Watch What Crappens - #2460 Summer House S08E17 Part 1: One Day You’re Linds, The Next Day You’re Out

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Summer House (S08E17) concludes its season with a reunion that leaves many questions unanswered: why did Kyle get such a pass by Andy? Why was the whole cast against Lindsay? And what would Jesse Solomon do?Watch this recap as a video and get our bonus episodes at Patreon.com/watchwhatcrappensSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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["Once Upon a Beat"] So much that happens. Guess what happens. Guess what happens. Guess what happens. There's so much that happens. Hello and welcome to Watch Your Crap In. A podcast about all that crap on Bravo that we just love to talk about. I'm Ben Mandelker and joining me as usual today is Sir Ronnie Karam. Hi Ronnie. How are you doing? Hi.

Are you ready for the conclusion of the Summer House reunion? I thought it was going to be a three parter for sure. So I was surprised. I was too. It was over. I felt like I won something at the end. And it's not that I want Summer House to be over. I love Summer House, but you know, it's just,

I was taking notes on it and it just felt like, oh my God, school's out. So it's like they tell you school's out a week early, you know, it was very exciting. Um, I guess we should have known since the first episode was supersized a lot of times at the first episode of supersize, it usually means, I think that's only gonna be a two parter, but for some reason I just didn't, I didn't allow myself the dream of it being only a two parter.

And so when it was, I was like, wow. Although I will say, uh, that I felt like Kyle got off super easy on this. He sure did. They just like another chance to all shit on Lindsay, which I get it. Lindsay's crazy. I get it. I'm not saying she's not, but really you guys are just going to all let all the guys get away with everything except for Lindsay and just jump on everything is Lindsay's fault. Every single thing that's ever happened is fucking Lindsay's fault. I thought it was wild, you know?

And, you know, I mean, I have many times to have to repeat myself, not to you, but to like the cosmos, which is that like what Lindsay said, cocaine Carl was like horrific. And when Sierra says later on that that's like a relationship ending thing to say, I completely agree. But that being said, Carl is, does not get off scot-free. says later on that that's like a relationship ending thing to say I completely agree but that

being said Carl is does not get off scott-free they really like and even Andy they were all coming for Lindsay in a way where I was like no no no there were two people at fault here okay we saw what Lindsay you know where she was really at fault but Carl was very much at fault for so much of what happened and Lindsay was fully fully justified in being totally exasperated with this guy. And for them to be like, oh, what's wrong with that? Like, oh, Carl's always falling on a sword. He's always falling on a sword. Is he? He is not. No, he's not. He's so manipulative. And I love that she can call it out, but they've got her to the point now where they just are openly laughing at her, especially the girls.

Especially Paige and Ciara sitting over there openly like pointing and laughing. You know what, Paige, you're constantly fucking telling Craig that his ideas are stupid, first of all. Why does Paige get off? Like she's never told Craig his ideas are stupid. We love it when Paige does it. We think it's hilarious when Paige does it, but Lindsay doesn't have that charm. And so Paige then, when it's not her turn to openly humiliate her boyfriend, it's like hilarious that someone would even think that that's okay. And you know, she's such an asshole.

She really is such an asshole half the time. And I've really liked her most of this season, but she really opens that asshole flower when she comes to the reunions. I don't like it. And then Sierra there is like a whole victim this whole time. Like she's so crying and she's so hurt by like it. And then Sierra there is like a whole victim this whole time, like she's so crying and she's so hurt by this guy.

And then she's openly mocking somebody else. And while I'm at it, just get ready to hate my ass anyway, everybody out there, because I know I'm gonna take a lot of shit for this. Lindsay wasn't saying cocaine Carl, like it was hilarious. Like, oh, here comes cocaine Carl. Does that make it right for her to bring it up on camera? No, absolutely not.

But when we get to the part where Carl's like, oh yeah, bringing stuff up like that after someone's worked so hard, that could jeopardize their sobriety. No, you are in charge of your own sobriety. And I can't believe I'm even hearing talk like that from a sober person. Being sober is so hard.

You're not allowed to let other people affect your sobriety like that and other people's words affect it. And I'm sorry I'm already on a soapbox, but that really, this whole thing about turning your addiction into suddenly nobody else gets to say anything ever or have any, it's a point now where I'm going crazy. We don't get to do that as addicts. We just don't get to do it. Then I don't know when the rules changed, but sorry. And yes, Lindsay was still wrong for saying cocaine Carl, but they're just taking it and they're making it like,

you said cocaine Carl. No, she said you reminded me like you were treating me like you were raging at me like you used to when you were on cocaine. Sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, Coc cocaine Ronnie has spoken. Pretty much. That's how I feel right now. I don't even know why I'm not angry right now, but I love them for the rest of the recap. But you know, just a general thing, like I don't understand how this all turned around into like sitting on one person. I think that one thing that

you said, which we have, by the way, said several times over the season, is that like, I think that Lindsay's allowed to have some PTSD from what Carl went, you know, from when Carl was not sober. I think that's totally allowed. And, um, and, and that I agree it's, it's cutting for her to say it. I don't think, I don't think she should have said that. I think it was really mean of her to say, I agree. But I also think, but I. But I also, I can also imagine a world where she has been brought to that place. And I just think it's not as cut and dry as it appears on TV.

And I think that there's- I think it was, yeah, I agree with you. And I think it was just completely gross. I think it's actually a pretty nuanced situation. And I think that everyone was taking, it seems to be that everyone was taking a very like, you know, one dimensional view of it. Yes, very well said. And I just look, I just wanna reiterate,

what she did was gross, and especially harping on it and keeping going and going that night, how she did. And then the next morning, it's not cool, it was not a good look, I do not approve of that. What I'm saying right now is that this whole thing of the whole cast acting like she was bullying Carl, like walking around calling him cocaine Carl everywhere, making it like this big cartoon character,

here comes cocaine Carl. That's not what happened. She was saying, are you using because you are being so mean to me and the last time you were this mean to me was when you were using, which is different. So it's still not great, but it's just the way that they're twisting everything

to use it as a weapon. These people who aren't even involved in it. And I just think it's gross, it's unfair. I don't like it. Yeah, well, I think one of the reasons why Andy seemed to be particularly harsh to Lindsay is because I think what comes out over the hour is that he was pretty pissed off

by the narrative that she spun, which is that Carl called up the producers and the producers came and like did Carl's bidding. And Andy really hates that. He hates when production is made to look like a puppet of the stars. And we saw he like went out of his way to reiterate, no, production makes its own choices and will follow its own story, you know? And I think he was really pissed at Lindsay for spinning a narrative. I think that that was my takeaway from it. I got that too.

He was like clearly pissed, but at the same time, he was so full of shit because Carl said that he called the producers. So the only thing that was in question was, did Carl call the producers to break up with Lindsay? No, Carl was saying that he would call the producers just to see what would happen and to have a conversation, which is bullshit,

because they had already finished filming. So we, anyone with a brain, and sorry, if you don't disagree with me, I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just saying you're brandless. That was not a good way to phrase it. But. Anyone who's a good, decent person.

