Was I In A Cult? - TITLE: The Mel Lyman Family PT1: “People Get Ready” (UPDATE)

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

**NOTE: This episode originally ran in 2021** As an actor and writer, Guinevere Turner understands more than most, that some stories just can't be contrived. Because sometimes life is far stranger than fiction. As is the case with Guinevere's upbringing. Not your typical getting out story, it would take years for Guinevere to understand that, no, she didn't grow up on a hippie commune in the 1970s and 80s... she grew up in a cult.  ______  Follow Guinevere: @guinevereturner  Buy Guinevere’s book HERE  Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail]  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon  Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com  Link to Spotify playlist for this episode 

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this podcast, called Was I and a Cult. I'm your host, Tyler Meesum. And I'm here too, guys. I'm Liz I Aikuzzi. So look, if you're new to the show, we give those who are in cults or cultic environments a chance to share their story and take their power back.

And we do this for many reasons, okay? But one being, Tyler and I both were in cults. And when we got out, we noticed that there was a lot of stigma attached to the C word. Cult, not the other C word. Not the... Still stigma attached to that. See you next Tuesday. It's the best word. Regardless, we are talking about another C word, which is cult. And guys, my cult was an acting class, okay? Literally, an acting class that morphed into a self-help spiritual, seeking enlightenment cult. Interesting, strange, and one day we will interview you. We just keep hype in this thing.

It just keep hyping it. But yes, we will interview you. Well, when you're not so busy with your two films in the Toronto International Film Festival, Tyler. It's good to have someone else say it and not just me, but yes, I do have two films premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival in September. I know I like to make fun of you, but it's very difficult to get a film into TIF and to get too into TIF is amazing. I know how hard you work, so I'm very, very excited for you.

Thank you, Liz, but you know, the podcast is much more important. It is. Just don't get too famous for me and like, thanks, Liz. I don't have to like fire you and hire some Tyler wannabe. Please do. So anyways, guys, when I left my acting class cult, I was dumbfounded Who would ever imagine an acting class would be a cult and it took me a while to find The word to describe my experience that it wasn't just a creative environment run by an eccentric artist It was a cult run by a cult leader only it wasn't your typical cult. We didn't all wear white. We didn't live on a compound I mean my cult leader loved sushi and diamonds and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. they. they. they. they. tea tea tea tea tea tea tea tea tea the cult. the the the the the the the the the the't your typical cult. We didn't all wear white, we didn't live on a compound. I mean, my cult leader loved sushi and diamonds and grew up in Beverly Hills.

But when I was able to finally see the parallels and the checklist of, quote, was I in a cult? I was able to call it what it was. A cult, right? Correct. And not the other sea word. And all of this is to say that that that that that that that that that the the the that the thiiii, thi, thi, to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to tooe, tooe, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, told, told, told, told, told, told, told, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, too, tho, tho, tho, the c. the c. the c. the c. the c. the cult, tolu. tolu. too, to, tolu. to. to. tolu. to. to. to. tolu. too. tolk, tolk, of this is to say that the talk around cults for too long has been, it's been sensationalized and frankly, a little judgmental. And that's why this show was born, because the world needed more cult podcasts. No, it needed one that had comedy in it though. That's the difference. Correct. I refuse to do a show about cults and have it be dark and depressing and doom and gloom. If we were going to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make to make the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to. to. to. to. talks talks talks talks to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. Correct. I refuse to do a show about cults and have it be dark and depressing and doom and gloom. If we were going to make a show that dealt with cults, I knew we needed to bring joy, lightness and humor, and we only wanted guests on this show who also wanted to approach their experience the same way. And let's not forget that the sea word cults that is, has too much power to begin with. So by, you you, taking the piss out of it, adding a little levity and making fun of it,

and its leader, it takes the power away. And it puts the power back into the person they stole it from. The one who got manipulated. So today, guys, we are publishing one of our favorites from our very first season, featuring the wonderful Guinevere Turner. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. that that that that that that that's that's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. today. today. today, today.vere Turner. I love this episode and you'll soon find out why because it is full of music. Rock and roll old white male music. And if you haven't gleaned by now my race, my age, my gender and my sexual preference, you soon will.

Oh, we clean it all day long, Tyler. Because I get pretty deep into some serious white male rock. But, Gwenevery Turner, she was an American actress. She's a screenwriter and a filmmaker. She gained prominence in the 90s with her role in the landmark film, Go Fish, that whole mid-90s independent film era, which she co-wrote with director Rose Trosh. And since she has collaborated on several notable projects, including co-writing the screenplay

for the cult classic pun intended guys, American Psycho, as well as the notorious Betty Page. And she was born into this crazy dooms-day cult called the Lyman family, or shorthand the family, which centered around the belief that one day we're all going to live happily on Venus, which makes sense for those who know anything about planets. I mean, that's where I come from anyway, right? Yeah, men are from Mars, right? And women are from Mars, right? And women are from Venus. Fly Traps.

We got you. And after reading a New Yorker article about her experience, we reached out to her to see if she wanted to share her story on our show, and thankfully, she was interested. So we did a two-part episode about her upbringing in this musically dominated cult and her acerbic wit was just the type of guest that was perfect for our show. Yes, but we're also busy producing new episodes and bringing more inspiring and jaw-dropping stories right to your ears. Upcoming we have an ex-Q-Q-in-Honor who will share her story.

