Was I In A Cult? - The Raelians: “Aliens, Polygamy and Clones”

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

You’ve heard of doomsday cults and self-help cults… but what about an alien cult? This week, we’re taking you on a journey beyond the stars—or at least, beyond logic—as we explore The Raelians. This episode is love bombing at its best and most seductive form. _____________ Follow us for more culty content: @wasiinacult  Have you ever been love-bombed into a belief system that felt too good to be true? Or maybe you’ve found yourself drawn into a group that promised cosmic truths, only to leave you questioning everything? We’d love to hear your story—email us at [e-mail]  Want ad-free episodes? Support us on Patreon and help fund our de ep dives into the culty corners of everyday life—because sometimes, the things we accept as 'normal' deserve a second look. Link to register for Writing Symposium

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network or any of their respective affiliates. three years of going back and forth and wanting to document my experience with this particular group. But when I first set out, it was all pejorative and negative. There is a lot of weird shit. I'm not going to deny that. But with the benefit of wisdom and years, I feel like I've got a little bit of a different perspective. And I think I'm ready.

I think I'm ready to tell the story of the Raelians. And they are an alien cult. ["The Raelians Are an Alien Cult"] Welcome, Earthlings, to Was I in a Cult? I'm your leader, Liz Iacuzzi. You gonna do that the whole show or just the opening? Only if you want me to, Tyler. Ah, you can go ahead and guess how I feel about it.

I think you don't. I think the answer is no. Therefore, you're going to... Do it whenever I feel like it. I'm sure you will. I'm Tyler Meesum, your humble first-in-command on this spaceship. I'm here to bring you more stories of wild cults and wild badass people who got in and miraculously got out. In today's episode, guys, we are calling our Love Bomb episode, which you will soon understand why. Mm-hmm. That's because we are talking about the Raelians. Now, this is a cult. I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's a cult right now.

Spoiler alert! They believe that humanity was intelligently designed by aliens. Yeah, because when I look around at humanity, the first thing I think is, yeah, this was well thought out. There's some parts that work. Trees are nice when we don't cut them down, but they're nice. Maybe just designed, take out intelligently. Guys, there is a doc series on this cult, on Netflix about them them because when people run

around naked, claim to have cloned a human baby, and have also rebranded the swastika, I guess people tend to take notice. And it has been a minute since we've had an alien cult on this show, and honestly, my goodness, it's about time. If extraterrestrials were planning to abduct us, you'd think they'd have done it before things got this weird down here. They don't want us now. Yeah, they're like, next planet. Is there another small blue dot that we can go bother?

So. So with that guys, hold on to your spaceships, set your phasers to what the fuck and get ready for a ride into the world of Ra'el, the Elohim, and the suspiciously good-looking believers who tried to beam our guest up into their orbit. Please welcome our incredible guest, who Liz had a wonderfully long and amusing interview with.

He is using an alias today. He's going by Wookie. Yeah, I think he said that was his camp nickname. Like Chewbacca, he's a Wookie. He's a Wookie. Cue the sound effects, Rob. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I was born in Louisville, Kentucky back in the 70s and I grew up sort of in a working-class family. Nothing super crazy about my upbringing. I went to private school in Louisville. I am culturally

Jewish. That's about as far as it goes. I appreciate the ritual and I remember my dad and sitting on his lap and looking at the words and the prayers. I don't, you know, prayers don't mean anything to me, but it was comforting. You know, grew up in a punk family. My brother was a punk guitarist in a bunch of hardcore bands. So I had people with combat boots and mohawks in my living room all the time. Back then, I just wanted to fit in and sort of found power in the nerds and the dorks. And through that, I was able to get in and sort of found power in the nerds and the dorks and through that

I was able to get through my middle and high school years because I was fraught with anxiety and so didn't do great in school, managed to get into college but barely. And so fast forward, I went to Chicago, I looked at AmeriCorps programs because I saw that you could pretty much get hired pretty quick and that's how I entered the education sector where I am to this day. AmeriCorps. This is a national service program where idealistic young people sign up to change the world and in return, they get a modest stipend and a lifetime supply of character building experiences. I did a year of AmeriCorps.

And his stipend was? I don't know, like $600 a month. It's like a gap year, but instead of backpacking through Europe, you're tutoring kids, rebuilding communities or pulling invasive weeds from national parks. Which we may need now more than ever. Yeah, unfortunately. Founded in 1993, AmeriCorps is a federal-funded program that places volunteers in nonprofit, educational and public service roles across the U.S.

Over one million people have served in AmeriCorps, tackling everything from disaster relief to public health initiatives. And in exchange, members receive a deep appreciation for free snacks. I'm living in an apartment on Division Street, which now is kind of bougie, but back then it was kind of a rougher area.

I actually found the neighborhood to be pretty fucking awesome. I met my neighbors, it was very neighborhood-y. Like I knew the people walking down the street and they would give me five. And I was working at a high school right on the corner. I wanted that big city sort of feel and living there, I got it.

So Chicago has changed a lot since I lived there. There are entire neighborhoods now that didn't even exist 15 years ago, not at least in the way they do now. For instance, the West Loop. Now it's the dining mecca. Michelin stars everywhere, but back in the day it was all sketchy warehouses and meatpacking plants. And Division Street, which is what Wookie's referring to, which runs through Wicker Park and Westtown, used to be the land of dive bars, sketchy liquor stores, 24-hour diners, you know the punk and grunge scene, hipsters before hipsters were a thing. Now it's

all trendy cocktail bars, high-end restaurants, and boutique fitness studios. And I can't tell which one would I rather have. You don't want to go to an aerial yoga class at four o'clock tomorrow, Tyler? I'll take the sketchy liquor store. Thank you very much. I'll take PBR for two dollars. We do. We do have a fantastic following in Chicago. In fact, in terms of listenership, it is our number two city just behind Melbourne. Shout out to Chi town. But I found a person that sort of latched on to her name is Beth. And it's just kind of a badass bitch. I don't know how else to explain her and we spent pretty much every weekend doing stupid shit like kids do.

