Was I In A Cult? - The Cult of My Mafia Dad: “An Offer He Couldn’t Refuse”

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

A limo to Atlantic City. Pizzerias with back rooms. Garbage bags vanishing across boroughs.Comedian Barry Rothbart grew up believing his dad didn’t just live large—he made life larger. Then the tapes surfaced.This isn’t a mob story. It’s what happens when your identity is forged from someone else’s legend—only to discover the legend was a lie. As Barry unravels the mythology, his father’s world curdles into something darker… and uncomfortably familiar to our show.For the full, uncut conversation, hop over to our Patreon.____FOLLOW US for more culty content and behind-the-scenes chaos:Instagram & TikTok → @wasiinacultSUPPORT THE SHOW:Barry’s dad kept his money in stacks above the bed. We prefer Patreon. If this episode hit you—or made you think twice about charisma, cons, or cult leaders—share it and then leave a review (but take the cannoli). A huge thank you to our Patreon members—your support keeps us making episodes like this one. Want ad-free shows & exclusive extras? → Join our Patreon.CHECK OUT BARRY:Barry Rothbart’s investigative series Searching for Allan Rothbart is exclusively on Audible. It’s equal parts mob tale, family reckoning, and cult-like indoctrination story. Don’t miss it.You can also follow Barry on social media → @barryrothbartHAVE A CULTY STORY? We wanna hear it.Email us: [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. Liz Yacuzzi. What? Elizabeth Yacuzzi. Yes. That's how you pronounce my name the correct way. If you were in Italy, that's how you would say my name, because my dad is from Sicily. Yeah.

They changed it. When he moved here, none of his teachers could say Yacuzzi, so they made it phonetic. I-A-C-U-Z-I-Y-A-Y-A-A-C-Y-A-A-C-Y-A-A-C-Y-A-C-Y-A-C-U-S-Y. Yac-C-C-C-C-E. Yac-C-C-C-C-E, okay. And your dad, because he's from Sicily, he's obviously in the mob. Raised me in the mob. No.

I've met your father. He's not in the mob. No, he's not a mob. He is an artist, my father. He's a graphic designer by trade. And now he just sits in his man cave in his basement and writes poem books with matching photos that he takes. He's a photographer, lifelong photographer. His recent book was called Pornography.

And it's really great. And you can get it on, I think, zazzle.com. So that's my dad. I'm learning a lot more about you. Through this. But you've met my dad. What's your impression on my father? I think your dad would be in the mob if the mob needed a nice logo.

I think that's, I've met your dad and he probably would design a great logo for the East Coast Mafia. He really would. Yeah, but that's about it. He could help the rebrand. Yeah. Which, let's be honest, it's due for a rebrand, I mean. It totally is. Get into the 21st century mafia.

My father was quite different than the father of our guest today. Right, because our guest today, his father was actually in the mob. Apparently. Right. And his name is Barry Rothbard. He's a comedian. He's not actually Italian, but he has a remarkable podcast out right now. His Papa was in the mafia.

Which means that we will have to be subjected to Liz doing an Italian accent throughout the course of this episode. What's the matter you? To which I apologize to all. Don't spare my life, crucify. We're live. Are we speeding? We are speeding. Cool.

All right. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Should we deal with validating my parking now? Yeah. We often do Zoom interviews, but it's nice to get to sit in front of the person with whom we are going to make cry. But you live here.

Oh, yeah. But I live in Pasadena. That's where my friend just moved in every day. Why don't you live here? The kids are riding their bikes at 6 o'clock every night. It's a cult. It's Pasadena cult. So introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Barry Rothbart. I'm a comedian, actor, raconteur, rebel rouser, podcaster, producer, father, man. You have a podcast. Yes, I have a podcast.

Explain why you were. wanted to do this podcast and a little bit about what it is. It's about the fact that when I was 14 years old, my dad got arrested and I found out that he was doing illegal stuff and working with the mafia. And then I ended up working with him in the mafia. And before that, I had thought he was John Bon Jovi's manager because he told me that for many years, which is such a crazy lie. Such a creative lie. Yeah. And also I would be like, can I get tickets to Bon Jovi concerts? And he'd be like, yeah. And then I would be like, did you get him? He's like, no, I couldn't. There were these tapes, these deathbed tapes that he made. I actually had to make them because I knew his story

was so crazy and I never listened to them. And then during the pandemic, I was like, I think this is a good opportunity to also listen to them. This is a moment from Barry's podcast. We will play a few of these moments throughout the episode. I knew I needed to investigate deeper. So I decided to finally do the one thing I hadn't wanted to do all these years, the thing that was sitting right under my bed in the guest room. My dad, on the tapes.

The ones he'd recorded when he was dying, the ones I'd never listened to. So I pulled them out, dusted them off, and found an old cassette player. All right. Let's go all the way back. Remember rewinding?

That was a thing. So I'm really nervous. I feel nervous. I don't know really why. It feels kind of like things are going to change for me. I'm going to do it. Yeah. I guess I'm just going to listen.

Just going to do it. I am born. I'm born on a mason. Check in 1947, Brooklyn Hospital, Queens Highway in Brooklyn. I came plopping out at seven pounds, 14 ounces. And what I ended up hearing was nothing like what I thought I'd hear. I want to say this real quick about Barry's podcast, which I love. He has captured the art of, and this is when things took a new turn.

Right, and then it ends. And then I discovered something else. That's next time on searching for Alan Rothbart. It's so good. That's a compliment, Barry. I mean, we do it on this show too. A little bit. Not as much, though.

Not as much. No. He's like, he's like, and then the phone call came in that would change the course of the trajectory of my life as I knew it forever. Yeah. That's next time on searching for Alan Rothbart.

I've decided after listening to it that I'm going to go to dinner with people and then start a story and then just go and then things really turned interesting and then get up and go to the bathroom. Yeah, and just make them wait until I come back. Yeah, I was like, I want to do this as a serialized investigation, but it just kept snowballing into like, oh my God, I'm finding out that my whole life as a kid was a lie and it kept going and going. And I was like, this is podcast gold. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Queens in Forest Hills, New York, in a big apartment building called Parker Towers on Queens Boulevard. And when I was four or five, I have like a few memories of things being just fucking awesome. I have like a vivid memory of getting in a limo downstairs at our apartment building, going to Atlantic City.