We have an Australian vegan cult, which is going to be super fun and crazy. We have a Falun Gong, you know, the Shenyan dancer. We have one of those young ladies coming on our show to share her story. We have another cult leader father that is being exposed and that story is wild. And next week is our one-on-one cult with Dr. Nadine Mecaluso. Yeah, that's a pretty good one. Here's a quick clip, guys. I always say that I had three last straws,

and the first one was when I said to him, you have to get sober or I'm leaving him. And that's when he went crazy. And that's kind of like the scene that you see in the movie th that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you that you see in that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that that that that that that that that that that that him you have to get sober or I'm leaving him and that's when he went crazy. And that's kind of like the scene that you see in the movie where he does get visible with me. He kicked me down the stairs. All right, so again, thank you everyone for your support for this show. We are working hard to produce new episodes. Special thanks to our Patreon members who donate to our cult on a monthly basis. Your contributions help us to keep serving the Sea Word. And so with that, here is part one of Guinevere Turner's incredible story.

And since Guinevere has been on this show, she has published a memoir about her cult upbringing that is fantastic. It's called, when the world didn't end. And we'll put a link to our to our to our to our to our to our to our to our to our to our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our our to our to our to our to our to our co to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our cult to our to our to our to our to our cult. to our to our cultu cult. to our to our to our c. to our c. to our to our to our c. to our to our to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our c. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult to our cult cult to our cult cult to. to. to. to our cult cult cult cult to our cult. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult. to our cult upbringing that is fantastic. It's called When the World Didn't End. And we'll put a link to that in our show notes so you guys can also check it out, read it. It's a wonderful, incredibly written story that covers all the parts that we weren't able to publish on her two-part episode here. So we hope you enjoy the episode and we'll be back next week with a brand new story. Enjoy the music. Take out your life.

Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. You know, there's one thing men of my generation don't talk about enough. It's that aging affects us as well. No one likes getting old. But you look very youthful today, Tyler, I was just going to say. It's not a Instagram filter, Liz. It's the real thing.

Thanks to our new sponsor, OneSkin. As anyone who lives with me would know, I love products, but I'm also very picky about what I use and I am one of those people that stay up to like three in the morning, researching all the ingredients and, you know, figuring out what the best things are for my face. And I have to say, OneSKin's OS1 face cream checks all the boxes. It has everything I love in one bottle. I don't research like you, but I wish I'd have known about peptides a decade ago. And it's not just any peptide. It's their science-backed proprietary peptide. In general, I have a love-hate relationship with eye cream, but I have to say I've been using their OS1 eye cream, and I got that

doy, and I got that dewy glow guys. You do, you do, it's dewy. It's definitely glowy and dewy. And like the guests on this show, One Skin's OS1 creams are deep. They go beyond the superficial layer and target the cells that are causing those fine lines and wrinkles to begin with. One Skin's the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, One Skin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. So get started today guys with 15% off using code in a cult at one skin.co.

That's 15% off at one skin.co with a code in a cult. After you purchase guys, they're gonna ask you where you heard about them. So please tell them we sent you, support our show, and write a letter to email reminding him how youthful he looks. It's July 25th, 1965, a seminal day in music history. The audience at the Newport Folk Festival eagerly awaited their headliner, Bob Dylan. Now Dylan had played this festival in prior years. Mr. Tamarine man play a song for me. In the jing-jangle morning, I come following you. But 1965 was different.

With the popularity of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, rock music was captivating the younger generation. But, for the beat Knicks at Newport, folk music was still king. And after four days of artists strumming their acoustic piece in love ditties, outwalks Mr. Dillon. In his hand was not his usual acoustic guitar, it was a gleaming, auburn-colored Fender Stratocaster electric guitar. Some refer to this moment as the night Bob Dylan went electric. His first song, Maggie's Farm.

I ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more. And the crowd hated it. And the crowd hated it. You know, play rock and roll at a folk festival, man. Dylan finishes Maggie's farm to the taunts of 17,000 upset Falkies, and then launches into like a rolling stone. Once upon a time you dress so fine, through the bumps of dime in your prime. And this time?

The crowd hates it even more. The clearly shaken Bob Dylan finishes his short set and leaves the stage as thousands of dejected fans head for the parking lot. It was anarchy. Or at least as much anarchy one can imagine from a bunch of stoned pacifists. But backstage, looking on, was a wiry, little-known banjo player in a Boston-based jug band. Oblivious to the commotion the great lyricist had just caused. His eyes shot towards the heavens as he received, as he called it, a divine message. He said that it was like, and I quote, what Christ had to do before mounting the cross.

So the gangly man ambled out to center stage. He pulled from his pocket a harmonica and played an improvised version of the classic Christian hymn, Rock of Ages. For ten straight minutes. This man was Mel Lyman. And two years later, he was referring to himself as God and had over 100 ardent followers living on his numerous communes. Including today's guest.

Welcome to Was I an occult? He's... Tyler I'ma Cusie. And today we have... Welcome to Was I an occult. He's Tyler Metham and she's Liz Ayakusie. And today we have. Who am I? I'm Glenavir Turner. I'm a screenwriter and an actor.

