Was I In A Cult? - Swartzentruber Amish — PT2: "Promoted to Wearer of Jeans"

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

CONTENT WARNING: This episode discusses sexual assault. Not in graphic detail, but please listen accordingly. For 19 years, Lizzie Ens lived in one of the most conservative Amish sects in America: the Swartzentruber Amish. Last week you learned about her upbringing and all facets of living a life off the grid with no electricity, no indoor plumbing, and very little autonomy over her own life. In Part 2, the horse-and-buggy postcard version of Amish life disappears fast. Lizzie takes us inside the bizarre dating ritual called "bundling," and into the darker corners of the community — sexual assault, shunning, suppression, and the impossible weight of knowing that leaving means leaving everything behind. Including her twin sister. Eventually, she realizes something terrifying: if she doesn't escape now… she may never escape at all.   What follows is one of the wildest escape stories we've ever covered. __________________________________ RESOURCES: RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) Bailing Out Benji __________________________________ FIND LIZZIE: Instagram: @lizzieens_wellness / TikTok: @lizzieh_wellness Book: Amish Renegade: The Anthropology of an Amish Girl Turned Global CEO Website: undietyou.com _____________________________________ FOLLOW US  → For more culty content — follow us on Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacult SUPPORT THE SHOW Join our Patreon! Get ad-free episodes, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes conversations. (And our forever gratitude) HAVE A CULTY STORY? Email us → [e-mail]

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of Libson or its affiliates. Guest accounts are personal recollections shared from their own perspectives. References to specific individuals, organizations, or groups are presented as commentary, opinion, and personal experience and should not be interpreted as definitive statement of fact. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. Hey listeners, today's episode discusses sexual assault. The discussion is not graphic, but please listen accordingly.

Welcome back to Was I in a cult? Question mark at the end of it. I'm Tyler Meesam, also known as Tyler Meesam. And I'm Lizzie, also known as Liz Ikeuzzi. And today is episode Dos, that's two in Spanish, of Lizzie End's amazing story. What is it in Pennsylvania Dutch? There's about a handful of people that know that, and they're not listening to our show, I assure you. Although Lizzie probably does.

Lizzie is a former Amish turned wellness powerhouse. She's an author and a podcaster herself. So fasten up your dresses, hitch your horses to the buggy, and power down your circuits because we're going to Amish country. But please don't power down the device you're listening to this episode on. No, don't go full Amish. And definitely don't leave the cult of Apple. Yeah, God forbid. So like many things in life, the Amish live on a spectrum.

And Lizzie grew up in basically the most conservative sect. She lived on a farm. She had zero electricity. She had no indoor plumbing whatsoever, no rubber tires. Her buggies were only allowed one oil lamp. She made her own clothes. Her education stopped at eighth grade. And she had very little knowledge of the outside world.

The old order and the New Order Amish, which aren't as extreme as Lizzie's, don't all live on farms anymore, though, due to the insane land prices. So lately, they've been turning to different forms of work like construction, factory work, woodworking. And dog breeding. Say what? Yes, this is true. In certain Amish communities, dog breeding has become a big commercial business, according to bailing out Benji. God. Great name.

Poor Benji. Whatever it is. It's a great name. It's a nonprofit. watchdog group that focuses on puppy mills. Over 98% of Ohio's puppy mills are run by Amish breeders. I mean, I imagine God really does love Bernadoodles. Someone has to do it. The medium size. Not the large. Not the large. No. No. We joke, but to them, it's all about economics. And we're not just talking about a few extra pens on a family farm. The claim is that many of these operations are massive

high-volume factories where barns that were once built for animals like hogs are now converted to hold, I don't know, hundreds of dogs. In some cases, the dogs are kept in the dark, stacked in wire cages with little access to grass or direct sunlight. And how do they justify it? Well, it comes down to, and they do, always someone can justify it,

they're always setting loopholes, always setting rules and then finding a loophole, aren't they? It comes down to a strict uncompromising dogma. I don't want to make a joke about the word dogma, so I'm going to skip over and let you guys fill it in. I was hoping you'd catch that. Some conservative Amish hold a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, specifically the part where God gives man dominion over the fish of the sea,

the foul of the air, and every living thing that moves upon this earth. So animals are treated as tools for survival and profit. view, dogs are often seen more like livestock than they are like pets. Did you know that part of the Bible? Of course. Before you looked it up? You did? Of course.

I read the Bible a few times, Liz, don't you know? How did the Mormons interpret that part of the Bible? The Mormons are a little odd about it because they love their meat and they love their animals and they do have dominion over them without question. The odd thing is that they also have the word of wisdom which says you can't have coffee or alcohol or tobacco. But it also says eat meat sparingly, but I scant know a Mormon who doesn't love a good pot roast and burgers. Especially if it's in a casserole.

Yeah, exactly. With the jello hidden in there somewhere. And a big-ass 24-ounce diet Coke. Nothing unhealthy about that. But don't drink coffee. Don't drink coffee. Let's get back to the Amish. Let's get back to the Amish.

