Was I In A Cult? - The BDSM Kink Scene PT2: “My Kink is Not Your Kink”

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

CONTENT WARNING: This episode discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics around sex and sexual dynamics. Amelia returns to share the conclusion of her story, exposing the hidden dangers she encountered within the BDSM kink scene in the UK. While this subculture promised sexual liberation and empowerment, Amelia reveals how it often justified harmful dynamics and enabled exploitation. In this episode, Amelia reveals the unsettling realities of concepts like ‘dark age play’ and ‘consensual non-consent,’ where blurred boundaries and the guise of consent are used to excuse abuse and shield predators from accountability. Her candid account delves into the manipulation, cult-like groupthink, and the profound psychological toll of her more than 10-years immersed in the scene. Through her story, Amelia highlights the importance of questioning systems that silence dissent, the slippery slope of power dynamics, and the courage it takes to finally shut the door for good on an environment that no longer reflects your values. Amelia's journey serves as a reminder that true empowerment comes from recognizing harm, standing against exploitation, and reclaiming your voice—even when it means walking away from the spaces you once called home. ____ Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @lumedeodorant and get 15% off with promo code “INACULT” at LumeDeodorant.com!   ____ Resist aging at the cellular level, try Qualia Senolytic. Go to Qualialife.com/CULT for up to 50% off and use code “CULT” at checkout for an additional 15% off.  ____ Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail] Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys): patreon.com/wasiinacult  Merch is here! wasiinacult.com 

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing on this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, Podcast One, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Please note, this episode discusses sex and sexual acts. Please listen accordingly. So I could tell you about things I've done and gross out your audience. Or I could say the thing I think where the harm really is psychologically and I don't want to unintentionally replay psychodrama with somebody else because I can't trust my filter to know whether I'm picking somebody who I can have a healthy relationship with or whether I've been driven by those issues where I feel like I need to punish my father or a pseudo father figure or replace some trauma. Welcome everyone to Was I in a Cult? I'm Liz Iacuzzi.

And me, this is the raspy Tyler Meesum. I have to apologize. I am a little bit sick. I have been for a few days. I have a kindergartener. He brings home adorable drawings and not so adorable germs. Tyler, thank you for being here. drawings and not so adorable germs. Tyler, thank you for being here.

I appreciate you showing up for the job no matter what. You know, you put the helmet on, Liz, and you go down in the coal mine. So today we complete Amelia's story of her experience in the BDSM kink scene in the UK. Now this is a part two, so if you haven't yet, please start with part one of her story. Yeah, part one will explain how the scene works

and get you updated on all the terms you need to know in order to understand the rest of this particular episode. Terms like? CBT, which is cock and bull torture. Munch, St. Andrew's crosses, spicy straights. PIV, penis and vagina sex, blow jobby, public-y type of stuff. Don't yuck my yum. And other terms like figging, which thanks to you, Tyler, has forever ruined the phrase

figgy pudding for me. You are welcome. So today's episode, guys, we're going to dive into the dark side of things and we will show you why, after Amelia finally left this group, she turned and asked herself, wait, was I just in a cult? Yeah, no, we're not here to label the entire BDSM scene a cult. We just simply do not have that authority. Of course. But through Amelia's experience, we're exploring the cult-like dynamics. The power imbalances, the group think, the exploitation, and the ways harm is justified under the guise of consent and liberation. And Amelia is terrified of speaking out, which is why she is using Amelia as an alias. That alone should tell you a lot.

So let's pick up where we left off. Amelia, please continue your story. This stuff, it needs the piss ripping out of it a bit, but it also needs to be understood that it's promoted culturally and online as this like you're either pro sex or you're anti sex. And it's like it's a false binary. The things that are wrong with our culture in terms of like sex and intimate relationships are historical and long produced. And there is an absolute contention for women in particular. We're sexual beings.

We want to explore things. OK, so buried within that sentence was a delightful British phrase that I need to highlight. This stuff, it needs the piss ripping out of it a bit. Now, for our American listeners, taking the piss does not mean what you think it might. Yeah, it's not about finding the nearest bush at Coachella. Nor is it to be confused with the term piss and vinegar.

