Was I In A Cult? - Zendik Farm PT2: “Embracing the Death Culture”

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

In the gripping conclusion to Jeanne Nolan's story, the idyllic facade of Zendik Farm finally shatters. Beneath its promises of revolution and a self-sustaining community lies a darker reality: broken families and devastating power plays. Jeanne recounts her heart-wrenching separation from her baby, the unraveling of relationships under the commune’s twisted rules, and her ultimate escape after 17 long years. Through painful truths and a hard-won sense of clarity, Jeanne forges a new life outside the cult, turning trauma into a legacy of love, family, and a thriving organic gardening business that inspires others to embrace sustainability, growth, and connection… and all in a very healthy and not-at-all culty way of course. This is a story of resilience, transformation, and the extraordinary ability to cultivate beauty from even the darkest of places. _____ Buy Jeanne’s book here!!  Jeanne’s incredible business “The Organic Gardener” https://www.theorganicgardener.net/  And if you want more Zendik, read Helen Zuman’s memoir, “Mating in Captivity” _____ Stop Scooping! With the Littler Robot. As a special holiday offer, Whisker is offering up to $100 off Litter-Robot bundles. AND as a special offer to listeners, you can get an additional $50 off when you go to stopscooping.com/CULT .  _______ Get holiday gifts here! Quince.com/CULT  _______ Resist aging at the cellular level, try Qualia Senolytic. Go to Qualialife.com/CULT for up to 50% off and use code ‘CULT' at checkout for an additional 15% off. ________ Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult   Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail]  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys): https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult   Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com 

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, Podcast One, this network or any of their respective affiliates. I've spent a lot of time since Zendik Farm thinking and talking a lot about the wonderful things I learned there. But this is a newer stage for me really deeply examining the ugliest stuff. I feel like crying at this point because the way trauma sits in a body has really made me face the really dark side of Zendik Farm and of Errol and Wolf and even of the people that participated

in things that were not right there. I have to include myself in that. ["Was I in a Cult?" by The Caps plays in background.] Welcome back to Was I in a Cult, everyone. I'm your host, Liz Iacuzzi. And I just sit here and look pretty. What's your name? I'm just sitting here looking pretty.

You still get a name. My name is Tyler. Tyler, threesomemesum. Just here. Tyler, people may not know you and they may want to get your name. Yeah, okay, it's Tyler. It's Tyler Meesom. Great. They know who it is. No one's jumping into this podcast cold, especially in episode two.

Yeah, they might be. I'm assuming they know who I am. They've got my picture on their wall. You mean on their altar. They pray to me. Anyway, enough about you pretty looking man. I want to talk about today's episode, but I will let you intro it if you like it. Sure. Go for it. Okay, so today is the part two of Jeannie Nolan's 17-year experience at Zendik Farms,

which is an organic self-sustaining community of revolutionaries who are ready to change the world. Now, this is a cult that both Liz and I have been mildly obsessed with. I love Genie. I love this story. I love this group. I don't know, perhaps it's the discussion of fresh produce and gardening. Yeah, probably. Or probably the farm filled with hippie chicks turning compost and providing linens and candles for the sex cabins. And you see a man, he's got dirt under his fingernails and you look at him and you're like, that guy hasn't showered in two weeks. I'm going to ask him on a date tonight.

We all have our little cult fantasies. You stay in yours. Now, this is part two. Part one, of course, was last week. Blah, blah, blah. Go listen to that. You know the drill. They know the drill. No one's going to jump to episode two. So we don't really need to say that. Now, last week, Genie started to introduce us to the way of the Zendik, the rules around hierarchy, the rules around sex and dating, as well as introduced us to the leaders, Wolf and Errol. But today, get ready guys, because if that was your appetizer, today's episode is the big, fat, juicy steak entree. You just can't get away from that food reference, can you?

Mmmmm. It's a mashed potatoes and gravy. You just can't get away from that food reference, can you? Some mashed potatoes and gravy. Don't tell me you're still eating Thanksgiving leftovers, Tyler. Do not leftover shame me, Liz. It's still November. It is December. It's not. It's December, but it's close enough to November that you round down. It is December 6th. Now, since there is so much to cover today, you guys,

I'm gonna just shut up now. Tyler, time to just look pretty and let Jeannie take the floor. Or have the floor? Do you take the floor or do you have it? I would say you have the floor because you can't really take the floor. I'm gonna let her dominate the floor.

I'm going to let were changing the world. We were living by example. And that mostly fell under the aspect of Wolf's philosophy, equilibrium, which is the combination of the words ecology and equilibrium. Well, would you look at that, another portmanteau, Tyler. Oh, well look at Liz. Studying, remembering, learning her English. Truthfully, I never thought we would ever talk

about portmanteaus again on this show. Dreams do come true. Dream-oo. Dreams and true come together. An equilibrium society would be a society that the government, the individuals, the sort of ethos of humanity, that we consider the earth first in every decision we make. Our primary purpose here is not to make money to provide for our own material needs and comforts, but we're here to try to live in balance with the earth and each other to find sort of our place

in the universe be that turning massive compost piles alongside 15 of my friends or mucking a goat barn or sneaking into a Lollapalooza to sell our magazine or whatever it was, it was imbued with this sense of we were really doing something impactful, that it was positive impact on people, planet and future. The age old mantra of cults, we are changing the world. Yeah, but it worked, right? I mean, Zendik's philosophy spoke to people desperate for meaning in a chaotic world, and it promised them a way to matter, to make a difference. But the devil's in the details with Zendik, or in this case, in the compost. The dev- The dev tales.

