation because I was really scared actually, but at the same time I didn't really have any

control over the situation because I was still 15. And so she sent me and my brothers on the plane. Basically as soon as we got off the plane, my dad sat me down just him and I and was like, I know that you had a boyfriend and having sex outside of marriage is against the religion. He just explained that I would go to hell and also he would go to hell and my family would be in jeopardy of going to hell too. And because of what I did, then I had to get married and the shake would pick who I was going to get married to.

So I just thought, okay, well, whatever. You know, we ended the conversation I just ran off and went to hang out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out with the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the get married to. So I just thought, okay, well, whatever. You know, we ended the conversation. I just ran off and went to hang out with my other siblings and stuff. And your boyfriend at the time, were you having sex? No, I was really scared of having sex. I did think about sex, but I also thought I was going to go to hell if I had it. Now trapped back in the cult. Our dad became less of a part of our life. He was much more involved in the group,

and so we didn't really see him a lot. For me, my relationship with him was that I just didn't want him to see me because I felt like I would get in trouble. This was 1996, and that summer, they were planning a huge Sufi convention in Los Angeles, and thousands of people were coming in for this, and definitely a lot of dignitaries, including the Big Shake, Sheikh Nazim all the way from Turkey. There were celebrities. MC Hammer was going to be there. I think he just made an appearance, but I do remember him being there.

So the International Islamic Unity Conference was held in August of 1996 where some 7,000 attendees were treated to over 125 speakers from around the globe, including you got it, MC Hammer. Yep. Hammer spoke at the Peace in the Streets session and I found that particular speech and included a bit of it here. Oh yes, it's Hammertime. Salama tha'am and greetings, see everybody here. I'm 34 years old.

I was born in 62. I have a real good memory. Also, thank you for blessing me with a mind to rhyme and two hyped feet. It feels good when you know you're down. A super dope home boy from the thime thime thime thime thome thome th th thome. th th th th th th th th th th th th thi th th the thi. Oh, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, tho, tho, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, it's, it's, oh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the the the the the the the the the th, th, the the th, the th, the the the th, the th, the the th, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thea, theat, thea' thea' tho' thea' thea' thea' thea' thea' thea, thi and too hyped feet. It feels good when you know you're down. A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown. And this is a beat, uh, you can't touch. I told you, homeboy. You can't touch this. I watch us go from unity to destruction, self destruction. 68 helicopters flying everywhere, riots.the games start to rise up. That's why you find an MC Hammer at a Muslim convention. You find me here.

Because I know from my own personal experience that there are Muslims who are out there, out there trying to help, trying to change. Keep preaching, Hamma. Oh, he will, because he's too legit to quit. Good thing no one listens to this stuff we're doing. Some people quote God, some people quote Allah, I want to see the fruit, the love, I want to see the love, the love, to help the brothers who may not be as fortunate as us. We can stop the violence. It's going to be a step at a time, but I seek all of your love and all your prayers, my maximum blessings of everybody. Thank you.

Suffice to say, you can't tough that. Word to your mother. And if you could have your mother faxed me, I'd like to word your father as well. I have the whitest co-host in the history of co-host, you guys. The lights in this room, I'm sure I'm getting a slight sunburned just from the fluorescence. My dad was a part of organizing this event, so he did have a pretty important role in the group at that time. And his status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status status the group at that time. And his status kind of had gone up. Then he was one of the Sheikh's right-hand man when it came to organizing and creating

you know this event. And so the conference, it took place at a big hotel, downtown Los Angeles, so there was a lot going on. And all of us kids were there. We were just running around having a good old time. We drank a lot of soda and could be the thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, and tho, and tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thiiiii, thi, th running around having a good old time. We drank a lot of soda and could be rowdy if we wanted to. And so during that conference, my dad, he grabbed me one morning and he was like, oh, come over here, you need to meet this guy. And I was like, okay, weird, because again, like we weren't normally supposed to talk

to guys. And there was this guy sitting in a coffee shop and he was like go over there and talk to him and the guy was 28 years old he was a full grown man and I remember sitting down across from him he's like oh what do you want to drink and I was like I'll just have orange juice and it was really awkward I could tell that he was like looking at me and he was he was like well I don't want to wait for a long engagement to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to talk to to to to to to talk talk talk talk to to to to to to to to to to talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk to talk to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to talk to talk to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to talk. talk. talk. I talk. I could tell that he was like looking at me and he was like, well, I don't want to wait for a long engagement. And I was like, oh, okay, I don't, okay. I didn't understand what he was talking about, to be quite honest.

Like, I, it was a little bit confusing. Nobody told me what was going on. So then, after that meeting, my dad basically told me that I was going to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get going on. So then after that meeting, my dad basically told me that I was going to get married to that guy. And I was going to be married to him that night. So it everything after that just happened, everything kind of just moved in fast motion after that, like my aunt gave me a dress to wear. It was this green velvet dress. I remember putting makeup on, like I never wore makeup in the group because it was like just totally not okay.

But they put makeup on me and had some jewelry on. And I was going up in this elevator, I'll never forget it because it was these glass elevators and we were just, as kids we were just going up and down the elevators because it was fun and they were glass and you could look out and see, you know, and I remember going up in the elevator with, you know, my family and then I was like, but wait where am I going to sleep tonight? And nobody, nobody said anything. and then I was like, but wait, where am I going to sleep tonight? And nobody, nobody said anything.

Something in the pit of my stomach just dropped, and I was like, that's when it kind of hit me that something really bad was going to happen. And so we went up to the presidential suite where Sheikh Naza Mustang was staying. And again, it was like a big honor for my dad because this is the big leader of the group. And here I am getting married. And so it also felt very conflicting as well because I was like, my dad was, it seemed like he was proud of me. And that wasn't something that I was like really used to and he you know we all were sitting in this room and the

way that the marriages happen and this happens this happened all the time like there would be a thicker and then all of a sudden there would be two people getting married up at the front by the shake. So they push us up to the front, there's probably like a hundred people packed up into this room and they performed a Nika, which is basically a spiritual wedding. It's kind of like when you go to the church and you get married, you say your vows, but you haven't gotten the legal certificate yet. So th th th th th th thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu the thu the thu there there there thu there there there thu there there there there the there there would there would there would be there thi there would be there would be there would be there would be there would be there would be there would be there would be there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there, but there, but thu. thu. thu. thu. thu. the, but the, but the, but theeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, theeeeeeeeeee, theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, there's certificate yet. So that's what this is. It's an Islamic version and I just remember the worst part about it to me is that I said

yes three times because they ask you three times do you accept, do you accept, do you accept, and I remember saying yes all three times. And I think that's the part that... That's... that hurts me the most because I didn't know what I was saying yes, too. And then after that, you know, ceremony, they just... I was basically just handed over to this guy who I didn't know. And I think, I feel like that's where my childhood ended. That's all for today.

We'll be back next week with the rest of Sarah's heroic story. I never felt like, oh gosh, I have to escape from the situation because I didn't realize it was a situation I had to escape from. You know, I don't know if that makes sense, but it was like, I don't think I was going to go anywhere with my big pregnant belly running down the street. I mean, maybe there were places for me to go, but I didn't know about them. Was I and a cult is written, hosted and produced by Tyler Miesam. And Liz Ayacuzzi, sound design and audio edit by Rob Perra. Our studio today was Brett Neese and video engineer Gabby Rap.

Thank you for listening as always. You can find us online at Was I Anacult and on our Patreon page as well. And if you have a story you want to share on our show, feel free to email us at Info at Was I and Occult. See you in a week. Take out your night. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me.