Was I In A Cult? - Thou Shan’t Be Named: “Non-Church Church” (UPDATE)

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

*NOTE: This episode originally ran in 2022* TITLE: Thou Shan't Be Named: "Non-Church Church" Non-Denominational Christianity. Sounds innocent enough, and for many non-denominational churches, it is. But for others, the non-affiliation creates a dangerous pathway to a choose your own adventure "religion." For Shannon Payton, it was an adventure all right, but not one she necessarily would've chosen...if, of course, given the choice. Shannon has lived more of her life inside the cult than out, but this social media comedian is just starting to scratch the surface of having her voice heard. A voice, of course, that wasn't allowed to be heard for most of her life. And trust us, it's a voice worth hearing. Shannon now has her own podcast called: The Shanny Pants Show podcast. Check it out! Find Shannon: www.shannypantsshow.com Follow Shannon: Insta/ TikTok @therealshannypants Follow us: Insta @wasiinacult Email us: [e-mail] Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/wasiinacult

Is this thing on? Hello? Is this thing on? Hello? It is, Liz. Do you remember how to work a microphone? No, I don't. Could you mansplain it to me, Tyler? Of course, yeah. So take that thingy, right there. Take that thingy, and then you put it into the thingy, and then you plug it into the other thingy, and then stick that into the socket, turn it on, and boom! Organism. Huh? Sorry, I thought you were just giving a teaser for our first episode of our first episode. the first episode of the first episode, guys, is not today. Our first episode will drop on Monday, February 5th. It's orgasmic, literally.

Yeah, it's quite an episode. So what I would do is pencil in a good excuse to be in your car for at least 45 minutes on that day. You're going to think I'm making this up, but do you know what else is on February 5th, Tyler? I don't, Liz. I don't know, feed your dog cat food day. I don't know. What is it? Obviously you're overwhelmed with joy at telling me this, what? It's National Fart Day.

Our tried and true fans will really appreciate that. But not me. It really is. It's National Fart Day. We just really wanted to release our first episode on the smelliest day. Any other particular day that it is, Liz? Actually, I think it is. It's National Sickie Day.

Which is? Call in sick to work day. Really? It is. Huh. Well, then you can call in sick on that day. February 5th, ditch work, and just listen to the new episode. to the new episode.

thoooe that is a valid use of time. I th. I tha tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi tho, tho, tho, thi, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, too, too, too, too, too, too, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, to, toda. toda. today, today, today, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo valid use of time. I agree, but today guys we're not going to leave you with nothing. Yep, today we have dusted off the shelf this one beautiful fantastic episode from past seasons and we're going to put it in your earhole one more time. A back catalog episode if you will guys it's featuring Shannon Peyton. She's known as shannyants to her fans online. Yeah, and this one is titled, Thou Shant Be Named. Non-Church Church. And hold on to your Whoopi Cushions, guys. We will have new content for you in just a couple weeks. Yep. And stick around at the end of this episode, theyme.

thiiiiii. tooe. Yeah, I briefly caught up with the end the end the the the the the the the the the the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. th. toe.'s been doing since this episode initially dropped. Yeah, I briefly caught up with her and I got to say, Tyler, we had a real gas of a time. You're like a 12-year-old boy. Come on, when I saw his national fart day, how can I resist? I suppose you could have held it in. So now you got me doing it. This is stupid. Let's just play the episode. Well, shut up. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Oh, it's going to be a party.

Okay. I am Shannon Peyton, and I'm a pretty open book. Now we get our guests from many sources, but Shannon came to us by her very popular and hysterical Instagram account. If you're going to follow anyone, follow her. It's basically like very sarcastic making fun of anything in life that I deal with, day-to-day or in my past, but it's been so cool because I've been able to use humor as my therapy, and I'm still unpacking a lot from childhood. Because her childhood was not your typical one. So I was born in 1981 in a tiny little country town above Sacramento, up in northern California.

I was born into basically like a high-control religious cult. Of course, we didn't call it that, but that's what it was. My dad was born into it, and then my mom married my dad into it. Now we've covered many cults on this show, and some of them are rightfully more extreme than others, rife with abuse, confinement, horrific leaders. I'm looking at you, children of God. But with some cults, while the physical damage can be lesser, the survivors of these groups still experience mental and emotional trauma that is equally damaging, because cults don't have to be physically dangerous to cause great harm.

This group started as a pretty typical, like we want to start a non-denomination group where we can study the Bible without the restraints of secular religion basically. A Christian non-denominational group meaning they don't formally align with a specific Christian denomination which we should note many non-cultic churches are. So I want to say it was like in the 70s, when who I remember as a leader took over, it started out as a very loving and wonderful new leader. But just because a tree frog can change from green to gray,

doesn't mean it's not a tree frog, if you know what I'm saying. It's very wise, Buddha. That's your analogy, tree frog. Do you have a better shapeshifting animal for me? Not offhand, no, but I'm sure there are some. But what happened is the controlling personality started appearing more. And with that shifting personality comes the questionable dogma. We believed that shifting personality comes the questionable dogma. We believed that all churches were wrong. We are the only ones right.

And so they tried to separate themselves as much as possible from standard Christian denominations. We don't have an actual name because you shouldn't have a name. We cannot call it a church. Nor did they go to a church. We always met in like little Grange Halls, which were lovely. Grange Hall has a better ring to it than Church. Grange Hall sounds like a holdover spot the mob uses for dead bodies. Like, hey Vinny, put him in the Grange Hall for now. We'll dump him in the river later.