In my opinion, yeah. Any decent person would see that that's what he's doing. You call the cameras go down, you call them to come film you. You have a scene with your friend, like, should I break up with her? Should I not break up with her? And then the big thing to end the season is you not breaking up with her saying, Oh, you know what we should do? Work it out.

You've already said that a million times you were calling to have a definitive conversation. Give me a fucking break, you wuss. And the fact that he still can't even admit to anything and makes it like, I never even broke up with her. Lindsay's spinning this narrative that I broke up with her and I never even broke up with her. You were such an absolute wuss.

And then crawling all over the place like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry everybody, it's my fault too. I mean, I know it's my fault too, right everybody, right? And acting like an abused, like an abuse victim basically to make her look like he's so terrified. So everybody's like, poor Carl. Carl, this isn't all your fault. Carl, why are you falling on the sword?

I mean, the whole thing was just such bullshit. And to have the whole cast jumping on Carl's side when you know Carl's a fucking liar and you know Carl treats people like shit, the fact that every single person did it was just gross. Boo. Well, let's get into it. Let's get into the fine details.

We've got nothing else to say except that you can watch us on crap is on demand and you can see my sweater, which for some reason is like radioactive white today. Did you see this right now? Do you see my sweater? I like, I'm like wearing, I'm like my, I like stuck my head to a giant marshmallow at this point. You look like one of Carl's teeth actually. I do.

There's actually stripes. The stripes are off camera so they don't, they break up the whiteness. But yeah, I'm dressed up like Carl's tooth. I'm like in the series finale of Family Ties when like, what is it like Michael J Fox, like appears to Meredith Baxter-Burney as like a giant tooth.

It's like, I'm all grown up, mom. Remember? Is that just me? I don't. Okay. Or imagine if that just never happened. I just carried that memory for some reason. It's a disturbing thing.

So I feel like I would have remembered it. He dressed like a giant tooth. Well, no, she, no, cause she was like at some sort of like recital. I think it was like the kid, the little kid that comes later in the series. And he's like at school and he's like dressed like a little tooth. It's like the baby tooth has fallen out of the mouth.

And then Meredith backs to Bernie then sees like a vision of like Alex Piquin as a big tooth. It's like, I'm all grown up. Wow. This happened. Cause I can also imagine Carl doing that. Hey, I'm big. I'm all grown up. Did this happen? Cause I can also imagine Carl doing that. Hey, I'm biggie. I'm all grown up now. I love how this episode has begun with eight minutes of you furious

at me being like, guys, remember that episode of Family Ties? Well, good. I think the audience needed it. I don't know why I came in that angry. I was actually, I'm actually- I know why. because I vented to you about something I was annoyed about beforehand. And so I probably revved you up and you're like, ah! I don't know, I think I just watched Summer House and then I was like, oh, I'm not mad. And then I came back here and I was like,

suddenly, suddenly furious. But you know, there you go. So for the 20 people still listening after all of that, let's get into it, shall we? Yeah. So we are actually at a completely different like aspect of Summer House. We are still with Paige telling off West

because West is a piece of shit now and no one likes him anymore. So this is when she's saying, you know, like we don't live our real lives because there's a camera. We live our real lives because we just dress really well. And so, and then zero. Cameras live for me. I don't live for cameras.

And cameras run from Danielle. Let's be honest. Listen, no one is as broken as a camera is that's focused on Danielle. Do you know that the camera industry almost actually closed when Danielle came into the picture? Pun intended. So Andy's like,

well Paige, you said that you would literally kill West if he hurt Sierra. What do you think about that? And she's like, well, not literally because jail scares me. Jail is terrifying. Have you seen what they feed you in jail? Have you seen what people in jail wear?

I would never. It's literally like a big brick building full of Lindsay's. Like it's horrifying. No one is allowed to like or subscribe in jail. So I will never be going to jail. She goes, yeah, so not literally Andy, you idiot. Like why would I literally kill him? But she's my friend and when she's done with you, I don't know you asked.

And so, uh, then Andy, you know, Wes is a whole, uh, Hey West, what is your biggest regret? Was it, um, screwing the pooch with a potential super model? He's like, well, um, Sierra, Sierra, like Sierra might regret like our however month journey but like, I don't. Okay, well, do you regret this crazy cream suit you're wearing that doesn't fit? Because we have a lot of regrets about that. Do you regret dressing like a dinner theater version of Guys and Dolls if it took place in a insane asylum

and everything was cream colored. West just continuing with this stream of pure charisma is like, I, well, like my feelings were genuine. Hold on, let me pout, pouty face. But I just expressed myself too late. And then it was too late to figure stuff out, but like, obviously it's painful for you, but like it's painful for me, but I know it's my fault.

But like, what are you even saying, dude? You don't make any sense. I love hearing that, but my feelings were genuine. I just expressed myself too late. What does that mean? Your feelings were genuine, but you expressed them too late, that you broke up with her too late, that you should have broken up with her earlier,

or that you realized how you felt for her too late. Are you insinuating that you still have some kind of feeling there? Like, what is he even saying? So wish he was. You're a journalist, you know how to use your words, okay? You literally, these are simple things,

and you work for something called Complex, so you can handle it. So Andy's like, he's a sports journalist though. I mean, no offense, but isn't that like a lot different? I just feel like I've seen a lot of sports journalism and to a lay person, this is what it sounds like. LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, it's LeBron. That's all I hear.

Sports journalism is actually the most hilarious version of journalism because they are so ridiculous. You know, for all this stuff, men are not supposed to show emotions. Jesse Solomon, you have never seen more emotional men than in sports journalism. Okay, first of all, every documentary they show is to make men cry. It's like, and then as he was doing the slam dunk, he thought about his grandmother who died 40 years ago. And then like, it's always that. And every article is like an outraged guy being like, and the fact that they got rid of Jeff Van Gundy, you're like, okay, just relax, sir.

And then they make fun of us. Like they make fun of these shows. Like, oh, these shows where women just get into arguments. I'm like, have you seen your writing, sir? Have you seen it? They I mean, I'm telling you, like the articles, the way they're written are so happy. There's always something like, and it was looking like it's gonna be a great season until it wasn't. And everything is like that everything is like, and they thought they were making a great idea. Trading, you know, Patrick Mahomes to Kansas City. Well, look how that turned

out. I was like, how is this good writing? You're like, you're, you're sassing off to like someone in a front office someplace. Well, then I have to say them. I need more of that in West because this, whatever he's doing here is just, he's, he's speaking in ellipses. It's just like, I dot dot, I don't love, I, well, I thought dot dot dot dot. Like, bro, could you show up to fucking work, right? So Andy's like, Sierra, do you have a response? And she goes, it's fine. It's fine. And he goes, it doesn't seem fine. Everybody, Sierra's crying again. Anyone else think it's fine? Anyone? I just want to point out this is one of the greatest love stories ever told. We got five minutes of ellipses and

then a great response from Sierra. It's fine. All right. Anybody going to write that down? Jane Campion, Jane Campion, do you want to take that one on? I just have like images of like naked Harvey Kitek, Kitek, Kitek. How do you say his name? Kitell? I'm like Kitell, Kitell, Kitell. Ration of Harvey Kitell joins the cast of Summer House. That'd be so awkward.