There was a lot of just boredom and angst and like, why the fuck am I here? And you know, where am I going? What am I doing? Like always angry about it. Sort of a privileged angst and like why the fuck am I here? And you know where am I going? What am I doing? Like always angry about it. Sort of a privileged angst. Her Anhui and mine sort of fed on each other. She called me and I'll never forget this and she said there's an Elvis Costello concert. When at this point I am thinking back on Elvis Costello I wish I were cool enough to have known enough about him at the time. All right. Now, I know this is where you want me to come in and give facts off the top of my head about Elvis Costello, but you don't know any, do you?

Sadly enough, I am going to say the same thing as Wookie, because I know, I don't, I know Elvis Costello, but I don't know a lot about Elvis Costello. Tyler is stumped on white male rock music. Guys, we might need a quick break. Yeah, I can't know everything, Liz. I mean, I know his hits. There's some great songs. Allison, for example.

Oh, Allison. Watching the Detective is a good one. She's watching the detectives. Every day I write the book. Watching The Detective is a good one. Every day I write the book. And my favorite, which is What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding. Great song. I don't know much about him as an artist, although I enjoyed learning. He was born Declan Patrick McManus in Paddington, London. However, he grew up in Liverpool. Not much musical history there, right? He changed his name in 1977 when his first manager

wanted a more rock and roll name. And so he chose Elvis? I mean, what's more rock and roll than Elvis, right? Sure, but like, isn't that name already taken? I'm kind of a little confused. Like, oh, we want more of a pop name. How's Madonna? Yeah. Think that one's, I think that one is taken.

And you know what? Choose Abbott or Costello. One of the two. Well, hey, look, he made it through. He made it. Yeah, it worked out for him. He's been called the smartest man in rock. So don't question the name, right? He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2003. Cleveland! Shout out to Cleveland! So I reluctantly agreed. I remember taking the L down to the Jackson Stop and getting off and looking up at the sky and the sky is the most ominous thing I've ever seen. We go and we find a spot and we set up a little blanket and it was very humid.

And we're looking around and we're actually in a patch where there aren't a ton of people and I'm like, okay, well, maybe this will be good and he comes out and he gets halfway through the first song and the skies open up. And he goes off stage and Beth and I are just getting drenched. We did not have umbrellas. We were in shorts and t-shirts. Everyone else is like running this way and that. I'm like, where are you running to?

There's nowhere to go. And so we're just sitting there and that's when Beth poach me. And she points over toward the bandstand and there's a group walking and chanting something. I don't know what the fuck. I don't remember what they were chanting. And they were holding up a sign that I can only describe as a gift wrap roll with a sign stapled to it.

And it said something about the truth about aliens, their undoing religion, proving technology is king, something like that, with one of those giant alien heads, the stereotypical one with the giant eyes, just really campy. Beth looks at me and she goes, I bet you won't go over there and talk to them. And I look around and I'm like, I told my beer, and I remember slogging over there and the rain's coming down and starts to like dissipate. I swear to God, right as I'm walking up to them. I will say they were some of the most attractive people I've ever seen in my life. Almost too perfect.

It looked like the rain was just beating off of them. I don't know. It was so weird. And this woman comes up and she had this deep French accent and she says, what would you like to know? And I said, what is this, you know? And she says, we are the followers of Raelle. Do you know who he is? Have you heard the news? And I was like, I have not heard the news. And she's like, well, here's a pamphlet and let's talk. Her name is Marina. She was gorgeous and why was she talking to me?

But in that moment she also like pulled in her boyfriend, Chris. Chris was a professor at Columbia College. He was also a beautiful man but very polished like in a 70s sort of style. He had sort of almost that lion shirt open to show chest hair, bell bottoms, tight pants and he just looked like something out of a catalog. And Chris was the nicest guy I've ever talked to and very cool and, you know, like, and just jiving with whatever I was saying, but I noticed that we weren't talking about the aliens. And what they had to say, they were more like glad handing me. And I think this is where I can look back and I can say, okay, maybe this was a tactic.

Okay, we're going to go ahead and override that maybe Wookie and replace it with a most fucking definitely it was. If you harken back to what I said earlier about how I grew up and I was the outsider and all I wanted to do is fit in, these were gorgeous people solely interested in me. Wanting to know what I had to say and smiling, like their body language was just perfect. I ended up talking about me and not really finding out much about them. They were just so communicative and... Once again, a pamphlet. Beware the pamphlets.

And I think that's where I sort of started smiling and I walked all the way back to Beth. It had been 15 or 20 minutes and she was just standing there agape. And right as I got back, Elvis started up again. And the rest of the show was amazing, but I don't remember much of it because obviously I... I was in love. There's a reason it's called love bombing. But this was precision laser guided bombing. I told Beth everything and she's like, you're not going to call. Like, what the fuck do I have to lose? called Love Bombing. But this was precision laser guided bombing.

I told Beth everything and she's like, you're not going to call. Like, what the fuck do I have to lose? Like, why not? Like, it's funny. I use my writer angle and I'm like, I can fucking write about this. Like, I could do like an expose or whatever, you know, like, I'm sure some people get involved and get pulled in by doing the very thing that I was doing. Yeah, we would go so far as to say most people. I certainly would have fallen prey to the charms of the rain soaked French Marina with the touchy touchy hands and the personalized pamphlet.

I actually ironically had a girlfriend at this point. I didn't really tell her about it. You know, oh, by the way, I'm talking to an alien cult. Now, to be fair, he didn't yet know it was a cult, but his intuition knew it was odd enough to maybe not brag about. I got home that night and the pamphlet was just like, challenge what you know. And, you know, there's science and we know all this shit about science that you don't know. And we've got the secrets and we're going to build these fucking embassies, and we'll get all the technology, and you know, it's

super appealing. And I had a phone number scribbled on it of a gorgeous woman. I called her, and she picked up on like the second ring, and it is her personal cell phone. She was very happy to hear from me. And she again just like started talking to me and asking me about my experience there and what I think of the rain and we ended up talking for like 45 minutes an hour and I'm just like, Jesus, what is happening here? You, my sweet dear Wookie, are being love bombed by a cult.