I got some Mormon stuff coming later. So back to the Amish. Now the fascination with the Amish has been around for a lot of. long time. It's been in movies, some really good ones like Witness, the Harrison Ford film, a really good movie. Documentaries, there was a really great documentary called Devil's Playground, if anyone's seen it. And then there's also way, way, way too many TLC shows in general and not just about the Amish, but there are too many TLC shows about the Amish. And that is a wormhole, sadly, we do not have time for today. But you guys, please don't watch suddenly Amish thinking

it's real. That's all I'm going to say. So Lizzie, she is a twin and she's one of 19 kids, if you've forgotten that. Yes, her mother had 19 children and three sets of twins. Can you imagine being pregnant once with twins, let alone three times? You know, Liz, I know a lot about what pregnancy is and how it feels and the pain you go through and the discomfort and the heat. I know a lot about that. So, yeah, I think you can really embody that. If you want me to explain it to you.

Tell me, what is morning sickness like? It's not good. It's hard. It often comes in the morning. I do know that. Let's get to the story. Let's get to the story, shall we? Yes, we shall. Last week we learned about Lizzie's childhood, the rules of her world, the eating disorder she developed as a teen, and the tragic, tragic death of her father. And today we get more into the darker side of this group. The part that isn't just the peaceful off-the-grid folk. the one that is controlled by a strict set of dogma and ideals. Dogma, you said it again.

I did. Which all lead to her incredible escape. One of the best escape stories ever. It's very cinematic. It is amazing. Now, obviously, when you're Amish, you are meant to have many, many, many children. Did I already say her mother had 19? 19, yes.

So in order to produce enough children to, I don't know, fill a chamber orchestra, you need to marry somewhat early in life. But the Amish dating and marriage rules are not necessarily what me, Agen, X, are, is accustomed to. It has to ask for marriage. They discuss it. They talk about it. And their wedding is usually in secret being planned for maybe six months or so. Because the wedding is at the girls' parents' house, they have to prepare.

They have to make sure they have extra stuff. for the wedding to grow extra celery that summer because they use celery as centripeses. Then people are always trying to find out who's getting married because they only get married in the winter. So how are you going to keep all this food cold so they get married in the winter because they don't have refrigeration. So at 16 and a half, you were expected to start dating. When my twin and I started dating, the first night that we were going to go to a singing, my mom comes into the room and the only thing she says to us was keep your clothes on. And we're like, what are you talking about?

So here's the thing. We kind of knew stuff because we grew up on a farm, right? But it was never explained, sex was never explained to us. Here's what happens. And here is how you get pregnant and why. Like body stuff, not explained. The idea of a baby growing in a belly, yeah, okay. That can make sense, but the idea of vaginally giving birth, that hole is so small, how the heck are you going to push a baby out of that?

Like, that makes zero sense because they don't have that kind of talk until the night before you get married. What I will say is that everybody knows what sex is by then. Some of them even have sex before they get married because of the way that they date. and it's just hormones and humans. They're not supposed to, but it happens. But they're animals. Especially the men. They are fucking animals.

They're fucking animals. Ding. This is, of course, exempting your co-host, your husband, our editor, Rob, and you all our wonderful male listeners. And not you, Jean-Claude. You're still an animal. So the expectation when you, You turn 16 and a half as you start dating.

Dating is very peculiar. It's called bed courtship and another very weird setup considering the religion. No sex before marriage, but you're dating, laying in bed together, bundling. Like, a date would be roll around in bed. Like literally. No, literally. So they only date at night and you can only be seen together at night, not during the day. But a date could either be on a Saturday night or a Sunday night, and all of a sudden it's like 10, 11, 11, or 12 o'clock, and here comes a horse and bucky with three or four guys, and one of them wants to go on a date with you.

The guys that don't want to go on a day with you, they're the ones that come up into your room to ask you if you'll go on a date with this guy. So you can say yes or no. If you say no, they'll probably keep begging, but if you say yes, then what they do is they, go outside, get the guy that's there for the date, and then they all come up, and they hang out in the room together, just talking, and they might go down to the pantry and get some pie or cookies or something, and eat, whatever, and the guy that's there for the date, he stays. After they leave, like, then you can either keep the light on or turn it off, but most of the time it goes off, and you lay down in bed, and you talk and whatever, and then he always takes the lead in what. he'll do is he'll wrap his arms around you and like roll you around that's what's called bundling like the rolling and then he'll either give you a kiss on the cheek or on the lips i always say to this joke like if he kisses you on the cheek he doesn't really like you but if he kisses you on the lips he really

likes you that's what i do that's considered a date and he has to get up and leave before the rest of the family like gets up so it could be like three or four in the morning he gets up and he leaves and he goes home. Okay, okay, okay. So much to break down from this previous segment. The late night buggy call. The Amish wing men. They're pumping up their bro. Late night pantry pie and cookies. I know. And bundling because they are bundled up, I guess, in blankets and their wool rolling around together, making a supposed emotional connection. It's so much and it's so much teenage sexual tension mired with teenage religious guilt all in one. It's like the teasing and the taunting of this is what we as fucking animals, as you said earlier, need, but God doesn't want us to have. And when I read this,

I immediately thought of floating. Which is? Okay. So it's in the Mormon world, and I know that some of our listeners are giggling because they probably know what floating is or soaking. A lot of people in Utah use the term soaking. And no, floating is not like... These are things I do at a spa. I float to another place and I soak in a hot tub. But that's not what you're talking about. It's not what Mormons do.