My dad, like handing people cash as we walked in. Like, I don't even know if they worked there. Mom was there at the time. mom was there. It was great. She was like in like what stilettos? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tight sequence. She was hot. Yeah. Yeah. It's everything you want out of this. My dad was like slick back hair and like suit and like the whole thing, at least in my memory. And I just remember excitement, even at that young age. And I was like, my family's together. This is great. And then something big happens. And suddenly my dad wasn't around as much anymore. My mom was

depressed and our money clearly dipped. My parents got divorced. We had to move and everything got a little weird. And then there's a point in my childhood where my mom is doing her thing, dating, remarrying. But my dad was always transient. And at that time, I was like, you know, I'm like a different hotel every week. You know, this is fucking great. There's like ice I can get for free in the hallways. Like, it was like amazing. I was like going to hotels and living there. Did your mom work? My mom was in and out of jobs. Her finances were never, ever stable.

My dad's weren't either, but he painted a much sunnier picture than my mom. But my mom was very unstable in her moods. But she was definitely the person who made sure I had clothes and, you know, all that stuff. But my dad was like the fun. I get to like leave this boring, unstable thing and I could go with my dad. And everything was like a movie. It was like exciting. So your parents, they're both Italian.

Jewish. Both Jewish. First of all, the cultural part is like, Jews and Italians, at least where I grew up in New York, have a special bond. There's like a strange similarity. Visually, they age the same way where just every part of them gets droopy. And the women are both very loud. It's a very loud culture, arguing jewelry, the chains. So there's a lot of cultural similarities. But my dad, yeah, he was friends with Italians.

And Barry's father named Alan Rothbart, well, he fit right in. Loud, brash, always scheming. He carried himself like a character straight out of Goodfellas. Love me some Goodfellas. I've probably seen that movie 12 times in my life. He grew up in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, which is like Italian Jewish. And then he moved to Bayside Queens, which is also Italian Jewish. You know, it is like the first act of a Scorsese movie in a lot of ways where he like, you know, he's playing stick ball with

these kids who were like maybe committing crimes and then he like had this scheme apparently when he was 12 where he would be able to bet on horse races at Aqueduct or whatever Belmont, whatever the New York track was. But he was like able to like fix horse races when he was a kid. And this is like the 50s, 60s. And I'm like, just what kids did. I don't know. It's like they just did illegal stuff in the 50. I don't know. So your parents, how do they meet? He was nine years older than my mom. And the way they met, it's a crazy story. So she was dating my dad's best friend. They invited my dad over at some point.

And when his friend went to the bathroom, he just hit on my mom and ended up getting her number. That's like everything you need to know. I mean. But your whole life, he was in the mom. As far as I knew, yeah. And your mom knew too? She didn't know any of this until I started doing this podcast, that she didn't know anything. She also didn't know that he cheated on her their entire marriage.

And the tapes revealed a lot of that. And she was just shocked, to say the least, and very angry. She was like very angry. He was like a serial cheater constantly. There's stories I found out on the tapes where they would be on a cruise and he would be having sex with other women on the cruise. Like, how do you even do that? I'm just like, logistically, how do you do that? Probably between breakfast buffet and lunch buffet.

This episode is fun, right? Barry is a hell of a storyteller. But we do explore in this episode more than just Barry's family drama. This episode is looking at his story through his indoctrination into the ideology of his father. There's plenty of kids idolize their dads. That's normal. But Barry's dad held a godlike presence in his world. He with his father were the special ones chosen to play out a.

grand destiny together. But like all cults, the promise never matches the reality. And it always comes at a cost. How did he look? What was his appearance? He was always heavy, never that well kept, always kind of messy. I had a big mustache, receding hair line. His pants were always stained. He had mustard stains on a lot of things because he loved hot dogs. He loved showing his chest hair. Yeah. But personality-wise, huge, boisterous. He was just always the life of any room he walked into. And very funny, like a ball-busty, but like nice kind of way. The charming, charismatic personality won people over at First Blush.

But Alan had a lot of secrets. There was a dark side, a side that Barry didn't know about until much, much later in life. Right. But growing up, Alan was a rock star dad from Barry's perspective. I can't remember a time where he was not in my life and supportive. I played hockey a lot as a kid. Every game he would come to, just always very present. He picked me up from school all the time.

Even I found out later, like, when he wasn't allowed to, he would pick me up from school. And, like, I was his best friend. Honestly, it was like, it felt like a best friend situation. He would hang out with me and my friends all the time, and we would go do mini golf and go to arcade. And yeah, it was just the best. One of my favorite scenes in the podcast is at the mini golf. What age were you then? I must have been 12.

Yeah. So his gambling was always like just the thing he did. You know, it was like if your father's into golfing or if your father's into whatever, he's just into gambling. It was like a good thing. And it felt a little like I had to live in denial slightly about it as a kid because my mom and my grandma were like he's a fucking loser piece of shit. They hated him. And they were like, everything he's doing is a lie. Like, you cannot believe him. His gambling is out of control. He's an addict. And I was just like, these people are fucking crazy for thinking that. Like, he's amazing. He doesn't feel like a bad

person or a degenerate or anything. And his gambling, I was like, he barely gamble. He doesn't gamble. It was like me and my dad versus my mom and my grandmother where I was like, you don't understand. My dad isn't this person. So this one day, we were playing. mini golf and it was 1995 and all of a sudden he pulled me away from the golf course and was like let's go into the clubhouse there's a tv next to the bar we need to watch the kentucky derby and i was like oh okay yeah let's go watch the kentucky derby they're at the post and they're off breaking for the lead center of the track that serena's song with wild sin through from the inside Followed by Pyramid Peak, from the extreme outside that city deed, followed by Thunder Gulch as they move for the first turn.