Liz pulling out her inner Guido. Hey, my last name's Ayacuzi. I got it in me, okay? Most towns will have a Grange Hall. And ours were always so dumpy. We literally would just rent it on Sunday mornings. We called him gatherings. In our assembly, there was probably 100 people. Every Sunday we'd meet at 10, 1030,

and we would sit in metal folding chairs. Super comfortable. And there wasn't any type of child care. So your children sat with you in your metal chairs from the time they were babies. You would sing three songs out of the hymal book and then someone would give a sermon. But they wouldn't call it a sermon. Because even that is like too churchy language.

We would call it a message. But you'd sit there for two hours and get preached at. The messages that we received were always very strict. This is God's way. This is the only way. You know, it was a very fear-based, and literally it was reading out of the Bible. But it was changed.

Bible verses would be changed to work around whatever rules needed to be said. Like how we dressed, for instance, all went back to the Bible. There's a verse about that that we can find. It's Deuteronomy, Chapter 22 verse 5. A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God. I guess I should take off this jockstrap then, huh, Tyler? Yeah, or maybe just wear it on the inside of your clothes.

I like it on the outside. It used a verse like that and would change it to women can't wear pants, because men were made to wear pants, and women cannot. So we would wear skirts. It was long skirts, like to the ankles. One of the things that we did grow up learning or thinking was our dress could dictate what men's urges were. Because you have these perverted, weird men in our assembly, and my dad would get talked to and say, Shannon's skirt is a little bit too tight and so and so was affected by it.

If we were dressing inappropriately, we could be causing men to send, basically. And you shouldered that burden too. But church meetings were not just a Sunday affair. They also met on Wednesdays. Wednesday night was usually like the amateur night where like anyone that wanted to to could speak. And by anyone, she means anyone with a twig and berries you mean a penis I mean a swinus I haven't heard that one a swenus yeah sweaty penis oh no we've lost our NPR listeners but you had to be approved like my dad was

never able to speak why because my parents were too rebellious my mom would get herms because that was you know a thing back the thi that's th. that that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was th. th. that was th. th. th. th. that was that was that was th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that was th. th. that was th. th. that was th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that was th. th. th. th. that was th. th. that was th. that was thi. thi. that was that was thi. that was that was that was that was that was that was that that that was that that that that that that that that that that that that thi. the. thi. thi. thi. the the the the the the thi. th, my dad was never able to speak. Why? Because my parents were too rebellious. My mom would get perms, because that was, you know, a thing back then. And she would wear high heels that she wasn't supposed to wear. They pushed it a little. Anarchists, agitators, insurrectionists with their damn permed hair. Al the authorities, the authorities immediately. We couldn't do our hair. I hated long hair. All I ever wanted to do was cut my hair. But it didn't end with the stringent rules about hair.

No tank tops, no piercines, no makeup, no TV, no drinking, no politics. We were not allowed to vote. Because, you know, God is in control, and we don't need to have a say-so and what happens. We weren't allowed to dance, obviously, no secular music. We only sang from hymn books. We even weren't supposed to listen to like Christian music. We weren't allowed to celebrate any holidays. Not even Christmas? No Christmas because other churches celebrated that. Every December we had to hear four weeks of messages about why Christmas is fake and not real. And it's not really Jesus' birthday.

Yeah, well, four weeks of hearing about how bad Christmas is beats hearing four weeks of Mariah Carey Christmas songs. All I want for Christmas is you. Did you want to hear it one more time? No? No? You're good? And you were so discouraged from having any outside relationships. That was always weird to me because I babysat for this Christian family.

We would always like have to meet in secret. And they were like this amazing, loving Christian family, but they were wrong because of how they were meeting in a church or wearing pants or whatever it might be. You're just so trained to think they're bad. And you just hoped and prayed that they would come around before they died so they could go to heaven. So Shannon's family tried to convert them by bringing them to her church, or not church. We brought the family that I babysat for. They were so excited because they just think we're so amazing. And they come and they were just like, oh my gosh, like what is this?

They're just like, this is your worship and we're like, no, we don't call it worship. And they're like, okay, it was hilarious. And there were so few people that joined or started coming to meetings. Very few. And the ones that did come were so damaged, I would say, that anything was better than the life they had or the lack of support that they had. And as far as education goes, most of the families did home school. We went to public school.

We dressed very different than everyone else. I hated recess or PE was always a fun one because like, whatever you're doing, you're doing in this long-ass skirt that's folding around your ankles as you're trying to run a mile. Despite the necessary exposure to the outside world, school for Shannon was rough. Yeah, I got made photo, I would say daily. And like the boys, boys were awful, but the girls are also awful and cat-eabed. I hated going to school every single day. During the sex ed classes, we would have to go to the library, everyone in the school from our group and hang out in the library.

And not only that, you know how schools will do your little Christmas plays and the little kids will sing their cute little Christmas songs. Well, we weren't allowed to do that. So we would have to go in the library every tingoil time and we couldn't play sports. So most nights in high school everyone's going to football games and we were always our group. They kind of monopolized any fun time. But they didn't take away all the fun activities, like singing hymns in public to complete strangers. Gee mom, that sounds like fun. What a blast!