It's a lot of really interesting shit. There's all this talk of technology. There was a free love aspect to them as well. These were the first, I later found out, the first Polly people I'd ever met. I had never met anyone who was Polly before Marina and Chris. So that added to, oh, well I still have a chance, but you know, it was, it was attractive, I will say. I don't know, Tyler, what do you think? Do you think it was attractive? It was certainly attractive. It was intriguing. I wanted to know what they were doing. I wanted to know what the hook was.

And I wanted to know how all these seemingly pretty awesome people were believing this. Got the token pamphlet out of the way. And next up, free cult snacks. And she invites me to a potluck. Even better. Checkmate. Alien devotees. Which I just found hilarious. And I remember, like, before the potluck, I called the girl I was dating. And I just, I told her, I'm going to a potluck with a bunch of people that I met in an Elvis Costello concert who were holding up a sign about aliens and I think it's rad.

And she was not having it. Like, she was just like, dude, like this is fucking weird. Rightly so, you know? And she finally was resigned to it and she's like, okay, if you haven't called me by such and such time, I know to call the authorities. She wasn't kidding. Marina had given me an address that was basically on the lake somewhere in Lakeview. I don't remember.

Shout out to Lakeview. I used to live in Lakeview. Hmm. Hmm. Uh, okay. Oh, you said that like in the most I could give a fuck. Hmm. Uh, yeah. Subtext, I don't care. Good, then I nailed the delivery.

And I told her the address and I said, this is the time that I'm gonna go. She's like, what time? I said, nine o'clock. She's like, a fucking potluck that starts at nine o'clock p.m. What are you guys doing? And I said, I have no fucking idea. But whatever it was, Wookie was intrigued and honestly, so am I. However, we have to listen to commercials first. We'll be right back. Okay, so here's the truth. I'm obsessed with clean water. I have wanted reverse osmosis

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Let's be honest though, most importantly, does it make my coffee taste better? Yes, your coffee, my tea, everything tastes so much better. I'm actually drinking more water just because it's so delicious. And right now, AquaTru is offering 20% off any purifier to our listeners. Just go to AquaTru.com, that's A-Q-U-A-T-R-U.com and enter code INACULT at checkout. That's 20% off any AquaTru water purifier when you go to aquatru.com and use our promo code I-N-A-C-U-L-T in a cult. AquaTru comes with a 30-day money

back guarantee and even makes a great gift. Because staying hydrated shouldn't mean poisoning yourself. That should be their new slogan. You're welcome, AquaTru. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. When I was a kid I learned a lot from my mother and one of those things was cooking. I learned about rock music from my older sister. But sadly probably no one sat you down to teach you about money. No, that's because learning about Van Halen is much more fun than learning about interest earning savings accounts.

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Well, for those of you who would like to hear how our sausage gets made, we're going to put the entire recording session on our Patreon so you can hear every single terrible joke and failed attempt at a line read. It's actually quite fun to listen to, I will say. But for now, let's get back to the edited part. Maybe at the end of this episode, Rob, you can give them a little taste of what the Patreon will sound like. There you go. A taste of the sausage. Yeah. A Costco sample of the sausage.

Today's Chipotle infused. So here is Wookie and now it's time for potluck with the aliens. Incidentally, the term potluck derives from the late 16th century. It means luck of the pot. And basically diners would get whatever happened to be in the pot that day without a planned menu. Liz, Liz, because I wasn't finished.

So I go. But it was a condo and it was a gigantic one and it was on the lake. It had its own private beach. It's amazing. And there were probably, oh, 50 or 60 people in this fairly sizable living room. There are circles of people just sitting and talking. All these people are like super dorks, but they're really lovely. And I start talking to this one guy. I sit on a couch and I'm next to him and he's reading with Science Monthly or whatever. And he's like super normal. And I think he's like a veterinarian. His name was Greg. We end up talking about D&D and some pretty badass stuff. You know, I said, why are you into this? What is it about this? And, you know, I remember at this point I was grilling him.

He looked at me immediately and he was like, I sense that you're not here for the right reasons. And I said, why, why do you think that? And he said, because you're coming at me pretty strong about why I want to do this. I said, well, I mean, I mean, I'm exploring it. And he's like, listen, I'm not going to doubt your intentions. But for me, I personally know this shit is batshit crazy. But I don't care because they're offering me shit

that I would only dream of. They're offering me a chance to build these badass embassies. They've got designs and they're really fucking cool. But we're building this fucking embassy and we cloned someone and I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. He's like, they clone people, man. And I'm like, what do you believe this? He's like, I don't know what's happening here. He's like, they clone people, man. And I'm like, what do you believe this?

He's like, I do. And I wanna believe it, so I'm going to believe it. And I'm like, and I remember he looked at me right in the eyes and he said, if I'm not harming anyone, and these people around me are not harming anyone, why do you have to fuck with me? And for better or for worse, whatever that was,

it did send me reeling. Yeah, if he believes that, and that's the whole of his intention, why am I fucking with him? So I stopped fucking with him. And I really sort of backed off and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna stop thinking I'm above these people because I'm not, obviously,

and I'm just gonna sort of dig in and see what tonight's about. Now, people are always fascinated by the how of cults. How does someone who has a good head on their shoulders get totally brainwashed into thinking something absolutely insane? Now how does this happen? Well, this is exactly how. We are watching cognitive dissonance unfold in real time.

You see Wookie walks in skeptical thinking this is insane this is a cult but suddenly he's surrounded by friendly normal seeming people who aren't acting how he expected and within minutes he's questioning himself instead of them. You see his brain is trying to reconcile two conflicting truths. This is bizarre but these people seem smart and welcoming and that internal conflict creates the self-doubt. The moment he stops questioning them and starts questioning himself, they've got him right where they want him, which is open to hearing more.

