Was I In A Cult? - The Cult of Fine Dining: “Yes, Chef! No, Chef! On It, Chef!”

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Fine dining is all about precision, artistry, and luxury on the plate—but behind those kitchen doors, the pressure, hierarchy, and chaos tell a very different story. This week, we sit down with Chef Amber Evans, who opens up about the unspoken rules of the industry, the reality of life inside a Michelin-starred kitchen, and the moment she realized she had become the very thing she once feared. Could it be that she had been in … a cult?  ________ Follow Chef Amber for mouth-watering content! @chefamberevans  Follow us for more culty content: @wasiinacult  Have you ever worked in a high-pressure, high-control environment that blurred the lines between passion and exploitation? Or maybe you’ve broken free from a system that demanded your total devotion? We’d love to hear your story—email us at [e-mail]  Want ad-free episodes? Support us on Patreon and help fund our de ep dives into the culty corners of everyday life—because sometimes, the things we accept as 'normal' deserve a second look.

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network or any of their respective affiliates. Coming out of the restaurants that I came out of, I felt so incredibly out of control. I had no ownership of my identity. Honestly, even introducing myself to y'all, I went to say, hey, I'm Chef Amber. But it's like, no, I'm just Amber.

I'm Amber and my job is a chef. Your job shouldn't be sending you to the hospital because you're having a massive panic attack. Your job shouldn't be the reason why you need to be on antidepressant medication. Your job shouldn't be the reason why you're willing to alter your appearance to be taken more seriously. But for me, that's what it was. And if that's not a cult, I don't know what is. Welcome everyone to Was I in a Cult?

I'm Liz Ayacuzzi. It's you again. It's me again. One of these days I'm going to wake up and there's going to be a different podcast host in front of me me but for now. Hope not. Yeah I know we all love Liz and we love her talking about cult. Me I'm Tyler Reesom.

And today's guest guys might make you hungry. For change. Oh boy. Sorry. Or at least for a Michelin star meal cooked by someone who isn't throwing frying pans across the kitchen. Now both Tyler and I being food snobs. Yeah, food snob.

I actually prefer the more snobby moniker of gastronome. Oh, I'm sure you actually do. Do you actually? Well, this gastronome over here is also a budding chef. I love cooking. I love food. I have all the kitchen gadgets. What's your favorite kitchen gadgets?

I have the waffle makers. I have the juicers. Favorite. I have honestly, I have all of them, but my favorite are probably just the La Croisette. La Croisette, everything they make is fantastic and they have silicone spat just the La Croisette. La Croisette, everything they make is fantastic and they have silicone spatulas. Yeah, we'll work on French throughout this episode. But there's silicone spatulas, fantastic. Okay.

You? That's a tough call. Right now I'm really enjoying my soft-boiled egg cracker. Highly recommend one of those if you don't have it. Also, my microplane grater. I tend to use that probably every day. Is it not the mandolin? You had to bring up the mandolin, didn't you, Tyler? Mandolin and I have had one too many altercations. Let's just say I came this close to losing a finger,

and I'm still not emotionally ready to forgive him. A poor craftsman blames his tools, Liz. Don't blame the creator. The thing load bombed me, Tyler. It load bombed me with those perfectly thin slices of radishes and cucumbers. And then it gaslit me into thinking I was safe. Next thing I knew, boom. My fingertips across the room.

All right, enough about us talking about useless things. There's plenty of time for that. Why, that's your forte. Plenty of time for that through this episode. This episode is a great example of what our show aims to expose, and that's the fact that cult tactics, they're not just reserved for fringe religions or doomsday groups. They show up in far more corners of life than we realize, even in fine dining kitchens.

Bum bum bum. So, for the rest of this episode, guys, I am chef to you, Tyler. Yes, chef. Oh, that does kind of feel good. Say it again. Yes, chef. I see the appeal. I kind of, I get it.

And what does that make me if you're the chef? My lowly kitchen fact man, my lowly kitchen grunt, responsible for fetching obscure food facts for me on command. Great. Let me go into the walk in and pull this one out. Did you know that many high end restaurants design their menus to subtly influence spending habits? I'm sure they do. Studies have shown that omitting dollar signs can lead diners to spend more, as it reduces the pain of paying. Additionally, using descriptive labels and foreign terms can enhance the perceived value

and sophistication of dishes, potentially justifying higher prices. Also, you know how some menu items have a little box around it? Yes. Those are the ones that have a higher markup for the restaurant. So they'll make more money off those particular items. You think you're going to a restaurant and you're making the choice, you're not, Liz. You're never making a choice. So with that everyone, let's please welcome today's amazing Yes. Yes, chef. Feels so good. My name is Amber Evans. Crucify. My name is Amber Evans. I am a 33-year-old chef, a LEGO enthusiast, and a recovering kitchen pirate.

Now, Amber is a listener to the show, and she came to us because... I was in a strange conundrum after listening to a few of the episodes because some of the folks, their cult was their job. And I'm like, no, that's work. That's just a toxic workplace. That's not a cult. But I started making these connections between what I have done for work for almost 15 years, being in the restaurant industry and cults.