No, a fuck boy. Like no matter who you get, they're just a fuck. You know, it's like Harvey Kitell's like, well, you know, I'm famous now so I can commit. You know? All right, guys. For this weekend's party, the theme is a poker table in the middle of the backyard and we're all smoking at it. Oh, okay.

Thanks, Harvey. So, so this is the reunion where no one wants to cry. It's hilarious. You know, Jesse doesn't want to cry. Sierra doesn't want to cry. Everything is like I told myself I wouldn't cry. So Kyle's like, well, I still ship them if I, you know, if they't want to cry. Sierra doesn't want to cry. And everything is like, I told myself I wouldn't cry. So Kyle's like, well, I still ship them if I, you know, if they want to get back together, know what I'm saying? And Andy's like, okay, well, would you give him another shot?

Sierra? She goes, I mean, we'd have to be like a world of change and I just don't know if people can change. So I've been Jesse last thing. It's like, so you're telling me there's a chance then? Yeah. And this is where you completely fucking lost me. You're still saying that there's a chance? Are you fucking crazy? What what have I just been doing all week? I've been making little dolls to stick pins of with stupid teenager hair that I've been calling West and throwing

against the wall. I threw one in the dryer okay and now And now you're telling me, oh, well, you'd have to change a lot. No, the answer is no, okay? Date someone outside of a fucking TV show. Please do yourself a favor. I really like Sierra and I don't like this self torture. When are you gonna learn? You went from Luke, you went to Austin, you went to West. They're not here, Sierra.

Meet someone in the fucking doctor's lounge, okay? I get it. Like- Ronnie, you got it totally mistaken. She meant like you have to change out of that suit. That's all. I don't know if people can change their hair so many times and for it to still be this terrible.

So no idea. I will mind it. Change the middle part. That's what I need to hear, bro. But like after all this, you're still gonna give him a chance just because you're both on TV. I can't, Sierra, I can't.

And I'm rooting for you, Sierra, but please don't do me wrong like this. Well, then she does the whole, I can't sit here and say, I don't like him. And he's like, oh, so you do have feelings for him. She goes, yeah, I mean, of course. So then she starts crying. He's like, West, what do you think about that?

He goes, I mean, same, but like, I didn't expect to your. All right, West has passed out on the sofa. Please just do me a favor and don't write your own vows. You know what I mean? Like we've been through enough. This reunion was really rough. Wow. So Kyle, so another down break milling about or whatever. And then Sierra tells Jessie, she's like,

I guess I could apologize to tell you, I should have apologized to you for telling you to shut up, but whatever. And he goes, yeah, you know, I try to defend my friend, I'm just trying to defend my friend, but your feelings are valid. And I'm real sad that you're sad, okay? Your feelings are valid toots, okay?

Jessie just knowing all the right things to say. Love your feelings, so valid, which is why they just totally stood up for the douchebag who fucked you over five minutes ago. Okay. Paige is like. Wes was like about to cry. I think he was like looking at Danielle

and just started to sob. I mean, I think it happens to so many of us. That's why you can't look at her directly in the face. Tsk. Well, I feel bad for that. She goes, for saying exactly what happened, you, I feel bad for that. And she goes, for saying exactly what happened, you do not feel bad for that. You do not, he's just scared about the public

not liking him. He doesn't give a shit about you. Do you understand that, Sierra? Get your head back in the game. Sierra! Slap, slap, slap, Sierra, focus. Shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, slap. Paige directing the scene.

She's like, you want me to go back to him? Which thankfully, Paige is there She's like, you want my go back, fam? Which thankfully, you know, thankfully Paige is there to be like, hell no. But Sierra just goes, whatever. Like, whatever, mom. I'm gonna date whoever I want to. Sierra, I swear to God, I'm getting so upset

about this show right now, okay? I just spent all week having a fucking parade for Sierra about this douchebag. And now you're just gonna go back and do the same thing how could you do this to me first rule of bravo don't have high hopes it's time for a commercial it's time for a crappens commercial Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef.

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You can binge all episodes of Blame It On The Fame early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So Jesse, the camera guy is like, all right, here we go, Andy. And of course, Jesse's like, here we go. Andy. Um, really, I just can't co-sign Jesse's crooning. I can't either. Please be quiet. The only reason people aren't asking you to be quiet is because you're somewhat hot.

Exactly. No, I think he's actually, I think he's like not someone. I think he's like full on a hundred percent hot. And that's why he is. He's summer. I think he's like, if you saw him in a party, you'd be like, oh my God, he's hot. Yeah, he's hot. No, let's say he is hot. He is hot. I just don't want to give him that much credit because he's singing too much. I think the singing is taking away the hotness,

I have to say. Yeah, I think that maybe it's like when you're there in person and he's so tall that when the notes finally like to send down to your ears, they sound good. But when we hear it directly into the mic, we can hear how they're not like amazing notes. They're decent, but not amazing. Yeah, yeah, they're hot people notes.

You know what I mean? Hot people notes have tall privilege. Tall notes. And he's like, we're hot people notes. You know what I mean? I just feel like other people- The notes have to be tall privilege. Yeah. Tall notes. So Andy's like, we're back. Well, for the past eight years, we've watched Kyle and Amanda go from a late night booty call fuck boy fuck wit to still a late night booty call fuck all fuck wit,

but Amanda's kind of sick of him, but never ever gonna leave him. So let's see how that's going. And it's eight minutes of Oh, I know that when you dream, you know, I've always been telling me that I'm not not mad to be like, this these two, and then fucking Kyle, they cut out all of Kyle's meanest stuff and make Kyle look like just a fun little wacky sitcom husband.

Kyle's a drunk who screams and yells at his wife and calls her a bitch like what every year, at least once a year on TV. And we're not going to even address that ever. I literally thought that this was going to be a three-part reunion and the middle episode was going to be like 45 minutes of the Kyle and Amanda situation because it was so toxic this season. It was so dysfunctional. He was so kind of sad to her and she's no angel either. She really is a nag. I'm sorry. She's a nag, but he like a nag with reason. She has earned her nagging. It's definitely justified whatever nagging

Like she has earned her nagging. It's definitely justified whatever nagging happened. And he is, and he's like, he's like drunk, you know, like the whole time. And he's like flagrantly not doing the things to make her happy. She decides she finally wants to do something for herself and his, his, his fragile, his male fragility can't deal with it.

He has a meltdown. He throws things across the yard. I was like, this is 45 minutes worth. This is, we're going gonna dive right into it. And the fact that this was actually only just really a segment and really the gist of the segment was like, oh, Amanda was depressed. And that was like, it's almost suggesting like,

oh, maybe if she wasn't depressed, this wouldn't have been this way. It's all Amanda's fault. It's all the woman's fault. I didn't like that at all. Every fucking time, it's all the woman's fault. And it's Amanda doing it too. She's like, but it was me, I was depressed Andy. So he had a right to be upset.

