Was I In A Cult? - Sufism - Part 2: “Freedom at 23”

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

This is Part 2 of Sara Tasneem’s heroic story. If you haven’t listened to Part 1, please start there. This episode reveals Sara’s immense strength, her re-brith, her new found freedom. But after years of imprisionment, the real world isn’t always an easy road… especially when you have mouths to feed. Thank you Sara. You’re an inspiration. Want to help end child marriage? You can! Get involved. It will take us all to finally end child marriages for good. Here are some helpful links to get you started: —  Zonta USA: https://zontausa.org/end-child-marriage-in-the-usa/end-child-marriage-action/ —  Unchained At Last: https://www.unchainedatlast.org/ — The AHA Foundation: https://www.theahafoundation.org/get-involved/ — United Nations Sustainable Development Goal 5.3 to end child marriage worldwide by 2030: https://sdgs.un.org/goals/goal5#targets_and_indicators — Tahirih Justice Center Forced Marriage Initiative: https://www.tahirih.org/who-we-serve/forms-of-violence/forced-marriage/ — Link to HB2924 in California (call your legislator and support this bill!!): https://legiscan.com/CA/text/AB2924/2023 — Sara’s activism: https://www.facebook.com/thrivingaftersurviving & https://tasneemsfadvocacy.home.blog/ — Follow us: Instagram: @wasiinacult — Support Us: https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult — Have a story to share on our show? Email us: [e-mail] — “This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/INACULT and get on your way to being your best self.”

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belonged to her and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. That pretty much covers everyone. They were pushing this idea that the end of the world was really imminent. And so the followers in California, they were going to move to Michigan and hunker down for the end of the world. And my ex told me, we're definitely going to move to Michigan because we want to be

part of this in group. And we were going to pitch I in a Cult. I'm Tyler Miesum. And I'm Liz Ayakus. And today we complete Sara Tasneum's story. And I know we say this every week that these stories are incredible and mind-blowing and heroic. And inspiring and jaw-dropping and incredible. We got that one.

Yeah, but that's because they are. And Sarah is no different. Last week was part one of her stories, so guys go listen to that first if you haven't already. And if you're all caught up, as a reminder, we left Sarah as a 15-year-old, forced into marriage with a man almost twice her age. And forced by whom? Her father. He was, quote, married in a room full of other people who were also getting married.

By the chic, at a routine conference held in downtown Los Angeles. Take out your life. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. The way that the marriages happen, like, there would be a thicker and then all of a sudden, there would be two people getting married up at the front by the shake. There's probably like a hundred people packed up into this room and they performed a Nicar, which is basically a spiritual wedding.

So those were forced marriages for sure. And like some folks that I've spoken to, like, they came to thicker one week and then all of a sudden, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their way, their way, their way, their way, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and then all of a sudden they're getting married to somebody. It would just be random like, oh, the shake sees that person and that person, let's put them together, let's do in a cat right now. And then they would do in a cat during Thicker and then the happy couple would go off. And as if that's not bad enough, according to a report by UNICEF in May of 2023, an the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, toeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea toeeeeeeea, toeeea, toeeeea, toea, toea, thi, thi not bad enough, according to a report by UNICEF in May of 2023, an estimated 640 million girls and women alive today were married in childhood. 640 million. The fresh fuck is wrong with this world, Tyler. According to the same report, India alone accounts for one-third of

all child marriages. Behind India, the next ten biggest countries are Bangladesh, China, Indonesia, Nigeria, Brazil, Pakistan, Mexico, Iran, Ethiopia and Egypt. And though child marriages have of late declined, they are not declining nearly fast enough. Now according to the same report, progress would need to be nearly 20 times faster to reach the target of ending child marriage by 2030. And where does the good old US of A fall into all of this? Not where you would help. More on that in a bit.

And sadly, forced child marriage isn't this group's only tradition. Pallegamy was definitely practiced within the group. There were quite a few men who took on second and even third wives. It wasn't something that they were very public about, but it did happen. And the Sheikh also had a second wife, and then other people in the group also had second wives. It just started becoming more and more of a common practice, especially here in California when the group kind of started getting larger numbers.

But then there were issues that came up after somebody took a second wife, because it was so under wraps that the first wife wouldn't know about it until it actually happened, as happened in my dad's case. This was a way after I left, by the way, and he got a second wife unbeknownst to my stepmom, and she didn't find out about it until four years later when he actually had a child with this person. That person then called her and told her about it.

And then it was just a huge fall out with the whole family. So our family really, really really really really really really really really really really really, the the the the the th th th th th really, th th th th thtold her about it and then it was just a huge fallout with the whole family so our family really really went through it and are still going through it. There are so many cults my former Mormon cult included that justify polygamy. Why? There's so much on this topic and of course it's all toward the man. The reason why they would have had this back in the day is to spread the day is to spread.. the to spread to spread the the the to the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. th. th th thi thi the the thee thi thr- thee thee thee thee thee th. So th. So our th. So our th. So our th. th. th. thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the th the the the the th the the the th. th. So the th. So thi thi thi thi thi that that that that the the the the the a the a the a the a the a the a the a throoooooe the that thic and of course it's all toward the man. The reason why they would have had this back in the day is to spread their population they wanted to grow the tribe and in order to do that it would be good to marry many women from different parts of the world and there's actually special rules while you're traveling that you can do temporary marriages,