You see, cults, intentional or not, create situations where reality doesn't match a recruits assumptions, forcing their brain to adjust. This creates an opening for influence, because once somebody starts questioning their own skepticism, they become open to new explanations, which is exactly how belief systems start taking root. So Wookie is here for whatever it is. I don't know what's about to happen, but there are these circles of people in there. I don't know if they're doing prayers or whatever they're doing. There's a guy walking around who has shoulder-length hair and sort of a black robe. And I'm like, I don't know

what that dude's about. Like, everyone else looks fairly normal. I don't even know these people, but they're like, yeah, dude, I like you, you should come back, you know, all this. They've got this book. The book is like their holy book It's called intelligent design and it tries to emulate like a biblical style. I don't know it reads very easily But they're selling this book for like 75 bucks We will you buy the book all the money goes to support these embassies that are gonna be built It's for a good cause is basically the line that I was given I was on the verge of buying the book part of it was to get them off my ass

But the other part was I gotta read this was on the verge of buying the book. Part of it was to get them off my ass, but the other part was, I gotta read this shit. Will you buy the book? I'm like, I'm fucking broke. I live on $600 a month, a stipend. No, I'm not gonna buy a $75. Okay, maybe next time. By the way, the original title of this book was The Message Given to Me by Extraterrestrials.

They Took Me to Their Planet. This certainly intrigues many a potential reader and even today you can buy that first edition for about 45 bucks so you kind of dodged a bullet there Wookie by not buying the $75 book back in 2003. So the room is totally vibing, they're playing really cool music like rock and whatever. I'm having a great time, I'm drinking. And it's fun and it's fairly normal except for the guy in the black robe.

I'm like, I don't know what's up with that. He looked like an important dude. And I spotted his medallion and this is where the alarm bells should have started going off. It's a Star of David with a swastika intertwined into it. So I certainly do a double take and I'm like, what the fuck is that about?

And draw back, but then I'm like, I'm in it, I'm in it to win it, sorry dad, sorry all of my ancestors, friends, like who suffered at the hands of the Nazis. But at this point I'm in full on justification mode. I still like these people. Like I've gotta keep doing this, I've got to keep doing this. I got to keep going. And then the guy in the robe raises his hand. And I don't

know if he snapped his fingers or clapped his hands, but everyone in the room went dead fucking silent at this moment. Oh, what's happening? And I was like, this is it. This is the moment. And he's like, it is now time for us to adjourn to the beach if everyone could file out single file. So I follow and the people behind me and in front of me are dead silent. And I'm like, what is this? What's happening?

And we're just walking silently down the steps. We get to the beach and the guide said, everyone line up one by one so that you're looking at the water. And then he said, join hands, and we joined hands. And then he gave us the speech about it being August 6th, I believe, and this is the Raelian New Year. He said, just look out at the waves and listen to how peaceful it is, but remember that on August 6th, the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima was the worst technological disaster of our time.

And I'm like, I can't argue that. It was a pretty big fucking calamity, but I'm like, okay, so what are you getting at? And we're standing there and he's talking about that was the beginning of a new era and we're post-apocalypse. And because we're post-apocalypse, we are trying to live in peace with technology. And so, to please the Elohim, these space aliens that Rael talks about, we are going to do the transmission ceremony. And I didn't know what that was, but he had like a cooler of water and he explained that water is a natural conductor of electricity. And because he's

a holy guide of the Raelians, which is their priests, he was going to dip his hands in the water and put his hands on each of our heads to transmit our DNA information to the Elohim mothership. But when he does this conduction, it'll conduct our genetic material to them so that when they decide to come back, when they decide we're worthy, if we're dead, they'll resurrect us. If we're alive, we'll be honored. And he dipped his hand in the water and then put his hand on each person's forehead, asking them if they wanted to partake in the ceremony.

And I'm like, I don't do it. Am I going to let this guy touch my fucking head? And you know, I think my rationale at that moment was, okay, what ticks off another God box, right? If there is a creator, if it's their creators, I'm good with those. Really dumb fucking logic, but I did what I did, I let him do it. No, okay, this is not necessarily dumb, this is how cults pull you in. It's never about full belief at first, just small compliance.

You're not signing your life away, just going along with one little thing. You're attending a meeting, eating some potluck. And once you say yes to that, it gets harder to say no to the next thing because the moment you participate, even a little, your brain starts shifting from, this is weird, to, well, I mean, I did just take part, so maybe it's not that weird. And he just stood there and he like started mumbling something. I don't know what he was mumbling. And after he went down the line, we stood there in silence for like another five minutes. Like I was starting to get anxious.

And then suddenly, you know, the guide got to the end of the line and said, we may re-adjourn to the living room. And that was it. we may re-adjourn to the living room. And that was it. So I have later done research on this ritual and what I have found out is that I don't know how I got this done without signing the paper because they have an actual paper that you sign giving them permission when you die to, giving them permission when you die to, oh god how's this gonna sound, alright, to extract a piece of your skull from the middle of your head and that will signify your third eye that sees the Raelians. This piece of paper apparently guarantees that doctors or something will send this piece

of bone to Rael himself who will then conduct it to the Elohim. And that's apparently a big honor. And then you have a third eye. Cool, yay. No, totally. That makes sense. The whole time I knew, you know, somewhere in my mind that this wasn't normal, this wasn't okay.

I should not have called her to begin with. But I'm not gonna lie, I am sort of entranced by all of this because it felt profound. I don't know how profound in retrospect it actually was, but I left feeling lighter and I got home and I called Evie and I'm like, I'm alive. And she's like, oh, fucking hell. Good Lord. So I made it through and that was exhilarating. Like it was it was it was awesome. Cults create environments designed to disorient you rituals secrecy a sense of exclusivity And the brain doesn't always differentiate between emotional intensity and actual truth when something feels profound

It feels true. That's how they override logic how they bypass rational thinking. It's not about facts anymore It's about how it feels. And right now Wookie feels as though he's just had a transformative experience. And don't go anywhere everybody. We just need to go transmit some ad revenue to the mothership. Wazana Cult is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Hey Liz, you ever think about switching? You know, shaking things up a little? All the time. Yeah, you think about switching insurance companies

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So visit progressive.com after this episode and see for yourself if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. If you have a cat, you know that he is the boss of your house. Oh yeah, sure, he lets you think you are, you know that he is the boss of your house. Oh yeah, sure, he lets you think you are, but he is...