And you know, I'm going down my checklist because us kitchen folk love checklists. I'm like, charismatic leaders, the chef. All right. Unquestioning faith. You don't question the chef. Isolation. I'm in this hot room for 12 to 15 hours a day,

six days a week. Abuse. No tolerance for questioning, illegal and dangerous behavior. That is America's kitchens. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's me. Like I've done that for like over a decade. This is my disclaimer. American chefs, you know what worldwide chefs, this is what we're not going to do. We're not not gonna come for me because I am not saying that restaurants and being a chef is a cult.

I am completely aware that this is not everybody's experience, but I am also very aware that this is a very common and shared trauma that we all downplay because we're conditioned to do so. So my main goal is to speak my piece and hopefully validate other people's feelings so they know, yes, chef, you were in a cult. Yes, chef, no, chef, on it, chef. I was born in Long Beach, raised in San Diego. So baby Amber was actually hard headed as fuck and did not listen

and absolutely needed to figure things out for herself. My dad is like the best ever and so is my mom. They're so wonderful and supportive. My dad's from the south, he's from Virginia. My mother, I think she was one of 14 or 16 kids, grew up in Compton in the 60s and 70s. They met on a blind date. My mom, she was a hot thing who was on Soul Train. Cue fun facts about Soul Train. Ah, Amber beat me to it. Cue facts. Did you hear that? I did.

I got to tell you this cute facts trend among our guests is something I certainly can get used to, Liz. Well then let's hear them. Are you going to disobey Chef Amber, Tyler? No, Chef. Soul Train facts. For those who don't know, Soul Train was a staple of American television. Soul Train premiered in 1971, the year I premiered, oddly enough, and played a key role in showcasing black music, culture, and fashion. And Soul Train featured performances from some of the greatest musicians of all time including James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Marvin Gaye, and many many more. With special guest stars the world famous Jackson 5. And since Amber's mom

was a dancer on Soul Train she likely worked the iconic Soul Train dance line. And if you haven't seen this, it's fantastic. This is where dancers formed two lines and individuals danced down the center. A pop culture phenomenon that's still replicated at parties and weddings today. And one that some should stop replicating. I'm looking at you, Phil, from accounting.

Yeah, nice try, Phil. You're going to twist an ankle. Sit down. The show ran for 35 years, going off the air in 2006, making it one of the longest running syndicated television shows in history. There you go, Amber. We totally took a nice diversion and did some soul train and television facts. Let's get back to some cooking, shall we? Back to Amber. I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian Baptist

home. I was going to church like four to five days a week. So I also grew up very black or white. There was no gray. You fall in line and you do as you're told and then you go to heaven. Like pretty simple. Like, all right, I'm game. I'm a team player. And life at home was good and smelled good. My dad was the cook of the family and he learned that from his mother who was a darling southern woman herself.

He comes from a household that food brings people together. So I spent a lot of time in the kitchen as a kid. I want to mix the cookie dough. I want to season the steaks. I want to learn how to cut the onions. And it was like a really fun bonding time for me and my dad. I did about a year and a half in community college and it wasn't until I took an amazing profound philosophy class, I learned how to listen to opinions that did not align with mine, understand them and still not agree

with them. That is the first time I got out of my black and white Christian thinking. And I'm not saying Christianity is bad. It is a wonderful spirituality. But just like we know on the show, some ideologies are not good. And also some are not informed. And in that class, I just had an epiphany one day. I'm like, I'm not supposed to be here. And I remember feeling like the room was getting smaller. I'm like, I'm not supposed to be in this kind of school. And so I told my mom, and I'm like, you know, I kind of want to take some time off and figure out what it is I want to do. My very black Christian mom is not trying

to hear that because she's like, no, you're either going to get a job or you're going to go to school because you're not living in my house for free. So I convinced my parents to let me go to the San Diego Culinary Institute, SDCI. And it was a little less than a year program. I learned so much. I challenged myself and I like really started to fall in love with food again. And I finished at the top of my class. I was 20. My endgame was always to be a private chef. And while she learned a great deal about cooking, one of the most important things she learned was at the end. One thing that we left school with, I remember the executive chef of the school

said, and I quote, remember, as you go out and get your first kitchen jobs, you don't know shit. And that was a yes chef. I get it. And this was the wisdom bestowed upon us. You do not question the chef. The chef is this mystical, untouchable creature. Now coincidentally, prior to editing this episode, I had just finished a great book entitled Dirt. And it's about journalist Bill Buford, who uprooted his family from New York

City to Lyon, France so that he could learn how to cook French cuisine. Sounds très fantastique. It was. The book is filled with food adventures, gastronomical history, and cooking tips, but also during his stay in France, the author was subjected to the harshness, caste system and long, tiring hours working in kitchens. And if you think chefs in America are put on a pedestal in France, well, they are deity. We'll put the book Dirt in the show notes. For everyone to ignore.