And he was just like, okay, we need to root for this horse named Thunder Gulch. He was like, I have money on it. And I think that part of me at first was just like, this is kind of like validating what my grandmother and my mother say about him. But then the excitement of the race, it's the first time I can remember my dad and I like getting so. excited about something together. And we were rooting for this horse. Now it's Thunder Galtz who gets the lead. Talking man on the inside second. Now gaining ground. That's Tejano Run. It's Thunder Gulch, though, drawing off Thunder Gulch. Tejano Run. Late run by Timber Country, but it's Thunder Gulch winning the Derby. Thunder Gulch wins it by two and a half over Tehano Run and Timber Country.

And he pulls away at the end and he wins and my dad flips out. He's just like, holy shit, we fucking won. I was like, wow. And I was like, holy shit, we won. And he said, we. And it was the first time I had heard him be like, we won. You know, like it was like me and him won this race. And he revealed that he had bet a trifecta, which is you bet the horse to win, place and show.

And in the right order. And it's an insane amount of money. I think it was the next day. He just handed me $1,000. And I was just like, I can live forever on this. Like, I remember growing up that, like, $100 was a lot of money. I don't know if you remember, like, Game Boys cost $100. Still to this day, I'm like, no, if this is $300, this equals three Game Boys.

Like, I still, I still think in Game Boys. 12-year-old currency. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, that was like the first time his gambling was just like, you're bringing me into this world. And it was so exciting. And after that, I think he felt more comfortable talking about gambling in front of me and, like, telling me, oh, we have some money on this. Like, do you want to root with me?

And I think that was like, you're getting used to being, like, in this world with me now. And he started hiding it less and less and less. And that's when things got really, really interesting. That's after the break on Wasa Anacolz. Was I in a cult is brought to you by Progressive. of insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today, which is a smart choice. Speaking of smart choices, Progressives got a tool called AutoQuote Explorer.

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at 1866-531, 2,600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hey, everyone. We had a great time with Barry during our two and a half hour interview. Yeah, it was a fun time. We laughed. We joked. We made fun of Liz to her face this time.

You know, it just feels better when it's in person. Yeah, in a very ball-busty way. But if you want to listen to the entire conversation, it is live now on Patreon for our devoted Patreon members. So at one point, you discover that your father was in the mob. Yeah. When was that? It was 1997. I was 13.

I was at home. The Jets were playing the Broncos, and it was like a big game. And the 40, test of birdie. With time over the middle, Quebec, hangs on after juggling for a moment. And it's a first down at about the Denver 41-yard line. And I got a phone call, and it was my dad. Because I think he was supposed to pick me up later that day, and he was like, I'm not going to make it. I'm in jail.

And I was like, what does this even mean? And he's like, I'll explain it to you. later. I finally met up with him and he was like, look, don't be scared. I was put in jail, but it's kind of normal for what I do. And here's what I do. My interpretation of what he said was that he was a higher up in the largest gambling operation in the United States. It was part of the Gambino crime family. He was like, look, this is what I do. And I'm not a bad person, but I do take what I want. I have friends who could do really bad things to people. And don't worry like this is all taken care of i'm not going to get arrested again and if i do

there's lawyers on the payroll that just get me out the next day and i was just like this is the fucking greatest thing i've ever heard this is this is the absolute coolest thing i think the sopranos was like just starting yeah and i look back at a lot of the media back then too it was starting the glorification of anti heroes like this person's bad but they're kind of good And I was just like, holy fucking shit, this is so cool. And I had already been used to the gambling part. He slowly was like, hey, do you want to go pick this thing up for me? And I'll give you like 100 bucks or something.

And it kept making me feel better than other people because I was like, I have this secret now. And I'm like, now I'm making money on the side. I had to move schools a lot. And I never felt like part of the in crowd. I was like the weird kid. And this gave me like a thing where I was like, I have something. special that's cooler than any of these other kids. And it gave me a lot of confidence. I'm not going to tell them, but if they fucking pick on me, someone's coming. Because my dad

always made that clear. He would talk about this guy, Michael Fusco, who was like this enforcer that he knew that he was friends with, who was in and out of jail for hurting people. And he was like, one call on this guy's going to beat up your 11-year-old bully. I'm sure Michael Fusco showing up to the schoolyard and gold chains in a track suit would have made recess a whole different game. Hey, I'm looking for Billy. Is Billy around? I did warn you guys that Liz would do the accent, so...

Hey, don't talk about it. I get you off at your knees. Sorry. So Alan had one Barry's trust. So when things get completely shady or weird, it becomes much easier to brush them off or justify him. It's what everyone in a cult does. Once they have put their full trust in the leader, the leader's actions become infallible, regardless of the situation. I remember we went to Manhattan and we met up with some strange dude in a suit.

And he was like, this is whoever. And we went to a few offices together, all of us. There was always offices everywhere. A lot of them were just rooms with chairs in the middle, not even desks. just chairs and like nude women photos on the walls and like Chinese food containers on the floor. And I remember my dad started pointing to this guy to different corners of the room where to put cameras. And he started putting little cameras in these offices. And what my dad later told me was he was actually ratting out like a rival office. And I think this guy was with the FBI.

But I never was able to like verify what this was or what happened. happened. There's no reason you're going to put cameras in these shady looking offices. Like, even me, like, as like a 10-year-old, I knew this is weird. But it was cool. I thought it was super cool. Oh, it's super cool. Yeah, yeah. Don't kid yourself. Especially when your best friend's dad's a banker. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. And slowly I just started spending more and more time with him over the course of junior high and high school. And slowly I started bringing my friends more into this. Like, I had this friend Danny, who was like my best friend, and he started first bedding with my dad, too. I love that your best friend was Danny. It just sounds like

everyone's best friend. Yeah, my best friend, Danny. I had like four Danny. Yeah, everyone has a best friend, Danny. Yeah. I had a best friend, Danny. You have to. Yeah. We started picking up envelopes together from some shady office and bring it to another disposing of evidence. You say it now, and it sounds like, what the fuck, like this is so illegal. But at the time, I was like, this is a clandestine operation. I do remember there was at some point every month I would have to pick up like 10 garbage bags, stuff them in my car, and bring them to different dumpsters around New York. I would have to go like one dumpster in Queens, one dumpster in the Bronx, another dumpster

Manhattan, and I would have to like dispose of something. I think now I know what it was. It was papers that were like associated with whatever gambling, loan sharking, whatever thing they were doing there. It's like the biggest stereotypical mobster moment. Well, before and after, my dad would take me to the backroom of this pizzeria in Brooklyn. I was like, there's back rooms of pizzerias? I thought it was just the kitchen.