Zendik Farm was started in 1968. I arrived in 1987. So much of what I know about the origin story is from stories I was told. Wolf was a writer and a musician. He was supposedly part of a group of men in LA that were some of the first people to sort of get onto the health food kick. Weight lifting and eating fruits and veggies and nuts,

you know what I mean? And then there's the story of when he and Errol met, and she might've been 20 years younger than him. She just thought he was amazing and she read his work and she was like, you're going to change the world and I'll help you. So she was the first recruit. They were musicians. Then they wanted to live with the musicians, go deeper into their music and their art.

Wolf's parents had some land. So they moved on to this remote commune and Errol and Wolf became the leaders. This was late 60s, early 70s. They were a monogamous couple for a while and he wanted to open their relationship sexually. I think that Wolf pushed them into a lot of the communal territory, the open relationship, and I think it might have been quite hard on her. I think she might have liked to have, you know, had a more normal life and not had all these people that she had to be in charge of and be their mother figure, and she herself

was trapped in it. And Wolf, like many cult leaders, loved to pontificate and philosophize, often going against the mainstream ideologies of the time. Wolf's writing in general was critical of mainstream society. From there, he got more and more philosophical. philosophical, a lot of what he did was rewrite age-old philosophic essentials or truths in sort of a hip or younger lingo that, you know, young people in the 80s and 90s could understand a little better. He wrote a lot of things that resonated with Chen and Chen then became another spokesperson for the movement

who brought Wolf's philosophy and language into an even more youth-oriented voice. Chen again was essentially second in command. He was the inner circle, charming with all-American good looks. And he is the one that convinced Jeannie to go to the farm in the first place. He was the inner circle, charming with all American good looks. And he is the one that convinced Jeannie to go to the farm in the first place. Most people you will talk to were either drawn to the farm through Chen's writing or talked

to him on the phone or connected with him. He was a very inspiring, exciting kind of human, but I always knew that he was a wounded guy, that's for sure. Chen was 14 years older than me, and we got together certainly within a year of me being on the farm. I remember finding him to be affectionate and enjoying our time. He was one of my absolutely closest colleagues. Now, as Jeannie's time evolved on the farm, she, too, became part of the inner circle. We've got to get more people in our inner circle.

Yeah, we do. We need a bigger circle. Yes, I was a leader. Chen and I would run the morning meeting. He'd have a clipboard. It was like a work list meeting. Who's doing what? For many years, I oversaw the farming and ran a pretty good sized grow operation,

couple acres, going from first being an apprentice and intern to doing rounds with Errol once every few weeks. I'd take notes, we'd walk the fields, we'd come up with what needed to be done, and then I would organize and run the gardening crews. And like most cult leaders, Errol mastered the art of keeping people on edge, using conditional approval and unpredictable behavior

to create a constant need to stay in her favor. Tyler can relate. Yes, ma'am. To stay in her favor. Tyler can relate. Yes, ma'am. To be in my favor. Just not be belittled in front of all of our listeners. I do have quite unpredictable behavior, I will agree. So for those close to her, like Jeannie, it wasn't just about pleasing Errol. It was about avoiding being on her bad side, like this dynamic.

You know, some parts of being close to Errol felt good. Other parts, it felt like being near, like, a very unpredictable, explosive person. I definitely was pretty obsessed with being on Errol's right side. And I think that I definitely had some loss of self in that obsession. And she was a very toxic leader. She led with a lot of fear. Because she had the ability to be totally cold-hearted, you know, she carried a lot of deep trauma that she revisited on everybody on a daily basis, including very

young children. Because like most cult leaders, they usually have some deep personal trauma that informs how and why they act the way they do. It's funny how that happens, huh? There was always some child backstory where their mommy didn't take care of them or something that they'd carry into their cult. Or they were sadly sexually abused or something like that. And for Errol, aka Carol, this is really no different.

She got pregnant, I believe she was 17. She grew up in New York City and so she had the baby and she was trying her best to raise him. She had an apartment and a job and the next door neighbor would help take care of the baby. And she sort of hatched a plan that if her mother and her extended family could give her a certain amount of money, not all that much, she could raise her son.

So she went to the family and their response was, we want you to go talk to a woman named Yeti. And so she went to Yeti and it turned out that this was an adoption agency. And right on the other side of the room she had a lovely Jewish couple, the dad was a doctor, they had a lovely home and they wanted her son. And she really had no choice. Her family wouldn't give her the money and she gave her son up for adoption and she proceeded to have like a nervous breakdown and really really lost her mind. I think Errol had a

lot of pain, a lot of pain and so she was unable to live around people who were in cohesive love relationships, which then led her to be very overly involved, heavily handed, cruel to mothers, children and families in a way that was very damaging, very ugly, you know. So she wanted to take every child away from every mother, one way or another. And it was so unconscious. But of course, she had a way to justify this inhumane way of raising a child. That was very tied into the idea that we were all conditioned by the death culture. And so within that became the story that of course every mother is corrupt, every father is corrupt.