Because he can fire you and replace you with a great big ball of string. Yeah, and you don't want that to happen to you. No! So be nice to your boss and get him a new and exciting place to poop. Because all cats poop. Some just do it in a dumb old litter box and some, well, they poop in litter robot, which cleans itself. That's right, you subservient peon. No more scooping. Litter robot self-cleaning technology automatically cleans after every use so your cats will always have a fresh bed of litter.

And litter robot will send a notification to your phone when it needs to be emptied. My furry black and white boss loves his litter robot-Robot and frankly so do I and when I say love I mean it. It's a lasting love. It's complete with butterflies in my stomach when I see it. It's actually true. Join the over 1 million happy bosses who've upgraded the Litter-Robot. As a special offer to our listeners of the show go to StopScooping.com slash cult and use promo code cult to save an additional 50 bucks off any Litter Robot bundle. An additional guys, that's 50 dollars off any Litter Robot bundle at StopScooping.com

slash cult. Use our promo code cult. StopScooping.com slash cult promo code cult. What's that boss? Sorry. Meow. OK, so only from what Wookie has already mentioned, it can appear that this is a weird group. But, you know, first impressions aren't always correct, because if you dig in deeper, you'll find that...

They're even weirder. Well, so the Rayallians are they describe themselves as a technological space religion. The Rayalians are, they describe themselves as a technological space religion. The idea is that these Elohim, like I said, are these little space people, aliens, who came to Earth, created the human race, and then they split and just sort of fucking left us here. Thanks. We did horrible things with our technology, so they don't want to sort of know us right now. Elohim is a word for God.

In Hebrew, at least that's what I was taught growing up, I might be wrong, but I guess it could maybe be translated as those who came from the sky. Well, sort of. You see, Elohim is a Hebrew word for God, but it's technically a plural word and can sometimes mean God. So Rael interpreted it to mean those who came from the sky, even though that's not an actual translation. In Hebrew, sky is a completely different word, but Rael needed a way to connect his alien creator theory to something that sounded biblical, which is definitely not how most rabbis would translate.

But the Raelians believe that now we're in the post-apocalypse time after the dropping of the atomic bomb. So if we are able to do righteous things such as build embassies to welcome them back to Earth, they will come and they will grant us all the technology that we are behind them. OK, so let's talk about the real alien in the room. These supposed embassies they are building. They are embassies to welcome back the Elohim. The Elohim apparently gave these to Ra'el, these dimensions and what they're supposed

to look like. And they're basically impossible buildings. I'm like, man, if they look anything like what I think those diagrams show, that'd be pretty fucking cool. But I don't know how that would work, like structurally. I don't know. I think those diagrams show. That'd be pretty fucking cool, but I don't know how that would work, like structurally, I don't know. I'm not an architect, but here's the thing, I've never found a straight answer on how many embassies need to be built, when they should be built by, because I think those parameters would then take away from their ability to drain people of their money to build them. Ding ding ding ding ding ding! Wookie wins! He's now officially qualified to teach the course himself! Great, I get a new co-host.

It's my lucky day! Thank you, aliens! I was asked to donate pretty much every time I was there. I mean, at this point I can acknowledge that obviously it's hilarious. There's definitely some humor to it, but it's also kind of terrifying that people would even come close to believing this. But then you think about modern religion and it's very similar. I hate to say it, but it is. What are you talking about? Mormons believe they get their own planet in the afterlife.

Catholics believe they're literally drinking the blood and eating the body of a man who died 2,000 years ago. And in Hinduism, you screw up in this life, you might come back as a cockroach in the next. Seems all pretty normal to me. Even if you were to believe any of this, Raël is actually the most interesting character in this whole saga. He is a French man by the name of Claude Vorlhoun, I believe is how you say it. And as the story goes, he was kind of naughty in school, like I kicked out of several schools because he questioned the traditional Christian values or whatever was being taught in the parochial schools. And then, I don't know, he grew up or he was – I love this – he was a former race

car driver and enthusiast and he was terrible at it, I guess. But one day he was walking by a volcano in the south of France and at this volcano he met the Elohim who they basically had this really awkward conversation where he's like, why me? And they're like, because you're pure and you can spread the message that we are here and we love them and we want these embassies to be built. And the world is about free love. And so the free love piece that we don't care what you do. We love you no matter what.

Love, love, love. Is he sure these aliens weren't just a group of college kids tripping on Molly? We love you no matter what. Love, love, love. So that's kind of what he offers. And so I guess he decided to found a religion and he did it, like, to his credit.

There was also a free the dick and nipple portion of this group that we forgot to mention. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Raelle believed that modesty was a human made construct and that embracing nudity and free love brings us closer to our alien creators. In fact, the Raelians have campaigned for topless rights and sexual liberation because apparently when the aliens return, the last thing they want to see is men wearing pants.

Tricks out, digs out. That's what I say. Just shirts, no pants. Men with shirts and no pants. What is that called? The Charlie Brown or something? No, not the Charlie Brown. The snow. Winnie the Pooh. The Winnie the Pooh. Yeah.

The Winnie the Pooh. I mean, this guy just wanted to fuck people and I'm like, no shit, he wanted to fuck. He's advocating free love. He's the leader of this religion, right? Of course that's what he wants. I mean, you see this guy and he's got like a bun. So I don't know, he's got like the man bun, but I mean, he's powerful, right?

He was serious about this. He got to fucking Congress. And that's kind of terrifying if you think about it. Human cloning will make it possible for us to reach eternal life. It is the right of the people who want to enjoy the fruit of scientific progress, including human cloning and eternal life,

to benefit from it. So I asked Wookie if he believes in aliens. Aliens exist. Don't think they look like tiny sex pots. Maybe they do. They are planets that are Goldilocks planets where, sure, they probably exist. Whether or not I'll ever see them, I don't know. Probably not.