Yay! You'd go to the airport. This is the busiest traveling weekend of the year, Thanksgiving, and we would gather a group of maybe 50-60 people and sing songs to all of the weary travelers. I just want you to picture that, men and pants, girls and skirts, at the airport, this giant group. I mean, would you not love to see that when you are just getting off an airplane? Right. We would do that in random places too, like up in Tahoe

at a rest stop to like encourage the travelers. We would sing and pass out tracks. It was honestly the most embarrassing thing. I mean, we thought we were helping people because the the're bringing Jesus to these people's lives that obviously need to be saved. They were also trying to recruit, hoping to bring people back to their church, or non-church. But they were mostly unsuccessful. The way it grew was people getting married married and we all got married super young. But you had to marry within the group so they would gather the teens from all over the country. In a giant, long dress-wearing, overly chaperone, celibate, Christian meat market.

Watch out, Bachelor. There's a new show in down. I'd watch that. We called him assemblies. There was show in town. I'd watch that. We called him Assemblies. There was one in Southern California, one in Texas, one in Oklahoma, and one in Virginia. Because we didn't celebrate any holidays, during holidays is when we would do, we called them Camps,

and we would rent fairgrounds, and then people from any of the assemblies could come to these camps. This one time, church not church camp. So on camps, you might imagine like fun and games. No, no, no. But it's camp. I mean, it couldn't have been that bad. So you would have meetings for two and a half, three hours, and there would be a microphone,

and people could randomly talk. So you would get people that would literally just... Bluh. Word vomit. We don't know sometimes. We don't know the plans that God has has. And then after that, there would be like some playtime, which generally means the guys would play volleyball or baseball.

And then the women would hang out and talk and watch the children and all that stuff and then at 730 the nighttime meeting would start. There were times that it would go to two in the morning. Keep telling them the rules once we enter the Promise Land. Or maybe it was that bad. And these camps were usually held on holidays like the 4th of July. So you would have fireworks thi- And these camps were usually held on holidays, like the 4th of July. So you would have fireworks going on outside, and we are stuck in meetings. And Shannon would sit amid all the noise of the rockets red glare with her trusty notebook in hand. I would just write down verses that were spoken about. I have a lot of

really goofy notes in mine because I got really distracted and hated it. I'm down to one and I need to remember to hold on to it but I go through moments of like just throwing everything away. I burned a bunch of stuff but yeah I still have that one. Do you have it close by I want you to read from your notebook? Yeah do you want me to grab it? Yeah. Let me grab it. Oh like here is, okay I don't have much words written down here, but here is a message on hair. Okay. So we're not allowed to write hair. So one of the verses was First Cranthian's 11-1. Let her be covered. Head of the man is Christ is God. Yeah. Okay, her notes were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were were to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the. the. the. the. the. toooooo. toge. to. th. the. the. the woman is man, head of Christ is God. Yeah. Okay, her notes were a little bit off, and she has reason to be confused because First

Corinthians Chapter 11 is a cluster of weird scriptures about the head of a woman being a man and the woman being created for the woman and women shouldn't shave their head. their head of a thunda. toe, the man, not being created for the woman. And women. And women. And women. And women. And women. And women. And women. And women. toe. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be a the to be a to be a to be. to be a to be a, to bea. to bea. to bea. to be to be to be to be to be to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. And, to be. And, to be. And, to be. And, to be. And, to be. And, to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be a to be a to be a the the the the the the the the the the the. the thea. the the thea. the thea. the the. the. toe. toe. toe. And to't need to cover it. And then it's about eating bread and drinking from a cup and a house and a church and it just keeps going and going. Well, at least it all makes sense. I just remember being at a July camp. I remember us girls, you know, we'd always be like, 11 or 12. And there she saw a strappin 14 year old boy. And I remember thinking he is the one. Like he is so cute because

you know you're gonna marry someone from the group. Right. And I think that's why from such a young age you're like okay tag he's mine because otherwise I might miss out in this situation. A year later, this guy's family moved to California and... We started liking each other. We don't call it dating because you didn't date. And there's no physical touch, nothing like that. No, no. Basically you get to know each other at meeting and at gatherings. You never were alone, ever, ever, ever.

And if you did get caught with another boy, it was trouble. We were getting in trouble for like the stupidest little things. My sister and I were hauling firewood one day from our garage like up to the house. From the neighbor's house, we were carrying firewood in our sweatpants. And a man from the neighbor's house, we were carrying firewood in our sweatpants. And a man from the group was watching. Basically, he was spying on us, and we got turned in. And my dad had to go to men's meeting to explain why we were in pants, literally carrying firewood in our sweats on our own property.