Uh, and a regular old kind of writer. What's that called? I'm a book writer? Don't spare my life. Crucify me. Gwine of your co-wrote American Psycho starring Christian Bale. But the first screenplay I wrote was for this film, Go Fish. I had never read a screenplay. I was just with my girlfriend at the time and we were mad at lesbian movies and how much they didn't represent

our lives. They were always about one woman struggling with her sexuality and sadness and isolation and we were just like partying with our friends and having like regular drama in our queer community and you know early 90s. I was like, I read ready to screenplay, like, well, how hard can it be? People walk into a room and they say stuff and they walk out of the room. 25 years later I could say it's a little more complicated than that. Okay, so this story with Guinevere, I totally got into the research of this. I mean, it's got fingers that reached that that that that thuuine thuine thine thine thine thine thine thu and thu and thu, thu, thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, throwne, the, the, the, the, the, to to th. to to to to th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. People the, th. People th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thrown, thrown, thrown, throwne, toe, toe, toe, toeean, toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. People, thae, the, th research of this. I mean it's got fingers that reached to Dustin Hoffman and Italian director Michelangelo Antoni and Dick Cavett and Timothy Leary and Andy Warhol and Mo Austin. I mean my obscure film TV art nerdiness just had a heyday with this but worry not I didn't get too deep. Sounds like you may

have and I loved every second of it. So Guinevere. Gwinevier is from, well I'll just let her tell you. So I don't feel like I'm from anywhere. I really don't. You know, in the way that someone asks you where you're from, they're trying to understand kind of who you are, what your framework is. And I feel like I'm from the Lyman family. As in the divinely inspired musician Mel Lyman.

I e. the harmonica playing Newport Folk Festival self-proclaimed Messiah. It's usually the lead vocalist who thinks he's God, but in this case the harmonica player. But that is not a place. That is a culture and a really specific upbringing. And for Gwenavier growing up, that culture was all she knew. My mom and dad were, they say they were high school sweethearts. I think they were really just drinking buddies who fucked a couple times, which I think is a cooler origin story anyway.

When my mom realized she was pregnant, she told him and he said, I'll marry you and I'll work at my uncle's company and, you know, have a life. And my mom was like, I'm going to join this cult over here and ditched him. Although at the time, her mother didn't know she was joining a cult because... No one joins a cult. You know, in the late 60s it was like anything other than the norm, anything anti-establishment. At the time she was joining a community, the Fort Hill community to be exact, located in a then run-down neighborhood of Boston.

A watchtower rises from the center of Fort Hill, statuesque, a relic from the original American Revolution. It was... Weirdly phallic. My earliest childhood memory is sitting on a rocking horse, looking at this big tower that was in that park. And what does that memory evoke for you? This is going to sound a bit abstract.

It evokes the feeling of this is going to be a memory. It evokes the feeling of consciousness, like, I'm going to remember this this this this this this this this this this this this this to remember this this to remember this this to remember this this to remember this to remember this this this to remember this this this to remember this this this to remember this this this this the the this. the the the the the the the the the the the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood the childhood this this this this memory this this this memory this this this this this this this this this the the the the this is going to be a memory. It evokes the feeling of consciousness, like, I'm going to remember this. I'm like a human being and this is my surroundings. And in this Fort Hill area of Boston, Mel Lyman and his few followers had taken over several empty dilapidated apartment buildings. So in Boston, their compound has five houses. They somehow managed to buy an entire block. It was like a hippie commune. How very 1960s of them.

Except they didn't think of themselves as that. They were very adamant about not being hippies. They were sort of actually anti-hippie. Which is interesting because they seem to be very... Check all the boxes, hippie-wise. Yeah. So the leader was a man named Mel Lyman who's a musician from Oklahoma maybe. He was actually from California and Oregon and he also had a stint in New York City but it was in Boston where Lyman had played in a number of folk bands over the years,

including this, the Jim Quaskin jug band. Let me in there, Hannah. I need some peace. Yeah, I love you still, and I always will. Here is Mel talking about why music is his chosen art form. See we're trying to take like our understanding or our perception of truth and put it in a form so that you can hear it the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the the the the the the, the, the, and, thin, and, and, and, and, and, and, and thin, and together, and together, and together, and, and, and, and…e, and…s'''''''e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. And, the th We're trying to take like our understanding or our perception of truth and put it into form so that you can hear it sensually like with your ears, like a painter takes what he knows of the truth and puts it on canvas so the people can dig it in a sensual way with

their eyes and music happens to be an earthing, that's all. Can you dig it? I can dig it? I'm digging it. I dig it. I dig it. I dig it. I dig it. I dig. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm digging. I'm too. I'm too. I'm too. I'm too. I'm digging. I'm too. I'm too. I. I. I. I. I'm t. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tak. tak. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. I'm digging it too. But, after Lyman's existential experience at the Newport Folk Festival, he leaves the ever-thriving jug band world and writes a very modest book entitled Autobiography of a World Savior. So that kind of tells you a lot about him. He was talking about himself. Jesus, these cult leaders are so predictable. Yes, the Not at All bestseller has one whole review on Goodreads.com. It was probably him. From the grave.