Before graduation, you have to do an externship. graduation you have to do an externship. They partner up with different restaurants around San Diego and you're able to work there and get hands-on experience. So I work at a restaurant and it was a really great restaurant. Oh my goodness, pork belly tacos, aloo tikka, potato cakes, larb salads, things I'd never seen before. This is cool. So I go there bright eyed and bushy tailed, and I am just feeling like a fish out of water,

and it's not a happy place. People aren't passionate. Everyone's just so angry and drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and just angry. And there was a lot of symbolism in the uniforms. Usually every cook had one color coat and the chef was the only one who had a different color coat to symbolize that this one is different. This one is important. Same with aprons. So you need to look the same. You need to do as you're told. You don't get

to look different until you've run things. I'm trying to make a good impression. And so the chef, he was an alcoholic and he would sit next to the exit door of the kitchen at the bar and drink all night. Just drink. He would be right there. The servers are bringing plates of food out. He would even grab things off the plate to taste and if it didn't taste right or if it didn't look right, he would stop the server, grab the plate, bring it into the kitchen, throw it onto the counter, cuss us out, and say, do it again and leave. My personhood was constantly picked apart daily, and that sucked to be so belittled

and broken down. And I saw him doing that to everyone else too. And to me, he's just a perfectionist. And he was also a brilliant chef. And he was just a tortured creative soul. That's all. And deep down, he really cared about us because we're a family.

There was always us excusing his behavior and not seeing what it really was. Drunken abuse, illegal treatment of employees. But also if you can't take it, there are multiple exits and you can leave. So we took it because we needed it. So I finally finished my externship and I don't even know if I want to be in the restaurant industry anymore. Because this sucked.

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It's called weaving ads into the show. Sort of. Yeah, that's very smart. Amber told me that it's quite common for restaurant kitchens to get up to 110 degrees. Hmm, so how would one combat the sweat? He asked knowingly. With Lume deodorant of course. Lume is clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours. Also known as the lunch and dinner shift. Seriously though I

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Yes chef! Still feels good. So every once in a while you might hear the voice of Rob, our wonderful sound mixer and producer, and he'll come on and say a few things, but we never really give him a chance to answer any questions. Rob, what's your favorite kitchen gadget? Aside from the cocktail shaker that I use to make us all white Russians,

I've been using the sous vide a lot lately. And- Love a sous vide. Cooking a been using the sous vide a lot lately. And- Love a sous vide. Cooking a lot of really low temperature chicken breast. It's fantastic. Nice, very nice. You gotta try some hard boiled eggs with that. Best hard boiled eggs.

If I could afford eggs, I would be into that. Yeah, exactly. The next time you can afford eggs. Use your sous vide to hard boil them. Well, we've learned something about you, Rob. Thank you for joining in. Now just shut up and find some sound effects. Now go back to being quiet.

Right. Right. Back to Amber. I finally was able to get a job at a very large hotel resort convention center. And oh my gosh, it was so different. But it also wasn't exactly what I wanted either because a lot of the people who worked

at this particular place were indeed old timers. We are still making cream of broccoli soup. We are still making club sandwiches. And I decided to go off and find another job. And that next job was fine dining on the pier in an upscale, casual, California coastal, emphasis on steak and seafood. So this kitchen that I would be going to,

that's the real deal. Whenever I think about my dream restaurant setup and how it worked, it was a well-oiled machine. I was learning my cook temps, I was making burgers, making salads, making sauces, shucking oysters, just doing all kinds of stuff on this lower level station, on pantry, which is traditionally cold app salads and stuff. This restaurant was bumping and it was exciting.

I'm getting the adrenaline. Am I going to make it? Am I going to keel over? You better drink your Gatorade and go to the bathroom before service because once we get going, you're better off peeing yourself than getting off the line and going to the bathroom. And I ended up staying here for about two years. And so I asked the sushi chef, I'm like, hey, you think I can take a swing on saute one of these days? And what does he say?

I don't think you're ready yet. But I'm now seeing that a lot of these people who started months after me are now on saute. And I'm like, that's weird, but okay. So I work harder. There was this constant like, here's the, but okay. So I work harder. There was this constant like, here's the carrot, maybe one of these days you can do it, but you gotta do everything we ask you to do.

And I'm noticing that a lot of the men got moved up. The case is, we need a strong man grilling steaks and not this short 4'11 chick. I'm like, you know what? I think I need a change. So I ended up applying to work at Glacier National Park in Montana. And I meet this guy and we got a chit chat.

I'm lonely, so we're chit chatting. We weren't officially together yet. I'm young and dumb. I'm like, oh, too bad I'm leaving San Diego in a couple weeks to go to Montana. You should come. And he's like, okay. And we go to Montana together because that sounds safe, right? So we get to Montana and I am just there in the wilderness. There's kind of this accelerated learning situation because we're only there for the summer or There's kind of this accelerated learning situation because we're only there for the summer

or for the season, whatever. So everyone needs to learn all of the stations. Now is my chance. I'm so excited and I get to move on to the hotline. I'm plating, I'm calling tickets, not quite working saute yet, but I'm just excited to be on the hot side of things. So the chef of this restaurant, he was your typical chef. He had tattoos, he had piercings,

he was rugged, kind of dirty, listened to metal. Everyone kind of worshiped the ground he walked on, but his food was okay. There was one day where he had made chicken confit and people were like, oh, you know, he's making his famous chicken confit. By the way, I'm being mocked. I'm being mocked. Actually, feel free to skip ahead, Liz. You can press that little button. By the way, chicken confit is one of those dishes that is pretty easy to make. And to guess, it seems like it's difficult. It's because of the word confit.