which are called muta marriages, where you can have them for a very short period of time. So you could basically as a man hook up with a woman abroad when you're traveling and be like, hey, we're gonna do this for a month while I'm here. And then after I leave, we're not married anymore. So that works out well for women. Wow. I'm going to start a religion that's just women and multiple men marriages. It's like, each woman is assigned four different husbands. Are we that hungry though? Like do we need that

much penis? I don't know. Good. That's the problem. We're like, eh, next. You know, I wonder if I could do that. Just have another dude around the house, just to hang out with, help with the dishes, watch some baseball, have a beer together. And have every other night with your wife, and listen, while he pleasures her, perhaps better than you ever have, Tylip. Yeah, that's the sticking point in this whole thing. I like can can can can can that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's to stick. in this whole thing. I like the buddy helping out part. I can't stick to watching baseball. Yeah, it always seems to be about the men and this religion, which is the inherent problem. When you leave out half the population, it's kind of a problem, it's kind of a problem, kind of is. Yeah, I do feel that there's just a lot of victimization of women in our group and it's not something

anybody really talks about, except for me, which I just talked about it. So back to Sarah as a 15-year-old trapped in a cult. Just how exactly was her forced marriage arranged? I found out later that my dad had started asking around the group who would marry his daughter and, you know, had asked the Sheikh who would marry his daughter and, you know, had asked a shake who I should marry and this guy, he was kind of close to the shake and that he gave a lot of money to him and he came from a wealthier family, kind of grew up doing whatever he wanted to do and he was always very interested in spirituality and so I think that's

what attracted him to the group. And he also traveled with the Sheikh to different parts of the world. He went with him to Malaysia, and he paid for the shake to go out to Malaysia and stuff like that. So I guess you could say he paid his dues. So for my dad, this was a good situation because it would get him closer to the shake and his family. So I was handed over to my now Muslim husband, who was 28 years old. I didn't know his actual real name. I knew the Muslim name that he was given.

I was introduced to him as Hassan. Now you may be listening and think to yourself, wow, if that ever happened to me, I would have done such and such. But it's one of those things, you don't know what you would do. you don't know how you would how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how you would feel how how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel how you would feel th you would feel to feel to feel to feel th you would feel how how you would feel to feel to to to to to to to to to to to tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their know how you would feel unless it happened to you. For me, I was feeling like, well, you know, I was doing what I was supposed to do and maybe, just maybe, like I wouldn't go to hell now. And it just kind of felt like I wasn't me anymore.

I don't know. It's hard to describe. It didn't feel like I had any feelings. It felt like I turn off my feelings. I was me, but I wasn't me. I was like a different person. And also, like I didn't know what was going to happen to me after the wedding. But after the wedding, I, you know, I found out soon enough. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Okay, Liz, if you had more time in your day, how would you use it? I don't know, maybe finally get to my to-do list, perhaps. What about you?

Or at least start a to-do list. I don't know, I'd probably start a podcast about conspiracy theories in the music industry. Oh, somehow I knew you were going to say that, Tyler. Well, the best way to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is really to first understand what's important to you so that you can make it a priority. And one way to find out what really matters to you is through therapy. Therapy has helped me personally understand the importance of self-care and, quote, me time. I'm very grateful for that. As they say say say say say say to say to say th say tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thoe, thoes the, thi, thi, thi, to to first, to first, to first, to first, to first, to first, to first, to first, to first, to first to first to first to first to first to first to first to first to first to first to first, to first to first to first to first to first, the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that. As they say, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first.

And as someone who has a tendency to do more for others and forget about my own needs, therapy helps me really to understand that it's not only okay to take care of myself, Tyler, but crucial to all relationships in my life. So if you're thinking about or have ever wanted to give therapy a try, a great place to start is with Better Help. Yeah, Better Help, you guys, is entirely online, so it works around your busy schedule. I mean, learn to make time for what makes you happy with Better Help. Visit Better Help.com slash InaCult to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help, HELP.o.com, slash, Ina cult. Now go start your the the the to the to the to the too.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o. t, t, t, t, t, better. t, better. t, better. t, better. t, better. t, better. t. t, better.o. Better. Better t. Better help. Better. Better. Better. Better. Better. Better. Better. Better. Better.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o. Better.o.o. Better.o. Better.o.o. Better.a. Better. Better. Better. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tL-P.com slash an occult. Now go start your new rock podcast without me Tyler. Yeah, first I'm gonna go talk to my

therapist. Snacks and smoothies and more. Oh my snacks and smoothies and more. Oh my snacks and smoothies and more. Did somebody say snacks? I did and and smoothies and two-minute restaurant quality meals. Where am I having? I I thought I was getting 29 wives but th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to the to the to to the the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the the the the the the the the the too. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. their toe. smoothies. And two-minute restaurant quality meals. Where am I having? I mean, I thought I was getting 29 wives, but yummy food will have to do. No, this isn't the afterlife, Tyler. This is real life. It's Factor. Factor's delicious ready to eat meals make eating better every day, easy, peasy,

you know that's something I can get behind. And you don't have to to to to join to join to to to to to to to to to to the the the the tha tha thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a''''a'a'i.a'i.a'i.a'iii.a'i.a'n'n'n'n'n'a'n'n'n'a'a, thi. And, squeezy. Now that's something I can get behind. And you don't have to join a cult to do it. Factor offers 35 different diet options from keto to veggie to calorie smart and more. And Factor has over 55 nutrition-packed add-ons that make your meals even more delicious. No prep, no mess. So maybe it is a bit like heaven. I mean, who needs a bunch of wives when you can have chef-crafted and dietitian-approved

meals delivered right to your door. So what are you waiting for? Get started with Factor Today and have a feel-good week of meals ready to go. Head to Factor Meals.com. Was I 50? That's code was I 50. code was I 50 at factor meals.com slash was I 50 to get 50% off. Snacks and smoothies and more oh my. So the night of my wedding I was still like I was still wearing children's underwear, you know, like I was still very much a child.