So when it was convenient to Errol, when it was time to chop that parent down, it was easy to say she's a bad mother. She was raised in the death culture. Her love is not good for her child. And the whole community would buy it. One of my friends who was from Canada, her baby was like six or eight months old nursing, and Errol and Wolf decided she should go back to Canada and that her baby should stay with the dad. And then she would go about making sure that that was not going to be a bonded, healthy,

beautiful raising of a child. It's awful, but also so obvious of why and where this is all coming from. Her own personal trauma of losing her own child. I mean, I have a two-year-old. If someone were to take him away from me and give him to be raised by another family, I would not be able to go on. So no, I don't feel bad for her, but it's sort of like the origin story for any villain, you know? You now understand their pain that drives them to act the way they do. It is the cruel cycle of trauma, isn't it? She recreated her own pain, likely without realizing it, over and over again.

And over and over again. Four of my closest friends I witnessed go through this process. One of them was forced to give her child up for adoption when he was six, these women. Some of them, the fathers were like forced to leave. She loved to kick a father out. And then she loved to try to get people to sue each other.

That was very weird. She really wanted the parents, kick one parent out and then the parent that stayed, have them sue and do like a legal thing. It was so fucked up. We helped raise each other's children. This was the dark side of Zendik Farm. And as devoted as Jeannie was, deep down she intuited that all is not well in the state of Zendik.

Assisted by a bit of organic Texas cow patties psilocybin. Mmm, the good stuff. I mean, I clearly remember when I was 27, we didn't do drugs, but we had taken some mushrooms. It was Texas. They were growing in the cow patties and a group of people put mushrooms. I saw a deeper level of truth, as often happens with mushrooms. And I remember it dawned on me. This is where I want to live, but I'm not going to be able to have a kid here. And I knew that my clock was ticking.

I was having that kind of knowledge that having children was definitely important to me. You ever done mushrooms? Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not endorsing here, but I will say that I've had life changing moments with the help of mushrooms. I did mushrooms once. And this is a true story.

Before my son was born. This is so crazy. I went to my own... I stood next to my mother as she was giving birth to me. Whoa. I stood next to my mother as she was giving birth to me. Whoa. And then I traveled from that experience into me giving birth to my son before he was born. Hand that shit over.

I want some of that. It was wild. Why are we selling via hemp? Cause mushrooms ain't legal yet. Well. Yeah, it was wild. I was like, I just witnessed my own birth. Wow.

You guys want to know what I saw once? What? Fish. Like the concert? Like the band. Yeah. All right. Let's face it, guys, we all gotta eat. For some, eating is just a necessity.

But for foodies like us, it's a pleasure. Yeah, you know, the term foodie has just kind of become pedestrian. I prefer gourmand. Your snob, your food snob, Tyler. Yeah. And as a gourmand, I love Green Chef. So Green Chef is the number one meal kit for clean eating. So you can feel good about creating good for you meals with limited processed ingredients.

Here's the deal guys, every week you'll find menu options for every lifestyle from Mediterranean meals to customized plant-based options and they even have certified gluten-free recipes. Yeah, and taste what's in season. So recipes now include fresh seasonal organic produce like delicata squash, cranberries, Brussels sprouts, green beans, maple syrup, and pumpkin. I know you're drooling right now, Liz. Delicata squash, my gosh.

I'll tell you guys, there's nothing better than looking on your front porch and seeing a box of this food. Yeah, we get Green Chef and we have not been disappointed. It's seriously gourmand worthy. Go to greenchef.com guys, slash wasi50 and use our code, wasi50 50 for 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next two months. That's code was I 50 at green chef comm slash

Was I 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next two months I just said that I know but I said it better Green chef. It's the number one meal kit for eating well. I got the last word in. Boom. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. So it's the gift giving season, which means you get way too many catalogs in the mail and a wish list from your kids that's filled with a bunch of plastic things that they don't

really need. Am I right? Yeah. And frankly, the best gift you can give your kids is the lifelong gift of money skills. That couldn't be more true. And that's where Greenlight comes in. So Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids' spending and saving, while kids and teens build money confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills. It's one of the reasons why I wish I had a cell phone when I was growing up.

For this app, because this app lets kids learn how to save, invest, and spend wisely with games that teach money skills in a fun and accessible way. So we use it, my son loves it, he checks his balance on the app, and he has a green light card he carries in his wallet. So cute. He pulls out the card when he and he has a Greenlight card he carries in his wallet. So cute. He pulls out the card when he wants to buy something. It's really adorable. Millions of parents and kids are learning about money on Greenlight. It's the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and families to navigate this crazy

life together. So sign up for Greenlight today at Greenlight.com slash cult. That's Greenlight.com slash cult to try Greenlight today. Greenlight.com slash cult. And so Jeannie, she found herself at a crossroad of sorts. She was deeply committed to Zend-X revolutionary ideals, but the desire to have children was growing stronger. And she was beginning to realize that these two dreams might not peacefully coexist. But who she wanted kids with?

Well, she hadn't quite figured that out yet. Until one day, when a young man by the name of Verdant calls the farm. I answered, spoke with him for a minute or two, and then Verdant and I spoke. We were very quickly speaking the same language. He was working full-time at a veterinarian's office. He loved animals. He'd gotten a copy of the magazine. And so I told him about our apprenticeship.