Somebody loves me, God damn it. The opening page of this says, inspired by Uranus, translated through Mercury, presentation of Neptune by special arrangement with Saturn dedicated to you. This dude had a thing about planets. I mean because of his music I could imagine that a smaller groovy press would publish his book. And in addition to his book, the group published a very popular underground counterculture magazine called Avatar that they would just hand out for free in the streets. This magazine is actually what got

Gwenavir's mother initially interested in the group. She was handed one of these brightly colored hippie papers and shortly after started working for their magazine. I don't think getting paid, I'm not sure and then slowly just moved in with them and that was her life. She really doesn't like to talk about it, so it's hard to get information out of her. In 1967, Avatar was labeled by a Boston Municipal Court as being, quote, obscene and was banned from being sold. In fact, many of the shops that did distribute the paper were also charged with distributing

obscene literature. Mostly this was part of Cambridge Mayor Daniel Hayes's celebrated war on hippies. Mayor Hayes, what is your objection to the abundance of hippies in Cambridge? The basic objection I have is the amount of them and the fact that they're moving into our residential areas, causing a great deal of disturbance among our permanent residents. I know that they're influenced by drugs. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the fact that they're moving into our residential areas, causing a great deal of disturbance among our permanent residents. I know that they're influenced by drugs. There's no question about it in my mind.

And as far as I'm concerned, they're sick. Despite the lawsuits, the Fort Hill Group eventually published 24 of these very unique papers. And guess what? Mel Lyman's face was often on the cover. And his writings on the inside. Like this, clever, 1960, beat poetry. Take it away, Liz.

I'm gonna burn down the world. I'm gonna tear everything that cannot stand alone. I'm gonna shove hope up your ass. I'm gonna turn ideals to shit. I'm gonna reduce everything that stands to rubble and then I'm gonna burn that rubble and then I'm gonna scatter the ashes and then maybe somebody will be able to see something as it really is. Watch out. Oh Liz, I can dig it. All you're missing is a beret and a smoking cigarette and a brick wall behind you.

And you'd be a perfect 60s beat poet. Thank you, Tyler. I'm gonna shove hope up your ass now. I can use a little hope in my life, Liz. I hear when it's shoved up anal. It works, it goes quicker through the blood system. Plus it's less calories. Totally who wants to eat hope. Moving on. Okay so with the help of the avatar, Mel's group started to grow. And Mel. They just saw him as the Lord, a supreme being, kind of like a magical creature, like a Christ figure.

He believed that he was God, and he called himself God and his followers called him God. This is him talking with a reporter in 1968. A lot of people want to tell me that they're God too man, you know, that's all right. At least somebody want to be part of what I said I was. If people resent the fact, and people do, of one individual calling himself God, using that word, why do you think they're resented? Because they haven't the courage to call themselves out. And then move up to it. That's the hard part.

His dogma was more twisted than some. The path that he thou- tho everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone thoe everyone tho that he tho tho that he tho tho that he tho tho that he tho that he that he that he that he that he that that he that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's twisted than some. The path that he thought everyone should take is something like this. You need to go through hell to reach enlightenment. It was a punishing philosophy. You have to suffer and you won't know what's happening and you need to feel the void. Perhaps surprisingly, his ideology was not Bible-based. It was a mix of Buddhism, like a little Christianity thrown in, a little total gibberish that makes no sense, and this apocalyptic vision that the world was going to end in 1976, and that we were all going to be taken in a spaceship to live on Venus.

A UFO cult, some might say. Mel was likely inspired by LSD. to be taken into a spaceship to live on Venus. A UFO cult, some might say. Mel was likely inspired by LSD, of which the adults indulged in often. More on that later. As the Lyman family grew, they fixed up the dilapidated Fort Hill buildings they were living in, and soon owned multiple structures. But then the real divine message came to Mel in the form of an uberwealthy harmonica player, Jesse Benton.

Her father was Thomas Hart Benton, who's a very famous social realist painter. Thomas Hart Benton, born 1889 died 1975, an artist at the forefront of the regionalist art movement that came in response to the 1930s Great Depression, and his paintings and murals are actually quite exquisite. His work often depicts ordinary Americans, the working class, farmers, tradesmen, musicians. And this mentality could be what drew his daughter, Jesse, to the Lyman family. She was an heiress, so I believe that they probably, for the most part, sustained themselves in the early days with her money.

Her trust funds helped to grow the group beyond the land of Red Sox and Dunkin' Donuts. And soon the family owned homes in Los Angeles, New York, Kansas and Martha's Vineyard. But Guinevere, she lived on the Boston commune. They didn't even call themselves a commune. They called themselves the communities. And communal living was tight. I grew up with probably like 50 or 60 kids. In all the properties, there's like a kid's house where all the kids mostly are. All the adults would be like in a different house, like having a fancy dinner and playing music and having deep conversations. We were mostly not allowed to go into the adult houses. Or if we were, it was just to like clean it.

And like most cults, there is a certain hierarchy. People who were higher up, didn't have to get a job or earn a living. They would just, I don't know, sit around and drink and boss people around. Kind of like a shoddy game of throne situation. But with less dragons. And less incest? Possibly. Hopefully.

Anyway, in the group, the lower echelon people worked and had day jobs come home and stay all night doing acid and freaking each other out and then get up and go back and work. A lot of people had like legit double lives. These laymen would work regular, often white collar jobs. And whatever money they made, they would hand it over to whoever was in charge of the money for that, that compound. And with this collective money, buy groceries for everybody. You know what I mean? Just like put it into the collective funds for everyone to survive.