I think he probably didn't feel right about that or something and then took me shopping the next day and bought me like all this lingerie and clothes and stuff to make me look older. The first time I basically had sex in my entire life was in my dad's basement where we were sleeping on like a pullout couch. Yeah, it was just horrible. It was very confusing to me.

And even to this day, like I'm still in therapy, it's still hard to say that it was rape, but it definitely was. Because of all the things that I was told that this was my fault. This was, you know, how I was supposed to live my life. And it's okay for my body to suffer. It's okay for, you know, these bad things to happen to me because that just meant I was, I was gonna go to heaven later. After my ex-abuser raped me, he had me call my mom and tell her that I wanted to stay

with my dad and I didn't want to go back to her house. And after only one week as a minor, being forced into a marriage with a total stranger, he was from the Caribbean, so we went back to where he was from, and we stayed with his parents, and they don't speak English, so I couldn't really like communicate for the first six months. And I was very isolated, I didn't really know anybody there.

I mean, I was basically kidnapped because my mom didn't know where I was. She thought I had stayed with my dad in California. Then I just remember throwing up one morning and my mother-in-law was like, oh do you think you might be pregnant? And I was like, I didn't even know that could happen. But then, yep, sure enough, we went to a doctor and they said I was pregnant. So I was 16 and I was pregnant and I was pregnant and then we went back to the United to the United. the United. the United. the United. the United. the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the United the th. th. th. th. th. th. And th. And th. And th. And thi that th. And then I th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just th. And then I just just just th. And then I just th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I was th. I was thrown, I was that, I was that, I was thrown, I was just thrown I was just thrown I was just thro thro. And then I was thrown thto a doctor and they said I was pregnant. So I was 16 and I was pregnant and then we went back to the United States and we were staying in the Sheikh's house basically working for his family.

What was your relationship like with him? And by him, Liz is referring to Sarah's, quote, husband, aka her abuser. I mean I feel like I was just centered a lot around sex like he wanted sex all the time and I don't know I didn't really feel like emotionally attached to him I felt sorry for him sometimes. Yeah I know that sounds weird but I don't know how I felt about him. I felt that I was just trying to survive what was going on and I was just being a wife and that's what I was supposed to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to to to to do to to to to to to th th th tho thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to do the the the the the the the to the the to the the tox. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the was just trying to survive what was going on, and I was just being a wife, and that's what I was supposed to do, and like, I never felt like, oh gosh, I have to escape from the situation because I didn't realize it was a situation I had to escape from.

You know, I don't know if that makes sense, but it was like, I don't think I was going to go anywhere with my big pregnant belly running down the street. I mean, maybe there were places for me to go, but I didn't know about them. I didn't even know like how to call my mom, which seems so crazy because I didn't grow up in a cave, you know. But there was just so much control over my life. I would just go along with whatever he told me. He would yellat all the the the the the they. they. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that, that, that, that, that, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi. that, tho, to to to told, told, told, told, told, told, told, told, told. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thin, thin, thin. And, that, th th th th th too. And, too. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, th th th th th th th told me. He would yell at me all the time. I mean, he was just a very angry person. He was emotionally abusive, verbally abusive, financially abusive. A lot of times people think of domestic violence, is it just being purely violence?

Not always the case. It's violence is really about control and power in a relationship. He had all the power, and I had very little. One day when I was like around six months pregnant, we went up to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the, and we th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And thi. And thi, and we thi, and we tho thoe ab thoom and thoe ab thoe, and thi, and thoom hea, verbally, verbally, verbally, verbally, verbally, verbally, verbally ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab ab about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theau........ the the... the. the the the the the the the the the the the power, and I had very little. One day when I was like around six months pregnant, we went up to Reno, and we went to this drive-in wedding chapel. And that's where I was legally married to my rapist, with proof of my rape right in front of me, on my big pregnant ass belly.

And nobody asked me if that's something that I wanted to do. At that time in Reno, Reno, thia, thia, thino, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, to to to to took, took, tooke, took, too, too, to to to to to toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, too, too, tooke, tooke, tooke, tooke, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, too, too, thr.e, too, too, too.e, too, too, too, tooe, tooe, too, too, too something that I wanted to do. At that time in Reno, Nevada, all it took was a permission slip from one parent. Fucking Nevada! Again, we'll have more on our fine country's laws soon. My mom still didn't know. I was told that I couldn't call my mom, and that was really hard. Living with my mom, even though it was hard, even though she had a drinking problem, she was like one of the only adults in my life that really left me unconditionally. So my experience living in the Shake's house