Which is Pringles' latest flavor, actually. It's quite delicious. Anyway, taking a piss means to mock something, really rip into it, humorously, of course. Yeah, we basically take the piss out of Colts on the weekly. We do. And you basically take the piss out of me on the weekly as well, Liz. And I plan to continue taking piss out of you, Tyler. For as long as you will let me, sir.

You know what, Liz, it really changes when you take the the out of the phrase. I'll take the piss out of you, but I feel bad doing it when you're sick. I'll be nice. I'll keep your piss in. I won't take it out of you today, Tyler. Oh, God. OK, back to Amelia. It's like, if you look at women's sexual history, there hasn't been a moment in patriarchal culture where we've been able to articulate for ourselves, we're sexual beings, we want to explore things. And it's like, oh, yeah, to right-wing men, women are private property, to left-wing men, women are public property.

And that, I think, just captures that sense of where it is really difficult to be a woman who doesn't have her sexuality. It's like, you try and explore behind closed doors, and you don't get to use your sexual voice to get shut down. You try and explore in a public space, and you leave with trauma, and there's no winning. But I think it's a problem that's wider than the kink scene. We have

a cultural problem more broadly about authentic human connection and being vulnerable with other humans. But then I think the kink scene is a microcosm of our macro culture and we have hierarchical cultures. We exist in a patriarchal culture. I thought there might be a place where I could find those issues, but it's not. It's just a concentrated location of the same issues. The whole ethos is I'll do what I want because I feel like it. But I think, yeah, I was going out there trying to find some sexual intimacy. Oh, but there's the scene, I wouldn't say it sells intimacy, sells a peer group of like minded people where you can be your authentic self, whatever that means, just as long as you're willing to

compromise on all of your values. Enter groupthink mentality. And according to Amelia, the scene attracts an array of people. But two problematic types in particular are predators and abusers. What you're doing is you're teaching this person to be a better predator. And also there is no interest at all about what I think is one of the biggest problems, which is domestic abuse and coercive control. The amount of abusive relationships that hide behind a dormant sub-dynamic in that subculture is just shocking. When I started years ago, the age play and the stuff wasn't

a huge thing. It's grown exponentially. There'll be people claiming that role-playing sexual assaults can be healing. And it's like, is it? I'm sorry, who's the qualified therapist in this room to call that out? And yeah, one of the strangest claims I came across was some woman, the website which the whole scene gathers around is called FetLife. And she was claiming to be from the university, wanting to do a research project into whether non-offending, minor attracted persons,

so basically, paedophiles, whether there's room to have a treatment where they are matched with age players, so people who are over the age of consent who pretend to be children, to role play like dark age play as a sort of healing therapy. They were actual pedophiles? Oh well this is it, they're non-offending you see, so that's fine. A bit of my argument was why are you trying to design an intervention for

somebody who's non-offending? And also isn't that a bit of an assumption to make? Because anybody who works with sex offenders knows they are some of the most manipulative people you'll ever meet. Who are the people that are drunk in this? Board game playing beardoes is how I would describe the men. Beardoes? What are beardoes? Weirdos with beards. Oh the men. Beardos? What are beardos? Weirdos with beards. Oh, okay. I love that word.

So the women, there's this weird mix of like super hot and majorly insecure lads in their twenties. It's just this weird like, why are you here with him? You're gorgeous. And they're just radiating insecurity. And then you've got just sort of average looking middle-aged people. And it tells you everything you need to know about where the power really lies in this

scene, because the people who are most likely to be exploited are the younger, weirdly gorgeous women who've ended up in this subculture. gorgeous women who've ended up in this subculture. But no, we don't want women getting together and comparing notes and having conversations. The scene relies a lot on this notion of consent. So I'll go back to that idea of you're in a coercive controlling relationship, it's non-consensual. So what we'd call domestic abuse, but I'm glad the language is opening up now to talk more about coercive control because that underpins these toxic relationships. You then go onto the scene. You're either somebody who you're somebody who's drawn to control and power in these relationships and you're like, oh, well, it's fine, because we're consenting.