The French word is very intimidating to most people. Well, the French are more likely to use duck. This delicious specialty from the southwest of France. So how do you say it? Confit and then the canard. Canard being French for duck. Enjoy your next confit de canard. And they slow cook it in four cups of duck fat.

So yeah, it's good. Healthy. The French do not cut short on lard and butter. Nor should they. Nor should they. And they will outlive all of us. Correct. But chicken confit is also delicious if prepared well, of course. I take a bite. Tastes like nothing. There is zero seasoning.

And I was talking to my co-worker and I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like this doesn't taste good so the Chef I guess got wind of me talking about his not so good food and one day after Service he's like hey, do you got something to say to me? And I was like, No, he's like, because we can take this outside. And I'm like, not realizing that he was threatening to fight me. So I'm sitting there like a dummy. Yeah, you want to talk? Let me clean up my

station and we can talk. He took that as a threat. And so he kind of like lunges towards me. And one of the guys who's a lot bigger than both of us is like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, oh, you want to, what? I'm shook. And no one was like, hey, don't fight girls. No one was like, hey dude, stop because they're all his friend.

So I am now getting treated super strange. I'm stuck with my co-workers not being nice to me anymore. The chef asked me, he's like, hey, we need a little help in the dish pit. And I was sent there for the remainder of the season to work in dish pit. I refused to quit due to poor treatment because I had to prove how hardened I was. I survived Glacier National Park a whole summer. Me and said boyfriend lasted. He was the worst by the way, but we'll get to that. And now we're like, I'm down. So I look up again, California employee housing and Mammoth Lakes, California pops up, Mammoth Mountain. A few fun facts about Mammoth Lakes. Once again, I am cued.

Enter stage left. But you know, Liz, I'm going to make this a scene, not a monologue. Oh, Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo? It is I in Mammoth Lakes. Go ahead, I'm allowing you to do a fact or two. Did you know, actually, Mammoth Lakes are located in California's Sierra National Forest. The Mammoth Mountain is actually a dormant volcano and a world-renowned destination for activities such as skiing, snowboarding and mountain biking.

I just said you could read facts. I didn't say you could mock me while it's doing it. How can I read a fact and not do it as Tyler? Ancient fossils of mammoths and other Ice Age creatures have been found in the area, which is how Mammoth Lakes got its name. Actually, the actor John Wayne was once the mayor of the adjoining community of Pumpkin Town and hikers now claim they see his ghost sauntering through various forests searching for food.

I made that up Liz. You did? You just gave me the dumbest line. I just gave you a bullshit line and you just read it like it was real. That's the problem with giving people who don't read facts, facts. They don't fact check it. You've learned your lesson, Liz. I was going to say, how could they tell that he was looking for food?

I just wanted to say lines perfectly like Tyler. That's what you get when you ask too much. Well, here's the deal. How scary is that? I saw that line so well, that's how well you sell facts. Pumpkin Town, Liz. Yeah, it's in the foothills right below Mammoth. Yeah, I think I went there as a kid.

Alright, speaking of Mammoth. No, I'm pretty sure I have a picture with a cardboard John Wayne cutout from Pumpkin Town. I definitely went there. I get a really awesome job at a great hotel that does breakfast, lunch and dinner and happy hour. And it was right on the mountain. I had finally met a chef who was so talented, nice, great food and was willing to teach me. Yes, he was rough around the edges. But remember, I love a lovable cremigant.

I feel like I am the SpongeBob to their Squidward. The only mistake I ever made was wasting my life at the Krusty Krab. But a visit to the Krusty Krab makes everyone happy. And what could be better than serving up smiles? Being dead or anything else? So I'm working in Mammoth. That's where I kind of got to work saute.

I got to work grill as season in. So I'm thinking I'm ready to like run something now. So I talked to my boss. I'm like, I would love to be like a kitchen manager or sous chef. What does he tell me? I'm not ready yet. Are you catching on yet? You need to have prior experience in order to be one of our kitchen managers or our sous chefs. So what do I do?

I go across the country once again to Virginia's Vermont to work at a small country club. And I got a job as a sous chef there. This is my first blind-dining restaurant. I got tweezers in my pocket. This is so exciting. Tweezers so she can delicately place a single strategically angled micro cilantro leaf. So I get my experience. I'm still with that guy. Our relationship isn't very good. It's quite toxic, but still we move back to Mammoth and I come back and I'm like, hey, I was a sous chef. I did what you asked me to do.