was extremely horrible as well, because my ex-husband didn't really like to work a lot. He was generally a loser. So we were in the basement. In the basement is where a lot of the the the the the the the the the the th, a lot th, a lot th, a lot th, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a th, a th, a th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thri, thri, thri, thri, thri, thri, thri.ei.ei.ea, thr.ea, thr... And, th basement. In the basement is where a lot of the people who are like students, they live there and they have these roll-up mattresses and that's where they sleep and it's called the Durga. And we had a small room off of the bathroom that was basically supposed to be a closet, but that was our actual room. And then, you know, I would wake up in the morning,

go help with breakfast. I would try to like talk to the other people in the house, but then I was told that I shouldn't be coming upstairs and talking to the people because that wasn't really my place to do. I felt very isolated. It just didn't feel like I had a place really. And while living in this hellhole, she had her baby. After I had my daughter, my ex found us a place to live that was also, it was like a group home. So there were other followers that were living there in this group. It was just like he would go to work, and I was just completely dependent on him. I just didn't have any control in the situation. I mean, I was pretty much a kid still. I was taken out of school and now I had a child and I didn't have a bank account. I didn't know how to drive. I could barely take

public transportation and I would be at home trying to figure out how to do domestic things. My ex would work for a little while and then all of the teurowns. to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe, thiii. thi. toe, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, toe, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the thi, the the the, I the the the the their, I, I, I, I, I, I, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr. thr. thr. toe, toe, toe, toe, toean, toean, toean, toean, toean, toeean, toean, the toeee, the the the the the sudden he would just stop working. So then we would bounce around to a lot of different places because he couldn't hold down a job for very long. We ended up moving to a small apartment in Fremont. I had my daughter and she was like a little over a year I think, and we would go to the park and I would just be pushing her on the stroller and seeing other kids my age walking to school and I was thinning myself, wow, I want to go back to school. And then I asked my ex could I go back to school?

And he said, well you have to ask the shake. And then the shake was like, well you have to ask my wife. So then I went to ask his wife and she mother." And I was like, you know what, I don't really want to listen to you and also I just want to go back to school. So I'm going to do that. That was the first time where I actually stood up for myself. I found an adult school and then my sister-in-law at the time had a daycare so she would watch my daughter and then I would go to school and I got my GD. And then after that, I decided that I wanted to do computer programming. And I was going to this school in San Francisco called Computer Learning Center that was funded by Microsoft.

And so I would hop on the BART and it would take about two hours to get to San Francisco using public transportation. And then I would go to school and being exposed to people outside of the group like, like, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, to, to, the, the, and I, the, and I, the, the, and, I, and, I, I, and, I, and, I, and, the, and, I, and, the, and, and I would, and I would, their, and I would, and I would, their, their, and I would, and I would, and I would, and I would, and I would, and I would, and I would, and, the, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, their, their, their, their, their, toe.e.a, told, toe.a, toe.a, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their go to school and being exposed to people outside of the group, like my schoolmates, and I would tell them how old I was and that I was married and their jaws would just like drop open. People kind of questioned me, made me realize that there was something really wrong here, and I didn't exactly know what it was but I felt like there was something wrong and I stuck with it until I found out I was pregnant for a second time. What normally is good news and a marriage was just horrible news for me and that's not because I don't love my children it's because I was in a

horrible situation. This was the pre-Y2K time of the group, and they were really pushing this idea that the end of the world was really imminent, and it was going to happen at Y2K. And so there was a big move from the followers in California. They were going to move to Michigan, and they were going to live on a farm and hunker down for the end of the world. If you stayed in California, you were definitely going to die, because California was going to break off and sink to the bottom of the ocean. What is it about these cults in California dropping into the ocean?

It is true. This is like our fourth cult. It is a very favorite prophecy and probably a desire for much of our current country. But according to the United States geological survey, California is not going to fall into the ocean because the state is firmly planted on the top of bedrock. However, it is in a location where it spans two tectonic plates, the Pacific plate and the North American plate. And these two plates, Liz, they're slowly sliding past one another at approximately 46 inches per year. Incidentally the rate your fingernails grow. And because of this movement one day in the distant future Los Angeles and San Francisco will be adjacent to

each other. Yes! I finally won't have to drive so far to get to Napa. And for Sara's group who believed that the end of the world was soon. Naturally. What do you do when the end of the world is right around the corner? You make a Costco run. The followers, they were encouraged to charge up their credit cards, to buy food and food and to to buy gold. to was gold. And, you know, when the end of the world came, all of the people following the shake,

they would be the ones that were like controlling the world and stuff. So they were going to be this army of people. They were going to fight for the Mahdi. The Mahdi was going to rise up and have an army. This is all really out there. Not on this show, maybe on other shows, but we have heard it all. There was a huge move to Michigan. My dad moved, all the core group.

They all picked up, packed up their stuff, moved out to Michigan. He had this rickety old barn that was turned into like a weird commune type setting where there were bunk beds and rooms and stuff. And my ex told me, hey, let's, we're definitely going to move to Michigan because, you know, we want to be part of this in group. And we were going to pitch a tent and live on the farm. I was like, absolutely not. I'm not doing this. I'm not going to do it. Not going to live in a tent. I'm not going to live in a tent.