It's not floating in the Great Salt Lake, which, by the way, is five times saltier than the ocean. So you can literally just float on it very easily. But no. Okay. So in Mormonism, floating is a way to kind of get around the law of chastity, which is you're not allowed to have sex, right? So the man will penetrate the woman, and this of course is unmarried, Mormons. The man will penetrate the woman, but not move, not thrust. He'll just stick his penis into the vagina and not move, because when you move,

that then constitute sex. But sticking it in doesn't. So that's the loophole. Yeah. Her face is stunned, people. And then what do you do? That's it. That's what you do.

That's what you do. And you have an orgasm? I don't know. Probably, I don't know, probably not. But that's the loophole. So they can get around it and say that they haven't had sex because technically they didn't thrust, which is what sex is. Now, they've also found a loophole. They've also found a loophole to that, Liz.

In the back, in the back. No, I've heard that is happening as well. But this loophole, and this is real, this was actually such an incident that the Mormon church actually had to come out and say something about it. They have what they call, like someone who happens to be a roommate or a friend or whatever, who happens to while you're floating, just wants to jump on the bed. To make it move? Yes. So you're not moving, but the roommate who happens to just want to jump on the bed while you're in there floating makes it so you move loophole.

What the flying shit is this? No, right. I'm surprised Mormons don't live in California, just waiting for that great earthquake. Just waiting. Yeah, I know. And I thought about it. Earthquake, I'm floating in, babe. I've never done it.

I've never done it. If you're a floater and you have floated, please email us. I need a first-hand story of this. But I also think it could be kind of fun in a way, like very tantric and, you know, to have someone come in and jump on the bed. What is a woman doing in this? experience. Probably feeling guilty. I don't know. But the man's not really feeling as much pleasure either, but it's how they get around it. Liz, don't question the loophole. Are they naked? I suspect it's different every time. So Mormon soaking, you now know how to do it. You now know

that it is done. And it is very much like Amish bundling in some ways. So Amish bundling exists because it's meant to be an innocent form of connection. But when you've been suppressed your whole life, well, innocence isn't always what happens when you're in that bed. None of that makes sense. It's the perfect setup for rape and all kinds of stuff to happen. You know, bad things that happen. I got raped when I was 16.

I got raped by a cousin of mine like multiple times. like I remember the first time that it happened like I didn't fucking know what a penis was like never seen never seen anything like that you kind of knew because of babies but not as an adult and so you knew of that but you didn't know like the whole intercourse thing like I had no concept of that and he played it off as just like this normal thing but then at the end he's like Like, you can't tell anybody. Did you tell your mom after that happened? I didn't tell anybody.

But it came out. Like, somebody found out, and then it came out, and then the church, you know, because I wasn't going to tell anybody. So what they did is they punished him by shunning him because he was a member. But technically, they wouldn't be able to shun me or really punish me other than, like, your parents putting some kind of punishment on you, whatever that is. But the church, they wouldn't stop at that. And so in the Amish community, if you're not a married person, you wear a black covering to church. If you are married, you wear a white covering. But if you got pregnant before you were married, you were forced to wear a white covering to church.

Well, what they did, because of this, they made me wear a white covering to church. even though I wasn't pregnant, but two or three Sundays in a row, they made me wear the white covering. And that was to shame for getting raped. Yeah. What's even worse about that part is I had a near-death experience with this is so church finds out, he's shone for 12 weeks, then he's welcomed back into the church. I know, right? And I'm like, great. I'm so happy everything stopped. So one night we're at a singing, and after the singing, people can go on dates, and they're figuring out transportation, who takes who home, like all that nonsense. My cousin, he was trying to figure out a way that he can get me on the buggy with him to take me home. So he orchestrated the whole thing.

And like the entire time, my entire body is just like flinching because I'm like, I don't know how to use my voice. I don't know how to say, no, I don't want to do that. Please don't put me on the same buggy and nobody else is paying attention. Like, they're not watching what's happening. So I end up, as he orchestrated, I end up on the same buggy as him. And it's probably an hour ride. I don't remember because we're going home and we're actually not that far from home. And of course, he's doing his things and I just feel paralyzed.

trapped and I can't I can't fight back I can't do anything like I don't people pleasing plus suppression plus submission put it all in one basket so he lets go of the horse reins and so he let's go that while he's doing his thing and I'm like oh shit I don't know what's going to happen here but this is this isn't good he just lets the horse go never slowed down never looked Never did anything. Never, he just kept going, doing what he was doing. And as we're coming up to the intersection in my peripheral vision, I see a light to the left of me,

so I knew a car was coming. And I just remember thinking, like, I would rather be dead than be here. And I was like, I'm going to die. This is it. We crossed the intersection, and I'm telling you, it was milliseconds, milliseconds after we crossed this intercession, the car went behind us. One thing that we should pause on here is something we often see in many cultic and high-controlled environments. That is being complicit.