And that's when they say, hey, we don't actually have it in the budget. We can give you the title, but we just can't give you the money. My loyalties are with this restaurant. I will work harder for less money. and so I did that for years. My food's gonna speak for itself and I guess the chef too is gonna take responsibility but that's fine because I'm a team player and this is a family and what do families

do they support one another and this is me supporting my family who has been there for me thick and thin especially when I went through my breakup with my boyfriend at the time who dumped me via Skype while he was in Peru. What a dick. Yeah, eff that dude, right? You're lost, bro. Who uses Skype anyways? You broke up with the chef! You, my friend, are the chef's kiss of idiots. Yeah, and sometimes you need to lose the best thing that ever happened to you to realize no one will ever satiate you the same way again. You ditched a Michelin star woman for a lukewarm, unsalted life and that's a choice you have to live with. Don't

know why we're going so hard on your ex here, Amber, but I'm assuming he deserved it. I'm guessing he did. Right. Speaking of right. We'll be right back. You know, I don't think we celebrate enough the fact that THC and gummies can be sent directly to our front door. Our parents would call us spoiled. You know, in my day, I had to bike across town

and wait outside my cousin Kendall's house just to get a dime bag full of seeds and stems. I like just a dime bag. Time certainly have changed because now you can get a big old box of Viagummies. Viaguy's, we love this brand. They are changing the game in natural wellness. They combine high quality hemp derived ingredients

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And you don't have to meet in some sketchy parking lot or get some weird doctors known because Viya legally ships nationwide, discreetly straight to your door. So THC, what Viya has in store for you. Nice, Tyler. That's not nice. Don't reward that. So if you're 21 and over, please head to viahemp.com, use our code ANACULT to receive 50% off free shipping on all orders over $100.

And if you're new to VIA, well, get a free gift of your choice. That's viiahemp.com, use our code INACULT at checkout. After you purchase, they're going to ask you guys, where did you hear about us? So please tell them it was us. Support show tell them we sent you and hansher every day with fire all right listeners we've said it before quints we'll say it over and over again quints quints quints quints quints get some luxury items at quints but apparently you weren't listening so instead of wearing an affordable silk blouse, you're sitting there in a worn down Backstreet Boys t-shirt.

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You know what, and they have great men's items. Now I'm looking at you, Fred. Look at your shorts, Fred. Don't you want to? It's not 1998 anymore, Fred. Even a dumbass like Tyler puts on a nice pair of Quince Chino Field Pants, right? Yeah, and even a hoebag like Liz can sport an affordable chiffon cropped smocked blouse. So don't be like Becky or Fred.

Or Tyler before Quince. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Go to quince.com slash cult for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q u i n c e.com slash colt to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash colt. A true crime podcast. It got me upset because this is someone's kid. And someone knows she's gone. That takes a different approach.

It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Focusing on the communities affected by life-shattering crimes. It made news throughout the entire region that these two people had been shot while they slept in such a safe community. To give a new perspective on the devastation crimes can cause. It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Featuring cases from quiet towns to bustling cities and interviewing the people closest to the case.

My first thought was that it's an unusual location for us to have a homicide. Listen to the True Crime podcast, City Confidential, and step beyond the yellow tape to learn just how far a crime can reach. There are certain cases in the history of Boston that I think sort of define the city. I think this is one of them. New episodes of the City Confidential podcast are available every Thursday, available wherever you get your podcasts. But yeah, so I'm going to this breakup and it's rough. And I'm not always the best about talking about my feelings because I'm a rough and

tough kitchen pirate. And conversations that are had in a kitchen aren't about your well-being. It's usually about some way you've abused yourself and still shown up to work. The conversations could be, oh man, I was up throwing up till 4 a.m. and I knew I had to get to work. So, I just drank throwing up till 4 a.m. and I knew I had to get to work, so I just drank some coffee and had a cigarette and came out. Or, oh, you know, I had walking ammonia

and I still went to work, so why aren't you going to work? And you don't wanna be that person who tears apart the team by staying home because you're throwing up. You may start seeing your schedule dwindle down because you're now not reliable. So I never called off.

That's the kind of care that our chefs, our leaders have for us. We are a commodity. And if you don't want to be replaced, you need to fall in line. What's that smell, Tyler? That's a fresh batch of cult soup right there. Mmm.

I smell time and abuse. I was in Mammoth for a total of six years. I'm all six years and two boyfriends and three cats. But I met another guy who was a kitchen person. He was cute and he was dangerous and chaotic and toxic, but we're gonna make this work. Spoiler did not work. It was all bad and it blew up and it was horrible.

Now I'm devastated and alone again. So what do I do? I throw myself even deeper into work. I was not taking care of myself I was working almost seven days a week 14 hours a day That's all I wanted to do because I didn't have anything else I am so devoted to this craft that I don't care. I Was a kitchen person.

