Was I In A Cult? - The Wolf of Wall Street: “A Cult of One”

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

Dr. Nadine Macaluso joins us today to discuss our first of its kind on this show… a cult of one. Who exactly was her cult leader? None other than “The Wolf of Wall Street,” her ex-husband, Jordan Belfort.  In the movie adaptation of Jordan’s book, “The Wolf of Wall Street,” Dr. Nadine was portrayed by Margot Robbie and had no say in how her life was portrayed. Well, today Dr. Nadine is here to share the truth behind her picture perfect life. On the outside she had beauty, wealth, the doting husband, and two wonderful kids. But today she shares the truth about what was going on behind closed doors: the isolation, the loss of self, the abuse, the control, the manipulation and the gaslighting that kept her in a haze of confusion and pain. But, like every guest on this show, she shares the moment she finally found the strength and courage to walk away for good.  Now a respected therapist, Dr. Nae emphasizes the importance of therapy in her healing process and destigmatizing the experiences of victims of cult leaders or pathological lovers. A Brooklyn gal at heart, Dr. Nae is as real as they get and was an absolute joy to have on the show.  _____ Follow Dr. Nae: Instagram: @therealdrnadine / TikTok: @drnaelmft Buy Dr. Nae's book HERE  Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail]  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys)  Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com 

The thing is that I think when you join a cult and this is how I felt in my relationship, it's like, oh, I'm going to be safe here. This is my people or this is my person. Not even knowing it's the most dangerous place to be, but there's this pseudo feeling of safety till the mask falls or the floor falls, right? Welcome to Was I In a Cult. I'm Liz Ayakousy. And over on this side of the table, I'm Tyler Missom. And look, when we started this show, when we first created it, a lot of people asked, all right,

you're going to have enough stories of cults? Are there enough cults out there? And the answer, of course, is yes. Yes. And then some. Sadly, there are many, many cults in the world. And as many of our listeners understand, cults are far more pervasive than most realized.

And perverted as well. And permitted, permitted, permitting it. Particicular. Right. And once you understand what constitutes a cult, you can see how really true all those p-words are. But the thing about cults that sometimes is still missed is their relatability factor. Right. Many would still say, I would never join a cult.

No. They're just for desperate Lemmings, glassy-eyed individuals following along in a line. Weirdos, you guys, but today's episode, it may be our most relatable episode to date, because it's a relationship cult. A one-on-one cult. And it's a great way to show just how relatable, coercion, manipulation, and indoctrination really are.

And if you can understand an abusive relationship, you can understand a cult. Yeah, I think it was our guest, Dwight Richards, who said, a cultic relationship is when you're seeking love and approval from the person who is abusing you. I think we can all understand that and relate to that. That could be a parent, a teacher, coach, a podcast host. Wow, we're so in sick with our, we just gaslit each other, right? And today's gasp we felt was the perfect one-on-one cult to have on the show. And her name is Dr. Nadine Macaluso.

Macaluso, you know, I have some distant second cuss. I do. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, th, I. Oh, I. Oh, I. Oh, I. Oh, I. Oh, I. Oh, I. Oh, I'm. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. A. A. A, I th. th. A, I th. A, th. A, th. A, th. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. Macaluso. Macaluso, you know I have some distant second cuss, I do. She married a Sicilian, my dad's Sicilian. I think there maybe some long distance relations there. I'd like to think there was some kind of Italian turf war between the Ayacouses and Macalus. I'm picturying out. It's called East Side Story. Right. Fighting over Caprize and Keanti. She. She. She. She. She. She. She. She is is the thaaaeaeaseaseaseaseaseasease. She is the tha. She is tha. She is tha. She is tha. She is now. She is now. She is now. She is now. She is now. She is now. She is now. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I writing it. Fighting over Caprize and Keonti.

She is now a therapist who specializes in trauma bonds and abusive relationships. Dr. Ney is the ex-wife to the wolf of Wall Street, Jordan Belfert. My name is Jordan Belfort. My name is Jordan Belfard. The year I turned 26, I made 4949 million, which really pissed me off because it was three shy of a million a week.

Yes, guys, that Wolf of Wall Street, the one played by Mr. Leonardo DiCaprio, perhaps you've heard of him, in perhaps Scorceasies' most famous film, the Wolf of the the Wolf Wall Street. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm gonna whoa, I'm gonna, that is certainly not Martin Scorsese's most famous film. I mean, Mean Streets, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Casino. Oh, Contrere, Mon, Gen Xer, the Wolf of Wall Street just so happens to be Martin Scorcei's highest grossing film, both a commercial hit as well as critically........... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, the wo, the wolf, th, the wolf, th, that is that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, th, th, th, th, th, th, the w w w w w w w w w w w w wo, the wo, the wo, the wo, the wolf, the wolf, the wolf the wolf the wolf the wolf the wolf thi-s, the wolf the wolf the wolf the wolf the wolf thiolfe' thiolfe, thiolfe, thiolfe, thiolfe, thi Martin Scorsese's highest grossing film, both a commercial hit as well as critically received a gross, guess how much, Tyler?

$506 million. $406 million during its worldwide theatrical run. And I'm going to Tyler Mesamearass on that one too, Liz, because adjusted for inflation on box office, his most successful film is the departed. How do you just, who does that? Who adjust for people on the internet? That's who, I didn't do that in my head.

I'm just saying there's inflation adjusted or cost of ticket prices. And the departed is still his highest ranking, although probably not his most famous, that would be Raging Bull in Masterpiece. But it might be his most popular. Among douchebros and internet memes. Yes. The movie, The Wolf of Wall Street, was based on the memoir that Jordan wrote himself while, spoiler alert, he was in jail.

And today's guest was portrayed by the hideous Margot Robbie in the film. Whatever happened to her, did she ever, she's never really done anything since then. I think she's due. I heard she did like some Barbie, something, I don't know. Sounds like a flop. Ryan Gosling was the lead, so. But today isn't all about the flash and fun and drugs and money. Now today we get to hear the real story from a woman who had no say in a movie about a huge part of her life. So with that, we're happy to welcome to the show Dr. Ney. Take it away. Dr. Ney. So what did you think when I was like, I want you to be on a cult show?

What was your first reaction? Oh, I mean, like you say, a trauma bond's, right, it's a cult of one. So it does make sense, completely. Yeah. When did you realize it was a cult of one? I mean, not too many years later until I really could reflect back on my situation with my ex-husband and then of course all the research that I've done when you're in a trauma bond and I've never been in a big cult, but it seems to me a lot of it's about mind control. And coercion and love bombing and manipulation.

And grooming. It takes a while to get out of something like that. And I think that's what people don't really understand. So we're going to digest that today. So give us a little background of where you grew up, your upbringing, what your nuclear family was like. I grew up in Brooklyn in the 1970s which was an amazing time to grow up on the streets of Brooklyn, right? No internet, 50 kids on the

street playing all day till the lights went down. It was the best and parents couldn't helicopter, right? Because they were all working. And I was raised by a single mom because she divorced my dad when I was six. And she was very into psychology and just really allowed us to process our feelings and taught us about compassion. It was a great, unchaotic, peaceful upbringing. Your dad was not in the picture anymore.