He was like, no, there's a back room. It was probably two or three different pizzerias. And I would meet these guys. And I just remember their hands being so big. They just would shake my hand and like envelop my hand in their huge Italian hands. and they all had slicked back hair. One of them gave me a Ken Griffey Jr. Rookie card is just a gift.

He was just like, yeah, kid, take this. And then one day, I just had been starting high school, and I got beat up outside of school. And I went to my dad, and he was like, tell me what they look like. And I'm going to get someone to talk to them. And I was just like, what? You could do that?

And he was just like, all right, I'll handle it. He literally said it's the people you make. met at the back of these pizzerias that I can call. And that was like the most like mob movie it felt. And then I remember the day after being like, this is a fucking bad idea. Like they're going to like threaten these guys and then they're going to come kill me. This is terrible. And I told my dad to call it off.

Yeah, Michael Fosco probably needed a day off anyway, right? So as Barry got older, he became more enmeshed with his father and his business. I started around high school, basically living with my dad. And it was very messy there. And I would be like, I don't feel great about how gross it feels here. It's more than messy. It was like sloth. He would get the two newspapers every day, the Daily News and the Post.

For some reason, never throw them away. He was constantly in his boxers. So my friends all knew what his balls looked like. They were just always like, your dad's balls are out. You know, it was like a thing. It was like a fun thing. I could see him as a character, like, on a TV show who was divorced, you know, like a single dad kind of situation,

or like it lives in like some kind of Bachelor Pad, you know, plays video games, I remember we play Tetris. That was kind of a game he enjoyed. That's right. I mean, the guy definitely didn't like pants. I can tell you that. That's right. I saw your dad's balls in his butt a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Ben, another childhood friend. He was always at my dad's house, too. Whenever the doorbell rang, I would see them. You would make, I think you described it once, where he would just hear it and you would just see him dive out somewhere. I get a little cringe thinking about it now because it was kind of embarrassing, but I would not allow myself to see it as embarrassing. He never cooked a meal in his life, so he would just order in from this diner called the T-bone Diner on Queens Boulevard. And he would just throw the like containers around.

I know, I know. Many things in this story sound like. like a cliché as if it's pulled from a mobster movie like the T-Bone Diner. But it's a real place. It's true. The T-Bone Diner opened in 1934 and was a neighborhood institution with its neon signs for Micah counters and a famous menu item, obviously, the T-Bone steak. Yeah. The very busy storefront just steps away from the 71st Avenue subway. It was open 24 hours.

And it must have seen its share of late-night characters and stories. Like guys named Frank meeting with their briefcases full of cash. You're Tony. Tony using a pay phone to order a hit. Just before ordering the matzabal soup. My dad is Tony. Yeah.

And then designing a sansara font for the catalog. So, looking at old photos of the T-Bone diner, it is everything you want in a Queens diner. The T-Bone had a long 88-year run until early 2022 when the city shut it down for rats and flies. And if that wasn't enough,

the owners were behind on their taxes by about $850,000. Oh, so not that far behind. No, not at all. That's a good weekend. You can make that up. But guys, the good news, it's slated to reopen as a deli. Yeah. Word is, it's coming back, but details are scarce.

If you know more, let us know bonus points if you bring us a pastrami on rye. Yeah, if you know a guy that knows a guy that knows another guy that knows another guy that knows when the fuck the deli's going to open, come tell me, okay, capish, and make sure you bring your watercash. Mobsters don't know how to use Google to find hours of a business. You got a guy that's got another guy that knows when this deli's fucking going to launch. I got an hours guy. I got a guy who knows the hours of all the business.

Oh, I got an hour's guy over here. He knows every, you know, he knows that I was every joint in the neighborhood. We call him Yelp. We call him Yelp. Yelpitio. I really hope my dad doesn't listen to this episode. You've disrespected your elders. Even Rob's getting into it.

I'm sorry, Tony. Don't hit us with San Sera Fletters. And he also, like, was earning money, and he didn't have a bank account. He kept his money in a stack above his. bed. So I thought he had a ton of money because if you have $10,000 in hundreds for a kid, you're like, my dad's a millionaire. It's a lot of game boys. A lot of game boys. Yeah. And then weird financial things would happen and where I feel it. So it was always confusing. It was always up and down. I couldn't really put together what was happening financially. But I realize now, like in my body,

I felt something is not right here. And I could feel the instability without knowing it. It felt like He had a ton of money, but he lived in a way where he didn't. He stole his best friend's identity at some point. This guy named Roy, he just stole it. And he was living in his apartment. We went to Florida maybe in the, like, mid-90s, early 90s. We've pre-9-11, so to get on a flight, you don't have to really prove you are who you are. And he had a photocopy of a license that said this guy Roy's name on it with his photo.

And it wasn't even like a real license. It was literally a piece of paper that was a photocopy of a license. And they just let him on flights with that. But it was like crazy. I started disposing of more evidence. My dad's operation was growing and he was moving up the ladder. I was too. I was making money and lots of it, like adult money.

At some point, it was up to like $1,000 a week. Cash off the books. Which for a kid, I mean, I started wearing gold chains with Jewish stars, colorful windbreakers, jumpsuits, not the cheap ones either, the velour with the stitched feeler. I looked amazing. I felt like a teenage boss, badass player. And I was making moves, big moves.

So at the time when I started working for him, I think my goal was just money. I started listening to Nellie's Must Be the Money. Do you remember that? Every day. Oh, thank you. Thank you for saying that. We get to play.

If you want to go and take the ride with me, three women. I want the L-D-O-I wants to feel this way. Hey, must be the money. You remember this? Yeah, it's not my... If you listen to enough of our show, it's a lot of older white male rock, and I don't get my music as much in the show,

so I just want to put that out there. Do not cut this, Tyler. You could just bring up Journey or sticks or ario Speedwagon. Don't stop believing. Yeah, yeah, so I was listening to Must Be the Money, the late 90s to early 2000s were just brutal culturally. It was very anti-women, very wealth is everything. I feel like we're getting back into that now.