No, he didn't. He didn't have a right to be treating you like that. Like, I'm sorry, he didn't. It's bullshit and I'm so sick of it. And I'm so sick of her playing into it. It's gross. And I don't like that nobody's even gonna ask. I mean, Kyle and Amanda get to,

I think here's what really pisses me off. Kyle and Amanda sit up here like the prom queen and king. They know better than everybody else about relationships. They're like the veteran relationship. They're gonna stay together forever, everybody. So they're like the model couple. They clearly are like, we've had a shit season. People are always telling us to break up.

Or people have spent the entire season telling us just to break up and we're miserable human beings. So let's go to this reunion as a united front and we'll just be lovey-dovey and kiss each other after every answer and avoid all the abusive questions if they come. And that's what they do. But then when it comes to Lindsay and Carl, and they're accusing Lindsay of like, oh, well, you're trying to hide stuff from the cameras and you're trying to make everything seem like it's perfect when it was never perfect. What do you think you two are doing? Why do these get to get away with doing it, but then they villainize everybody else's relationship?

That's what drives me, hypocrisy. How unfair is it that like, you know, Lindsay and Carl in their segment, you know, they're having their back and forth and Kyle keeps chiming in on behalf of Carl really inappropriately and really rudely and going after Lindsay when Lindsay was actually pretty respectful during the Kyle and Amanda segment and could have a million times butt in

and been like, well, why did you act like that to her? In fact, no one did. I was shocked at how small considering how much of a big chunk of the season this was. Like the Colin and Amanda thing was not nothing. It was not like a little sea story. This was like a major storyline. It like almost rivaled Carl and Lindsay for the season. And the fact that it was sort of shoehorned into this tiny little segment in episode two, I felt like it was actually a little bit of a failure

on the production's part and how they presented this reunion. There was a huge failure and it's a weird way to protect their stars. And I don't know, just the whole thing rub how they presented this reunion. There was a huge failure and it's a weird way to protect their stars. And I don't know, just the whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. I found it really gross.

So let's go into some of this plasticky bullshit. So, Samantha said that you agreed to live in the burbs, Kyle. So that's the question. And so Kyle's like, well, to clarify, I don't want to live in the burbs. I mean, I grew up in the burbs, right? And so what I said was when I have kids, they're't want to live in the burbs. I mean, I grew up in the burbs, all right? And so what I said was when I have kids, they're old enough to play in the street,

and that's when I'm gonna move to the burbs. So, you know, maybe I got misconstrued. Okay, so that's the end of that, huh? So no follow-up questions. No follow-up question of like, so what's the plan now? Are you gonna, you can see that this would make her happy. She said she wants a yard. Would you like, are you willing to make concessions to make your

wife happy? Don't you feel like she's made a lot of concessions for you and you're not doing anything? No, no, none of those questions whatsoever. We just moved right on ahead. Yeah. So Matt is like, well, I don't think I've ever heard when they're old enough to play in the street. And then pages laughing. She's like, yeah, like when it goes to school, I guess, not when it's a baby, because that would be bad babies playing in the street. I mean, listen, unless they were baby Danielle's, I say, here's your preschool. It's a freeway. Have fun. Have fun playing in that.

Can we put Danielle's dress in the street so he can't run over it actually improve it. So Andy's like, well, Amanda, you've stayed with Kyle through his cheating, his lying and his mullet. How do you reconcile with that with the things he said to you about feeling lonely in your marriage and being weary of starting a family? So she's like, well, I love him, unfortunately, so very much. And like this guy's my best friend. And in his defense, like why in his defense? He, you know, through the past year, I was on the road to becoming very depressed

and I was checked out and I wasn't talking to my friends. I was quite, but why is that in his defense? Isn't that actually to his detriment that like, considering that you have been in the funk for like two years, that he was like not interested in making any sacrifices that might bring some happiness into your life? Yeah, isn't it worse that you were depressed

and he was walking around the house, throwing things wasted and calling you a bitch on national TV? Doesn't that actually make it worse? It doesn't excuse it. She's like, but then being excused, I was depressed. And then Andy's like, but why are you depressed? And she's like, oh, it just runs in my family.

Now look, that is kind of how depression works sometimes. It just comes over and you can't help it, you know, which is why there's medication and stuff like that. But a lot of time, depression actually is based on actual things that are happening. So I don't like the whole like, well, let's see, I'm not doing anything that I like to do. Kyle is shooting down anything that I would wanna do,

which by the way, is another thing that they're accusing Lindsay of when Kyle literally is doing it the whole season. Like I just can't. Yeah, that's a great point. And we're just gonna ignore it. You know, we're just gonna ignore all that so that they can be the perfect little couple and she can say, well, he's just wacky, but we're in love. He's my best friend.

And at the end of the day, it's my fault for being depressed. Women, am I right? You're so right. They really grilled Lindsay for shooting down Carl's ideas, which by the way, his ideas are ridiculous. Stupid. It's a non alcoholic, uh, cafe. Uh, it's called a coffee shop. It's called a fucking coffee shop with the TV, Carl. You did not reinvent the wheel here, but, um, yeah, you're right.

They, they totally grilled Lindsay for shooting down everything that Carl has suggested when it, what we literally saw, like when Amanda even, even like showed Yeah, you're right. They totally grilled Lindsay for shooting down everything that Carl has suggested. When what we literally saw, like when Amanda even showed a hint of wanting to come up with her own entrepreneurial idea, Kyle literally had a hissy fit of meltdown. He threw a can across the yard and was only able to apologize for his behavior when,

like he was essentially iced out. Yeah. So she is talking about how antidepressants are amazing. to apologize for his behavior when he was essentially iced out. Yeah, so she is talking about how antidepressants are amazing and she goes, "'Tracks are great, I mean medication drugs, am I right?' "'Ha ha!' And then Kyle's like, "'Yeah, yeah, we talked about loneliness

and we talked about our anxiety. I mean, I know about that stuff, because when we got married, she went into a funk. Hi, just as someone who's watched your show, before you got married, she was a funk too. Yeah. And during your marriage, she's been a funk. Kyle, it's you.

I'm sorry, someone has to point it out. You're the funk. Funk, funky funk. Yeah, you're a funky DJ. I mean, I would, I think I would probably also be in the funk. So yeah, basically like she hit like a really, she had never really gotten out of her post wedding blues and then after BravoCon, she hit her ultimate low.

Which- It's interesting, isn't it? Because she went from the wedding, cause that's a normal thing, right? You get so much attention, you're working on your wedding for so long, you get so much attention, it's all about you for so long, and then that's over. And it's like, well, you just go back to normal life

and there's like a depression that comes after that. And then Bravo comes, this whole thing that's also about you, and it's like celebrating you and you're a star and this and that, and then that happens and then you're depressed. Like she's gonna constantly need some kind of a tent pole event to make her feel celebrated. Because she ain't gonna get it from Kyle.