He was really what you would call a Disneyland dad. He would literally come and take us to Disney. And then we all the hard work out to my mother. You know, in the beginning when she left my dad, she was on welfare. But again, everybody in Brooklyn was the same. So, you know, as a child, I really didn't know the difference, honestly.

I went to high school in Coney Island, their their their,, 4,000 kids. I took two trains to get to high school every day, but I loved it. Really I supported myself from the time of 1718 and I was working from 9-5 net field department, the old department, in their customer service department and I was going to 5 Net, the old department store Barney's in their customer service department. And I was going to school, working. It was insane hours. And then finally, people kept telling me to want to model, do you want a model?

And I needed the money. And I did a lot of commercials. So that's how I made a lot of my money. So I was having a ball, just dating all the crazy rich playboys in the city. And just having fun, going to Studio 54 with my best friends, dancing to Madonna. We'd take the train and have $10 to get in and be like, okay, somebody's gonna pay for our drinks. I think we used to have this ridiculous drink a white Russian. Like who would even drink that now? I forgot I think it's Kaluin milk. That's what we used to drink at the clubs. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah what condition my condition was in? Yeah, who would even drink that now? You know who would? The dude the dude that that would? Yeah of course I do man.'re both just like shaking our head. Nobody can

see we're just duding it out over here with our head shit. El Dutorino. You're the big Lebowski. I'm the dude. Actually in high school, stupid story, we had a drinking game where we'd watch the Big Labowski and every time the dude would drink a white Russian so would we? He drinks a lot. That guy drinks a lot of white Russians. Hey man, I've got a beverage here. Did you know the white Russian was first invented? I'm going to Tyler Missim you right now. Tyler me. By not actually a Russian, but an old Irish guy who ran out of Bailey. That's not true. That is not true. No, that's not true. But the truth is the white Russian wasion was the white Russian the white Russian the white Russian was the white Russian was the white Russian was the white Russian was the white Russian was in the white Russian was in the white Russian was in the white Russian was an evolution the white Russian was an evolution the white Russian was an evolution the white the white the white the white the white the white. was an evolution of what, Tyler, the black Russian, which also was not invented by a Russian, but a Belgian bartender, Gustav Tops, in 1949 at the Hotel

Metropol in Brussels. So the black Russian is... Just like the white Russian only less racist. Nice, very nice. It's without the milk is what I'm going to say. Correct. Liz with the facts today, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know if I like it so much You're not into it? No, kind of makes me uneasy. Makes me feel like an alcoholic at a bar having to make us some white Russians? I wear a lot of hats, and one of them is a little bartender hat. Do you have the ingredients for a white russian?

Do you know what the ingredients are? I'm a sophisticated gentleman. Of course I have Kalua and vodka and cream. Okay, go ahead. It's 11 o'clock. It's 5 o'clock somewhere. Well think about it. It's coffee and cream. It really is. It really is.

Okay, let's do it. I mean, it's noon somewhere, right? Pause for white Russian making. We'll be back in a moment. You know what pressure is, Tyler? Yeah, it's the David Bowie, queen song, 1981. Actually, that's under pressure, but it's the same thing. No it's being at a restaurant and having to order perfect meal. You know what that's why I

prefer buffets. You get all the food you want. Sweet potato pie with egg rolls, cider blocks and bagels. I just vomited. Choices. It's what the indecisive desire. And it's the same with my hemp. I like a smorgishborg of choices depending upon my mood. Which is why we love via hemp. Yep, via hemp is a company dedicated to harnessing the natural benefits of hemp to create high quality wellness products. From setting the mood in the bedroom, hubba hubba, hubbah, to chilling out after a long day, via tha. Vaya has something for you. Please never say set the mood in in the bedroom, hubah-hubbah again. Can I just say hubbubah? Sure.

Okay, good. You can experience full spectrum of benefits from cannabis and hemp products with a microdose of THC, which just gives you that little boosts without compromising your responsibility. And look, if THHCh-he isn't for you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to thi, to to toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too isn't for you, you can take full advantage of their CBD line, Hubbah-hubbah, with products designed for sleep, focus, and energy that will keep you going all summer long or all night long, hubbubbah. The other day I had a low dose, which is my favorite of their gummies and... You finally saw Jesus.

Correct. How's he looking? He must be using Pantene Pro V or something because it is silky and sandles toga the whole thing. Yeah. Looking good. Totally on brand. So if you're over 21, head to via hemp.com and use the code in a cult to receive 15% off, that's VIIA hemp.com and use code in a cult at checkout And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show. Tell them we sent you and enhance your everyday with Vaya. I gotta go. It's Fratata and Inchalata Night at the Buffet.

You want to prep a plate? Absolutely not. Thank you. I'm going to sit here with my bio. Hey there, Tyler, I'm such a sweet fella, aren't you, boy? Are you okay over there, Liz? Did you have a stroke? What's happening? I've been playing June's Journey and I'm now stuck in the 1920s, eh? Oh, June's Journey!

Look, if you haven't heard of June's journey, people, you're missing out on some serious fun. I love to play it at night alone in bed, and I thaken I then I then I then I then I thine, and I thine, and I thine, thine, thine, thine, thine, thine, thine, I thine, I thine, I'm thine, I'm thine, I'm the, I'm to to to the, I'm to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, I's, I'm th, I'm th, I'm th, I's th, I's th, I's th, I's the th. th. th. th. th. th. the, I'm the, I'm the. thean, I'm thean, I'm thean, thean, thean, toooooooooooooo'e. toooo' too'ean, toean, I'm to relaxing. It's a fun hidden object game where you're solving a murder mystery with detailed, glamorous scenes of the 1920s. I also play it while Tyler's anytime he's talking. It's the base sneeze. It's a real business name. Look in every chapter on Revells more secrets, more drama. It's a mystery lover's dream. Plus, you get to customize your very own luxurious estate island and who doesn't love a little 1920s real estate? Whether you're searching for clues in New York or piecing together scandals in Paris, June's journey keeps you hooked. So join June Parker and help her solve the mystery. Discover your inner detective today when you download June's journey for free on iOS and Android.

Oh but I already have Tyler and I have to say it's the cat's pajamas. I'm just dandy darling, thank you. Ain't that the Barry? She's just the real schema. Let's go. Quite ready to move on from the 1920s. Don't take any wooden nickel nickels. Don't take any wooden nickels if you know what I'm saying. We are back with white Russian in hand. You hear that tingle-changle? Is this good time to do my Russian accent for rest of the episode? That's really good. Did I taste? Yes, you should.

It's really good. This might be my first. Your first white Russian ever? I don't, I'm not really a cocktail, white Russian drinker, but... But it won't be my last. Let's thia thia. But it's thia. yeah. All right, so here's to 11 a.m. drinking. We hope the rest of the day goes well. And the rest of the episode, and the West,

and the other thorough, they don't have it. This is a part of the episode where we put the clip with Matthew McConaughey, ordering way the game plan. You're going to bring us two absolute white Russians. You know how I like them, straight up. And then precisely seven and one half minutes after that, you're going to bring us two more.