That is how I can sum up who I was. I had no work-life balance. I had nothing. I didn't have a hobby. I had friends that I worked with, but I didn't have any outside friends. But that's okay, because I was willing to sacrifice so much,

because all I wanted in the world was to be a chef. I wanted to be a chef so badly. I had zero intentions on having children. Why? Because female chefs don't have children. There's no maternity leave in a kitchen. And also what am I going to look like pregnant in a kitchen? They're not going to take me seriously.

Doing this is such a prideful thing. And that's why a lot of the terminology we use is very prison and military-esque. We were in the trenches. I've done my time and I've done a hard time for this. And that's just normal terminology. People that work daytime shifts or are out and about during the day, those are day walkers. We don't fit in with them. We are nighttime people. We don't know how to behave in public places. We don't know how to not cause a ruckus because we are rough and tough

kitchen people. And that's just us. We are, we're pirates, you know, this rag-tag team of rough people who have done their time in some way, shape, or form. So what are your thoughts, listeners? Cutes or pacutes? Cutes or not cute? While I was in Mammoth, finally, I was able to move to the fine dining restaurant and there was this magical moment. The day after I did my tasting, it was very impressive and they said, you got the job. You're the sous chef. I finally made it. I finally made it where the boys are.

I got to the kitchen the next day and I hooked my phone up to the speaker and I blasted This is a Man's World by James Brown. And it was just this magical moment. Here I am, a short girl here to ruin your little manhood. You know, like I'm the boss. All of my blood, sweat, tears, depression, panic attacks, anxiety, trips to the hospital because I was freaking out. It was worth it. It was so worth it. All of the things that they said that I would get the glory. I got it. It's real. So I doubled down because they were right. Chef was right. And I became a big old angry bitch.

Just the worst. Just totally tearing into people, humiliating people in front of their coworkers. And that was just how things work. All fine dining chefs kind of do that. So of course I'm gonna be like them throwing a pan across a room gets your point across. So I'm gonna do that. Yelling at someone telling them that I understand you're working hard but it's not hard enough maybe this isn't for you. I know that that really fucks with people because it fucked with me.

I would work these boys so hard into the ground. I wanted them to feel so small. And I would do really messed up things where, you know, keep them feeling weird and insecure and they'll do everything you want. They're scared. Good, you should be. Because that's how we do good work. Right, Chef? Was I becoming the cult leader? Kind

of, I guess. Did it blow up in my face? Yes, but that's later on down the line. We'll be right back. Nous revenons, tout de suite. So up until now, Amber's love life hasn't quite been a point. Which is French for to the point, which means cooked to the ideal degree of doneness. It's a term used in professional kitchens. And part of that is because of her vacationing in Peru, Skype breakup, fuck boy, but I digress. While I was in Mammoth, I met another guy, met him on Tinder.

He wasn't dangerous like my other bad boy. He was very boring. And he was skeptical about my schedule. And the scheduling was just crazy. I feel like we only saw each other at nighttime. But we were still able to build this really awesome relationship, the best relationship I've ever had in my life. So in Mammoth, COVID hits. And it was probably the most ideal place to be during COVID. And that was the first time in like 11 years that I had ever had time off work. Ever.

What does one do with months of free time? I started gardening and I was like touching dirt and spending time with nature and my boyfriend is building things out of wood and we're drinking martinis at 9am and that is when I realized I feel like a chunk of me is missing. Aren't I supposed to have things I like? This is so strange but I'm just gonna keep planting these. And I did. I planted flowers. It was great. Things start getting serious with this guy. And we saved up together.

And they picked up and moved to sunny Palm Springs, California, a mecca for dining. Give it to us, Tyler. Indeed it is. And a wonderful town. In fact, in 2022, the tourism and hospitality industry generated a record $8.7 billion in total economic impact for the Palm Springs region, dining being a significant contributor. Actually, eight Palm Springs restaurants have been recognized in the Michelin Guide. It also has 50,000 swimming pools, which means it has more pools per capita than anywhere else in the country. The actor Bob Hope was once the mayor.

I'm gonna keep going. Yes, Liz, finish. Tyra, I'm not reading anymore of your dumb facts. I hate your facts. Continue. Actor Bob Hope was once- Once mayor and his ghost is often seen wandering the golf courses in search of iced tea. Thank you for that non-truth, Tyler.

Welcome to Fact Town, Liz, which is not as gay as Palm Springs because Palm Springs is known as the gayest city in America. It's estimated that 30 to 50% of residents identify as LGBTQ, including my fantastic little brother and his fantastic friends. They have a great time out there. Does he live there? He does. Yeah.

I went and visited. My film was in the Palm Springs Film Festival about a month ago. And I went and visited and I went to his, he has a condo and looking out the back was a pool and sitting on the pool were just old people and gay people. It's just, it looked fantastic. It was fantastic. This is just a big dumb story

so Tyler can plug that he had a movie and a film festival. You're starting to read me too well. You know, Liz, I gotta get my validation somewhere. So Palm Springs, that's where we're going. A new restaurant opens and I'm able to get a job there. And it's a brand new restaurant. It is very fine dining, very upscale. The chef is like the golden boy of the desert.