And because he was young, I was like, well, if your parents want to talk to somebody's parents they could call my parents. So Verdant's dad called my mom, they spoke and my parents conveyed that it was a good place for me, they were doing good work. His parents did their due diligence and then they put him on a train to Texas. Verdant arrived at the farm when I was 27, and I felt very strongly connected to him. This would have been when Verd was 16. He's 10 years younger than me. So even on a commune where it was sexually open and there was often

a pretty large age difference between people, this was pretty strange. The first time he really caught my eye was at a dance party. Yeah, so we had really fun dance parties. That was a positive at Zendik. It was really just a big fun boogie down. And somehow Verd and I, we take in each other's hands, we're dancing. And I'm like, holy shit, this kid is a really good dancer. He has great rhythm. Good bums and good moves do it for Jeannie. And you know what? I respect that. good moves, do it for Jeannie. And you know what? I respect that. Yeah. Do you think, uh, Vernon was also Calipigius? Calipigus? Calipigus? He had to be. Had to be. The combination of being 16 and a good dancer almost assures

his Calipigianess-ness. Calipigus-ness. For those who forgot, Calipygus is... The elitist white way of describing a nice ass. Hey, Verdant, I know you're listening, and guess what? I assure you, your Calipygian-ness is on display. I bet he's still Calipygus, probably. Sure he's Calipygus. I bet he's still Calipygus.

Jeannie, let us know. I failed to ask you that very important question. You know, Chen was sort of right away, like you guys are kind of hitting it off. So the three of us always had this very interesting little love triangle. I don't know what to say. So yeah, Chen was there encouraging me, even though it was quite an age difference and illegal. I mean, we did not have sex right away at all. Things progressed very slowly between Verdant and I, somewhat reigned back by Errol and the farm. And that was really the problem because the cult leaders want people focused on the group. And when one is in love, you're focused on each other.

Verdant and I loved each other completely. And the two desperately tried to keep their love hidden from the rest of the commune, but... I remember a meeting was called. This was in Errol's kitchen. And I was there with everyone. Then they called Verdant in and you guys are over. Your relationship is bad for both of you.

You guys have to break up or leave and get an apartment together. So at this time, I was 31, he was 21. Certainly we could have said, okay, great, we love each other, this place sucks, it's a cult, let's go get an apartment. But that was not where we were at. You know, we were revolutionaries, we were Zendik warriors, we were true believers, and the world outside was a death culture and not appealing at all. was a death culture and not appealing at all. And so instead they found themselves bowing to the will of Errol,

whose damaged psychology shaped the rules and tore lives apart under the guise of revolution. At this point, Wolf was dead and Errol and Fawn were starting to shift things. Okay, so quickly, Fawn, she is Errol and Wolf's natural born child. And then began this idea that the sort of top people in the inner core should be partnered with the right people. Part of it was around Errol wanted a new lover and she was older by then and kind of

needed some help to figure out if any of the young men would even go for her. There was a meeting and there was like this conscious discussion about who would be good couplings for the top people and who should Chen be with. Chen was starting to get the idea that he wanted to have a kid and you know, well Chen and Shay would be an incredible couple and so Chen approached me and you know, he was like my best friend and there were a couple of other times when he and I had dates and tried to have a relationship and for numerous reasons

We didn't have really special sexual chemistry and he's kind of presented to me as like a way to be safe, you know So he and I start a relationship shortly after that. Well, how about having a baby? So I remember walking with Errol and Chen and saying guys I can't do it. I can't have a baby here I'm not a mom who can be separated from my child. It's not gonna work. And Errol said to me, we're not gonna do that with you. You know, you and Chen, you guys are gonna make an incredible child.

We won't do that to you. I put my trust in them. Okay, I'll be safe. I'll have a baby with Chen. So I got pregnant pretty quickly. But there was still Verdant, whom she'd genuinely loved. Yes, it was a love triangle. And I remember really clearly being up on this deck of one of the houses with Chen,

and we were kind of embracing, a bit of a kiss. I looked down, maybe 30 feet below, there's this flower garden, these gorgeous wrapped walls, and there's Verdant. He and I love each other. I'm kissing Chen, I'm looking in Verdant's eyes, and the whole love triangle, pain. And it was like, I felt like I was caught in like a game of thrones, kings and queens and chess pieces. And it was just so dynastic and bizarre. And Verdant, ever creative human that he is, was like, I am getting the fuck out of here. And he went to Europe to sell the magazine.

He stayed in the cult, but simply relocated. And let's be real, I get it, dude. Yeah, totally. I'd skip out, too. Yeah. All right. We will be right back. And story tease.

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So now Jeannie is pregnant with Chen's child and eventually gives birth to her beautiful baby girl, Thea. Now, for me, the moment Thea was born, my child became everything to me. But remember, once you become a mother at Zendik Farm, well, things change. Errol changes. But remember, once you become a mother at Zendik Farm, well, things change. Errol changes. During Thea's birth, Errol began the narrative, began to roll it out with the group because Shay ended up in the hospital with an epidural. She's more loyal to Western medicine than she is at Zendik Bop. She began to shift the narrative that put me in the doghouse. Then she starts to continue

with the narrative that Shay's not a good mom, Shay's spoiling the baby. There was a lot of that. What then happened was when Thea was seven or eight months old, the first thing that Errol did was said, Shae's not good at breastfeeding, needs to stop breastfeeding. So Thea starts on bottles of goat milk and I'm sent out to go sell the magazine in Austin, my breasts are in gorge, and why didn't I right then say well fuck you I want to keep nursing my kid now I was already like I'm loyal so it's somehow that primed me to accept it then this was the most painful thing that ever happened to me and the sort of apex of the cult damaging me and my child.