But the group was still left with little to go around. At various points were on welfare, there was like government cheese and like a tower of brown sugar that was like as tall as me. I can remember being just like a random woman. thu thu to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi is thi's thi's thi's they's they's thi. thi. they's they's they's they's they's they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's they's they's they's they's they's they's. they's. they's. they's. they's. they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they're, they're, they're, they're, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, they, their their their their tower of brown sugar that was like as tall as me. I can remember being just like a random woman taking me and being like come to the welfare office with me and then I had to pretend to be her kid. I think most of the adult women did that but just like grabbed a random kid. But money wasn't the driving force of this group of outliers. They were happy people getting ready for the spaceship. And to buy the time, they would occasionally release a musical album. This is from the Mel Lyman family band, a lovely cover of the Impressions song, People Get Ready.

People get ready for the train to Jordan. Pick in the passengers Lyman family band, but the vocals were sung by a woman named Maria Muldar. She was heavily recruited to join the cult, but she didn't join, and thank goodness because had she joined, she may have never later recorded one of my favorite 1970s AM radio hits, Midnight at the Oasis. Tyler's soft rock hard on is just growing by the second with this episode. The rock might be the only thing that's soft. Midnight at the Oasis. Send your camel to bed.

The Lyman family prided themselves on staying removed from the outside world, but... A crazy seminal thing that happened when I was four was that they allowed a Rolling Stone journalist to come in and hang out with them for a few days. You know, he was like smoking pot and eating dinner and just being a part of them. But in between the bawling hits and the beans, this Rolling Stone reporter would question Mel's followers. Well, everybody who works and maybe is directly affected by Mel. The community is for one purpose, and that's to serve Mel Lyman.

He wants to make people be real, as real as they can. He's just casual and real and responsive. He can put himself in control of any situation. He's protected almost. Get the image of a father figure. Like a wizard of Oz. Any man that can look at Mel is God. Okay. How do we judge whether he is a benevolent god? And who is there to judge if he is God? Only you, man. And you're gonna find out. When the Rolling Stone magazine came out, they put Mel's picture on the cover. On a five copies for his mother. Oh God. Here he goes. On the cover of the rolling stone.

Come on, it's from the Doctor Hook song, cover of the rolling stone. On the cover of the rolling stone. On the cover of the rolling stone. Want to see my picture on the cover? Ronaugh, five copies for my mother. Yes, he had made the cover, but not for his musical talents. Basically, he just called them a cult and pointed out some of the more questionable things that he witnessed. He talked about this charismatic leader, and I think he made fun of how often people quoted Mel Lyman, how there were framed photos of him, you know, in every room practically, and how the women seemed really subservient.

Mel was hopeful this was going to be his big 15 minutes of fame. And it might have been, just not how he expected. They were shocked about how they were portrayed and pissed. Really pissed. This man, they're just like, he's a liar and he like deceived us and he came in here, pretending to be our friend. He sort of made a, drew a hard line in the sand. Like, we are not going to engage with these people because they're deceitful and they don't understand us,

and they're just here to make fun of us and pray on us. Some of the kids were in real people school and they took everybody out of school and I didn't have exposure to anyone but these people. We were raised to believe that world people quote unquote were evil and could poison you. At one point Mel actually had a wall built around their commune in Boston. Further isolating the group from the outside world. I guess some charismatic leaders can finish building walls. So it was really just about, we're reimagining the ideas of family, and we're preparing

for the end of the world, because the outside world is so corrupt that the whole world is going to end because we ruined everything. We were so discouraged from attachment bonding with our biological parents. They weren't a commune filled with intact nuclear families. No, there was just one. The family. Because like all of the adults just had children with everybody. Like people would just be in a relationship for a couple years, have a kid, and then they would. Like a mild lamin has 13 kids with maybe 10 different women, something of that. Now you have communal living here. Do you feel that this indicates that you might be living a life of promiscuity here? We don't believe in free love and free sex, but in the highest principles of love, and that's what we're devoted to.

You know, there were dramas where somebody cheated on someone and there was drama where like somebody got pregnant with someone that was in a different relationship. This is a bunch of people in their 20s. I mean, of course they're going to have sex and have drama and cheat on each other and have fights, but it was all very convoluted. But very normal to me, and we would refer to people as married, even though they weren't married. So my mom had me and then she had my sister with a different father who's also in the family and who then committed suicide six months later after my sister was born. Oh no. Yeah. Uh, why? He was playing a poker game with Mel Lyman, got up from the table, walked into the room, and shot himself in the head. That is all we know. Come on. Yeah, and he was in a relationship with my mom at the time. Yeah, she's pretty

fact about that. So it's my sister. In terms of the cult's hierarchy. There's status and then there's sort of like lowly people. And my mom was kind of th th th th th th th th th th th th my my my my my my my my my my my my my my my my the th, there's status and then there's sort of like lowly people and my mom was kind of lowly. She wasn't like popular or powerful. And when Guinevere was just four. My mom moved to New York to get a job in finance and so then I really never saw her. They shipped me to the farm in Kansas. So now Guinevere is separated from her birth mother. Both still in the cult, her mother was working in New York, and four-year-old Guinevere was sent to Kansas to work on the farm. Jesse's father, the painter Thomas Benton, had created a painting of a Kansas farmhouse, and he'd sold it for $42,000.