I'm not going to do the whole farm thing. I'm okay. So she convinced her abuser to not follow the group to Michigan. I was studying computer programming and I knew that the world was't going to happen. But then after they moved to Michigan, that was probably the beginning of me really starting to question things and really starting to realize that, wow, this is a crazy apocalyptic cult. And I'm right in the middle of it, and it's weird. And I have to get out of here. But as anyone who's been a listener of this show long enough understands,

once you realize you're in a cult or in something that is not quite what you thought it was, it's not usually as easy as just getting up and hit in the road, Jack. When the group left, I didn't feel as much pressure to just continuously follow all the rules, and there was just this lingering feeling that the group still had power over me for just a really long time. There was a feeling like the shake could see you even though he wasn't there and so I would have really debilitating nightmares and I would wake up like in cold sweats feeling like you know something horrible was going to happen to me because because that was basically what we were told you know that the unbelievers the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th group th. thi thi thi thi thi the group the group thi. thi. thi. thi. the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the group the the group the group the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. theeeeea. thea. thea' group thea' group theea the group the something horrible was going to happen to me because that was basically what we were told, you know, that the unbelievers, bad things, you know, were going to happen to them.

After I had my son, we were living in the East Bay, and then my ex again lost his job. He had bought a boat through one of his friends, and we actually went and lived on this boat. My ex went out to Colorado to work on my grandparents' property. Can we just pause to take a minute to recognize how fucking cool this guy sounds? So cool. I like him. I want to be him when I grew up. And so he left me alone there and I was living on this boat, basically like in a homeless situation with both my kids.

And then I started realizing that, like, well, I could probably manage to leave, you know, if I could support myself. I wasn't able to finish my programming school because I got pregnant, but then I decided, okay, I want to get financially stable so that I could leave him. And so that's kind of what made me reach out to my mom.

When we first reconnected, I was very much under the control of the group. And I really felt like she saw that, I think, and realized that if she pushed, if she said that my lifestyle was wrong, that I would just not really confide in her. After she left my dad, she left the religion. She became an atheist, you know, she would argue with people about why there is no God. If people would come knocking on our door trying to sell us like Mormonism or something like that. Like little Tyler, sweet little elder Mism.

She would invite them to dinner and try to like convert them to atheism and she would ask me things that I couldn't answer like why are you asking me that? You know but at the same time then I would think about it and I'm like, of course she's right. I have been so used to other people thinking for me for a long time and that was comfortable I guess she kind of empowered me to think for myself in a way as I started questioning things and realizing how have I been living like this, right? But her winner of a quote husband. He would come out, he was very controlling, he was very jealous.

She would help me realize certain things, like, well, why is he asking you that? Or why does he need to know where you are at all times? She was supportive of me and who I was. And she started encouraging me to go back to school to school to school to school to school to school to school to school? and to school to school to school to school to school to school to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the to thuu tho? quoe. quo' quo' quo' quo' quo' quo'e. quo'e. quo'e. quo'e. the the the. the the are at all times? She was supportive of me and who I was. And she started encouraging me to go back to school and that, you know, if I needed anything to call her, so I went to culinary school and I got a job after I graduated. And on my first paycheck, we were living in somebody's house and I was like, I'm done. I'm leaving. I want toto separate I want my own place and that was the beginning of our separation I got married to him when I was 15 and I left him when I was 23

three hey Liz Liz Liz Liz what stop interrupting me I have one more object to find it only thirty seconds to find it oh I know you're doing. You're spending time with your new co-host that has all but replaced me. Yes, I'm playing Seeker's Notes and it's far more important than anything you have to say at the moment. Hmm. It's a hidden object game, correct? Oh, uh, Seeker's notes is a cut above traditional hidden object games, Tyler. It's a premium. thine. thine. thine. thi. to. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to thi. to thi. thi. thi. thi. to thi. thi. thi. to to to thi. to to thi. thi. to to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. te. te. the the thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. to to toe. thea. Se. It's a premium hobby for those who enjoy the chase of the hunt and the art of discovery. Yeah which is something everybody knows about you. I do love a good hunt chase. And why I love Seekers Notes is it transports you to this beautiful post-Victorian world in the mysterious city of Darkwood. An abandoned yet enchanted city, you are the chosen one to decipher its ancient curse. Seekers abandoned yet enchanted city, you are the chosen one to decipher its ancient curse.

Seekers Notes has enchanted millions of fans of the hidden object genre. And beyond hidden objects, the game engages players with brain teasing puzzles. Something... Someone I know could use, possibly me. But what I love about it, it's, I mean, you're not just playing a game, it's an entire mood and vibe. Yes, I agree. The design is next level. You guys, each location is a complete work of art. And I love that it's totally free with no annoying ads. And no annoying co-hosts. It's very calming too, you know, those sound effects.

The sound effects have this very satisfying ASMR quality to them. Well, all right, now I don't feel so bad. I mean, your replacement co-host does have a ton more cool features than me. Ah, yes, finally, there's the compass. It was hiding behind the darn teapot. As compasses do. If you guys are looking for a great game and a great non-culti community, we highly recommend Seekers notes. Download now and see exactly why Liz tends to ignore me. This is the excuse Is, Aureo Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced middle of the night

landing. This is my friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks, and he's telling me about how he discovered a real life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed blue velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out of the way places to bring in his cocaine. My name is Joshua Davis and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across but nothing was quite as strange as

what we found in Varnamtown, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother, everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist? Welcome to Varnomtown is available wherever you listen to podcasts. When I left I was a single mom, I was working as a chef, so yeah, did I go out and have fun? Hell yeah, I did. It was the first time I had experienced freedom. I actually had a life. I was drinking. I was doing all the things I wasn't supposed to be doing, like having sex with people, and oh God, you know, dating men and stuff. What happens when you leave a cult is that recovery is a really long process.