Men's meetings were men-only, obviously, and the man of the house would be required to go as punishment, whenever any member of the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family the family of the family of the family of the family of the family of the family of the family of the the the the the the the the the man of the house would be required to go as punishment whenever any member of the family broke the rules or acted out. And not like, ooh, skinny jeans. We're talking like sweatpants. But it's like, okay, I see God as this loving God. Why would he care if I am hauling firewood in sweatpants? God hates sweatpants. Pandemic must have been real rough for him, or her, or them. There was a gal who would go check her mailbox in her pants, was seen doing this,

and so she got rebuked in front of the congregation and made an example of basically. And it wasn't just the girls and their demonic Levi's that felt the wrath of the leaders. The guys, one time they went to a church, a little tiny local church, and sat on the back road just to see like, what is this all about? Well, it got found out that they went. So they basically have to stand up in the front and confess that they went and your mom's would sob and it was so dramatic. Oh my God. Yeah. This is the things that were made into such a big deal. But sometimes it was worse than just a rebuking for sinning could get you kicked out of

the group. Your biggest fear was being marked to be excommunicated. And when that happened, you don't talk to the person, you don't see the person. If you see him in the grocery store, you ignore them. When I was probably six, my aunt and uncle that were excommunicated from our group. They were questioning, trying to get the leaders to give answers as far as like, what biblically really is the reasons that we can't do some of these things that you don't allow us to do? But questioning ideology is a big no-no in cults.

It's all these rules and regulations, and if you don't follow it, you're out. And they always held that over you. And I think that's probably why my parents ended up staying for so long, is if you question anything, you never were given a straight answer. So you just learned to not express yourself. And I remember I was probably 17. I remember my dad talking to me and my sister, because we were. th. the th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, and the the the tho, and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, and the th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th no, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho tho tho thooooooooo thooooooooooooooooo thooooooo tho tho I remember, I was probably 17, I remember my dad talking to me and my sister

because we were just so frustrated with so many things. And he said, we could leave now, but you'll never see your boyfriends again. And at that point, we knew we were marrying them. So it was like, we're stuck. It's just another way to keep you there. And she believed that marriage was the best thing for her in the eyes of God. So she stayed with the full intent of being married to the strapping young man she met at camp those many years ago.

Although they weren't able to really get to know each other. First of all, courtship is basically nothing. You just see each other at meetings. But he was the one, so? When I was in high school I was engaged. We went to dinner all by ourselves and then walked outside after dinner and he said, will you marry me? And I was like, oh I'm so surprised. Uh-huh. We kissed. Our first and only kiss before marriage. Sure. Uh-huh. You believe her, Tyler? No way. So that's the one and only time we were ever alone.

And then we got married the year after I graduated from high school. We had 600 people at our wedding. That's insane. Everyone is invited, meaning anyone from any assembly, basically. Some of them barely knew me. And her rebellious father wasn't even allowed to speak. We had a friend's dad who I really like and respected and was in the group. He ended up marrying us but that was a huge no-no and then we had my sister and one of our friends sing a secular song that was not an allowed song.

Tim McGraw amazed. So the guys walked down to that song not an allowed song, Tim McGraw amazed. So the guys walked down to that song. So much drama witty. How did they know those songs? I mean- Well, they just knew it wasn't from the hymnal. Right, right. Yeah, so we'd walk down and then we didn't even do vows.

The preacher was the only person that talked. So he would say, blah, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, thi, thi, thi, th only person that talked. So he would say blah blah blah and then you said I do. That was the only thing you said. That's it. That's it. Oh wow. Yeah. We did kiss. Yeah you did kiss. Okay. So we kissed then that was it. Well at least they got to celebrate with a huge wedding party after the ceremony, right? And then afterwards everyone has cake and punch and goes home. There was no dancing. Every wedding was the same. OK, personal note here. I have to say that this is very similar to Mormon weddings.

Having grown up a Mormon myself, their weddings are so boring. And it wasn't until I left the faith that I found out that weddings are celebrations of love and family, and they're filled with food with the food with the food with the food the food their their their their th...... that that that I found out that weddings are celebrations of love and family and they're filled with food and open bars and bridesmaids and your aunt dancing to play that funky music white boy in front of everyone else. But after Shannon's somewhat rebellious but albeit still mundane wedding, she and her husband grabbed their own piece of cake, had a little fruit punch, and the newly betrothed got in a car and drove up the California coast to their honeymoon hotel Betrothed, got in a car and drove up the California coast to their honeymoon hotel, alone for essentially the first time. In our hotel room, there was champagne.

And we just dumped it down the drain. No. Yes. Because no booze, remember? Then did you have sex for the first time on your honeymoon? Yeah, we did. What was that like? It was so fabulous because...

Long time in the making. It was as awkward as possible because you just didn't talk about sex. And so it was foreign and like awful. Yeah, it was weird. We'll be right back after this break. But we don't call it a break. We call it a few moments where we can sell shit. Back from their honeymoon, it's now time for the nulets to build a life together, one step at a time. We moved into an apartment. We moved into an apartment. The way we're raised does not set you up to be in a relationship because you're always

told what to do, everything is controlled for you, you don't know how to live with another person because you live with your parents until you go get married. Which is so weird. So weird and so hard, like to just be, all of a sudden we're coexisting together. So it was really, really tough tough for a long time. And yes she and her husband are still in the cult, rocking the cult life, love in the cult life. But now she was hanging out with all the other married folks. We called ourselves young couples. We did a lot on Sundays together. You would just hang out all day Sunday and have a potluck after meeting and then have a

night meeting. But even then they couldn't be alone. Some of the old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old old the old old old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old then have a night meeting. But even then they couldn't be alone. Some of the old couples in the church had to come out and supervise us. I'm talking we're all in our 20s. They felt that need to just really over-chaperone. For a career, I wanted to be a nurse really bad, but I chose to get married instead. All the guys pretty much had normal jobs. I wanted to be a nurse really bad, but I chose to get married instead. All the guys pretty much had normal jobs.