Oh, yeah, we are. That time was just like I watched these rap videos with people with huge watches. And I was just like, that's what I want. I was dating this girl at the time. And I thought I was De Niro in Casino and she was Sharon Stone. I took her to Miami on a trip that I paid for. when we were 16. You paid for the flight with in cash.

I went to a travel agent and was like, I want to go to Miami with my girlfriend. She was next to me. That was my life. I was just like, I'm a gangster. I'm going to live this lifestyle. I have like a lot of shame about that time and how I like, I didn't treat her badly, but I was very like possessive and very, I was living this life where I was like this gangster guy.

And I was like, my whole life is her. And she only got into UMass Loll, which is the shittier UMass. So I went with her to go there. And I just remember very vividly feeling very unspecial, living in a small apartment in Lowell, Massachusetts. I'm away from the excitement. And I feel like just a normal, below normal, like below average, just schmo in a fucking bad marriage that wasn't even a marriage.

I would go back on weekends to New York and, like, still do this stuff to make money. This sounds now, as I'm saying it, very culty. At some point, I was like, I can't be this far from my dad and what he's doing and what we're doing together. You use the seaworthary. You use the seaworthary, not us. My girlfriend and I broke up, and I moved back very soon after leaving, and I was like, let's go full speed here. We're going to be right back, okay? You know, you just stay with one Italian accent.

And that's when I learned. Nothing on the surface was what was on the surface. That's after the break. Was I an occult playhouse proudly presents the one-act play. My need to relax. Oh, the world presses heavy upon me. My mind races. My body aches.

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And we are back. Hey, the break's over when I say it's over. It just keeps going, doesn't it? So Barry was too far away from his father. He's at UMass Lowell. Go River Hawks. So I came back. I transferred to Pace University in New York.

Okay. Finally, our well-worn out running joke about mascots is tying together. You see, the teams of Pace University go by the setters as an iris setter. But the mascot itself, which is an actual dog, his name is T-Bone. I thought you were going to say Johnny. No, T-bone, it's much better if it were the name of the diner. I wanted to be in finance because I was like, that's the closest thing to this gambling thing. And I basically never went.

I did just enough to, like, not fail. but I wasn't a part of college life. I was, now I see it as depression, but I was just like drinking a lot. I want to like live a crazy life of getting drunk and gambling and doing this stuff with my dad and like having this glamorous life together. And I was working with him doing stuff full time.

There was like this officey, weird, small room. And I turned it into a bedroom and I was like, I live here. And I was like, not only do I want to get involved with what you're doing, I want to make it better. At this time, I was obsessed with Microsoft Excel. And I was like, I'm going to Accelify your mob operations. What did that entail? Money in, money out.

The Excel part was just gambling. So there was a system of scoring tickets that I was involved in, which was someone would be on the phone with someone at some random office. There was also these offices I would go to in Manhattan that were like, you know, you know, If you wrote this office into a movie, you'd be like, this is two on the nose for an illegal operation. Like, most of them were next to actual sweatshops, like in the garment district in New York, and they would leave the door open, and you'd see these, like, really young women just, like, sewing, and, like, it was crazy.

There was tickets that people would literally get bets from, and apparently, you know, what my dad told me was these were, like, really high rollers that were going through this betting thing, and, like, they would write on a ticket, the New York Mets to win, and this amount, and there would all be like pseudonyms for people. It would be like, Big John made 10,000 tonight. You would just basically write them all down, add them up, and know who to pay what, but also know what percentage would go to someone. And part of my job was to score them. So it's like, why are you writing this stuff down? Put this in an Excel spreadsheet. I knew a few of his friends at that time who were like these Italian guys. They were like fat or Italian guys. They were like fat or Italian

guys. They were like, what? Excel? What the hell is this? And I was like, trust me. I'll give you these numbers so much quicker. And that's what I did. Were you gambling? Your cell? Oh, yeah. I was gambling quite a lot. My friends and I were all gambling. We would gamble through my dad. He was like our bookie, essentially. They got to come over and, you know, we got to order T-bone diner every day and gamble. And I would just take that money. I'd be like, Dad, can I put $300 on Notre Dame to win on Saturday. All of a sudden, three game boys was no big deal. And I would just do that.

My friends and I would just gamble all the time. And we were also underage, driving down to Atlantic City, spend the night playing blackjack, underaged, drive back to New York that same morning or whatever and not sleep. This was the life we were living. It was really not good. And also, like, you got to understand, like, boys who are, like, 18 or something are just... Terrifying. Maybe the worst people on earth. Everything was just leading with your cock.

I want this and I want to see this. And I have no consequences in my head at all. And there was this story of on my 18th birthday, I think. My friend Danny and I were in Atlantic City. My dad, he was like, here's $100 or $200. Get a hooker tonight. And we were like, yes, of course. We'll get a hooker tonight.

This is amazing. And he was in the room next door. And that was like, my dad would get like free rooms and shit. in Atlantic City, which I realize now is like what they give to degenerate gamblers. I thought they were just like, this guy's cool. We're going to give him a free room. That night, we decided to go to the yellow pages and look up Hooker. There was nothing.

There was guys named Hooker. There was like John L. Hooker. And he might do. He might do. We were like, maybe. I don't know. Is that what he meant? And then we tried prostitute and there was nothing.

And then we stumbled upon escort. And that was apparently what it's called. We called up the first escort place, and we were like, can you send us a woman? And they were like, what type? And we were just like, I don't know, a woman, like, just a woman, had a pretty. And they were like, what about boobs? And we were like, yes, she definitely had boobs. Yeah, just send her over.

Like, I didn't know anything. And we smoked some weed, got a little drunk in the time where we were waiting. And both my friend and I were just like, what the fuck are we doing? this strange adult is going to come to our door, and we have to, like, have sex with her? This is terrifying. Like, we did not know what the hell we got ourselves into. And we get here and knock on the door at the hotel room, and I'm like, you fucking, you go. I don't want to go.

I was, like, hiding behind a couch. And he opens the door, and there's, like, an older woman. Like, I think she was, like, close to 50. And he was like, give me a second. And he closed the door. And he came back to me. And he was like, dude, we can't. I was like, yeah, we cannot do this.