What I found over time is that for the person who's consenting, it can be a massive head fuck. It's not my story to tell, but I've seen this happen a couple of times where people have agreed to some quite extreme things and it's been traumatizing. But because they've consented to it, it's a head fuck. It's like they then have to sort of blame themselves. And then it's just these layers then go up where you can see the trauma defenses going up. There's some stuff you just can't consent to. But the scenes, one of the scenes' values, in addition to your kink is not my kink and that's okay,

so your lack of judgment, an underpinning value of the scene is supposed to be consent. It is a very thin transactional notion of consent. And one thing I've realized as well is the person who's on the receiving end of this stuff, it becomes like a protective shell that it looks like they're being vulnerable, but they're not. So there is a sort of like an intimate sexual dance that's happening. But looking back, I think what happens is you don't end up with a relationship that's grounded in authentic vulnerability. You end up with a relationship that's grounded in trauma bonding. To have an

authentic connection with somebody you have to be really vulnerable and the whole kink interaction is a pseudo expression of intimacy, but it's one each party feels they're in control of. So you're not actually being intimate, you're performing in intimacy and what you're having is a trauma bond. So some of the relationships I've seen that I'd say they would be domestic abuse if they weren't claiming that it was consensual. Some of the stuff I've seen like there'll be a male dom, he'll have a series of girlfriends, and you get to know the girlfriends, and they've all got domestic abuse in the past.

You work out somebody who's looking for somebody to role-play domestic abuse with and be fine with it. I think it's a toxic dance. And I do think there's also the trauma bond of trying to replay things so they're safe. So, say somebody's had horrendous domestic abuse, they come onto the scene, then they're in control of what happens to them.

So they're in control of the roller coaster. Like, they don't know how to have a healthier relationship. So even though it's consensual but you're still with somebody who finds abusing their partner attractive. Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from Uncommon Goods. Okay guys the holidays are here which I love but if you're anything like me finding the perfect gift can feel impossible. That's why I love Uncommon Goods. They make gift giving so fun and easy. They scour the globe to find super thoughtful truly

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and smell good. So as Amelia got further into the scene, things were not as they appeared or promised to be. But as she stated, speaking out against things you don't believe in was not allowed. One of the things that they do on the scene is a thing called CNC, and it stands for Consensual Non-Consent.

To me, that is a ridiculous statement. But what gets me is the culture claims to be masters of consent, but it's got such the thinnest model of consent and it celebrates removing consent basically. It drives me nuts because for a load of people who claim to be so ethical, it's the most shallow and the most simple model you can get. It isn't even accounting for trauma-informed perspectives or other perspectives. And I'm just like, you're all legs pretending yourself so virtuous and saintly because you're a male feminist. Yet you're taking the most consumeristic, economic, lazy interpretation

of what is supposed to be a cornerstone value and just running with it because it suits what you want to do. And that's the only reason why I think as much as saying the sinner and every human being is a mix of good and bad things. But one thing I've really noticed on the kink scene is people are desperate to be seen to be good people. And it's like an overcompensation because I think they're in denial about the problems of what they're wanting to do. As Amelia describes it, the way the UK kink scene justifies everything is through their saying, my kink is not your kink. Meaning, you're not allowed to judge what I'm into, even if it's role playing, domestic abuse or pedophilia. And that grew to be more and more of a problem for Amelia.

So one thing I'll talk to people who are new on the scene, or I used to when I still had a hand in, was don't do CNC. Again, CNC means consensual non-consent. So essentially, role playing non-consent. Maybe just stick to, like like role playing firemen. Yeah. The plumber comes in. The plumber, yeah. And it sounds exciting because you know, it's probably why I've ended up falling out with

some people from it because talking to their partners on the quiet and just going, don't do it, do not do it, it it will traumatize you it's not fun and it's because people are attracted to the thrill of the drawn to the flame and into sports or something you get that massive adrenaline rush and your body will produce a lot of chemicals so there is a point where the chemical reactions you're getting will produce a certain type of high so yeah i think there's a complex chemical reaction that's going on. But then you get sub drop and top drop. So like the next day, it's like a come down from the whole experience. And yeah, I'd say in terms of the people who are attracted to the subculture,