And it starts with just going a little crazy, and then you're like, wait, why am I going crazy? Maybe there's some problems here. And realizing that I just had a lot to work through, there was like a rage phase. There was like a recovery phase where I was like, what's going on? Why am I so angry all the time? So I overcorrected for a little while and then I decided like, oh gosh, if I keep doing this, I'm gonna end up becoming an alcoholic

because I know that's in my genetics. So I really have to kind of pay attention to this and I want to be there for my children. And when I was divorcing my ex, he basically came out to California to try to work things out between us and my ex basically accused me of cheating on him and that I was partying all the time and then after that my ex actually went to Michigan and told the whole community about what a whore I was and, you know, they completely shunned me and that was the narrative that my dad was believing about me. And at that point I was like, I don't care. I don't want to be a part

of this anymore. If I'm going to be labeled a devil and a whore and everything, fine, call me a hoar. I don't care. And then it took me three years to get a legal divorce because he fought me every step of the way. He left California, went back to his country. He tried to keep the kids. I fought him and got my kids back to the U.S. Then he came to the United States and physically assaulted me, try to throw me from a moving vehicle at one point.

And then after that, I just decided I'm never going to see this guy alone again. And I never saw him alone again after that. It took me three years to get a divorce, but I didn't care. I gave him everything. I didn't have a lawyer. I had no resources. I had no end to guide me thrown, to to thi, to their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, thi, toe, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, Ie, I, I.e, I.e, I.e, I.e, I.e, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, the the thi, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, thr, toeauii.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.eto guide me through this process. I didn't fight for anything because I just wanted to be free. You know, then I was left with the responsibility of raising my children. I worked really long hours trying to support my children and I and on a chef salary which is not that much. I couldn't keep up. I mean at first I tried to reach out to my ex for money and him and his brother basically told me th, and I th, and I th, and I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I the, I the, the, thro, throoooooooooooooooan, theeeeeean, throoooooooooooooooooe, that, thtried to reach out to my ex for money, and him and his brother basically told me that I shouldn't have left him to begin with, and this is what I get.

And I actually tried to reach out to my dad because I was like, you know, this guy got me into this mess to begin with. Maybe he can offer some support or help. Of course, her wildly understanding, the Michigan farm told her no. And I think they were like probably happy that this was happening. When I decided I had to go back to school to find a job that I could take care of my kids and not be gone all the time. Then my mom called me and she said, go back to school, I'll take the kids, you do what you need to do so that you can get on your feet and I will help you. I will be your mother, like let me be your mom. And that's what happened. I went back to school.

It took me two years. I did a paralegal program at Sonoma State. I started working for the county of Marin for a division of health and human services. And we worked to house homeless people in the community. And it allowed me to have stability for the first to to. Can we just take a minute and just acknowledge you? Like that's fucking incredible. Going through all of that and then having two children that you love more than anything that you never asked for and now having to

support them and you just do it. You just go and you get a job and you do it. I mean... Yeah, It was really hard, but I'm thankful for that because my kids are the one thing that kept me grounded throughout my adulthood and just like I am motivated to just have them, have a better life than I had. My voice was taken from me as a child and I don't want any other child's voice to be taken from them. That's why I'm sharing my story. That's why it's important for people to understand. Being born in a cult is definitely awful, but then being married off as a child is even worse because it's almost like you get thrown from one controlling situation to another. For some kids there's just no escape. I've met with so many

survivors and so many people who haven't come from cults, who have just been forced into a marriage as a child because there was sexual abuse happening to them, or they're in a situation where there's a stepparent involved, and the stepparent doesn't want them around. There's so many different reasons why it happens, but the thing that ties everything together is thi.. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, the thin, the toge, thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea, the thing that ties everything together is that generally that child is being abused in some form, whether it's physically, sexually, emotionally and their power has been taken from them, and they don't have a say in their lives. One of the ways that I fight to take my power back is by advocating to end child marriage. I work with different organizations who are trying to end child marriage. In addition to her full-time job, Sarah is a badass activist on the front lines doing the grunt work that's required to make change.

And remember when we said we'd get back to America's part and all of this? Well... So I show up for legislative hearings and convince legislators that these laws are horrible and need to be changed because most people don't realize that child marriage is actually legal in 42 states. The age for marriage is generally set at 18, but there's exceptions written into the law that allow minors to get married. So, in California, for example, you can get married at any age with judicial review and parental consent. What that can look like realistically is a rubber stamp on a form.