Again, in the kitchen, same kitchen where Verdant and I were cut off, I'm called in. Errol is not there, but everybody, the other top players are there, my closest friends. She said that Shay is damaging the child and Shay and Thea have to be separated. I literally stood there, pulled my hair, and screamed at the top of my fucking lungs.

It was like I was cracking, like a cracking. Shen, Thea's dad, does like a mild tackle and takes me outside. I'm on the ground collapsed. I'm fucking collapsed. And he's standing there and he says, well, are we gonna go to Chicago and ask your dad for help?

Like that was his best suggestion. Now this is a 48 year old man. He was not able to say, let's get the fuck out of here. But I mean, he'd been there 20 fucking years. You know, he was not able to say, let's get the fuck out of here. But I mean, he'd been there 20 fucking years. You know, he was not going out. He was terrible in the world. I was moved into a bunk house with 10 other girls, and Fia would sleep with her dad in the house where we used to live.

So I would come at night and bring bottles and tuck her in and tuck them in and kiss him, kiss her. She'd sleep with him. And then during the day, her sort of primary hub was care, Laura, Errol, Chen, her dad, Fawn. I'd take her for a couple hours, then I'd bring her back, and then I'd work a few hours, and then, you know, after dinner, I'd say goodnight. And I literally was a fucking basket case.

And this horrible punishment went on for close to two months. Until one day, in true, unpredictably mental, Errol fashion. I'm in New York on this selling trip that I've been made to go on. Well, Shan and Errol are taking care of my baby who's 10 months old. We're staying at someone's house in Brooklyn or something and we have someone on the team.

Errol wants to talk with you. Errol's on the phone. Shay, she says, I'm so sorry. So sorry about everything that's been happening with you and Thea. We've had it wrong. You're not the problem. Chan is the problem. Chan is the problem.

He is a terrible father. He played college football. She said something like, Thea's another football to him. Or I don't get some insane statement. When you get home, we're gonna move you back in with Thea, separation is over, you're coming back in the fulls, he's the problem. Which of course is horrific, but in some way,

music to this new mother's ears. So Thea and I are back together, living together, sleeping together in our queen-size bed. So then, Chen is being picked apart and belittled and told that he's a problem, he's a problem, he's a problem. Tensions are mounting and then a meeting is called. Again, in Arrol's kitchen, there's's gotta be eight people there. Ken's called in. They start pressuring him to, in Zendik terms, quote,

take an out. Leave for a few days. You're clearly not happy here. It's not working. You're not doing your bad for the baby. In my mind, I'm thinking, do not fucking agree to it, Ken. We have a baby here. Don't agree. They're not gonna let you back Don't don't they push them they push them they push them. Okay, I'll take an out

So he goes to Asheville. They won't fucking let him come back. He loses his mind He was like sleeping in the woods that goes on a while Then he's allowed to come back. There's sort of a sweet period. He and I were not a couple, but we were raising Thea memories of kiss good night. He would push Thea on the swing for hours. A little like OK period where we could parent, we could do this. period where we could parent, we could do this. But what about that young boy with the dance moves and the sexy ass who ran away wisely

to Europe? Hate to see him go, but you love to watch him leave. So I get word Verdun's coming back. I remember there was about 20 people who were turning our compost piles. We were all down there turning the piles. Ken was there. We were all there. And there's Verdin coming walking towards us.

And it was like no time hit a lap. Q, take my breath away, Rob. Take my breath away. Take my breath away. We took one look at each other and it was like, oh, so fucking glad to see you. You know what I mean? I mean, we both knew that we couldn't like run into each other's arms.

So, you know, we communicated that through the eyes and I'm sure, you know, Chen said something like, oh, there I'm sure you know Chad said something like oh there he is you know I mean they were always friends I mean there was nothing we were all trapped in a system together you know so we bide our time and eventually we're allowed to have a date. So we're in one of the cabins, right, and we're making love and he says to me, you are so beautiful. And it was like a healing balm came over my entire being. Somebody who really cares about me. We totally loved each other, you know, but we never really became a monogamous couple. We just wouldn't have been allowed to.

We were exploring other things and I had another guy and Virg had sex with other people. We knew what we could get away with and it was occasional. Ha ha. You know what I mean? What can I say? And more bullshit ensued. Then in the midst of a selling trip, the crew turned on him and basically kicked him out with nothing. And that was it.

Fucking cults. But at least Jeannie had Chen, the father of her child, who was still on the farm. Right? Right? Right? Right? I don't know, actually. Let's find out. Chen was always reading and he has come to a feel that the Zendik philosophy needs to evolve in a certain way. And then he starts talking to Errol, and Errol is threatened and very quickly turned on Chen. And this person who had done so much for her

and the movement was completely disposable. And that's it, he's kicked out, he's gone. My time there was at the point where the cult goes into completely decimating the cult member's spirit. It was like that time of my time there, I felt super isolated and lonely. I didn't have my family, I didn't have my Zendik family. I mean, the worst of it was I knew that

it was not a good environment for Thea. It was not a good feeling to realize that the place I wanted to live the rest of my life, I didn't wanna have a child there. It'd be time for a garden crew. I'd go out with Thea to a garden crew, then I'm like, the baby doesn't wanna be out on a garden crew.