you've definitely got a lot of neurodiverse people. But yeah, the neurodiverse naivety that can go along, that's a hard thing to take on board. And I have to sort of think, I have to acknowledge myself. I'm naive in certain places. So as much as I'm processing myself being an actor and doing things I found problematic and owning that, I'm also having to own a depleted self-image where I'm more vulnerable than I thought I was because of neurodiversity and reflecting on how that's shaping things. But there is an undercurrent of strange family dynamics because you can then start seeing patterns in your own childhood of, yeah my parents were not interested in me as an individual, or there

was a cold and distance thing. It's a mix of just problematic cold family upbringings or very chaotic family upbringings. Genuine neurodiversity, it's just a space where they want to explore predator psychopath manipulator types and trauma. To me it generally boils down to rather tedious issues with your parents. Honestly it sounds so freaking trite but yeah I think it is and there's parental dynamics in there and I'm almost like your classic daddy issues girl and a lot of the submissive men on the scene have got mummy issues and I think a lot of the dominant men do as well when you hear a little bit about their past that they'll be either incredibly cold mothers or very chaotic mothers, mentally

unwell mothers. I think also there's people who are drawn to it because there's a thrill of a chaotic dynamic as well. It's not something that people really like to talk about or admit, but if we're going to work towards having a better understanding of what healthy relationships actually do look like, we do need to acknowledge that unhealthy dynamics have an attraction to them. And it's like the roller coaster ride at Fairgrounds, they've got the ups and the downs. Now, naturally, when something allows for quote unquote, consensual abuse, there are bound to be ramifications. So when you're talking about abuse on the scene, like I don't know a single woman who's not had some sort of traumatic experience, you try and talk about it with with men and they'll be like, oh, yeah, but then there's the

male submissives who get financially exploited. I'm like, getting financially exploited because you've got a hard on and you're too stupid to realise that giving somebody £50 up front, making that the same as you've been digitally raped by somebody who thought you had a relationship with, is not the same thing. And then there's the porn-sick mots as well, and I think the porn sickness just riddles not the same thing. And then there's the porn sick mots as well and I think the porn sickness just riddles through the whole thing. You will get asked to do porn if you're a younger woman on the scene and I've known quite a few people do some quite hardcore

porn. And again no one sat down with them going what about if you want to be at some job where your pitch is potentially going to be out there? Because these are niche productions. You're not going to disappear in the sheer toxic volume of, you know, PIV sex. These are people doing incredibly brutal scenes who are very identifiable. I've been asked to take part in PORM. It always came through somebody else. It was never a direct ask. And I would just counter going, can I wear a mask?

And then the ask would disappear. The women are always seen. The male subs will wear masks. So their identity will be hidden. The women submissives, no masks. The women tops, no masks. And I think that tells you exactly who the product is. The pathway to taking part in varied elements of either pornography or pro-work. There's a line somewhere

between prostitution where you're selling your body and selling sexual services. So the people who I tend to know who are involved in selling sexual services, psychologically it seems less harmful, but they're still dealing with the same issues of they know they've got an expiry date. They know when they hit their 50s that career is going to be out the window. There's a lot of do I need to get my boobs done to be more appealing. How do you move from the kink scene into the pro work? There tends to be sort of listings, websites you can use. You just list what you're interested in.

Some of the pro doms do have their own websites and there's very much an international community. So the pro doms in particular, you've got people who just are huge fans. They're almost like poster girls, so spending time with your favorite poster girl or something. And there's a huge distinction between that type of work and actually selling your body. And it's quite funny when you hear the conversations between the people buying the pro work is like, yo, yes, no, it's terrible. It's not to be mixed with sex stuff. It's a very different world and it's within the pro community. A big divide between the services and the sex. And I don't know anybody who sells the sex.

I find that the sales side is more a feminist complexity issue. It's not so much a cult issue. But yeah, you will get people who are hug boxed at age 18, have all sorts of complex polydynamics relationships, end up doing pornography, end up damaged and traumatized, and then everyone's like, oh, you're just crazy. Fuck off. Your problem. This person's experiences have made them mentally unstable, and this scene has played a very big role in that. It just becomes another way of not being able to criticize the scene. OK, quick interjection.