It's not something that people decided, hey, we're going to allow children to get married. All of these laws are based in common law. So back in the day, women were treated like property. So it was a way for a child to leave their household and go to a husband's home. And those laws haven't really been changed that much. And then there was a push in the 90s for abstinence-only education. It was basically a big welfare package, and then they really pushed that hard in high schools and things like that and made it easier for minors to marry. They thought that marriage was a solution to teen pregnancy, which of course

it wasn't. It completely backfired and actually teen pregnancies rose because of that. But at the heart of it, it's basically patriarchy telling us we're at an age where we can have have children, then we should also have the ability to be married. But the result of that is that min min min min min min min, th, th. It is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thin, to to thin, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the theeeee the result of that is that minors, mostly girls, are being married to adult men. They have a study, or basically they looked at a period of 2000 to 2018 and found that there were over 300,000 minors married. 86% of those marriages were girls married to adult men, and in many cases violated the consent laws of those

states. There is no instance where a child who marries is going to be in a good situation. It also creates a legal trap. So for me as a minor if I had tried to leave at the age of 16, I wouldn't have been able to hire an attorney because I couldn't enter into a contract. I wouldn't have been able to get my own place to live in or lease because I couldn't enter into a contract. I would have even been turned away from domestic violent shelters because I was under age. You're basically allowing minors to get married,

but you're not allowing them to leave in a safe way. The simple fact is that, you know, minors who married are also more exposed to abuse. They're actually three times more exposed to abuse than their adult counterparts. Whether it's forced domestic servitude, forced trafficking, of course sexual assault, rape, and continuous rape of the minor throughout the marriage. But then you're also taken out of school, so your education is limited. So when you leave or when you're able to leave, then you're now starting from zero, from nothing, which is exactly how I started at 23 years old with nothing and two children to support. And so you're really setting these people

up for failure. Those are the laws that I'm fighting to change. And here's a clip of Sarah doing just that, giving testimony to the Judiciary Committee at a virtual hearing in Massachusetts in 2021. My name is Saratas Neam, and I am a survivor of forced child marriage. I'm providing my testimony today in strong support of H. 1709 and S. 937. Similar to many victims of forced child marriage, my father was the one who forced me to marry. And how are things looking today? Since 2017, eight states have ended child marriage completely. Woohoo. And that is thanks to the work of many organizations, legislators, survivors like myself,

who share their stories publicly and who try to get these laws changed. You know, there's still 42 states to go, so we still have a lot of work ahead. And how can our ass-kicking listeners help? If you live in one of the 42 states that allow child marriage, go talk to your legislator. Everybody can participate in policy. I mean, send them email, give them a phone call,

wriding, like, the best thing that you can do. It's in writing and it's your position on the issue. Anybody can get involved in the legislative process. You can go to Tahoehare Justice Center, go to unchained at last.org, go to the Resiliency Foundation.org. You can go to my site, thriving after surviving. We'll be sure to provide those links in the Resiliency Foundation.org, you can go to my site, thriving after surviving. We'll be sure to provide those links in the show notes. And so, the big question remains, was she in a cult? Oh my gosh, I was definitely a thousand percent in a cult.

It's still recruiting, although I think they've kind of like tried to rebrand a little bit. There's still have international centers. There's still a very big online following. So yeah, it's gotten a little bit fractured, but it's still there. And where is she on her healing journey today? You know, I lost my mom in 2014, and that was really what started me going back to therapy. Now I'm just still in my healing. I'm still talking to my therapist every week and figuring out why my brain works the way it does and trying to unprogram all of those things I was taught as a young child.

And today, I feel like I've finally kind of gotten my life back, but of course that's come with a tremendous price, basically my entire young adulthood and childhood. So my dad moved out to Michigan, stayed with the group. I really didn't have a lot of contact with him. We didn't really have that much of a relationship anyways. Like I might hear from him once a year, twice a year, he would say like, happy birthday to me or something like that.

The last time I saw him was his mom passed away last year, my grandmother, and I went to the funeral and he was there, and he was just like, I, so sorry for everything that I did when you were a child. Will you please, please forgive me? And it's just like, what am I supposed to do with that, you know? I thought about it and I just ask him to leave me alone because I need my space. And I haven't talked to him for like a year and it feels great. And I don't think I want to talk to him him. Asking somebody for forgiveness is so weird after you hurt them so much. Is that even a thing?

I don't know. I'm still asking myself that question. And as our listeners are probably dying to know, how was her love life post-cult? I had been dating for a year and it was horrible. I met so many bad guys that I was just like I'm giving up on men I'm just not gonna do this ever again. I swore I was never gonna get married ever again because it was just such a horrible experience that I just thought all marriage was gonna be like that. But then one day at a work function she met Mike. He's a public defender. He was just a really nice guy despite all of thiiiiiiiii thi thi thi th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that I that I that I that I that I that I that I was just that I'm that I'm that I'm that I was just liked. I was just liked. I was just liked. I'm that I'm that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I I I that I I I that I that I I I that I that that that that that that that th. th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm just just just just thi. I'm just thee. theeeee. theeeeee. th. I was just just just theeeeeeeee. I was just a really nice guy despite all of my family stuff. Anything that I threw at him he was just still there and he just

never left. We got married like after seven years so we are very happy. He has a child like 17 years old now. You know my kids are in their 20s. They got to luckily see a very good relationship with Mike and I. And I didn't raise them with any type of religion. It was just like, now they're fully formed adults. I think they can figure it out for themselves. And they're happy. They don't have anything to do with this group, except for me, like talking about it a lot. It's hard for them to hear about their dad though because they still kind of have a relationship with him even though it's

long distance. He's still kind of in the cult, yeah. He had to leave the country though, so ha ha. Again, winner-winner chicken dinner. And today, Saur is completely free from the cult. She's happy, advocating, thrown, thi. I thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi, like thi. thi, like thi. thi, like thi, like thi, like their, like the their, like their, like their, like, like, like, like their, like their, like their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like their, like their, like their, like, like their, like their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, tooi. too. tooo. too. too. too. too. too. too. too, too, to, to, their, their their their their their their their, their their,. I personally don't prescribe to any religion. For myself now, today, I constantly question things. You put something in front of me and I'm going to ask questions about it because that's really how we find our own power and our own ability to make decisions. I believe in morality. I think that there are laws of the universe and I think what you reflect out there will come back in. And I just hope that I'm able to have some kind of positive effect on other people around me.