Then two more after that, every five minutes until one of us passes the fuck out. Excellent strategy, sir. I'm good with water for now, though. Thank you. This is first day on Wall Street. Give him time. So so far Nadine is living her best life. Living it up in New York City is an early 20-something.

Sipping white Russians like we? Model. So just how did she meet her soon-to-be call leader? So in the movie, the Wolf of Wall Street, it shows Jordan throwing this massive party, right? And Nadine goes to it with her boyfriend at the time. Jordan's married, but in the most respectful way, he completely blows off his wife. And by respectful, you mean?

Disrespectful, actually is what I mean. Here's my friend Naomi. Hi. Naomi. Nice to meet you. Naomi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet. You've got an awesome place here. I don't think I've ever been in a house this big before. Oh, really? Yeah.

Beautiful beach out there. Blair, how long? Hi, Blair. Hi, but nice. I'm the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. th. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. th. the. theat. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. th. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've life? No, I've never been on a jet ski. No, I don't know. How many times are gonna ask her? She's never been on a jet ski. I don't know, I might ask her a couple more times. And here is Dr. Ney's retelling of that exact experience. So I was dating this guy as the movie depicts, and we're gonna go this party and to go this party and they.

to this party and just like the movie shows, there was a party, not a big party like it shows, but a smaller party. And we'd walk in and I don't know anybody and everybody was acting really weird. And I couldn't understand why. And now I found out they were on quailudes. Jordan and I really didn't have that much of an interaction at all because I left because like somebody exposed himself to me and I felt so so embarrassed at 22 I felt so terribly uncomfortable and I just said to my boyfriend we got to get the hell out of here these people are crazy. We left. What happened was that he after seeing me he made somebody $15,000 in the stock market to get them to take me to meet him. Right. What happened was that he couldn't he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he. He he. He was he. He was he. He was he. He was he, he, he, he, he, th thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi the the the the the the the the to to to theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeethe stock market to get them to take me to meet him. Because he couldn't call me, he was married, right?

Red flag. So he said to this woman who knew me, tell Nadine you want to take her to dinner and I'm just going to to their to dinner with her, and then he just showed up. Redder, Flagg. When he drove me home, I was like, does this guy like me? The next day I was having a party, and so I come home, and there's a huge truck waiting to deliver like 1,200 square feet of flowers into my apartment. And I was like, whoa, so my friends were like, did you sleep?

I said, sleep with them. I didn't even know he was gonna basically show up. You know, and then I didn't see him. I went to Chicago to model. And then when I came back around Christmas, we were working out at the same gym in the city. And then that was it. But Jordan was married. So how did that make you feel? Well, okay, so what he said was that he was getting divorced, he was separated, he had an

apartment in the city, which he did. So at 22 I was like, okay, yeah, so the love bombing is so seductive, right? Just so much over-the-top admiration and we're soulmates, we're going to be together forever. You're perfect for me and gifts and trips. You know, nothing, like nothing I had ever seen before. Right? I had dated guys that were successful, but this was a different level. And it feels good to have someone be so obsessed with you, until it doesn't. That's exactly right, until it doesn't. Until they start to get possessive and tell you,

you don't need to work, but I do like to work. So that feels a little weird. But I'm like, oh, OK, maybe he just wants to take care of me so generous, right? We fell madly in love. And then about three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three three the the the to to to to to to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me, I I I I I I I I'm to me, I'm to me, I'm to me, I'm to me, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm to me, to me, to me, to to to to me, to me, to me, to me, to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me, I I I I I I I I I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm to me, I'm to me, I'm to me, to me, to me, toe, toe, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe, to me, to me, to take care of me so generous, right? We fell madly in love, and then about three months into it, he said to me, I'm not going to date you if you're not gonna marry me. And I was like, wait, I'm 23 years old, I don't want to get married.

My parents got divorced when I was six. I don't want to get married. For some reason, I made some crazy bowed. I was tha tha, I was tha, I was tha, I was tha, I was to to to toe, I was toe, I was tooe, I was tooe, I was toozyn't, I'm too, I'm too, I'm too, I'm too, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, too, told, told, to, to, to, too, too, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to me, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, today, today, tooanananananananananananeded, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, didn't want to get married till I was 30. But whatever, that was in alignment with my values. But he was not like that. And then the goalposts kept moving. Then I'm not going to marry you if you're not going to have children. And I would argue with him and try to state my case and express my needs, but I was no match for him. one rarely is to the sociopathic cult leader. So I just started to rationalize a lot of the red flags

that I saw, especially the ones about pressuring me when to get married and when to have children, because those are very big decisions. And so I would get extraordinarily angry and frustrating. But again, I was no match for him. His rage was like a tsunami and then I would just Convince myself and be like, oh, he just loves me so much Let's just let it go right let that go

The constant justification of the cult leader's behavior all day long in these calls guys. What was the first thing he did that was the first thing he did that was? The first thing he really did where I saw it was we got engaged in front of my favorite fast food restaurant Rolling Roaster in Cheapset Bay. Are you married me? Oh my God. Is that a yes? Are you sure? Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And we were going on the Concord to Paris to celebrate.

So here we on this beautiful trip, having a beautiful time, going to the best restaurants. But then we start to get into an argument about the whole child's thing. And he ripped a phone out of the wall. And I was like, oh boy. I've never seen anger or rage like this. And now I'm engaged, right? But that act of violence certainly shut me up, you know, stopped me from expressing myself.

And so that was like the first chip of the loss of self. Yes, because that domination and intimidation is part of the coercive control. But again, I had no idea about any of these terms, what these words were. You know, my mom, she took me to lunch, right? But when I got engaged, and she looked to me and said, you know, you don't have to do this. You really don't. And I was like, but I love them. So, you know, that went that went that went that went that went that went that went that that that thi thi thi thi tho. thi thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to be, to be, to be, to be, too, to. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. to. the the the the the the the the they. the the th. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to, th. to, th. too, th. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. to, to, to, to, to. them. So, you know, that went out the window. My dad, of course, was fine with it.

He was like, okay, great, this is great. He had all the power and all the money. He had the Midas touch. What if I told you that I just walked away from a wonderful and very high profile fitness brand to pursue a more artistic life. What's up? I'm Kendall Tool. And I'm Gately Alex.

And we are so excited to share our new podcast wholeheartedly with Kendall and Gatel. The two of us have taken the uncharted path and felt we were at a great place or at least a pivot point in our lives to share our biggest tragedies and triumphs. So that everyone here th th th is th th the the the the the the the the thi the thi thioue thiou thus thus thus thus thus the the the the tho-a tho-a tho-a to the, the, to to to to to to to to to to to to share to share to to share to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the, the, the, the. their the. their their their their their their their their thea. their thea. thea. thea'eatl-a'eat-ups. And that's from two people who have really been through it. Good Lord, yes. We're both still navigating life, and we want you to come along on the journey, so we can stay in the fight to overcome whatever BS is thrown our way. It's not easy out here, but we'll be walking and talking with you through building careers, self-worth, relationships. Oh, and get some good laughs, please. Or tears. There's tears. That's true. There's always tears. That's true. All with our hearts on the line.