Like, I gotta go inside with her and take care of her. I stopped trying to get it right. And then everybody got totally irritated with me as a mom. She only cares about the baby. Why is she even here? Yeah, no shit, she only cared about her baby, you fucking idiots. Whoa, whoa!

Sorry, but like, oh yeah, no fucking shit, she just gave birth. That is the one thing that she's supposed to be caring about. This is mama rage is coming out. Whoa! Sorry, but like, oh yeah, no fucking shit. She just gave birth. That is the one thing that she's supposed to be caring about. This is mama rage is coming out. Fucking morons. The punishment, which was so fucking perfect for me and Thea, was you guys have to go live alone in a cabin.

I was like, yeah! So Thea and I had our own little cabin. I had her cute little wooden cottage and I had a little stereo and her stuffed animals and we had our own little world, she and I. But yeah, they were both gone and it began to slowly dawn on me. Thea and I are basically alone. Nobody really cares about us. You know, you might not think this about me, Tyler, but one of my favorite things in life is giving gifts.

You know, you're right. I wouldn't have thought that about you. Why? Just cause. I don't want to say it, or risk not getting a gift myself. No, but it's true. I take a lot of time in picking out gifts for people.

I love finding something that I know they'll love, but they would never, ever buy for themselves. And that is why we love Quince. It's affordable luxury that makes you look like Oprah handing out cars only without Oprah's bank account. Like their soft, cozy cashmere sweaters that start at just $50, guys. Honestly, I want to gift everyone I know one, except Tyler, but I will take Tyler's and give it to myself instead. I just bought my wife these washable silk pajamas that she doesn't know how much I spent on them

or how little I spent on them. And she's like, these are the most luxurious PJs I've ever had in my life. Did you use our code? Of course I used our code. And the thing about Quince, guys, you can get all your gifts here. They have 14 karat gold jewelry, Italian leather handbags, European linen sheet sets, which I also have in love. Basically everything fancy and luxe that won't make your credit card cry, which

come on isn't that the true gift of the holidays? So to get their cost down 50 80% less than similar brands, what Quince does is it cuts out the middleman. It partners directly with factories and only works with ethical manufacturers so you save money and feel like a good person. For once in your life, Tyler. You know, I feel like a good person a couple times a year. There's that high pitch, I'm lying, boys.

So give someone luxury or heck just give it to yourself. Head to quince.com slash cult for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's quince.com. Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash cult. I'm really going to get you something for the holidays. I was just saying I was going to get you something. c-e dot com slash call. For years, Tim Ballard has been championed as a modern day superhero. The first time I saw one of the kids from the video and it like changed my life. He was the face of Operation Underground Railroad, a movement that inspired hope around the world by rescuing children from human traffickers.

However, Ballard's crusade to save innocent lives has always hidden a darker secret. Well, I think he's a pathological liar. Beneath the accolades and the applause, a dark storm has been brewing. I mean, I can't find a time that he's told the truth about anything. Shocking allegations of sexual misconduct have surfaced, casting a shadow over his once unquestioned reputation. I am host Sarah James McLaughlin and in this new season of The Opportunist, we explore the rise and the fall of Tim Ballard. Join us this October for Tim Ballard Unmasking a Hero. Subscribe to a new season of The Opportunist Now,

wherever you get your podcasts. And at this point, Jen, he was living in Asheville. He had a job. He was getting some therapy. He was in touch with his family, and he was getting his feet under him. He was a job. He was getting some therapy. He was in touch with his family and he was getting his feet under him He was feeling strong and he was like I want to move on the farm and have a relationship with the and Errol was like no you won't and

Errol had me convinced that he was bad for the baby and I wanted her approval. So I was muted and so Chen gets a lawyer and sends a letter, Errol, if you don't let me move back on the land and be a part of my daughter's life, we are going to sue you and I am going to go public about all of the illegal, cruel things that you have done separating mothers and children. So, Errol receives this letter, and probably within about an hour, Zo, Errol's henchman, comes to me and says,

we all think that you should go home, get a lawyer, get Chen out of the baby's life, and you know, then you can come back. So I called my dad and I said, Hi dad, Thea and I need to come home. And he said to me, do you want me to come get you? I said, No, I think if we can get on an airplane tomorrow. So we fly to O'Hare Airport in Chicago. He has first airplane flight. We weren't looking great. I was really underweight. I was like disembodied.

I had been so decimated, you know, and we're kind of in our funky farm clothes, you know, sort of raggedy. And there's my dad. I mean, it was amazing seeing him at O'Hare, coming down the escalator. He'd come from work. He had a fedora and a long wool coat and, you know, a suit and a tie.

You know, I'm kind of picturing Genie's father as Neil Page. You know, Neil Page, Steve Martin's character from the 1987 John Hughes classic. Classic! Planes, trains and automobiles. I mean, we all see Neil in our mind's eye, right? Fedora, long coat, tie. That must have been the Chicago men's fashion at the time because Neil Page's house at the end of the film, Factoid for ya, is in Kenilworth, Illinois, which is just minutes

from Genie's hometown of Winnicka. P.S. While we're on the subject, I love Planes, Trains and Automobiles. It's a brilliant movie that puts together an eternal optimist, L. Griffith, John Candy, who has nothing with an eternal pessimist, Neil Page, who seemingly has everything. Just like our dynamic. I'm not a pessimist, Liz. I just don't see the world with very helpful eyes and don't believe that most people are

good. And the glass is half empty, by the way. I can see it on your desk. It's half empty. Oh, too bad that's not germane to the story. None of that was germane to the story, but it's a nice aside for people who love planes, trains, and automobiles. And I'll give you my favorite quote from that movie about pessimism and optimism. When the car is burned down, remember, and they don't have a roof and it's snowing and they pull into the hotel and John Candy says, I'll tell you, with all this fresh air, we're going to sleep like babies tonight.

