Was I In A Cult? - The Cult of Emmanuel David Pt2: “The Cult’s Second Coming”

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Content Warning: This episode contains references to sexual abuse, coercion, and emotional trauma.Last week, we met Zipporah—a woman who spent 44 years inside a Utah cult so small and obscure, most people never even knew it existed. That is, until 1978, when a horrific tragedy made national headlines.The cult was led by Emmanuel David, a self-declared prophet who eventually proclaimed himself God. After his suicide, his wife—his most devoted follower—carried out an unspeakable murder-suicide that took the lives of their children.All but one.Their daughter Rachel survived—and in many ways, because she did, so did the cult. It should’ve died with its leader. But for a small group of devoted followers, it didn’t.Zipporah was one of them.This is Part 2 of her story… how the cult kept its grasp on her for the next 40 years until she finally was able to break free. ________Follow Us for More Culty Content:Instagram & TikTok: @wasiinacultSupport the Show:This show is listener-powered. If Zipporah’s story moved you—please rate, review, and share.Thank you to our Patreon members!! We appreciate you. And if you would like ad-free episodes and exclusive content, consider joining our Patreon.Share Your Story:Have a cultic experience of your own? We want to hear it.Email us at [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle III, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the Grandview shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in the supernatural thriller that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series.

Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, Podcast One, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Please note that today's episode includes discussions of sexual abuse, suicide, and a mass tragedy involving children.

Please listen with care. Well, this goes back to the who everybody was in past lives. So I had to pick one of those names. And I picked Zipporah, because Zipporah in the Bible is a pretty strong character. She actually ends up saving Moses's life from an angel that was coming to kill him because he wasn't circumcised. So yeah, she cut off his dick skin and I kind of resonated with that name. So that's why I have kept it. A woman after my own heart. Welcome back to Was I in a Cult? I'm Liz Iacuzzi. And I'm Tyler Meesom.

And just because she cut off his dick skin doesn't mean she was being mean. She was just being a doctor. Yeah, she was taking care of debris. I think we covered a bit of the dick skin part of dick skin and uncleanliness in a couple of episodes. Yeah. We did. Last week we met Sephora. She is a woman who spent the first 44 years of her life inside a cult so small and obscure that most people never knew it even existed.

Yeah, except for those watching the news in the late 70s and those who lived in Utah during that time, because this tiny cult made national headlines. It was a belief system built around a man named Emmanuel David, who first declared himself a prophet, then Jesus, and eventually, of course, God. Yeah, I mean, that is the natural progression. That is the natural progression of … If you're going to climb the career ladder … Go big or go home.

You go to the top, right? But when Emmanuel died by suicide in 1978 and his wife, his most devout follower, she carried out an unthinkable act, one that remains a very haunting tragedy in Utah history. STACEY And yet, after their deaths, what should have been the end was only the beginning of a new chapter. CHUCK In part one, we heard how Zipporah was raised under that doctrine and how even after the deaths, she remained convinced that Emanuel David would return back to Earth, ushering in the doomsday.

STACEY Now, if you haven't heard part one, please go back, start there, because it will that Emanuel David would return back to Earth, ushering in the doomsday. Now, if you haven't heard part one, please go back, start there, because it will be important for context. And because today in part two, Zipporah walks us through what happened after, when the cult didn't die. Here's part two of Zipporah's incredible story. So what happened is we moved to Denver.

My uncle and my cousin, whom I'd never met, showed up and my cousin, who was 24 at the time, I was 16, he came and lived with my grandma. So I started getting to know him and we became really good friends. And then it changed and he started being weird with me and like he wanted to like have a sexual relationship with me and I'm like weirded out by this and he told me something that my mother didn't warn me about was that he was adopted. He wasn't biologically my cousin. And so he manipulated me into having sex with him. And he guilted me into it. He was like, okay, well, if you're not going to sleep with me, then I need to

go find somebody else and I can't hang out with you anymore because he knew how lonely I was and how hard that would be for me to just let go of the friendship. I told my mom everything. She was very upset and I was very upset because I felt like she let me down, that she didn't protect me. Well, I mean, she was upset with him, obviously, and she said, you're never seeing him again. And I was like, no, you can't do that. And like, I never yelled at my mom. This was one of the only arguments that we had.