So if this sounds additive to your journey, we are here for you. Join us every week on Wholeheartedly with Pendlingo and Galee. Wholeheartedly will be available July 17. Listen and subscribe. Where you tho. tho. their thou, their th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their hearts their hearts. their hearts their hearts. their hearts. their hearts. their hearts. their hearts their hearts their hearts their hearts their hearts their hearts their hearts their hearts. their hearts their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their tou. tou. tou. toooooooo. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. so you know, I am going to be in Toronto for all our fans in Toronto and I know they're out there. I have two films at the Toronto International Film Festival, one of which premieres on the 12th. It's called Taking Care of Business. We're having a big ass screening at the Roy Thompson Arena, 1,800 people, and I'd love one of you or two of you to come. The tickets are like 50-60 bucks a piece, but I can give you two of them. First people that

message me on Patreon who are Patreon members can get two tickets to the show. You get to meet me and there's a celebrity who's going to be attending. I won't tell you who but it's a list. And guys a brush is included. A their. A their. A their. A their. A to be. A to be. A to be. to be. to be to be their. to be their. their. their. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be a to be a to be a to be to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a celebrity. to be a celebrity. to be a celebrity. to be a celebrity. to be a celebrity. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the. the. te. te. te. te. te. their. te. toe. the toe. toe. toe. toe. their. is included and you get to brush Tyler's hair. Or just run your fingers through it, really, because I don't want you to mess it up. Or yeah, just a little, you can take your hand and just sort of bob it. Squash. Squire, squanch the curls. September 12th, any of our Toronto fans, please message us on Patreon. I'd love to meet you. And Hulu is not a thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the sa thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th is a th is a thi. thi. th is th is th. th th th it's th it's th it's th it's th it's th it's th it's th it's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th is th is th is th is a th is a th is a th is a th is a thi thi thi that that that that that that that that the the the thea thea thea thea thea thea. thea. thea. the the the the the love to meet you. And... How's your white Russian? Not a sponsor, but Mary's selling this shit out of it.

Mmm. It's still good. It's just as good as the first sip. You're feeling it a little bit? I mean it is 11 in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm sipping it.

Yeah. Put it in your coffee, everybody. Just for the record, ladies gentlemen, Rob has finished his weight rush in. It's such a small little drink, and I'm not talking. So tell me, your wedding was gorgeous and perfect on the outside. Nah, but the wedding was something out of a fairy tale. With Naomi, my Duchess, me, her handsome duke in the Bahamas Ocean Club Our Castle. Yeah, not really, but yes. So I was pregnant, right, of course, even though I did have a miscarriage, and so we have 200 people at this beautiful hotel in Anguila, and

the night before our wedding he decides to be plastered. I'm like, are you kidding me? You made me get married. You've made me get pregnant and you can't even stay somewhat sober? And I remember getting to a huge fight with him. But you know, everybody's there and I'm like, okay, let me go, here comes the bride. I think I felt very, very, very, very sad and confused, but I remember feeling incredibly just full of despair, like with nowhere to go with it. And then we got married, and we went on our honeymoon, and everything was fine.

And he wants to move me out to Long Island. And I'm like, really? What am I going to do in the suburbs of 23 without any children? Again, right? And just like, okay, but how can I complain? He's buying me this 10,000 square foot home. Eventually taking her home to Long Island, where we bought a house, seven acres on the gold coast of Long Island,

the most expensive real estate in the world, with maids, cooks, landscapers, you tae. We even had two guards who worked in shifts, both named Rocco. It was heaven on earth. There was always like a bind of affection and love. The jewelry or the trips or the gifts or we would have a big fight and then there'd be a horse in my driveway because I used to left a horseback ride. Making men around the world feel less than everywhere.

Oh, we got a fight. I was kind of a dick. You know what I should get her? I don't know, man, like, get her some roses. Oh, I was thinking a horse. Yeah, horse. Oh, yeah, no, yeah. Go with your gut, man. You do you. You do you. That's, that would have gotten me out of a lot of trouble. Have a horse on hand. Just show up with a horse in the driveway. You know when life knocks you down Liz you just got to get back up on

the horse. What I always say. Rain it in me some rain it in. Was I in a cult? You know like a baby horse? Oh was I in a colt. Straight from the horse's mouth. Now you're just kicking a dead horse. Oh boy. All right, time to pony up and move on out. I vote nay on this entire. So I felt very isolated out in Long Island, but because he was really running a cult called Straton-Oakman, right? I mean, let's be real, that's total cult. And so then those people became my people. Yeah, I just, he's just like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I to, I to, I to, I to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to the the the total cult. And so then those people became my people. Yeah, I just, he's just like to question me out in suburbia

to hang out with his cult. Stratford Oakmont was a brokerage firm that gained infamy for its high-pressure sales tactics and fraudulent activities in the 1990s. It was founded by our main man Jordan Belfort and the firm made hundreds of millions of dollars through a scheme known as the pump and dump. A term stolen from breastfeeding women across the world, which by the way recently I've heard as a bit of a hope. We're going to need to do a little pumping and dumping after this white Russian. So you see, the firm's brokers, they would use aggressive sales tactics to promote stocks they they they owned they owned they owned they they owned their their their their their their their their their their their.auagee. Weau. Wea. their. thu. thu. thu, thu, thu, thoom. Ie, thu. Wea, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu. I've, th. I've, thu. I've, thu. I've, thu. I. I. I. I. I. I. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th..... I, th.. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I'm, te, te, te. I'm, te. I'm te. te. te. te.e.e.e.e.e.e. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. Wea. It's, te. It's, the firm's brokers, they would use aggressive sales tactics to promote stocks they owned or controlled, driving up the prices through exaggerated claims, and once the

stock prices were artificially inflated, the firm sold off its shares at a profit, causing the prices to crash and leaving investors with significant losses. God bless unfiltered capitalism. Eventually, Stratford-Oakmont was shut down by the authorities and Belfort, along with other executives faced legal consequences for their actions. He's a great public speaker, excellent public speaker, so he just could talk his way through anything and he was their poor-lives leader and they were making a lot of money. And they were all young. And from the outside looking in, being married to this mover and shaker would seem like Dr.

Ney had won the relationship lottery. If Instagram had been around back then, they would have all the external makings of hashtag couple goals. At the best dinner parties, I learned how to cook, I took wine classes, I took interior design classes because I'm like if I'm going the the the the I'm the I'm the I'm the I'm the I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going th I'm going the the the th. I'm going th. I'm th. I'm the th. th. thi. thi. thi. thoing thoing thoing. thoing. thoing. thoing. thiou. thiou. thi. Being thi. Being thi. Being thi. Being thi. Being thi. being being being being being being being th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I'm the thi. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm teeeeeeea. I'm tea. And theeeeea. And, thea. And, thea. And, the. And, the dinner parties, I learned how to cook, I took wine classes, I took interior design classes, because I'm like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna know. Is it a grape or a place that I'm buying? What sort of chair is this? But we all know what you see on Instagram isn't usually what's going on in real life.