I was like, you got to tell her, we want another one. So he was like, how do I do that? I was like, just say it. I don't know, just say we want another one. And he went to the door and he was like, do you have anything else? Like that? And she was like, what? He was like, you know, just another person that's not you or something.

I was like, this is so awful that we're even saying this to her. And she was like, yeah, okay. She was just like fine with it. She was like, one second. And then we waited like 10 more minutes. And another woman came, and we were just like, oh, so, how you doing? Like, we just didn't know what to do. We just were talking to her.

She was nice. She was like, what do you guys do? And for some reason, we said we were writers on the Daily Show. The Daily Show was big. And we were just like, yeah, we write for the Daily Show. And she's like, okay. I don't think she knew what the Daily Show was. And then I have a conference with my friend and where I was like, look, we can't do this.

We cannot do this. There's no way we'd be able to do this. And I went to my dad's room. And I knocked on his door and I was like, Papa, there's a prostitute in our room and we don't know what to do with her. And he was like, send her to my room. And he took care of it. He like, she went over there and he did it. Yeah. Did you hear them? I did. Yeah. I heard a lot of it. Yeah. Did you end up paying for her? We had to give the money up front when she came in. Like, we can't just be like, we'll pay later. And you and your friend were just like.

We were like, we were like, we can enjoy our night now. You had to wake up and write for daily show the next day morning to go over the news for our jokes yeah just wanted to say if you're a sex worker listening just sending you some love that's it coincidentally at the same time i don't really know why but i started doing stand-up which would later become my career why were you influenced as a child so as part of this whole like life that my dad gave me where that felt like super glamorous one of the things was he would take me to the comedy seller in New York, which in the 90s was the club. Because my dad was into it, too.

He was very into comedy. And he would get us to sit in the front row. I was like 12, 13. Like, I was young. And I would watch these stand-up comics. You know, Seinfeld was there. Chris Rock. And I was just like, this is magical.

This is like wizardry. How do they make a whole room full of people laugh? And I remember in the back of my head, always being like, I want to do that someday. Like, I feel like I could be funny like that. And I was like, I'm always going to try it. And then I remember when I was in Lowell, I was just really at my lowest point. I was like, fuck it.

I'm just going to do a show. I don't know. I was like, I needed to feel special in some way. So I called up comedy clubs and I was like, can I perform? And they were like, yeah, there's like open mics. I was like, I don't do an open mic. I'm better than that. This is like a positive thing about my dad, too, was like he did make it seem like anything was possible.

If you wanted to do something, you just do it and you just take it. We're special. We deserve to be bigger than life. Like, I feel like I was just always like, no, I'm the best. I'm going to jump in. I'm going to do this. No reason to be humble. So I called this place and they were like, but we also have like regular shows called bringers.

You just bring a few people. In my head, I was like, I'm not going to bring people. I'm just going to pay for their tickets as if I brought people. I scheduled the date to be on this show, and it was September 12, 2001. the day after 9-11 oh my god and i scheduled this way before and then the 9-11 happens and it's obviously a big deal and i was like i still have this show tomorrow is this show going to happen they're like absolutely this show's happening i was like oh okay and i remember them saying but you can't talk about what happened yesterday because it wasn't called 9-11 it was just what happened

yesterday right i was like how do you do that you just go like well you guys had pizza and Everyone was just like, and I went there to do this stand-up show. I remember just, I was so nervous. I was just so nervous. And I got on stage, and I just bombed so badly. But I left there being like, I could see myself, like, wanting to get better. And that's when things got really weird. More on that after the break.

Hi, I'm Jesse Prey, and I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance, turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative-driven, and deeply researched, perfect for the true crime officinados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so-called Black Widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton and Dwayne Johnson, where family ties masked a sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen. All right, we are back.

I would say that you missed us, but you probably either skipped the ads or we were in the ads, so we weren't too far away, were we? So Barry, what started as admiration for his father, turned into a full transformation, which slowly became his new identity. At some point, I got like a Fila track suit,

and I started wearing, like, gold Jewish stars, and I was just like, I'm a piece of shit. I'm just going to look like a mobster. It was like kind of mobster cosplay. I'm trying to exaggerate this. Like, this is actually a viable way to live. Like, it honestly felt real. I started becoming a bookie myself with basically my dad.

We were in a situation where he would take 50% of everything I brought in, but he would cover my losses. Essentially, it was like he was backing me. He was like my mob boss. Okay, quick note in Barry's podcast, this turns out to be perhaps not. exactly as Barry remembers it. You just did the Barry right there. I did. And that's when you'll have to listen to the podcast to know what Tyler's talking about.

I'm sure Barry likes that you said the Barry. Did I say the Barry? You verbed him. At some point, he stopped being able to give me money when I needed to pay out people. And I started getting into a little bit of trouble with them and I started having to pay for my own money. and he finally told me he was like the people I was working for have kind of shut down and moved to Costa Rica. So there was a point in about 2002 or three, a lot of illegal operations moved overseas. It basically was the internet that did this. And it was pretty fast after that that I found out he was

like a year behind on his rent at this guy's apartment that he stole the identity of. And he was getting eviction notices and he couldn't afford food anymore. And then he, because my dad was always sunny. It was always like, everything's fine. I'm making a ton of money. I got this other thing. But I was like, but why are we getting eviction notices? And I basically was like, I'll support you. He had diabetes pretty bad at this point. And I was like, I'm going to get you on disability. So this started this whole like nightmare of two, three years where I basically was like, not only did I have to support him while I was a kid myself. But I was like trying to create him again as a person because he didn't exist. He didn't have a social security card. He hadn't paid taxes in 40 years or

something. He didn't even have a birth certificate. How are you affording? I took out a bunch of credit cards. I was 22 or 23. And side note, I racked up all this credit card debt and just never paid it. I like maxed out two or three credit cards and it just went away after seven years. Did you know that can happen? After seven years, if they can't find you, it just goes off your record. Some accountant I had was like, yeah, there's a seven-year statute of limitations. Okay, children, do not try this at home. It's not that simple.