And I was so mad. And I said, I'll take the fucking bus. But she turned to me and she said, you know that language you're using, the F word? That's all you're good for. And I thought, she's right. That is all I'm good for. I felt like I had let God down. I'd let my mom down. I'd let everyone down. Like my dad said, if David isn't God, there is no God.

Now remember, the cult is still culting with its new leader, Jacob, who's the brother of the now-deceased Rachel David. Rachel David And then Jacob came to live with us. And then his sons came to live with us. And so it was a house full of people. It actually became more restricted because they had a different idea of how things should be. So my mom, she didn't tell Jacob or the rest of the group anything about what had happened with me initially.

I think she kind of knew what they would think of me and her if they knew. So at the time that we moved, I was still 16. His sons, they would have been, let's see, 29 was the oldest. Gerald was about 27. And then Don would have been quite a bit younger, say 25. See, I didn't know this at the time because I was, like I said, extremely naive, but each one of those boys had a crush on me and thought that I might be their wife. Now, from my mother's understanding, there wasn't anyone for me. I wasn't supposed to marry anyone. Okay, this is where the ideas of what was right and wrong diverge from Jacob's family and our family. They thought that I was meant to marry one of them. And Gerald was, it was kind of like that kindergarten

thing where, you know, if you really have a crush on a girl, you'd be mean to her, pull her hair and stuff like that. He ended up being very mean in many ways. He didn't approve of the way I was. It's called negging, and it's not just kindergarten where people do this. Grown-ups use it all the time in dating scenarios. It even got mainstream attention in the early 2000s with a unfortunately best-selling book called The Game. Oh yes, the game renowned in many douchebag circles. It was written by a guy named Neil Strauss, a former journalist turned pick-up artist

that popularized tactics like negging as a way to knock down a woman's confidence and make her crave your approval. This book was aimed directly at men who generally neg much more than women. Why? Why is that, Tyler? Oh, well... Why? Why? Hmm...

Why? Well, not speaking for myself, naturally. Obviously. But cognitive and socialization studies confirm that men, other men, on average are less equipped with emotional vocabulary and comfort in expressing feelings. They've been socialized with fewer tools for genuine emotional connection. So they might default to negging as a way to connect.

As a way to connect? Really? So what you're telling me is you just need more hugs? I mean sometimes a man just needs to be held and told he's pretty. Whatever it is, negging is a way to control and cult leaders neg all day long. You know, the subtle slow jabs that erode your self-esteem and make you question yourself. And that leads to what psychologists called intermittent reinforcement, a pattern of occasional praise mixed with criticism.

And then all of a sudden, you're now craving the approval and love from one who is abusing you. It's emotional push and pull designed to keep you off balance and compliant. Right. And so Neil, the author of The Game, was teaching people how to become mini cult leaders. Now a friend of mine happened to teach a workshop on the game years ago, and I talked to him about this, and he told me that he went to this hotel, a Motel 6 and wherever, and X amount of men came, kind of undesirable men, and he would teach them how they could pick

up on women, and they would put it in action. They would go to a bar. Now, he told me a line that they would use, which is villainous and brilliant in its same platform. And he said, men would go up to women and say, those shoes are ugly. You should let me buy you some. So it's like, you can't afford it. Yeah. You're a woman, you have no taste. Right.

Shoes are a woman's thing. And also I can take care of you and I can afford to buy you shoes. Right. Yeah, and I'm interested in taking you to buy you shoes. I mean, it's really encompassed in what, 10 words? Yeah, it does a lot. Yeah, it really does a lot.

Well, I did some digging on Neil, Tyler. Oh, did you? I did. Just to see, you know, what the guy's been up to since 2005. And I decided I would write him a little letter from the bottom of my nagging heart. Would you like to hear it? Please. Dear Neil, So I see you tied the knot in 2013, had a kid in 2015, and divorced in 2018.

What happened? Were you too boring? Maybe instead of picking up chicks, you should have picked up a personality. And dude, what's up with the dime store guru vibe now? What are you trying to be? A paler, bolder, skinnier Tony Robbins without a following? How many of your hallmark quotes on your Instagram were written by you and how many did you find on quotes.com?

Speaking of Instagram, it seems your page is all about promoting emotionally healthy boundaries, which I can imagine is easy for you when there aren't a lot of people eager to cross yours. Listen, if you're ready to get back out there, I may know a girl who, you know, might give you one date, but if you want her to stay the whole dinner, I suggest you never open your mouth. Just don't talk at all because you don't want to give it away that you're a complete douchebag right out of the gate. Just food for thought. Oh, and you know what? Your glasses are ugly and you should let me buy you some. Love, Liz. Make sure you stamp that envelope when you send it, Liz.