What a fucking burden? And actually do some work besides swiping credit. fucking credit card all day? Huh? Because I can't keep track of your professions, honey, because last month you were a wine connoisseur, now you're an aspiring landscape architect. Let me get that right. Yeah, I mean, I definitely lost myself because I couldn't have any emotional needs, right? It was never about what I needed. If someone's dominating you and intimidating you, slowly but surely you just lose the things that are important to you because you because you have to lose to lose your to lose your to lose your the identity to lose the identity to lose the identity to lose the identity the identity to lose the identity the identity the identity to lose the identity the identity the identity the to the to the the to to to to to to to their, their, their, the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their lose the things that are important to you because you have to lose your identity to keep the identity with the couple. If you think about love, it's quality of connection and giving someone the space to be who they are, there's no space to be who I am there. But I think the secret that I kept from, let's say, our friends really was how deeply sad I was inside.

I don't even think that I could theoucest, really how sad and broken I felt. I was just like going through the motions. And I think I was able to really compartmentalize and keep that a secret from people close to me. And so what would happen if you questioned the leader, so to speak or spoke out or voiced your needs? Oh, yeah, a tsunami of rage. A tsunami ofnah of th th th th th th thia th th leader so to speak or spoke out or voiced your needs. Oh yeah, a tsunami of rage. A tsunami of rage. Don't you dare? Who the fuck do you think you are? Bubah? You know, just that sort of stuff. I'm gonna do whatever I want. You're not going to tell me what to do. Well, he's controlling me, right? And I was like, no, I just don't want you to to to to and your head in the soup at dinner. Really, I'm not trying to be controlling here. His dad was very dominating and intimidating and I think what happens is that

becomes a learned behavior. And I think he also was born with a dominant temperament. I'm born with a conscientious temperament and he's right, and I think he was very sensitive. So I think th th th th th th th th th th th th think think think thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thioleou--a-a, tho-a, tho-a, tho-a, thi, thi, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, to thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, to to togeeeean, togeateateateateateateateat, toeateat, thauuiiiioliioli, thi, thi's right, and I think he was very sensitive. So I think the sensitivity, combined with the dominant temperament, combined with the learned behavior, and his intelligence just created this personality. I think the sensitive part is a very interesting part that gets lost with a lot of these cult leaders, because I do think they are a little sad puppy dogs. Right. Underneath that vibrato is sort of this sensitive, it's not just a narcissistic personality disorder that you're dealing with. Yeah,

because this person is really multi-layered like all of us, right? We're pretty complex beings and so they usually have a cluster being personality disorder like narcissism, antisocial or borderline. I also use the term that was discovered in 2002 by researchers called the dark tetraad. And so the dark tetraad person has narcissism, has psychopathy, has Machiavellianism, meaning that highly manipulative, right? And then the sadism, which they all don't have that, but that's when they get pleasure out of seeing people that they love suffer.

And so, but then they usually have high impulsivity. They can have compulsive process disorders like gambling or sex addiction. They can have a mood disorder like bipolar or major depression and they can have substance abuse. So there's many different layers and they all have their own little smorgasbog stuff into their personality. That's why they're so hard to figure out. And something that happens in cults a lot is sort of like the push pull of like, oh you

love me, oh you hate, like, build you up and knock you down, because they have to be responsible for any greatness that you end up having. So that's what we would call intermittent reinforcement, which is really the bonds of the trauma bond, because they're a lot bombing you and kind and generous, and then they're cruel controlling 70% of the time. But then 30% of the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they're kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind, the their, their, their, their, their, thiweaugheckhihihihihihihihihihihihiiolomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeomeome, th I I I I I I I I I I I will will will will will will will will will.. I'm, th. I'm, th. th. th. th. thii. thi. to to to to to to to th 30% of the time, they're kind and generous and helpful. And so that is what keeps you super confused and creates that internal conflict inside of you. Is he good? Is he bad? Am I good or bad? Is a relationship good or bad?

Who's crazy? That confusion creates cognitive dissonance. It means you have confusion or internal conflict. And the gas lighting does too because it makes you doubt your perception of reality. That didn't happen. What are you crazy? I didn't say that. Oh, you're making that up.

And so let's say I would confront him about doing drugs. And he'd be like, you didn't see me do that. Am I acting stoned? I'm not acting stoned. But meanwhile, I know he's taking drugs, so he takes drugs every single day, right? We really fought mostly about his drug use. And so it's impossible to really have a conversation with somebody like that.

Or another form of it is they accuse you of all the things they're doing to deflect from what they're doing and keep you on the defense. I went to take a golf lesson and I come in because I went to stop and get a sandwich and he's like, you're fucking the golf pro. And I'm like, what? I just got married, a twenty-three-year-old girl, and then he starts to scream at me. But that was because they're accusing you of their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, thee, threatha, threatha, throwe, though, though, though, thi. thi, thi, thi, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I's, I's, I's, I's, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. I, I. I, I. I, I, I. I. I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's toe. I's, I's toe. I's too. I'm too. I'm tooe. I'm tooe. I'm tooe.a. I'm, t tooe.a. I'm, t tooe. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tooe. of what they're doing. One of the things they do is they blame you a lot for their behavior. I mean, I remember thinking, if I do this better, if I do that better, if I take a drug, if I'm nice to him today, and maybe he'll be nice or be different. But of course, it's never about us, it's about them, and the self-blame, I mean, the blaming us is because they're the eternal victim,

even though the perpetrator of the abuse. And there's something called the Carpman Triangle, right? So they go from rescuer to perpetrator to victim. Beginning, he's rescuing me, and he's perpetrating, or now he's my victim all of a sudden. So, I mean confusion, right? So did you love him? For sure. Yeah, there were a lot of qualities that I did love about him for sure. It was very real for me. And that's the hard part too when you wake up and you realize but none of it was real. It was real for me. But yeah, no, it just

devolved over time because the more and more the mask fell, the more all of these abusive negative behaviors were directed towards me. I was like, this doesn't feel like love. Somebody can really suck the love out of you. The none of this is real part is what I think is crucial in that it's the exact same feeling in cults, larger cults, the feeling at the end when it's over, that everything you believed in and stood for and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought, and fought for and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the the, the the, the the, the the, tha, thiaughe, thiaughe, thiaughe, thiolioliolioliolioliol, thiol, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the, the the, the the, thi, the the, the the, the the, thii, the the, thia, the the, thia, the the, thia, thia, thia, thi, thi, thi, and I was just just just justa, was justa, was justa, was justa, wase, and Ia, wase, wase, wase, and Iaugh, wase, was just justa, wasea, the thea, the thea, larger cults, the feeling at the end when it's over that everything you believed in and stood for and fought for and sacrificed for and exiled loved ones for, none of it is what you thought it was, none of it was real. But right now Nadine is in it with him, fully committed to the life and love she thought she signed up for.