And I'm the sous chef of this place now. And I'm helping to build this menu. They're winning Michelin stars. The owners are love bombing me. Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. We love you. These owners, they are extremely possessive in creating this them versus us mentality restaurant wide.

We are the best. They are not. Don't become a they. Be a us because we're family. And if you choose to go anywhere else, kiss your family goodbye. You know, the place is open, everything's great. And the owner jokingly suggests we all get tattoos

owner jokingly suggest we all get tattoos for the restaurant of our slogan, which is XOXO. Me, I'm down because I'm a team player, damn it. And if everyone else is going to get a tattoo, I'm going to get a tattoo. At first, I thought that was just really cool. And then it wasn't until a coworker was like, isn't it weird that they all got brandings basically and now they all have this mark of this place on them forever? Like that's not weird to you. And of course that's not weird to me because I'm devoted to the cause. By this point, that really boring guy that I was dating is now my husband. We got married at the courthouse, and I remember that I was barely able to take that day off. So, months go by, the holiday season kicks in, and I am now at one of the lowest points

that I have ever been in my culinary career. And I'm just always so high-strung. I'm having horrible anxiety attacks. I don't have many people to talk to. And I am just running on fumes. My marriage is a little rocky. I am rocky. Everything is rocky.

I didn't work this hard to be a monster. And that is exactly who I am right now and I don't want that. I know that this isn't me. This isn't how I want to be. I can't be here anymore. But like, where else am I going to go? Because the owners have made sure to tell us that this is the prime location that anyone would want to work at.

And so I was like, I will get through it. We'll be fine. Come January. We're good to go. January 12th rolls around. I was so sick. I can't not be at work. I have to be there. So I'm sick. I shovel into work. I get called into the office. So I'm like, Hey, guys, am I getting a raise? And he's like, not exactly. We've decided to terminate your employment. And I remember chuckling because I didn't think he was serious. I'm like, what? And then that's when the GM chimes in and says, we've just gotten too many complaints from both front and back of house from you. And I've never been fired before. So this is now turning into a very traumatic event.

I was completely lost. I had no schedule. I had no one to report to. I lost my family and I let my husband down. So I'm thinking, of course, he's amazing and perfect and supportive and is like, you are not letting anybody down. It was time for you to leave that place. Hear that, Mr. Breakup on Skype?

That's a supportive partner, okay? Take notes, buddy. So with a taste of her firing still on her tongue, supportive partner, okay? Take notes, buddy. So with a taste of her firing still on her tongue, she gets another job in the Palm Springs area. Is still a restaurant. It's a breakfast joint, farm to table. I become the executive sous chef of that spot.

Now my day starts at 6 a.m. It ends around three, four. I'm a day walker now. I'm able to make it to friends' events and gatherings. I get to eat dinner with my husband, not over a trash can. He cooks at home and he is great. And then it all starts to dawn on her. I had a slight panic attack the first time we went out for dinner on a Friday night

because I am now on the other side of the coin. I'm supposed to be back there. I'm supposed to be with my kitchen crew, my family. I don't belong out here at the table. This is not where I'm supposed to be. The people who really understand me are behind that door, but I've also just been told that I don't belong there either. So I have like a huge identity crisis. I felt disposed of and thrown away. I was so lost. My anxiety picked up. My depression picked up. I get a therapist and it's rough because this is the first time I'm able to talk about like my identity crisis and talk about work and really realize how toxic some of the work environments I've been in and how conditioned I've been. And between medication and therapy,

I was able to come out of this depression. And eventually life turns a corner. Just so you know, in professional kitchens, chefs and kitchen staff often yell corner to alert others that they are turning a corner. Corner. Especially when carrying hot pans, sharp knives,

or heavy trays. I have now, at this point, been out of the restaurant scene for about a year and a half. I am a private chef working mostly in luxury short-term rentals. My client base is everything from celebrity rappers to rich families. By this time I feel whole. The fitness coach and nutritionist that I'm working with they specifically work with chefs because they understand the lifestyle, they

understand the mental shit that we deal with. I have learned that I can still be a passionate chef and not give my all to it. I don't have to give all of me. I am just a private chef and I am living my best life. I have a work-life balance and it's going real great. And then one fine day, I get this DM and they're like, hey, I am a casting agent and I'm

currently casting for a very popular cooking competition. We'll call it Purgatory Restaurant, season 23. And we are looking at your Instagram and we'd love to interview you. Are you interested? I have never seen this show before. I don't know what to expect. I know the chef is known for yelling and screaming and possibly calling people idiot sandwiches. So Amber flies out to the filming area, which is in Connecticut.

She gets interviewed and finds herself cast on the show. Get it, Amber. We're on set. And I'm back in a kitchen. I am back on a line. I am back in a brigade. There's pots boiling. There's friers going.