Yes, most debts fall off your credit report after seven years. But that doesn't mean the debt itself vanishes. Creditors can still hound you or worse. Sue you if the statute of limitations isn't up, or they could come and just break your kneecaps, I imagine. Translation, there's no magic debt. Ferry who shows up at year 7 with a wand and wipes your slate clean. And I was working, I was like, I was working for this like boiler room operation loan office right before the loan thing happened in 2008 where all the subprime stuff.

I was working for one of those places. This was like kind of criminal light was like screwing people over with mortgages and I was never good at it. And it was during this time where Barry started to see that perhaps his dad wasn't the great and powerful Oz that he always thought he was. Now, at this point, it was like, the spell was broken, and I was like, what do I do now? What am I going to do with my life? And I put that energy into becoming a comic.

I'm going to go 100% into entertainment. And I applied to Hofstra, because I had a film program, and I was like, I'm going to learn film. I'm going to try to make a go of this stuff. This is how I'm going to take that juice that I wanted and put it into something that's not as destructive as illegal gambling and evidence. you know I needed juice from somewhere else I couldn't just live a normal life but I think I put it into something more constructive at least which is you know this entertainment business might be worse than than the mob at least there was money yeah in the mob yeah at least it came faster yeah at least you know where you stand how did you quote break free right so I started to

feel like when he was getting sick and when he stopped working and the money it was drying up, I started to be like, this is not feeling right. And he still, even to the end, was like, no, there'll be a new scheme. There's going to be a new thing. And it was just, it started to feel sad. And he died in 2007 of cancer. And, you know, he had no friends. He had nothing. He was really a shell of a person. He died penniless. I had to take care of him at the end of his life. And once he die, there was this huge sense of relief. I felt the sadness, for sure, but I don't think I fully felt sad about him dying until just recently, where I was like, you can't grieve someone that you don't see as a full person. That's what makes this kind of complicated. It's like, it would be easy to just

be like, he was evil. He was a piece of shit. He was this cult leader who dragged me and my friends into this crazy life. But he was also a good dad in a lot of ways. Like, he was very present. And I felt like He gave me a lot and also see him as a flawed person. And I think that has allowed me to finally grieve him as a real person, not as this, like, cartoon character. And it's easier to feel sad for him, too. Because, you know, I found out that time I was talking about earlier where, like, my mom and him broke up. And I was, like, everything got really bad that one of the big lessons I learned was at that time, there was a fork in his life. He was, like, the national credit manager for this major corporation at that time.

He was making a ton of money. He had a family life that was great, but he couldn't stop gambling. And he started stealing money from his company, and he embezzled $2 million from this company to feed his gambling habit. The FBI was after him. That's why my mom left him. And he was facing this huge prison sentence, and he blackmailed the heads of the company. This is a huge company. I'm not allowed to say who it is, but he had evidence of them price fixing, this international company.

And he was like, I'll release this if you press charges. So they dropped the charges. But he was never able to work in that industry anymore because he was now known as an embezzler. And I think that was the fork in his life where he could have chosen something, but he chose to be like, I'm going to go this other way. And it was hard to admit that one of the big lessons was like he was on a downward spiral from that time on where I thought he was soaring and he sucked me into it. the tapes what was your impetus in asking him to record his life on the tapes i i was at the time i was getting into entertainment and i was like there's going to be a movie about you and uh i was just like record your whole life story just go beginning to end and it's kind of funny the last thing

he says on the tapes is i will rise again and he ended up dying like maybe the next day or something but it's hours and hours of tapes and i just couldn't listen to them for so long and this Podcast made me have to listen to them, and that's where the investigation starts because he reveals really dark stuff, like very weird, very dark stuff. It was a very difficult listen. I really, really fucked me up listening to those tapes for the first time. So we listened to the entire eight-part series, which, by the way, is called searching for Alan Rothbard. And honestly, if I were Barry, hearing those tapes would have fucked me up, too. Now, we don't want to spoil anything, but what you're hearing today is not the full scope of his show. In the podcast, he takes a deep investigative dive into who his father really was.

It's an onion that at times he probably regrets ever peeling in the first place. So we'll just say this. The man lied about everything. And I mean everything. And in his podcast, there were a couple things that jumped out to Liz and I as classic signs of indoctrination. The first one, little less on the nose, he said, I was the only one who refused to see who my father really was. And later about himself, he says that he is someone who believed without question in a false

prophet. Also, in our interview, he talked about how breaking free from his father was a lot like a deprogramming. The full deprogramming has been in the last year or two, where I'm just like, I'm going to see my dad as a flawed thing and not still hold on to him as this vision of what makes me special and what makes me cooler than everybody else. You know what? I realized, though, I hadn't really got out of that mindset until recently when I did this podcast was like that idea, that like gambler mentality that was like, there's a new scheme around the corner. I'm

going to make a ton of money. And I was just like, even in entertainment, I've been that way, which is like, no, this thing's going to sell. So I can get into a bunch of debt now and this is going to sell. And like this idea that like, I'm special. Something special will happen. That's what allowed my dad to get as bad as he did, because he could never admit that things were bad. He had to keep this charade, this lifestyle up of we're privileged, we're living the coolest life. I'm a mob boss. Everything is amazing. You know, you need a little bit of that delusion, though, to do what I do and to do what we do. If you don't believe that you're special in some way, you know, it's really hard to go through the absolute hell that is this business. Like, you have to

believe somewhat. And I think my dad, that was his gift to me in a lot of ways. It was like he gave me that ability to see myself as special. But I think I also had the humility, thank God at some point to be like, but I'm also going to work hard and it's not going to just come to me easily. That was the hard work was to get over that like your larger than life thing. I think for a long time, the only reason I did stand up was for the adoration of the crowd. And then I was like, but if I want to get really good, you have to then put an enormous, enormous amount of humbling work into this. But I think that's why so many people end up in cults.

We all have a fear of being forgotten and normal. You hit a ceiling with that. If you really want to succeed, you got to be like, I'm normal and I'm going to work really hard and be me. Just saying I'm exceptional every day when you walk into a meeting, it gets you far in some ways, but you definitely hit a ceiling with that. You can only Tom Sawyer your way through life so long. Yeah. I think a big change was I got out of New York. I was doing stand-up for six, seven years in New York and just spinning my wheels. And I moved to L.A. and that's, things started taking off there. Please give a warm round of applause. Mr. Barry Rothbard. Please welcome. Very funny. Barry Rothbard. Barrett. Tell me about meeting your wife. I met her in 2010. My daughter was born in September of 2019. And then she was like, four or five months old when the pandemic started. At that time, I was really in a bad place, like mentally.