Yeah, so after I had two miscarriages that I was like, okay, now I did want to be pregnant, right? And then I gave birth to a beautiful baby, my daughter Chandleran, you look at a baby and you're so happy that they're there. And she's my best friend today, so, yeah, I wouldn't change any of that. My son came two years later, and they were just the precious little beans. And then, right, then you're focused on, that I'm focused on them.

You're just like in your own little private Idaho managing yourself. When did you know you wanted to leave him? I think there was moments from the very beginning, because when he asked me to marry him, I said yes, but inside I said, uh, a part of me must have known? You know what I mean? Like, this is, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi,, I said, yes, but inside I said, uh-uh. A part of me must have known. You know what I mean? Like, this isn't going to go great. I always say that I had three last straws. And the first one was when I said to him, you have to get sober or I'm leaving you. And that's when he went crazy. And that's kind of like the scene that you see in the movie where he does get visible with me. He kicked me down the stairs. Luckily I was 31 and in great shape because I went down a spiral staircase. But I got up, called 911, hung up the bone. He was tired of his mind. The police came, they arrested him. I need you to get dressed. My fuck's going on. You're going to jail. So that was terrifying thifying thifying thifying th th th th th thi th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Luckily th. th. th. Luckily th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. theeeea. theeeeea. theeea. theeea. theeeeea. thea. the. the. Luckily, the.? You're going to jail. So that was terrifying, but he did go to rehab, which was great, and he did get sober. And then the second straw was when, six months later, we went to dinner and I said, you know, that was really, really hard.

The abuse, the drugs, and he goes, wasn't that bad. And that's that no remorse. But something inside of me closed. And then I think a few months later he got arrested and I'm like, he went to jail. They gave him the ankle brace that he came home and I was just like, we have to get divorced. I'm done. I want a divorce. I want a divorce. What does it mean you want a divorce? What does that mean you want a divorce. What do you want to divorce? What does that mean you want to divorce? Get off for me. I want a divorce. Get off you.

You just make love to me. What the fuck is wrong with you? I don't love you anymore, Jordan. You don't love me? You don't love me, huh? That was my window. I knew I was safe. He had an ankle bracelet on. There was nothing th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to told. told. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. tho. tho. tho. tho. the. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Hea. Hea. Hea. Hea. was safe. He had an ankle bracelet on. There was nothing more he could do to make. The power balance had shifted. And it was, it was very clear that he was the bad one.

Now that I'm under federal indictment with an electronic bracelet around my ankle, now you decide you don't fucking love me. Is that right? No. No. This is how it's going to go. I'm going to take custody of the kids. If you agree to the divorce right. I. I. I. I. I. I. to. to. the th. the th. the the. the the, the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the, the the the, the the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. the. theateeat, theat, theat, theat, theat, the theat, the the the theat, their, their, their, the kids. If you agree to the divorce right now, I will allow visitation. Okay? Don't try to fight it. Jordan Belford was arrested in 1999, and in 2003, pleaded guilty to his crimes. He was sentenced to four years in prison, but served only about 22 months after cooperating with authorities. He was also forced to pay restitution to his victims, which amounted to over $110 million. Epdy amount.

It's what you owe me, Tyler, but. I'm going to pay you back. I will do that. I promise. The thing is that, like, I was fearful, but the need for freedom trumped the fear. I was just like, I have to be free of this. I just have to be. And I just was like, I'm gonna face my fears. It can't be as bad as what I've endured.

And then, but we had another house and then he left. He went to our other house. And once you find the courage to leave, once you reach your point of no return. Oh, I'm sorry. Were you talking? I'm sorry. Um, help me wrong. When the ice melts, it just kind of takes it to the next level, it builds. Guys, I'm stuck with these two idiots. Oh, go ahead.

We're fine. I'm listening, Liz. There we're all listening. Once you find the courage to leave. Hmm. I wonder if that's better with cream than it is because 2%'s pretty good, but I bet the cream is really. Oh, it's much richer, much velveteer. Oh, I'm sorry, Liz. Continue, please. And once you find the courage to leave, once you reach your point of no return, there is so much freedom on the other side. I'm surprised at how good it is with 2% milk.

Yeah, it really is pretty good. I really like it. And then I just was like I was so happy. It was just so happy once I got out. I always say, do you remember the scene in risky business? Tom Cruise when the parents leave and he slides across the floor and dances and his underwear. That was me. That was how I felt. So happy and so free. And listen, that didn't mean I didn't feel afraid. That didn't mean they didn't have a lot of what if what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what if what what what what if what if what if what if what what if what if what the their. What if. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their. I was. their their their their their their. I was so their. I was so happy. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. to. to. their. their. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. to. t. the. to. the. to. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. And listen, that didn't mean I didn't feel afraid. That didn't mean they didn't have a lot of what-ifs, right? And I was not prepared back then. I was flying by the seat of my pants. Now I teach my women. Don't ever let them see you coming because you have to tell somebody that wants to control you that you're going to go nuts. And they weren't nice to you when you're in the marriage or relationship they're not going to be nice to you. But like I tell my patients today, you don't have to know how. You just have to keep showing up with the intention to

rebuild your life every single day even when it seems hard. Walking away from what you thought your relationship was, what you thought your group was, Ney, she didn't want any part of the smoke and mirrors. And I just left and I didn't want any money because it was all blood money. So I had a little business at the time. I had a maternity company, so I had a little store and a catalog and a website. So that kept me busy and I had my kids. And I just really lived my life and just worked hard on my business and raised my kids and then just worked on getting divorced from him. He would keep trying to get me back,

but I told him, my cells have memory. I cannot come back to you. It's not even my mind at this point. Again, there was nothing he could do because of the ankle bracelet. His power, his magic was gone. Well, the perceived magic, right, that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, too, too, tooed, tooed, tooed, tooed, tooed, tooed, tooed, tooed,this point. Again, there was nothing he could do because of the ankle bracelet. His power, his magic was gone. Well, the perceived magic, right, that I thought he had. It's like Dorothy, I could have gone home a whole time. And then about a year and a half, two years later, I met thrown, and I had two little kids. So I met him on a blind date and we got along great. So we dated for a while and then of course I was like, I can't trust you, I can't trust myself. But after I had left Jordan, I did check myself into a place called the Karen Foundation and I went away for a week to this program called Breakthrough.

And so I worked on myself that week a lot. I learned about boundaries, I learned I could say no, like all these things that I didn't know because nobody was talking about this 25 years ago. So I'd done a lot of work on myself, throughout this whole crazy time, hence why I became a therapist. Because I know therapy works, right, because I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and I'm thi, and I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I's, I'm, I'm, I's, I'm, I's, I'm, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'm thei, I'm the the the the the the thr-a, thr-a, thr-s, thr-augh, thr-s, throwneea, thrown, and I'm thei, they.a, they.i, I'm thei, I'm therapy works, right? Because I think it saved my life. I don't know if we'd be talking, honestly, had I not been in therapy. So I did trust myself a little bit more to make a good decision. I took a leap of faith. I was like, okay, let's do it. Can't be as bad as what I experienced.