Oh, I will. Oh, I will. I hope you hear this, Neil. Yeah, I'm sure he listens to our show. And now let's get back to Zipporah. I had agreed to take care of Rachel at this time because my mom was working all day long. She'd get Rachel up really early in the morning, shower her, get her ready for the day, and then I would take care of her the rest of the day.

And I would cook the meals. I would clean the entire house every day. It was a lot. It was a lot of stress, a lot of pressure, and Gerald made it even worse because he would criticize everything I did. It was difficult because there were a lot of ups and downs. I mean, he would be sweet and nice sometimes, and sometimes he would apologize to me, and then the rest of the time he'd turn around and just be awful.

Yeah, and then once he found out that I'd had sex before, it got 10 times worse. My mom told everyone what had happened to me. You know, she didn't mention that I was raped, but she said that I had boyfriends and that I wasn't a virgin. And then I was just looked at as this, wow, you really are just a screw up.

Which is why I didn't want them to know in the first place, because I was already angry with myself and embarrassed and humiliated and shamed without them knowing. But afterwards, it was like a hundred times worse. Jacob still had the authority, but Gerald could ignore him if he wanted to. And Gerald had said many times, if it was up to me, I'd kick you out because you're a sinful person, because I had had sex and I wasn't married.

And according to him, I was boy crazy. OK, listeners, you know, we love a good mystery around here. Twists, secrets, murder, hidden agendas. Sounds familiar, right? So let me introduce you to our new obsession. I mean hobby. That's June's Journey. It's a beautiful hidden object game set in the 1920s where you get to help June, an amateur

detective with great style and a complicated family, uncover the truth behind her sister's death. It's got scandal, it's got mystery, it's got me yelling, How did I miss that clue? at my phone in public. Yeah, I played this afternoon during my lunch break. I have a plot twist. I was solving crimes in a jazz age mansion.

You spot clues and lush hand-drawn scenes from New York parlors to Parisian sidewalks. You piece them together in a tangled web of secrets. Plus, you get to build and decorate your own island estate. It's like murder and HGTV. It's a win-win. There's a detective club where you can team up with other sleuths. I joined one and now I feel like, I don't know, I'm in a cult, but like a supportive clue-f clue finding non-destructive one.

How sharp are your observation skills? Put them to test in June's Journey. Download it for free today on iOS and Android. That's June's Journey free on iOS and Android. Hey guys, real quick, if you're planning to come to our show in LA later this month for reasons we don't need to get into now, we have postponed the show to September. Right. And we will let you know the details as soon as we have them. Thank you for the support.

Now back to our storyteller. You know, I'm going through all this stuff with Gerald. I can't handle Rachel and him. I was there probably about three years when I was 18, almost 19. I went to visit my dad for the first time. Quick reminder, her father was a karate teacher that had been out of her life for years. Because the cult leader had told her parents that their marriage was, quote, spiritually invalid because they had married the wrong way.

I don't know why, because maybe it was in a Mormon temple. Probably, yeah. And these two, they obeyed. They split. And on top of it, they were told that they could never get married again because they had lost their mates. So like the good follower he was, her dad left her life.

And I just called him up one day. I found out what his phone number was and where he was, because he had a dojo in Spokane at the time. And I just said, hey, can I come and see you? And he said, sure. And I went over there, went to visit him for about a week. Had a good time, went hunting with him and actually met some of his friends after I got back. That was in the back of my mind that I didn't want

to be here anymore. The one thing that really stopped me or held me back and the reason I didn't do it sooner is because I had told everyone that I would take care of Rachel and I didn't want to just abandon that and I felt like I was doing something wrong if I quit doing that. Okay, so of course things didn't get any better and I finally decided I need to get out of here. So what I did was I went to stay with one of my mom's friends for a couple of weeks. Well, about a week after I had been there, Gerald showed up. And he'd asked me, he said, maybe we should just get