Jesse's father, the painter Thomas Benton, had created a painting of a Kansas farmhouse and he'd sold it for $42,000. And with the proceeds, he purchased an actual farm. A 280 acre farm in Marshall, Kansas. Life imitating art. The farm in Kansas, they were trying to be self-sustaining. So there was all kinds of crops and animals. They basically had a child labor workforce

because we would be in fields from early in the morning until it got too hot in the afternoon. Feeding goats, milking goats, milking cows, brushing horses, feeding chickens, gathering eggs, plucking the headless chickens, and pulling out their guts. Mulching the headless chickens and pulling out their guts. Mulching the strawberry field. Laundry, laundry, laundry, laundry, hanging laundry.

I feel like half my childhood was hanging laundry and clotheslines. Cleaning, cleaning, cleaning. Vacuuming. Oh, I hated vacuuming. Those big houses and like, you're little, and it's like, the rug would seem like it was 5,000 miles long and a lot of preserving things for winter. So jars and jars and jars of different things canned because they were really trying to only go to the store for toilet paper or whatever.

So like a lot of our clothes were handmade. Just trying to create a way to recede as much from the real world as possible. There was like one huge giant bed that was built across the entire room with bunk beds on top of it and we all slept there. They probably like 20 kids in a room but then there were always lots of babies. We were just like a pileup kids. That didn't have any any actual like parent, right? You know so like no one person was just looking out for you. And those that were looking out? Well they were quite young themselves. They were almost all like in their 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their th. their their their their their their th. th. th. their their their there were like 20, like 20, like 20, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. th. th. their, th. their, their, their, th. their, th. their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, likethose that were looking out? Well, they were quite young themselves. They were almost all in their 20s. They were really young people who are making it up as they went along.

And it's amazing that we all lived. Well, I guess you could say that about any parents, right? Yeah, we all make it up as we go along. I have two kids. I don't know what their their their their their their kids. their. I was. I was. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have their. I have their. I have thoes. I have thoes. I have tha. I have toes. I have toes. I have to. I have thoes. I have tod. I have thoes. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have to. to. to. to. to. to. to. I have to. I have to. I have to. I have that. I mean like in general I think in that era you know no seatbelts secondhand smoke like that was everybody's experience of my generation or most people but then it was extra you know knives, machines, axes, so much like tree climbing and just being gone in the woods for days and getting bit by snakes. The wood burning stoves and as kids we would play a game

we'd be chopping wood and if you found like a really nice piece of cedar, you would say, this is your heart and you would put it on the chopping block, and then whoever's heart it was, it was their job to grab it before the axe came down. We played it all the time, and then, you know, where the story is going to go is that eventually, like a kid had all of these fingers, the upper half, chopped off with an axe. Normally the family didn't believe in doctors, but in this particular instance... That kid went to the doctor. Thank God. They sent me out to go get the fingers and put them in a bag. Just another day's work on the farm. But it wasn the the th th a th th a th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the them in a bag. Just another day's work on the farm.

But it wasn't all work and severed finger collecting. Even though working in fields sounds hard, and it was, it didn't feel like that. It felt like a time when we were all together as kids. When it was quit in time from the fields, we would all get to run and go to the creek. And it was really fun, and there was like a rock you could dive off of, and that was like the best part of the day. And singing. Singing and playing instruments. This is really fun. Every single person played an instrument. You kind of had to. I played the banjo.

It was like music all of had to. I played the banjo. It was like music all the time. I grew up singing, like the Big Rock Candy Mountain. On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees, the lemonade springs where the blue birds sings in the big rock candy mountains. And all of these old folk songs that are not attributed to anyone in particular, bury me not on the lone prairie. With the coyote town, and the wind blows free. Down in the valley.

That is so long. Mel and his family were still making music. And my love, my love come rolling down. But in addition to making his own music, Mel would make tapes for his followers. You know, essentially mixed tapes, but they were like, on reels. It was Billy Holiday. And Bing Cosby and Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong and the Andrews sisters, you know, all sort of 30s, 40s music, nothing that was contemporary at all. The idea was that all of this music meant something, that it was important music, there was a message

in it, and so there was an element of it being kind of a test. Do you get it? Do you feel the power of this music? And when he made one, then we would have to sit down and listen to the whole thing and write him a letter about what we thought about it. Dear Melvin, we called the Melvin, I really loved the tape, the song, The Breeze and I reminded me of sitting under a willow tree with the tendrils blowing over me. That is something that I actually wrote. I'm just breathing along with a breeze, trailing the rails, roaming the sea.

I remember hearing Ray Charles, I can't stop loving you. And just feeling so moved by it, and for the first time, thinking about the power of music. And so to this day, when I hear that song, it reminds me of happy times of being a kid. I can't stop loving you. I've made up my mind. Mel also had weird rules about films. He had a list of movies he called The Lord's List.