Nothing can. At what point did the book come out? Liz of course is referring to Jordan's book, The Wolf of Wall Street. So Jordan didn't get sentenced until many years later. While he went to jail, he wrote the book. Quick aside, when Jordan was in jail at the Taft Correctional Institution in California, he served time with Tommy Chong, who was incarcerated for selling drug paraphernalia through his company. Tommy Chong is of course one half of the comedy duo known as Cheech and Chong. And Chong encouraged Belfort to write his book.

Chichon Chisholm certainly encouraged many people to do many a thing, but writing a book isn't what I would put at the top of that list. No, but Tommy Chong did convince Belfort to write the book while in prison. Dude, you should write a memoir about how you're like such a dupe bag. Are you gonna drink that? Or is that, because I mean, I'm almost empty here. I mean, I like to, you haven't said a lot of cool facts. I thinne.

Oh, God. and drinking game where every time you say facts I drink. Oh God, how close is the hospital? And he sent it to me and he was like, what do you think I did this for us? I'm like, you didn't do this for us. I'm already remarried, happy, have my life. And yeah, I like, I got so emotional, I cried. And my husband's, okay, get up out of bed now. It was like, okay, it's a book.

I was going back to school right at that time to get my master's. And then seven years later, as I was finishing my doctorate, it was becoming a movie. You know, I was like, oh boy, how are they going to portray me, right? And I used to let go. You just have to surrender into this process. This is bigger than you. Luckily for me, I had been in so much therapy, thank God, so I processed it so much. I can only control what I can control. This movie's getting made.

And so when I saw the movie with my current husband, I was like, okay, it's not that bad. You know, he looks like a crazy person, which he was. So he exposed himself, and I looked like this young girl fell really in love with somebody and was strong enough to leave and protected her kids. So it didn't go into the depth of my character, which was fine because it's not my story, really, it's his story. But to day on our show, it is your story, Dr. Ney. I mean, so I was okay with it. And mostly I was concerned about my kids, and they were okay. They were like, that's my dad. What they got wrong in the movie is that I never got into fights with Jordan about other women. I didn't even know about all those things that he shows what writes about.

We got into arguments about his drug addiction. You th lying piece of shit! Duchess, baby, come on! Don't you fucking Duchess me! Don't you duchess me! Do you really think, I don't know what you're up to? You're a father now, Jordan? Yeah! You're a father now, and you're still acting like it in bed! FAA!

FUK! You fucking dare. But he didn't want to portray it like that and that's his creative license I guess. I never threw water in his face even though I probably should have. Liz, you ever thrown a drink in someone's face? Because there's one in front of you. I'm just wondering if it's going to end up on my shirt and face. I don't think I've ever thrown a drink in somebody's face. Nor have I ever had a drink thrown in my face. But the day is young, so we'll see.

But I will change that tonight. I'm just gonna throw a drink in my toddler's face. If anyone deserves it, it's our children. It's Henry. I'm gonna like, what did. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the day. th. the day. the day. the day. that. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. the day. th. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the right in their face. Yeah, and he'll just laugh and go again mommy again And then you'll have to clean it up that stupid stuff, but otherwise it's all true What about that that one scene that everybody? Oh mommy doesn't want it? Oh no, no daddy doesn't even get to touch mommy for a very very long time? And from now on? It's going to be nothing but short, short skirts around the house. And you know something else, Daddy? Mommy is just so sick and tired of wearing panties.

I wish I was that sexy. I probably have like babies, blow up on me, and I didn't learn fine-tales around my house. I mean, it's a great scene, but the only thing that was real is there were cameras in my daughter's room because he was paranoid. But no, I'm not that sexy.

She did get the accent, I thought. She did, she did, she did. And I met with her to get the accent, and she did a good job. Yeah, it's a hard one. It's like a mix of now Brooklyn and Long Island, probably. It was probably worse 25 years ago, like before I lived in California, you know? Like, you went back to school at what age? At 39.

I mean, therapy, and I love helping people, and I love relationships, and it's something I know I was meant to do. But when I first opened my practice, I wanted to really help everybody. And so that was my intention, but then all these smart, right, beautiful women were coming into my practice, controlled, manipulated, betrayed, abused. And I was like, what is happening? Because I work with women who are in trauma bonds, right? And I helped them escape and heal.

And trauma bonding, how do you see it as it relates to cults versus relationships? Yeah, well, because, you know, you're, like you say, you're indoctrinated into this other person's way of thinking, believing, and living. And there's no space for you. I know about the glooming that happens, right? Which is similar to love bombing. And then you're indoctrinated into this way of being. And it's, the thing is that I think when you join a cult and this is how I felt in my relationship, it's like, oh, I'm gonna be safe here.

This is my people or this is my person. Not even knowing it's the most dangerous place to be, but there's this studo feeling of safety. So the mask falls or the floor falls, right? And then I said, that's it, I'm gonna write a book because I really want to understand what's happening. I started to write the book, I think, around 2018, but then it took a few different changes as my research deepened.

I started to learn more, and then, yeah, and then it just, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. Very humbling experience, but it helps people, and people don't feel alone and they feel validated and they feel seen and they don't feel crazy anymore. I think just also the topic is very dark. The second chapter as he twisted or tender was really hard to write. I remember like screaming at my husband I hate you, I hate Jordan, I hate my father. He was like, okay this is fun and just weaving in all the

clinical material with the story so that it comes to life life to life to life to life to life to to to the the to the the the the the the to the is fun. And just weaving in all the clinical material with the story so that it comes to life for people. But I did it and I'm proud of it. And it was a very humbling experience. And yeah, my book is called Run Like Hell, a therapist's guide to recognizing, escaping and healing from trauma bonds. You know, it's almost like I wrote my book that I wish somebody would have given me all those years ago.