Or maybe it's just about, maybe it's about like two high profile events where she has to stand and smile and play, like play nicey nice with Kyle and just appear like, we're like the happiest couple in front of the masses. And then the, maybe it's like the insincerity of that, or maybe the frustration or whatever issues that she has that she feels unresolved,

afterwards she has to sit with that and she has to deal with probably what she feels versus how she acted in terms of like having to pretend. And maybe that's tough for her. Yeah, yeah, Jesus, yeah. So then Andy's like, well, Sierra, tied for pod. Maybe she's just deeply miserable. What's said- Maybe she's just deeply miserable. What's that?

Maybe she's just deeply miserable. No, I liked that. I was, I was following all that. I hadn't thought of that aspect of it. I liked that. So Andy's like, Sierra, you know, rolling from pole, he says, how come you said you don't know who Amanda is outside of Kyle? That wasn't very nice. Okay. And Sierra's like, well, I just wanted her to think about what she wants, not what Kyle wants,

cause I don't even care about Kyle. And he's like, uh, uh, and Andy's like, Kyle, why did you react so poorly to that? He's like, uh, if I could take it back, I would, but because she has so many emotional issues

and said she's wanted to do something else on top of that. I'm like, I mean, how could you even have an ambition? How could you even have a, decide you want to have a plan to get out of your funk when you're in a funk? Like that's just like wild to me. God, this is, and he's so disgusting and nobody calls him out. He's like, yeah, you know, I wouldn't have been mean, but you know, like she, you heard her, she's got emotional issues and now she wants a job.

Now she wants to do something for herself. I mean, just like a lot. I was like, Oh, perfectly normal. What a romantic answer, Kyle. And then, so Andy's like, well, what do you feel about Kyle saying he wants to be a DJ? And, and Sierra's like, and now he is a DJ. So it turns out Kyle has become a DJ. He takes classes in Jersey. Yeah. Every Thursday in Jersey, Yeah, every Thursday in Jersey, which by the way, Amanda, why don't you use that?

Say we can get a house in Jersey and you'll be close to your DJ lessons. So, Andy- She just needs to say, Jersey is the place where middle-aged men become DJs. Boom, you already got them there. It's the land for your midlife crisis. Okay, you can go there, take your DJ lessons, get an ear pierced, get a Corvette, you know, you'll be great. Also get drunk with strangers

in Jersey. Okay. Spinning records. It's going to be great. Yeah. Why don't you visit little big town or whatever the name of the, whatever the Manzos bar and grill was in, uh, and uh, what's it called it? Uh, Hoboken, which by the way, that's another thing, Carl, the Manzos, there are those, those boys, Albion, Christopher, they were at the peak of their popularity and they were in like a place like this was their domain and they opened up a full fledged sports bar right there in Hoboken, the peak of their popularity and they still couldn't make it work. So why do you think you sort of in your post popularity opening up a not great concept? Why do you think that's

going to work? It's just not going to work. You know, and Carl's thing, like, I don't even want to shit on people's dreams. Why do you think you could do it? know. You're putting the Manzos on a pedestal for somebody else. If Lord Manzo couldn't launch Cafés, why did you think that you could launch your non-Alec Sports Bar? Look, here's the thing. I don't want to shit. I mean, it is fun to make fun of Carl being a DJ,

but you go do you, boo. And I don't want to shit on people's dreams. If Carl's dream is to do this, then that's cool. If he's willing to put in the hard work and stuff, the problem is it's not about shitting on his dreams. It's that he never had one. It's the fact that he's just throwing shit at the wall and then wondering why Lindsay is not super excited about it is the thing. It's not like he's had this idea for a year and he really wanted to do it. She said, have you thought about your career at all? Because you're supposed to be thinking about your career and you've called this meeting.

So what do you want to talk about? And he goes, yeah, I've been thinking about my career. I mean, how about this? Oh, being an actor. No, a sports bar with no alcohol. I don't want to spend all our money on that. Oh, how dare you? Exactly.

It's not a dream, Carl. It's a stupid random idea you came up with 30 seconds ago. I totally agree in the sense that like, um, I think everyone should follow their dreams or passions. Like if they have an idea that they want to follow, do like totally do it, but that's different than like forging a career for yourself. Like, if you just are like, Hey, I want to do this thing. And it's like a really, honestly, it's just not a realistic at this moment, a realistic view for

something. I'm going to walk that back. It's not that's realistic. It's just a known gamble to open up a restaurant anyway. And then to do a sort of a new concept with that sort of restaurant is even more of a gamble. And to those people who take those gambles and it pays off, it's wonderful. But Lindsay in that moment is like, I'm looking for more stability. I'm looking for more career stability because I want to stay home and raise this child that we might do. We talked about having, which is something that really gets lost in this reunion. Everyone's like, well, Lindsay, you're also an influencer, but she said she wants

to stay. She wants to raise this child. And he's aware of that. That's the family dynamic they want to have. And he comes out with a thing that's like a gamble. And it's like, I think that like, there's something about Bravo, maybe this is just a feature of nowadays, the 2024, that a career does not necessarily mean you have to invent something. You don't have to become an entrepreneur. You don't have to create a brand. You don't have to like create a restaurant. You don't have to have a fashion line. You can get a job at a company and work your way up. That's a career too. And it's totally viable. And it's a great way to make a living. And it's like, you don't have to like sit there and think for a million, like for months on end, like what's my great idea I'm going to bring to Shark Tank. You don't have to do that. You don't have to be Bethany Frankel. You can

just like look on monster.com speaking of Bethany. Yeah, I was going to say, is that, Bethany's dating site? Look to see if there's any job openings that look interesting to you. Because guess what? You could find something that really lights your fire just at a workplace, okay? Yeah, because Amanda is kind of the female Karl in this way

because then Andy is like, well, Karl's doing a DJ, so Amanda, that's cool. So he has a dream. So now what do you wanna do outside of Loverboy, Amanda? You've had months to think about this, go. And she's like, I would love, I don't know, like a brand. Like I would love to like have a brand that's an extension of me.

Kind of like how Kyle has Loverboy, you know, like that. It's like, well, okay, you know. Well, the thing is this, I think the unspoken thing is that everyone's thinking we're on this platform, a national platform, and we want to capitalize off of it. How can we do something that we capitalize off of it and turn it into like a multimillion dollar thing? And everyone feels that pressure to do it. And what I'm just saying is you don't have to do that.

You could just get a job. There's like really nothing wrong with getting it. And it's like, I'm not saying go work at Zara, you know, which don't have to do that. You could just get a job. There's like really nothing wrong with getting it. And it's like, I'm not saying go work at Zara, you know, which there's nothing wrong with that, but like you can just like put your car onto the on ramp and get onto a career highway there, you know? Yeah.

All right, so now it's just like, where are they now? And Amanda and Kyle just talk about how much they love each other and how perfect they are for each other. And they kiss. And Jesse's like, yeah, can I just say as a newcomer, it's crazy to see these two kids.