I've never taken orders from anyone. As long as I live, I'll never take orders from anyone. I'm young and strong and nothing can touch me. The Lord's List, if they were on TV, we had to watch. So this dude would also like underline the TV guide the Lords list movies if they were playing. Dark Victory with Betty Davis, to have and have not with Bogart and Bacall, Night of the Lonely Hunter and Oddman Miss Jane Pittman which is Sicily Tyson back in the day. I got a great film education as a kid like more than most people my age I know all those

movies and all those movie stars and just that whole world. Because that was his generation, I guess. This movies he grew up with. I'm hard to get Steve. All you have to do is ask me. You know what you're getting into? It's going to be rough. In between all the movies and the music, they also taught traught their trald their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. the movies, their. their. the movies, the movies, the movies, their, their. the movies, the movies, the movies, their. their. their. their. their. their. the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the movies, the music, the movies, the movies, the movies, the music, tha, tha, the. Wea, the. the. Wea, the. the. thea, theatea. thea' thea' thea' thea' thea' their thea' theateate. Wea, the. Wea, they also taught trades to the children. Because what good are seven-year-olds if you can't put them to work? All the boys were trained to be carpenters and they were just very into building houses

and building things and men doing manual labor but then being weighted on hand and foot. We girls were learning how to make clothes and cooking, cleaning. As girls we were kind of never allowed to not be doing something with our hands if we were inside. Those houses are full of like chairs with like hand-embroidered seats and so much embroidery. So much embroidery. For education there was a schoolhouse located on the compound except nobody was particularly qualified to teach. But the thing about these people, these were like intelligent, educated people, not dummies, but not very structured.

They tended to just teach the kids what they were interested in, which is not a bad thing except it's not very balanced. So I was like way ahead of everyone in terms of English and words, but in math, I was like at a fourth grade level, because it just didn't th th, th, th, th, th, th, they they they they they they they didn't th, they didn't they didn't th, th, th, they didn't th, th, the, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like and words, but in math, I was like at a fourth grade level Because it just didn't show an aptitude for it. So they're like, yeah, whatever you're not going to need that. Interesting. Because you're gonna be here for the rest of your life. Right. Right. You don't need math. I remember one guy, when he would just, like, it was supposed to be history, but he would just smoke and talk. the the the they. It they. It was they. It was th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. So, th. So, th. th. So, th. So, th. th. th. th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. toee. to. to. to. the. thi. th. the. th. th be history, but he would just smoke and talk, whatever he felt like talking about.

It was totally random. Remember the first page of Mel's book? Inspired by Uranus, translated through Mercury, presentation of Neptune by special arrangement with Saturn, dedicated to you? For an entire year he just taught us about the astrology of the president? Like both Abraham Lincoln and FDR are Aquarius is, and that's, and that's, and that's, and that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was the, it was the, it was the, it was the, it was the, it was the, it was thioling, it was thiol, it was thii, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, it was thi, thi, thi. It's totauioli. It was totally totally totally totally totally thioli. It was thi, it was thi, it just taught us about the astrology of the presidents. Like, both Abraham Lincoln and FDR are Aquarius's, and that's why the new deal worked. I could stop it. They were very, very into astrology. Yeah.

Wow. Oh, and watch out because your star side could come back to bite you in the ass. You're very much your sign. Some of it was scary because you could get in trouble just for like, don't give me that Scorpio rising. And I didn't like have my own birthday. It was just a Gemini birthday. And that was true for all the signs. They'd even call kids by their sign.

Instead of David, David would be referred to as David Libra. I personally think astrology is bunk. Our personalities come from a combination of nature and nurture, not because I happen to be born in November. Such a Scorpio thing to say, Tyler. Sure, said the Virgo. But it wasn't just the stars telling this group what to do. They were really into the Weeji board.

And they had spirits that they would talk to do. They were really into the Weegee Board and they had spirits that they would talk to and they had logs of what those conversations were like books and books and books and books of these conversations and as kids we were only allowed to talk to one spirit. She was like the kid's spirit. Her name was Fadra and so one time Fadra said that I was lazy. I was not, you know, obviously someone was just fucking with me, but, but I like was devastated, but the spirit had told me that I was lazy. I was like, five. And I just remember like running around the house, like,

emptying every ashtray and cleaning it and like, just being like, I'm gonna prove to Fadra, that I'm not lazy. I'm not lazy. So, Gwenea. So, So, so So the to the rules, purely in the hope. To be good enough to have the spaceships come and take us to Venus, which is about honesty

and knowing yourself and being humble and kind of like shapeshifting best self thing, you know, with a 60s flavor to it. Remember when Mel said that the world was going to end? Well, on January 5th, 1974, he told all the children to put on their best clothes and wait for the UFOs. This was the night the world was going to end. Spoiler alert, it doesn't. So he did the standard cult leader excuse and blamed his people for the world not ending. He said the group wasn't ready and that they would need to start from scratch. When the world didn't end, Melbimon said we were going to start the calendar at zero. It's very confusing because I have these diaries when I was kid and it says like 00-0-0-01, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, th, the, th, th, th, the, th, th, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, the, the, the, th, the, the, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the world, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. the thi. the the the the thi. the very confusing because I have these diaries when I was kid and it says like 00, 0-01, 02, but it's actually 1979, 1980. So when

the world didn't end, Malayman said we're not going to acknowledge daylight savings time anymore. I don't really know what the logic was. So for half the year we'd be like world time and our time. And the rules titaned. The rules were kind of ever shifting. As kids, it was shut up, be quiet, don't lie, stay out of the way. They could be particularly cruel. The punishment was often being shunned. Nobody's allowed to talk to you. People would be locked in a closet for like an entire day. There was a lot of that kind of punishment.