Because indoctrination and psychological conditioning teach people that protecting the group matters more than protecting the person. Through fear, shame, constant reinforcement, and isolation, protecting the system starts to feel necessary for surviving. And this is how abuse gets hidden, especially sexual abuse. Here is an example of that. See, after Lizzie had left the community, she went back and she confided in her mother what had happened. After I left the second time when I had like a decent relationship with my mom, I told her one time I said, you know he didn't stop. It happened again.

and like the look on her face was just like so painful. And this was my uncle's son. My uncle is the bishop of the church. So my mom tells my uncle what happened. And the uncle goes, she left the Amish. We can't take her word forward. I was like, all right. Now again, her abuser was her cousin, which is her uncle's son.

So her mother went directly to her own brother. and that is how the abuse perpetuates. Because if her uncle admitted this was true, he would then have to admit the entire system isn't safe, which threatens everything he's built his life around. So the system unconsciously trains people to minimize, rationalize, deny, and silence. Not to protect the abuser,

but to preserve their own psychological stability and the group's harmony. Here's the thing that I will say about that. it's painful to think about those things and process that, but I've done so much work to heal internally that none of that shit holds me back from anything. And what I will say to anybody that has experienced anything like that is that it does get better and it can get better and you can get your voice back. and you can stand up for yourself and you can become powerful and strong because there's people

in this world that need you. They need you and they need you to stand up and they need you to be able to be there for them. Where you get your power back is by saying fuck that, they don't get to control my mind and my body anymore and you work your way out of that and you heal. Hell yes. They don't get to control my mind and body anymore. The way you get your power back is by saying, fuck that. Repeat it after us, everyone. Fuck that.

Come on, in your car. I know you're there. Say it with us. Come on, everyone. Say it. Ready. And fuck that. Don't you feel better?

I do. I do. I do too. By now, Lizzie had had enough. Not even 18 years old and she had already lost her father, been nearly killed herself, been raped multiple times, and then got blamed for it by her community. And yet she was still expected to wake up, put the damn dress and pins on every morning and get to work. So when my twin and I were 17, we ran away together. And we were the first in our family to do that. I think at that point in time,

I was just, I was so fed up with everything, but also I knew that I didn't belong there. And I thought that was my time. I thought that was my time. Yeah, that was it. I'm leaving. So I remember when my twin and I, we came home from a Sunday night singing, and I just said, I'm running away. I said, you can come if you want.

She's like, okay, I'll come. You know where we ran away to? Across the street to the Catholic family. And we hung out there. We hung out there overnight. The next day, we somehow snuck out to, because I could see things. So we had to, like, be very careful. We snuck out to the car and hid in the car, and then they drove us into town.

And somehow there, we connected to our cousin and went to our cousin's house. Now, mind you, we're my nurse. But we were at a cousin of ours that had left like years before. And they took us in. We were there for a day. And we just hung out, like, watching TV, playing music. Like, and then at some point, we'll figure out what our next steps are. And I thought I was out for good.

And day two, a brother of ours called the house. And this was home phones. And my twin picked up in the kitchen and I picked up in the living room. And I just listened to their whole conversation without saying a word. And by the end of that conversation, she told him to come pick us up that night. And like my heart just dropped to the floor. Because I was like, I don't want to go back. This is terrible.

But I felt like I needed to go back because of her. And she's like, I just can't put mom through this. Like it's like death to them when someone leaves. And so we went back. And the next day I told her, I was like, I'm not staying. Like, I will leave again. And that's when she was like, yes, I'm going to leave too. but she didn't.

No, sadly she didn't. But that doesn't mean Lizzie didn't wait for her, like any good sister would do, hoping she would just follow through and they could finally leave together again for good. And for two years, she waited for that day that would ultimately never come. But in that time,

one thing did keep Lizzie busy and that was a boy. Busy Lizzie. Nice. And the way that I started dating, the boyfriend is a brother of mine, got married in New York. So we all went out there for the wedding, and that's where I met him. And we started dating. So we only saw each other, like, once or twice a year.

Now, dating long distance in the Amish community without electricity is not something many people think about. And then we wrote letters to each other. We were like little pine pals. I would write a letter every other week, and he would write a letter every other week, and he would write a letter every other week. I always joke because now, like, people are like, oh my God, he didn't text me back. And it's been like 30 minutes.

And I'm like, try writing letters. Two weeks for a letter. We were dating for a year and a half. We saw each other ones or twice a year. I would either travel to New York or he would travel to Ohio. But how do you travel? Greyhound boss. But you did like this guy a lot.

I liked them. But at the same time, like, I never saw myself getting married to him, but I was like, he's the best I can do. That was my thought. So leading up to the time that I actually left, I left because of him. Well, I knew I was going to leave at some point, but when I finally ended up leaving at 19, two years after that first attempt, was because of him. So he made the way, and so he served his purpose.

And planning an escape without electricity is also something most people don't ever think about. So I'm at this point in time working at my oldest sister's house, and it was my turn to deliver a letter to my boyfriend. So it's lunchtime. I have the letter, and at the top of the hill of the road is where the mailbox was. So I get there, and I open the mailbox, and there's a note in there with my name on it, but no address. And I recognized the handwriting. It was my boyfriend's handwriting. And I was like, I don't understand how this note got here. Like, he's a new York, there's no address. If you really think about it, like, what a divine moment. Like, never talked about it. He drives down, puts the note in there. I go to the mailbox. I'm the one

that finds the note. And we had never talked about leaving. So I rib open the note. And he just said in the note, like, I ran away with my sister. And we drove down from New York yesterday. and if you want to leave, we'll come by at 10 o'clock tonight and pick you up. So I snapped my fingers and I said I'm leaving. Didn't even think about it. This is my way out. And then I didn't have any way to let him know.