Like her husband, who built log houses for a living. Women didn't have jobs. They were homemakers and raised the family and all that stuff. But sometimes, the ladies came up with some pretty rebellious ideas. My sister-in-law, she's like, I want to do like women's Bible studies. Women's only Bible studies were not permitted because, you know, women speaking their minds and stuff. You got to stop doing that, Liz. I'm trying, I'm working on it. Silence thyself. Silence thyself.

Elizabeth. Quiet! So like on the nights the guys play basketball when their genes, we should do this Bible study, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the th, their th, th, their th. thi thi, their thi, the nights the guys play basketball and their jeans, we should do this Bible study. And so we did it one time and it got found out, oh my gosh, you would have thought that we literally were worshipping the devil. We were not allowed to do anything like that way. Like we could get together in scrapbook, but we couldn't do anything like Bible studies. Oh my God, why? Because we are women and we shouldn't this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. We should should thi. We should thi this Bible study this Bible study this Bible study this Bible study this Bible this Bible the Bible thi thi thi thi thi thi thi wei webib. We get together in scrapbook, but we couldn't do anything like Bible studies. Oh my God, why? Because we are women and we shouldn't be teaching. And women were not smart enough to examine the Bible or learn anything from it without the assistance of a man. Women were not allowed to have any leadership role whatsoever, but they can breed.

You know, once you're married, it's like, oh, I'm just going to have kids now. Remember, having children is essentially the only way that this odd little group gains any members. So we tried for like six months. Nothing happened. Doctor said we need to wait a full year. Nothing happened. So she referred us to the infertility doctors. We started through that whole process.

We did three IUIs. None of those worked, and then we did three IVFs. I froze my eggs, Tyler. I don't know if you know that. I didn't. You have to pump yourself with drugs every night, and it's very physically taxing this experience. And for Shannon to go through it three three three three three three three three three three thi thi thi thi to thi to to thi to thi to to to thi, to to to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to go to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tothrough it three times with no success. Oh, man, I feel for her. What Shannon and her husband finally discovered was that... My eggs and his sperm were incompatible,

so they had to do where they like put the sperm into the egg. It was called Gift back then, but it did stick, so I had to like miscarry that. I personally feel that speaking out about this process is so important. For some reason, I just feel like there's so much shame still attached to fertility issues, yet there's hundreds and hundreds of women and couples that go through this every day. So thank you, Shannon, for speaking out and sharing because that helps the next person. Shannon and her husband had put everything they had into trying to bring life into this world. But this process can not only deplete the the the their their the the their the their the the the the the their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the the the. the. the. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I to teean. I to tean. I tean. I teat teat teat teat theateate. I the. I the. I everything they had into trying to bring life into this world. But this process can not only deplete you mentally and physically.

It also depletes your pocketbook. At that point we were out of money. I think we spent $50,000. After that, I knew we weren't going to do it again. That's why I never got pregnant. Wow. I blamed myself, growing up in this environment. I would always think it was because I did something bad.

So God wasn't blessing my uterus because I had done bad things in my life. And it was very depressing. It was very lonely. Looking back, I don't know how I even survived. So I'd be going to meetings every week, like trying to be happy, and you didn't want anyone to know that you're suffering. Literally, we never discussed real things that actually affect your life. You discussed what God wanted and how to be right. The mental health situation in our group was out of control.

I mean, probably every single person was a depressed person. And there were a couple of people that were psychotic. And they should have had true professional help. It wasn't allowed. Despite all odds, Shannon and her husband were happy together. But they still wanted a family. So then we decided to adopt. They signed with an agency that matches you with women who are pregnant.

How it works is you create a profile and then the expecting mothers pick from the profile and pick a family. So we got picked from this gal in Berkeley. So we went down and met her and started a relationship with her and she said, yeah, you're the ones like I pick you guys and she was having a baby girl. We got all prepped for baby girl and she was due December 10th. We were going down to San Francisco to go to a doctor's appointment with her, and our social worker called and said,

your birth mom that you were hooked up with is on the news. She was a scam artist, scamming couples out of as much as she could get from them with her pregnancy. And she was really pregnant this time, but she had come from another state where she had done this multiple times. After everything Shannon and her husband had been through, they finally gained hope for the first time that they were going to

become parents. The letdown was brutal. That was awful. And so for the time being, they let it go. The emotional exhaustion was almost too much to bear, and all the while Shannon is still believing that God is cursing her for wearing pants. So then we went down to Thanksgiving with our family, and we're on our way back up. And she gets a phone call from a friend, a woman she works with at an animal rescue center. She's like, Shannon, like crying, will you adopt my grandson? And I'm like, what?

This woman's son and girlfriend had just had a baby that they couldn't care for. She's like, I don't want to raise my grandson. She couldn't take care of him. We were like, oh my gosh, call the social worker, what do we do, how do we make this work? I work. I I I work. I I I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, thi, thathe, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, call the social worker, what do we do? How do we make this work? I went and met him the next day. So on December 10th, his birth parents brought him to our house. December 10th, the day her other adopted baby girl was supposed to be born.

And we're like, we're parents. I showed up at my mom's house with the car seat with a baby in it. My dad answered the door. And she she she she she she she she. the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. th. th. I, th. I, th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I went, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. th. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th car seat with a baby in it. My dad answered the door and she just is in the background and hears me say, is mom here, I have her grandson. And my sisters came and then my husband's family came. And then we were like, we're parents. It's a cool story, but it gets worse before it gets better. Oh, come on. A couple days later, we planned a baby shower like the next weekend.