I mean, they are perfect for each other. And like the internet doesn't really get it, but let me just tell you, these two are really, really, I mean, perfect for each other. Okay, thanks. So then Lindsay looks all mad by the way, they cut to Lindsay and she's like, like, okay, so now we get to sit here

and watch these two fucking fake it. And let's come back to like dragging me across the coals after this guy just fucking emotionally abused this woman all year. That'll be fun. Commercials, here comes one right now. Peyton, it's happening. We're finally being recognized for being very online. Here comes one right now. lover of pop culture second. Then join me, Hunter Harris, and me, Peyton Dix, the host of Wanderys newest podcast, Lemme Say This. As beacons of truth and connoisseurs of mess, we are scouring the depths of the internet so you don't have to. We're obviously talking

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Plus and the Wondery app on Apple podcast. So then Andy is like, all right, well, this year, instead of sending it, they were singing it. And so we see yet again, another clip of Jesse singing his song. And of course, Jesse is the sort of person who sings along to his own clip package. So he's like, they're in the little box going, what would Jesse Solomon do? And they're all singing like, what would Jesse Solomon do? And they're all singing, like what would Jesse Solomon do?

And then they don't know any of the other lyrics. I just want to see their sass. Just like they did, that happened in the beginning of the reunion where Andy was like, oh, I've been singing, what would Jesse Solomon do? And Jesse goes, yeah, yeah, that was fun. That was fun.

It was a fun project. Worked with some pretty, some pretty great people on that one. That was good. You know, just excited for more projects, Andy. He really is acting like he collaborated with Daft Punk or something. So, you see it, Andy's like,

well, so, so, Method from Counterspray says, Paige, did you get Jesse to flirt with you because you like attention? And she's like, "'Page, did you get Jesse to flirt with you "'cause you like attention?" And she's like, um, I like attention, of course. Like the good guy, not like Danielle's dress kind. Like I'm on a stage, okay? But like, I don't think I was like overly flirtatious, but I was like nice and he was funny.

And he like called me out four times today because like I touched his leg, which is like ridiculous because like, why would I ever touch his leg? And then we see a clip package of her like touching his leg over and over and over again. Yeah, I've been, oh, Jesse are hilarious. Oh, Jesse. Little Paige, you say Craig wasn't worried about Jesse after he met him. Oh, that was pretty cool. She's like, okay, well, look, I mean, Danielle had a point. I mean, in interviews, I admit it, but I just met his personality is goofy and like, Craig wasn't worried, you know, point. I mean, in interviews, I admit it, but I just met his personality's goofy

and like Craig wasn't worried, you know? Cause I was like, someone touched my leg, Craig, and he's like, oh, okay, okay, Paige, cool. You know, like panda bears aren't real, so. I mean, why should I really be concerned about, like why should Craig be concerned about Jesse? He kind of looks like a cartoon cactus. All that's missing is like a little cowboy hat

and a bandana. Am I right, everyone? Just look at him. Just look, visualize it. Look at that face on a cactus. It's there. You're welcome. So Andy, do you think that Jesse, here's my question.

Do you think Jesse and Sierra are gonna start a love triangle? Wes is gonna get all jealous now. I think Jesse likes, I think Jesse likes Amanda and Sierra, but I think he's gonna date Sierra. What do you think? Well, I think that Sierra knows that Jesse is a through and through fuck boy. Like that, the thing is, Jesse has never even tried to hide it.

We've seen it all summer. He's just been a fuck boy with people that aren't on the show. So it's been kind of like not an issue for us. We just see him bringing girls in and then he's like, oh yeah, I got my Thursday girl, I got my Tuesday girl. And then on Wednesday, I go to Starbucks and I throw the girl there. We're like, oh yeah, I got my Thursday girl, I got my Tuesday girl, and then on Wednesday I go to Starbucks and I throw the girl there.

We're like, ah ha ha ha ha. But like, everyone sees it. Yeah, but what does Ciara care? She was with Austin, she still liked Austin, even after all that, and she's still probably gonna give West another chance, so. And Jesse did do the thing where he's like, oh, well look, I'm admitting I'm a fuck boy,

but guess what, if I find the right girl, that's all I'm looking for. You know, so he did that. He did add that part. Like who's going to get the golden ticket. Exactly. You know what? Who's going to be lucky enough to win my affection. I don't think Sierra is going to go for him because what I do see from Sierra is

someone who I do believe is trying to, is trying to grow. I do think that she is really trying to with, with each failure, she's trying to take lessons from that and apply it going forward. So I do think that like everything with West was such a massive improvement with, you know, like with Austin. And I think she's just taking, she's going to take from that and apply it to the next one. So I don't think she's going to go with Jesse Jessie. Go with Jessie like she's in the 1950s.

You're gonna go with Jessie? Are you guys going together? So, okay. What's next here? Cancer. Say, so brave of you to share a cancer and to share about it. I mean, we caught you on camera

and then we asked you questions about it. Why was it so important? And it's like, oh, well, it's important you on camera and then we asked you questions about it. Why was it so important? And it's like, Oh, well, it's important. He's nice. You know, he says, it's good to show that didn't affect me and, you know, move forward, et cetera. And then Andy was asking about like, you know, like, Hey, you have this incredibly scary

thing that's happening to you. It's deeply personal to you. Why didn't you share it with everyone in the household? So I wonder why. Seriously, it's so gross. What was it on camera? Why were you hiding from the cameras? You were crying, you were almost dead and you didn't put it on camera? Where the hell do you think you are? Costco sample counter? Come on! Well, as a man, you don't want to show emotion, but what you want to do is sing emotion. I am really sad this weekend.

I'm so sad. I'm sad. Jesse Solomon. All right. Well, that was a real banger. Okay. Thanks for the counter banger there. So he basically is like, yeah, I thought that men couldn't show emotion. And the man goes, Kyle does. He's literally already cried today. And then it's like five minutes ago, Kyle's like, what's the urgent thing, it was so bad. It was so bad. Yeah.

So Jess is like, yeah, it was wrong to feel that way. And it was an insecurity of mine. And like the messages from fans were like super rewarding, especially the ones that had nudes. So yeah, I'm like, I'm glad I showed emotion. And Wes is just looking at him like, God, I love you so fucking much. Do we talk about the fact, I don't think we talked about it,

that Wes was so nervous during his segment that he like lifted up his armpit during the break and was like, look at this. And he had giant sweat stains through the blazer. Did you see that? Gross. Ooh, it was intense. It was really intense.

Oh, so now let's talk about Lindsay and Carl some more. Okay. So now we get into the cocaine. Carl, don't John John. So clips of Lindsay wasted saying Carl wasn't sober that night. And then Carl is telling us, I went to the summer thinking we had stuff, but I didn't think people would find out about it

because I wanted to protect it. Okay, so Carl's not going to get in trouble for not bringing things on camera now? So Lindsay's like, well, you know, when I got to the house, I'm like on edge, I didn't know what was going to happen with the girls and like, you know, it was like, is it going to take us a minute? You know, and she talks about how like coming out of the reunion, you know, all the girls

came for her and she was in a fight with Danielle. She just didn't know where she was going to stand. And so she started to drink because she was really anxious and which by the way, it's always great to do when you're engaged to someone who's sober. And then they went to the club and then she wound up in like an Uber or a Lyft with all the guys and she just was afraid that it was going to be used against her. And so she was sort of like waiting for some sort of like awkwardness or fight with the girls and she expressed that to Carl and she just felt very, very dismissed. And she says that she wants a partner to be like, you know, it's okay. Don't worry.