I know that if I were an alien and I came to this planet and I saw shit like what this is, I would turn right back around. The Drake Equation, which is basically a string of algebra, it suggests that we are probably not alone. With trillions of planets in the universe, the odds of alien life are pretty high. Now, scientists have found plenty of Goldilocks planets. These are worlds that could support life. 65% of Americans believe there is intelligent life in the universe and while 10 percent believe they have actually seen a UFO or an alien.

So back to Wookie and the group. Marina called me at least two or three times a week and she kept inviting me to shit like you've got to come to the central meditation. It's like nothing you've ever seen. He turned that down immediately, right? So I go to this space and it's middle of the day, like in this apartment. It's a loft. So it's just a giant open, beautiful exposed brick everywhere.

And there's like a table set up in one corner with this giant stereo system with giant speakers. And I'm like, cool. And they tell us to lie down on our backs so that a part of our body is touching another person. I'm like, yeah, my head's like touching some guy's hip. And then my feet are touching God knows what on this other woman. Just as the aliens designed it. I'm not even looking.

And I'm just like, I've got to get through this. And at one point I'm laying there and I'm like, why am I doing this? Why is this happening? Like, what is compelling me to do this? But I'm also half exhilarated. Like, what are they going to do to me? But we're laying there and there's another guide and he turns out the lights. It's almost pitch black. They blacked out the windows and this, I don't know how to describe the music that came out of these speakers, but it was a new wave meets like

Enya, but sort of with a Barry White sensibility. Rob, please find the soundtrack immediately. Oh yeah, I have it on my iPod. We're good. Sail away, sail away, sail away. Lower voice this time. Sail away, sail away, sail away. Oh yeah.

Barry White. And then he walks around the room and just starts saying shit. I don't even know what he's saying. He's like, but he's got a very deep voice. It was something about align yourself with the universe. You can feel the waves. The waves are pulsing through your body, feel it in your pelvis and like feel free to moan if you want to moan. And I'm clearly not moaning, but it's fun.

Like the beats are going and everything's chilling. So I'm just riding that wave, right? And he walks around and he talks for a little while. I don't even remember how long it was. And then silence, lights go up, everyone gets up and starts talking like nothing happened. And I stayed there probably for like an hour, hour and a half, hung out with the people and then left. I have since found out that there's a concept of a cosmic orgasm that you are supposed to have through sensual meditation, but it's supposed to sexually align you with the Elohim, which I think is

really weird. Like, why do you want to fuck your gods? And that's what it says. So I did not have a cosmic orgasm, but I don't want to take that away from anyone who actually did. But I'm also not figuring out why this aligns to what Rael is teaching or whatever. All very valid questions, Wookie. We'll be right back when cosmic orgasms make way for human cloning.

What a pitch. Wow, that's a cliffhanger if I ever stood on a cliff and hanged. Tyler, we love Quince so much at this point we should just start working there. Yeah, I mean honestly, I could pretty much lead a Quince seminar. Quince is sure enough slowly taking over my closet. Cashmere sweaters, washable silk tops, my organic cotton sweaters, all from Quince. Yeah, and let's not forget my performance joggers. I mean they are soft.

I've kind of started referring to them as my formal wear. Is that wrong? I respect that. And here's why we're obsessed, guys, because Quince works directly with top factories. So everything is 50 to 80% off less than other brands because they cut out the middle man. Which is great because I want to dress like I have my life together without spending my entire bank account. Exactly. And they don't just do clothes, bedding, home goods, jewelry. My bed is basically a Quince showroom now, guys.

Yeah, I can confirm. She's one decorative sham pillow away from needing an intervention. It's called Affordable Luxury, Tyler, and you can get in on it, too. Give yourself the luxury you deserve, guys, with Quince. Go to quince.com slash cult for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince.com slash cult to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash cult. A true crime podcast. It got me upset because this is someone's kid and someone knows she's gone. That takes a different approach. It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Focusing on the communities affected by life-shattering crimes.

It made news throughout the entire region that these two people had been shot while they slept in such a safe community. To give a new perspective on the devastation crimes can cause. It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town. Featuring cases from quiet towns to bustling cities and interviewing the people closest to the case. My first thought was that it's an unusual location for us to have a homicide. Listen to the True Crime podcast, City Confidential,

and step beyond the yellow tape to learn just how far a crime can reach. There are certain cases in the history of Boston that I think sort of define the city. I think this is one of them. New episodes of the City Confidential podcast are available every Thursday, available wherever you get your podcasts.

So now Wookie has attended the central meditation. And again, Marina, she just keep calling and Chris is calling and everybody's calling. And then again, Marina's calling me, Chris is calling me, we're talking, we're chilling. Marina's constantly leaving me voicemails. I'm like, God, here it is. And all the Rayallians are in my phone, even back then, 2003, the clunky ass phones.

So they're literally starting to bug me. And I'm like, I don't know, whatever. And this is the kicker. I get a call from Marina and it goes to voicemail and I listen to her message and she's like, Jared, if you ever gone to anything that we do, this is the thing to come to. My mother is going to be in town. That was a terrible French accent, sorry. And then I get a call from Chris.

He's like, dude, did you talk to Marina? And he's like, you need to go out with them. I was like, what about you? He's like, I'm not gonna be able to make it. I'm gonna be working late at school, but you need to go to this. And so I call Marina back and she says, my mom is in town and it would be an honor if you would join us.

And I'm like, okay, whatever. And then Chris calls me back and he's like, I got the feeling that you don't understand why this is important. As it turns out, her mother, and this is where we get to the meat, is Brigitte Boisselier. This woman testified in Congress in front of George Bush, claiming to have cloned the first human being, Baby Eve. And they were talking about the ethics of cloning and that it was good. You can Google this shit. Joining us in our studio and testifying on the hill today

is Brigitte Boisselier, who is scientific director for a private company called Clone Aid. Very, very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born. She was born yesterday at 1155. The baby girl called Eve was born yesterday in Hollywood, Florida. The parents are happy and I hope that you remember them when you talk about this baby.