Amelia used a fantastic term there, hugboxed. It describes an environment where people are overly shielded, validated and never challenged, which is very cult-like. As Amelia said, it creates a bubble where criticism is not welcome. Hugboxed. Yet another phrase we shall use on this show henceforth. Because people want to do the act that they want to do. They don't want to have to be told no or do some self-reflection. Like cults, it's your problem. It's your fault, never taking responsibility.

Unless you've been told off for a consent violation so you're doing your kinky Hail Marys to prove that you're safe again. You'll get people going, oh I've been reading up on this and I now understand what I did wrong and let me back and I'm like, mate if you've got to 32 and you don't understand what consent is, then you're literally performing the rituals to get back to the vulnerable pool. And I don't think for a second you've changed your mindset because if you had, you wouldn't want to be going back to where the vulnerable pool of people with fluffy-edged consent was. You would be going back. I need to go and be like, well, I'm doing this. I'm going, I need to stay well away from all of this

and work out what on earth it was that drew me to it, kept me involved for so long. And how am I going to live with the decisions that I've made that have certainly affected my mentality and my capacity to have intimate relationships? And I can understand why people would prefer to do the Hail Marys or lie to themselves. It's not the easiest path that I've laid. Let's be real, aging isn't exactly the most welcome guest in life. The aches, the slower recovery, the constant, oh how am I tired again, feeling. Well guys, enter Qualia Centilitic. Now, I have been a fan of the Qualia brand of products for years.

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Host Jason Blair sits down with fascinating people from all walks of life. Think true crime, mental health, society and culture, and just chats. It's not scripted, not overproduced, just real stories that make you think. And since you guys like this show, several episodes actually capture the impact of religious trauma on people. A former journalist for the New York Times and other papers, Jason has made a remarkable comeback since a 2003 scandal that led him to start work in mental health. His empathetic perspective and belief in learning through shared experiences make these interviews deeply insightful and

inspiring. Fans of this show will be sure to enjoy the Silver Linings Handbook. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and I would suggest starting with the episode about grief, ghosts, and love. It's fascinating. And like all cults, this group too has its share of exploitation. Some of the problems that are going on and the real problems, I think, in that subculture are the exploitation, particularly of traumatized women. And then then you can also see how this space grows up for misogyny and inceldom to grow up. Because part of the whole incel movement is, oh, women just really enjoy pain.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the amount of incel adjacent there is on that FetLife website. Because these are people who think that women should be sexual slaves to men. You're on a platform that is saying it is fine for women to be sexual slaves to men as long as they consent. And then you're complaining that there's too many incels. I'm like, just listen to yourselves. It's like, do you know what communities don't complain about attracting incels? Communities that have nothing to attract incels. Fair point, Amelia. You become quite tribal and things happen gradually as well.

There is definitely some social contagion because of the people pleasing. I think that goes on amongst the submissives. Nappy wearing, like diapers, the American thing. That wasn't a thing 12 years ago. It was some weird niche thing that you might see some porn of. Now, age-playing nappy-wearing things is just so prevalent. It's just like, when did this happen? So there is that boiling frog kind of effect. But I'm not saying that things were better in the past because I think the old BDSM scene, it was very much exploiting heteronormative

domestic abuse situations. And I do wonder if that contributes to these subcultures that used to be quite niche-y and it used to be you had to buy a porn mag from the top shelf in a, call a special number and find out about these clubs. As it's grown in popularity because of the internet and porn, but as we've grown more polarised, it's just become more culty. You're either part of it or you're not. You can't be, say, that neurodiverse person who's really got a thing about Lycra

and finds some people who aren't going to be horrified at it. You have to go the whole hog and you have to believe everything that everybody else does. I think I've had lingering doubts about the kink scene for a few years and it's just built up over time. And I had a lot of my friends were sort of involved with it. There was bits I wasn't happy about but I was getting more vocal about the things I wasn't happy about and I was still in that phase where I thought oh oh, if I can create the events that are more like what I'd like to see,