So I had until that evening to figure out, like, how am I going to do this? What's this going to look like? One thing that's a ritual is every night before you go to bed, everybody gathers in the living room and they all do a prayer together. and then you go to bed. And so I go upstairs as if I was going to go to bed.

As soon as I got into my room, I ripped my covering off and I let my hair down, took all my pins out, took part of my clothes, my apron, and all of that stuff off, kept just my dress. And I grabbed a few things. A flashlight, I had $20. That was it. And then I wrote a note to my mom.

And I said, this has nothing to do with anybody. here, but I have to go. And like I walk over to the window and I climb out onto the roof, because I'm going to jump off this roof. And it's like a 15 foot roof. As I'm climbing out onto this window, there's a dog underneath on the porch. And he just starts barking.

And I'm like, fuck. I'm like caught. Yes, the dog knows. And he just won't shut up. So finally, my brother-in-law, like, opens the door and he yells at him. dog leaves goes down to the barn and I'm like, thanks, he just helped me out. So I climbed out onto the roof and my boyfriend's up on the hill flashing the flashlight, letting me know that he's there.

I flash back with mine to let him know that I'm coming. That was like our little signal. And on that roof, I sit for 30 minutes contemplating. First of all, I'm contemplating how I'm going to jump off this roof and not break a bone. And I'm thinking if I break a bone, now I have to go to a hospital. They have to do surgery. And I'll look like the biggest fool in the church. And they will say, that's what you get for trying to run away. That was my first thought process. Don't break a bone.

Second thought process was my twin is getting married in six months. And I know if I leave now, I will not be at her wedding. And she had asked me to be one of her, they don't call them bridesmaids, but for lack of better word, bridesmaid. And so I'm like, man, I'm going to miss out. her getting married. I'm thinking, like, I don't know if I'll ever see my family again. Like, I don't know.

But at the same time, I also knew that if I don't take this chance when I have it, I will never leave. So I was like, nope, I just got to let everything go. And so I crawl out to the edge of the roof and I squat down. And I'm just looking down. How am I going to make it? this leap and on the on the farm you learned that cats could literally jump or drop from a 40-foot building and not break anything and the reason for that is they just let every limp in their

bodies loose like they just become a little floppy disc and so I was like all right well I'm going to jump like a cat and so I took a deep breath and I jumped like a cat and I just let every part of my body not be stiff. And when I landed, I landed on my feet, but my knees did that shock where, like, landed in that squat. Everything was fine. You're a fucking catwoman. Yeah. I should have my cat suit.

And then what did you do? You were like, okay. So when I landed, I was like, holy shit, that was loud. I was so afraid they hurt something. so I quickly ran up against the building. And then instead of just running straight out to the road, I walked around three buildings on the side of the buildings and then lubed around and walked up from there

because I was like, there's no in hell. Someone's going to find me. I got in the truck, everybody screamed and yelled, and we went back to our friend's place, and we just stayed up all night. The crazy thing about that is I had no social security number, $20 in my pocket. I had no freaking clue what I was going to do. A friend of mine, his sister was working for the restaurant,

and the owners of the restaurant were familiar with people running away, and they hired me in. I didn't have social security number, so they had to pay me under the table. The first time I got a check, it was like $50, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so much money. Let me go spend this money. And then I realized that $50 doesn't go over. very far. I was like, oh, wait, that's not a lot of money. So did you get your JC Penny moment? No, it was a Walmart. Okay, so you went to Walmart and what happens? I got underwear,

which we had homemade underwear, a pair of jeans, one shirt, socks, and shoes. That's it. Pants? Yeah, pants for the first time. And then second order of business was getting a haircut. Because cutting your hair is like the ultimate sin as an Amish woman. Like, you don't do that. A local lady that was used to Amish kids running away. So go there, like, sit in the chair and she's like, okay, like, how much do you want to take off? And I, like, went to my shoulders. And she, like, looked at me like, are you sure? Because my hair is all the way down to my hips.

And I was like, yep. So she cut him all the way to my shoulders. It's that feeling of, like, you turn around and you see yourself with a short hair. And I literally went, there you are. And I soon made you. That was the first time I saw me. A young woman who grew up without mirrors, who had never gotten a haircut in 19 years, who had been conditioned to believe that adjusting your appearance was vain and vanity was a sin,

turns and sees her true self reflected back. That visual is everything. It's very cinematic. So good. So two days after I left, I got introduced to this married couple that had left five years before. and they agreed to take me in and let me live with them, and they said, hey, you'll pay $50 a month on rent and will help you with your social security number,

your driver's license, and you getting your first car, once you have all that, you can move out. I'm just like, boom, let's go. So the first order of business was getting social security number. So I had to go find my doctor, who was my mom's doctor. I had no other doctor to get a medical record. Then I had to go to the health department and pay $25 for a birth certificate. Got that.