Birth mom found out about it and freaked out. We get home from baby shower night and on the answering machine is a message from her freaking out. Oh God. It was awful. You learn a lot going through this. It's very hard for birth moms, the birth dads too, because it's such an emotional time, the reality of it is, that happens a lot where birth moms want them back. Which makes sense. I can't imagine the emotionally difficult experience of surrendering your own child. So the next day we had to take him back. Oh, oh! I thou? I thi thou, I thou. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. T th. T th. I th. T th. I th. I th, th, th, th, th, th, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th, th, th th th th th th th the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their th, th, th, th. th. th, th. th, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thee, theee, thate, thate, that, that, that, that, that, that, thi thi thi th next day, we had to take him back. Oh.

I thought I would die. Heartbroken, Shannon and her husband were back to the drawing board. After days of falling in love with their child, they now had to give him back. But soon the boy's birth parents realized that as much as they wanted to, they unfortunately, they now were not given back. But soon the boy's birth parents realized that as much as they wanted to, they unfortunately were not capable of giving their son the life he deserved. But there's certain paperwork that has to be signed in order for that to not happen again. And I said, I'm not taking him back until that's done.

And so, until the legalities were squared away. His grandma kept him during that time, and we would go open the evenings and see him and feed him and stuff. Eventually the paperwork was all finalized. And then we got him back for good and kept him. Once and for all, they were parents. And then nine months later, we finalized his adoption, and that were parents. And then nine months later we finalized his adoption and that was lovely. Side note, Shannon and her son's birth mother have a wonderful

relationship today and it's an open adoption which has been a great experience for her son and her family. A lot of people wonder, can you love him the same as your a kid that was born to you and I'm like, yeah I wouldn't, I don't even think about it anymore. So here she was, still in the cult, but being a mother changed everything. The whole time I had him, it was really when I started questioning, and a lot of it for me had to do with raising a child. As the father of a toddler, I can attest. A lot of questions arise when you have a new child. Like what? Like did I even sleep at all last night? Where are the car keys? Or how does a 10-pound baby create 20 pounds of poop in one day? Do they?

You'll find out. But for Shannon, the questions were the same ones she had been asking for years, like the pants, the cutting of the hair, like give us some answers. But like in every cult, reasonable answers never come. Despite numerous attempts at asking. It took years of questioning so much discussion around the why. But it seemed that many others in the group were also openly questioning. And then what happened with enough of us questioning they were doing this mass marking of people. Meaning they were being excommunicated. And it's like, okay, half of my friends are marked now so you can't scare me with that. Okay, cool,

Marcus, we don't care. We're just gonna start doing our own thing. And my parents actually left before me and my husband. Oh wow. They were like one of the first. So it just felt right. And then even more people left. So we pretty much just stopped going, but it was a process. It was years and years. A process, yes, but she was finally free. Because you're so used to having such a controlled schedule, it was like a freeing shock, like a freedom and like, ooh, I have all this time. What are we going to do on Friday night? Even wearing pants in public or shorts and po-like, that took a long time to feel comfortable

in that, or bathing suits, or cutting my hair. Like I remember I took a little bit off then, I took a little more off. And then for my 30th birthday, or maybe 35, I got my ears pierced and it was at least three years before we started celebrating Christmas. I remember my mom had given me like a small tree and I was like so nervous to bring it in the house. My parents found another church pretty quickly. And it wasn't a cult. Thank goodness. But it took a long time for us to actually go to church.

So many of these types of high control groups that are religious, they ruin religion for so many people in general. But I feel now like I have a personal relationship with God and I look back and I'm like, I never had that. Never in the entirety of being in the cult. Did I ever have that relationship with God? You just sat there, you listened, you rolled your eyes, you just lived it and did what you were told to do. Shannon and her husband did find a church to attend, and yes, they can actually call it a church. And her old group? Well, it's still going, but they lost so many people. They were just meeting in homes and then they all ended up moving to Texas or down south because there's just not enough to keep it going up here.

If Shannon had to guess theythey have around 1,000 members nationwide. And it actually has a name now, because, you know, cults love to shift their rules. It's called a biblical light. And Shannon and her husband, well, they adopted again. I got very educated on like sibling sets. And my heart was just like, oh my gosh, maybe we should get a sibling set because there's so many and they really want to try to keep the siblings together.

So now they have two daughters in addition to their son. It's a party every day now. Life outside the cult isn't always easy as she is often reminded of her indoctrination. So many triggering things and then being like, oh I want to work on myself more, I started going to therapy, real therapy. Right. And I want to say the first appointment I was at, the therapist was like, hmm, you were in a cult? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It's like a church group. And then when my husband went to therapy, his therapist did the exact same thing.

For most of her life, Shannon had to call certain things by different names, including not saying a church was a church. But now, she finally had a word for her non-church church. So I guess, if they both think it's a cult, it's probably a cult. And her healing process is a never-ending journey. I think part of it is accepting how much your past plays a part in your present. That was my life. All I can do now is move forward and decide what to do with it from this point forward.