married so that you won't sin anymore. And I'm like, what? So anyway, at that point, I decided I'm going to go live with my dad. I'm not staying here. So I went to live with my dad. But unbeknownst to me, he got back into he was talking with Gerald, he was talking with Jacob, and Gerald had actually told him Zipporah is a whiner, she likes attention, and she's a liar, she's not a virgin, she's boy crazy, all these things. And my dad started treating me like I was just this awful person. I couldn't deal with it anymore. It was too much. Not too long after I had gotten there, Jacob wrote letters to some of the ex-members of the group. And my dad was one of them, asking them to come back because the only way that David was going to return is if we all had enough faith

to bring him back and we need more members to do that. And they convinced him that he needed to come back. You know, he was allowed to repent and yeah, so he came back probably more dedicated than he was to begin with. I mean, Tyler, this cult is like the cockroach of cults. It just won't die. Just when you think your dad is out, he comes back to life and he lays more spirit babies. But Sephora, she remained in Oregon. And why shouldn't she stay in the lovely state of Oregon, a state where you can't pump your own gas and there is no sales tax? When coffee says it's $4.99, by God, it's $4.99! And also, Oregon, in Portland specifically, it has the world's smallest park.

Of course it does. Mill Ends Park. And it's literally 24 inches across. It's like ordering a large pizza, but getting a little park delivered. Right, okay. But of course, no 24 inch park can be complete without a great backstory.

So in 1948, there's a columnist for the newspaper and he's looking out the window every day and he sees an empty hole in a street median and it's meant for a light pole that never got installed. So he plants some flowers in it and he dubs it apart. Don't forget his name. Dick Fagan. Yeah, great name. Dick Fagan of Portland, Oregon.

Right. But this story gets a little weirder because Fagan claimed that it was a leprechaun colony and that he spotted one and he went over and he caught it and he got a wish. He was granted a wish. This is true or not true. The story is true. The fable is true. He was granted a wish and the head leprechaun was named Patrick O'Toole. And Patrick granted him a wish. And what Fagan wished for was that it would be a city park and therefore it became a city park. So he built this park so that O'Toole would have a proper place to frolic. So he made a wish for the leprechaun.

How sweet. Yeah, isn't that nice? Selfless. A very selfless wishmaker. Yeah. And so for decades, Portland just kind of rolled with this park. It's still there. The park has hosted tiny parades, leprechaun weddings, major ferris wheels and even snail races.

I mean, this is just peak Portland. It's weird. It's whimsical. And it's a little middle fingered urban blandness. So you might see why Zipporah wanted to stay in Oregon, where she remained for about a year. Which is 12 years in Leprechaun time. I got married when I was 20. He was one of my dad's students. Right away, I got pregnant. And, yeah, it was not pleasant because we were living with his parents and it wasn't a great situation for sure.

And I didn't tell him that I was part of this group. I wasn't trying to hide it, but I didn't want to be part of it anymore, even though I still believed that all of it was true. So my husband felt like I had trapped him because he would have dropped me like a hot potato if he'd known. So I ended up being married to Tony for 10 years. He was more emotionally and mentally abusive, but there was some physical abuse too. I found out that he had been cheating on me the entire time he was cheating on me with many different people.

So I called my family. Mark ended up coming with his truck and I left him and went to live with my mom. I only had three kids. So found out I was pregnant after I got over there. And even being married to someone on the outside wasn't enough to shake her free. Obviously I didn't, I never stopped believing. I was starting to doubt a lot of it. Like I was still unsure. I didn't have enough information. As a matter of fact, there's one good thing that Tony was good for was he convinced me for the most part

that this whole thing was just, it was BS. It wasn't real. So they were all, they all kind of knew that I was skeptical of what was going on, but they wanted to convince me to come back and believe and started talking to me about all this stuff that I hadn't heard before. And I was really confused. And so I came back kind of full force into it. A cockroach with magnetic superpowers, apparently. If only Patrick O'Toole had gotten to her first. Right, she'd have her own park instead.

I found out I was pregnant there, had the baby there. This was her fourth child, all with Tony. And I decided that Tony deserved one more chance to be a good dad, to be a good husband. When we moved back into Tony's house that's in the middle of nowhere, I told him point blank, I said, so if you ever tell me that you want a divorce or that you don't want to be with me, that's it, we're over, it's the end. Well, within a few months, he was like,

so I think we really should get a divorce. I'm like, okay fine, guess that's what we're doing. As soon as we got divorced, you know, we were still living in the same house for a while, and I told him one day, I said, you know, I can't sleep with you anymore, and he said, oh yeah, and he threw me on the floor, forced me to have sex with him and said, If you don't do what I want you to do, I will take those kids away from you. So you better continue to do what I want you to do. So every time he showed up, he wasn't coming to see the kids. He was coming to screw me and leave, because that's pretty much what he did.