The girls will be fine. Instead, he was like, just get over it. It was very dismissive. And then Kyle goes, there was no dismissiveness. It was all in your head, all in your head. What? He says, Your literal, that literal sentence was,

could not have been more dismissive. No, it was being dismissive to you. You were just like a crazy woman coming up with crazy concoctions inside your crazy womanette. Yeah, it was all in your head, Lindsay. She's like, you don't get to tell me how I feel. He's like, Oh, wait, how is that a club? You had a full blown fight about something you manifested out of spin air.

I mean, what do you have depression or something? All right. I mean, look, did she work herself into a tizzy over like some massive theoreticals? Yes, she absolutely did. She did, she did make something in her head, but she also has a partner who should who a partner who spent a huge amount of energy all season saying like, I just want softness and tenderness. I just want like someone to be like a cheerleader for me who like was not doing

it for her, which it could be, it could go the other way around, which is that she was like, I'm not going to be a cheerleader, but then she's also asking for a cheerleader. But the point is this, like, yes, this may have been all in her head, but Carl could have easily been like, Hey, don't worry about it, babe. I got you. I got your back. Kyle Soria Well, we've seen Lindsay spin out of control and start screaming at boyfriends a million times for many, many reasons. Okay. So especially when she's drinking, hold on. Pardon me. I just miss that sneeze right now.

Didn't mean to dismiss you, but I'll get over it. Get over it. Sneeze. Um, but here's what kills me. I don't doubt that Lindsay blew this out of proportion and then it became a huge fight or whatever. I didn't see it. It wasn't on TV.

I'm just going to go ahead and give this one to Kyle because I know that Lindsay can act psychotic, okay? So I'm gonna go ahead and give that to Kyle because I haven't given Kyle many lately. But here's where this whole thing falls apart for me. Kyle acting like somebody else is spinning out of control and being unreasonable when he just got to skip over an entire section of him calling his wife a bitch and throwing shit.

There you go. Is a little bit hypocritical. And the fact that nobody calls him out like, oh really, Kyle? You think it's bad to start yelling at your partner over shit that you're just making up in your head? Really? Roll the clip, Andy.

I kind of wish Gabby were a better reality star, because really, Lindsay had no one to chime in on her behalf for that. When you have a bunch of people on your side, when you have like a bunch of people on your side, the benefit of having a bunch of people on, on your side is that you have more brains to think about like moments like this. And if it's just you, you may not have the capacity to think of all these moments. But the truth is this,

if you want to talk about something that was concocted inside your brain, it was Kyle melting down. The moment Amanda said, I was thinking about like figuring out some stuff for myself. And then he's like, you're going to leave me. You're going to get, you're going to leave me in the dust. It's like, I thought we were in this together. So it really is not fair for him to say that. And the other thing is that, like you said,

Lindsay, like, losing her mind on her boyfriends, you know, over something that she's whipped up in her head has been something she's been doing since season one. And it goes back to that same thing we've been saying all year. Carl knew who he was getting engaged to. And now he's suddenly, like, surprised. It doesn't just happen instantly.

Well, Carl does it too. Carl flips out and he gets that flash of anger in his eyes where his eyes just turn black and glaze over. You know, like, we've seen it happen to Carl a million times. Carl's just learned, Carl learns, you know? He reads the internet, he reads all the comments, and he tries to come back and change his personality,

not change his personality, but change what he shows of his personality. And it works. I mean, look how many people who are buying Carl's load of shit this season, you know? We've seen Carl lose his temper all the time. And that's the thing that makes me crazy, is they're a toxic couple.

They get together, they fight like crazy, they do it in front of other people, they ruin other people's time all the time. We've seen Carl and Lindsay date before this round when they tried dating the first time and he was a complete jackass to her. We saw that already. And so for everybody to pretend like none of that ever happened and Lindsay is just crazy when we've seen that side of Carl many, many times, it's just like the editing of history is what's making me nuts. And so Lindsay's like, you know what, Kyle,

I was drinking in that moment and I had emotions and what happens when I drink? And he goes, but there's a history of you drinking and becoming irate. Kyle, are you fucking kidding me? That's your entire fucking plot on this show is getting fucking hysterical pissing all over the place whipping your dick out and then raging at everybody and raging at your wife and acting like a complete

Jackass and then blaming the alcohol and crying the next day to make everybody forgive you you fucking man-child you hypocrite Yeah, and he says I'm not privy to all your fights But I'm telling you that if this is how they all go, I can see why they spiral because of delusion. I'm like, well, first of all, again, let's really not take away from the fact that Lindsay is a disaster and this has always been her thing, you know, but like, let's like, again, this is Carl, Carl, who, who prided himself on navigating Lindsay's abandonment issues really well, he says, but clearly he's not because she says he was ignoring me the entire time. She's clearly feeling abandoned in this moment.

And he's just like, whatever, whatever, whatever. It's fine. Like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're being crazy right now. It's it's, it's, there's just, they're just a disaster, obviously. So anyway, Lindsay's like, you know what, Kyle? I'm just gonna let you speak for me, Kyle. And he goes, well, I've known you for like 10 years. She goes, and I know you, Kyle.

She's just getting frustrated because he's just jumping in, he's not letting her talk, which is so obnoxious. Like, like, let, regardless of whose side you're on in this thing, like let them both just talk and have like, their time. It's not his, like you were right that she didn't jump into his and Amanda's bullshit, but he's there because Carl is too much of a fucking wuss to do anything and Carl has built it up to where he's such a victim

he can't even speak for himself. Right, that's the other thing. Kyle has to come in and save the poor other man from another horrific woman. At least his woman just admitted everything was her fault because she was depressed. When's Lindsay's moment to admit admitted everything was her fault because she was depressed. When's Lindsay's moment to admit

that everything is her fucking fault? And I can't stress enough how much the, how much Sierra and Paige are sitting there snickering at everything. Every time Kyle tells off Lindsay, they snicker and they laugh at each other and point at Lindsay. I mean, you guys are fucking assholes.

You guys are real fucking assholes. You're like children. And this is why people go on the internet and call you mean girls, because you act like this sometimes. You know, you get like this. It's gross to watch it. I'm an unabashed, I'm an unabashed Paige fan.

I even really like Kyle. We are so, we come down on Kyle so hard, but I actually really, really enjoy Kyle. But I think that Paige, in this moment, the way that she's like just laughing or whatever, I just think that she is being actually pretty obnoxious. And I didn't like that at all. So then Andy's like,

Carl, how did you feel about Lindsay? Crazy, crazy cuckoo Lindsay calling you cocaine Carl. Did you know about it before it aired? He's like, oh, well, I did not know that she called me cocaine Carl until it aired. And I know something was said, and I didn't know it being said, but like what I struggle with is that like,

saying like that, that's like, like that was a big problem for me. Like you've been so supportive of my journey. Like you hugged me so tight, so hard, harder. Harder, please, harder. I mean, it wasn't hard enough for Titan. I thought you'd try harder. How could you hug someone so tight

and then accuse me of being on a substance other than addicted to hugs that I'm in recovery from? That almost killed me. And I hope that you know that you accusing me of being on a substance can cause a relapse, and I've never been called Cocaine Carl my entire life. Now look, this is a moment where I do think Carl gets to have a monologue,

where he gets to go off about what an asshole she was, because she was an asshole. And this one, really, there's really no excuse. I will just say again, reiterate from the beginning, you are not allowed to blame a relapse on anybody else. That is all you. And if you are out there and you are thinking like this, stop it. Your sobriety is your fucking responsibility.