The last thing I needed was my eighth grade education card for a form of identity. So I had to go home on a Sunday I knew everybody was at church to go through my things to get my eighth grade education card. And then I got my driver's ed. And the first time I got into a car, I was like, I had no clue. I had to go into a parking lot with someone. And they had to tell me where everything is. And the first time I'm driving on the road was freaking scary. So scary.

Let's say you're riding in a horse and buggy. If a big truck comes towards you, that horse can get scared. And so you have to be alert and aware of like, let's make sure we don't go into the ditch. And that was my fear when I started driving a car. And then I realized I'm in control of the car. There's no horse. Like there's no horse here. But yeah.

So within two. months. I had all of that. They helped me get my car and I moved out. That's crazy. In just two months. Two months. She had a social security number, a birth certificate, a driver's license, a car, and her own place to live. Two months. Yeah. Most people can't get a passport renewed in two months. And we grew up in this modern society. And she did it with no education beyond eighth grade, with English as her second language, no family, support, no money, and a head full of dogma telling her she was damning her soul with every step. Now, of course, at this time, she did have a boyfriend, remember the one who was the catalyst

to have her leave the Amish community, but... They're fucking animals. Okay. Within two months, he kind of broke out with me because he cheated on me, and it was just like this whole thing. I don't really talk about that, because it doesn't really mean anything. to me. So about two weeks after I had left, I'm living at this couple's house, Cheek and Anna, and I'm in my room, and Anna comes to my room, and she goes, hey, there's a horse and buggy out there.

And I was like, I'm not going out there. So she goes out there and she tells them that I'm not coming out. They sat out there for two hours because they wanted to come to me and ask if it's okay, if they can shun me. I'm like, I'm not giving you the rights to shun me. Like, if you want to shun me, make that decision on your own. I'm not telling you yes, because I don't agree with it. They They sat out there for two hours. And then they left. So the church had to come together as a whole and vote. And then that's when I got shunned.

So about two months after I left, I was a dishwasher at a restaurant. And my mom and my twins showed up at the restaurant and said that they need to talk to me. It was very uncomfortable. Of course, the whole time, Mom's trying to convince me to come home. And I just really didn't say anything, but my twins' heart was obviously, like, broken. She's begging me to come home, but I'm just like, no. She then ended up getting married, and then she started having kids, and I would go see her, like, every six months to a year.

And when they had their second baby, I was there visiting, and her husband was like, you can't come here anymore. He's like, we have children now, and I don't want my kids to see you. I still remember, like, my twin sitting in a rocking chair holding the baby as he's saying this, and her head's just, like, down. Like, she's just like the saddest person ever. And I never went back. Look, I personally know twins.

I know the bond they have. They are, like, one person in two people's bodies. And to pull them apart like this is one of the many different. devastations of a cult and this cult. When was the first time you went back to see your mom? He was very uncomfortable. I think you just feel like you want to show like, hey, you're okay. And at the end of the day, you know, are they going to accept me for who I am and the choice I made?

Because I do think that a lot of people, they are looking for that acceptance from their family. but the first few years, it was difficult because it's her trying to persuade me to come back. But then eventually, I waited one time I didn't go home to see her for six months. And then when I finally did go see her, she's like, don't ever wait that long again to come see me. Because I think at that point in time, now she knows I'm not going to come back. And she accepted it a long time ago. So now is just, hey, I'm just happy to see you. And I think what makes my mom such a beautiful human being,

now is because I never tried to change her and never told her that what you're doing is wrong, what you're believing is wrong. I'm just me showing I'm okay. I'm happy. I'm living a beautiful life, not out here doing bad shit. And that is what will change people's minds about you and what you believe, not by what you tell them. And when you come from a religion where you're told all the time, like what you can and can't do, believe, don't believe. The last thing that you want is somebody to come in and tell you like, you're wrong. Now, this advice should be noted for anyone who struggles while their family members or loved ones are in a cult or in a high control group. Take note. Don't make them feel bad. Now, you probably recall the mouth-watering Amish menu that Lizzie

laid out in the previous episode. And when you've lived on a farm, and grown your own food your whole life, one thing that is a shocker from the modern world is what the hell have we done to food? I got introduced to fast food and microwave food and nutty bars and pop tarts were my thing. I loved hamburger help bring it on and 20 pounds later I was like, there's something wrong here. And then I still have body dysmorphia, so obsessed with my body. body dysmorphia in that image, unless you bite that in the butt, it will follow you everywhere. All of a sudden, people in my life started to compare me to other people. And I had to, like, nip it in the butt.

Be like, no, that's not going to happen. I am me. You're not going to compare me to them. Like, I had to do deep work personally to get rid of that comparison shit. And that's where I started to learn to really. use my voice. Because one thing that happens a lot with the Amish women is the suppression of the voice. Like, you don't necessarily have that voice. Note to listeners, insert any cult here. Or you can insert a church, a culture, a company, a relationship, or a political party, for that matter.

The first few years that you're out, you're just exploring, you're surviving. There's a massive culture shop. You're partying. You're drinking. You're drinking. You're smoking cigarettes. You're listening to music without having to hide. And really, you don't know what you don't know until you do know. And then when you do know, that's when I started going back into hiding. It's like, oh, I don't like this. This is uncomfortable.