But I didn't want to do that anymore. That's not at all what I wanted to do. So once she got away from her abusive ex-husband, there was only one place she knew to go. Back to the cult. So we ended up moving to that town, a couple hours away, basically next door to Mark's house. And so we're living in our own place. So Rachel was still in the nursing home. She stayed there, but she was in her 50s when she died.

Now, Zipporah does claim that Rachel has died, but... Oh, boy. I smell a conspiracy, Tyler. It's that musk. It's an unmistakable musk. Because from everything I can find, Rachel changed her name, and she has remained hidden from the public eye.

She probably is still alive. So I can understand, after such a traumatic experience, and so many people out there grubbing to find interesting individuals to tell their cold story, us probably included, I would totally go into hiding as well. Tony isn't seeing the kids very often. So, uh, Mark and I start dating. As soon as we started dating, he got really weird. start dating. As soon as we started dating, he got really weird. It was almost like he thought we were going to get married. And I mean, I really, really didn't want to marry him because he was creepy. And he's like, no, you have to marry me because that's the

right thing. God's shown me this. And Jacob and Matthias agree with me. That's my dad, Mathias. When your inner compass has been dismantled by years of emotional control and shame, you don't really have a framework for what real healthy love should feel like. So when it comes to relationships, you don't know what to trust because you've never been allowed to trust yourself. I agreed to it because at the time I really thought that he knew more than me. I wasn't the inspired one. I wasn't the one who had this, you know, straight line connection to God and he did and so did our dads. So they must be right and I was wrong.

I struggled with that for a long time because I really didn't want to marry him. And he wanted to get married and start having sex right away. And I'm like, I can't do that. You're going to have to just give me some time, at least, to get used to this idea. What I In a Cult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. There are lots of things you could have listened to today. Yeah, like the 1962 smash song Monster Mash. Love that song.

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because she's bucking to be the next flow for Progressive. I would love it. It'd be great. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. So we ended up moving in with Mark, and my my dads were living at his house at the time too. But Mathias and Jacob had decided that my daughter was also evil because she was a very headstrong kid. So, that was unacceptable. And I ended up having to let her go and live with her dad.

I mean, this is a long line of people being gotten rid of because they're not compliant. My sister, my mom, and now my daughter. And I cried about it, but I thought, oh, maybe he's right. Oh, she's just swimming in a sea of abusers. It's very horrible. It's also sad. Tony came up to visit me and the kids. And of course, he was so angry that I was with Mark.

He got a lawyer and sent summons for me to go to court because he was trying to get full custody of my kids. Mark started saying okay we need to get married right away because now that you're being sued for custody it's gonna look better in the court system if we're married. And I'm like okay but you can't be forcing me to have sex with you. And he's like, no, no, we'll just get married in name only for now.

And then we'll work on the rest later. So we ended up going down to the courthouse to just get married. Couple days after that, he told me that I needed to move in to his room and it just progressed from there. He would constantly tell me, you need to submit to me, you need to be affectionate and submissive to me. It was to where he was forcing me to have sex. I had to just be quiet and just lay there and take it because that's what I was supposed

to do. I finally just, I went to him and I said, I really don't think that you should be forcing me. I don't think it's right for you to be forcing me to sleep with you because I think that's wrong. And he, to my surprise, actually agreed. And so he stopped forcing me to have sex with him. But he would still, like, bondle me. And I'd have to lay there and just accept it.

And in case you guys forgot, this cult was a doomsday one. Yeah, still waiting for that. And now it's a, well, you know, if we're married, we're one person. And that it's a, well, you know, if we're married, we're one person and that spiritual strength will come to us and it will help to progress everything forward. And by that time, our dads were convinced that they were the two witnesses, that they're going to be the ones here destroying everyone in the last days. And then David will come back. Oh, both our dads ended up dying within six months of each other, but they were going to have to come back to