That's the best, perfect optimism. So Jeannie's Neil Page looking father greets her at the airport and... And so loving, so loving towards us, brought us home. My mom comes out, gets the baby out of the car seat. We begin our new life. The day after I get home, I'm in the den with my mom and the phone rings and my mom answers, oh, hi, Verdant. Verdant had heard that I was gone and immediately called. And no, I cannot talk to him.

So he was there. He would have been there. But I just, I was so screwed up. And my relationship with Theo, I wanted to get her settled. The last thing on my mind was what I was going to do with, you know, men. Besides, at this point, Jeannie had to deal with another man, Chen, who in her mind, pushed by Errol's narrative, was a terrible father. And they were dealing with a lawyer working to get Chen out of Thea's life. We actually went to North Carolina and met with a lawyer. My dad and I, it's one of these classic law offices,

North Carolina, leather chair, all books, and the lawyer turns to my dad and I and says, here's what I recommend. Call this boy's family and invite them all over and help these parents figure out how they're gonna take care of this child. So we go home, call Chen, call his family. We invite them all to come to my parents house. Thea hadn't seen her dad for six months, like is she gonna recognize him?

What's gonna happen? He walks in the door, I'm holding her. She jumps into his arms. It's so beautiful. I mean we all were just like, oh, oh, you know. And, you know, we have a family meeting. Chen said, I wanna be a part of Fia's life. I wanna support Shay, Jeannie, however I can. He was moving back to the name Brian, his birth name. And he said, I'm gonna go back to North Carolina. I'm gonna send you money.

And my dad said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You go back to North Carolina and move here as quickly as you can. We don't need you to send money. We need you to come live here. You know, and he was like, great, okay. And so that's what he did. I mean, he was probably back in,

I don't know, a week or something. And he moved to Avonston, got an apartment, and we began to raise the kids together. Total props to daddy Neil Page here. I mean, this guy sounds like a solid father and a good human being. Because he's from Chicago, obviously. And with a role model like that,

Jeannie was searching for her own mate. I had, like, I had to date a couple people and that was not happening. You know, my parents had pointed out the potential husbands at the country club. I was like, oh god no, I cannot marry a golfer. It's not gonna go well for me. And I wake up in the night and I'm like, wait a minute, Virgant! Wait, I love him! So I go into my sister's room, I'm like, Halle, I really miss Vernon. I still love him. I want to see him.

And Halle's like, yeah, you definitely have unfinished business with him. And then that morning, Chen calls to talk to Thea and say hi. And he's like, I heard this guy on the radio and he was so funny and charismatic. He reminded me a lot of Vernon. Don't you want to see him? And I'm like, yeah, actually, I was just thinking I'd like to get back in touch with him. So Jen says, I'll get his phone number for you. So he called me the day after I left the farm. I called him back a year later. I call, I leave a message, but he calls me back and you

know he says to me, I've dated some people, you're always on my mind. I want to know is there something between us or not, but I want to come visit you. And he comes to visit. It was just, and he comes to visit. It was just, it was amazing to see him. So I was 36 and he was 26. I picked him up at the airport and, I mean, he just looked so handsome. So wonderful to see him. And it was just, it was emotional being together from deep inside of me, welled up immense love, but also an immense apology. To be with the true love of my life and have a child with Chan and I mean it was just, he said, well it happened. Marfene's here, she's wonderful, she's amazing, and now we're here, and so let's not focus on the past, let's move forward, make our life together. We were off to the next stage of our life.

We got married March 10th, 2007. So in 2008, we had our son, Penn and Verdant, and I really raised, you know, both the kids together. We all decided together that Ken would just start spending a ton of time at our house. So he was usually at our house three, four nights a week for dinner, and we just all got along. So it was really helpful that Ken was part of our life. And as long as I'd known him, he had bouts, episodes of really struggling with depression. And he got really in a dark

period when Theo was about 13. He and I went to therapy together. And I remember just absolutely I went to therapy together and I remember just absolutely begging him and the therapist as well, please don't take your life. It will be devastating to us. And he's okay, you know, I won't. And he came out of that episode into a lighter period. And then COVID hits and he was very isolated. And when he was 20, so almost three years ago, he took his life. And he was incredibly painful.

And he was 67 years old. Shortly after he died, I was really vacillating between anger, feeling immensely angry at him and then grateful that he hung in for 20 years of Thea's life because I think he really struggled a lot and he lives on. So many people loved him and so many of his best qualities are embodied in Theo. If you or someone you know is struggling with thoughts of self-harm or suicide, please know that help is available.

You can reach out to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988. They're there to listen, support, and guide you 24-7. So Jeannie has been away from Zendik Farm for decades, but the place wasn't as easy to get out of her psyche. I mean, she did spend 17 years there after all. But slowly, in looking back, she started to have some realizations. So it was starting to dawn on me that it was a terrible place that didn't have my best interest in mind. But the word cult was always floating around.