A pendulum must swing for that is what pendulums do. Farther you pull them back in one direction, the further they swing in the other. Now, legend has it, Liz. that Galileo became interested and fascinated by pendulums after watching a chandelier sway in the Pisa Cathedral while he was supposed to be paying attention to Mass, which sounds like something I would do, but he noticed that no matter how big the swing, the time it took to swing back and forth, it stayed the same,

which became the foundation for every pendulum clock for the next 300 years. So you lock a girl down for 19 years with no music, no drinking, no real dating, no voice and you cut the rope, well, she's going to swing all the way to the other side. It's not a bad thing. It's just physics. That process, like, it takes deep work in order to get yourself out from that.

If you want to heal and get better, you have to separate yourself from the crowd. Birds of a feather flocked together. And so if you're leaving and all you want to do is hang around other ex-a-oamish people, and that's your community. I get it. I get it.

It's a comfort zone. But you can't heal there. I came to this conclusion where I was like, I got to get out of here because I was mostly hanging out with ex-Omish people and I felt this pole again.

And so I intentionally pulled myself away and I became friends with people that didn't grow up in the Amish community. And that's where I really started to grow and I would just put myself in these uncomfortable situations. Like, How do you just, how do you live life without this like doom over you and be a free spirit? Travel the world.

After I left, all I wanted to do is run away from who I was. Leave everything behind. I don't want anybody to know that I grew a homage because I don't want them to think that I'm stupid. And so if I was in conversation with someone and they set something to me, that I had no clue what it meant. I would pretend like I knew what it meant. So again, I go back to hiding because I was ashamed. There's a lot of shame while I'm in there,

but then I leave, and all I want to do is run away from that. And the truth is, Lizzie was far from stupid. We've seen that. She just was undereducated. She quickly realized she didn't just want out of the Amish life. She wanted into the world. and that meant catching up on everything the Amish never let her learn. Okay, I'm going to go get my Cheat-E-D now.

And I remember the teacher telling me to write an essay, and I didn't know what an essay was. So she was the first person that ever asked me, what do you want to do? Like, you can do anything. What do you want to do? I ended up, I passed the Cheat test the first time, and she ended up enrolling me in the Honors Student Program.

So that's where I discovered that I eventually want to go into the health field. And that's where my whole health career started with personal training, then going into holistic health and getting certified as a holistic health coach. And then after I started my business in 2020, my telehealth coaching business, so I went back to school and I studied functional health. And that's where I got certified in functional health as a practitioner. but now I'm back in school to get my doctorate in functional. So you're getting your PhD? My PhD, baby. That's amazing.

And you got married along the way? Yep, got married and was married for 10 years. Had a kiddo and then got divorced. And now we have a beautiful split 50-50 custody. and raising the kid together. So my last question for you, is the Amish a cult? I like to say that they have cult-like features.

Now, some people will argue that. But my experience and what I know from full-on cults, I don't feel that. But depending on who you ask, that come from the Amish, they'll just be like, oh, yeah, no questions asked. It is a cult. based on what you know now, how would you describe it? At least the sect that I've learned from you, it has information control.

No radio, no TV, no newspapers, no internet, no reading materials, no education. There's behavior control, right? Every aspect of your day is regulated. They're controlling how you eat, what you eat, what you do, when you go to sleep. Every moment is controlled, then there's the thought control, right? Leaving equals going to hell. So you're building this whole basis off of shunning. That's a very cult thing, right?

You're in or you're out. Us versus them. We're going to heaven. They're going to hell. That's a very cult mentality. You're needing to escape. That's very cult-like, right? The emotional control, anger is a sin.

And then just the cover-ups that happen, right? Like, your instance with the sexual abuse, how that is justified and turned back on you and to keep the community safe instead of keeping the person safe. Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. Very much true.

But I also understand it's a word that comes with, it's loaded. The reason that I'm careful with it is because of the interpretation on what you said, like the sting and the shame. And I don't want people that are still in the homage community to feel that. I want them to feel inspired to, hey, maybe this isn't right and I can leave to if I want to. Like you said, you can't ever convince somebody to leave. I 100% agree.

Even planting the seed of maybe this is a cult, that sticks with you. And that might be the thing that will help you eventually to get your voice and take ownership of your life. Yeah, no, the thing that I will say for anybody, don't be afraid to. unravel these things. Get a therapist, get a mentor, get a coach, and then go inner and read self-development books and listen to self-development, personal development. Don't shut yourself down. Like, you deserve to meet the version of you that you have never met. One of the most profound things you can do is go back and meet the little girl. And one of the things that I did to finally let her go was to go back, talk to her, talk to her.

meet her, help her heal. And one day, I said, okay, you can go now. I'm good. And I was able to walk through that door and know, like, that's no longer holding me back. One of my favorite things to ask people and make people do if they listen is I will ask them this question. If you take away all the titles, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a girlfriend, I'm a sister, whatever it is, you take away all of those titles and you write down who am I and about 100% of people can't answer it. Titles are just titles, but who are you on the inside? And there's nothing wrong with that. It just means you haven't been taught to find out who you really are. So who are you? I am Lizzie Unz. I'm a leader. I'm powerful. I'm an example. I'm a guy. I'm me.