then I can contribute to this scene being a better place. And it just doesn't, you go through this sort of like, delusional stage of it. I can only describe it as, it was a pin sharp moment, because it's hard for me sometimes to recall things because I've just done so many things over the years. But there was a pain-based session, a scene I was doing with my partner and it just felt like I'd grabbed onto a live wire of toxic energy and I just felt like I'd grabbed onto this live wire and it's the color of bile and it's Nazi boots

and it's hatred and it's this sticky toxic evil that is just wrong. And previously what I'd felt was quite joyful connection, like a sort of whitey blue connective energy. And I was like, where the fuck had that come from? There was something that was different and it's wrong. And I don't know where the contours of what's different is or why it's changed. And I think that was a real moment for me of like,

because I ended up with this sort of like weird psychic residue afterwards, where I'm way more sensitive to just horrible things than I used to be. And I think it's as I've been dealing with my own, like, why was I attracted to this energy? It's me who's looking at myself after that experience of really feeling that live wire of toxic evil sludge, where I'm like, no, this isn't right. This isn't right. You know what I avoid way more than I'd like to during the holidays? Stuffing.

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However, Ballard's crusade to save innocent lives has always hidden a darker secret. Well, I think he's a pathological liar. Beneath the accolades and the applause, a dark storm has been brewing. I mean, I can't find a time that he's told the truth about anything. Shocking allegations of sexual misconduct have surfaced, casting a shadow over his once unquestioned reputation. I am host Sarah James McLaughlin, and in this new season of The Opportunist, we explore the rise and the fall of Tim Ballard.

Join us this October for Tim Ballard unmasking a hero. Subscribe to a new season of The Opportunist Now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Tyler, how are you holding up there, kiddo? You know, I'm trying not to walk through the tunnel into the light. Stay out of the light. I think some people will like your raspy voice.

Yeah, it's very Kim Karns, isn't it? Yeah. Total eclipse of the heart going on. Which did you know that song was number one for six straight weeks? Rest Your Voice, Tyler. Six straight weeks. You said you wanted to rest your voice

and you can't help it and you can't help it. You can't help it. Fine, give us one chorus. Give us one line. I'm not going to sing it. I gave you the stat. Come on, do it. I gave you the stat.

You got the voice. Give us one line. One line. Nope. The people are begging. There will be Roman showers. You're going to throw up on us? Great.

Back to the story. So Amelia, after having had her live wire realization, extricated herself from the BDSM scene, an environment in which she had spent many, many, many years. You don't realize how bad it is until you're fully out the situation and you're like, oh my God. But it's, I feel it for me aligns with my values to share the experiences I've had so others can hear a counted narrative to the one that's very popular about the kink scene. What do you have to say to the younger you who is wanting to maybe explore this?

Get some therapy and go find some wholesome activities basically. But I think the younger me wouldn't have listened. There's a drive to try and explore these things. You're damned if you do, if you're damned if you don't. I would encourage people to think about taking part in this subculture. don't let it become your whole life. Yeah, do develop some friendships, just be aware they're often very shallow, they're often very transactional. And yes, I've left the subculture with solid friendships, but they've taken time to develop like a healthy friendship should.

Just, it isn't what it advertises itself to be. If you're going to get involved, be cautious. It's the scene and the culture that is the cult. It's perfectly possible to have your psychosexual landscape be non-normative and be kinky. And as Amelia started to speak up against things she didn't believe in, like the dark age play or domestic abuse roleplaying, she was quickly outcast. What is interesting leaving the scene, because one thing I want to be really clear as well is,

I left. There's this myth going around that somehow I've been excluded. And it was like, no, I chose to leave. And so I tried to ask some people like, what have I done? Because quite frankly, for people who like roleplaying pa pedophilia and punching women in the face, the only allegations I can think of would be like, I do old ladies shopping on Sundays. I pet kittens. I work at Cat Century. What can you accuse me of when your value system is that flawed and fucked? value system is that flawed and fucked.