Man up and deal with it. And if you fail and you mess up, guess what? We all do, we all mess up, and it's okay. You're not a bad person. You're not a bad person for being an addict and you're not a bad person for relapsing and you're not a bad person. You're not, none of this makes you bad.

Drugs and alcohol are addictive. It's them, they're bad, but don't blame other people and you're not a bad person for relapsing, and you're not a bad person. None of this makes you bad. Drugs and alcohol are addictive. It's them, they're bad. But don't blame other people for you relapsing. Take responsibility for your own life. I have a question for you, Ronnie, and this is actually not like me challenging you, but I can imagine someone might ask this.

How do you reconcile saying, well, external factors can cause a depression in the case of Amanda with also then saying, well, you're in charge of your own sobriety, like external factors, like that shouldn't matter, it's on you. What do you mean how to rectify it? How do you reconcile?

Cause in one thing- Well, you can be depressed. I mean, something can cause you massive depression, but it doesn't give you. A lot of times what an addict will do is we will find a reason to use. So if you're depressed, for example, like I have a big problem with food and I also have a problem with depression. So for a long time, I would get really depressed and binge out like crazy for days and days. I would just hide in my house and binge like crazy.

I know this is TMI, but just so you know where I'm coming from. Sharing safe space. And when you get like, I kind of realized through talking, through therapy and talking to people about it, sometimes the depression, I wasn't even really depressed. Like if I started talking through why I was depressed or what was going on or what was happening,

it wasn't really that I was depressed. It's that I wanted to stay home and binge on food because I'm severely addicted to food. I'm a binge eater. And so it's almost like I'm finding an excuse. So if something would happen that was even minor I would kind of blow it up into this huge thing So I would have this reason to go back to my addiction

You know what I mean, and I'm not projecting that on to this situation. I'm not saying like my issues are these I'm saying that's a very typical thing in addiction to kind of do and to fall into that thing And so when you're in a fight with somebody or you break up with somebody or something very dramatic happens, it's very natural to say, well, I relapse, but I relapse because X happened, right? And in recovery, you have to learn you can't blame because ultimately you're the one who used the substance or you're the one who binged or you're the one who went on the bender. And you cannot ever fix yourself if you don't take the power of saying I'm the one who's hurting myself and so I'm the one who can fix myself and stop hurting myself.

Does that make sense? You have to take responsibility for hurting yourself, forgive yourself and then take the responsibility for fixing yourself. CB Okay. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying because I just felt like I think it's important to Thank you for clarifying, because I just felt like I think it's important to understand how those two different scenarios can coexist. Thank you for that. Right. You can be depressed, but it's how you deal with it. Are you going to be depressed and then go shoot up heroin or binge or get wasted?

Or are you going to be depressed and go for a run or find other positive ways? It's a bitch. Addiction's a bitch. And I think that we simplify it so much on these shows that it's like everybody's using substances on these shows, especially Summer House and Vanderpump Rules and stuff like that. And we get to the point where we glorify it

and we think it's hilarious. And oh my God, these people are so wasted in this scene. But then when somebody has a problem, we're like, oh my God, we will never talk about it again. We will never talk, they're working through it so we cannot talk about addiction anymore. We cannot talk about the good and the bad about it. You know, it's like either you're, we ignore it

and we glorify it and think it's hilarious, or we're like, uh-oh, that person has a problem. Never speak about it. And how do you get anywhere if you're like that? You know? Yeah. Well, anyway, Lindsay says, you know, she goes, she says like, first of all, I will say

it was completely wrong of me to question your sobriety after how hard you worked, so I'm sorry that I mentioned it to begin with, but I don't think it was wrong to question your behavior when it was a little aggressive and dismissive. So then Kyle's like, but that's the problem, it wasn't, we all witnessed it. And she's like, am I allowed to speak?

And he's like, no, there was no, no, end this ends with I'm sorry, end it with I'm sorry. Which I'm like, you know, I feel like when Lindsay was saying that, like here is like a moment where she like, like it's, I can't stand this. I can't stand when there's a moment where you can start to see what could be the beginning of like, like productive communication. And then someone

like a third party like Kyle jumps in like, say sorry, say sorry, say sorry. Like that's not productive. You're doing again, you're just going into semantics here. She really did just apologize. Well, I think he's right in the way that it's like, you were completely wrong on this. So you just need to say I'm sorry. And that's it. But Lindsay can't because she's still justifying it and saying, well, but I was just questioning your aggression. Right, but you were also wasted and you were on national TV and you, this was bad. You just need to say sorry, like a period. I mean, I agree.

But I want Carl to be the one to say that. It sucks that it's fucking Kyle jumping in on everything. That's the thing. Kyle's business and nothing's going to get resolved, you're right, because he just keeps jumping in on everything. I want Carl to be the one that responds and then gets her to a place where she realizes it really should just be like, I'm sorry, and that's it. But when Kyle does it, it's just a distraction,

and then it becomes a back and forth about are you gonna let me finish or whatever. It doesn't lead to anything useful. Yeah, so she's like, am I allowed to speak? So they just fight, and then Gabby throws her hands up because she goes, I would love for you to stop cutting me off. And then Gabby throws her hands up like,

well, guys, I tried with Lindsay. I'm getting kind of that vibe from Gabby now. I tried, but look at Lindsay. She just can't control herself. And this leads us when I'm getting. And so Kyle is like, I don't know why you'd come after Soraya like you did. There's not a world in which I can reason with that.

And she's like, Kyle, I'm his partner and I'm witnessing his behavior towards me. He goes, it doesn't pencil. It doesn't pencil. It doesn't pencil. This is basically like, Kyle, you don't get to own my emotions. Hey, everyone, this is the end of part one of this recap for part two. Keep an eye on your podcast feed. It is coming up in just a moment thanks so much for listening catch you on the second half watch what crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors ain't no thing like

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And if you do too, join us on our podcast, Morbid. It's a safe space to let your weirdo flag fly. On Morbid, we cover dark historical events, sinister science, unnerving paranormal events, and sordid high society murders. We also dive deep into the most notorious crimes in history. Our podcast is grounded in rigorous and painstaking research. We're also not afraid to read a bitch.

We keep it weird because a dash of snark is necessary to get through grotesque true tales of demented minds. So follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Morbid early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I'm Shimon Yai and I have a new podcast called The Competition. Every year, 50 high school senior girls compete in a massive scholarship competition. I wouldn't say I have an ego problem, but I'm extremely competitive. All of the competitors are used to being the best and the brightest,

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