Not like a monster. But so far the scientists at Clonate have refused to identify the parents or provide a picture of the baby. And Marina, the last thing she said on our phone call was, please bring your girlfriend, I would love to meet her. And I'm like, that shit ain't gonna fucking happen. But I called her and I'm like, okay, hear me out. Marina's mother is the woman who supposedly cloned the first human being and they testified

in front of Congress and we're going to this fancy restaurant in downtown Chicago, do you wanna go? And there was a pause on the line for a while and then I get no fucking way. restaurant downtown Chicago, do you want to go?" And there was a pause on the line for a while and then I get, no fucking way. And so at that point, she absolutely wanted to go. She thought it was cool. Like she had bought into this.

Mind you at the time, this group was all over the media. Even Saturday Night Live parodied them. Last Saturday, CloneNade, a group that believes life on Earth was created by aliens, claimed that they had cloned the first human baby. Here to defend that claim is Clonade president, Brigitte Boisselier, and the founder of the Raellean cult, a man known as Raelle.

Thank you, Tina. You're welcome. Now, your group claims to have the first successfully cloned baby. That's right Tina and she's just adorable. Her name is Eve. So Wookie saw Bridget on TV but now it was time for an in-person meeting. We met at this fancy schmancy restaurant in downtown Chicago.

And I remember getting there and it being very dark and seeing her for the first time. And I'd seen her on video and she was very beautiful, very quiet, but she kissed my hand when I met her. And we go and we sit down with them and I start to bring up like baby Eve like immediately, you know, and she's like, I cannot talk about that. And Marina's like, maybe it's not best to bring that up. And I'm like, why? You know, I want to, but

Evie's just like nudging me in the ribs like, just shut the fuck up. And I'm like, but this is the woman, like this is the chance. But I did bite my tongue. And I'm like, but this is the woman. Like this is the chance. But I did bite my tongue, I'm ashamed to say. I sold out and I said, I'm very impressed with you. I'm impressed with your work. She is a medical doctor. She's impressive. And the way she talked to the press is really interesting and very compelling.

She has her shit. She has her credentials. So just so everyone knows, there is no proof that a baby was actually cloned. Obviously, most everyone believes it was a hoax. Now, this is a coincidence because about a month ago, I read a great stat about cloning. Of course you did in your great stats weekly newsletter. It's monthly now. It used to be weekly.

Yeah, it's in Harper's magazine. So I had to go find it and I dug it up. And what did it say? It said that the portion of American women who say they would probably or definitely clone themselves if given the opportunity, one in 10. What about you, Liz? Would you be the one in 10 women

that would clone themselves? Sort of weird. Like, to do what? I need a yes or no answer, Liz? Would you be the one in ten women that would clone themselves? Sort of weird. Like, to do what? I need a yes or no answer, Liz. So I can watch her, like, the way I shampoo my hair because they don't get to, like, see that? That is... That's precisely why women wouldn't clone themselves because they couldn't give a good answer why they would do it. The amount of men that would clone themselves? Every 61. One in four pretty solid

Quite a lot more why a male I just want someone to play catch with really I saw I mean if I always had my buddy there with the same same sense of humor Wanted to watch the same thing as I did took out the trash someone who could actually clean the garage They just wanted themselves standing in front of themselves and go nice dick. That's a great package. But the conversation was good again. It turned to me and who I was and, you know,

asked questions to Evie who was like over the moon. Like the transformation with her was just fucking hilarious. You know, we're talking and then this guy comes in and sits down next to Brigitte and Brigitte kisses him on the lips and they sit down and like, oh, boyfriend. And, you know, he was really cool looking like tall, slender, wearing all black and like long hair. Just looked like a badass guy. I think he was Sheryl Crow's guitarist. I'm like, oh my God, that's so cool. He's like, yeah, I got a show tonight. But yeah, I mean we're sitting there and I'm asking him about like fucking guitar and that's badass.

What's it like to be in a band? How's Cheryl? Like, is she awesome? You know, like just all this stuff. Yeah, just for the record I can answer that. Oh, here we go. Cheryl Crowe is in my next movie coming out soon. Oh god. Oh, you want me to plug it? No, no, there's nothing to plug yet because it's not out soon. Oh god. Oh, you want me to plug it? No, no, there's nothing to plug yet because it's not out yet. I'm just saying it because I'm trying to be cool but

also I do want to state, I do want to state that Cheryl Crowe is actually fantastic. She's incredibly nice. She's a genuine human being. She had an absolute crush on me naturally. I feel bad for her but I assume that at some point she'll write a great song about it. Oh, excuse me. Sorry, hold on. Hello? Oh, hey Cheryl bad for her, but I assume that at some point she'll write a great song about it. Oh, excuse me. Sorry, hold on. Hello? Oh, hey Cheryl.

Oh yeah, you didn't have a crush on Tyler? Okay, cool. I'll let our listeners know. Thanks for calling. But regardless, that was a revelatory night as though the others weren't as well, but I feel myself getting sort of swept into all of these events. I think it was after that dinner and after the adrenaline calmed down. I sort of realized that I'm not really doing this for any positive reason with my life.

While it's fun, it's also off and there's something that's not right. And there are some shady things going on. I think the most is that there is absolutely brainwashing. There is absolutely taking of money at every point. Basically coercing people into giving money and I know that people have lost their fortunes. Donating to these embassies to welcome the Elohim back to earth. And I didn't want to be responsible for it being additive to that. And I think it was kind of scary to realize that I felt like I could. I could go that way.

I could continue to hang out with them and I think I was at least heads up enough even as a 23-year-old to be like, maybe get out while I'm on a high. But of course, unsurprisingly, these phone calls persisted. I'm getting called four to five times a week by this woman and at this point it's not flattering anymore. It's just like, God fucking stop calling. I made the decision at that point that I don't know that I'm going to answer their calls anymore.