They tried to make us have a year of silence. It didn't last that long, but there was at least like a month where we weren't, nobody was allowed to talk, not the adults or the kids. But sometimes the punishment was physical. We would get up to go work in the fields really early and so it would be chilly and then as the day got hotter, you know, we would have the the thoe the flars and we would their their their their their thea... tha. tha. And tha. And, tha. And, tha. And, than, than, tha-n, tha-nip, their, their, their, they, they, they. And, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. they. they. they. And, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And, no. And, no. And, no. And, no. And, no. And, no. And, t. And, ttttttttttttttt. And, tttttttttttttttttttoday, today, the. And, the. And, nobody, the. And, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, no, nobody, nobody, no. And, no. And, we would take them up, but, you know, we're kids, like, we would leave our clothes in the field. And so they would collect all the clothes that we left in the field and put them in this box. And then on Saturdays, it would be the Saturday box. And I'd get everybody together and pick up a piece of clothing and whose jacket, and to say that it was yours and you would get paddled in front of everybody. Someone had made a paddle, it's like a wood paddle like this big.

But it was such a normal part of life, the Saturday box, and the Saturday box was always full. So it would be like it didn't make us not do our clothes. Me and a couple of the girls, we would put on like 12 pairs of underwear on Saturdays. And then we would get spanked where we couldn't really feel it but they wouldn't know. This little trick may have helped ease the torment momentarily but it didn't stop it. Gwenevere's childhood was a constant state of fear. The devil was going to take over my soul that I would get in trouble and be isolated.

I was kind of constantly scared of being demoted, of being either sent away or shun. And she was often punished purely because of her place in the pecking order. The thing is that almost every one of the kids was treated in accordance to the status of their parent. So there's also like a replicated hierarchy among the kids. There was kind of like, you know, like Jesse's three kids were obviously more special and magical and all of the Lyman kids were like the top-tier kids and so on and so forth.

She is referring to Jesse Benton. Remember the painter's daughter? Well, she was no longer just a benefactor of the group. She had actually become Mel's wife. Colt leaders pray on the rich. Look at any cult, Nexium, for example. I almost guarantee a trust funder is right by his or her side. And a trust funder is a perfect target. At times, feeling undeserved of all their wealth,

trust fund kids often look for a purpose, a righteous cause to donate their riches to. Because of her mother's lowly status, Guinevere would have been a very low-tiered kid. Except for the Darya bought me. Wait, did she say bought her? I think so. What happened was Jesse Benton and Meliman each had a bunch of kids, but they only had one kid together. Her name is Daria, and she was a wild child who just wouldn't

behave and for some reason I could get her to behave. Darya said to me like yeah I liked you so much I just asked my mom if I could have you and she said yes but it was like a great honor you know what I mean that I was chosen and so I kind of moved up in the ranks really quickly and by the time maybe I was like nine I had much higher status than my mother.. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the and the and the and the and theeeee and theeeeeeeee and thee and the the the the thethe ranks really quickly and by the time maybe I was like nine. I had much higher status than my mother. She ain't gonna work on Bell's Farm no more. Here he goes, I can't stop from you guys. I apologize.

This episode has everything. I'm sorry. It's good actually pretty good. It's a bell, but he is he? It's not bad. Yeah. All you need to do is write great lyrics and play guitar and be an icon for a generation. Being in the inner circle of leadership definitely comes with special perks.

For one, you get to travel with Jesse, mostly just as a servant to the princess, really. Cinderella just got handed the glass slipper. Hey, if you're going to be in a cult, you might as well be at the top of the food chain, right? But the tricky thing about cult leader says, you never know when they're going to ask for their magic slipper back. And without that, the princess is just a housekeeper in a fancy dress.

Join us next week on was I an occult for part two of Guinevere's remarkable journey. We were at the kids house and then somebody called me, they said you're wanting at the big house, which was the adult house? Everybody was like, that can't be good. Let's just say it's not your typical getting out story. Also, if you guys liked the music in this episode... Oh, they did. I've made a Spotify playlist of all the songs for you. And I made a cassette tape.

You can find the Spotify link in our show notes. And you can find the cassette cassette tapapapapapass cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette cassette the cassette the cassette the cassette the cassette the cassette the cassette the cassette tape stuck in the tape deck of my bitch and trans-and. Which you don't have. Not yet. I don't think you ever will. One can dream. Thank you all for listening. And until next week, if you're going to write a book called Autobiography of a World Savior, Make sure you are one. Crucifare me. Wasaina Colt is a production of Iheart Radio and a story produced and written by Liz Ayacousy. And me, Tyler Miesom. Executive producer is Maya Cole Howard. Supervising producer is Catherine Bert Canton. Audio editor is Chandler Mays. Additional story producer is Ari Bessiel.

Special thanks to David Brammer. And the was Iana cult fan of the week is Denali Calhoun of Alaska. Thank you, Denali, for sharing our stuff with your followers. So we get more followers. And rule the Oasis. Put your camel to bed. Midnight at the oasis. Put your camel to bed.

I'll be your midnight dancer. Prancer. And you can be my chief. That's racist. You can be my chief. I didn't write it. Cancel it. Cancell that song.