One of the reasons I wrote my book is to destigmatize everything for the victim because anyone and everyone can fall prey to a cult leader or a pathological lover, especially if you were a trusting, kind, loyal human being. And you think everybody sees the world like you do. So I use the word pathological lover because pathological means mentally unwell. And so I believe anybody that will use harm, exploit, and betray person they love to get their needs met for money, power, pleasure, and status of mentally unwell. That's not a healthy thing to do to use people and exploit them. And listen, some people do have intense developmental trauma and it is a reenactment. Some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, some, to, thiiiii. It's thu. It's thu. It's thui, it's thui, it's thui, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it, it, it, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a, thi.a.auui.aui. thi. thi. thiologuu. thi. thi, thi, thi people do have intense developmental trauma and it is a reenactment, some people don't. It's just, it affects everybody. And I think

to label or pathologize the victim, that doesn't mean I didn't have things to look at. It doesn't mean I didn't have things to work on within my self. Of course I did. But I was not responsible for his abuse and drug addiction. Then when you tell somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody somebody their they they they they th. Of course I did, but I was not responsible for his abuse and drug addiction. And when you tell somebody they're co-dependent, that's what you're saying to them. So what was it like becoming famous when you didn't even ask for it or ever really want to be famous? You know, honestly, when it first came out that I got so many phone calls from like, entertainment tonight or this or this or that and I never said anything about it because you know what I had nothing to say. But you know I don't let them use my name in the movie and he was trying to

convince me and I was like listen I make no money I have no creative input. Okay that's the one thing I'm going to say they can't use my name but he goes but you I going to do with it? Now I get to exploit the movie. I actually use this movie to raise awareness about trauma bonds and domestic violence. Isn't that an interesting twist? Yeah, didn't see that coming, Jordan, did you? I wish I could say it had some grand plan. But again, like trusting the process, surrendering and showing up and what was meant to emerge emerged? Well, I think it's it's I I I I I the the biggest. I the biggest. I the biggest. I the biggest. I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I thi thi thually I thi thi thi thi thi thuil thually thually thually thi thi thually thually thually thu thually thually thually thually thually th th th th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th th th th th th th th th th thu thu thu that that that that that that that that that that that that that to that that that to that to that that to that that that that that that trusting the process, surrendering and showing up and what was meant to emerge emerged. Well, I think it's the biggest form of taking your power back. Yeah, honestly, it all just all fell into place and I feel so blessed with the women that I get to help.

I just feel so blessed with the work that I get to do. It is so fulfilling and gives my life such meaning and purpose. At the end of the day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day day tha tha tha the day thii thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, I thoea the the the thi, I tho tho tho thi, I thi, I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I the thi, I the thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, the thea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. thea. At the end of the day I am a clinician. I love being a therapist, I love my work, and I'll never give that up. If you ever look at there's a listener right now and she's in a or he is in a similar situation, whether it's a one-on-one cult or a workplace cult and in that moment of their experience. Is there anything? Yes, reach out, tell somebody. Because when you're in this situation, you don't really trust your perception. And I understand that, and it's really important to go

talk to somebody and have somebody say, no, I believe you. I believe that what you're telling me is true and this is wrong. And just one person saying that can just start you opening up more and getting better, healthier feedback. A lot of the things in cult right after they get out is this big element of shame, right? If you think about the root word of shame and it means to hide, so we want to hide when we fall shame.

And I understand that, but it's the abuser shame to carry, not yours. And so I understand that it can just make you want to hide, but again, the only way to heal it is to reach out because we can't heal or build resilience in isolation. We can only build it with others. And self-compassion is a huge antidote to shame. And self-compassion is simply, I'm suffering, the world is suffering. I must speak to myself as I would a good friend. And I remember saying that to myself,

Boyne, I went through some hard show. And it's okay to say that was really painful. And be kind and nurturing and caring with your self. Like we think that that's going to make us weak but it makes us stronger to have kindness towards ourselves. And what is Jordan think about all the work you're doing today and how open you are? I think at first it was hard for him but I was like listen you wrote a book you made a movie I could do a three minute Tick-talk and you wanted to to use to use to use to use to use to use to use to use to to to to to to to the the to their their their their their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I to their. their. I their. I their. their. their. I th. th. th. I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I th. And I th. And I th. I th. I th. I th th th th their. And I. And I. And I. And I. And I. And I. And I. And I. And I the the the the the the the thi. And I'm thi. And I'm thi. And I'm thi. And I'm thi. And I'm t to. And I'm. And I'm. And I'm. And I'm. And I'm. And I'm. And I'm thi. And I a three minute Tick-Tock. And you wanted to use and exploit our story for your purposes. And I get to do it for mine. And you know, we actually have a good relationship.

After all is said and done, was there ever any remorse? There wasn't any real resolution between the two of us. That's just the reality of it. I was, I was nice to come over for holidays. We certainly have a nice enough relationship, but I hope he has a good life. He's remarried, my kid's love is your wife. Life goes on, right? You've been married, how long?

Oh my God, married together 25 years, and we share two grandchildren now, and it's been great. It's been bumpy. No relationship is perfect, but it's a different kind of imperfect because we're both willing to work on the marriage. And you got to want it enough to keep working at it and you have to be able to hear each other and you have to have resolution to the ruptures, right? And we have to have remorse. There are certain things that need to happen. Well thank you so much for joining to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the the the the the the their their their their their are certain things that need to happen.

Well thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to get your story out there and get people to know the truth. Thank you. I feel just lucky to get to do it honestly. They say love what you do and you never work a day in your life and it's true. Thank you so much. Of course, you're amazing. Today, Dr. Nadine has an active social media where she posts helpful and inspiring clips about trauma bonding and abusive relationship. She also posts a lot about her past relationship with Jordan and shares the truth behind the picture perfect life that she had.

She writes letters to her younger self-picing that self-compassion she spoke about earlier. You guys can follow her on Instagram at the real Dr. Nadeen, that's DR, the real D-R-N-A-N-E-L-M-F-T, and we'll also link to Dr. N-N-A-N-E-N-T, and on T-T, and on Tick-T, and on T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and the-T-T, and on, and, and on, and, and, and, and on, and on T-T, and on T-T, at, at, and, to-T-T, and, at, at, at, at, at, at, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, to-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T, the-T, the-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-N-T-N-N-N-N-N-N-E-L-M-F-T. And we'll also link to Dr. Nadien's book, titled Once Again Run Like Hell in our Show Nost. This glass is empty. As we come to the end of the show and the end of the glass, we want to thank everyone for being here for listening and supporting. Without you guys we couldn't do what we do, so thank you. The next week we'll be back with a story of a man who as a teenager got coerced into an acting class with the promise of Hollywood success. So around like my junior year of high school,

people actually started calling us a cult because of our commitment to one another, our devotion, the fact that we were all we knew, all we hung out with, our life was centered around that. Even relationships were centered around that. If you were gonna date somebody, you were gonna date somebody in that group because we were all we knew. Wasn't it called this written, produced and hosted by me, the dudet, Liz Aikuzzi.

And me, Tyler raging bowl me some. Jesus. What was that? What just happened? I feel like just like that was like Minnie Mouse just screamed. It was like some hurricane mini monkey just got let loose. Let's not forget Rob Pera. I want to say bless you but I actually wonder if you're okay. I wonder if you're okay. I want to be bless you, but I actually wonder if you're okay. I wonder if blessing you is enough. It's definitely not enough. You need a lot more than a blessing, Tyler.

Hallelujah. Oh yes, Rob Perra, he's our audio producer, sound designer, drink purr. Somalier, bartender, officionado, Monsieur. Our social media maven, who wishes she were here, drinking white Russians with us, is Shannie Payton. And our non-Russian Steve Labram. But very white.

Our executive producer. And if he were here, there would be a lot more of these gone. Tinky, tinkie, tinkie, tinkie. Still sounds good. me Don't spare my life Crucify