I consciously made the decision at that point that I'm over it. I'm done. It was very hard not returning those calls because I listened to every message. It's like, here I am again, we miss you, I want to talk to you. And I felt terrible. I felt absolutely terrible. But, you know, by that point, I don't know why I didn't give in, but I didn't give in. And I didn't call back. And eventually the calls, after like three weeks, finally started tapering off. Fortunately, Wookie narrowly missed full indoctrination and was able to get out before it was too late. But that doesn't mean this experience didn't linger.

I guess at the end of the day, I did find myself finding a family with them. I knew them. I knew their kids' names. I knew all about Chris and his family and it was sort of like a fucked up family. I mean, it became just something to do and something to be, and people to be with who accepted me and, like I said, chillin' with the cool kids. Like I said, it gave me those endorphins. It gave me that high.

It gave me that feeling of really doing something fun, really doing something purposeful, working toward a cause, being together. You know, I did miss it and I did miss her. I miss those people. Had I spent more time around these people and gotten to love them, I don't know how much of a choice I would have had. There's always that nagging curiosity about what if I had continued and would it have still remained cool? I don't know that I had ever really seriously considered an occult by the actual definitions until, you know,

I started doing this exploration these years later. It's always with me and it has been, you know, a thing that I will always think about and I will always wonder. Finally, I'm at a point in my life where I can come to peace with it and realize that it happened. It was fun, it was ridiculous, it was scary, it was all of those things.

But I feel like being able to own it in a creative space sort of gives me some control over it. While I do look back on that with some joviality, there is a definite dark tinge to it because we know what they are and we know what they tinge to it because we know what they are and we know what they were trying to do and we know what they have been doing and they're still there. Yes, the group is still going today with tens of thousands of followers. Now in addition to all you've heard today, cloning babies, skull removal, etc.

This group has been accused of coercing followers into free love and sexual submission with reports of Rael himself taking advantage of his status as the leader. Shocker. He reportedly targets young women, some even minors, grooming them as, quote, Rael's angels who are expected to serve and accompany him. The group also encourages the sexualization of children, with Rael advocating for, quote, sexual awakening at a very young age. And of course, the cult favorites of controlling followers financially, socially and

emotionally. OK, so if anyone was still on the fence about whether or not this was a cult, I think we can go ahead and call it CULT! Aliens or not, this was a classic manipulation, control and abuse wrapped in a shiny UFO-shaped package. Wookie, thanks for taking us on this absolutely wild ride. You've given us a firsthand look at how easy it is to get swept up into something that, from the outside, seems completely unthinkable. And for those of you listening, remember, cults don't always look like doomsday bunkers

and robed figures chanting in the woods. Sometimes they look like friendly, good-looking people handing you a pamphlet in the rain. We'll be back next week with a guest who, well, to be honest, sent an email and kind of put me in my place. So I was listening to one particular episode with a guest who was telling her story about being biracial in Orange County. And I love the little factoids that Tyler gives

and it's always cute and fun. And so I'm just waiting that he's gonna really get into the racist history of Orange County. Like I grew up calling Anaheim, Klanaheim. So I hit him up like you're talking about the corny music scene. But not mention the KKK having a deep stronghold there. He acknowledged that.

He definitely missed on that one. We also want to say that Was I in a Cult is a proud financial sponsor of Reclaiming Autonomy through the Written Word Symposium, which is a powerful gathering for survivors of spiritual, religious, and cultic abuse. In this forum, which is held on March 29th, it's open to you all. You can experience the integrative power of writing as perhaps the single most accessible tool for healing and recovery. Through sponsorship, we're helping to provide scholarships for cult survivors.

So join us in supporting this vital event. It's also very affordable to attend. We will have a link in our show notes. That's our show everyone. Thank you for listening to our show. We'll see you all next week. Please continue with it Liz, why not? You've turned down that road,

you may as well keep driving. Was I in a Cult is written, produced, hosted by me Liz. Alf Ayacuzzi. And me, Tyler, Mark for Mark. Me some Nanu Nanu. Sound design and edit by Rob Kangen Kodos, para. For those who don't know, those are the aliens on The Simpsons.

Abortions for all. Assistant editor is Greta, For those who don't know, those are the aliens on The Simpsons. Abortions for all! Assistant editor is Greta, the great Gazoo Stromquist. You want to know? No, don't jump. You don't know who that is, do you? I don't. You want to know? How can you just move on without... I don't want to listen to you anymore. On the Flintstones, you remember the Flintstones, you've seen the Flintstones. No, what are the Flintstones?

But they had like a floating green alien that would sometimes appear to only Fred and Barney. And he was kind of sarcastic. That's the great Gazoo. Our executive producer is Steven Yoda. Labrum. All right, that's it. Let's get the heck out of here. Thank you.

Getting out of here. Beaming up. So here is Wookie and now it's time for potluck with the aliens. Incidentally the term potluck derives from the late 16th century. It means luck of the pot. And basically diners would get whatever happened to be in the pot that day without a planned menu. Liz? Liz?

Because I wasn't finished. Is it my line? You know what? I just had a really long dream. You mocked me. But listeners are going to take that to their next potluck dinner and use it and be just praised. Just showing up to the potluck with the worst potato salad you've ever seen and telling that story. Wow, what a guest.

That's the one thing missing from their life. The origination of the word potluck. Someone's gonna use that at a potluck and if you do, I'd like an email thanking me. I don't ask for much folks, just an email, just some credit where it's due. As long as they then followed up with you must listen to the best podcast in the world, I'm fine with them using your recruiting tactics to get into our cult. Fair enough. That's fair. That's what they'll use. They'll say, oh my God, what a great fact.

Where did you learn that? And they'll be like, oh, coincidentally, there's a great podcast called Was I in a Cult? Oh, because you told me I'll know never to fucking listen. Thank you. Oh, do they have other dumb useless facts? Actually, that's what most of the show is. Actually, 45 to 50% of the show is dumb useless facts.

Derived from the late 1970s. Early 1970s. Do not make yourself younger than you are. All right.