That's what I believe. Well, she had a wonderfully positive effect on me during our time together, and I have no doubt she continues that with whomever she encounters. Now, since we've recorded this interview, you guys, there have been some positive updates in the United States in terms of child marriage laws. And so I briefly caught up with Sarah this week so she could tell us all about them, as well as hear more of Sarah on the front lines, rock and testimony as they say. As they say, who's they and do they really say that?? th.. So th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. So th. So th. So th. So th. th. the the. tho tho thi thi thi. the. tho. tho. tho. tho. thi thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. to to to to the. to to to to the. the. the. to the. the. the. the. the., rock and testimony as they say. As they say, who's they, and do they really say that? Here's our brief combo. So I'm with Sarah again, because I'm lucky. We interviewed a few months ago, so fortunately there have been some positive updates.

So since we talked Michigan ended marriage under the age of 18, no exceptions, minors are no longer going to be able to be forced into marriages, which is great news. Since 2024 started, we have eight pending bills. We have strong bills pending in Washington State, which if you live in Washington State, 80% of you actually wanted to pass a law against child barrage. So that's huge. Also, states that have really strong bills, New Hampshire, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, and last but very not least, California.

So where are we at? Where is California? We have a lot of California listeners. So California just introduced a new bill by Assembly Member Cotty Petri Norris. It's House Bill 2924 and it would if it passes and child marriage with no exception. So if you live in California please call your legislator, your senator, your assembly person, call them and bug them, tell them to pass HB 2924. California does not count its minor marriages and it's an underreported issue. In Washington state I testified twice. I traveled on an airplane and testified at the Capitol alongside another amazing survivor advocate who was forced to marry at 12 years old.

The more that the public gets involved in this issue, the more that people know about it. So even if you just talk about it with your neighbor or with the co-worker, you're doing something. We still have 40 states to go. Hopefully Washington will be the 11th, but after that we would still have quite a few states to pass legislation in. So it really is a marathon. Hopefully California will be a huge win. Washington will be a huge win. If you guys have teenagers, have your kids call. Oh yeah, young people get involved in this advocacy all the time and legislators really respond well to teenagers.

With all the uncertainty in our world and all the chaos, this is something you can do for good. We live in a democracy. We can make this change happen. We can actually end child marriage. It's a possibility. Right. Did you hear that guys? You make a difference. The arguments for child marriage are disturbing. It just shouldn't be happening in this day and age. Child marriage robs people of their freedom. I should have freedom just like any other person does. I really appreciate you bringing this out to the audience and educating people.

You're a part of it, too. Thank you so much again for sharing, for being brave and speaking out, for the important work you are doing in the world to change laws that I personally was shocked to know existed. You are powerful, Sarah, and everyone listening can feel that. Yes, Sarah, you have completely and successfully humbled us. It's actually going to be hard to complain about something as trivial as getting a parking ticket ever again. Imagine being her friend and being like, it's so annoying my husband will not pick up his socks. going to be hard to complain about something as trivial as getting a parking ticket ever again. Imagine being her friend and being like, it's so annoying, my husband will not pick up his

socks no matter what I tell him. And she'd be like, oh yeah, well, what about when your husband leaves you and your two kids on a boat while he goes and gets fired from yet another job? And what if that husband wasn't your were forced to marry a 28 year old by no one other than your own dad and then what if you were emotionally abused by this asshole, raped into having two kids with him, somehow found your way back to school when you weren't allowed to be in school in the first place, eventually crawled your way out of that controlling hell, got a job, supported your kids and are now an activist. You be like, Sarah, you are th. That th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. thi. thi. thi. theeeea. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. husband's socks. Yeah, you're right.

Basically, Sarah, you are a true inspiration. And thank you again for all you do and who you are. We are honored to have you on our show. And speaking of the show, we will be back next week with a great story of a New Zealand-based cult. There's times when the leaders will say, hey, we think your daughter's ready for marriage because they want to get it married off. You know, and then from that point, once they've told you who you're going to marry, I'll arrange for you to get in a room with the girl to propose to her. There was no dating process at all.

And here's the kicker, you're going to be married within six to eight weeks. And you're going to be stuck with a person for the rest of your life. Links to find Sarah and everything mentioned in this episode will be available in our show notes. We'll see you next week. Wasaynakult is written written, produced, and hosted by me, the not as badass as Sarah, Liz Ayakusy. And me, the not even as badass as Liz, Tyler Miesom. Sound design and audio edit by the also not as badass as Sarah, Rob Parra. And sound engineering by the pretty badass Brattie.

Yeah, they're all pretty badass. Spare my life, crucify. And here is a clip of Sara doing just that, giving testimony to the judiciary committee of a virtual hearing in Massachusetts. You take it, Liz. And here is a clip of Sara doing just that. Giving testimony to the judic... No, I can do it. Right?

Giving testimony to the judicious. That is hard. Yeah, everyone thinks they can hit a fastball until they're in the plate, watching it go by them.