life, be resurrected and then be the two witnesses. And the entire group just kept waiting for this doomsday to occur. This sword was constantly hanging over their heads. And so she stayed in her marriage to occur. His sword was constantly hanging over their heads. And so she stayed in her marriage to Mark. I want to say seven years in, I was sick and tired of him. I'd had it still going through this in my head, but starting to have more and more doubts. Starting to question him because he's not inspired by anything divine. And it's starting to piss me off. So anyway, a couple more years go by and it just got worse. I was tired of him constantly pushing me

to do what he wanted me to do. And I was just like, I can't do it. I couldn't be me and be with him. So I made a plan to get out. So I separated our bank accounts, lied to him about why I got another job so I could be making some money and squirreling it away. I had written a couple letters to my older kids because I wasn't sure where they stood and I couldn't take a chance that they were going to tell Mark that I was leaving. I told my youngest son about it. He knew what was going on. He was just as sick and tired

of him and knew how hard it had been on me. So he was like helping me pack. And I ended up leaving in the middle of the night when he was in bed and drove to my friend's house. My only man best friend. She was in her 70s and she was just a great lady. I slept underneath her tree in a tent for the whole summer. She called it the healing tree. We'll be right back. Oh, life is chaotic, isn't it? Especially when you host a podcast about cults. Truth.

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like you're being kind and really just to get the goss. Fill the tea. I'm not giving you tea today, Karen. You know what I'll give you though, Karen? Some euphoria because you could use it. If you don't know where to start, guys, take their product finder quiz. It'll match you with the perfect fit in under a minute. So if you're 21 and over, go to Via Hemp and use code INACULT for 15% off. That's a lot. That's a ton. Free shipping on orders over a hundred and for first-time customers a free gift of your choice. That's v-i-i-a-h-e-m-p dot com code INACULT. Guys, we love Via Hemp again. It's via hemp dot com. Use our code INACULT. Don't forget that, please. Right. Do it for your mind.

Use our code INACULT. Don't forget that, please. Right. Do it for your mind. Do it for your sleep. Do it for your podcast hosts who are totally relaxed right now on this couch. I am euphoric. So it's 2018, and Sephora, she finally leaves Mark, and thus, well, the cult.

I felt very alone because my kids all still were in the cults and I actually went through a period of time where I thought maybe they'd be better off without me because I'm a bad influence and I don't want to take them down the wrong path. So I was like, you know what, I have no idea what the truth is, but I want to find out. In my mind, I didn't really understand what a cult was. And to me, everything that I knew about cults, you know, like Jim Jones and Charlie Manson and all those, they were violent. In my group, we just stuck together and believed. So I started researching everything I could about religion, about cults, about any kind of spiritual anything.

I finally was just like, you know what actually finally clinched it? Was I listened to the book, Combating Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan. I was like, holy shit, I was in a cult. This is bullshit. And my whole entire life was caught up in this freaking group. Oh, man, Zappora is about the 100th guest on this show to mention Steve Hassan's book as the catalyst to waking up out of the haze of the cult. But I was really kind of lost there for a while because I felt like, OK, well, if this isn't real, this thing that I've believed my entire life, if this isn't real, then what the hell is? Like it could be anything. How

do I know? How am I ever going to know what's real? And it just, it kind of devastated me for a long time. I was completely lost. I went a little bit nuts. I started going to bars and drinking and kind of hanging out with the wrong people. I just, I lost it. I went down a dark path for a little while. And it took me a long time. It took me a few years to kind of slowly un-brainwash myself. And then I finally got a place and my youngest son called me and he's like, hey, can you come get me?

And I was like, absolutely. And then came the realization. Doomsday. That fateful event that Zipporah had lived her life towards wasn't actually coming. I was like, wow, hallelujah. We're not gonna all die. At least now I can live my life. Yay, oh, I'm old.

Wait a second. So yeah, I didn't get out until I was die. At least now I can live my life. Yay. Oh, I'm old. Wait a second. So yeah, I didn't get out until I was 44. And then I kind of went through this midlife crisis thing where I'm like, what am I going to do now? Most of my life has been wasted. Couldn't get a college degree. I educated myself. I was a very avid reader. I worked really hard at that. I got my GED. I did all those things. But I don't have anything that I can fall back on as a career or anything like that. So yeah, it was hard for me because I realized there wasn't a whole lot I could do now. I've kind of changed my mind since I don't think 44 is too old to start new. It's not. But it's

a rough road still because you, I mean, I had to figure out who the hell I am now. Like who am I? You know, I'm actually, you know, I think I'm a pretty great person. I'm certainly not perfect, but you know what? I don't need to be. Nobody's perfect. You're not going to be perfect in this life. That's not what we're here for. We're just here to learn and try and help other people.