So Amelia's forthrightness and openness about her past is only possible because of her very brave admission. What I've done in the past and the desire to, like, sexually hurt men is not a healthy thing. It's not come from a healthy place. And psychologically having to own that is difficult. You have to grieve a future you wanted. so you've got grieving you need to do. You've also got some shame you need to work through, or genuine shame of that wasn't a good thing to do. And also some hard self-reflection of what's going on with myself and my subconscious. I had troublesome issues in my childhood. It shaped who I am. I didn't intend to harm people. I thought what I was doing at the time was fine.

And there's been a little bit of like, I need to sort of forgive myself for that, but not let it carry on. Because I need to do the changing. So today, Amelia is free from the bondage of the bondage group and is continuing to grow. I've been working on loving myself and just having that healthy relationship with myself, but also getting more confident in myself about, look, yeah, I do actually know what a healthy relationship looks like. And then I'm focusing on just loving bonds with people who are not in an intimate relationship with family, friends, and exploring vulnerabilities in those spaces.

I still would consider myself somebody who has that sort of interest in the non-heteronormative sex. And I still have that sense of like when it comes to my sexuality I'm the one who like you know likes to be the giver rather than the receiver. I'm not needing a lot I've got a lot I'm thankful for in my life I'm happy with a lot of things. I like myself including all the weird messy edges. I like the people who I have in my life and I really value having them. And I want to just have more of those things. It's people and just doing good things with your time.

So, yeah, it's been a sigh of relief. And that, folks, is our show. Now, this may not seem like your typical cult. However... If you take anything away from listening to our show, it's that the cult techniques are present, such as a promise in the beginning, right? In this case, sexual freedom and empowerment. But then it's cowered in control, exploitation, and some abuse.

And to join, you need to adhere to the same feminist ideology, or at least pretend you do. Yeah, and there's also groupthink, power imbalances, and a system that protects abusers while silencing dissent. Amelia's story reminds us that exploitation can hide behind even the most progressive seeming values like consent and sexual liberation. And when questioning the system isn't allowed and harm is minimized or dismissed, it creates a dangerous environment, one that thrives on manipulation and control.

And while, quote, your kink is not my kink sounds open minded, it's weaponized to justify harm and silence critique. And like so many cults, it's not just the leaders who perpetrate the harm, it's the culture itself with its rigid rules, its double standards, and its refusal to take accountability. And Amelia's feeling of being a pariah once she left, you know, the trope of, quote, us versus them. In this case, us versus the

Vanillas, you're either in or out. You know, non culty groups don't have an in or an out. You know, but also Amelia showed us the power of walking away, of self reflection of choosing a life that more aligns with your values, even when leaving is complicated and ever evolving. And what we hope this show does is help you spot the red flags, question the harmful systems you might be in and recognize when it's time to leave. Thank you, Amelia, for your openness in sharing your story. And thank you, listeners, for coming on this journey with us.

And if you guys like our show and what we're doing here, we would love, love, love for you to rate, review, subscribe, share the show. If you have not done that already, we really appreciate the support. Yep. And until next week, everyone stay curious, stay critical, and remember, just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's acceptable. Damn, Tyler, dropping that knowledge even on a sick day. Cough, cough. And now we're gonna go take the piss out of something.

And I'm gonna go take an actual piss. I might go piss on some figgy pudding. I don't know, what do you guys think? Tyler keeps giving me this, he has this new figgy pudding recipe and it's really spicy and really gingery and I don't like it, but he keeps making me eat it. I am not feeling good already guys, seriously.

You mean the figgy pudding enema? Mm, it's delicious. Put that piss back in you. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do and produced by me, Lizzy Cousy, and the sick dying horse, Tyler Mason. I'm hanging in. I'm still here. Sound design and edit by the figgy pudding Mastro, Robert Para. Please sir, may I have some more?

And there's our fantastic assistant editor who helps us a great deal, Greta Stromquist. Social media, Maven, it's Shani Payton. We love you, Shani. Thank you. And our wonderful, ever-present, ever-charming executive producer, Mr. Steven Labrum. Got a twinkle in his eye, that's Steven. And a whip in the other hand.

As only Rob would know. Get better, Tyler. I am gonna try to. I'll be back next week and I will be 100%, maybe. You'll probably be back next week. I may be back next week. We hope so. Take out your knife.

Purify me Don't spare my life Crucify me