It will always be a process of deprogramming, always, forever. And a wonderful outlet for her healing has been through her widely popular Instagram account, where Shannon posts hilarious, often mom-centric videos that have reached a wide audience. This comedic sight of her is something she was never able to explore while in the cult. And she told me that it has been so wonderful to finally be able to discover her true self. And if there is any upside to growing up in a cult, it's that it's often the little things that make you happy, reminding you of what life could have been

had you stayed in that toxic environment. It's nice to overall be like, well, I'm gonna go to go the store the store the store the store the store the store the store the store the store to go over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over over going to go to the store in my jammies and I don't really care if someone thinks I'm homeless, like, right? I don't care. You're going to live in your truth. Right. I'm confident in myself. I don't really care too much about what other people think of me, and that's a very nice place to be. Shannon, thank you for sharing your story with us.

It was such a pleasure talking to you. And you guys must follow her Instagram and Tick-Tock. Her handle is at official Shanny Pants. And apparently Kelly Clarkson is a fan too, as she had Shannon on her show during the pandemic. Is that so? Yep. And that's all for this week, folks. Thank you for listening.

And if anyone you know or you yourself has a story for us, or even a better analogy for Liz's Tree Frog, just reach out to us at Cults at IHeartMedia.com we would love to hear from you our listeners. And if you haven't yet, give us some stars, five preferably. Every star counts. Like you. You're a star. I'm five stars, Liz. Not you, Tyler. I'm talking to our audience. Oh, okay. Well, there's stars too. But, yeah, if you like the show, five star, us up.

Is that even a thing? I'll stop now. We will be back next to me guys for another crazy-ass cult story. We didn't go to school the whole time we were there. So for like two and a half years I just sleep all day because I just think I just didn't want to be awake and then I would just wake up and just eat a bunch of food and watch TV. I got extremely pale because I literally didn't go outside. And then yeah, just the Bible teachings on the weekend, the world's still gonna end. You guys need to get right, here's a video of hell.

Hey guys, we were interviewed on an amazingly fun, fun, fun podcast. Called the Daily Zykeist. And if you want to check it out and listen to us talk a little bit about pancakes and Liz's preferred morning beverage, I'm not going to tell you. You can find the link in the show notes. The Daily Zikey's January 10th episode. Was I an occult produced and written by Tyler Effortless Miesem? And Liz the Tree Frog Ayacuzzi.

Executive producer is the one, the only Ari Basile. Audio editor is Chandler Mays. And our lovely publicist is Lauren Dutton Green. Shout out to Danel Goodman. And our fan of the week goes to Maxine VanDate from Canada. Her handle is fantastical. It is at Shomila Mamumu. Shamaama-L-A-M-A-M-M-M-U. That's nice. Maxine, will you please let us know where the... Where Canada is? Where the inspiration for this handle is is because it's fantastic. Thank you for listening

and spreading the love. We appreciate you. Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the entire episode. Again, this was an older episode, so we recorded it, I don't know, solid year plus ago, and we will be coming out with new episodes. But in the meantime, Liz caught up with Shannon in a very short conversation. Right Liz, very short. We are with Shannon Peyton. It's Liz. It's Shannon. I miss you so much.

I mean, I see you a lot more than you see me because you're famous. Let's call it that. I'm so excited about the show. I know. Finally back right? I'm thrilled. This is the show that won't quit. You can try to take us down.

Yes. But we will survive. I mean, you truly have been through it. From the ashes multiple times. It's got to be an amazing podcast if you could get through what you've been through and come back. Most people would be like, eh, I'm out. I want to do a real catch-up with you because you've had some cool stuff happen in your life since we first recorded your episode, which was what, like two years ago at this point? That seems like another life. Well for you too. I don't even th. to to to to to to to to to told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told told you told you told told you told you told you told told told their their. told their. to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. their. th. their. th. th. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, too. I don't even think you were pregnant yet. I was pregnant, but I wasn't announcing yet. Or I told you off air. Oh, yes.

I'm like, I know a secret. You also, you just wanted to be us so badly that you started your own podcast. Huh? If they can pull it off, anyone can do it. So I should give this a try. Yes, I want to say it was right after we met, because I had been throwing the idea around, and then I was invited on so many podcasts, and I'm like, oh, this is me.

I talk and I don't stop talking, so I might as well just have my own platform so I can talk as much as I want. You guys remember the first podcast I was invited on? And then there was a bunch of followers. Yes, they all wanted shanty pants after that. I realized it's so valuable to listen to others' stories. We could have completely different backgrounds and stories, and yet they're still so connected. You guys gave me that opportunity for the first time, really, to actually talk through my situation in a very public way.

And it really did a lot for me. I owe you guys more than just making you be my friends for life. I would love to dig in a little bit on that I think our audience will find it interesting, but also for other people that might be listening that are perhaps scared to share their story or think like, you know, there's all the shame and the fear of sharing. I guess I didn't even think really about the the the the thi thi their thi thi, their thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom. the, th shame and the fear of sharing. I guess I didn't even think really about it much at all as far as how it would impact me, but it gave me the first stepping stones of pushing myself into a lot deeper healing

that I'd ever have done. I've been out of my cult for about 12 years now. And, you know, you get out and you think oh I'm out life's good but I didn't ever really do the hard work and I went to some kind of basic therapy and so it really pushed me in that way to heal fully or as fully as you can ever heal but to do the hard work and then when I started my own podcast it became even more apparent how much work I still needed to do, again, because I'm learning from all the guest on my show. We all have so much to learn from each other, and I think there's so much value in sharing our stories.