Now there's that old saying, cockroaches would survive the apocalypse. Yeah, I think so would leprechauns. Absolutely. And so what was left of the little cult that could? Mark and Gerald are pretty much the only ones left. My kids are out. It wasn't very hard to convince them. My mom, she's still a part of it, yes. So I'm still working on that. She's 80 years old now, so...

And I know she's disappointed that I don't believe anymore, but she's... We just don't talk about it. And I've already talked to her, and I've told her that I forgive her for everything that she did to hurt me, and that I'm sorry for the stuff that she had to go through, and... Because it wasn't right. None of it was right because she did exactly what David told her to do. But fortunately, that's not the same for Sephora.

Nope. She has a new lease on life, a renewed vision for what is to come without the impending doomsday. Although life certainly feels like... Yeah, it does. for what is to come without the impending doomsday. Although life certainly feels like... Yeah, it does. It's coming. There are just endless possibilities. I can do whatever I want now. Nobody's telling me what I have to do. I don't have to feel guilty and ashamed of myself anymore. I'm fine. I'm good. I got married to the best guy ever, I guess,

third time's the charm. And we've been together for five years. And I'm pretty happy. I fully accept myself the way I am. You know, I'm not a bad person. That was pretty great to realize that. I'm not a bad person. I'm actually, I like myself. That was a nice discovery to find out that I actually like myself. And I don't really care what people think anymore. I really don't.

I believe there's a creator, but I don't think he cares all that much about what we're doing, you know, like if we get a tattoo or if we have sex with somebody not married. I don't think he cares that much. I really don't. And just be a good person. Don't hurt people. Don't try to control people. Try and be a good person. Try and make a difference in the world if we can. So after decades of control, shame, confusion, abuse, spiritual whiplash,

Sephora finally found something that had eluded her for so long. The right to believe she is good and kind and caring, a person worthy of healthy love, and we are so, so happy that she's exactly where she is today. Zipporah, thank you for your courage, your vulnerability, and your badass storytelling.

She's never told this story before and she brought it to us. And we are so grateful for bringing to light this amazing story. Another piece of twisted Utah folklore. I think you're a twisted piece of Utah folklore. A sash I will gladly wear. Thank you, Sephora. I really enjoyed talking to you. She's just a really just a genuinely sweet person.

So join us next week, guys, for another episode of this little show here called Was I in a cult? This show is hosted, produced, written, all the other things by me, Liz Seamus McJiggles. Seamus! Shamus McJiggles. By me, Shamus McJiggles Iacuzzi. Yes, Garden the Gold she is, and me, Tyler Finnegan O'Fiddle, me some. And Rob the Toasty, oh, malarkey. Hera. And Greta, Patti McLoot, Meesum. And Rob the Toasty, oh, Malarkey, Hera.

And Greta, Patti McLoot, Stromquist. May you all have a leprechaun-y day. Go get the gold, guys, and pray that this isn't the end of the world. We'll be back! We'll be back! We'll be back! Love you! We'll be back! We'll be back! from the waters of Lake Erie. It was raising flags. He said, there's no way that that fish should weigh 7.9 pounds. It's just not big enough.

To a nondescript office building in Richmond, Virginia, home to a $700 million fund for children with special needs. If there was a cliche list of how to blow money that you just stole very quickly, this guy did all of them. To the ski slopes of Salt Lake City, where a former Olympic snowboarder landed on the FBI's most wanted list.

Ryan James' wedding is one of those interesting narcos who have had two very successful careers, one legal and one illegal. We're pulling back the curtain on a fresh lineup of opportunists who stopped at nothing to get ahead. These are the stories of people who saw a loophole, a moment of weakness, a chance to get ahead and took it. I'm host Sarah James McLaughlin.

Join me for a new season of The Opportunist on May 19th. and took it. I'm host Sarah James McLaughlin. Join me for a new season of The Opportunist on May 19th. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts. Music This summer, Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies. Summer of Cinema is here. Feel the explosive action all summer long with movies like Gladiator, Mission Impossible, Beverly Hills Cop, Good Burger, and Transformers Dark of the Moon. Bring the action with you and stream for free from all your favorite devices.

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