Every time we would sell the magazine, oh, you guys are a cult, cult investigator came, we're not a cult. But one of the women, you interviewed Helen. Helen Zoomin, who's the author of Mating in Captivity, another book about Zendik Farm. Yes, this was a great episode by a wonderful storyteller. And might I add ace speller Helen Zoomin. If you love Zendik stories as much as we do, listen to the episode and you know

what? Read the book. Like Jeannie's daughter Thea did. When Thea was reading Helen's book, her response was, Mom, that's really fucked up. You live in a cult. You know that? That was a terrible place. You know, your question, the name of this podcast, was I in a cult? I was definitely in a cult.

So realizing that she was in a cult did put some clarity in her mind and she was able to close the door on Zendik's effects. But she did take the skills acquired there when she was doing free labor and made some lemonade. You know what I mean? She took her lemons. Yeah, I got the reference. Got it. So take that rutabaga, wolf and arrow, and shove it up your not at all calipygus asses. Those two did not have calipygus asses. I bet they did, though. I bet they did. Kill them!

I will not give them that. I'm going with calipygus. For sure they did. Wolf and arrow had nice behinds. I will not give them that satisfaction. behinds. I will not give them that satisfaction. The women at Zendikarm that taught me to grow food also really loved planting flowers and planting the vegetables in such a way that it was very beautiful. I wasn't just taught to farm, I was taught to farm beautifully. So I am the founder of the Organic Gardener. The Organic Gardener is a business that helps people grow gardens that are organic, productive,

and beautiful. 2025 will be our 20th season, and we operate somewhere between 150 and 200 gardens. And Jeannie also took some of the stories she had from the farm and combined them with her love of gardening to write her own book. Published in 2013, it's called From the Ground Up, a food growers education in life, love, and the movement that's changing the nation. In really simple language, how to grow your own food, why the Seed to Table movement is important, and all the wonderful possibilities

for good things to happen in our world and in our society when our communities grow our own food. Talk about turning shit into compost, into beautiful gardens. Jeannie took her life in a cult and turned it into a career, a beautiful marriage, and two wonderful children. Our son, he's 16, and goes to an amazing performing arts high school in Southern

California. He is 23 now. She lives in the Bay Area with her boyfriend and is doing really well. This beautiful young woman with many good qualities. Verdage and I in our marriage are both very engaged in each of us doing our own inner work on our own psyches and family traumas and wounds and there's a lot of shining that flashlight, picking up the carpet, what's happened in my life? So yeah, I've talked about it plenty, but it comes in like layers of an onion. And how does one hold the good, the bad, and the ugly? And how do I hold my own participation, silent witnessing 17 years, allowing my child to be hurt, and you know, the ability to ponder

it all and who I am and why I've done things in my past and how that informs who I am now. I've had a cool life. I've been adventurous. I've tried to change the world. I'm an idealist. I've lived on this incredible farm commune where I learned to grow food and I had so many friends there that I loved. And yeah, I have many blessings. I love my marriage with Merdyn. Our children are well. my parents are well. So there's a lot that's fulfilling going on.

My heart is happy. I'll tell you, after hearing that, my heart is happy as well. This time of year, it's always nice to look around and see that despite so much crisis and drama in our world, there are very nice people, lovely moments, and beautiful stories. And like Dale Griffith says, just go with the flow. Like a twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream. Ha ha ha ha.

["The Greatest Showman"] Thank you all for listening and thank you Jeannie for dealing with six different days of interviews. I've met you only a few times, but I feel a very strong connection to you and your story. And if I ever, ever, ever move back to Chicago, we will be friends in real life. And because this is a Chicago-themed episode, I wanted to give a shout out very quickly to Sadie Rose Glaspy, Sadie's friends with one of my lifelong friends who I spend every Christmas Eve with. And my friend Margie told me Sadie is a huge fan of the show, so thank you, Sadie, for

listening. Keep spreading the good word, my friend. You know what? And while we're doing shout outs, there's a podcast I love called The Midnight Library of Baseball. I'm a huge fan of history and especially the history and quirkiness of the national pastime. And this podcast just tickles me perfectly. Plus the season they tell the story of the making of Field of Dreams. It's magical. And I happen to make an appearance on one of the episodes, so give it a listen. Because if you build, Tyler, he will come.

Oh, that's terrible. Well, guys, we'll have both Helen and Jeannie's book in our show notes for you to order. So get them, obviously. It'll help them, it'll help you, and it'll frankly help us. So link in the show notes. Yeah, and we will be back next week with our final episode of the season and of the year. And it's a crazy one, guys. Santa was his cult leader. Was Anacultas written, produced, and hosted by me, Liz, Mucking the Goat Barn, Aya Koussi.

And me, Tyler, sneaking into Lollapalooza Meesam. Sound design and edit by Rob, puts the zen in zendik, para. And assistant editor Greta, sure is better, Stromquist. Social media maven Shanna, ain't need no country club husband, Peyton. And our executive producer is Steven, well, just Steven, Labrum. We love you all, thank you for supporting our show. And we'll, just Stephen Labrum. We love you all.

Thank you for supporting our show. And we'll see you all next week. Yes, we will. Don't spare my life Crucify