Like, we all were during the pandemic. But her birth was great, but it also fucked me up a lot. I had so much anxiety about my career and my life and I was traveling. And that's again, when I was like, I need to do this podcast. This is a great reason to listen to the tapes. Do you still have an itch or a need to gamble? That's a good question. I wasn't sports betting very much, but I started.

getting more into like crypto and like Robin Hood stocks and stuff like that and that kind of satisfied that. But I just really don't want to be involved in gambling at all. It almost like gives me the ick now. It gives me anxiety. It like triggers me in some way. And not even crypto or like stocks, like I don't want to be involved in this like hoping that something hits or doesn't. Like I just want to do the work. All I want to do is do enough work to get another job. and to keep working and keep supporting my family. And that's, that is my goal. I mean, you live in Pasadena, for that sake.

You have a nice, cute little suburban neighborhood. You are about as far away from your father and that lifestyle as possible. Yeah, it feels like it. I can pick up my daughter from school every day like my dad did, but also work and be able to have a normal job, somewhat normal. But I do feel like, you know, you can't fully get rid of that programming. Like, everyone's in a while I am like, am I boring? I got to do something big.

I got to get a big movie sold. I got to do something. Or just take some garbage bags to various areas. I still to this day, throw out my garbage in different parts of L.A. Yeah, it's really strange. And where do they find you? Find me at Barry Rothbart everywhere, and then the podcast is on Audible. Searching for Alan Rothbart.

And it's doing all right. It's doing great. Yeah, it's been number one on Amazon new releases for a week and a half now. That's fantastic. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Yeah, this is amazing. Thank you.

You want to eat? Yes. Yeah, let's do it. And we did eat. We did. It was a nice meal. I had a bowl. Yeah, it was like a bowl I had.

It was really nice. So thank you, Barry, for dining with us. And thank you for coming on and telling your story. Barry, you're awesome. It was really great to sit down with you and get to know you better. And if you're listening out there and you're feeling like your life is sometimes, you know, too boring. or to normal, just think. Maybe that normalcy is your protection

from being lured into a cult. And Barry, your story a bit reminds me of Goodfellas. You remember at the end of it when Henry Hill, Ray Leota's character turned state's evidence against the mob and Robert De Niro, and then it shows him picking up the newspaper in a suburban house.

Normal. Yeah, you might be in suburban Pasadena, but Barry, you're doing a little bit better than Ray Leota. You're not in a cult. But you're not in a cult. Anything I wanted was a phone call away. Free cars, the Keistwood doesn't hide out flats all over the city.

I'd bet 20, 30 grand over a weekend. And then I'd either blow the winnings in a week or go to the sharks to pay back the bookies. Everything was for the taking. And now it's all over. And that's the hardest part. And today everything is different. There's no action. I have to wait around like everyone.

else. Can't even get decent food. Right after I got here, I ordered some spaghetti with marinera sauce and I got egg noodles and ketchup. I'm an average nobody. Get to live the rest of my life like a schnuck. Yeah, your father was big and grand, but in the end he had no followers, no friends, no fortune. He died alone and he burned every bridge, probably owing more money than he ever made. It's the fate of so many call-leaders and conmen. The mythology is always fantastical, but the truth is always sad and small and often quite lonely. Alan and his story shows us that co-leaders and con men, well, they kind of operate on the same playbook. Their charm and charisma is their cover.

They promise greatness. They build new identities that adhere to that promise. They create illusions of power that command devotion. And then they exploit that devotion. until there's nothing left. And then for you, when the illusion finally breaks, well, you're left picking through the wreckage, wondering how you ever believed any of it in the first place.

Barry's podcast, searching for Alan Rothbart, is available exclusively on Audible and is highly recommended by us, your leaders. However, I will say, you can listen to it, but make sure you come back to us. Yeah, at least be caught up here first. You can also find Barry on Instagram at Barry. Rothbart. He's still to stand up. You can find his shows here, there, and everywhere.

And I don't know. He might come after you if you don't go to one of his shows. He just had to get one more in, didn't you? Just one more before we leave. Make sure you become a loyal, devoted follower of Barry, if you don't, one end up in a garbage bag. Capish. Barry also has a podcast where he talks about documentaries, one of my favorite things in the world. It's entitled The Podcumentary Podcast. Oh, my dad would love that. Yeah?

Maybe punography could be featured on the podcumentary podcast. Because of the pun, the punumentary. Oh, boy. Yes. All right, guys, thank you very much, Barry Rothbart. Hey, great. Great job, Barry Rothbart. Barry, you're awesome.

Thank you again. And we'll be back. Next week, where something really, really weird changes trajectory of Tyler in my life forever. Not really, but it's a good episode. That's next week. On was I in a cult. So at the river, you are constantly in repentance and constantly burdened with sin and running from offense. I was constantly writing in my journals how it wasn't good enough for God.

It breaks my heart just looking back. at my journals, thinking that how often I was repenting for nothing. And it was like, I thought it was a bad person. Like, I should be in jail type of L. Like, that's how much bad I felt about myself. Was Anna Colt is written, hosted, produced by Tyler Keybone Meesham. That's right. Bringing it back.

He's like a fucking Irish setter that won't strike. biting my goddamn leg turn her off please and lucky Lizzie and Rob Polly Pocket Sparra and special thanks to Kristen Knuckles LaRouche

for setting up the interview and Elizabeth the bullet Beckett and Drew Shakedown Shenfield from Mosaic Studio engineer is Stacy the safe cracker Perra. And of course, our videoographer is gangster Gabby rap.

Which means wrap this motherfucker up, bitches, before I break all of you's legs, eh? Take out your night. Curify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify This September, CBS hits are streaming free on Pluto TV. For this month only, you can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love. From the courtroom drama of Madlock to the heroics of fire country.

Go back to where it all began in NCIS origins, or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts. 3. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love. This month only on Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.