And my story's not that shocking or like crazy. And then being on your show and others really made me realize all of our stories are valuable. A lot of the stigma around cults in general is like unless you know you were drinking cyanide it's not worthy of a story but actually these more gray area cults are way more prevalent and way more relatable to the average person. And after I did your guys podcast I definitely got more I don't know't know, the word brave maybe, of sharing on my platforms. And the responses I was getting from sharing very little snippets of, you know, recovery and such, was alarming. It blows my mind. And what about your husband and other ex-cult members? What's the update? Our cult is currently still running. It's daily dwindling, hallelujah.

But his parents are still in it. And we've never had a super close relationship, but I know that there are many from the group that like spy on me. And my husband, Hill, he just laughs. We were talking the other day about like, who's on the worst of the worst list for them right now. and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and he, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th..... th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the thi, the the the the thi. the to to the thiii. to the the to the to the the thi. the thi. thi. thi, thi. th worst of the worst list for them right now. And he's like, you are number one. That's the best compliment ever.

I know. How are your kids? Kids are good. I have a high schooler now, a sophomore, which just blows my mind that I have a kid in high school, getting ready to drive. So we've been driving around in parking lots. That's a new mom thing. And then my two two the girls thoes their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their And then my two girls are pre-teen girls. So there's a lot of emotions in our home. I can't complain. Life is good. Life is good. What else are you doing? With your life?

You have like multiple other jobs. I do social media for several different companies, and I'm still doing real estate a little bit, but I'm trying to phase into only doing podcast and shanty pants stuff, which is like my dream, so eventually we'll get there. You had a rise from the ashes too. Yeah, when I got hacked. You had a very popular Instagram. That was what, like over a hundred thousand followers? Oh yeah.

I think my Instagram was like at 140 or something, and then my Facebook was like a th.....A th.A, th.A, th.A, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and I, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I'm, and I'm, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.eea, thiiiiiiiii.ea, thiii. And, thi. And, thi, thi, thi at 140 or something and then my Facebook was like at 110 and they both got hacked. In November I talked to my husband about not renewing my real estate license and going full-time shanty pants stuff because I was making enough money where I could do that. So like I had all these plans laid out and then December 5th I got hacked. And then overnight my life changed completely because those were my main sources of income. The hacker's still running the Facebook page. They changed one letter in the email address,

so I have no access. Facebook doesn't care. I tried to tell myself I wasn't getting depressed. I hit depression really hard, which I suffer with anyway. It was bad though. Like I'm still maybe a little bit recovering from it because it was just such a hard hit. I try to like take everything as a learning opportunity.

So I do feel like I did learn a lot through the process, but it was hard. What's the point of these hackers? What are they trying to get? On the Facebook one, they're running it still? They post something every hour and it's just like stupid, lickbait stuff, nothing that I would have ever posted on my account, but they still have all my followers. I did a lot of research at the beginning, and what I discovered was that there's some way that these hackers use what they're posting, like to gain pornography customers.

I don't know how it works, but they're taking my money because it's going to their email account now. Well, you restarted, you have all your new followers What's your new handles on Instagram? It's the real shanny pants and then Shanny pants show dot com has all my links there? Guess what I started doing? I took a stand-up comedy class in December. Yes, and did stand up for the first time time? It's amazing. It was crazy because I like public speak and I took. I t, I the the the took. took. the took, the took, the took, the the took, the the took, the the the the the took the the took the the ta the the the ta the their their their their their to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. the the the their their their their up for the first time. It's amazing. It was crazy.

Because I like public speak, and I can like BS my way through like a presentation. But you don't realize how hard stand-up is. You know I did it for four years. Oh my gosh. Okay, we're going to talk more about that. I was a gymnast growing up. So I would go every day after school and practice five days a week, three hours a night and four hours on Saturdays.

What? And then I remember going to college and you know that was taken out of my life. So I would go to school and then I'd go home and whatever eat and do homework. I'm like, where's the three hours where you risk your life? Because that's what gymnastics is. And it wasn't that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the that's their that's their that's that's their their their their their that's their thia? that's their thi. I's a their their thi. I was a thi. I was a their. I was a their. I was a their. I's, their. I's, their. I's, their. I's their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi. I was a thi. I was a the. I was a the. I was. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm th. I'm. I'm th. the. the. I's. I it wasn't until I did stand-up comedy that I had the same feeling as being a gymnast. I was like, oh, this is life or death stakes. Because you step onto the stage and you either bomb or you fucking crush. And it's like the two extremes are just, I mean, it's addictive.

It's me getting outside of my comfort zone. So I'm doing it more just for the two extremes are just, I mean it's addictive. It's me getting outside of my comfort zone. So I'm doing it more just for the experience and just kind of make myself do something different. Tyler will kill me if we keep talking too much longer. I know. He's just the worst. I hope he hears this. We could talk for hours and hours, Tyler. We can do that on our own time, Tyler, when you're not overhearing us.

Well, again, if you want to be on Shannon's podcast, the best way to get hold of me for podcast stuff is I just started a new Instagram account, Shanny Pants Show podcast. So message me there or email me from my website. Well, thank you for gracing us with your presence. We'll have to do it again. I love it, yes.