There's oven fans going. There's a chef screaming at me. There's the pressure. There's the adrenaline. I freeze. I haven't had this in a very long time. The whole point of this show is to see who's going to crack. So this show, you are not taken care of in a way

that promotes you to do your best. They want you to be hungry. They want you to be dehydrated. They want you to be irritated. They want you to be dehydrated. They want you to be irritated. They want you to be uncomfortable and tired because that makes good TV. This is something that a lot of chefs are used to. But it's been so long for me that I am not used to this. I have been working in luxury kitchens for a year and a half. I'm like a little crunchy granola private chef now, not a monster pounding, Marlboro red 100 smoking person anymore. And all of those

old feelings were coming back. The sacrifice for the greater good feeling had just been stagnant and was now boom out in the front, we're back. I did not like that. I did not like that at all. It really caught me off guard and seeing all of my fellow chefs experiencing this and just okay with it. And I saw myself in them and knew I gotta go. I gotta go. This

is not for me. I had a very early exit from Purgatory Restaurant, but I left feeling that I had let my husband down, my family and friends back home were rooting for me, and that feeling of disappointing the chef was there again. It wasn't until I called my husband, who was hanging out with our friends, to tell him, he was like, oh, well, I'm so really proud of you. You were on a show.

That's so exciting. And he's like, hey guys, Amber's coming home again. And I just hear people cheering for me and, and saying all these nice things. And I'm like, so I'm not an idiot sandwich? Like this is, this is great. I thought I was going to get kicked while I was down because I'm just so used to that. And that was really when I was like, I can't for my health, go back to the restaurant setting. It is not my ministry anymore. And that whole thing of like, oh, you know, some people weren't built for the kitchen. I wasn't built for the kitchen. I was built to have a long, happy,

healthy life. So I am now okay and have made peace with not being built for the kitchen. That is a okay with me. I am just a private chef. Yes, chef, you are. And no, you're not just a private chef. You're a damn fine one. Right, Tyler? Yes, chef. Feels good. I mean, it still feels good. Yes, chef. Can we carry this over into our next episode?

Yes, chef. Mmm, still feels good. I am in therapy. I'm taking my meds. I'm taking my vitamins. I'm not drinking as much as I used to. I got a work-life balance. I go out for dinner without

feeling guilty. I have friends. I have hobbies. I do breath work. I do all of that stuff to take care of me because I realized that once I wasn't of use to these kitchens anymore, I indeed was disposable. But I had to be indispensable to myself. And that's what's important. Being a chef isn't just about following a recipe. It's about trial and error, burning the crust, over-salting the broth, toughening the meat before learning to tenderize it. At some point you realize cooking isn't about suffering. It's about balance. Knowing when to add more salt and when to let the flavors speak for themselves. When to rest the dough instead of overwork it. Amber spent years in kitchens where fire wasn't just under the pan, but all around her. She burned, she blistered, she hardened until she saw the truth.

A dish can't shine if it's been scorched beyond recognition, and a chef is only as good as the care they put into themselves. So she changed the recipe. She turned down the flame. She plated her own life with ingredients she chose, at a pace that let her savor every bite. Because in the end, cooking isn't about how much you endure. It's about what you create. And with that, Amber has one more thing to say. So now I'm nice if any of the people I was mean to is listening to this. I'm sorry guys, I was going through it.

And apologies and hit me up if you wanna scream at me. Thank you Amber, thank you so much. We adored, loved, loved, loved having you on the show. When I'm in Palm Springs next, I must somehow get your food in my belly It's figurative right now. It's literal I'm gonna eat I literally want her food inside of me Amber has a lovely Instagram with some beautiful pictures of her food. She is a delight we will share her Instagram in the show notes.

Before we go, I have one more thing to say. Why are we supporting that previously referenced show? I mean, there are 23 seasons of a loud mouth losing his temper, yelling, berating, and belittling his employees as though it's just a normal day at work. I hear it's like an act that he's a nice guy. That's even worse then, because he's just putting on a facade to be a jerk, showing that you need to be a jerk in order to get good performance out of your employees. And it's part of the toxic mentality of America's workforce politics.

I'll take more of that great British bake off, please. I like cakes. Calm classic cakes. That's our show everybody. Thank you. Next week it's going to get extraterrestrial up in here guys. And he explained that water is a natural conductor of electricity and because he's a holy guide of the Raelians, which is their priests, he was going to dip

his hands in the water and put his hands on each of our heads to transmit our DNA information to the Elohim mothership. And the Elohim are the aliens who created us and then they split. Big thank you to our newest Patreon members. If you want ad-free episodes of this show, join our membership. In fact, I sent some nice goodies to our newest Patreon members, as I promised I would last week. So it really helps us support this show. You have no idea. Thank you. Really thank you.

What's In a Cult is written, hosted and produced by me, Chef Cousy. Yes Chef. And me, the sous chef, Meesum. Sound design and edit by the kitchen pirate, Rob Berra. And our assistant editor is the line cook, Greta Stromquist. And of course, our executive producer, the general manager of this sinking ship, Mr. Stephen Labrum. Mr. Stephen Labrum.

Until next week, au revoir. We are looking at how to say goodbye in French. In France, we say it as, oh, that's the first word, A-U comes down to the sound O. Au revoir. Au revoir. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. crime drama streaming for free.