Girl, you're about to cry. I know. No, you're going to cry. You're supposed to cry. You're supposed to I just made you cry. It's powerful. I will let you go. I know I've taken up way too much of your time. Thank you so much. It was so amazing. Now, if there's something that we can take from this story and these episodes, perhaps it's

this few lines from the first episode. Order, structure, and discipline. get up and you get your chores done, you all get together for your meal three times a day. And those are things that I see lacking so much in this chaotic modern world with access to so many quick things, Amazon priming everything, food delivery, everything, quick, fast stuff, and people wonder why they have anxiety. And the truth of the matter is, is the homage don't need the world. The world needs a little bit more Amish without the religion.

Yes, without the religion. And maybe without the control and without the voices that are suppressed. Without the eighth grade education that simply promoted her to housework. Without the young daughters that are married off. The hair that is never cut. The bodies that are rarely bathed. The children that work from age five. The women that cook for 20 plus people without complaint.

The mother's giving birth 19 times 19. The choices not given. The questions not allowed. The girls who are never asked what they want to be when they grow up. The uncles that cover up their own son's rape. And without the twin sister that won't talk to you anymore, all because you left home. Yeah, without that version of the Amish. Now the slowing down, the meals around one table,

The lack of cell phones and doom scrolling. The homemade jam. The pie at lunch. The work ethic. The showing up no matter what. The doing what needs doing. The knowing how to make something with your own hands. The entire community cooking for a funeral.

And making sure your hospital bills get paid. The lack of constant comparison and keeping up with the Joneses. The kids who actually play outside together. The gratitude for what you have. The absence of needing more. Rest on Sunday. The food you grow. And the people who show up.

And the way the day ends when the sun goes down. Yeah, we could all use a little more of that. But we could also use one more thing. Saying, fuck that! Yeah! Say it. Fuck that. Fuck that louder.

If you're at work already, screaming. Fuck that. All right. Thank you, Lizzie. You are incredible. She is. I loved our time together. She's smart and interesting and has a really cool accent, right? Yeah, I loved her.

Thank you all for listening. And Lizzie, thank you for telling such a great story, for being a badass, and for having such a very cool accent. It's very unique. We loved listening to your story. you for being bold enough to share it. Thank you, Lizzie. You're incredible.

And if you guys want to help support the work that we're doing here on Wasanacult, you can do that through joining our Patreon. And it really does help us continue to make this show. So thank you. We've had a ton of badasses recently come on our spaceship known as Patreon. Like Sue C, which I don't think that's my mother-in-law, but that's also her name. name and... Yeah, it's just Sue and then a capital C.

Yeah. So I'm going to call her after and ask. But if the real SuuC is out there, thank you. And you are thus now shaming my mother-in-law for not being a Patreon member. Get on it, Mom-in-Law. Get on it. Also, thank you, Kathy Tilbert and crafted U-B... Capted Ublet, which I looked up, and I think it's a jewelry store. It's very beautiful jewelry. Crafted Ublatt.

Thank you for supporting us. Crafted. And Diana Jackson. And then there's Shelley Roers. I know I'm not saying that right, especially because my R's sometimes. I think it's Rohear. Rohears. There's Rachel Nelson-Sara and Pamela Kuzlowskis, which I think that's probably close.

It's pretty close. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for being a part of our Patreon. Yes, thank you. May you all know the. joys of good night's sleep and the eternal knowledge of life and death. What's that from? It's not. I just came up with it. It doesn't have to be, just because it's good. Doesn't mean it has to come from somewhere else, Liz. I happen to just, it's from Stripes, the movie Stripes.

It's no, it's just a. May they all know the joys of a good night's sleep and eternal knowledge of life and death. It's nice, isn't it? Or just know that without you, our editor, Rob, would be on the streets. Probably playing a guitar for loose change. Or offering his plumbing skills up for a... Did you get that sink fixed, Rob? When we called him to join in, he was quite literally under a sink.

So he's a man of many trades, aren't you, Rob? He had recently left the Amish, and he just was installing indoor plumbing for the first time. So welcome to the... real world, Rob. Editor's note, the sink was leaking, and the sink is still leaking. We'll be back. We're going to keep coming back. So keep... Oh, we've got a good one next week, right?

We talk about an author who investigated the one taste called... Yes, we do. Orgasm cult. More orgasms coming your way. And the way that they kept their doors open is that Nicole met a man, Reese Jones, who's a Silicon Valley investor. And in exchange, he was given sexual favors by One Taste Employees. So those often looked like for his birthday every year, they would arrange these elaborate,

immersive theatrical experiences that often included a lot of sex and BDSM. One year it was themed after The Wizard of Oz, another year after Seven Deadly Sins. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. Wazana Colt is written produced, hosted by me, Liz. Promoted to podcasting, Iacuzzi. Is that a promotion? That was on my eighth grade certificate. Or Tyler, the beet wine, Somalié, Mism.

You are very good at that beat wine distinction. It's pretty good. I can tell which one goes with which meal. And our fantastic sound editor, mixer, designer, Rob Boombox, Bandit, Pera. That's all she wrote, folks. Don't forget. Fuck that. Fuck that, guys. Fuck that.